How to Fix the Argos

[rdavies]

Imagine if you had a chance to sit with the Argo management and give your ideas on how to improve the franchise (off the field) and to raise its profile, popularity and hence profitability. What would you suggest to help this struggling franchise get back on the road to profitability. What would you say?

Here are the ground rules:
1 No negativity allowed, constructive comments only. We've heard all the negativity, it doesn't help.
No it's a lost cause comments.
2 No useless smart ass comments, be serious and think that someone from management might see and implement your ideas.
3 Keep your thoughts within the bounds of reality. Can we agree that maintaining a 25k attendance (break even/make money) for most CFL teams is a reasonable and realistic goal.
.................................................. ..............................................

Disclaimer: I'm am not familiar with the GTA market. Some ideas may apply and be successful here and some may not. I've just posted some of my generalities below to get people thinking.

There was a short time a few months back that I thought the Argos would be history in Toronto, and then I thought about and saw a few things.

There was the old standby of Montreal going to a smaller facility and renewing interest but I didn't know if that would translate or not and then I saw and heard some things that really gave me hope that Toronto can be turned around.

First, Montreal was in far worse shape than Toronto before it's resurrection. Different time and place but still shows a comeback is possible.

Watching the sold out crowd in Ottawa and seeing all those young people there was very encouraging. How did they come to attend that game? They would have had no history of live pro football and the ones old enough to have had the experience (last days of Riders and Renegades) likely had a bad experience. How did twenty years of bad experience override 100 years of good? How did Hunt and Co turn that around? It's was more than a stadium issue although Hunt had said that half of the bad experiences in the past revolved around the stadium.

While the stock thing to do would be to try to entice the stereotypical male 18-35 demo, Hunt and Co have families as a major target group. How can these lessons be applied to Toronto. Does the Toronto marketing plan or lack thereof need to be blown up and started from scratch almost like an expansion team? Also, although many (not all) aren't interested in the historical aspect how can that be re-perceived as a positive as are the old time NFL teams like the Packers and Bears.

Ottawa seems to have trotted out living legend Russ Jackson to most of their functions. Is there a better vibe than to associate the present team with a symbol of the team at its zenith. When you have a personality so revered, to the point of someone ignoring the Commissioner and the Prime Minister to shake his hand you really have something powerful at work.

Dave Naylor mentioned being a young sports reporter in Saskatchewan years ago and seeing mostly grey hair at the games. How did the Riders succeed in flipping their demo and and attracting a younger audience to the point of having scantily clad young people congregate in a hot tub near the endzone.

There's a large enough market in Toronto where this can succeed. I firmly believe each of the Raps, TFC and Argos have the same size core fanbase. It's time the Argos handled theirs better.

Another thing I find interesting is this forum, I don't know if it's the largest but I've just noticed something interesting. Many of the same posters post here but I noticed that the views of a thread are quite high and happen quite quickly. I post at the largest soccer message board in the country but its buildup is much, much slower. I think the people are out there, they just have to come out of the closet.

[1argoholic]

They firstly need to be sold. This means Cohan has to push Braley to get it done with MLSE if that is our only option. Right there MLSE would market the team which is lacking right now. The fans are out there you just have to give them a reason to get off the couch and down to games. Great marketing on a constant basis, year after year is needed. Not every Argo fan is a diehard. Toronto and Southern Ontario in general has millions of things that compete with CFL football. Living in the Kawartha's for the last year has blown my mind with all the festivals etc..etc. Too many interesting things to mention. Marketing is the key and there's a reason that every big store etc does it even though we all know they exist.

Also market to the the most ethnically diverse population in the world with photos of Argo players wearing clothing from certain countries. Captions could be in English and Polish as an example. It'll take some bright marketing mind to figure out which backgrounds to target and in which area of the city to run the ads in a tasteful way. Everyone likes to feel wanted or included. Toronto is the second largest Italian city in the world so I'd start there. Have Italian night once a year.

Really the sky's the limit as little to nothing has really ever been done by the organization. I think most fans on here could do a better job.

Yesterday alone we met a couple running a store in Coe Hill Ontario and two couples near Bon Echo Park on one of our discovering the area drives. We talked CFL football because I was wearing an Argo T and my wife a Stamps one. Everytime I wear Argo merch in the area someone says, Argos. The fans are everywhere you just need to convince them to get their butts in the seats.

[rdavies]

Toronto is the second largest Italian city in the world so I'd start there. Have Italian night once a year.

I was wearing an Argo T and my wife a Stamps one. Everytime I wear Argo merch in the area someone says, Argos. The fans are everywhere you just need to convince them to get their butts in the seats.Remember that interview in BC where Braley said that the Argo's marketing surveys showed a large Italian fanbase that follows the Argos.

How can they get the "Argooooooos" catchphrase into more common usage, you can't get much better marketing than a saying that is in everyday use.

[ArgoGabe22]

Step 1: The Argos should go after ex-fans who were season ticket holders in the past but are no longer and find out the reason why they aren't attending and what can they do to encourage them to come back.

[rdavies]

^ I agree. Even if it comes to no avail it makes a statement to the former STH. It says that we care about your input and want you back. You would have to get by the issue of why you may have ignored or angered that fan in the past but it's the little things that count and it's a start on the correct path.

[Argocister]

I would love to see the results of any Argofan surveys that the Argos have done in the last few years.
I've noticed that in Sask. and at the RedBlacks home opener ( I had the chance to go ) there were a lot of families. That is what provides a longer term base in my opinion.
But, saying that, if the Argos only have 5-8 thousand STH, then their walk up crowd is pretty darn good.
So, if you need to attract families .... Do you move to the burbs? ..... But then you lose your walk up crowd.
If you leave it downtown, how can you attract the families and still keep it cost effective and easy to attend? ... Picnic and shopping areas?...like Ottawa.... If it is BMO, is there room to create an event for the fans? For families?

I think the secret will be to attract both .... Not easy but I'm sure it can be done.

[ArgoGabe22]

Step 2: Target the suburbs. I have seen Hamilton have events in Burlington, even had a fan day there. Other than practising in Mississauga when was the last time the Argos have done something to attract fans from Mississauga? I can't comment on the others since I do not reside there but they could have easily brought the Grey Cup to Square One or City Hall or Celebration Square. Argos have events like Argocise, Stop the Bullying, Level the Playing Field etc. but do they go around the whole GTA?

In 2004, I was in Grade 8 and Adrion Smith brought the Grey Cup to my school. Did they do the same in 2012? If so, did they spread it around the whole GTA?

[Invader]

The Argos are no different than the Lions, Als, Esks or Stamps. They need to strive to keep the CFL relevant in an urban, multi-national environment which is dominated by U.S.-based pro leagues. Our media is also heavily dominated by the U.S., so any All-Canadian entity will struggle to be noticed. The CFL has a proud tradition and has weathered many cloudy days to reach the pinnacle the league is enjoying today. I believe the product is so good, it basically sells itself, as Canadian football has been doing for 150 years. The more the league can be exposed to the uninitiated, the more these new fans will grow to love the CFL too.

Yes, there are some hurdles, but nothing worth doing is ever easy. I believe many of the Argos ills will be cured by relocating to a more-intimate outdoor stadium, where football was meant to be played. With 25,000 tickets to sell, the Argos should become a hot commodity in short order, similar to what happened in Montreal and now Ottawa. Then the news will become positive. It will be OK to be an Argo fan again!

[rdavies]

In 2004, I was in Grade 8 and Adrion Smith brought the Grey Cup to my school.I've got shoes older than you. lol. But you bring to mind an interesting question that I think would help to be answered.

They say the Argo fanbase is older, if I do my math correctly you're around 24 years old and everyone tells me that the Argos aren't on your radar. Well, as a mod here, obviously they are on your radar which beggars the question how did you avoid the peer pressure or apathy against the Argos and become a fan?

From what most seem to report you are about as an endangered specie as a baby panda. What's your story and how many more are there like you and how can they be encouraged like they were in Ottawa. Does something like a pregame tailgate or music show (Trews) help?

I can see I'm going to be doing a lot of dissections, lol. Hate to keep writing lol but I can't stand those giant smilies. Can't we get rid of these (or make them smaller)?

