Does Cohon have the cojones to stand up to Braley? [Archive]

ArgoRavi

07-13-2014, 12:00 AM

While I think he was doing his best to remain passive during his interview with Bob McCown several weeks ago it was clearly evident that the commissioner is not happy with the way the Argos are currently being run. The team seems to be run on what could be described as a shoestring budget. There is also speculation that Braley has been making the sale of the team difficult because of the asking price. If this is the case, does Cohon have the balls to stand up to Braley to ensure that what needs to get done gets done?

First of all, I do appreciate that Braley stepped up and saved the team back in 2010. However, it is time for him to let it go as he is killing the franchise through neglect at this point. As I said in another thread, the value of the Argos has to be falling with every home game and I just don't understand Braley's "endgame" at this point. I wish that the league could simply revoke the franchise and then sell it to MLSE but the only way the franchise can be revoked, from my understanding, is if Braley were to miss a payroll and I don't think he would do that. All Cohon and the other owners can do is try to apply pressure but Braley seems to be a stubborn man. I really wish that there was some kind of answer as the Argos will be lucky to draw over 20k for any home game this season.

AngeloV

07-13-2014, 12:00 AM

For the long time viability of the Argos in Toronto, I sure hope so. I have tweeted him tonight basically pleading with him to revoke the franchise and just give it to MLSE. Tonight's crowd seemed like a throwback to the Sherwood Schwartz days. But at least he had a lucky loonie lottery. No way in hell Braley gives some luck fan a chance to walk out with any of his money.

Wobbler

07-13-2014, 12:21 AM

I don't see any evidence that we're pinching pennies *on* the field, at least. We didn't hesitate to sign Anderson, and Farhan Lalji tweeted a reminder today that Ray is still rather expensive.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Ricky Ray had his contract reworked last week. Guarenteed 470k this season, incentives should get him over 500k. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Argos?src=hash">#Argos</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFL?src=hash">#CFL</a></p>— Farhan Lalji (@FarhanLaljiTSN) <a href="https://twitter.com/FarhanLaljiTSN/statuses/487819252821291008">July 12, 2014</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

AngeloV

07-13-2014, 12:30 AM

Will

07-13-2014, 12:38 AM

The problem the past few seasons has not been on-field, although this edition of the defense has be concerned.

BATKINSON001

07-13-2014, 12:21 PM

The problem the past few seasons has not been on-field, although this edition of the defense has be concerned.

I am worried about this as well. I hope tha cohon can take the team off Braleys' hands and they don't fold or anything dire as such.

Qman

07-13-2014, 12:40 PM

Keep in mind there is also a salary floor, so you can't really pinch pennies on player salaries.

I think some higher-end players like chad had it in their contract that they would get % increase by the amount the cap goes up, while others like ricky just had a handshake deal and had their contracts increase with the cap.

Gill The Thrill

07-13-2014, 01:14 PM

He's meeting payroll...hey, that's just a minor detail and unimportant to his commitment....try telling that to the players and their families.

You can't compare Braley to Schwartz...I don't see ridiculous tributes to Muhammad Ali, and Garth Drabinsky promotions with Tony Hawk fans all over the stadium...at least the money he's putting in is directly related to team expenses.

They need better commercials...those superhero radio commercials were a frigging embarrassment as far as I was concerned. Too condascending in how comical they were, and would make me wonder why I'd try supporting that team if I was not already a fan. Sell the league and it's players with a direct approach, not in a ridiculous parody approach.

OV Argo

07-13-2014, 04:01 PM

The answer to this question is NO.

Ron

07-13-2014, 05:18 PM

Hey lets revoke the franchise and give it to MLSE. The same MLSE who have said they won't own them playing out of Skydome. Let alone there are 8 other clubs that do not want to foot the bills Braley is paying right now.

But hey ... as ravi said ... thanks David for allowing us to even have a team to watch but time for you to took all your money and buzz off. The fans are not happy with the attendance. (even though every fan knew the attendance would be in this range)

Me thinks fans have to stop the panic and just watch it all transpire over the next 2 years ... because nobody won't know jack for that long anyway.

1argoholic

07-13-2014, 07:41 PM

Argo57

07-13-2014, 08:13 PM

If the team keeps getting run like this the long storied history of this franchise will be done. It's not like we have ten years to work something out. No one is stepping up to buy and build a new sweet Argo stadium. The team is getting left behind. I don't feel panic as much as just flat out sadness that it's come to this. Riding home on the GO with a train full of happy TFC fans shows that times are changing and the Argos are getting screwed over by their owner.

I had the exact same feeling on the Go heading to Burlington, heard some FC fans mentioning that last night was their 8th straight sellout crowd.
Like you Argoholic this team has meant so much to me since my childhood that I felt extreme sadness heading home, this franchise is very ill right now, hopefully something positive develops sooner than later, I think we all could use some good news!

BATKINSON001

07-13-2014, 08:34 PM

AngeloV

07-13-2014, 09:13 PM

I had the exact same feeling on the Go heading to Burlington, heard some FC fans mentioning that last night was their 8th straight sellout crowd.
Like you Argoholic this team has meant so much to me since my childhood that I felt extreme sadness heading home, this franchise is very ill right now, hopefully something positive develops sooner than later, I think we all could use some good news!

+1 on this.

The main reason for my ranting last night both on here and twitter was because I had a really sad feeling about the future of the Argos for the first time in my life. Personally, I have no problem with TFC getting good fan support. IMO, it just goes to show you what an MLSE owned Argos playing out of BMO can also do. Hopefully Braley doesn't allow the perception of the team to go so low, that nobody wants to own them.

argolio

07-13-2014, 11:02 PM

With Braley owning 2 teams and having a lot of pull on the board of governors, I imagine Cohon is between a rock and a hard place trying to deal with Braley.

ArgoRavi

07-13-2014, 11:38 PM

+1 on this.

The main reason for my ranting last night both on here and twitter was because I had a really sad feeling about the future of the Argos for the first time in my life. Personally, I have no problem with TFC getting good fan support. IMO, it just goes to show you what an MLSE owned Argos playing out of BMO can also do. Hopefully Braley doesn't allow the perception of the team to go so low, that nobody wants to own them.

+1 on this. Part of the problem for the Argos is the lack of media attention that they get with Rogers outlets largely ignoring them. Again, with MLSE ownership, I suspect that this would be rectified.

Gill The Thrill

07-14-2014, 05:02 AM

I noticed Rogers is advertising with the CFL again...so I don't know if that's really it. They have their logo on the field and have commercials during the game. I don't know if this was announced as much as their disassociation with Rogers was. With the Bills series being a bust and with many American groups coming out in support of buying the Bills and keeping them in Western New York, I could see interest in that wane big time as they look at refurbishing the dome for their baseball club.

As far as seeing TFC fans on the GO train....a sellout at their stadium is still a lousy crowd for a CFL game. I watched several seconds of that game and noticed a lot of the crowd disguised as empty seats, not as many as 16,000 in a 50,000 + dome but enough to notice on TV. So the corporate seats which MLSE is good for selling are sold, but it's not as if fans are clamouring to watch them....Nobody talks TFC soccer, (just like nobody talks CFL, in general in TO) but some do wear their gear as it's more accessible. I'm not a fan of the MLSE or of any form of monopolies, however they do know how to push product and brand even if that product or brand is not pulling it's weight on the field, ice or court.

