2014: Semi-Finals

[T-Bone]

http://cfl.assets.mrx.ca/shared/sked_blocks_logos/2012_2/2012_schedule_default2/bc.png vs. http://cfl.assets.mrx.ca/shared/sked_blocks_logos/2012_2/2012_schedule_default2/mtl.png

Eastern Semi-Final
Sunday, November 16, 2014 at 1:00pm EST.
Percival Molson Memorial Stadium. Montreal, QC.

TV: TSN (http://www.tsn.ca/cfl-on-tsn-broadcast-schedule-1.78723) - RDS (http://www.rds.ca/football/lcf)
Video Webcast: TSN Go (http://www.tsn.ca/tv#/) - ESPN3 (http://espn.go.com/watchespn/index/_/type/upcoming/sport/football/search/CFL/)
Radio: BC: TSN 1040 (http://www.tsn.ca/radio/vancouver-1040-i-1410) - MTL: TSN 690 (http://www.tsn.ca/radio/alouettes-on-tsn-690-broadcast-schedule-1.89796)
Audio Webcast: BC: Here (http://player.tsn1040.ca/) - MTL: Here (http://www.tsn.ca/radio/montreal-690-live-stream-1.52959?ot=example.AjaxPageLayout.ot)
Satellite Radio: SiriusXM (http://www.cfl.ca/article/siriusxm-canada-and-cfl-renew-multi-year-broadcast-agreement)

Depth Charts: BC: Here (http://www.bclions.com/page/depthchart) - MTL: Here (http://en.montrealalouettes.com/depthchart/charts/team/9)

Final Score: 17-50


http://cfl.assets.mrx.ca/shared/sked_blocks_logos/2012_2/2012_schedule_default2/ssk.png vs. http://cfl.assets.mrx.ca/shared/sked_blocks_logos/2012_2/2012_schedule_default2/edm.png

Western Semi-Final
Sunday, November 16, 2014 at 4:30pm EST.
Commonwealth Stadium. Edmonton, AB.

TV: TSN (http://www.tsn.ca/cfl-on-tsn-broadcast-schedule-1.78723) - ESPN2 (http://cfl.ca/page/2014-us-broadcast-schedule)
Video Webcast: TSN Go (http://www.tsn.ca/tv#/) - WatchESPN (http://espn.go.com/watchespn/index/_/type/upcoming/sport/football/search/CFL/)
Radio: SSK: CKRM 620 (http://www.620ckrm.com/sportscage-home) - EDM: CHED 630 (http://www.630ched.com/eskimos/)
Audio Webcast: SSK: Here (http://www.620ckrm.com/listenlive.php) - EDM: Here (http://player.630ched.com/)
Satellite Radio: SiriusXM (http://www.cfl.ca/article/siriusxm-canada-and-cfl-renew-multi-year-broadcast-agreement)

Depth Charts: SSK: Here (http://www.riderville.com/depthchart/list/team/4) - EDM: Here (http://www.esks.com/page/depth-charts)

Final Score: 10-18

[gilthethrill]

I am not a big fan of the Cross over, but this year I hope BC pounds Montreal, which should not be hard with Crompton, who showed his true colours last week at the helm, then slap Hamiton around in the East Final.

[paulwoods13]

I don't want to see the owner rewarded, so go Als!

[gilthethrill]

I don't want to see the owner rewarded, so go Als!

I never considered that Paul..but you have to admit, Braley is a good CFL team owner....for the Lions! :)

[AngeloV]

I don't want to see the owner rewarded, so go Als!

Big thumbs up to this comment. Can't wait for you know who to respond to this.

[ArgoRavi]

There is no way that I want to see the Lions represent the east in the Grey Cup. Go Als this weekend!

[Double Dare]

Als baby!!!

[Argocister]

I will cheer on the larks as well, to send the lions packing......It will then be a good rematch game for the east final at THF .. Now it will be interesting to see who ..... The birds or the pussies ..... has the best weapons to beat either Edmonton or Calgary .... As I think that will be the two teams meeting in the West final.

[ArgoRavi]

I will cheer on the larks as well, to send the lions packing......It will then be a good rematch game for the east final at THF

And the East Final is already sold out.

[Wobbler]

A crossover team has never won their semi-final match, and it would be fun to see that change. Also, the idea of BC representing Eastern Canada amuses me. I hope they go all the way!

