July 26, 2014: Toronto Argonauts vs. Saskatchewan Roughriders

[T-Bone]

http://cfl.assets.mrx.ca/shared/sked_blocks_logos/2012_2/2012_schedule_default2/tor.png vs. http://cfl.assets.mrx.ca/shared/sked_blocks_logos/2012_2/2012_schedule_default2/ssk.png

Week 5
Saturday, July 26, 2014 at 10:00pm EDT.
Mosaic Stadium. Regina, SK.

TV: TSN (http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/feature/?id=508) - ESPN2 (http://cfl.ca/page/2014-us-broadcast-schedule)
Video Webcast: TSN Go (http://www.tsn.ca/go/) - WatchESPN (http://espn.go.com/watchespn/index/_/type/upcoming/sport/football/search/CFL/)
Radio: TOR: TSN 1050 (http://www.tsn.ca/toronto/feature/?id=43622) - SSK: CKRM 620 (http://www.620ckrm.com/sportscage-home)
Audio Webcast: TOR: Here (http://www.tsn.ca/toronto/listen/) - SSK: Here (http://www.620ckrm.com/listenlive.php)
Satellite Radio: SiriusXM (http://www.siriusxm.ca/sports-schedules/cfl/)

Depth Charts: TOR: Here (http://www.argonauts.ca/depthchart/list/team/7/year/2014) - SSK: Here (http://www.riderville.com/depthchart/list/team/4)

Pre-Game Preview: Here (http://argonauts.ca/video/index/id/99537)

Away Game Viewing: The Thirsty Fox 1028 Eglinton Ave W (https://www.facebook.com/events/1441848502763942/)

Post-Game Update: Argos Lose Big on the Road in Regina (http://www.argonauts.ca/article/recap-argos-lose-big-on-the-road-in-regina)

Final Score: 9-37

[Wobbler]

I'm very curious to see how we perform in this game!

We have a long (8d) week, so despite the fact that this is a road game we should have plenty of time to make whatever personnel changes Milanovich wants. Judging by his post-game anger, I'd say there will be a few - and some tough practices too.

I think the combination of a riot act-induced refocusing of/by our players and the fact that we matched up rather well with the Riders last time will lead to a positive outcome.

[Ron]

Argos tend to play well there lately. Hope it continues.

[gilthethrill]

I recall an injury riddled Argo team lead by Spurgeon Wynn before he got knocked silly on the final play of the 1st half, then Eric Crouch taking over in the 2nd half downing the Riders in Regina in 2005 I believe (Doug Flutie almost joined the team that night but changed his mind at the airport). Argos will surprise again.

[1argoholic]

Pretty sure Sask will want to get back at us and with our injury situation I think they will. I feel it will be one of those years where it's one step forward and two steps back for us. I really hope I'm wrong but I don't have a good feeling about this year.

I see Calgary winning it all.

[argotom]

All I can muster up now, boy are we going to be heavy underdogs!
Even with the Riders not playing well.

[argonaut11xx]

Im very nervous this season, for many reasons....far to much turnover since 2011...players..coaches..

As much as i like Tim Burke defenses, this year is scary

[Stevoman]

Don't feel very confident about this game but I felt the same way before week 2 and that one turned out well.

[QBall]

Our offense needs to get it's house in order. We can't rely on the defense to keep us in the game until the offense finally puts together a decent drive. We need Ray to connect with his receivers just like last year (I know it's not the same group of receivers but it's time for the receivers to step up).

[argolio]

We need Ray to connect with his receivers just like last yearBased on the Ottawa game, more like we need the receivers to complete the connection.

[Rich]

Based on the Ottawa game, more like we need the receivers to complete the connection.

If Ricky hadn't badly underthrown that end zone pass to Chiles in the 1st quarter, the complexion of the game may have been entirely different. Let's be honest, he's got room to improve too. There's more to great quarterbacking than a high completion percentage.

[ArgoRavi]

If Ricky hadn't badly underthrown that end zone pass to Chiles in the 1st quarter, the complexion of the game may have been entirely different. Let's be honest, he's got room to improve too. There's more to great quarterbacking than a high completion percentage.

In all fairness to Ray though, his bad throws are few and far between.

[1argoholic]

Ray is the least of our issues. Holy crap how can people be on him? We still lose on Sat as the skid will continue. TOO many changes will hurt us this year.

[argonaut11xx]

Ray is the least of our issues. Holy crap how can people be on him? We still lose on Sat as the skid will continue. TOO many changes will hurt us this year.

Me thinks that the gentleman's comment above kinda sum's up this season, and last season.

[Neely2005]

Ray is the least of our issues. Holy crap how can people be on him? We still lose on Sat as the skid will continue. TOO many changes will hurt us this year.

Agreed, our D needs to continue to improve and our current receivers need to step up.

[AngeloV]

If Ricky hadn't badly underthrown that end zone pass to Chiles in the 1st quarter, the complexion of the game may have been entirely different. Let's be honest, he's got room to improve too. There's more to great quarterbacking than a high completion percentage.

I think he made up for that on the next play, when a perfect throw was dropped by Adams.

[Argo57]

Our offense needs to get it's house in order. We can't rely on the defense to keep us in the game until the offense finally puts together a decent drive. We need Ray to connect with his receivers just like last year (I know it's not the same group of receivers but it's time for the receivers to step up).

Who'd have thought that we'd be commenting on how our D can't continue to carry the O a month or so ago.

[Argo]

This is an away game: that's a cause for optimism.

[ArgoRavi]

This is an away game: that's a cause for optimism.

Exactly. The Argos have played much better on the road than at home in recent years. Playing in hostile environments tends to bring the best out of this team.

[AngeloV]

This is an away game: that's a cause for optimism.

Are you forgetting they are 0-2 so far on the road...against teams that IMO have no business beating them.

[Argo]

Are you forgetting they are 0-2 so far on the road...against teams that IMO have no business beating them.

Yes, I guess I was.

[Ron]

Me thinks that the gentleman's comment above kinda sum's up this season, and last season.

He says that every year ... even when they win the Cup.

[Wobbler]

Depth chart notes (http://cfl.uploads.mrx.ca/league/pdf/en/depth/2014/2014_RegSeasonGame5atSskJuly26073257.pdf)

- Johnson returns as the "backup" RB, presumably because Slaton is hurt. I didn't notice any performance-based reasons to sit Slaton.
- Zander Robinson is back at FB/TE. I'm happy to see that.
- Mo Mann has been activated and is listed as our starter at WR. Chiles is also active, but listed as a SB. It's not yet clear whether JC healthy enough to actually play, though.
- Matt Sewell is our starting left tackle, and Mitchell has been activated as a backup. This is a nice opportunity for Sewell - I hope Ray survives it!
- No changes on D.

[gilthethrill]

Depth chart notes (http://cfl.uploads.mrx.ca/league/pdf/en/depth/2014/2014_RegSeasonGame5atSskJuly26073257.pdf)

- Johnson returns as the "backup" RB, presumably because Slaton is hurt. I didn't notice any performance-based reasons to sit Slaton.
- Zander Robinson is back at FB/TE. I'm happy to see that.
- Mo Mann has been activated and is listed as our starter at WR. Chiles is also active, but listed as a SB. It's not yet clear whether JC healthy enough to actually play, though.
- Matt Sewell is our starting left tackle, and Mitchell has been activated as a backup. This is a nice opportunity for Sewell - I hope Ray survives it!
- No changes on D.

I think Slaton hurt his hand. Too bad, he looked great catching passes in the flat last Friday. I am looking forward to see what Sewell can do against Foley.

[Wobbler]

Chris Getzlaf and former Argo Dominic Picard were apparently injured in practice this week (http://blogs.leaderpost.com/2014/07/25/riders-report-tgif-edition/) and won't play Saturday. It's possible that they might have some read/snap/protection issues as a result, but of course we have plenty of problems of our own...

[AngeloV]

Depth chart notes (http://cfl.uploads.mrx.ca/league/pdf/en/depth/2014/2014_RegSeasonGame5atSskJuly26073257.pdf)

- Johnson returns as the "backup" RB, presumably because Slaton is hurt. I didn't notice any performance-based reasons to sit Slaton.
- Zander Robinson is back at FB/TE. I'm happy to see that.
- Mo Mann has been activated and is listed as our starter at WR. Chiles is also active, but listed as a SB. It's not yet clear whether JC healthy enough to actually play, though.
- Matt Sewell is our starting left tackle, and Mitchell has been activated as a backup. This is a nice opportunity for Sewell - I hope Ray survives it!