When it comes to common fan notariety and what people talk about....there is generally 3 teams in this city, the Leafs, Blue Jays and Raptors in that order. Funny thing is that the Argos and the CFL on TV do much better than the NBA and MLS as far as ratings. Argo ratings on a good day compete very well with the Blue Jays whom are a strong 2nd to the Leafs in this city. I don't know how much longer they'll hold off the Raptors as the young kids love the Raptors and the shoe culture, and music culture (Drake) that come with it. But the CFL and the Argos still do much better than TFC and the MLS in general on TV. FC is on Sportsnet 360 half the time because of their low ratings. No way Rogers would put a TFC game ahead of a Blue Jay game on their main networks because of their low ratings...CFL ratings actually can compare to Blue Jay ratings, but TFC's are no way near Blue Jay ratings.

To answer the original question of this post...why would Cohon stand up to Braley? If he does, he's got a fire to put out and a lot of negative publicity that comes with it. Braley may not be building this franchise up, but what he is doing by paying all his bills and meeting payroll is buying the Argos and the CFL time in this marketplace...time to find a suitable owner and suitable stadium, who else was even stepping up to do that??

rdavies

07-14-2014, 05:47 AM

Braley may not be building this franchise up, but what he is doing by paying all his bills and meeting payroll is buying the Argos and the CFL time in this marketplace...time to find a suitable owner and suitable stadiumI believed that to be the case but we're beyond that now. We're starting to reach the tipping point and heading for no return. And it's not that anyone can use the case of an inept team or being booed off the field as an excuse.

Argo management, you have to get out there and give people hope before it's too late. Do something, anything!

Even if they are working feverishly behind the scenes towards a goal they are being derelict in their duties by not giving even a modicum of information to the fanbase. Wake up! WTF is wrong with you? You are killing this franchise!

I am not a chicken little type guy. I was one of the defenders of THF being able to host their opening game based on what the builders were saying. Evidently that turned out not to be true. I am seeing small chinks in the CFL armor happening this year and the league still isn't strong enough to let these things go without a course correction. And the Argos are drifting badly.

1argoholic

07-14-2014, 07:25 AM

No doubt that I tend to be a glass half empty type of person and if things work out then I'm thrilled and if they don't I don't feel as much pain. However when very positive people are felling and seeing the gloom in this situation then you know it's a real deal issue. So frustrating as fans when nothing seems to be getting done. Just reading everyone's posts on here has me feeling sick. I've talked to and e-mailed friends and everyone feels the same.

matthew

07-14-2014, 08:15 AM

Another element to this is that in its current state, good people with diplomas in sports marketing won't be interested in working for the Argos so consequently marketing efforts will be lacklustre.

1argoholic

07-14-2014, 11:04 AM

At this point any marketing would be a good thing.

Neely2005

07-14-2014, 06:45 PM

argolio

07-14-2014, 08:05 PM

The funny thing is that the Argonauts crush TFC in TV Ratings and the attendance is comparable but the Perception is that TFC is thriving and that the Argonauts are failing.If that continues, then sooner or later reality will match perception.

rdavies

07-14-2014, 08:28 PM

Another element to this is that in its current state, good people with diplomas in sports marketing won't be interested in working for the Argos so consequently marketing efforts will be lacklustre.As someone with a marketing diploma (in one of my many past lives) if you look hard enough and are smart enough you'll always find someone good enough and crazy enough to take on a challenge. ie The Canadian National soccer team men's coach is a former coach and technical director of Real Madrid and was a big contributor to the Spanish soccer philosophy. Maybe he's a has been, maybe not, but when you don't have the big bucks and there is no guarantee of success (ie SGE coaching England) then sometimes it's worth a risk.

Another way to go is someone who has been held hostage under the glass ceiling and is ready to breakout (ie an assistant coach under a great master who is never going anywhere until the master leaves... or dies :)) or sometimes the boy wonder who doesn't have the experience but reinvents the game. There is always somebody but if you play it safe...you'll get what you get.

rdavies

07-14-2014, 08:30 PM

What is up with those stupid giant emoticons, is there a way to turn them off (or down), aside from not using them.

Argo57

07-14-2014, 08:51 PM

The funny thing is that the Argonauts crush TFC in TV Ratings and the attendance is comparable but the Perception is that TFC is thriving and that the Argonauts are failing.

Aren't you the guy who started the thread yesterday regarding "the alarming drop in Argo attendance in 1 year" listing attendance this year vs last year??
Now you are claiming comparable attendance between the 2 organizations??

TFC attendance:
2014 average 22591 per game (103% of building capacity) a 25% increase in attendance from 2013!!!

Check your own thread, perception is in fact reality!!

Neely2005

07-14-2014, 08:59 PM

Aren't you the guy who started the thread yesterday regarding "the alarming drop in Argo attendance in 1 year" listing attendance this year vs last year??
Now you are claiming comparable attendance between the 2 organizations??

TFC attendance:
2014 average 22591 per game (103% of building capacity) a 25% increase in attendance from 2013!!!

Check your own thread, perception is in fact reality!!

And the TV Ratings?

Also the Argonauts have only played 2 Home Games so far this season so let's compare last season's complete numbers:

Toronto Argonauts 2013 Average Regular Season Rogers Centre Attendance: 21,926

http://argonauts.ca/schedule/year/2013/7

Toronto FC Average 2013 Regular Season BMO Field Attendance: 18,131

Toronto FC Average 2012 Regular Season Attendance: 18,155

http://mlsattendance.blogspot.ca/2013/10/2013-final-attendance-update.html?m=1

So like I said "Comparable Attendance".

rdavies

07-14-2014, 09:16 PM

Rod Pederson Blog (http://www.rodpedersen.com/2014/07/daytona-homes-monday-morning-goalie.html)
July 7, 2014

1 - THAT WOKE 'EM UP: Saturday's Roughrider game in Toronto was a heckuva lot of fun however unfortunately for the road team, they got embarrassed 48-15 evening both teams' records at 1-1. It was fun because it was a perfect day for football with a temperature up near 30 degrees and the Rogers Centre roof was open. The Argonauts have always put on a good game day presentation so that was a bonus, including a wonderful halftime show by country artist Brett Kissel.

...

4 - THE MONCTON ARGONAUTS: There are plenty more worthwhile things to argue about including the fact the CFL is fading into oblivion in Canada's largest city. Hooo boy, we could on and on about this for awhile. I'll try to keep it short.

The attendance at Rogers Centre on Saturday was 17,758 and while many Argo apologists referred to that as "not bad", it certainly wasn't good. And of course if it wasn't for the Rider Nation, there would have been less than 10,000 on hand. Music festivals, road construction, blah, blah, blah were all blamed for the low attendance.

At least the Argonauts didn't outdraw the Roughriders for their home-opener, however they were only 2,000 behind. That's a topic for another time.

So the evening before the game, I met a nice couple from Buffalo, NY in an Italian restaurant called Kit Kat. They saw my Grey Cup ring and started up a conversation. Of course, with Americans, those discussions always begin with Doug Flutie. Regardless, these folks - both Buffalo Bills season ticket holders - were up for the weekend and staying just a few blocks from Rogers Centre. However they had absolutely no idea the Argonauts were playing at home that weekend. When I told them the game details, they jumped on it. The cheapest tickets can be had for $37 while the most-expensive are $106. I'm not sure which they chose.