[D-Gap-Willie]

OK - I am going to do something that I swore I would never do again -- namely post on this forum. What is needed is a complete change of philosophy - forget about trying to market the Argos like grapefruit at your local supermarket. The Argos don't need to sell grapefruit ( single tickets), but they need to develop true fans. Being a FAN means making a large emotional investment in your team - if you have made that emotional investment, you will find a way to buy season tickets, flex paks, etc. and come to games. Understand that without emotional investment there will NOT be financial investment.

There are many ingredients that go into making a true fan, but the most essential is a sense of belonging, a sense of being part of the action, a sense of being wanted - part of the 'team'. That is where the change of philosophy is needed. Forget the big city GTA marketing, and look at success. Do you know that Jeff hunt has met 80% of all Redblacks STH, and has made sure that the other directors have met the others. The fans know that they are inside and wanted. Also, do you think that TFC fans refer to BMO as "their grounds" by accident - no they feel ownership and being part of it all. Everybody in Hamilton feels some kinship with Bob Young, even though he is not from Hamilton. I could go on with others, but you get the idea.

Unfortunately, most Argo fans feel that they are merely watching the passing parade at arms length, and present day Argo marketing creates some interest, but only sufficient to lead a fan to watch the game on TV - more grapefruit sold.

As a FAN of the Argos for 48 years and season ticket holder (until this year) for 42 years, I can attest to the changes in attitude which accompany downturns in attendance. When attendance has shrivelled, so has many fans sense of belonging and being part of the team. Thinking back to the days of constant sell outs at Exhibition Stadium of 33,125, missing a game was like passing up on your family reunion - the fans were like family, joined together by emotional commitment.

It's not about demographics, ethnicity, beauty of the stadium, tailgating, difficulty of the commute or one hundred other excuses - those things can all be overcome in time. It's about belonging and feeling not only wanted, but part of the family - folks want to be fans NOT customers.. Put players and profile execs to work meeting people, phoning people making them feel wanted - not merely a limp fan day.. That ground swell of emotion can be rebuilt.

[rdavies]

Awesome post and great food for thought.

Every CFL team (save Edmonton) has had severe financial crises (to the point of bankruptcy) in the past 30 years. And yet most of them have amazingly recovered and prospered. As different and diverse markets as they all are, they have proven recovery and prosperity is possible as it is in Toronto. Even if the league were totally detested, the market is so large that you could still find 25k contrarians to go against conventional attitudes.

Another note, if the season tickets sales are as dismal as some have reported, doesn't that mean even though there have been poor crowds that the walkup crowd has been good?

[paulwoods13]

Do you know that Jeff hunt has met 80% of all Redblacks STH, and has made sure that the other directors have met the others. The fans know that they are inside and wanted. Also, do you think that TFC fans refer to BMO as "their grounds" by accident - no they feel ownership and being part of it all. Everybody in Hamilton feels some kinship with Bob Young, even though he is not from Hamilton. I could go on with others, but you get the idea.

Unfortunately, most Argo fans feel that they are merely watching the passing parade at arms length, and present day Argo marketing creates some interest, but only sufficient to lead a fan to watch the game on TV - more grapefruit sold.

It's about belonging and feeling not only wanted, but part of the family - folks want to be fans NOT customers.. Put players and profile execs to work meeting people, phoning people making them feel wanted - not merely a limp fan day.. That ground swell of emotion can be rebuilt.

Very astute observations and suggestions.

[Argo57]

OK - I am going to do something that I swore I would never do again -- namely post on this forum. What is needed is a complete change of philosophy - forget about trying to market the Argos like grapefruit at your local supermarket. The Argos don't need to sell grapefruit ( single tickets), but they need to develop true fans. Being a FAN means making a large emotional investment in your team - if you have made that emotional investment, you will find a way to buy season tickets, flex paks, etc. and come to games. Understand that without emotional investment there will NOT be financial investment.

There are many ingredients that go into making a true fan, but the most essential is a sense of belonging, a sense of being part of the action, a sense of being wanted - part of the 'team'. That is where the change of philosophy is needed. Forget the big city GTA marketing, and look at success. Do you know that Jeff hunt has met 80% of all Redblacks STH, and has made sure that the other directors have met the others. The fans know that they are inside and wanted. Also, do you think that TFC fans refer to BMO as "their grounds" by accident - no they feel ownership and being part of it all. Everybody in Hamilton feels some kinship with Bob Young, even though he is not from Hamilton. I could go on with others, but you get the idea.

Unfortunately, most Argo fans feel that they are merely watching the passing parade at arms length, and present day Argo marketing creates some interest, but only sufficient to lead a fan to watch the game on TV - more grapefruit sold.

As a FAN of the Argos for 48 years and season ticket holder (until this year) for 42 years, I can attest to the changes in attitude which accompany downturns in attendance. When attendance has shrivelled, so has many fans sense of belonging and being part of the team. Thinking back to the days of constant sell outs at Exhibition Stadium of 33,125, missing a game was like passing up on your family reunion - the fans were like family, joined together by emotional commitment.

It's not about demographics, ethnicity, beauty of the stadium, tailgating, difficulty of the commute or one hundred other excuses - those things can all be overcome in time. It's about belonging and feeling not only wanted, but part of the family - folks want to be fans NOT customers.. Put players and profile execs to work meeting people, phoning people making them feel wanted - not merely a limp fan day.. That ground swell of emotion can be rebuilt.

Perfect!!
Follow Willie's philosophy and they will succeed!!!

[T-Bone]

I apologize for bringing up TFC as example but D-Gap-Willie you have made a very good point. We all know TFC has had some bad seasons prior to this year and especially last season. The community of fans is part of what made me want to go to games last year, especially towards the end when there was no hope of playoffs yet again and the weather wasn't particularly great. I think community is definitely a big part of sports. Part of the reason I became an Argo/CFL fan is because of the people I have meet. This has been said many times before but unfortunately the Argos fan base does seem to be very fractured and I don't know what the fix is for that. Though sometimes dysfunctional we do have a community here on this forum and I would like to see it grow. Glad to see you back D-Gap-Willie.

[Argocister]

I like D- Gap- Willies suggestion of emotional involvement from the fans and specifically the STHs.
It fits in with previously mentioned comments of contacting previous STH and including families in the mix.
Also it will help continue the relationship with the team after school .... Where ArgoGabe had mentioned becoming a fan with the visiting Grey Cup, the Argos have built relationships with students in all their programs they do with the schools. They need to continue to build on these relationships.
Somewhere where we all belong ....... Us, .....the long lost souls of the Argofandom ........Shayman, I think there's a song in there somewhere.
All joking aside, I do like this suggestion. Hope you get to attend one of the Argos games D-Gap

[ArgoGabe22]

Well, as a mod here, obviously they are on your radar which beggars the question how did you avoid the peer pressure or apathy against the Argos and become a fan?

From what most seem to report you are about as an endangered specie as a baby panda. What's your story and how many more are there like you and how can they be encouraged like they were in Ottawa. Does something like a pregame tailgate or music show (Trews) help?

I'm actually younger than 24 but that isn't important.

I went to my first game in 2004 with my father and brother just to do something and you could say I just fell in love with the game. Never a big football fan before but then afterwards I started watching the NFL too and concluded I much prefer the CFL. In school I was the only CFL fan, but also followed the NFL but no one bothered me about it. I think the Argos need to sell the game more. Personally, I don't care for tailgates and I sure don't care for the half-time shows. I'm just there to watch CFL football but the gameday experience is starting to get to me with the excessively loud speakers.

Going along with D-Gap's post. 2004 was the first year I followed the Argos so winning the Grey Cup was a good experience. What made it better was that as an Argos fan, having Adrion Smith bringing the Cup to school and even having a field trip to one Argos practice called "Practice with the Champs" really made it special to rub it in with school mates. Even they enjoyed the experience of talking with players and getting autographs. Being young at the time, the experience in 2005 after the GC win really sold me as a fan which eventually translated into seasons tickets.

I know someone we all know who had a special visit from Henry Burris delivering their REDBLACK tickets at their door. Nothing too special but it sure beats a boring letter in the mail.