- No changes on D.

If we can believe the posted depth chart, I count 9 starting Canadians (6 on O and 3 on D). Let's hope the rise to the occasion and perhaps start a future trend for the Boatmen.

[paulwoods13]

If we can believe the posted depth chart, I count 9 starting Canadians (6 on O and 3 on D). Let's hope the rise to the occasion and perhaps start a future trend for the Boatmen.

This is great -- shows we have a good pool of NATs, and gives the coaches lots of roster flexibility to interchange guys as needed.

[1argoholic]

Ron you just don't get it. When you expect nothing and it ends up that we win the Grey Cup it makes it that much sweeter. When you expect nothing and get that then you don't cry as much. haha.

[argolio]

If we can believe the posted depth chart, I count 9 starting Canadians (6 on O and 3 on D). Let's hope the rise to the occasion and perhaps start a future trend for the Boatmen.B.C. started 9 Canadians last night. Then Kevin Glenn happened, and that was that.

[gilthethrill]

I am going wear my vintage Holloway jersey tonight in favour of my Spencer Watt practice jersey....not sure if that will have any bearing on the outcome of the game though....my Argo room will be loud...sorry my pics did not show up, but AV can vouch that is does in fact exist.....GO ARGOS!!!!

[jerrym]

After the Argos' drubbing of Saskatchewan in what already seems like another era considering Argos subsequent play, the Riders and their rabid fans will be waiting like lions for the Christians in this one. This will be a real test of the Argo players' mettle.

[Wobbler]

If we can believe the posted depth chart, I count 9 starting Canadians (6 on O and 3 on D). Let's hope the rise to the occasion and perhaps start a future trend for the Boatmen.
Indeed. Each of those guys is either a legitimate starter or someone we projected as a future starter. We're in the process of finding out how realistic those projections were.

[AngeloV]

B.C. started 9 Canadians last night. Then Kevin Glenn happened, and that was that.

Very upset that someone else is picking on Kevin Glenn. I thought it was agreed that is MY responsibility.

:D

[Argo]

Kevin has had wonderful luck getting opportunities to play, and get paid well, after being relegated to perma-backup.


Very upset that someone else is picking on Kevin Glenn. I thought it was agreed that is MY responsibility.

:D

[Wobbler]

So... we're down two *more* receivers compared to last week. Chiles can't go, and Sinkfield wasn't on the 44. I assume that he's banged up as well, because it's not like we're in a position to pick and choose who runs routes these days!

[ArgoRavi]

So... we're down two *more* receivers compared to last week. Chiles can't go, and Sinkfield wasn't on the 44. I assume that he's banged up as well, because it's not like we're in a position to pick and choose who runs routes these days!

You are correct that Sinkfield is banged up as well. This is a great opportunity for the likes of Adams, Fayson, and Mann to step up.

[QBall]

Ray throws interception on first throw. Gonna be a long night.

[jerrym]

I said earlier this could be like the lions and the Christians. With Ray's interception and the Rider's TD the Rider fans just saw the first and second lion meals.

[argonaut11xx]

I said earlier this could be like the lions and the Christians. With Ray's interception and the Rider's TD the Rider fans just saw the first and second lion meals.

Good challenge by the Riders....its still early....but so far, not so good

[QBall]

Two turnovers on first two possessions. :ohno:

[Neely2005]

Why are coaches allowed to throw a challenge flag after seeing the replay on the big screen?

[gilthethrill]

Emery really misread that TD run by Will Ford.....

[jerrym]

Two Argo possessions, two Ray turnovers, two Rider TDs without the Riders passing or getting the ball on a punt or kick. How much more ugly can this get?

[QBall]

Interception! We finally catch a break!

[ArgoGabe22]

Spencer Watt just made a catch. Just wanted to point that out to those who may have missed it. :D

[QBall]

FG. At least we're on the board.

[jerrym]

At least the Argos aren't giving up without a fight (in more ways than one). We needed to score even if it was a FG.

[gilthethrill]

Did Rod just say MacMaster beat the Ottawa Redblacks?

[argonaut11xx]

Did Rod just say MacMaster beat the Ottawa Redblacks?

He sure did....

[jerrym]

After a disastrous start the Argos stop the Riders 3 times in a row. What a wild first quarter!

[argonaut11xx]

The Argo's seem to be settling in, which is a good thing...Sewell is getting picked on, but appears to be doing better play after play.

[gilthethrill]

Now our depleted offence goes into the wind....

[gilthethrill]

MLB Greg Jones is in the lineup on special teams

[ArgoFan1]

Argos need to run the ball more. Oh darn.... how many times have I ever said that?? Even that would be better than those sideline passes that go nowhere. I get so frustrated watching this "offence". Argos need to score at least one touchdown this half. Time to gamble and stop settling for field goals.

[Neely2005]

Pathetic. One step forward, two steps back.

[OV Argo]

MLB Greg Jones is in the lineup on special teams


He's been in some on D too. Emry is not impressing me, especially against the run this year.

[gilthethrill]

Who the heck is Dan DaPalma????

[Neely2005]

No defense, no offense. Not a good combination.

[gilthethrill]

He's been in some on D too. Emry is not impressing me, especially against the run this year.

I agree OV...Emry has not impressed.

[OV Argo]

Who the heck is Dan DaPalma????


Emry blows a tackle shot there too.

[gilthethrill]

Rider backups are out performing our backups by a large margin.

[OV Argo]

I agree OV...Emry has not impressed.

Sure love to see Cory Greenwood shake free from the NFL; also - give Tonye-Tonye a shot if he gets healthy (is he really injured or just stashed on the IR?)

[gilthethrill]

Sure love to see Cory Greenwood shake free from the NFL; also - give Tonye-Tonye a shot if he gets healthy (is he really injured or just stashed on the IR?)

I think Tonye Tonye is now on the PR....

[argonaut11xx]

Games like this are the reason God invented whisky

[Argo57]

Just back from an entertaining game in the Hammer to see some shoddy tackling by the Argos.
Rod Black seems to be enjoying this one a little too much.

[argosrule2415]

Only hope is if Durant implodes and starts throwing INTs but even that might not happen as he looked banged up to end the half. Bet the SSK back-up QB comes in and pummels us some more.

[jerrym]

I don't understand why after the Argos sacked Durant making it second and 14, they have a 3 man line with one extra player on the rush giving Durant all the steamboats he needs to complete a 35 yard pass to Smith, with a TD following on a short run on the next play. The Argos didn't have to send the house but more pressure on an obvious passing play would have been good.

[ArgoRavi]

Emry blows a tackle shot there too.

That was absolutely horrible. Wrap up the guy instead of trying to do whatever the hell Emry was trying to do there.


Rider backups are out performing our backups by a large margin.

Riders only have two key injuries - Getzlaf and Picard. The Argos have many more.

[paulwoods13]

Not many players deserving of praise right now. Ray (because he is doing his best with very little), Coombs, Sewell, Waters, Okpalaugo, Gabriel, Yurichuk, Steele are about it.

Lots of players deserving of criticism, including (in no particular order) Keeping (stupid penalty), Van Zeyl (missed blocks), Laing (stupid penalty), Carter (terrible coverage) and Emry (hasn't made a play all season). No doubt I've left several others off this list.

[ArgoRavi]

I don't understand why after the Argos sacked Durant making it second and 14, they have a 3 man line with one extra player on the rush giving Durant all the steamboats he needs to complete a 35 yard pass to Smith, with a TD following on a short run on the next play. The Argos didn't have to send the house but more pressure on an obvious passing play would have been good.

I agree with you. I would have sent more pressure there. They have been able to have success pressuring Durant so far tonight. Might as well take your chances and keep going after him.

[paulwoods13]

I agree with you. I would have sent more pressure there. They have been able to have success pressuring Durant so far tonight. Might as well take your chances and keep going after him.

Absolutely correct. That particular call was one of the most frustrating I've seen all season.

[Wobbler]

On D, we're not getting anything out of a four man rush. Our blitz has been pretty effective, though, yielding a couple of sacks and several throw-aways. I think we should bring one or two guys most of the time in the second half.

The O is clearly hurting; we're going to have to roll the dice and try a few bombs. I'd suggest that it is also time to pull a trick play out of the bag, but we probably don't have the personnel to execute anything fancy.

[jerrym]

The Argos need a Will Ford, 2013 East Division All-Star RB and returner, a lot more than the Riders do, yet he ends up a Rider.