But the fact these tourists didn't even know there was a CFL game on during their stay is the quintessential example of dropping the ball. That's the essence of marketing; making people aware of your product. I learned that during my studies at the School of Hard Knocks. If you're a sports team and people don't know when you're playing at home, how are they supposed to come to your games?

Now, I don't blame the Argonauts marketing staff nor the Toronto media. The Argos threw their hands up in the air long ago when it comes to marketing their team. They won a Grey Cup and Torontonians still didn't care. TSN's Sportscentre had CFL stories running as the #2 item behind Wimbledon all weekend. If you didn't know the Argos were playing at home last weekend, you likely weren't paying attention.

And therefore, I blame Torontonians. Sunday was a slow day on Twitter so I fired up the notion, along with @FakeGainer, that the Argos should be moved to Moncton. Well that got people in Toronto all fired up, not the least of which are long-time Toronto football reporters Dan Ralph of the Canadian Press and Mike Hogan, the Voice of the Argos on TSN Radio.

Hogan wrote on Twitter, "Yep, move 'em. Should have moved the Riders there in the late 80's too. Smh". (Shake my head)

Of course we all know that's an Apples and Oranges discussion and I don't have it in me to argue with Hogan at my advanced age. We would have won that argument without even breaking a sweat but for now, we'll let it die. Comparing the Riders to the Argos is like comparing Jenny McCarthy to her cousin Melissa.

And that's exactly what's happening to the Toronto Argonauts. They're dying. The once proud franchise - the oldest pro football team in North America - is withering up like a weed right before our very eyes. You can blame the traffic or whatever you want all day long. However the Blue Jays, Raptors, Maple Leafs and Toronto FC all play downtown and nobody complains about going to those games. It's like people griping about Sask Place being on the outskirts of Saskatoon. Either you want to go, or you don't.

The Argos are sliding right off the page and within a few years they won't even have a place to play because they're being booted out of Rogers Centre.

However the feeling I got in Toronto over the weekend was a notion of, "What? Me Worry?" If the football people in that city aren't concerned, then why the hell should I be?

Argo57

07-14-2014, 09:20 PM

And the TV Ratings?

Also the Argonauts have only played 2 Home Games so far this season so let's compare last season's complete numbers:

Toronto Argonauts 2013 Average Regular Season Rogers Centre Attendance: 21,926

http://argonauts.ca/schedule/year/2013/7

Toronto FC Average 2013 Regular Season BMO Field Attendance: 18,131

Toronto FC Average 2012 Regular Season Attendance: 18,155

http://mlsattendance.blogspot.ca/2013/10/2013-final-attendance-update.html?m=1

So like I said "Comparable Attendance".

Don't remember anyone disputing the TV ratings.
Thanks again for making my point.
Argo 2013 Average attendance 21926 (Regular Season)
Argo 2014 Average attendance 16930 (Regular Season) 2 Game sampler

Toronto FC 2013 Average Attendance 18131 (Regular Season)
Toronto FC 2014 Average Attendance 22591 (Regular Season)

Looking at these numbers I can't figure out why people would think these 2 organizations are heading in opposite directions.

AngeloV

07-14-2014, 10:11 PM

The funny thing is that the Argonauts crush TFC in TV Ratings and the attendance is comparable but the Perception is that TFC is thriving and that the Argonauts are failing.

TFC has sold out 8 consecutive games. What makes you think that if the stadium was 30k, they still wouldn't be selling it out?

I can guarantee the Argos would prefer to be selling 25-30k and get smaller ratings. TV ratings are nice, but it really doesn't make the Argos enough money. Even with the increased TV deal, you need to average over 20k (actual paid tickets) to come close to breaking even.

Neely2005

07-14-2014, 11:03 PM

Don't remember anyone disputing the TV ratings.
Thanks again for making my point.
Argo 2013 Average attendance 21926 (Regular Season)
Argo 2014 Average attendance 16930 (Regular Season) 2 Game sampler

Toronto FC 2013 Average Attendance 18131 (Regular Season)
Toronto FC 2014 Average Attendance 22591 (Regular Season)

Looking at these numbers I can't figure out why people would think these 2 organizations are heading in opposite directions.

I said that the attendance is "Comparable" and it is.

As to the TV Ratings:

I was looking for the Raptors ratings and I found this:

"While the Raptors are showing promise, their soccer brethren aren't faring so well on television. In what has to be a major embarrassment, the team's game against Dallas on Saturday drew the interest of only 35,000 viewers to Sportsnet One.
Granted, Saturday night during the hockey playoffs is never good for ratings and Sportsnet One doesn't have the widest distribution. But 35,000 is the kind of audience you'd expect for lumberjack competitions. This is not what MLSE envisioned when it paid out all those millions for star players."

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/great-canadian-ratings-report-nhl-scores-big-raptors-230401936.html

Rich

07-15-2014, 12:48 AM

With Braley owning 2 teams and having a lot of pull on the board of governors, I imagine Cohon is between a rock and a hard place trying to deal with Braley.

There's got to be 7 other governors who are unhappy with the situation. Suddenly their big TV contract looks a little bit precarious with the future of the Argos in some doubt. Surely they are looking for a quick resolution instead of watching this agony drag out for another two years. They've got to find a way to buy Braley off and make the deal with MLSE sooner rather than later.

Mulder

07-16-2014, 04:56 PM

Seems he does

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>CFL commish Mark Cohon told me he met yesterday & today with Argos owner David Braley on plan to boost <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Argo?src=hash">#Argo</a> attendance. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFL?src=hash">#CFL</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Argos?src=hash">#Argos</a></p>— Curtis Rush (@CurtisGRush) <a href="https://twitter.com/CurtisGRush/statuses/489509595992555520">July 16, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Neely2005

07-16-2014, 06:31 PM

A proper football stadium with good sightlines for football. Preferably in York Region.

Invader

07-16-2014, 07:50 PM

A proper football stadium with good sightlines for football. Preferably in York Region.
Yep, the Argos will thrive once they relocate to a more intimate football stadium, like their Big-Four competitors in Ottawa, Montreal and Hamilton. Even MLSE, which is 37.5% owned by Rogers, won't touch the Argos until they are out of RC.

Argo

07-16-2014, 08:08 PM

A proper football stadium with good sightlines for football. Preferably in York Region.

I find the idea of the Argonauts residing (say) above Bloor St. and/or longitudinally offset unnatural and unpalatable. Nevertheless, the team's situation has again become chronically disturbing. Something, somehow, somewhere must give. So whatever it takes to cure the patient...

Qman

07-16-2014, 08:09 PM

Yep, the Argos will thrive once they relocate to a more intimate football stadium, like their Big-Four competitors in Ottawa, Montreal and Hamilton. Even MLSE, which is 37.5% owned by Rogers, won't touch the Argos until they are out of RC.

All cohon keeps saying is look "the ratings are 600-700k and are great, all we have to do is get these people in the stadium". And, as the Dave & Dave show pointed out their is a tons of interest.

The fans don't want to come downtown and fight traffic or transit.
its time to get a intimate stadium north of the city near the fans. With a small stadium, the fans are forced to by season tix if they want a seat. Argos can sell to all the SMEs in the 905 belt
Don't see BMO working for the same issues as the dome ... even its only 22000 between the goalines and fans are covered by roofs. Fans don't want to come downtown.