[Argo]

Excessively loud speakers, Rogers security drones, exploitive food and drink pricing for SOS-quality, poor ambience, Argonauts-as-unwanted-tenants, generally poor football played at so-called "home", ticket prices increased (a mini-epic fail), Horn Chen impersonator as owner, ...


I'm actually younger than 24 but that isn't important.

I went to my first game in 2004 with my father and brother just to do something and you could say I just fell in love with the game. Never a big football fan before but then afterwards I started watching the NFL too and concluded I much prefer the CFL. In school I was the only CFL fan, but also followed the NFL but no one bothered me about it. I think the Argos need to sell the game more. Personally, I don't care for tailgates and I sure don't care for the half-time shows. I'm just there to watch CFL football but the gameday experience is starting to get to me with the excessively loud speakers.

Going along with D-Gap's post. 2004 was the first year I followed the Argos so winning the Grey Cup was a good experience. What made it better was that as an Argos fan, having Adrion Smith bringing the Cup to school and even having a field trip to one Argos practice called "Practice with the Champs" really made it special to rub it in with school mates. Even they enjoyed the experience of talking with players and getting autographs. Being young at the time, the experience in 2005 after the GC win really sold me as a fan which eventually translated into seasons tickets.

I know someone we all know who had a special visit from Henry Burris delivering their REDBLACK tickets at their door. Nothing too special but it sure beats a boring letter in the mail.

[ArgoRavi]

I like D- Gap- Willies suggestion of emotional involvement from the fans and specifically the STHs.
It fits in with previously mentioned comments of contacting previous STH and including families in the mix.
Also it will help continue the relationship with the team after school .... Where ArgoGabe had mentioned becoming a fan with the visiting Grey Cup, the Argos have built relationships with students in all their programs they do with the schools. They need to continue to build on these relationships.
Somewhere where we all belong ....... Us, .....the long lost souls of the Argofandom ........Shayman, I think there's a song in there somewhere.
All joking aside, I do like this suggestion. Hope you get to attend one of the Argos games D-Gap

For all of the community work that the Argos have been doing for many years, it has not translated in ticket sales. That doesn't mean all that work is useless but it would be nice to see it result in butts in the seats. I am not sure how that happens though.

[1argoholic]

Firstly what a GREAT post D-Gap-Willie!!!

My thoughts on marketing to new Canadians is to convert or try and tap into an untapped market. Perhaps these folks would like to feel wanted and show interest in what might be new sport to them. Canada isn't just bad Maple Leaf hockey. We'll never know if marketing on a steady basis would work here as the Argos just don't market steadily at all.

Hell I know how it feels to be marketing to a crowd when you're not known. Back in 88 I started my landscape company in Mississauga and got a job within my first week. Getting sick of the GTA rat race and wanting to be closer to family we made the mistake of moving to Van Isle. It was like pulling teeth for this TO guy to get going there. Now I'm starting over yet again with a very slow but better response in an area where we know not one single person. I've quoted a few jobs but still have zero to show for it. It crosses my mind to pull the plug on a whole bunch of ads but that would be dumb. I need to get my brand seen.
The Argos need constant marketing and to draw old fans back.

[paulwoods13]

I apologize for bringing up TFC as example but D-Gap-Willie you have made a very good point. We all know TFC has had some bad seasons prior to this year and especially last season. The community of fans is part of what made me want to go to games last year, especially towards the end when there was no hope of playoffs yet again and the weather wasn't particularly great. I think community is definitely a big part of sports. Part of the reason I became an Argo/CFL fan is because of the people I have meet. This has been said many times before but unfortunately the Argos fan base does seem to be very fractured and I don't know what the fix is for that. Though sometimes dysfunctional we do have a community here on this forum and I would like to see it grow. Glad to see you back D-Gap-Willie.

I think we need to find a way to emulate the fan groups that cluster together at TFC games. Red Patch Boys etc. Give them different scarves or some other identifying feature, each group gets its own song/chant that is played once a game for all in the group to bellow at the top of their lungs, etc. The trick is it has to be (and to feel) authentic and not forced/manufactured. Not an easy thing to accomplish.

One thing I have wanted forever is for the Argos to adopt some kind of anthem: a very inspiring piece of music, preferably one that fans can sing/chant/bellow along to, to be played at specified occasions such as when the team is introduced or scores a TD. Something like Wake Up by Arcade Fire might work -- it has a chant-like section with no words that can be screamed out by the crowd in unison. This would in some small way emulate the chants English soccer teams have. Even the Buffalo Bills have something similar -- they play the '60s hit Shout every time the team scores and a hell of a lot of the fans sing and dance along with it. It's fun and it inspires a feeling of togetherness.

Dal Richards' Argo Song is very cool and I'm thrilled that Steve and the Argonotes revived it, but it's not the right song to get the crowd involved. Argos Rule the CFL by the Argonotes has potential to do so, musically, but is probably too wordy and too much about the other teams. Love Them Argos from 1981 might have worked (especially because it incorporated the classic "Aaaaar-gooooos" cadence) but it never took off and was quickly dropped. The Argo Glide by Willie Pless et al was too smooth and not at all inspirational.

The song doesn't have to be about the Argos (although that would help) but it has to be anthemic and designed to inspire everyone in the crowd to scream along in unison. Wake Up, the screamed parts of Viva La Vida by Coldplay, or Stomp by the Brothers Johnson are three that I think could be made to work.

[ArgoGabe22]

One thing I have wanted forever is for the Argos to adopt some kind of anthem: a very inspiring piece of music, preferably one that fans can sing/chant/bellow along to, to be played at specified occasions such as when the team is introduced or scores a TD.

Well there is that one song which Arland Bruce wrote, which the team still used after his trade to Hamilton.

[paulwoods13]

Well there is that one song which Arland Bruce wrote, which the team still used after his trade to Hamilton.

Such a sing-along-able ditty that I have completely forgotten how it went (or even that it existed).

[ArgoGabe22]

Such a sing-along-able ditty that I have completely forgotten how it went (or even that it existed).

It was pretty bad actually. Can't find it but this article is the closest you'll ever get http://sports.nationalpost.com/2011/09/02/bruce-lives-on-in-song-for-argos/

[rdavies]

Seeing as I'm pretty new here, does anybody here know who peruses this forum. I know Bob Young posts at ticats.ca and several influential people read the soccer forum I'm part of. Any Argo prominenti post or lurk here who might help get the message across?


Argos fans are not dead yet, they're still fighting.

Why did I get the feeling from looking at this, that whoever put this up was like a WWII partisan and Rogers are like the SS who will try and hunt down the perpetrator. Just a quick feeling I got, no logic or reason to it.

Ignore the spelling

http://i57.tinypic.com/118qbdv.jpg

[Mulder]

I know someone we all know who had a special visit from Henry Burris delivering their REDBLACK tickets at their door. Nothing too special but it sure beats a boring letter in the mail.

Who was that ? :P

http://ottawaredblacks.com/video/index/id/99085

[ArgoRavi]

Seeing as I'm pretty new here, does anybody here know who peruses this forum. I know Bob Young posts at ticats.ca and several influential people read the soccer forum I'm part of. Any Argo prominenti post or lurk here who might help get the message across?

One person who I am pretty sure did monitor this forum was Beth Waldman but she is no longer with the team. I do believe that there are others who visit on occasion though.

[AngeloV]

Who was that ? :P

http://ottawaredblacks.com/video/index/id/99085

What's up with that, Mulder? Were you afraid to come out or something? LOL!!

[ArgoGabe22]

What's up with that, Mulder? Were you afraid to come out or something? LOL!!

Deep down he still bleeds blue. Probably went back to get a few eggs but the camera just cut in time.

[Cordo]

The problem with the Argos is that fundamentally they are always playing second fiddle in every aspect of the organization. The guy who owns the team is doing so because he feels obligated for the league's sake, not because he is invested in growing the Toronto Argonauts brand in the city. The team has no home that is their own & no practice facility that is their own. All this stuff contributes to the mentality that this team isn't worth people's time & investment of emotions because at the end of the day, who is investing in the Argos? Moving to BMO & playing second fiddle to TFC is just going to add to that perception.