[Argo57]

Not many players deserving of praise right now. Ray (because he is doing his best with very little), Coombs, Sewell, Waters, Okpalaugo, Gabriel, Yurichuk, Steele are about it.

Lots of players deserving of criticism, including (in no particular order) Keeping (stupid penalty), Van Zeyl (missed blocks), Laing (stupid penalty), Carter (terrible coverage) and Emry (hasn't made a play all season). No doubt I've left several others off this list.

So far Emry has been a huge disappointment to say the least, Robinson and Carter are a little suspect as well.
Hopefully Ray doesn't get killed out there tonight!!

[OV Argo]

The Argos need a Will Ford, 2013 East Division All-Star RB and returner, a lot more than the Riders do, yet he ends up a Rider.

Will Ford is a decent to average RB IMO; the Argos do not need him as Jeremiah Johnson, Slaton, Steele or even Coombs are just as good or better at tailback.

What the Argos need is wayyyyy sharper offensive thinking and play-calling from Millanovich & Brady; and sure the key injuries to the receiving corps hurts, but you need game-planning & play-calling smarts. No consistent ground game and no vertical passing game.

[jerrym]

With Owens, Durie, Barnes and Chiles injured and Inman in the NFL, the Argos are missing their top 5 receivers in yardage from 2013. It's sure showing tonight as is the inability of Sewell to protect Ray.

[Argo57]

Chick is giving Sewell a lesson tonight, hopefully our franchise player survives!!

[Gill The Thrill]

Not many players deserving of praise right now. Ray (because he is doing his best with very little), Coombs, Sewell, Waters, Okpalaugo, Gabriel, Yurichuk, Steele are about it.

Lots of players deserving of criticism, including (in no particular order) Keeping (stupid penalty), Van Zeyl (missed blocks), Laing (stupid penalty), Carter (terrible coverage) and Emry (hasn't made a play all season). No doubt I've left several others off this list.
Ricky Ray deserves as much criticism as anybody....what are you watching ? He has been responsible for 3 turnovers by himself and 2 in the first 2 series. An int and a fumble. He also badly overthrew Anthony Coombs in the end zone. His turnovers have given the Riders 17 Points. Criticize me all you want but Ray is looking like Kent Austin in 1995 or Mike Kerrigan in 1993. Both great pocket QB's but once there skills diminished, they were done.


Will Ford is a decent to average RB IMO; the Argos do not need him as Jeremiah Johnson, Slaton, Steele or even Coombs are just as good.

Keep convincing yourself of that if it makes you happy. Coombs and Slaton have not been around long enough so they could be as good eventually. Johnson and Steele are not as quick, elusive and therefore nowhere near as good. Johnson dropped one he should've had today and can't get outside. Steele has never showed consistency. What happened to Gerald Riggs Jr?

[QBall]

The worst part is where do we go from here? Except for punting/kicking everything else is such a shit show I'm not sure what Milanovich can do except maybe waiting for our injured receivers to come back and shake up the defense (release some players?). Thank God the rest of the east is equally as bad that we're not really losing pace with the first place.

[1argoholic]

Why even get into a RB debate as any top RB in this league would look just ok as an Argo? We don't use them anywhere near enough and Milanovich doesn't stay at all from his game plan. Keep feeding the ball to one guy and let our big boys run down field and knock some Rider heads. But no keep doing what's not working.
I saw this coming and I'm not at all surprised. Too many new faces on D, the coaching staff and now on O with all of our injuries. It's going to be a long tough year.
Hopefully Ray doesn't get killed. By the way I'm sick of Sask jumping offside and getting a shot at Ray. Plus their receivers are always offside with no flags. The league really knows how to kiss Rider arse.

We get stuck playing teams coming off the bye week. Then we have a very short bye. Screw this mess.

Oh and Braley you Blow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Wobbler]

Ricky Ray deserves as much criticism as anybody....what are you watching ?
Conventional wisdom suggests that deflected ball interceptions aren't the QB's fault. The fumble is on Ricky and he did miss a few easy throws, but it's foolish to suggest that he should be perfectly in sync with Coombs at this point. Considering that we fielded a rookie LT (pulled in the 4th quarter) and a dubious receiving corps, I'm not inclined to be particularly judgmental.

[Argo57]

Love the challenge flag with a huge lead and 5 minutes left, class move!!

[OV Argo]

Conventional wisdom suggests that deflected ball interceptions aren't the QB's fault. The fumble is on Ricky and he did miss a few easy throws, but it's foolish to suggest that he should be perfectly in sync with Coombs at this point. Considering that we fielded a rookie LT (pulled in the 4th quarter) and a dubious receiving corps, I'm not inclined to be particularly judgmental.

Big mistake IMO to expose a rookie OT in Sewell against 2 of the best DEs (Chick & Foley) in the league - but it certainly wasn't all on Sewell as the whole offence was useless and stupid.. Woulda made way more sense to move King back to OT, and play vet Smith at OG this game. Argos brain-trust looking kinda stoned/stunned this season IMO - coaching smarts are ultra critical in the game of football.

[Stevoman]

Injuries are definitely a factor but I am not impressed with our lack of depth. We have 1 touchdown in the last 2 games and you cannot accept that kind of drop off in performance. Tonights struggles seemed like the offensive line. Quarterbacks were hurried all night. Now I know that Molden is "injured" as is Matt Ware but I think they both need to be re-inserted into the lineup for another evaluation and when Matt Black gets healthy, Gabriel should stay at safety with Black in a new position. This defence has a long way to go before anyone should feel secure. Oh yeah, I dislike Rod Black's commentating, it makes for an even more painful viewing experience than the lopsided score.

[jerrym]

Not many players deserving of praise right now. Ray (because he is doing his best with very little), Coombs, Sewell, Waters, Okpalaugo, Gabriel, Yurichuk, Steele are about it.

Lots of players deserving of criticism, including (in no particular order) Keeping (stupid penalty), Van Zeyl (missed blocks), Laing (stupid penalty), Carter (terrible coverage) and Emry (hasn't made a play all season). No doubt I've left several others off this list.

I am not a Maurice Mann fan (to say the least), but I thought he played well and seemed to be always trying, something I could not always say about him.

I am surprised you put Sewell on the list of players deserving praise as Chick manhandled him, granted that Chick is one of the best players and this is Sewell's rookie season.


Will Ford is a decent to average RB IMO; the Argos do not need him as Jeremiah Johnson, Slaton, Steele or even Coombs are just as good or better at tailback.

What the Argos need is wayyyyy sharper offensive thinking and play-calling from Millanovich & Brady; and sure the key injuries to the receiving corps hurts, but you need game-planning & play-calling smarts. No consistent ground game and no vertical passing game.

Ford had 114 yards rushing including a 38 yard run and repeatedly showed his elusiveness. He also was a 1000+ yard returner last year. While Johnson, Slaton and Steele each have some skill they lack the speed of a Kackert or the power of a Boyd and therefore teams can afford to pin back their ears and go after Ray on every play without worrying much about an Argo RB breaking one because of this. A Ford, Kackert or Boyd type player would make them think about the running game even if the Argos were still predominantly a passing team.

[ArgoRavi]

With Owens, Durie, Barnes and Chiles injured and Inman in the NFL, the Argos are missing their top 5 receivers in yardage from 2013. It's sure showing tonight as is the inability of Sewell to protect Ray.

I hate using injuries as an excuse but take away any team's starting receiving corps (or at least 80% of it) at the same time and you are going to have problems winning football games. The offence right now has zero chemistry with all of the newcomers in the lineup. It doesn't help when even one of the replacements, Sinkfield, is also hurt. And let's not forget the injuries at tailback as well which has resulted in a carousel at that critical position.


Big mistake IMO to expose a rookie OT in Sewell against 2 of the best DEs (Chick & Foley) in the league - but it certainly wasn't all on Sewell as the whole offence was useless and stupid.. Woulda made way more sense to move King back to OT, and play vet Smith at OG this game. Argos brain-trust looking kinda stoned/stunned this season IMO - coaching smarts are ultra critical in the game of football.

OV, aren't you often critical of recent CIS grads not getting a chance to start right away? Now the Argos give Sewell that chance and you are all over them for that? Your scenario, btw, might have been one to consider. One reason I can think of them not doing so is that King has played right tackle but has never played left tackle and the footwork is different between those two positions.