Ballstothewall

07-17-2014, 07:23 AM

http://www.ottawasun.com/2014/07/16/argonauts-off-field-foes-spell-trouble-for-franchise-and-league
Great story from the Sun, on the Argos troubles. I like the part about Rogers treating the Argos, like crap, but I know that can't be true, because some of you on here say Rogers is well balance towards the Argos/ CFL. Getting to the point, that the league may need to find a loophole in its constitution and take the team from Brailey if possible, even if highly unlikely, at least make some noise about it.

Aren't you the guy who started the thread yesterday regarding "the alarming drop in Argo attendance in 1 year" listing attendance this year vs last year??
Now you are claiming comparable attendance between the 2 organizations??

TFC attendance:
2014 average 22591 per game (103% of building capacity) a 25% increase in attendance from 2013!!!

Check your own thread, perception is in fact reality!!

Agreed, but perception is reality, do most people know that TFC officially did NOT sellout at BMO from I beleive is from 2009 through to 2013. Most people think from media reports that BMO is always sold out, far from true, until this year

1argoholic

07-17-2014, 07:40 AM

Great read and nice to see that someone has their eyes wide open and was willing to write about this.

Qman

07-17-2014, 12:33 PM

TFC has sold out 8 consecutive games. What makes you think that if the stadium was 30k, they still wouldn't be selling it out?

I can guarantee the Argos would prefer to be selling 25-30k and get smaller ratings. TV ratings are nice, but it really doesn't make the Argos enough money. Even with the increased TV deal, you need to average over 20k (actual paid tickets) to come close to breaking even.

It wasn't a sell out last night versus a whitecaps. My section 107 was only 60% full. So maybe 15,000-16000 there last night. Wednesday games are always half-75% full ... but no one reports its because MLSE always announces a sellout.

Neely2005

07-17-2014, 12:58 PM

It wasn't a sell out last night versus a whitecaps. My section 107 was only 60% full. So maybe 15,000-16000 there last night. Wednesday games are always half-75% full ... but no one reports its because MLSE always announces a sellout.

They probably announce Paid Attendance, most sports teams do this.

T-Bone

07-17-2014, 01:01 PM

I think he's now ready to stand up to Braley:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Not everyone can hold the axe. But <a href="https://twitter.com/canadiancommish">@canadiancommish</a> had the privilege! <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Homecoming?src=hash">#Homecoming</a> <a href="http://t.co/vKFSrLSJPi">pic.twitter.com/vKFSrLSJPi</a></p>— CFL Official Feed (@CFL) <a href="https://twitter.com/CFL/statuses/489812709102596096">July 17, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Neely2005

07-17-2014, 01:01 PM

http://www.ottawasun.com/2014/07/16/argonauts-off-field-foes-spell-trouble-for-franchise-and-league
Great story from the Sun, on the Argos troubles. I like the part about Rogers treating the Argos, like crap, but I know that can't be true, because some of you on here say Rogers is well balance towards the Argos/ CFL. Getting to the point, that the league may need to find a loophole in its constitution and take the team from Brailey if possible, even if highly unlikely, at least make some noise about it.

It was in the Toronto Sun too:

http://torontosun.com/2014/07/16/argonauts-off-field-foes-spell-trouble-for-franchise-and-league

It's definitely a must read for Argonauts fans.

I think he's now ready to stand up to Braley:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-cards="hidden" lang="en"><p>Not everyone can hold the axe. But <a href="https://twitter.com/canadiancommish">@canadiancommish</a> had the privilege! <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Homecoming?src=hash">#Homecoming</a> <a href="http://t.co/vKFSrLSJPi">pic.twitter.com/vKFSrLSJPi</a></p>— CFL Official Feed (@CFL) <a href="https://twitter.com/CFL/statuses/489812709102596096">July 17, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Lol, I think that he'd better bring Jason too.
:-)

Qman

07-17-2014, 11:49 PM

Braley can donate millions to Mac athletics ... but can't even put money into a new practice facility or stadium for Argos. Even after generating a $10m profit couple years ago.

Good news is practice facility will happen late august as leaked during preseason game

BATKINSON001

07-18-2014, 12:02 AM

Qman

07-18-2014, 01:05 AM

Who paid for the practice facility? Some one had to have, The city doesn't just give property away...

They are going to practice at the existing public CFL turf there.
Apparently, they are going to lease office & training space from the MLSE Kia facility, and eventually move onto one of the private KIA fields. So, i guess you could say MLSE is financing the facility.

Ron

07-19-2014, 03:10 AM

They are going to practice at the existing public CFL turf there.
Apparently, they are going to lease office & training space from the MLSE Kia facility, and eventually move onto one of the private KIA fields. So, i guess you could say MLSE is financing the facility.

Wink wink ... nudge nudge ... say no more .... say no more .... MLSE has no interest in the Argos.

1argoholic

07-27-2014, 12:40 AM

Braley resigned as Owner of The Argonauts in his mind and with his tight wallet. He's scum to me at this point.

T-Bone

07-27-2014, 09:49 AM

Braley resigned as Owner of The Argonauts in his mind and with his tight wallet. He's scum to me at this point.
You're entitled to your opinion but with out Braley you most likely would't have a team to complain about all over this board.

1argoholic

07-27-2014, 11:20 AM

That was then and this is now, so now I can complain. This board would be even more stale then it is without some bitching and complaining when things are going sour. Not everyone can be as positive as Ravi. Braley is seen in the same light as Harry Ornest in my eyes at this point. His pockets are so tight and deep when it comes to the Argos right now. Plus he has zero feelings or passion about them. Sell you old FOOL.

The board needs people who cut the bs and say what they feel. We need Fungi, Midnight and Foley's bro back. Life baby the forum needs more life!!!!!

Neely2005

07-27-2014, 12:36 PM

You're entitled to your opinion but with out Braley you most likely would't have a team to complain about all over this board.

Agreed. Without Braley the Argonauts probably don't exist today. He may not be the best owner but he's better than no owner.

AngeloV

07-27-2014, 01:11 PM

You're entitled to your opinion but with out Braley you most likely would't have a team to complain about all over this board.

I disagree. The league would be running the team in the same bare bones manner Braley has been. The league knows that without Toronto, they would lose plenty of national sponsors and TSN would not be paying the dollars they did in the TV deal.

paulwoods13

07-27-2014, 02:06 PM

I disagree. The league would be running the team in the same bare bones manner Braley has been. The league knows that without Toronto, they would lose plenty of national sponsors and TSN would not be paying the dollars they did in the TV deal.

But the league wouldn't have been able to do it for as many years as Braley has been the owner.

Someone tweeted out today something along the lines of, the very thing that is keeping us alive (Braley) is also the thing that is killing us. It's time for resolution on this issue. As I said two weeks ago, I sincerely hope Cohon is working feverishly behind the scenes to get the Argo ownership and stadium issues squared away. This is his greatest test as a commissioner, IMO.