[argofandave]

Edmonton beat Winnipeg in the "East" Semi-Final in 2008 and BC beat Hamilton in 2009 so the crossover team has won the semi-final twice.

[Wobbler]

I stand corrected. Thanks!

[Double Dare]

I hope the Wheat Farmers lose. The big question is, is Reilly ready?

[ArgoRavi]

I hope the Wheat Farmers lose. The big question is, is Reilly ready?

It shouldn't matter who is at QB for the Esks. I said this on Twitter - and the Edmonton Sun picked it up and said that it came from an Esks fan (lol) - but if the Esks can't beat a 41 year-old Kerry Joseph, they don't deserve to go any further. This isn't 2007 and the Esks' defence should cause all kinds of havoc for Joseph and the Roughrider offence.

[OV Argo]

BC today = has to be on of the most embarassing ***** the bed performances in a CFL play-off game i have ever witnessed.

So much for a "dominant" CFL defence in this year of the supposed great defences (more like lots of mediocre, same old, predictable offences).

Mediocre Kevin Glenn running a same ole CFL pass offence (their run game was doing things early) É - what did you expectÉ

time for good ole boy Wally to be put out to pasture there and punt good ole puppet Benny out of town too - what a joke !

[Argo57]

BC today = has to be on of the most embarassing shyte the bed performances in a CFL play-off game i have ever witnessed.

So much for a "dominant" CFL defence in this year of the supposed great defences (more like lots of mediocre, same old, predictable offences).

Mediocre Kevin Glenn running a same ole CFL pass offence (their run game was doing things early) É - what did you expectÉ

time for good ole boy Wally to be put out to pasture there and punt good ole puppet Benny out of town too - what a joke !

Punt Glenn out of town as well, the guy disappears in big games.

[ArgoRavi]

Wally ain't going anywhere but will he have the guts to clean house of his buddies in B.C.? We know Braley isn't going to force the issue.

[paulwoods13]

So much for a "dominant" CFL defence in this year of the supposed great defences (more like lots of mediocre, same old, predictable offences).

I agree with your assessment of the Lions D, OV, but I completely disagree with "same old, predictable" offences. Predictable, yes. Same old, no? There has not been a year in my memory where the offences have been this boring and ineffective, so it's a brand new phenomenon, not the same old thing. Sadly.

[ArgoRavi]

I agree with your assessment of the Lions D, OV, but I completely disagree with "same old, predictable" offences. Predictable, yes. Same old, no? There has not been a year in my memory where the offences have been this boring and ineffective, so it's a brand new phenomenon, not the same old thing. Sadly.

Here is a very good thread on Lionbackers.com about the decline in offence this season: http://lionbackers.com/bc_lions/viewtopic.php?t=27902&f=2

Offensive yardage dropped by 6% which does not fully explain the larger drop in offensive scoring. An increase in holding and illegal blocking penalties may have been the biggest factors in the decline in scoring this season.

[paulwoods13]

A 6% drop in yardage does not remotely capture the ineptitude of offences this season, IMO. The quarterbacks are, for the most part, far below the level of the 1980s, '90s and 2000s (and I doubt that will change because so many of the type of guys who used to come up here are now coveted by the NFL), and the defences are way more proficient at taking away big/exciting offensive plays. IMO the league needs to make some tangible rules changes to open up the offences again. I am watching today's semifinals but far less closely than I used to when my team was not involved, and for a time I tuned away from the Mtl-BC laugher to see what was going on in the (much closer) NFL games on at the same time.

[gilthethrill]

Montreal is proving that you do not require a QB to win in the CFL...and how about that Kevin Glenn?????

Very concerning looking at all the empty seats in Montreal today. Some interesting views on the Alouettes forum regarding their ownership.

[gilthethrill]

Someone tell me again how did Edmonton DB Alonzo Lawrence not make the 2014 edition of the Toronto Argonauts???

[Argo57]

A 6% drop in yardage does not remotely capture the ineptitude of offences this season, IMO. The quarterbacks are, for the most part, far below the level of the 1980s, '90s and 2000s (and I doubt that will change because so many of the type of guys who used to come up here are now coveted by the NFL), and the defences are way more proficient at taking away big/exciting offensive plays. IMO the league needs to make some tangible rules changes to open up the offences again. I am watching today's semifinals but far less closely than I used to when my team was not involved, and for a time I tuned away from the Mtl-BC laugher to see what was going on in the (much closer) NFL games on at the same time.