[larz-7]

Injuries are definitely a factor but I am not impressed with our lack of depth. We have 1 touchdown in the last 2 games and you cannot accept that kind of drop off in performance. Tonights struggles seemed like the offensive line. Quarterbacks were hurried all night. Now I know that Molden is "injured" as is Matt Ware but I think they both need to be re-inserted into the lineup for another evaluation and when Matt Black gets healthy, Gabriel should stay at safety with Black in a new position. This defence has a long way to go before anyone should feel secure. Oh yeah, I dislike Rod Black's commentating, it makes for an even more painful viewing experience than the lopsided score.
Rod he is special. Had to laugh when they showed Anderson on the side lines shaking hands with some rider fans and Rod cherps in saying four argo fans made the trip to Regina .thats right Rod they flew all the way from Toronto to see the game and the first thing they did was buy rider jerseys and put them on.

[Argocister]

Yuk,yuk and double yuk!
My 2 cents ...... Oline needs help. Sewell was thrown in the deep end, but he will have to be in these situations in the future. Perhaps more coaching is needed.
Can't we run more north south rather than east west?
Some of our veterans are tackling like its a touch football game. So I'm glad we brought in DAnderson . He was all over the field tonight. Hopefully his passion rubs off on the rest.
I am worried that many on the team were copping out earlier than they should have. At least get a touchdown guys!

All I can say, it's the beginning of the season.... There are some good things happening on this team, if only we can capitalize on them ....what's that saying? It's insanity to keep doing the same things but hoping for a different result? .....I keep hearing its execution, but if execution isn't happening, then our goal of a W will not be achieved.
Hopefully, all our regulars will be back for the last half of the season. We need to place first or second .... I think there will be crossover this year the way the teams are playing.

[Wobbler]

Big mistake IMO to expose a rookie OT in Sewell against 2 of the best DEs (Chick & Foley) in the league - but it certainly wasn't all on Sewell as the whole offence was useless and stupid.. Woulda made way more sense to move King back to OT, and play vet Smith at OG this game. Argos brain-trust looking kinda stoned/stunned this season IMO - coaching smarts are ultra critical in the game of football.
I think the intent was to evaluate Sewell's progress and give him a chance to test himself against a good D, and I have no problem with that approach. He didn't have a great game, but when I noticed him I thought he was almost as effective as Van Zeyl (who had a sub-par game).

Personnel-wise, I think our offense is built around two essential concepts.

1) 80% passing (lots of money invested in a top-flight pocket passer, and an OL full of tackle-types specialized at pass defence)
2) Receivers who can get separation and turn short passes into intermediate yardage, creating secondary opportunities for backfield receivers and the occasional long ball

Essential concept #2 is completely broken right now, for obvious reasons. So, is our offense poorly conceived? Maybe. We've done our best to bring in players (Coombs) who *might* be able to keep things going, but Owens and Durie are quite exceptional players. They're also somewhat injury-prone, and starting to near the end of their careers. For 2014, they'll heal up in a few weeks, and suddenly our offense will make sense again. However, I doubt that our current concept is sustainable. I suspect that the 2016 Argo offense will feature significantly different personnel and philosophies.

[Nob]

Wow....lots to be miserable about tonight.

Why not move King back to LT? You can't put a raw rookie in there against Chick. If you do at least help him out by a)running the ball more, b) have the back or slot chip Chick every play, or c) line up a TE to help out.

Did nobody ever call out any of the Brackenridge blitzes?? Somebody needs to yell it out to the QB.

One td in the last three games.

Next week the Argos play their third team coming off of the bye week. Based on the last two results clearly having the bye week has helped.

I'm also confused by the roster they dress on game day. Why so many LB and so few DL? Wouldn't you want more DL to rotate them in, and keep them fresh? Why so many FB's??

It's tough for any of the receivers to step up when they are all new. It's easier to add one into a lineup and have him look good. Right now this group needs to jell. They need to find consistency. Tough to accept, but they need some time playing together.

Agree with the sentiments on Emry. Has really underwhelmed.

The RB situation is a mess. Nobody has looked good. Steele is the best of the lot, so far. Slaton could be, but one game is too small of a sample. Johnson does not impress me.

On the bright side - Waters is kicking great, and Harris looks like we won't miss Collaros.

It could be a long season, but they still have time to get it together in a really bad eastern division. But I still think that the Cats are the team to beat in the east and they found a bit of a groove tonight.

[Argocister]

I hate using injuries as an excuse but take away any team's starting receiving corps (or at least 80% of it) at the same time and you are going to have problems winning football games. .........

Unless you have Hufnagel as coach/GM.



I think the intent was to evaluate Sewell's progress and give him a chance to test himself against a good D, and I have no problem with that approach. He didn't have a great game, but when I noticed him I thought he was almost as effective as Van Zeyl (who had a sub-par game).

Personnel-wise, I think our offense is built around two essential concepts.

1) 80% passing (lots of money invested in a top-flight pocket passer, and an OL full of tackle-types specialized at pass defence)
2) Receivers who can get separation and turn short passes into intermediate yardage, creating secondary opportunities for backfield receivers and the occasional long ball

Essential concept #2 is completely broken right now, for obvious reasons. So, is our offense poorly conceived? Maybe. We've done our best to bring in players (Coombs) who *might* be able to keep things going, but Owens and Durie are quite exceptional players. They're also somewhat injury-prone, and starting to near the end of their careers. For 2014, they'll heal up in a few weeks, and suddenly our offense will make sense again. However, I doubt that our current concept is sustainable. I suspect that the 2016 Argo offense will feature significantly different personnel and philosophies.

This is the key ..... Sustainable. ... And I'm sure Milanovich and Barker are trying to work on this, but with major change on our coaching staff as well as our roster, I think this year it is very difficult to do.

As an aside, .... If these are the two key focus points of the offense, what is it for the Defense?

[Wobbler]

Well, this is the CFL: blowing up the offense every 2-3 years with new staff and players is par for the course.

For now, though, we've taken a chance by becoming hyper-reliant on Owens+Durie. We're screwed, short term.

[larz-7]

My two cents.Offense we are injured and will be for some time .The replacements we have can not do what this offense was designed to do ,short throws make something of it.Every defense we play knows that we will have receivers when the ball is snapped , walk out a yard or two waiting for the ball.Change the game plan abit just move everything up a few yards.Ray looks frustrated cant blame him.He needs a receiver to catch a deep ball here and then .Then he will be ok.that and a RB to just break one once.On defense i think we are a couple of players away from a not bad D considering the new bodies.So note to coaches and Gm. On offense this is not working adjust it. On D Barker keep locking for the missing pieces your mlb has lost a step too many

[Neely2005]

I turned the game off after the first half but in all my years of watching the CFL I've never seen a team struggle to score TDs as much as the Argonauts have in these past 3 games.1 TD total in 3 games in the CFL???

[1971GreyCup]

Apart from a run late in 2012 the Argos haven't progressed. I have heard for three years that the killer penalties will be addressed. Jim Barker may be near the end of his tenure here. Most frustrating to me is the constant upgrading of talent and deterioration of on the field product. Sheesh

Play/entertainment at home rarely is at the standard that brings back fans that come to check out the team. This is supposed to be entertainment and less "technical" football. Example the showman Leo Cahill.

[ArgoRedneck]

Any excuse is BS at this point of the year. Injuries are a easy scape goat. Why do i say that.......

They lost to an expansion team. With the number 1 rated player in the CFL at QB. I believe that with the backup QB playing last night they still would have been able to get 9 points. This team looks so unprepared by the coaching staff right now.

[paulwoods13]

I am surprised you put Sewell on the list of players deserving praise as Chick manhandled him, granted that Chick is one of the best players and this is Sewell's rookie season.

My observation was based on the first half, where I thought Sewell was (apart from one or two plays) pretty solid for a first-time starter. I gather he did not fare as well in the second half. (I did not stay up to watch as I had no expectation we could overcome a 22-point deficit with a bunch of unknown receivers; PVR'd it but may simply archive it and not bother to watch.)


Next week the Argos play their third team coming off of the bye week. Based on the last two results clearly having the bye week has helped.

I'm also confused by the roster they dress on game day. Why so many LB and so few DL? Wouldn't you want more DL to rotate them in, and keep them fresh? Why so many FB's??


The bye situation really sucks. Aside from Montreal, I believe we also get one more team (Winnipeg?) later this year after their bye week. And the Argos' upcoming "bye" is a half-bye -- they play 11 days after their previous game.