FWIW, here are Arash Madani's tweets from last night:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>If you're a <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/BCLions?src=hash">#BCLions</a> fan, be grateful for the late Bob Ackles. He was the one who saved the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFL?src=hash">#CFL</a> in Vancouver. Waterboys, revival, all him.</p>— Arash Madani (@ArashMadani) <a href="https://twitter.com/ArashMadani/statuses/493262563673530368">July 27, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Coincidence that both Braley teams are in last place in each of the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFL?src=hash">#CFL</a> East and West divisions?</p>— Arash Madani (@ArashMadani) <a href="https://twitter.com/ArashMadani/statuses/493261084518645762">July 27, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>David Braley has enjoyed hosting three Grey Cup's in four years. How much of the financial windfall has gone back to improve his teams? <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFL?src=hash">#CFL</a></p>— Arash Madani (@ArashMadani) <a href="https://twitter.com/ArashMadani/statuses/493259466112921602">July 27, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>This isn't on Milanovich or Barker. This is on Mr. Braley, Mr. Rudge and Mr. Bedford. So, incredibly shameful. Paging Mr. Cohon. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFL?src=hash">#CFL</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Argos?src=hash">#Argos</a></p>— Arash Madani (@ArashMadani) <a href="https://twitter.com/ArashMadani/statuses/493258840872595456">July 27, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Five skilled guys down on offense. Business side of the front office regressed into bankruptcy mode. And the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Argos?src=hash">#Argos</a> are 1-4. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFL?src=hash">#CFL</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/40Boats?src=hash">#40Boats</a></p>— Arash Madani (@ArashMadani) <a href="https://twitter.com/ArashMadani/statuses/493258300528414721">July 27, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Makes me wonder if Beth W's departure was based on finances or on something else (like maybe insisting to her bosses that reporting on this situation is only going to get uglier if something isn't done soon to clarify the team's future). Either scenario is disturbing.

ArgoRavi

07-27-2014, 02:19 PM

Argo57

07-27-2014, 02:23 PM

Makes me wonder if Beth W's departure was based on finances or on something else (like maybe insisting to her bosses that reporting on this situation is only going to get uglier if something isn't done soon to clarify the team's future). Either scenario is disturbing.

Pretty well sums it up Paul.
How long before they lose anymore fan support, hopefully a new approach coming soon, this season completely dismal so far!!

paulwoods13

07-27-2014, 02:23 PM

And if something isn't done soon to let everyone know what's going to happen to resolve this situation, we will quickly be into a death watch in the media. Madani's tweets, and Lankof's story in the Sun last week, are just the forerunners. Wait until we draw another crowd of 6,000 on a Tuesday night, and then try to sell a second home game five days later (against two teams that are historically bad draws in Toronto). Then the media frenzy will be in full swing, and sadly it will be justified because the organization might very well be in (as Madani put it) "bankruptcy mode."

DanoT

07-27-2014, 03:20 PM

Isn't MLSE controlled by Rogers who are not friends of the CFL. Isn't MLSE teaming with Bon Jovi to try and buy the Bills and move them to Toronto, something that would kill the Argos.

AngeloV

07-27-2014, 03:22 PM

But the league wouldn't have been able to do it for as many years as Braley has been the owner.

Someone tweeted out today something along the lines of, the very thing that is keeping us alive (Braley) is also the thing that is killing us. It's time for resolution on this issue. As I said two weeks ago, I sincerely hope Cohon is working feverishly behind the scenes to get the Argo ownership and stadium issues squared away. This is his greatest test as a commissioner, IMO.

I don't know about that Paul. The league likely would have found someone else to own them by now, and if they gave a new ownership group in Toronto a Grey Cup every 5 years or so, I'm quite sure the 10M plus they make off that game will make any annual losses quite easier to take. There is no way in the world that a respected owner would do as little as Braley has to keep the team relevant.

I think that we all have been fooled into believing that Braley has lost a lot more money than he really has. All the Grey Cups he has had between his ownership in Toronto and B.C. have really cut into his "reported" losses.

As for Madani tweeting about Bobby Ackles being the one that saved the Lions, seems to me that I tweeted this numerous times during my rants after the last home game. He must be reading re-tweets from CFL daily or one of those other CFL social media groups. That's journalism at it's finest right there.

Isn't MLSE controlled by Rogers who are not friends of the CFL. Isn't MLSE teaming with Bon Jovi to try and buy the Bills and move them to Toronto, something that would kill the Argos.

Only 37.5% is Rogers. 37.5% is Bell which is a great friend of the league. The rest is Tanenbaum. If there is money to be made, they will have interest.

Argocister

07-27-2014, 03:37 PM

You have to prove to me Madanis tweets are worth anything. I know I am the supreme optimist but there have been other tweets of Madanis on various topics which are clearly conjecture and proved to be erroneous many times.
So, I take his comments with less than a grain of salt ..... Especially nice Sportsnet/Rogers helps pay his bills.

Just keep up the negative comments like this and you can dig your own grave ..... I'm not falling for it no matter how rosy my glasses are.

The Argos are a team that have talent and fans .... And I'm cheering for them

paulwoods13

07-27-2014, 03:43 PM

AngeloV

07-27-2014, 03:46 PM

Whether or not anyone trusts Madani is not the point. His tweets are only the beginning. The media pressure around this issue is going to intensify the longer there is no resolution, especially if crowds remain small. The the team needs a new owner and a new home, and until something is done about both of these needs, it is going to continue to appear to be sinking towards the bitter end. Get these issues resolved, and there is a rosy future. Leave them unsolved while attendance dwindles, and the rosy future starts to look darker.

Truth be told, I hope the media attention does intensify. It may be the kick in the pants the league and Braley need to realize there needs to be something done.

Argo57

07-27-2014, 04:01 PM

Whether or not anyone trusts Madani is not the point. His tweets are only the beginning. The media pressure around this issue is going to intensify the longer there is no resolution, especially if crowds remain small. The the team needs a new owner and a new home, and until something is done about both of these needs, it is going to continue to appear to be sinking towards the bitter end. Get these issues resolved, and there is a rosy future. Leave them unsolved while attendance dwindles, and the rosy future starts to look darker.

The Argonauts have been treated unfairly by the Toronto media for many years to say the least but sometimes this organization is its own worst enemy, as Angelo touched on blast away and all involved may get the message to put an end to this fiasco!!

Argo

07-27-2014, 04:58 PM

The Argonauts have been treated unfairly by the Toronto media for many years to say the least but sometimes this organization is its own worst enemy, as Angelo touched on blast away and all involved may get the message to put an end to this fiasco!!

Truly. If this deflating while in limbo situation somehow drags on through this season or (perish the thought) beyond, the Argos may be, or may as well be, toast. I say this as someone who has seen a significant amount of Toronto Argonauts woe over decades past.