Defensive schemes are much more aggressive and "attack" oriented, holding penalties are much more stringently called these days, makes for some boring crappy games which we have seen today in particular.
Don't have a lot of interest in the playoffs this year.

[Argo57]

Someone tell me again how did Edmonton DB Alonzo Lawrence not make the 2014 edition of the Toronto Argonauts???

I also found that move curious when it happened, Lawrence was on of the better newcomers in 2013.

[Argo57]

Montreal is proving that you do not require a QB to win in the CFL...and how about that Kevin Glenn?????

Very concerning looking at all the empty seats in Montreal today. Some interesting views on the Alouettes forum regarding their ownership.

I know it is bitter cold in Edmonton but their stadium looked half empty today as well.

[ArgoGabe22]

Someone tell me again how did Edmonton DB Alonzo Lawrence not make the 2014 edition of the Toronto Argonauts???

Interesting. I bet Jones decided to release him as assistant GM, since it seemed like he had control of his defence but was picked up soon by EDM. I guess Jones realized that Lawrence can play. I doubt the Argos would release him if Jones wanted to use Lawrence on the defence.

Greg Alexandre with a sack. Remember him? Surprised that he's considered for team rookie of the year nomination. Could have used him with injury to Laing.

[Double Dare]

Braley's first love bit the biscuit big time. Glad that BC didn't win an EAST semi! Reilly proved that he has big balls compared to Durant ... Durant is a candy a$$ ... not ready for a (BIG) game mentally. Hope the Wheat farming fans dump cow dung on his lawn (or him). Glad the Mucus Riders are out!

[ArgoRavi]

Interesting. I bet Jones decided to release him as assistant GM, since it seemed like he had control of his defence but was picked up soon by EDM. I guess Jones realized that Lawrence can play. I doubt the Argos would release him if Jones wanted to use Lawrence on the defence.

Greg Alexandre with a sack. Remember him? Surprised that he's considered for team rookie of the year nomination. Could have used him with injury to Laing.

Chris Jones did release Gregory Alexandre a couple of years ago but Lawrence wasn't released until after this preseason.

[OV Argo]

A 6% drop in yardage does not remotely capture the ineptitude of offences this season, IMO. The quarterbacks are, for the most part, far below the level of the 1980s, '90s and 2000s (and I doubt that will change because so many of the type of guys who used to come up here are now coveted by the NFL), and the defences are way more proficient at taking away big/exciting offensive plays. IMO the league needs to make some tangible rules changes to open up the offences again. I am watching today's semifinals but far less closely than I used to when my team was not involved, and for a time I tuned away from the Mtl-BC laugher to see what was going on in the (much closer) NFL games on at the same time.

CFL offensive coaches are, for the most part, an ultra predictable, boring clique of same old thinkers - same standard look on offence across the league: QB always in shot-gun, one basic run play out of standard 5 pack look, little to no applied or power run game - little to no sweeps, counters , blasts up the middle; .mostly dink & dunk passes with OCs too gutless to air the ball out down field often, no real use of a fullback or tight end (other than the very limited/ slight return combo H-back set we see a few times a game from some teams). SORRY - there is your main & over-riding culprit for some terrrible CFL offences now; weak QBing can be a factor too, and maybe along with some slightly better Ds on display (sorry again - nothing even remotely close to a "dominant" defence now) - but the !ST factor i listed is IMO 99% of the problem here.

[ArgoGabe22]

Chris Jones did release Gregory Alexandre a couple of years ago but Lawrence wasn't released until after this preseason.

You're right Ravi. I was thinking of Josh Gatlin, who was released last mid season and then picked up by EDM.

[paulwoods13]

CFL offensive coaches are, for the most part, an ultra predictable, boring clique of same old thinkers - same standard look on offence across the league: QB always in shot-gun, one basic run play out of standard 5 pack look, little to no applied or power run game - little to no sweeps, counters , blasts up the middle; .mostly dink & dunk passes with OCs too gutless to air the ball out down field often, no real use of a fullback or tight end (other than the very limited/ slight return combo H-back set we see a few times a game from some teams). SORRY - there is your main & over-riding culprit for some terrrible CFL offences now; weak QBing can be a factor too, and maybe along with some slightly better Ds on display (sorry again - nothing even remotely close to a "dominant" defence now) - but the !ST factor i listed is IMO 99% of the problem here.