This team needs an owner that is invested in growing the Toronto Argonauts brand, they need a place to play that is their own, where they can sell the Canadian Football experience. They also need to be aggressive in their marketing to remind the public about the fact that they are the oldest professional sports team in this ****ing city, with a history of winning & great players. NO STUPID SUPERHERO ADS EVER AGAIN!

You want to save the Argos, then shed the label that is hanging over the team like a black cloud.

[rdavies]

they need a place to play that is their own, where they can sell the Canadian Football experience. They also need to be aggressive in their marketing to remind the public about the fact that they are the oldest professional sports team in this ****ing city, with a history of winning & great players. Agree with the second part not so sure about the first.

As long as an equitable deal is struck and dates are fairly allocated, I don't see the Argos at BMO being as second class as they are at the RC. For starters there are a lot more dates available when the other team isn't playing 80 plus home games.

Leiweke did state that neither team would know the other played there vis a vis field markings, stadium promotions etc.

[Mulder]

What's up with that, Mulder? Were you afraid to come out or something? LOL!!

Was holding back the dog. I came out eventually!


Deep down he still bleeds blue. Probably went back to get a few eggs but the camera just cut in time.

Hard not to get caught up with the excitement here in Ottawa. I actually went into to grab a bra, I hear Henry likes to wear them.

[1argoholic]

Too bad that you weren't wearing an Argo T at the time. haha. I do like Henry though. I could see him on the TSN panel one day.

I can't wait to take a beautiful scenic drive to Ottawa from here for a game or visit.

[Mulder]

Too bad that you weren't wearing an Argo T at the time. haha. I do like Henry though. I could see him on the TSN panel one day.

I can't wait to take a beautiful scenic drive to Ottawa from here for a game or visit.

Yup! My suggestion is for you to take 28 to Bancroft & keep with 28 to highway 41. Head to Renfrew.

Don't take Highway 7. It's boring!

[shayman]

I
One thing I have wanted forever is for the Argos to adopt some kind of anthem: a very inspiring piece of music, preferably one that fans can sing/chant/bellow along to, to be played at specified occasions such as when the team is introduced or scores a TD

Great idea. However you have to stick with something like this for a year or two; it won't catch on instantly.

We (and the Argos) tried with this one a few years ago but perhaps gave up a little too quickly -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaD5n6rnc-4

And the crowd singing it in Portugal -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CcU085tGwE

(stick with it, the chorus is catchy.)

I'd love something original rather than just reusing somebody else's song. Too many teams just borrow something from somewhere else. (Go Argos Go and Argos Rule the CFL are original songs, btw.)

[matthew]

Well a few years back I remember a really terrible rap half time show that some guy did where he spelled out "ARGOS" but I can't remember the name of the guy perhaps because it was sooo bad.

[1argoholic]

Mulder my wife and I just took that drive on Sat. We ended up heading past Bon Echo and down through Flinton and back home. Just that drive from Bancroft was beautiful along 28. Areas that look like small mountains on BC. Love being in this area. I still like Hwy 7 as it beats the 401.

[rdavies]

Just read the ratings for last week (https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/great-canadian-ratings-report-commonwealth-games-hold-own-211841537.html) and the Argos got a great number vs Sask which of course leads to the usual BS that it's only Sask people watching (most of the province apparently). And yet the other numbers the Argos have drawn this year are still better than the Jays vs the Yanks and were only 38 times larger than the TFC game.

And yet the perception still exists (aside from the early Argo games this year) that the Argos are public failures and TFC is a going concern. The Argos have outdrawn TFC every year but one for TFCs entire existence and near 6x the TV audience at the very least.

How can the reality be used to change the perception? Of course the optics of a small, fuller stadium would be a good first step, but the perception might still exist. I just use the numbers to hammer people on the head, people can spin them as they wish (ie only Sask people watch) but it's hard to argue with the numbers.

[shayman]

I don't know how to fix the Argos but as we all know, the schedule isn't helping.

We're a midst of an 11 week period in which the Argos are only at home during ONE of those weeks. (And, that week (week 8) they play twice.) Pretty hard to build any kind of momentum when you have 7 road weeks and 3 bye weeks during an 11 week span.

I thought we couldn't do worse than 2012 when we had a home game on every different day of the week, but somehow, we've found an even stranger schedule.

[argolio]

I thought we couldn't do worse than 2012 when we had a home game on every different day of the week, but somehow, we've found an even stranger schedule.And 2014 makes two years in a row without a September home game. That's just brutal.

[paulwoods13]

Great idea. However you have to stick with something like this for a year or two; it won't catch on instantly.

We (and the Argos) tried with this one a few years ago but perhaps gave up a little too quickly -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaD5n6rnc-4

And the crowd singing it in Portugal -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CcU085tGwE

(stick with it, the chorus is catchy.)

I'd love something original rather than just reusing somebody else's song. Too many teams just borrow something from somewhere else. (Go Argos Go and Argos Rule the CFL are original songs, btw.)

If we could get our crowds, in BMO, signing along like that crowd in Portugal, it would unleash a sense of fun like we've never seen before at an Argo game. I wonder if Vindaloo could be rewritten with a few Argo-specific words and phrases to make it "ours."

Re ARTCFL: You (or whoever wrote it) deserve tons of credit. It's a brilliant conception and tremendously executed. It's just too complicated to expect a big crowd to join in, I think. But maybe I'm wrong and that one could be made to fit the bill if we all stuck with it for a couple of seasons. I certainly wouldn't discourage trying.

[paulwoods13]

We're a midst of an 11 week period in which the Argos are only at home during ONE of those weeks. (And, that week (week 8) they play twice.) Pretty hard to build any kind of momentum when you have 7 road weeks and 3 bye weeks during an 11 week span.

Yes, this three-month (!) stretch is probably the most insane such time period any pro sports team has ever been forced to unleash on its fans.

[1argoholic]

Typical crap from year to year at Rogers Cave.

By the way I used to love the dome and it's location. Anyone else notice how at least in Level 200 the place looks like a dirty pit.
The seats are covered in grime and gunk. Real classy joint.

[argolio]

Anyone else notice how at least in Level 200 the place looks like a dirty pit.
The seats are covered in grime and gunk. Real classy joint.I bet they'll clean that up when they put in grass after the Argos get evicted.

[Cordo]

Just read the ratings for last week (https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/great-canadian-ratings-report-commonwealth-games-hold-own-211841537.html) and the Argos got a great number vs Sask which of course leads to the usual BS that it's only Sask people watching (most of the province apparently). And yet the other numbers the Argos have drawn this year are still better than the Jays vs the Yanks and were only 38 times larger than the TFC game.

And yet the perception still exists (aside from the early Argo games this year) that the Argos are public failures and TFC is a going concern. The Argos have outdrawn TFC every year but one for TFCs entire existence and near 6x the TV audience at the very least.

How can the reality be used to change the perception? Of course the optics of a small, fuller stadium would be a good first step, but the perception might still exist. I just use the numbers to hammer people on the head, people can spin them as they wish (ie only Sask people watch) but it's hard to argue with the numbers.

It all goes back to the stadium issue. Outside of the 100th Grey Cup, the last time the Argos got any legitimate buzz in this city was when people thought they were building a stadium. TFC has a better perception around it because they have their own home & the stands are full when they play. Still, it's not like they have generated a ton of interest, even with bringing in guys like Defoe & Bradley. Those TV numbers are pretty bad.

[Argo57]

Typical crap from year to year at Rogers Cave.

By the way I used to love the dome and it's location. Anyone else notice how at least in Level 200 the place looks like a dirty pit.
The seats are covered in grime and gunk. Real classy joint.

Agree with you, we sit in the 200's as well and it is pretty shabby. That stadium has not aged well at all.

[Mulder]

Mulder my wife and I just took that drive on Sat. We ended up heading past Bon Echo and down through Flinton and back home. Just that drive from Bancroft was beautiful along 28. Areas that look like small mountains on BC. Love being in this area. I still like Hwy 7 as it beats the 401.

The area around Algonquin Park & in Algonquin Park is my favourite in Ontario. Love driving up that way.

I recently drove though the Adirondack's on our way back from Boston and it was just as stunning.