ArgoRedneck

07-27-2014, 06:00 PM

Mulder

07-27-2014, 06:20 PM

FWIW, here are Arash Madani's tweets from last night:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>If you're a <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/BCLions?src=hash">#BCLions</a> fan, be grateful for the late Bob Ackles. He was the one who saved the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFL?src=hash">#CFL</a> in Vancouver. Waterboys, revival, all him.</p>— Arash Madani (@ArashMadani) <a href="https://twitter.com/ArashMadani/statuses/493262563673530368">July 27, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Coincidence that both Braley teams are in last place in each of the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFL?src=hash">#CFL</a> East and West divisions?</p>— Arash Madani (@ArashMadani) <a href="https://twitter.com/ArashMadani/statuses/493261084518645762">July 27, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>David Braley has enjoyed hosting three Grey Cup's in four years. How much of the financial windfall has gone back to improve his teams? <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFL?src=hash">#CFL</a></p>— Arash Madani (@ArashMadani) <a href="https://twitter.com/ArashMadani/statuses/493259466112921602">July 27, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>This isn't on Milanovich or Barker. This is on Mr. Braley, Mr. Rudge and Mr. Bedford. So, incredibly shameful. Paging Mr. Cohon. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFL?src=hash">#CFL</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Argos?src=hash">#Argos</a></p>— Arash Madani (@ArashMadani) <a href="https://twitter.com/ArashMadani/statuses/493258840872595456">July 27, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Five skilled guys down on offense. Business side of the front office regressed into bankruptcy mode. And the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Argos?src=hash">#Argos</a> are 1-4. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFL?src=hash">#CFL</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/40Boats?src=hash">#40Boats</a></p>— Arash Madani (@ArashMadani) <a href="https://twitter.com/ArashMadani/statuses/493258300528414721">July 27, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Makes me wonder if Beth W's departure was based on finances or on something else (like maybe insisting to her bosses that reporting on this situation is only going to get uglier if something isn't done soon to clarify the team's future). Either scenario is disturbing.

All Arash is a shit disturber. Take when he said with a grain of salt.

Where were these comments in 2012? With BC winning the division & Toronto winning the Grey Cup? 2013 with Toronto Winning the division and BC going to the playoffs?

Suddenly they show up when both teams are doing poor. Yeah. One just has to look at Arash's employer to find the agenda.

paulwoods13

07-27-2014, 06:57 PM

Where were these comments in 2012? With BC winning the division & Toronto winning the Grey Cup? 2013 with Toronto Winning the division and BC going to the playoffs?

Suddenly they show up when both teams are doing poor. Yeah. One just has to look at Arash's employer to find the agenda.

First of all, Madani's tweets last night are not about the Lions' current state. He's saying (as many others have said) that it was not David Braley who saved the Lions franchise as much as it was the guy he hired, Bob Ackles -- but he is saying it as context for the current Argo off-field woes, not as a comment on the current state of the Lions. The Lions' finances are irrelevant to this discussion.

In 2012 and 2013, the Argos were not facing eviction from their stadium, the owner hadn't stopped spending money (at least to the current extent) and the team hadn't just let go a front-office member who was largely responsible for ensuring media relations were positive in the face of great pressure among elements of the media to ignore or downgrade the CFL.

I'm not saying Madani is the definitive source of CFL info, and of course he works for Rogers. But anyone who thinks he's making stuff up simply to suit the Rogers agenda is ignoring the evidence of empty stands, low spending, a CEO who appears not to know the organization's plan to solve its ownership and stadium crisis, and a fan base whose most rabid members are becoming increasingly concerned about the future of the franchise.

ArgoRedneck

07-27-2014, 07:02 PM

All Arash is a shit disturber. Take when he said with a grain of salt.

Where were these comments in 2012? With BC winning the division & Toronto winning the Grey Cup? 2013 with Toronto Winning the division and BC going to the playoffs?

Suddenly they show up when both teams are doing poor. Yeah. One just has to look at Arash's employer to find the agenda.

And all the media is to fault for not saying anything about Blackberry and Nortel 2 years before they tanked??? Come on man. A Yes or No response. Are the Argos in trouble off the field? Yes or No. Don't let the media decide for you.

ArgoZ

07-27-2014, 07:19 PM

It is funny how things can change in such a short time. We were all on top of the world as recently as November of 2012 and the Argos, for one week at least, were the talk of Toronto. Even at the end of last season, I, and I believe others on here, felt very positive about the future of this team. At that point - November of 2013 - it looked like the team would soon be sold to MLSE, the team would move into a renovated BMO Field, and its future very much solidified. I still believe that these three things will happen but they really should have happened months ago. As a result, this is a franchise that seems to be completely in limbo.

I was going to post the exact thought. It seems like yesterday, the Argos were the toast of the town. 50 000 fans spilling onto front street after a Grey Cup win. It was so awesome! A lot of my friends and colleges were talking Argos to me because they knew I liked them. Great parade turnout, I could not believe how positive the city was. I was so happy how things have turned around, there was not a care to be had, everything was peachy.

Two short year later and we are talking deathbed again! WTF happened? It seems like a little big of negativity and things start to snowball for the worse, including the play on the field. A positive change to a new stadium hopefully will start a trend of increased sales, profile and winning ways again.

Argo57

07-27-2014, 07:31 PM

What happened after the 2012 Grey Cup victory and into that off season was exactly nothing. The team went silent and once again failed to capitalize on the buzz and good feelings after that dream season, missing an opportunity to put together some creative ticket packages and incentives to get people to the games, basically no merchandizing nothing, no effort!!
Always been my favorite team but they are infuriating the way they conduct themselves, act small time and you will be treated as such!

Mulder

07-27-2014, 08:53 PM

First of all, Madani's tweets last night are not about the Lions' current state. He's saying (as many others have said) that it was not David Braley who saved the Lions franchise as much as it was the guy he hired, Bob Ackles -- but he is saying it as context for the current Argo off-field woes, not as a comment on the current state of the Lions. The Lions' finances are irrelevant to this discussion.

In 2012 and 2013, the Argos were not facing eviction from their stadium, the owner hadn't stopped spending money (at least to the current extent) and the team hadn't just let go a front-office member who was largely responsible for ensuring media relations were positive in the face of great pressure among elements of the media to ignore or downgrade the CFL.

I'm not saying Madani is the definitive source of CFL info, and of course he works for Rogers. But anyone who thinks he's making stuff up simply to suit the Rogers agenda is ignoring the evidence of empty stands, low spending, a CEO who appears not to know the organization's plan to solve its ownership and stadium crisis, and a fan base whose most rabid members are becoming increasingly concerned about the future of the franchise.

Nothing about the Lions paul? I suggest you go back and read your own post posting his tweets.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Coincidence that both Braley teams are in last place in each of the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFL?src=hash">#CFL</a> East and West divisions?</p>— Arash Madani (@ArashMadani) <a href="https://twitter.com/ArashMadani/statuses/493261084518645762">July 27, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
He's directly attributing Braley owning B.C & the Argos as the reason why those teams are in last place in the division. Which is no difference than the previous 4 years when he owned both teams. And I was commenting as to the on field performance and not the off field issues.

rdavies

07-27-2014, 08:59 PM

Bobby Ackles has been gone for 6 years now. That's plenty of time to make accurate before and after comparisions.

paulwoods13

07-27-2014, 09:47 PM

Nothing about the Lions paul? I suggest you go back and read your own post posting his tweets.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Coincidence that both Braley teams are in last place in each of the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFL?src=hash">#CFL</a> East and West divisions?</p>— Arash Madani (@ArashMadani) <a href="https://twitter.com/ArashMadani/statuses/493261084518645762">July 27, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
He's directly attributing Braley owning B.C & the Argos as the reason why those teams are in last place in the division. Which is no difference than the previous 4 years when he owned both teams. And I was commenting as to the on field performance and not the off field issues.

That's fine, but who gives a damn about the Lions? I care about how the Argos are being run, and right now it appears they are being run into the ground.