And how is this general approach (always shotgun, few fullbacks or tight ends, little emphasis on the run, no power sweeps, etc.) any different than what we had from the mid-1980s through the mid-2000s? And yet offences were far more fun to watch then.

[ArgoRavi]

And how is this general approach (always shotgun, few fullbacks or tight ends, little emphasis on the run, no power sweeps, etc.) any different than what we had from the mid-1980s through the mid-2000s? And yet offences were far more fun to watch then.

Also, if those offences were so ineffective, why has the NFL copied them?

[Rich]

And how is this general approach (always shotgun, few fullbacks or tight ends, little emphasis on the run, no power sweeps, etc.) any different than what we had from the mid-1980s through the mid-2000s? And yet offences were far more fun to watch then.

You just proved OV's point. What could be more stale and predictable than an offensive mindset that dates back to the mid-1980s?


Also, if those offences were so ineffective, why has the NFL copied them?

Have they? I see tight ends lining up in the NFL at least 80%-90% of the time.

[OV Argo]

You just proved OV's point. What could be more stale and predictable than an offensive mindset that dates back to the mid-1980s?



Have they? I see tight ends lining up in the NFL at least 80%-90% of the time.

Big target, great hands receiving tight ends are huge features of a lot of NFL offences now.

Totally lost concept on the CFL offensive "minds" now though; but the good ole boys must be right, eh Ravi & Paul ? - a tight end as a regular part of a CFL offence now just couldn't work or be of any value - both as a receiving threat and a blocking force for the run game (what run game?). Lack of variety or diversity in CFL offences now i find just sad or lame or very questionable - but - to each his own opinion. And I'm old enough to remember players like Mel Profit, Herm Harrison, Peter Dalla Riva, Tony Gabriel; and then the tight end morphed into a mostly slot position with big, tough & good hands slots like DiPietro or Elgaard as very effective parts of CFL offences. A player like John Delahunt (receving star in Junior ball up here and then a tight end in Div. I ball) with Ottawa could be a real force for their offence IMO is he was used every down as a slot back and/or tight end; but i guess they prefer the faster, no hands receivers they regularly employed this year = just brutal.

The Argos have a couple of very good smallish, speedy, great YAC yards receivers in Owens & Durie; they have had some good downfield pure receiver types too - like Inman, or Chiles or Watt at times perhaps; they might be wise to add a big, tough, great hands possession receiver (could line-up some both as slot or tight end); Robinson & Dupuis did some things in a very limited role, but not sure they are every down receiver types (and a true fullback just isn't used much anymore in the CFL now anyways); like to see the Argos add a bigger, solid hands type receiever as a regular part of their offence (love to see them be able to draft 6-5 Addison Richards (Regina) this coming CFL draft: or sign a good US college ball TE that the NFL has over-looked). Wayyyyyyyyyyyyy more diversity on offence please - add a big, tough receiver too the mix and get a big power back (guess this brain trust had never heard of Jerome Messam while he was sitting around availablle for free for weeks as a FA ???) too as a compliment to wayyyyyyy more ground game on offence too.

[Wobbler]

Messam only had 166 more rushing yards than Ricky Ray this season, so I'm not sure we really missed the boat there, OV.

I share your appreciation for experimentation on offense, though. Our O has been described as complex, but it rarely looked that way this year. In terms of execution, I can't remember the last time one of our receivers was penalized for a pick play, which suggests to me that we weren't trying hard enough to "rub" someone open. Our 2014 "receiverpocalypse" meant that we had to dumb things down, but pushing the envelope with our backup receivers might have been a good answer.

[Double Dare]

but pushing the envelope with our backup receivers might have been a good answer. I definitely say YA.

[OV Argo]

Messam only had 166 more rushing yards than Ricky Ray this season, so I'm not sure we really missed the boat there, OV.