[dans41]

i was thinking this week
can the argos reduce prices or make deals to draw people in?

[ArgoRavi]

i was thinking this week
can the argos reduce prices or make deals to draw people in?

The problem with that is that you will tick off the people who have already paid full price.

[Ron]

The problem with that is that you will tick off the people who have already paid full price.

He has a point and people here do bitch about attendance.

Cheapest ticketmaster seat for an Argo game is $37. Cheapest ticketmaster seat for a Jays game is $11. Now tell me 3X more $$$ does not matter when they see a Argos game full of empty seats.

[Ron]

Agree with you, we sit in the 200's as well and it is pretty shabby. That stadium has not aged well at all.

Funny how the owners talk about spending millions to put in grass yet can't fix a hand dryer.

[AngeloV]

Funny how the owners talk about spending millions to put in grass yet can't fix a hand dryer.

LOL..I was thinking the same thing last game. They've had the same crappy hand dryers for 25 years. You'd think they can change to the new high powered ones that pretty well every food establishment now has.

[Skinny G]

I say bring back the "Family Zone" - cheaper tickets cause they were under the jumbotron. We had 7-11, Pizza Pizza, and Metro as sponsors for that. It's an area in the stands that they don't really sell, but could offer cheap tickets to get more casual fans out? When it was the Pizza Pizza family zone it used to do pretty well from what I remember.

[ArgoGabe22]

I had asked this question elsewhere but is it time for a rebranding?

In modern sports the average lifespan of a logo is quite less than in the past. Our logo has morphed over the years from a boating past to more of a Greek warrior look. We had the "A" shield for 10 years now, Jason had been for 10 years and the blank "A" in the 90's only lasted 4 seasons. Should we revisit a newer updated version of a boat for some nostalgia?

They could also go back and re-use the retro logo/jersey for a few more games. One thing Saskatchewan has done well over the past few years was to focus on retro merchandise as well as wear the uniforms multiple times. Our next home game will feature some sort of third jersey, which I bet will try to emulate what the Lions have done.

I ask this question because of the many experiences I have witnessed when wearing my vintage Condredge Holloway jersey. Many people on countless occasions have come up to me on the streets to talk about the Argos, except they always talk of the “good old days” with Greer and Holloway and have sadly admitted they no longer follow the team or go to the games. You could compare Ray and Owens with Holloway and Greer so the product on the field isn't the problem. It is as if the people of Toronto who used to follow the Argos have somehow forgotten that they even exist.

A rebranding may happen when MLSE takes over but not sure what direction they will take.

[gilthethrill]

I had asked this question elsewhere but is it time for a rebranding?

In modern sports the average lifespan of a logo is quite less than in the past. Our logo has morphed over the years from a boating past to more of a Greek warrior look. We had the "A" shield for 10 years now, Jason had been for 10 years and the blank "A" in the 90's only lasted 4 seasons. Should we revisit a newer updated version of a boat for some nostalgia?

They could also go back and re-use the retro logo/jersey for a few more games. One thing Saskatchewan has done well over the past few years was to focus on retro merchandise as well as wear the uniforms multiple times. Our next home game will feature some sort of third jersey, which I bet will try to emulate what the Lions have done.

I ask this question because of the many experiences I have witnessed when wearing my vintage Condredge Holloway jersey. Many people on countless occasions have come up to me on the streets to talk about the Argos, except they always talk of the “good old days” with Greer and Holloway and have sadly admitted they no longer follow the team or go to the games. You could compare Ray and Owens with Holloway and Greer so the product on the field isn't the problem. It is as if the people of Toronto who used to follow the Argos have somehow forgotten that they even exist.

A rebranding may happen when MLSE takes over but not sure what direction they will take.

I think it was either 1994 or 1995 when the Argos changed the logo from the "A" to the Warrior holding the shield & changing the powder blue with teal. That essentially eliminated the "Double Blue" & upset long time fans.

[paulwoods13]

It was 1995. "Slate green" replaced light blue. A gigantic error by Bob Nicholson to toss out a beautiful colour scheme that was then about 121 years old. Rectified (thankfully) by Cynamon and Sokolowski, and refined by the current regime to restore the true (slightly greenish-hued) Cambridge Blue.

As to ArgoGabe22's question, I don't think there is any question that reviving the 1979-88 boat logo and some version of that era's uniforms would be received with almost 100% support, from Argo fans, fans of other teams and even former/non-fans. Everyone seems to love the boat logo. It could, if necessary, be slightly modernized but it is a classic design and colour scheme. Bring it on!

[ArgoRavi]

Will we ever see the Argos wear their third uniforms from last year again (i.e., the 1981-88 ones)? I know that I didn't get much support for this but I would have loved to see them wear those uniforms for the East Final last November.

[paulwoods13]

They are wearing "new uniforms" for the Aug. 17 game. I think all teams are busting out third unis in the next two weeks. Probably all variations on B.C.'s "gun-metal black," I bet.

[ArgoRavi]

They are wearing "new uniforms" for the Aug. 17 game. I think all teams are busting out third unis in the next two weeks. Probably all variations on B.C.'s "gun-metal black," I bet.

I really hope that they aren't actually black though.

[VANRIDERFAN]

What is this fascination with black uniforms anyway? I hated it when the Roughriders went all black and I have no idea why the Argo's would go black at all.

[Argo57]

It was 1995. "Slate green" replaced light blue. A gigantic error by Bob Nicholson to toss out a beautiful colour scheme that was then about 121 years old. Rectified (thankfully) by Cynamon and Sokolowski, and refined by the current regime to restore the true (slightly greenish-hued) Cambridge Blue.

As to ArgoGabe22's question, I don't think there is any question that reviving the 1979-88 boat logo and some version of that era's uniforms would be received with almost 100% support, from Argo fans, fans of other teams and even former/non-fans. Everyone seems to love the boat logo. It could, if necessary, be slightly modernized but it is a classic design and colour scheme. Bring it on!

That boat logo is one of the best I have seen in all of pro sports, perhaps the 1991 style uniforms with the boat logo helmet.

[ArgoRavi]

What is this fascination with black uniforms anyway? I hated it when the Roughriders went all black and I have no idea why the Argo's would go black at all.

There was a study that came out in the late 1980s, I believe, which showed that teams in the NFL and NHL who wore black took more penalties which was seen as a sign of greater aggressiveness. This study got a lot of play at the time which precipitated many pro sports teams going to black in their uniforms in the late 1980s and early 1990s such as the B.C. Lions (going away from their orange jerseys in which they had their most success since the early to mid-1960s), Los Angeles Kings, New Jersey Devils, Atlanta Falcons and others. This trend has weakened a bit in recent years but not as much as I would like. IMO, CFL teams like Montreal, Saskatchewan and Calgary, given their histories, have no business having black in their uniforms or even as part of third uniforms. I really hope that the Argos aren't going down that route as well when this franchise should really be playing up their rich history instead.

BTW, Bruce McNall, after buying the Argos with Wayne Gretzky and John Candy in 1991 floated the idea briefly of changing the Argos' uniforms to black like he had with the Kings but there wasn't sufficient support from the fan base to do this.

[T-Bone]

i was thinking this week
can the argos reduce prices or make deals to draw people in?
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>$10 Ticket?... Yes Please! Use promo code BLITZ to redeem! <a href="https://t.co/WSFzFikN61">https://t.co/WSFzFikN61</a></p>&mdash; Toronto Argonauts (@TorontoArgos) <a href="https://twitter.com/TorontoArgos/statuses/498461445126766592">August 10, 2014</a></blockquote>
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[matthew]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>$10 Ticket?... Yes Please! Use promo code BLITZ to redeem! <a href="https://t.co/WSFzFikN61">https://t.co/WSFzFikN61</a></p>&mdash; Toronto Argonauts (@TorontoArgos) <a href="https://twitter.com/TorontoArgos/statuses/498461445126766592">August 10, 2014</a></blockquote>
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A Tuesday night game leaves little choice!

[Tau Ceti]

It's already expired. I can understand why the have to do it but it's annoying knowing I'm going at $37 a person.

[Skinny G]

They were selling these $10 tickets at the Taste of the Danforth at the Argos booth there.

