Argos about to lose another coach [Archive]

ArgoRavi

11-30-2014, 02:01 PM

Gary Lawless just said on TSN that Jason Maas will be leaving the Argos to become offensive coordinator of the Ottawa RedBlacks. The Argos continue to do a fine job of developing coaches for the rest of the league.

doubleblue

11-30-2014, 03:37 PM

Jason deserves a shot at being OC. Maybe it could have been with the Argos instead of Marcus Brady, who I guess is Milanovich's pick, as Maas was more of a package deal with Ricky Ray coming in from Edmonton. I don't see Rick Campbell lasting long in Ottawa unless there is a big turn around in 2015 which would make things iffy for the Assistants going forward after 2015. However, experience counts and Jason should be ready to step into the OC role.

Scott had said he expected all his Assistants back next year, but things change especially when a promotion is there. I wouldn't be disappointed if a few other Argo Assistants moved on as IMO some of the replacements couldn't wear the shoes of the guys that left last year.

gilthethrill

11-30-2014, 04:24 PM

Good for Jason for getting a promotion. I recall Damon Allen stating he hoped to coach in the CFL some time ago...why has he not secured a job in the coaching ranks?

ArgoRavi

11-30-2014, 05:01 PM

Good for Jason for getting a promotion. I recall Damon Allen stating he hoped to coach in the CFL some time ago...why has he not secured a job in the coaching ranks?

Damon wasn't willing to start as anything but a head coach.

ArgoGabe22

11-30-2014, 05:59 PM

With Burris I was thinking Ottawa would hire Cortez as OC and maybe Benevedes as DC. Beneveds still has 3 years on his contract I believe so may wait it out like LaPolice or may not like Tim Burke. Wouldn't be surpised if a CIS team went after Benevedes but when York tried a few years ago, he said he wasn't interested in arranging buses and ordering jerseys.

ArgoRavi

11-30-2014, 08:05 PM

With Burris I was thinking Ottawa would hire Cortez as OC and maybe Benevedes as DC. Beneveds still has 3 years on his contract I believe so may wait it out like LaPolice or may not like Tim Burke. Wouldn't be surpised if a CIS team went after Benevedes but when York tried a few years ago, he said he wasn't interested in arranging buses and ordering jerseys.

Can Benevides function outside of Wally's world? The jury is out on that question IMO. BTW, Wally's extension for Benevides would have only taken effect in the next couple of weeks as per Lionbackers. In other words, Wally got rid of Benevides before the extension took effect so he isn't on the hook for it. I suspect that BabaBooey Benevides will replace Lapolice on TSN next year as he got an audition this weekend which I think he passed.

argotom

11-30-2014, 11:06 PM

Sure the loss of the various coaches last and possibly this year was big, however this does not compare with the loss of one of our own Zach C.
Definitely the QB star of the future.

ArgoRavi

11-30-2014, 11:12 PM

Sure the loss of the various coaches last and possibly this year was big, however this does not compare with the loss of one of our own Zach C.
Definitely the QB star of the future.

We'll see. Harris may turn to be better. Time will tell.

jerrym

11-30-2014, 11:19 PM

We'll see. Harris may turn to be better. Time will tell.

Harris's performance at the end of the season shows a considerable upgrade over last year, so I agree that he may end up surpassing Zach. Its good to also see that the league now has a wealth of good and potentially good young qbs and that has ended its old curse of not developing its own qbs.

Rich

11-30-2014, 11:40 PM

Harris's performance at the end of the season shows a considerable upgrade over last year, so I agree that he may end up surpassing Zach. Its good to also see that the league now has a wealth of good and potentially good young qbs and that has ended its old curse of not developing its own qbs.

Lets see Harris get anywhere near Collaros' record of 13-4 as a CFL starter before we consider the two players to be equivalent in any way.

Double Dare

12-01-2014, 06:38 AM

Sure the loss of the various coaches last and possibly this year was big, however this does not compare with the loss of one of our own Zach C.
Definitely the QB star of the future. Is there a punch line to this joke?

paulwoods13

12-01-2014, 06:45 AM

Lets see Harris get anywhere near Collaros' record of 13-4 as a CFL starter before we consider the two players to be equivalent in any way.

Just for the record it is actually 14-8 (5-2 last year, 9-6 this year including the Grey Cup and EF).

Stouffvillain

12-01-2014, 09:42 AM

If Maas leaves and is successful as an OC it is also a good thing for the Argos. When you are trying to attract quality assistants having a long list of position coaches and coordinators that are able to get promotions elsewhere after working here is a great selling feature for the Argos. I would say that young coaches looking to become OC's would see that as a big plus. Replace quality coaching with quality coaching.

doubleblue

12-01-2014, 01:45 PM

If Maas leaves and is successful as an OC it is also a good thing for the Argos. When you are trying to attract quality assistants having a long list of position coaches and coordinators that are able to get promotions elsewhere after working here is a great selling feature for the Argos. I would say that young coaches looking to become OC's would see that as a big plus. Replace quality coaching with quality coaching.

Sounds good in theory but I don't know if Milanovich actually replaced quality coaching with quality coaching for the 2014 season. Maybe the quality coaching pool isn't that deep. So it will probably be more of OV's old boy club moves.

argotom

12-01-2014, 09:03 PM

We'll see. Harris may turn to be better. Time will tell.

Yes time does not fail.
However so far what Harris has shown in the limited meaningful appearances is not encouraging to say the least.
Definitely not in the same league as Zach.

ArgoRavi

12-01-2014, 11:50 PM

Yes time does not fail.
However so far what Harris has shown in the limited meaningful appearances is not encouraging to say the least.
Definitely not in the same league as Zach.