I share your appreciation for experimentation on offense, though. Our O has been described as complex, but it rarely looked that way this year. In terms of execution, I can't remember the last time one of our receivers was penalized for a pick play, which suggests to me that we weren't trying hard enough to "rub" someone open. Our 2014 "receiverpocalypse" meant that we had to dumb things down, but pushing the envelope with our backup receivers might have been a good answer.

Not sure what you mean there with the irrelevant comparison to Ray's rushing numbers - Messam never played full-time at RB for the Riders, but when he did play some, he flashed some of his old form - a big, bruising tailback with impressive speed & moves for such a big back; could have been a nice compliment to a back like Slaton - that's maybe IF the offence was interested in lots of or a diverse ground game. And the point still is anyways - Messam was available for free, he's a former CFL 1000 yd. rusher with serious skills, and maybe he might have helped the team; but maybe we shouldn\t be questioning anything to do with team decisions here ? - just give Barker & co. a free pass?

[gilthethrill]

I compare Messam with Cory Boyd..except Canadian...a big bruisng back yes, but perhaps lacks in blocking capability. Would he have fit in the the Argo offence better than Boyd?

[Argocister]

I compare Messam with Cory Boyd..except Canadian...a big bruisng back yes, but perhaps lacks in blocking capability. Would he have fit in the the Argo offence better than Boyd?

That's one thing I learned of the Boyd experience. ..... Now all RBs are judged by .... can they block?

[Argo57]

Messam only had 166 more rushing yards than Ricky Ray this season, so I'm not sure we really missed the boat there, OV.

I share your appreciation for experimentation on offense, though. Our O has been described as complex, but it rarely looked that way this year. In terms of execution, I can't remember the last time one of our receivers was penalized for a pick play, which suggests to me that we weren't trying hard enough to "rub" someone open. Our 2014 "receiverpocalypse" meant that we had to dumb things down, but pushing the envelope with our backup receivers might have been a good answer.

You hear the "complex" offence description from many organization which to me is the coaching staff trying to sound like their schemes are better and or revolutionary compared to other teams, to me complete bullshit, watch any game and most CFL teams plays look quite similar. It comes down to personnel and execution period!
Not sure about the Argos "dumbing" down their offence but one telecast caught Ricky Ray calling a "button hook on two" to which Darvin Adams ran the wrong route.......true story!!

[ArgoRavi]

That's one thing I learned of the Boyd experience. ..... Now all RBs are judged by .... can they block?

You have to be the complete package to be a tailback in this league these days. In other words you have to be able to run, catch passes out of the backfield and block. Messam is a good runner but I am not sure that he is so good at the other two elements.

[OV Argo]

You have to be the complete package to be a tailback in this league these days. In other words you have to be able to run, catch passes out of the backfield and block. Messam is a good runner but I am not sure that he is so good at the other two elements.

So - the likes of Slaton, Grigsby, Chevron Walker, Stefan Logan, White for the Esks, or any of the Als tailbacks this year are very good all around CFL RBs who can block very well and catch too ??? - rubbish-
more like they are decent at 2 of 3 of those criteria at best, and maybe very good at one (like Logan); they do have American passports though which help get them CFL playing time.

[Argo57]

So - the likes of Slaton, Grigsby, Chevron Walker, Stefan Logan, White for the Esks, or any of the Als tailbacks this year are very good all around CFL RBs who can block very well and catch too ??? - rubbish-
more like they are decent at 2 of 3 of those criteria at best, and maybe very good at one (like Logan); they do have American passports though which help get them CFL playing time.

In truth OV all of those RB's you listed have glaring deficiencies in one or more parts of their game but they are American.
Watching the Penn St - Illinois game today the announcer seemed shocked that the Penn St starting RB Akeel Lynch was born in Toronto to paraphrase "Lynch is a pretty good running back who was born in Toronto, not where you would expect a running back to come from".

[Wobbler]

Not sure what you mean there with the irrelevant comparison to Ray's rushing numbers - Messam never played full-time at RB for the Riders, but when he did play some, he flashed some of his old form - a big, bruising tailback with impressive speed & moves for such a big back; could have been a nice compliment to a back like Slaton - that's maybe IF the offence was interested in lots of or a diverse ground game. And the point still is anyways - Messam was available for free...
My point was that he wasn't very productive. That's not surprising given that he wasn't an every down back and only played 11 games, but he didn't help Saskatchewan very much and he wouldn't have helped us much either. Sure he could have been a interesting change-of-pace back. Despite his weak blocking and poor receiving ability, he could have helped our offense a little. But the reason that I'm not upset that we didn't sign him is that he is useless on special teams. He might have been "free" in a sense, but he would have cost us a roster spot currently occupied by a backup who *can* contribute on special teams. Trying Messam would have been an interesting experiment (like the Dwight Anderson and Alex Suber experiments), but I disagree that failing to bring him in was a sign of foolishness.