[argos1873]

It's already expired. I can understand why the have to do it but it's annoying knowing I'm going at $37 a person.

Understandable that you would be annoyed, but its not like many other things go on sale from time to time after you've bought something at full price. I'm annoyed that I missed the sale. But oh well.

[rdavies]

CFL's outgoing commissioner Mark Cohon fixed plenty, but couldn't solve Toronto (http://www.owensoundsuntimes.com/2014/11/07/cfls-outgoing-commissioner-mark-cohon-fixed-plenty-but-couldnt-solve-toronto)
Steve Simmons, Toronto Sun November 7, 2014

His seven years as commissioner are about to end but the Rubik’s Cube that is Toronto football remains on Mark Cohon’s desk, still unsolved, barely moved.

It is the one giant blemish on Cohon’s otherwise impressive and somewhat fortunate resume as commissioner of the Canadian Football League. The CFL has labour peace, a rich television deal, an expansion model in Ottawa, strong ownership, new stadiums in Hamilton and Winnipeg, another coming in Regina, and amidst all that economic glory there is still the quagmire that is Toronto. Where interest is lower than attendance. With an owner like David Braley who would rather not be owner. Where the Argonauts play in the wrong stadium. Where a quarterback can go down before a must-win game and it doesn’t penetrate local sports radio.

Where to begin with solving Argo football, the one failure of the Cohon regime.

“There’s definitely a story to re-write in Toronto and that’s what we’ve been trying to do,” said Cohon in a lengthy interview. Time, on his part, is running out. The Argos play their last game Friday night, maybe their last of the Cohon era, depending on results from the weekend.

“I hope I can do that or be part of them moving forward.

“You can start to re-write the story if they move to BMO Field. What I’d like to see — and we’ve seen it work in every market and we’ve seen it work 45 minutes down the road, everything changes when you have the right stadium. The biggest unanswered question remains, where will be the Argos be playing?

“There are ongoing conversations about that. We’re still try to work out a relationship with Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment and BMO Field. We hope to come to some kind of resolution. We’re still talking and when that happens, I like to remain optimistic that something can be done.”

This is how sad the state of Toronto football is: The salvation of the Argos is find a way to piggy-back on MLSE and move into BMO Field, which would give them just about the worst stadium in the CFL. They have one of the best stadiums now — only it’s cavernous and empty and without feel of any kind. There is no football experience at Argo games now, just memories of better days and better times.

But then Cohon points out — the great unexplained CFL contradiction. “There are between 600,000 and 700,000 people watching every Argo game,” the commissioner said. “And I can tell you from our numbers, a lot of those people are in Southern Ontario.”

And that just complicates matters for those trying to solve what is the Argos. There is interest, but where? There are fans, but can you hear them?

“Is attendance down? Yes it is,” said Cohon. “Do they need a new environment for the re-imaging of the Argos? Yes they do? Those steps are being taken. I believe BMO will be resolved.”

There are three somewhat unconnected issues regarding the Argos that need to connect. One is stadium. Two is arms length ownership unwilling to invest in the team. Three is a disengaged fan base, which includes a lost generation of 20-and-30 somethings, television numbers aside.

Cohon believes the stadium can be the elixir to solve the problem, as much as it can be solved. His thought process works this way: A new stadium, renovated by MLSE, will attract a steady fan base. The stadium and the fan base will attract a new owner. With sound involved ownership, fewer empty seats, and a better entertainment environment, younger people will be attracted to attend.

He has seen that happen in Ottawa and to a lesser extent in the first year at Tim Hortons Field in Hamilton.

The Argo lease runs until 2017, which from the outside means three more years of punishment at Rogers Centre. But there is an out in the lease. Should the Argos do a deal with BMO they need to give one-year notice and can escape early if need be.

As of now, with oneyear notice not yet given, expect the Argos to be back at Rogers Centre next season, unless they find a way to negotiate out.

“I truly believe if you change the experience and take young people to the game, they’ll get caught up in it,” said Cohon. “Look what happened in Montreal when they moved from the Big O to McGill. Look at Hamilton. Look at Ottawa.”

What he misses — what everyone seems to miss — is that Toronto isn’t Hamilton or Ottawa or Montreal. It’s a dilemma all its own. It’s deep-rooted and multi-layered. And it’s hollow.

I went to lunch with Cohon when he became commissioner seven years ago: We talked a lot about fixing Toronto football and how it might be accomplished. That conversation we had Wednesday hasn’t changed that much in seven years — even with a terrific 100th Grey Cup here — only the matters have been become more acute and more distant. And the threat of the NFL, if it was ever real, is gone.

Cohon points now to the Blue Jays as a model of change. He says they have a younger, more engaged audience, especially in the ballpark. The challenge for all pro sports now with information and television coming from so many sources in so many different ways is making the stadium experience better.

The Argos need a stadium first before the stadium experience can come.

“But if you look at the team, two years ago they won the Grey Cup. Last year, they were a game away from getting there. And now they’re competing for a playoff spot.”

He didn’t mention this is the worst season of CFL football anyone can remember. But we move on.

“If things go their way this weekend, they’re hosting a playoff game next week.

“I think a lot about this,” said Cohon. “I re-imagine the Argos and what they can be. I believe they can replicate the success we see across the country.”

Cohon is proud of the CFL he is leaving behind for the next commissioner, whomever he may be. The league is on stronger economic footing than maybe it has ever been. The problems, officiating and quality of play aside, aren’t many from the business end.

But he leaves this Double Blue boondoggle.

“Would I liked to have wrapped a bow around all of this long ago?” asked Cohon. “Absolutely. Would I like to have fixed this? Absolutely. The most important thing is you have an owner (Braley) who is dedicated to finding the right solution.”

On that point, we agreed to disagree and Mark Cohon said thanks and I said goodbye. A gold star and a bow for his time in office: He did almost everything right. He couldn’t fix the impossible in his own hometown.

[doubleblue]

I am sorry to see Mark Cohon leave and hope and trust the BOG will find a suitable replacement as the CFL has had some questionable leaders in the past after Jake Gaudaur. All meaning well but not quite up to snuff IMO. With the League staggering from one crisis after another. The only good thing that would happen every year would be a great Grey Cup game and people would say the on field Product saved the League. Under Cohon the League has seemingly put its money problems behind (except TO) but the on field Product has slipped IMO. Different theories abound, over officiated games, specialized players making defenses tougher, too many young QB's, to big a roster turn over especially the Imports etc. etc. and it may well be its the combination of all these theories. I don't know how to fix it so hopefully the new guy will have some ideas with the backing of the owners.
I was encouraged by Brian Cooper's appearance on PTS with McCown a while back. As a former President of the Argos he knows what it would take to make this franchise successful off the field. Once the Argos get out of the Skydome to a smaller venue where the could have part or all of the concessions and parking etc. he felt they could be profitable again. Hopefully John Tory will stand up to MLSE and make that happen a BMO, after all the city and Governments (our tax dollars) paid for the place to begin with.

[Neely2005]

"This is how sad the state of Toronto football is: The salvation of the Argos is find a way to piggy-back on MLSE and move into BMO Field, which would give them just about the worst stadium in the CFL. They have one of the best stadiums now — only it’s cavernous and empty and without feel of any kind."

That's the key point for me. People have to remember that it's not going to be much fun during September, October and November sitting in the cold and rain/snow watching a game at BMO Field.

[AngeloV]

"This is how sad the state of Toronto football is: The salvation of the Argos is find a way to piggy-back on MLSE and move into BMO Field, which would give them just about the worst stadium in the CFL. They have one of the best stadiums now — only it’s cavernous and empty and without feel of any kind."

That's the key point for me. People have to remember that it's not going to be much fun during September, October and November sitting in the cold and rain/snow watching a game at BMO Field.

It'll be a lot more fun than sitting around sections (or at least rows) of empty seats. Besides, once the grandstands are completed, the fans will be protected from rain, and I don't think that any of the games this season had enough cold to worry about. The temperature in November is rarely below zero, so I don't see a scenario where it would be unbearable.