Here's what really matters in Madani's tweets:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Five skilled guys down on offense. Business side of the front office regressed into bankruptcy mode. And the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Argos?src=hash">#Argos</a> are 1-4. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFL?src=hash">#CFL</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/40Boats?src=hash">#40Boats</a></p>— Arash Madani (@ArashMadani) <a href="https://twitter.com/ArashMadani/statuses/493258300528414721">July 27, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>This isn't on Milanovich or Barker. This is on Mr. Braley, Mr. Rudge and Mr. Bedford. So, incredibly shameful. Paging Mr. Cohon. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFL?src=hash">#CFL</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Argos?src=hash">#Argos</a></p>— Arash Madani (@ArashMadani) <a href="https://twitter.com/ArashMadani/statuses/493258840872595456">July 27, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Everything else is secondary to the suggestion that the team is being operated in bankruptcy mode, and that it is affecting the football operation. People are free to believe he is making that up because he is a Rogers employee. IMO the evidence suggests that there is truth in what he wrote.

Argocister

07-27-2014, 10:03 PM

.......... IMO the evidence suggests that there is truth in what he wrote.

Mmmmmm..... Coming from a science background, and I may just be totally naive..... But I do wonder what you consider as evidence. .... That they let go a long time employee? That Rudge says " I can't speak for Mr.Braley?" . That MLSE has postponed when the the BMO stadium will be ready for the Argos? I can think of many practical answers that are business related that responds to all of those events.
I'm sorry, but to me this is the grapevine or gossip feeding on its own, and TO loves its drama. Give me football, not drama thanks.

Invader

07-27-2014, 10:11 PM

Actually the Lions went through a couple decades of decline on and off the field, going bankrupt in 1996. Mr. Braley bought the team out of receivership in 1997, and the Lions have made the playoffs every year since. The Lions have played in the Division Final or Grey Cup, eight of the last ten seasons.

I doubt a sane person would regard the Lions as a losing franchise, despite not having their starting QB this season (who happens to be the highest paid player in the league)...unless you were a Rogers employee who gets paid to downgrade on the competition?

Pretty much the same thing with the Argos. Don't get drawn into this negative media spin. They're just trying to pull your chain, attacking the bedrock foundations of the CFL and their loyal fans. For what purpose, only they can say. But as fans all you can do is enjoy the games and tell your friends and neighbours, "there are plenty of good seats still available!"

paulwoods13

07-28-2014, 07:37 AM

Some folks apparently want to put their heads in the sand and fingers in their ears and convince themselves everything is just fine. (Some of these same folks were also adamant that the team had 11,000 season ticket holders.)

I see pitifully small crowds, an organization whose CEO appears to be out of touch with the owner about the somewhat important matters of whether or not the team will be sold and where it will play in three seasons, and statements by MLSE that it is renovating BMO without accommodating a CFL field, and I conclude that there is trouble afoot. If that makes me a victim of negative media spin or a drama queen, so be it.

Argocister

07-28-2014, 10:14 AM

Some folks apparently want to put their heads in the sand and fingers in their ears and convince themselves everything is just fine. (Some of these same folks were also adamant that the team had 11,000 season ticket holders.)

I can only respond personally, and I know you didn't mean just me, ....... I may be naive, my head is not in the sand, but life is not an easy ride and neither is Argos road and easy one in TO.... But I do believe they will progress and I want to give opinion to the other side of the coin. I also feel if all that is written on this forum is supporting negative comments in the media, then one is succumbing to authors opinion and interpretation of various comments.not good for the persona of the Argos

I see pitifully small crowds,
....... I do too, and admit that is a hurdle we need to overcome ...

....an organization whose CEO appears to be out of touch with the owner about the somewhat important matters of whether or not the team will be sold ......

.. To me, I see a CEO that has done a job. I remember Rudge said one of his first jobs was to find a buyer for the Argos. I think he has done that with building a relationship with MLSE. Now it is up to Braley to finish off any
negotiations. I think his MO of stating " I can't talk for Mr Braley" is proper. He can't talk for him and Braley has to finish the deal. ......
..and where it will play in three seasons, and statements by MLSE that it is renovating BMO without accommodating a CFL field, .....

.. MLSE states that they are still planning on making BMO compatible for the Argos. What I take from this is, they need an extra 30million to accomodate the Argos. So first is try and get 10 from each level of government. If not then let's buy time for the rest. If the Pan Am games were not on, I would suspect they wouldn't start the renovations until they had secured the monies first.

........ and I conclude that there is trouble afoot. ..... And I conclude that there are bumps in the road......

..If that makes me a victim of negative media spin or a drama queen,....

....victim of negative media spin , ..... Maybe..... But not a drama queen, I met you once to buy your book and don't think that suits you ....it's more the TO sports media and their tendency towards drama ....... so be it.

And just in case you thought I was long winded, because I replied within the quote, the forum deemed my message too short. Ha!

Wobbler

07-28-2014, 10:29 AM

Mmmmmm..... Coming from a science background, and I may just be totally naive..... But I do wonder what you consider as evidence. .... That they let go a long time employee? That Rudge says " I can't speak for Mr.Braley?" . That MLSE has postponed when the the BMO stadium will be ready for the Argos? I can think of many practical answers that are business related that responds to all of those events.
I'm sorry, but to me this is the grapevine or gossip feeding on its own, and TO loves its drama. Give me football, not drama thanks.
Are you arguing that there is no problem, or that you don't care and would prefer to just watch the game? If it's the latter then that's fine of course.

If it's the former, then as a fellow scientist I question your interpretation. There are plenty of data suggesting a serious and growing organizational problem. It has been stated (by people familiar with team finances, like the commissioner) that the team has been losing money for years. Our owner has expressed limited interest in the team and consistent rumors indicate that he wants to sell soon. The Argonauts don't have a playing facility for 2018+, and have limited options. Now, we have a dramatic drop in attendance and solid evidence (Madani is a good source, and the staff cuts are on the public record) that front office expenses are being cut, perhaps to offset the lost gate revenue. On top of all that the team is terrible right now, so attendance is likely to *stay* low. I don't agree with the "shame on Braley" nonsense and to call it a crisis would be premature, but we've got some serious problems.

Argocister

07-28-2014, 11:00 AM

Are you arguing that there is no problem, or that you don't care and would prefer to just watch the game? If it's the latter then that's fine of course.

I never said there was no problem .... I come on this site to learn more and discuss football. I don't think it is good on the forum to only engulf the negative aspects of the team. If you read the reply I made above you will see that I believe it is the rough road that the argos are on. I prefer more threads dedicated to the game and the players . I do not live in TO so I don't get to read all the articles in the local papers etc about the players and the game, but it seems we sometimes focus more on the ' drama' I believe the organization itself can influence the game.

If it's the former, then as a fellow scientist I question your interpretation. There are plenty of data suggesting a serious and growing organizational problem.

...... First off here, I have only been a major fan for the last 10 years or so.so in my limited involvement with the Argos, they have been on this losing money streak for all my time with the team. It is scary, but it seems as we are making some progress. It is a difficult market, not so much for gaining fans but for getting progress. We don't have the big money guys behind us... They want NFL.

It has been stated (by people familiar with team finances, like the commissioner) that the team has been losing money for years. Our owner has expressed limited interest in the team and consistent rumors indicate that he wants to sell soon.

..... That was Braleys intent all along. Buy the Argos save them for awhile but find a stable owner so that they don't have to go through the turnstile. Being around only the last number of years, that's fine and let's get onto the next stage. I don't have the history that many have on here, but right now that's life.