[ArgoRavi]

So - the likes of Slaton, Grigsby, Chevron Walker, Stefan Logan, White for the Esks, or any of the Als tailbacks this year are very good all around CFL RBs who can block very well and catch too ??? - rubbish-
more like they are decent at 2 of 3 of those criteria at best, and maybe very good at one (like Logan); they do have American passports though which help get them CFL playing time.

Okay, maybe I should have said that you have to be able to do all three well to play in this Argo offence and, yes, Slaton is strong enough in all three of those areas. Messam would not have been a good fit and it has nothing to do with his birth certificate.

[AngeloV]

I compare Messam with Cory Boyd..except Canadian...a big bruisng back yes, but perhaps lacks in blocking capability. Would he have fit in the the Argo offence better than Boyd?

He also doesn't catch the ball very well. Boyd, did have good hands, just not a great route runner.

[OV Argo]

My point was that he wasn't very productive. That's not surprising given that he wasn't an every down back and only played 11 games, but he didn't help Saskatchewan very much and he wouldn't have helped us much either. Sure he could have been a interesting change-of-pace back. Despite his weak blocking and poor receiving ability, he could have helped our offense a little. But the reason that I'm not upset that we didn't sign him is that he is useless on special teams. He might have been "free" in a sense, but he would have cost us a roster spot currently occupied by a backup who *can* contribute on special teams. Trying Messam would have been an interesting experiment (like the Dwight Anderson and Alex Suber experiments), but I disagree that failing to bring him in was a sign of foolishness.

Just FYI - Messam did have19 carries for 126 yards in the one game where the Riders have gave him a real shot / lots of opportunity .

[paulwoods13]

Totally lost concept on the CFL offensive "minds" now though; but the good ole boys must be right, eh Ravi & Paul ? - a tight end as a regular part of a CFL offence now just couldn't work or be of any value - both as a receiving threat and a blocking force for the run game (what run game?). Lack of variety or diversity in CFL offences now i find just sad or lame or very questionable - but - to each his own opinion.

I agree tight ends would work in the CFL, and I'd like to see them return as a regular part of the package. That said, it is a fact that the current approach of one back, five receivers, no TEs or FBs has been in vogue for about three decades, and for about two and a half decades it was entertaining as hell. The fact it is dull now has a lot more causes than "ultra predictable, boring clique of same old thinkers."

[paulwoods13]

You just proved OV's point. What could be more stale and predictable than an offensive mindset that dates back to the mid-1980s?

Was it stale and predictable in the mid-1990s? Or the mid-2000s? The same mindset was in effect then. I found it entertaining.

[AngeloV]

I think in the last 15 years, we've had 2 coaches try and be "different" on offence in the CFL. John Huard and Mike Kelly. Anyone remember how their offences performed? Huard and the Argos with their TE and run oriented offence scored a huge victory in their first game, and once game tape was available, they got killed every game. Kelly's team was also easily shut down.

[doubleblue]

I agree tight ends would work in the CFL, and I'd like to see them return as a regular part of the package. That said, it is a fact that the current approach of one back, five receivers, no TEs or FBs has been in vogue for about three decades, and for about two and a half decades it was entertaining as hell. The fact it is dull now has a lot more causes than "ultra predictable, boring clique of same old thinkers."

I agree 100%. I would love to see a Coach with some imagination look for a big TE/RB who could be a difference maker on offence. Run for the tough yards, block for the smaller RB and QB and make those tough over the middle catches plus YAC yards afterwards. I'm not talking the Zander Robinson's of the world, but an athlete like Mike Sellers of the Bombers, who might have been the last type of player I have in mind. It would probably have to be an Import as these guys don't seem to grow on trees.

[1argoholic]

Well Barker did draft that Canadian TE from Rice who's now plays for Seattle. The guy the Jays also drafted. He's obviously a pretty good athlete. Oh his name escapes me.