[Neely2005]

It'll be a lot more fun than sitting around sections (or at least rows) of empty seats. Besides, once the grandstands are completed, the fans will be protected from rain, and I don't think that any of the games this season had enough cold to worry about. The temperature in November is rarely below zero, so I don't see a scenario where it would be unbearable.

It depends on your tolerance to the cold. I usually go to games with my wife and she already told me that she won't be going to games in October and November once/if we move to BMO Field.

[T-Bone]

It depends on your tolerance to the cold. I usually go to games with my wife and she already told me that she won't be going to games in October and November once/if we move to BMO Field.
Premium Suites (http://bmofield.com/experience/premium-suites/)

[AngeloV]

It depends on your tolerance to the cold. I usually go to games with my wife and she already told me that she won't be going to games in October and November once/if we move to BMO Field.

I'm willing to bet she'd be in the minority, and for the majority of fans, it would be a better experience.

[rdavies]

It depends on your tolerance to the cold. I usually go to games with my wife and she already told me that she won't be going to games in October and November once/if we move to BMO Field.October? She might want to see a doctor about circulatory issues.

[Argo57]

It depends on your tolerance to the cold. I usually go to games with my wife and she already told me that she won't be going to games in October and November once/if we move to BMO Field.

Football is much better to watch outdoor, colder temperatures aren't a big deal and rain won't be an issue when the renovation is complete, overall much preferred to the dump that Skydome has become.

[AngeloV]

Football is much better to watch outdoor, colder temperatures aren't a big deal and rain won't be an issue when the renovation is complete, overall much preferred to the dump that Skydome has become.

Funny..somehow I feel that sitting in a completely empty section can be a lot colder than anything Mother Nature can throw at me. Perhaps a slight exaggeration, but not a big one.

[Argo57]

Funny..somehow I feel that sitting in a completely empty section can be a lot colder than anything Mother Nature can throw at me. Perhaps a slight exaggeration, but not a big one.

Very true Angelo,
If the Argonauts end up at BMO and 25k vocal fans are there Skydome will become a distant memory very quickly and the weather won't matter.

[Neely2005]

Premium Suites (http://bmofield.com/experience/premium-suites/)

Not practical or affordable, especially for 2+ Months when you're already paying for Season Tickets.


I'm willing to bet she'd be in the minority, and for the majority of fans, it would be a better experience.

We'll see. I think that people have short memories. The reason that we left Exhibition Place was because of the rain and the cold (and the plumbing) and now we're all clamoring to go back to the Mistake by the Lake.


October? She might want to see a doctor about circulatory issues.

Well actually she said from the end of September. She just had her annual physical and as usual she is in perfect health. The doctor is always amazed by her results. Like most women she just doesn't like the cold. It's physically uncomfortable for her and she can't enjoy the game.


Football is much better to watch outdoor, colder temperatures aren't a big deal and rain won't be an issue when the renovation is complete, overall much preferred to the dump that Skydome has become.

I hope that you're right but I have a feeling that despite its many shortcomings we're going to miss the roof and the warmth of the Rogers Centre.

Not to mention that the elements usually make for lower scoring, less entertaining games.

[Argo57]

Not practical or affordable, especially for 2+ Months when you're already paying for Season Tickets.



We'll see. I think that people have short memories. The reason that we left Exhibition Place was because of the rain and the cold (and the plumbing) and now we're all clamoring to go back to the Mistake by the Lake.





Well actually she said from the end of September. She just had her annual physical and as usual she is in perfect health. The doctor is always amazed by her results. Like most women she just doesn't like the cold. It's physically uncomfortable for her and she can't enjoy the game.



I hope that you're right but I have a feeling that despite its many shortcomings we're going to miss the roof and the warmth of the Rogers Centre.

Not to mention that the elements usually make for lower scoring, less entertaining games.

Exhibition Stadium only the Grandstand covered BMO entire stands covered.
Have enjoyed many great football games outdoors, did you see Holloway, Greer and the gang play at the Ex??

[T-Bone]

Not practical or affordable, especially for 2+ Months when you're already paying for Season Tickets.
Arctic Rigger Coverall (http://www.canada-goose.com/arctic-rigger-coverall-2310M.html)

[Argocister]

Arctic Rigger Coverall (http://www.canada-goose.com/arctic-rigger-coverall-2310M.html)

I like that .... I could buy the Argos emblem and put it on the crest!
I wonder if it comes in size 2X ..... My hubby is the one worried about the cold when the Argos move, so I figure I will get him prepared.

[T-Bone]

I like that .... I could buy the Argos emblem and put it on the crest!
I wonder if it comes in size 2X ..... My hubby is the one worried about the cold when the Argos move, so I figure I will get him prepared.
It does come in 2X and in navy blue.

[1argoholic]

Easy to dress for friggin cold, it's the 5 degrees and pissing rain that is hell. Grey Cup 82 as I've mentioned before was horrible. I for one enjoy not having to dress warm and sit in comfort at the dome. If Rogers gave a rats ass and we somehow filled that cave everyone would love it. Grey Cup 100 was one of the best football experiences ever. The place was rocking.

However it's seems like BMO or bust so if we want to watch our Argos we just have to deal with it. My wife gets cold easily but also has stood on ice in -10 and icefished with me while all bundled up in her Mustang Floater Suit. Those things keep you toasty warm. We've also warn them to cold weather Grey Cups. The pain is hauling all the warm crap on down to the game. The trek from Warsaw has been an eye opener this year as is.

So with a revamped BMO the stands will be covered?

[T-Bone]

So with a revamped BMO the stands will be covered?
All but the north stand which I believe will be removed if renovated to accommodate CFL football (http://bmofield.com/expansion/).

[Neely2005]

Exhibition Stadium only the Grandstand covered BMO entire stands covered.
Have enjoyed many great football games outdoors, did you see Holloway, Greer and the gang play at the Ex??

For me the cold isn't as much of an issue and I agree that outdoor games in the summer are better. Even the Rogers Centre is better with roof open.


Arctic Rigger Coverall (http://www.canada-goose.com/arctic-rigger-coverall-2310M.html)

Lol that costs more than my Season Tickets. It might work but I don't see a Womens Size 0.

[T-Bone]

Lol that costs more than my Season Tickets. It might work but I don't see a Womens Size 0.
It comes in XS and in navy blue.

[Neely2005]

It comes in XS and in navy blue.

From the sizing chart it looks like she would need 2XS. Thanks for posting that though. I'm going to see if I can find something similar that is less expensive.

[T-Bone]

They could use a new person for their social media. This is more embarrassing than getting game days wrong on multiple occasions:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>THIS JUST IN: <a href="https://twitter.com/swayzewaters">@swayzewaters</a> collects his second Player of the Week honour of 2014 - <a href="http://t.co/zTzMSEq9CX">http://t.co/zTzMSEq9CX</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFL?src=hash">#CFL</a> <a href="http://t.co/A685LnzIr1">pic.twitter.com/A685LnzIr1</a></p>&mdash; Toronto Argonauts (@TorontoArgos) <a href="https://twitter.com/TorontoArgos/status/532217611036409856">November 11, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-conversation="none" lang="en"><p><a href="https://twitter.com/TorontoArgos">@TorontoArgos</a> Who is &quot;SWAZYE&quot;??</p>&mdash; Swayze Waters (@swayzewaters) <a href="https://twitter.com/swayzewaters/status/532238823011659776">November 11, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Wow:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-conversation="none" lang="en"><p><a href="https://twitter.com/swayzewaters">@swayzewaters</a> our other kicker, he likes cows.</p>&mdash; Toronto Argonauts (@TorontoArgos) <a href="https://twitter.com/TorontoArgos/status/532246354534596609">November 11, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[ArgoGabe22]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p><a href="https://twitter.com/ARGOLIFER">@ARGOLIFER</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/BMOField">@BMOField</a> Good chatting with you at the game. Working on the deal.</p>&mdash; Mark Cohon (@canadiancommish) <a href="https://twitter.com/canadiancommish/status/532298160400375809">November 11, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[AngeloV]

We'll see. I think that people have short memories. The reason that we left Exhibition Place was because of the rain and the cold (and the plumbing) and now we're all clamoring to go back to the Mistake by the Lake.



I'm going to disagree with you there.