I also wondered why we dressed Gillanders once Robinson returned. Dressing a backup INT MLB may have been a message to Emry. Right now his signing is looking like a big, expensive mistake. Wonder if Mtl would like him back in a trade. I don't know if any of our INT d-linemen (other than Okpalaugo) are good enough. Gibson made one nice play. Harrell has been invisible and looks too small to be an effective DT.

[gilthethrill]

The bye situation really sucks. Aside from Montreal, I believe we also get one more team (Winnipeg?) later this year after their bye week. And the Argos' upcoming "bye" is a half-bye -- they play 11 days after their previous game.

I also wondered why we dressed Gillanders once Robinson returned. Dressing a backup INT MLB may have been a message to Emry. Right now his signing is looking like a big, expensive mistake. Wonder if Mtl would like him back in a trade. I don't know if any of our INT d-linemen (other than Okpalaugo) are good enough. Gibson made one nice play. Harrell has been invisible and looks too small to be an effective DT.

Milanovich has proven in the past he will cut a high profile player. Perhaps Emry gets shown the door. I am wondering when Kyle Moore will be healthy. I have not been impressed with Gibson this year at all. Maybe Marcus Thomas can add some girth in the middle if he gets healthy/in shape. I just don't see a Troy Smith led team beating us Friday night no matter how bad the Argos appear right now.

[Will]

I'll bet the Als fans are saying the same thing as you just said gilthethrill and I don't blame them.

I didn't see the game because I was hosting people, but have a few very general comments:

(i) It isn't a question of whether or not the Argos have any depth at receiver, but you've basically taken the group at the end of the year (Owens, Durie, Barnes, Inman, Chiles and Watt) and have introduced (due to injury and NFL) a whole new group there except for Chiles who has been ineffective this year and Watt who was the weak link of this group. I thought the team could weather Durie being out, but it's clear it cannot weather Barnes and Owens as well. Milanovich is going to have to find a way to get this to work because the team could be really screwed by the time those guys are ready to return. It seems the offense is unable to unwilling to adapt to the new reality. I mean 1 TD in 3 games is brutal and in that respect how long can we

(ii) The O-Line is really living off of that stretch at the end of 2012 isn't it? But, even consider the new bodies since then Sewell, King, Rogers, etc who weren't there and thus present a new variable.

(iii) The "bye week" thing is unfortunate and interesting, but ultimately I feel that's grasping for an excuse as to why this team struggles right now.

[paulwoods13]

Jeremy Lewis, who we cut, started at OT for the Ticats last night. Maybe we should have kept him over Rogers. BTW, is Rogers actually hurt? As far as I can tell we played one INT short last night -- there were just 20 listed on the depth chart and one (Chiles) did not dress.

There is no meaningful longterm data on team records after bye weeks because there hasn't been an uneven number of teams for eight years. This year teams are 2-2 after the bye, with the two wins both being blowouts against the Argos (Calgary and Sask). The two losers were Ott (which had a good first quarter after its bye but then collapsed) and Hamilton (which gave the Stamps a good battle before losing a squeaker).

[294life]

I'll bet the Als fans are saying the same thing as you just said gilthethrill and I don't blame them.



not this als fan. ;)

[1argoholic]

Someone once again mentioned issues with Rod Black. No friggin kidding and I'm so sick of this NFL kiss ass mentioning every player in every game that he calls who's was basically drafted by an NFL team. Hell even if some NFL flunky never saw the field. Why does he feel the need to kiss up? Teachers must have loved this brown noser when he was in school.

Sad to think that at this point Ottawa looks like a better team. WE are the worst team in the league after five games.

I do believe that a true two week bye helps teams teams who are coming off of it. Our bye coming up isn't even very long because we play our next game on a Tuesday. No real help for us.

[Argo57]

Any excuse is BS at this point of the year. Injuries are a easy scape goat. Why do i say that.......

They lost to an expansion team. With the number 1 rated player in the CFL at QB. I believe that with the backup QB playing last night they still would have been able to get 9 points. This team looks so unprepared by the coaching staff right now.

The Argonauts currently look no better than an expansion team right now.

[1argoholic]

Actually worse then an expansion team right now. Coaches, players and Barker have to share some blame right now. We have depth issues when your digging up Mo Mann who hasn't played in over a year. Thing is he looked fair last night.

[Argo57]

I think the intent was to evaluate Sewell's progress and give him a chance to test himself against a good D, and I have no problem with that approach. He didn't have a great game, but when I noticed him I thought he was almost as effective as Van Zeyl (who had a sub-par game).

Personnel-wise, I think our offense is built around two essential concepts.

1) 80% passing (lots of money invested in a top-flight pocket passer, and an OL full of tackle-types specialized at pass defence)
2) Receivers who can get separation and turn short passes into intermediate yardage, creating secondary opportunities for backfield receivers and the occasional long ball

Essential concept #2 is completely broken right now, for obvious reasons. So, is our offense poorly conceived? Maybe. We've done our best to bring in players (Coombs) who *might* be able to keep things going, but Owens and Durie are quite exceptional players. They're also somewhat injury-prone, and starting to near the end of their careers. For 2014, they'll heal up in a few weeks, and suddenly our offense will make sense again. However, I doubt that our current concept is sustainable. I suspect that the 2016 Argo offense will feature significantly different personnel and philosophies.

Wobbler your last points are very telling IMO.
Barkers inability to recruit top notch college talent to this franchise will kill us in a couple of years, especially if Ray starts to slide (which may already be happening) and your 2 best receivers (Owens and Durie) aren't with the club (either due to injury or retirement). Defence has been rebuilt 2 years running with almost no carry over in personnel which smacks of sub par talent evaluation and recruiting in the off season. The running back we have brought in are underwhelming for various reasons (talent and durability) yet as jerrym alluded to a back like Ford wasn't given a look. Another thing to consider, with our current clusterf*ck ownership and stadium situation players will look elsewhere to play rather than Toronto if given the choice.
I have been somewhat concerned with our head coaches demeanour the last couple of games, looks confused and defeated as did Brady and assistants in the booth. This organization is in an extremely bad spot right now and I suspect new ownership will clean house when they take over.

[Argo]

Good points and well-justified criticism from various posters.

This event was two CFL teams playing each other - not you and I forced into the ring with Lennox Lewis - so seeing yet another non-competitive, uninspired display is troublesome.

[Wobbler]

Wobbler your last points are very telling IMO.
Barkers inability to recruit top notch college talent to this franchise will kill us in a couple of years, especially if Ray starts to slide (which may already be happening) and your 2 best receivers (Owens and Durie) aren't with the club (either due to injury or retirement). Defence has been rebuilt 2 years running with almost no carry over in personnel which smacks of sub par talent evaluation and recruiting in the off season. The running back we have brought in are underwhelming for various reasons (talent and durability) yet as jerrym alluded to a back like Ford wasn't given a look. Another thing to consider, with our current clusterf*ck ownership and stadium situation players will look elsewhere to play rather than Toronto if given the choice.
I have been somewhat concerned with our head coaches demeanour the last couple of games, looks confused and defeated as did Brady and assistants in the booth. This organization is in an extremely bad spot right now and I suspect new ownership will clean house when they take over.
I don't think I agree with any of that. I don't see any evidence that we've been less successful recruiting than other teams, and I think our running backs are just fine. The reasons we can't run are that our line isn't built for it and Ray isn't a run threat. And as far as I can tell, our coaches look like most coaches do when things are going badly.

[Argo]

I think not bringing in Will Ford for a serious audition was certainly a mistake. He represents what would have been a very significant and dynamic upgrade to the running back that he could have replaced on the roster.

Statistics (including rushing average and kick-return performance): http://www.cfl.ca/roster/show/id/5445

[Argo57]

I don't think I agree with any of that. I don't see any evidence that we've been less successful recruiting than other teams, and I think our running backs are just fine. The reasons we can't run are that our line isn't built for it and Ray isn't a run threat. And as far as I can tell, our coaches look like most coaches do when things are going badly.

Sorry Wobbler
Teams that do a good job recruiting don't have to rebuild their team (particularly the D) year after year with no improvement.
If you in fact believe the Argonauts player development is on par with the other organizations then must have the worst coaching staff in the league!

[paulwoods13]

I don't think I agree with any of that. I don't see any evidence that we've been less successful recruiting than other teams, and I think our running backs are just fine. The reasons we can't run are that our line isn't built for it and Ray isn't a run threat. And as far as I can tell, our coaches look like most coaches do when things are going badly.