[Argo57]

Well Barker did draft that Canadian TE from Rice who's now plays for Seattle. The guy the Jays also drafted. He's obviously a pretty good athlete. Oh his name escapes me.

Luke Willson

[ArgoRavi]

I think in the last 15 years, we've had 2 coaches try and be "different" on offence in the CFL. John Huard and Mike Kelly. Anyone remember how their offences performed? Huard and the Argos with their TE and run oriented offence scored a huge victory in their first game, and once game tape was available, they got killed every game. Kelly's team was also easily shut down.

Don Sutherin also tried to use an old-style offence at the beginning of the '97 season, with the use of tight ends, but it failed miserably on the way to a 2-16 season for the Ticats. If we want to look at CIS, Gary Etcheverry went back to a 1960s style Canadian football offence a couple of years ago at Ottawa U. and that was nothing short of a disaster.

[OV Argo]

Don Sutherin also tried to use an old-style offence at the beginning of the '97 season, with the use of tight ends, but it failed miserably on the way to a 2-16 season for the Ticats. If we want to look at CIS, Gary Etcheverry went back to a 1960s style Canadian football offence a couple of years ago at Ottawa U. and that was nothing short of a disaster.

NOBODY has tried a traditional single TE set as a regular CFL offence in decades - that is all = mention of Huard's limited double TE set or other limited use of some double TE sets (often an O-linemen in there or a fullback = not a real tight end) in a few CFL offences over the past couple of decades are basically IMO totally irrelevant to this discussion.

You like ALL offences in a 9 team running the same basic offence = good for you; i happen to like some variety or diversity in football - and that COULD include use of a real tight end set, a fullback or a double back offence with LOTS of ground game; NOT happening when same thinking good ole boy coaches are all who are hired to run CFL offences. Gotta love good ole boy current CFL offences with dink & dunk passes, tons of dropped passes, one basic run play and waggle off-sides galore though. LOL

[Rich]

Was it stale and predictable in the mid-1990s? Or the mid-2000s? The same mindset was in effect then. I found it entertaining.

That was then, this is now. Everything become stale and predictable over time, unless it changes. Defences find more and more ways to beat a system they've seen for 30 years. It's a cyclical thing. Judging from this year's offensive display, CFL good ol' boy groupthink has run it's course.

I'd like to see somebody try the pistol formation next year, I think it could work pretty well in this league.

[paulwoods13]

That was then, this is now. Everything become stale and predictable over time, unless it changes. Defences find more and more ways to beat a system they've seen for 30 years. It's a cyclical thing. Judging from this year's offensive display, CFL good ol' boy groupthink has run it's course.

I think groupthink accounts for part of the problem, but not all of it. There are many causes, including expanded rosters with more defensive specialists and substitutions, fewer traditional "CFL-style" QBs and receivers available, clock rule changes that have caused there to be fewer snaps in a game than 30 years ago, etc. We may be at a point where some serious rule modifications are needed to help the offences. I don't see any likelihood that we will be able to attract a lot of great tight ends to Canada, since TE is becoming increasingly important in the NFL. We could attract great RBs because their value in the NFL has never been lower, but in a three-down world I doubt any team will become run-dominant the way most teams were in the (much less entertaining, IMO) 1960s and '70s. But maybe someone will try it again.

[Rich]

I don't see any likelihood that we will be able to attract a lot of great tight ends to Canada, since TE is becoming increasingly important in the NFL. We could attract great RBs because their value in the NFL has never been lower

I don't understand this logic. NFL rosters usually carry 4 or 5 TEs and 4 or 5 (sometimes more) RBs. And regardless of position, there are many more very good football players coming out of college than there are open roster spots in the NFL. Why would it be any harder to get a very good TE than RB?

[paulwoods13]

I don't understand this logic. NFL rosters usually carry 4 or 5 TEs and 4 or 5 (sometimes more) RBs. And regardless of position, there are many more very good football players coming out of college than there are open roster spots in the NFL. Why would it be any harder to get a very good TE than RB?

Because there are more good RBs than TEs, IMO, and because the NFL is now a pass-first league where RBs are not as highly valued as they used to be. (I don't think most NFL rosters have four or five TEs or RBs, BTW. Maybe if you include practice rosters but I think the norm is to dress three of each.)