The reason the Argos left Exhibition place was because then Metro Chairman Paul Godfrey sold everyone a bill of goods in which he had different intentions than what were perceived. He used the feelings that the reason the Argos lost the '82 Grey Cup game was because of the rain. I remember being at the rally at city hall a day or 2 after that game, when he got the entire crowd chanting "We want a dome." Whether you want to believe it or not, people often believe what they are told. I know I believed it then. He could care less about the Argos, even then, because as we all know now, his only objective was to try and get an NFL team in Toronto.

[argotom]

I'm going to disagree with you there.

The reason the Argos left Exhibition place was because then Metro Chairman Paul Godfrey sold everyone a bill of goods in which he had different intentions than what were perceived. He used the feelings that the reason the Argos lost the '82 Grey Cup game was because of the rain. I remember being at the rally at city hall a day or 2 after that game, when he got the entire crowd chanting "We want a dome." Whether you want to believe it or not, people often believe what they are told. I know I believed it then. He could care less about the Argos, even then, because as we all know now, his only objective was to try and get an NFL team in Toronto.


Absolutely, I remember that and without doubt the biggest lie perpetrated by Godfrey and his band.[/QUOTE]

[argonaut11xx]

Easy to dress for friggin cold, it's the 5 degrees and pissing rain that is hell. Grey Cup 82 as I've mentioned before was horrible.

OK, oldtimer, i was at the 82' Grey Cup as well. Sitting on those aluminum benches.

The first half wasnt that bad. Yes it was "brisk", but kinda sunny/cloudy, AND the Argo's were doing ok.

The second half, was what you remember, icy cold RAIN, and a Jim Germany Typhoon.

Its a double edged sword, "the MTL model", outdoor stadium, and all the romance that goes along with it , however, in 82 i was 18 so sitting outdoor's wasnt as big of an issue. At almost 50, the idea of a covered stadium is far more appealing.

[Invader]

The Argos could reinforce their brand by including a slogan with their logo in some applications:


ARGOS
Toronto's Football Team
Since 1873


Use more formal terms of reference to portray a prestigious and professional image:

CANADIAN PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL

TORONTO ARGONAUT FOOTBALL CLUB

[ArgoRavi]

Damien Cox is back at the Toronto Star for one column a week. Here is this week's column about the struggles of the Argos and the CFL: http://www.thestar.com/sports/football/2014/11/21/argonauts_have_drifted_into_torontos_sporting_shad ows_cox.html

[rdavies]

As much as I hate to say it, that was a fairly written article.

Months ago, I was pondering the thought that after all the euphoria of a new TV contract and teams becoming profitable and new stadiums on the horizon, that there were some small issues niggling away that need to be corrected. Aside from the big Toronto problem, I think we're starting to see some of the old 90s issues rearing their ugly head and writers going back to kicking the CFL, instead of positive news.

For the CFL leadership it's not time to hit the panic button (aside from Toronto) but it's time to get the CFL ship back on course because she's veering off.

The choice of the next commissioner will be vital. It would be interesting to see Stacey Allister throw her name into the hat. As someone who knows how to build a brand and build stars, she could be a good choice. They already have the behind the scenes football and business people (Copeland) they need that positive figurehead (like Cohon) who can go out and meet the fans and stakeholders and sell the game. The ongoing publicity for a woman running a man's game wouldn't hurt either.

I guess that post was about fixing the league and not the Argos.

[Argo57]

Damien Cox is back at the Toronto Star for one column a week. Here is this week's column about the struggles of the Argos and the CFL: http://www.thestar.com/sports/football/2014/11/21/argonauts_have_drifted_into_torontos_sporting_shad ows_cox.html

Don't disagree with anything Cox says here, overall this CFL season hasn't been very good.
I'm sure we all saw the panoramic stadium shots during last weekends games showing many empty seats, particularly surprising out West. The on field product has lost its pizzazz.
Many good things have happened for this league in the last few years but the league fails to get the word out and capitalize on it, the biggest concern is undoubtedly the Argonaut mess and unfortunately for all us Argo fans I do not see any resolution coming soon.

[Argocister]

Damien Cox is back at the Toronto Star for one column a week. Here is this week's column about the struggles of the Argos and the CFL: http://www.thestar.com/sports/football/2014/11/21/argonauts_have_drifted_into_torontos_sporting_shad ows_cox.html

So it's still rehash .... Except he can update the "salute" to the fans ..... That somehow a leafs gesture enters into the CFL.
And he can update the teams in the final games for the season... Sorry, this just turns me off reading sports columns .... If I keep spouting the same old, same old, everyone will agree with me . You could have written this article last month and the month before that, and the month before that ..... Nothing new here.

[rdavies]

Nothing new here.That is true but I thought the tone seemed sympathetic rather than the usual dismissive venom.

[Argocister]

That is true but I thought the tone seemed sympathetic rather than the usual dismissive venom.
Mmmm .... I will have to re read that with a different perspective.

[Argo57]

Mmmm .... I will have to re read that with a different perspective.

Didn't see anything wrong with what Cox wrote, at least he admitted that he has watched CFL games for years.
I had season seats from 1982-87 with my father and loved the atmosphere at those games (particularly 1982-83), even at high school all my buddies went to Argonaut games and we talked CFL constantly, today doesn't happen.
Game day experience is pitiful in comparison to the old days which surely depresses many long time fans, did Cox need to write this article probably not, but facts are facts, Argonaut attendance is an embarrassment, the team doesn't appear to treat their loyal fans well, we have an owner who floats out a price increase and may or may not react to the backlash that certainly will ensue etc.
Sure the media takes potshots at the team but they have also made themselves an easy target.

[ArgoRavi]

I had season seats from 1982-87 with my father and loved the atmosphere at those games (particularly 1982-83), even at high school all my buddies went to Argonaut games and we talked CFL constantly, today doesn't happen.

This really sticks out for me. How do you get people to be passionate about the Argos as people were back in those days? How do you get the Argos to be part of the "water cooler talk" again?

[AngeloV]

This really sticks out for me. How do you get people to be passionate about the Argos as people were back in those days? How do you get the Argos to be part of the "water cooler talk" again?

I don't think you ever will, Ravi. Sadly, when you see average players in other sports leagues signing 5 year contracts for $82 million, then you see the highest paid CFL player making less than $500k, people will automatically refer to the CFL as minor league. Unfortunately, society has been trained that money means everything today. There are very few people that will go against a trend.

Having said that, you don't need water cooler talk to be successful. Get them into the right environment, and if people enjoy the experience, they will keep coming back. They don't necessarily have to become die hards, but just people that enjoy themselves. You need to have a full stadium for that, which is why 22-25k max is what you want. *cough*BMO*cough*.

[Double Dare]

Every "sport" will never be the same as long as $$$$$$ is the main objective. They are not "sports" anymore, they are a business. Any old codger would say that 1982-83 sucked compared to "the good ole days".

[Argo57]

Every "sport" will never be the same as long as $$$$$$ is the main objective. They are not "sports" anymore, they are a business. Any old codger would say that 1982-83 sucked compared to "the good ole days".

Not necessarily, the Ex was still packed in those days and the football was highly entertaining, the Argos had just implemented the Run and Shoot offence which utilized slot backs and a lot of pre-snap motion.
The league had superb QB's as well (Moon, Holloway, Dewalt, Barnes, Hufnagel, Brock, Clements and Luc Tousignant......ok never mind the last guy) my point is quality football stands up no matter what era, my dad is in his late 70's and talks fondly about various Argonaut teams from the 1950's to the latest World Championship in 2012.

[Fumblitis]

Not necessarily, the Ex was still packed in those days and the football was highly entertaining, the Argos had just implemented the Run and Shoot offence which utilized slot backs and a lot of pre-snap motion.
The league had superb QB's as well (Moon, Holloway, Dewalt, Barnes, Hufnagel, Brock, Clements and Luc Tousignant......ok never mind the last guy) my point is quality football stands up no matter what era, my dad is in his late 70's and talks fondly about various Argonaut teams from the 1950's to the latest World Championship in 2012.World Championship...love it! As bad as the quality of football was in 14 though, I'm really missing FNF and Saturday games.