I'm basically in agreement with you, Wobbler. I don't think we should base our evaluation of Barker's success as a recruiter on one three-game stretch of bad football. I'm not happy with our defence to this point, especially the d-line and MLB, but it usually takes time for defences to gell, especially when they are filled with newbies and there are few established vets to show the way. It would be incredibly difficult for any organization to successfully and seamlessly replace its top five receivers, including two all-stars, especially in an offence where precision is paramount.

I do wonder, though, how much the uncertainty swirling around the team (attendance, ownership, Braley, MLSE, etc.) is affecting the coaches. Beth Waldman's sudden departure has to have affected members of the organization on a personal level, at least -- she was respected and liked by coaches, players, etc. Obviously any business requires that those remaining carry on when someone is let go, no matter how popular, but I get the feeling there is a lot of angst and maybe dissension in the ranks. I note how many times Chris Rudge has said to reporters, "I can't speak for Mr. Braley." Makes me wonder if even he, the CEO, doesn't know what Braley is doing or planning to do. Not to hijack this thread about a game, but at this point I think there is a link between the off-field mess and the current (hopefully temporary) on-field mess.


Milanovich has proven in the past he will cut a high profile player. Perhaps Emry gets shown the door.

Yes, but in the case of Cory Boyd (who tweeted out his farewell to Canada today, incidentally), SM was cutting a guy in a position that is relatively easy to fill. As a NAT who has proven capable of starting (in the past, at least), Emry is a much more valuable asset than an INT RB who refused to block for his QB. If he was cut, he'd have several offers to sign elsewhere. If we decide we're replacing him at MLB, we need to either get something in return or keep him on the roster and get some value out of him as a special teamer. Neither is a great solution -- obviously the best scenario is that he suddenly starts playing like the Shea Emry of 2012.

[ArgoRavi]

I'm basically in agreement with you, Wobbler. I don't think we should base our evaluation of Barker's success as a recruiter on one three-game stretch of bad football. I'm not happy with our defence to this point, especially the d-line and MLB, but it usually takes time for defences to gell, especially when they are filled with newbies and there are few established vets to show the way. It would be incredibly difficult for any organization to successfully and seamlessly replace its top five receivers, including two all-stars, especially in an offence where precision is paramount.

I do wonder, though, how much the uncertainty swirling around the team (attendance, ownership, Braley, MLSE, etc.) is affecting the coaches. Beth Waldman's sudden departure has to have affected members of the organization on a personal level, at least -- she was respected and liked by coaches, players, etc. Obviously any business requires that those remaining carry on when someone is let go, no matter how popular, but I get the feeling there is a lot of angst and maybe dissension in the ranks. I note how many times Chris Rudge has said to reporters, "I can't speak for Mr. Braley." Makes me wonder if even he, the CEO, doesn't know what Braley is doing or planning to do. Not to hijack this thread about a game, but at this point I think there is a link between the off-field mess and the current (hopefully temporary) on-field mess.

All excellent points, Paul. Regarding Rudge, there has been a rumour floating about - it was mentioned in one recent newspaper article - that Rudge and Braley are not getting along. I think that Rudge, like the rest of us, is frustrated with Braley holding up the sale of the team to MLSE.

Does anyone remember back to the off-season prior to the 2010 season when the Argos wanted to hire Milanovich as head coach? At that time Milanovich declined and one of the main reasons given was because of the uncertainty at the ownership level in Toronto. This ownership situation needs to be straightened out a.s.a.p. or this team could lose a lot of good people after this season.

[Argo57]

I'm basically in agreement with you, Wobbler. I don't think we should base our evaluation of Barker's success as a recruiter on one three-game stretch of bad football. I'm not happy with our defence to this point, especially the d-line and MLB, but it usually takes time for defences to gell, especially when they are filled with newbies and there are few established vets to show the way. It would be incredibly difficult for any organization to successfully and seamlessly replace its top five receivers, including two all-stars, especially in an offence where precision is paramount.

I do wonder, though, how much the uncertainty swirling around the team (attendance, ownership, Braley, MLSE, etc.) is affecting the coaches. Beth Waldman's sudden departure has to have affected members of the organization on a personal level, at least -- she was respected and liked by coaches, players, etc. Obviously any business requires that those remaining carry on when someone is let go, no matter how popular, but I get the feeling there is a lot of angst and maybe dissension in the ranks. I note how many times Chris Rudge has said to reporters, "I can't speak for Mr. Braley." Makes me wonder if even he, the CEO, doesn't know what Braley is doing or planning to do. Not to hijack this thread about a game, but at this point I think there is a link between the off-field mess and the current (hopefully temporary) on-field mess.

Defensive talent was an issue all of last year as well, some of that debacle also fell to Chris Jones but Barker is the man in charge and so far the D is not much better. We all get the injury issue on offence.
You are dead on regarding the organizational rot that currently exists within the Argos, moral must be at an all time low, problem is I still believe we have a really good young coach but how long does he want to hang around if things don't change above him, maybe we are seeing the reason so many good assistants and player personnel guys moved on to other teams.

[gilthethrill]

I think not bringing in Will Ford for a serious audition was certainly a mistake. He represents what would have been a very significant and dynamic upgrade to the running back that he could have replaced on the roster.

Statistics (including rushing average and kick-return performance): http://www.cfl.ca/roster/show/id/5445

With due respect to Will Ford (who we cut 3 years ago after a brief stay), he will not have a game like that the rest of the year. The Argos are down right now....really down and the Riders took full advantage of it.

[Argo57]

With due respect to Will Ford (who we cut 3 years ago after a brief stay), he will not have a game like that the rest of the year. The Argos are down right now....really down and the Riders took full advantage of it.

Hopefully what goes around comes around for the Riders!!

[paulwoods13]

No consistent ground game and no vertical passing game.

Can't argue either point, but the stats are rather interesting. Sask ran the ball only six times more than Tor (22 to 16), and threw only 19 passes (to Toronto's 47). Amazing that a team could win by 28 points while running off 22 fewer plays than the losing team.

[AngeloV]

You are dead on regarding the organizational rot that currently exists within the Argos, moral must be at an all time low, problem is I still believe we have a really good young coach but how long does he want to hang around if things don't change above him, maybe we are seeing the reason so many good assistants and player personnel guys moved on to other teams.

I agree 100%.

Overall, I'm not too down on the defence right now. Last night's score looks bad, but the Argos lost the field position battle big time. After the first drive and up until the last big run when the game was out of hand, I honestly didn't think they were bad against the run last night. Also got in Durant's face on a few occasions. The 2 short field TD drives to start a game is very difficult to rebound from, but I think the Argos D did so. Problem was that while they were shutting down the Riders, all our drives ended up in FG's.

Only really bad play IMO, was going with a 3 man rush, and bringing a 4th late on 2nd and 15. I don't have a problem doing that and playing zone, but when Durant hit Smith on the deep post to the 3 yard line, despite not rushing extra bodies, the secondary was playing man. You can see that on the cross between the slot and Smith, as the DB's each went with the guy they were covering. Almost as if the Argos were expecting the underneath route or screen pass and dropped the LB's but kept the secondary in man to man. Made no sense to me.

[Wobbler]

Sorry Wobbler
Teams that do a good job recruiting don't have to rebuild their team (particularly the D) year after year with no improvement.
Our new recruits certainly haven't been dazzling so far, but most of them have at least shown flashes. I really think it's just too soon to say.

As for the D rebuild, what choice did we have? Our coordinator and his staff left, and eight players retired or were lost to free agency.

[ArgoFan1]

Can't argue either point, but the stats are rather interesting. Sask ran the ball only six times more than Tor (22 to 16), and threw only 19 passes (to Toronto's 47). Amazing that a team could win by 28 points while running off 22 fewer plays than the losing team.

Not that amazing, when most of the Argo plays were 1 yard passes !! Ricky Ray can hit 100% of his passes every game, but if he isn't going up the field, what is the point??

[Stevoman]

Defensive talent was an issue all of last year as well, some of that debacle also fell to Chris Jones but Barker is the man in charge and so far the D is not much better. We all get the injury issue on offence.
You are dead on regarding the organizational rot that currently exists within the Argos, moral must be at an all time low, problem is I still believe we have a really good young coach but how long does he want to hang around if things don't change above him, maybe we are seeing the reason so many good assistants and player personnel guys moved on to other teams.