The Argonauts don't have a playing facility for 2018+, and have limited options. Now, we have a dramatic drop in attendance and solid evidence

See above reply to Paul

(Madani is a good source, ...... I have not been convinced that he is a good source.....I have my reasons ....

and the staff cuts are on the public record) that front office expenses are being cut,
...so I have heard about a staff member being cut .....has there been more? ....

perhaps to offset the lost gate revenue. ......now that's conjecture

On top of all that the team is terrible right now, so attendance is likely to *stay* low. I don't agree with the "shame on Braley" nonsense and to call it a crisis would be premature, but we've got some serious problems.

True about the team. And I hope the young receivers will click in sooner than later.

Braley is probably getting anxious to get the CFL stable. Braley is not getting any younger,and I'm sure he would like this stuff wrapped up so others don't have to do it for him. That would be worse.
He has helped out the Ticats....and after this stadium fiasco, they should be good. The Caretaker seems to have a good handle on the team and interest.
The Lions are relatively stable .... I think.
The Argos need to get over these hurdles.....Braley is just the money guy. To me he isn't interested in management. So I also don't go for the Shame on Braley comments.

I'm leaving this thread alone for awhile. As I mentioned before I'm more interested in football. I do believe a strong organization is needed but I also believe we are trekking there slowly and hopefully surely.

I'm excited to check out the new practice facility.....and to see how Scotty revamps the team. He's learning too... He had a nice ride up with Tressman prior to coming here.( I think there should be a Star Trek cartoon with Scott Milanovich being Scotty .... Good receiver? Beam him up Scotty)

Wobbler

07-28-2014, 12:23 PM

Argocister, please don't embed responses in the quote block. It makes your messages hard to read and respond to.

1argoholic

07-28-2014, 03:41 PM

As an almost 52 year old guy who's been a fan since the age of seven or so I've seen it all in Argoland but right now could be the worst I've witnessed. Last game there was nowhere near 16 thou at the dome. Our so called owner doesn't give a rats ass and is dragging his ass about selling. Why would a so called brilliant business man want to drive the team into the ground before selling?

We the fans just have to sit back and watch the boat sink slowly. Braley open up that yap and tell us something? Cohon? Anyone?
What the Hell already? Nice to be back in Ontario to witness this mess first hand.

argonaut11xx

07-28-2014, 07:35 PM

As an almost 52 year old guy who's been a fan since the age of seven or so I've seen it all in Argoland but right now could be the worst I've witnessed. Last game there was nowhere near 16 thou at the dome.

I think the darkest days were the Sherwood Schwartz era, while this season seems eerily similar in terms of attendance/fan interest , the new practice facility agreement does seem to make a potential new ownership deal more likely.

Somewhat worried about the "Bon Jovi/Tannenbaum" group still,they are scooping out locations in the GTA for a stadium, and the "out" is only 28 million in one of the final years of the bill's lease.

rdavies

07-28-2014, 08:16 PM

and the "out" is only 28 million in one of the final years of the bill's lease.Funny how I'm sure they would be able to come up with that, but need the feds to contribute 10 million now

ArgoRavi

07-28-2014, 09:33 PM

I think the darkest days were the Sherwood Schwartz era, while this season seems eerily similar in terms of attendance/fan interest , the new practice facility agreement does seem to make a potential new ownership deal more likely.

Somewhat worried about the "Bon Jovi/Tannenbaum" group still,they are scooping out locations in the GTA for a stadium, and the "out" is only 28 million in one of the final years of the bill's lease.

Reading John Kryk in the Toronto Sun, he believes that because the "out" doesn't happen until 2019 or 2020, it would make it difficult for the team to be sold to the Toronto group - assuming that they plan on moving it to the GTA - as that would mean five or six lame-duck years in Buffalo with dwindling crowds which would look very bad on the NFL. I really don't see that team leaving Buffalo, especially with a number of wealthy locals willing to buy and the keep the team there.

Funny how I'm sure they would be able to come up with that, but need the feds to contribute 10 million now

MLSE pays some of its players more than that. What bothers me is that kind of money is pocket change to MLSE and yet that is what is holding up the conversion of BMO Field to a stadium that can accommodate Canadian football. Making it contingent on taxpayer money does seem ridiculous to me.

AngeloV

07-28-2014, 09:40 PM

MLSE pays some of its players more than that. What bothers me is that kind of money is pocket change to MLSE and yet that is what is holding up the conversion of BMO Field to a stadium that can accommodate Canadian football. Making it contingent on taxpayer money does seem ridiculous to me.

I'm not overly upset with that. I guess they figure they'll pay the 10 million once they get the team for nothing. Why not just use the money that they won't give to Braley?

T-Bone

07-29-2014, 08:40 AM

I'm not overly upset with that. I guess they figure they'll pay the 10 million once they get the team for nothing. Why not just use the money that they won't give to Braley?
I agree that this is most likely a tactic by MLSE. It appears MLSE is willing to wait out the Argos lease at Rogers Centre since Braley is being stubborn about the sale of the team (If reports are true).

Ron

07-31-2014, 01:20 AM

Meh, I'll just wait until phase 3 of renovation when they get the 10 mil. Then the Argos move into BMO and Braley makes a buck selling the team to MLSE (who have stated numerous times they won't buy the team as a stand alone) . In the meantime Braley will recover some losses by being thrown another GC.

Anyhow. Months ago all I read on here was whinning that the Argos needed a real professional practice facility. Low and behold they get one with a strange "wink wink" partnership with MLSE.

So. Just enjoy the extra room at RC for Argo games. In a few years the Argos will be at BMO playing to capacity crowds ... but you will have already bought all the best seats in the house as you'll have little competition for best seat priority. Or just continue with a few more years of knee jerk reactions and hand wringing.

Neely2005

07-31-2014, 10:56 AM

Funny how I'm sure they would be able to come up with that, but need the feds to contribute 10 million now

No kidding. The question is can they come up with $2 Billion US? Apparently it's going to cost around $1 Billion US to buy the team and another $1 Billion to build a suitable NFL Stadium in Toronto.

ArgoRavi

07-31-2014, 12:53 PM

No kidding. The question is can they come up with $2 Billion US? Apparently it's going to cost around $1 Billion US to buy the team and another $1 Billion to build a suitable NFL Stadium in Toronto.

Reportedly, the Sabres' owner has bid at least $1.3 billion for the Bills and it is thought by John Kryk in the Sun at least that Bon Jovi and friends won't be able to match this. Even Trump might have bid more than Bon Jovi and friends and he said that he isn't going to overpay for the Bills. Bon Jovi is also getting a lot of bad press in New York State for being involved with a group that is seen as wanting to move the Bills out of Buffalo.

paulwoods13

07-31-2014, 12:59 PM

I think the Bon Jovi group has decided to make a strategic bid, too low to win but high enough to establish themselves as serious players if another franchise comes into play. There are at least three teams that have been discussed as possibly prepared to pull up stakes -- San Diego, St. Louis and Jacksonville -- so it's not inconceivable there will be an opportunity at some point to try to bring one to Toronto. However, the Bills may be able to block such a move since it is now firmly established that Toronto is part of its territory. In that regard Rogers' decision to create the Bills in Toronto series may ultimately prove to be a key factor in killing Toronto's chances for its own NFL team. (Of course there would be other factors such as lack of stadium, U.S. networks' lack of interest in the Cdn market, etc.)

DanoT

08-03-2014, 07:17 PM