In 2013, I would say that the problem with the defence was Jone's ego got the better of him and he believed in his system so much that he believed he could replace many of the Grey Cup winning players. Too much change is not a good thing which is also the problem for this year although this year we didn't have as much of a choice. I agree that organizationally we don't look to be in a great place but as Rudge mentioned, a new stadium and this team could be in the black in 2 years. I too see a sale to MLSE as our only real option right now but I think the players for the most part are concentrating on football and aren't too affected by the potential distraction. Come the off season though, that's a different story and the lack of clarity could lead to an exodus of quality personnel.

[ArgoRedneck]

As I watch the CFL this year it looks to me that the Argos were almost a farm team for the rest of the league. Lots of ex Argos playing well. And the ex Argo coaches are doing really well. I look at the Argo staff on the sidelines and for lack of a better way to put it, are rejects from other teams??? I do not include coach "M" in that group though.

If the "timing is off" with Ray and the "new" recievers then sit him and keep him healthy until his go to guys are back (I don't buy into that BS though). Let the back up QB get 9 points.

Don't know how you all are with friends but its tough to be a Argo person right now. The saying "If you can't take a joke don't be a joke" is so true for me right now, cause I'm get'in lots of abuse.

[ArgoRavi]

IMO, football more than any other sport relies on continuity, chemistry, and cohesion among its players. It is difficult to evaluate Barker's recruits, especially on offence, when they have all been thrown into the fire at once. Guys like Coombs, Adams, Sinkfield, Fayson, Johnson, and Slaton may be excellent players but to throw them out there all at once as starters in a system that is new to most of them (Adams being somewhat of an exception) is putting them and the rest of the offence in a difficult situation. It would be one thing if the Argos only had to put one or two of them into the offence in spot duty but they are having to start and play a significant amount of time.

I have seen many times on here over the last couple of years much praise for Barker and Milanovich for what they have done with this team. The Argos won the Grey Cup - convincingly in the title game I might add - less than two years ago and were within one half of making it back last year. Yes, they are off to a slow start and, yes, injuries are not the only reason but I am willing to be patient and see if they can work themselves out of this. I really doubt that Barker and Milanovich suddenly became idiots overnight. Maybe we would all be wise to think back to the '08 and '09 seasons and recall a time at which the football operations were truly dysfunctional. Compare that to today and I think that you will see a huge difference.

[gilthethrill]

Don't the Argos have the most 1st year CFL players on their roster? How does that saying go about rookies costing teams wins? I was both happy but yet a little concerned so many of our draft picks made the opening day roster. Add in the fact we have several 1st year Americans especially on Defense along with the crazy amount of injuries to our receivers, it should not be too be of a surprise we are where we are at this point.

[paulwoods13]

Not that amazing, when most of the Argo plays were 1 yard passes !! Ricky Ray can hit 100% of his passes every game, but if he isn't going up the field, what is the point??

You don't pass the ball 47 times, and run off 63 offensive plays, without piling up a fair amount of yardage and first downs. For the record (excluding losses from sacks), the Argos accumulated 371 total yards for an average gain of 5.9 per play. The Riders accumulated 306 yards for an average gain of 7.5 yards per play. Passing-wise, the Argos averaged 6.4 yards per pass and 9.7 yards per completion; the Riders averaged 8.2 yards per pass and 17.2 yards per completion. The Riders made more big plays, benefited tremendously from Argo turnovers and scored in the red zone. The Argos failed to make large gains on most plays, and when they did, the drives stalled.

[Wobbler]

I do wonder, though, how much the uncertainty swirling around the team (attendance, ownership, Braley, MLSE, etc.) is affecting the coaches.
Well, it can't be helping. I'd like to believe that day-to-day coach-player interactions aren't affected by front office chaos, but I'm probably being naïve. On the other hand, the new clarity regarding proper practice facilities must be a significant relief for everyone involved - so maybe it's a wash.

[ArgoRavi]

Don't the Argos have the most 1st year CFL players on their roster? How does that saying go about rookies costing teams wins? I was both happy but yet a little concerned so many of our draft picks made the opening day roster. Add in the fact we have several 1st year Americans especially on Defense along with the crazy amount of injuries to our receivers, it should not be too be of a surprise we are where we are at this point.

This is why I have been perplexed by some criticism I have read on here of Barker's decision to bring Maurice Mann back. Some have said that this is a sign of poor recruiting when I think that it is simply a sign that the Argos desperately needed someone who knows the offensive system well and has chemistry with Ricky Ray.

[argotom]

Not that amazing, when most of the Argo plays were 1 yard passes !! Ricky Ray can hit 100% of his passes every game, but if he isn't going up the field, what is the point??


Exactly.
I am starting to wonder Ricky's ability or inability any longer to stretch the D as I can't remember if there were any throws mid range and the long attempts down field.
Whether it's the play calling or the line scheme not allowing RR time in the pocket, to me this has been the single biggest disappointment this season.
Dink and dunk mentality will not do it and it is a losing philosophy as the defenses have figured this out a long time ago.

[ArgoGabe22]

I'm not very impressed with our new D-Line yet. No one has stood out and I don't expect anyone to do so soon. Maybe Montreal will be a breakout game.

Durant didn't even play that well and had a lot of 3 and outs, it's just our offence couldn't get anything done afterwards and the turnovers early cost us big. There were chances where the momentum could have swung the Argos way and we could have been back in it 14-13 but sending out Waters each drive was frustrating to watch. As for Ricky, there were times he had no time and was rushed or got sacked. Obviously the chemistry he has with Owens and Barnes is a much bigger loss than expected.

[AngeloV]

Exactly.
I am starting to wonder Ricky's ability or inability any longer to stretch the D as I can't remember if there were any throws mid range and the long attempts down field.
Whether it's the play calling or the line scheme not allowing RR time in the pocket, to me this has been the single biggest disappointment this season.
Dink and dunk mentality will not do it and it is a losing philosophy as the defenses have figured this out a long time ago.

OMG, the sky is falling again.

You do realize that it takes time for a deep route to open up, correct? Ray throws the ball based on where his reads take him. If (and this will happen with new receivers) the receiver is not reading the open area quickly enough, he has to go to another receiver and hopes he makes a play. Nobody here was complaining when the timing on the short routes with Owens and Durie was perfect, allowing them the time to catch the ball in open space and run after the catch. Or how well Barnes finds the openings over the middle on a safety rotation.

Contrary to what many believe, that is not just the receiver making the QB stats look good. Timing has to be perfect all around, or no play will succeed.

[Argocister]

Interesting turn of events this year ..... Instead of Ray being out for 6 games, it's the receiving core being replaced with the back ups. Seems much easier to replace Ray with Collaros last year than replacing most of the receivers this year...not to say anything about determining which of the 3 RBs work the best.
I'm thinking for the offense, the next couple of games will show improvement of the group around Ricky. They talent is just there, and time should improve the chemistry.

As for the D, I hope the same can be said about them ..... That the chemistry will improve. The only question is, how much time will it take?


OMG, the sky is falling again.

.........

Milanovich says .... DONT PANIC! .......http://www.thestar.com/sports/argos/2014/07/27/argonauts_mystified_by_qb_rays_current_funk.html?u tm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[OV Argo]

I thought this Argo O was going to be very productive this season: based on Ray's amazing passing a lot of last year + what seemed like a talented / deep O-Line + receiving talent (loss of Inman, but still Owens, Durie, Barnes, Chiles, Bradwell, Watt) and OK at RB too (big loss in Kackert but Slaton, Johnson, Steele, plus rookie Coombs) = shoulda been a big strength of the team IMO... instead: Ray looking ordinary, O-Line iffy, big injury problems at receiver, and not enough ground game (all the above mentioned RBs are capable IMO - but they need way more carries/work) = not working so great at all and a problem that needs to be solved. Fixable ? - maybe not in the short term till Owens & Durie return, but why so much dependence on 2 guys and a dink & dunk passing game? Smart coaches know how to game plan with their available personnel plus to show diversity on offence, Millanovich & Brady looking not so sharp thus far, IMO.

And on D - i had hoped vet DC Burke could mold a good unit, even with so little experience; Emry seemed like a good vet addition, but the lack of CFL experience was a big concern to me; Barker & co. might like to believe you can just plug in a bunch of mostly new import "talent" , but IMO they are sadly mistaken about experience and some cohesion and vet smarts on D. I like Gabriel as safety, plus Okpalongo at DE and Laing is solid at DT, and ex-NFLer Molden looked like a CFL star in the making; but after that ... a lot of average to weak play - poor tackling and not enough D play-making; Emry and Horton have been disappointing = not sure if this D is fixable this season.

Not looking good, but the season is still young and I don't see any real powerhouse CFL team this season = some sort of consolation there i guess. Argos should still easily be able to take 1st in the East; the next game against an Als team with zip-o at QB should be a big indicator.

[argonaut11xx]

Guess what???...

The Argo's are TIED for FIRST place in the East, with 14 games left.....

This team isn't BROKEN, its just injured, and its still better than MTL, Ottawa, and Hamilton

[1argoholic]

We've lost one more game then the rest. So we are in last really.

[MEEZY]

A few points:

1) Milanovich seems to consistently struggle with controlling penalties. This has been a problem since his inception as a coach in 2012. I'm not sure of the solution...
2) A higher percentage of running plays need to be integrated into the offense, especially at the beginning of games. With the top 3-4 receivers missing, the run game is even more important, giving time for the new receivers to learn the offense.
3) The O-line really seems to be struggling this year. Perhaps its due to the lack of a run game.
4) A handful of posters on here are consistently critical of Ricky Ray, even when it's not his fault. Without naming names or directly addressing these individuals, I think they need to consider that he doesn't exactly have a lot to work with. The fact that he consistently posts reasonable to strong statistical numbers tells me that the problem lies elsewhere, namely in the lack of first-string receivers and the poor protection that he receives.
5) Strong teams can overcome injuries. I think the problem or problems with this team lies elsewhere.
6) Not sure why Barker consistently revamps the entire defensive unit year after year.

[Rich]

A few points:

1) Milanovich seems to consistently struggle with controlling penalties. This has been a problem since his inception as a coach in 2012. I'm not sure of the solution...
2) A higher percentage of running plays need to be integrated into the offense, especially at the beginning of games. With the top 3-4 receivers missing, the run game is even more important, giving time for the new receivers to learn the offense.
3) The O-line really seems to be struggling this year. Perhaps its due to the lack of a run game.
4) A handful of posters on here are consistently critical of Ricky Ray, even when it's not his fault. Without naming names or directly addressing these individuals, I think they need to consider that he doesn't exactly have a lot to work with. The fact that he consistently posts reasonable to strong statistical numbers tells me that the problem lies elsewhere, namely in the lack of first-string receivers and the poor protection that he receives.
5) Strong teams can overcome injuries. I think the problem or problems with this team lies elsewhere.
6) Not sure why Barker consistently revamps the entire defensive unit year after year.

Without naming names, points 4 and 5 directly contradict each other.

[MEEZY]

Without naming names, points 4 and 5 directly contradict each other.

Not really. I was listing all of the problems facing the team this year. My point for #5 was that while injuries represent a major obstacle, there are other factors impeding the team. Ray isn't one of those factors, but some people on this forum, yourself among them as you aptly recognized, likes to lay the blame in the direction that it least deserves. If you read the rest of the points, you will see them all clearly explained.

[Gill The Thrill]

I think people on here don't look at each game as its' own entity and view the carears work of a player. I understand that kind of blindness to some extent but in sports, it's always what have you done for me lately.

Ricky Ray has had a fine carear, but he has not displayed the leadership to support the young and inexperienced players on this team and deserves some blame...not all but some. He should definitely not go unscathed when he ridiculously throws an interception on his first pass and has more interceptions this year than all of last season already....Yes, I know, the receivers are hurt and their playing novices there.

If that's the case then as a veteran QB, he should go up to his idiot coach (he's probably paid more) and tell him...we can't stretch the D today because we have not had enough reps with these guys in practice...Run the friggin ball. Yet he still tries to force passes to his inexperienced receivers against one of the toughest Defenses in the league especially at Mosaic and wonders why it's not working.

The Ticats also started 2 rookie O-lineman, including a LT I believe, with Dan Lefeveur at QB and they did better...why?...because Austin has a vision and has not just built a team around 2-3 players using the same 5 plays if even. He's put package schemes together to suit the skills of the players on the team playing on that specific day. He does not do what the Argo staff does...try to stick a round peg in a square hole by having players play out of position and build a game plan that does not suit their strengths.

The Argos are nowhere near the team the Ticats are...sure they started 0-3, but you could objectively notice, based on 2 of those 3 losses in Edmonton and Calgary, and with their first win that they are about to go on a roll and will win this division quite easily...possibly with 11 wins. Remember they started 1-4 last season also. Yet, people on here are buying Milanovich's Kool-Aid, sure the Argos are a half game behind Hamilton, but in reality, when you look at how both teams have played, Hamilton has been a lot more competitive and are getting better...the Argos are not...they've continued where they'd left off in the 2nd half of that Eastern Final last year with poor tackling, an incapability of stopping the run, with no answers on offence (no scoring) and poor play calling and coaching decisions. (Remember the penalty the Argos took that gave the Cats another 2nd down and long when they would have punted had they declined, we've seen more of that stupidity this year with the play calling)

Argoholic said it earlier and I posted it last week after the Redblacks game, the Argos are the worst team in the league right now...Between the Argos offence and Montreal's offence I figure 14 pts may be enough to win on Friday. (unless the defenses make this a high scoring game by returning INT's, which is a possibility)

[OV Argo]

I think people on here don't look at each game as its' own entity and view the carears work of a player. I understand that kind of blindness to some extent but in sports, it's always what have you done for me lately.

Ricky Ray has had a fine carear, but he has not displayed the leadership to support the young and inexperienced players on this team and deserves some blame...not all but some. He should definitely not go unscathed when he ridiculously throws an interception on his first pass and has more interceptions this year than all of last season already....Yes, I know, the receivers are hurt and their playing novices there.

If that's the case then as a veteran QB, he should go up to his idiot coach (he's probably paid more) and tell him...we can't stretch the D today because we have not had enough reps with these guys in practice...Run the friggin ball. Yet he still tries to force passes to his inexperienced receivers against one of the toughest Defenses in the league especially at Mosaic and wonders why it's not working.

The Ticats also started 2 rookie O-lineman, including a LT I believe, with Dan Lefeveur at QB and they did better...why?...because Austin has a vision and has not just built a team around 2-3 players using the same 5 plays if even. He's put package schemes together to suit the skills of the players on the team playing on that specific day. He does not do what the Argo staff does...try to stick a round peg in a square hole by having players play out of position and build a game plan that does not suit their strengths.

The Argos are nowhere near the team the Ticats are...sure they started 0-3, but you could objectively notice, based on 2 of those 3 losses in Edmonton and Calgary, and with their first win that they are about to go on a roll and will win this division quite easily...possibly with 11 wins. Remember they started 1-4 last season also. Yet, people on here are buying Milanovich's Kool-Aid, sure the Argos are a half game behind Hamilton, but in reality, when you look at how both teams have played, Hamilton has been a lot more competitive and are getting better...the Argos are not...they've continued where they'd left off in the 2nd half of that Eastern Final last year with poor tackling, an incapability of stopping the run, with no answers on offence (no scoring) and poor play calling and coaching decisions. (Remember the penalty the Argos took that gave the Cats another 2nd down and long when they would have punted had they declined, we've seen more of that stupidity this year with the play calling)

Argoholic said it earlier and I posted it last week after the Redblacks game, the Argos are the worst team in the league right now...Between the Argos offence and Montreal's offence I figure 14 pts may be enough to win on Friday. (unless the defenses make this a high scoring game by returning INT's, which is a possibility)


WOW Gill - you really think the Ticats are a good team who will the win the East easily ? Sorry, can't agree: they ain't that good: inexperience at QB (though I like LeFevour and feel he may be better than Collaros (who could still come back strong this season); iffy & inexperienced O-Line (return of vet Dyakowski should help later in the season though); average at RB (Gable is big-time over-rated IMO - has some moves & skills but not a solid between the tackles RB - and they have zero faith in a run game anyways); and a sub-par receiving corps (Fantuz the only thing close to a #1 type CFL receiver there). And I don't think much of Austin as a smart game-planning coach - he's more like same old basic 5 pack offence and he does not have the personnel to run that successfully - they are not putting up points this season without Hank.

And on D - I like some of their talent (especially some solid NI D players), but they aren't exactly a veteran, tough unit.

The East is going to be real weak this year IMO (maybe because the Argos are looking so lousy) - and I wouldn't count any team there out for 1st yet - even expansion Ottawa or the QB-less Als. No way, IMO, Ticats cruise to 1st - they just had trouble beating the expansion RedBlacks.