Well, Harris is 1-0 as a starter and threw for almost 300 yards in that start so I would hardly say that is "not encouraging", AT. I will concede that he needs to show that he can start and win regularly but it may be some time before he gets that chance.

argolio

12-02-2014, 03:39 PM

Congrats to Jason Maas. I wish him success, except against the Argos of course.

Time for this ridiculous pining for Collaros to stop. He is now the enemy. If you want to cheer for him, become a Ticat fan.

argotom

12-02-2014, 11:11 PM

Congrats to Jason Maas. I wish him success, except against the Argos of course.

Time for this ridiculous pining for Collaros to stop. He is now the enemy. If you want to cheer for him, become a Ticat fan.

Lighten up!
He would look much better in Double Blue.
Especially now with Ricky's major operation that will take several months to rehab and I read one account that he may not be ready for camp next year?

argolio

12-02-2014, 11:49 PM

Lighten up!
He would look much better in Double Blue.
Especially now with Ricky's major operation that will take several months to rehab and I read one account that he may not be ready for camp next year?.....and more pining.

Fumblitis

12-03-2014, 07:44 AM

Well, Harris is 1-0 as a starter and threw for almost 300 yards in that start so I would hardly say that is "not encouraging", AT. I will concede that he needs to show that he can start and win regularly but it may be some time before he gets that chance.If I were Milo, I'd be looking for ways to give Trevor Harris more reps. With Ricky's age, shoulder issues, and lack of mobility, he's approaching that age where he's going to decline. I liked Trevor's mobility but then again I'm not a huge fan of pocket passers.

paulwoods13

12-03-2014, 09:38 AM

With Ricky's age, shoulder issues, and lack of mobility, he's approaching that age where he's going to decline.

Just like Calvillo did?

Fumblitis

12-03-2014, 09:43 AM

Just like Calvillo did?I guess time will tell if Ricky follows in Calvillo's steps.

doubleblue

12-03-2014, 10:51 AM

Well for my 2 cents I would rate Zach ahead of Trevor at this time. They would have made a nice one two punch going forward if Ricky hadn't been available, as they bring a different game to the table so to speak. But Trevor is next up for the Argos now and should see some more playing in 2015 especially in the early going, which shouldn't be a bad thing. Gale seems to be more of a Zach type but maybe not with the throwing accuracy, but that is yet to be determined until he plays more.

AngeloV

12-03-2014, 12:53 PM

Gale seems to be more of a Zach type but maybe not with the throwing accuracy, but that is yet to be determined until he plays more.

I still don't see where you see Gale as a Zach type. He has not shown any scrambling ability really (in the limited pre-season chances he has had). I don't see him as having escapability like other quick QB's we have seen in the past (Garcia, Printers, Collaros and of cours Flutie). He's a much bigger QB than Collaros, and from everything I have seen and heard about him, is a pocket style QB with a big arm.

In looking at his NFL pro day results, he ran a 5.01 in the 40. Hardly the makings of a Collaros type QB.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=103781&draftyear=2013&genpos=QB

Stouffvillain

12-03-2014, 02:19 PM

Well a quick look at Gale's bio on the Argo's website says that he rushed 69 time for -56 yards in his last college season (2012).

2011 66 times for 97 yards,
2010 52 times for 66 yards
2009 53 times for -35 yards.

I think that settles the debate about how much he compares to Collaros (in terms of rushing) who ran for 246 yards last year with the Argos and 328 this season.

Stouffvillain

12-03-2014, 02:34 PM

AngeloV

12-03-2014, 03:45 PM

Well a quick look at Gale's bio on the Argo's website says that he rushed 69 time for -56 yards in his last college season (2012).

2011 66 times for 97 yards,
2010 52 times for 66 yards
2009 53 times for -35 yards.

I think that settles the debate about how much he compares to Collaros (in terms of rushing) who ran for 246 yards last year with the Argos and 328 this season.

You can't take the stats too seriously. NCAA stats count sacks as negative rushing yards.

His actual rushing stats (not including losses/sacks):
2011: 66 for 233 (3.5 avg)
2010: 54 for 204 (3.7 avg)
2009: 53 for 127 (2.4 avg)

Any way you slice it, not exactly a great runner. Let's not forget, he's 6'2" and 230lbs.

Stouffvillain

12-03-2014, 03:56 PM

You can't take the stats too seriously. NCAA stats count sacks as negative rushing yards.

His actual rushing stats (not including losses/sacks):
2011: 66 for 233 (3.5 avg)
2010: 54 for 204 (3.7 avg)
2009: 53 for 127 (2.4 avg)

Any way you slice it, not exactly a great runner. Let's not forget, he's 6'2" and 230lbs.

I knew re: how NCAA counts sacks as rushing yards, but Argos site was just easier for me to go to.

As you said AV both sets of stats show that he is not a running QB.

gilthethrill

12-03-2014, 04:03 PM

Since this thread has turned to Mitch Gale...there is an amazing YouTube video of him throwing footballs into garbage cans...unable to post the link, but it is well worth viewing.

ArgoRavi

12-03-2014, 04:39 PM

Regarding Collaros, not everyone is enamoured with him: "I don't get the (Zach) Collaros hype. Holds the ball too long; bad delivery; average accuracy deep. Maybe it's his intangibles and good coaching by (Kent) Austin. I've never coached the young man, but it's not close as a pure passer. Bo Levi Mitchell is much more accurate."

That quote was from Kirk Penton's fine weekly column in the Sun: http://www.torontosun.com/2014/12/02/cfl-officials-wont-change-way-they-call-games

Double Dare

12-03-2014, 05:13 PM

Regarding Collaros, not everyone is enamoured with him: "I don't get the (Zach) Collaros hype. Holds the ball too long; bad delivery; average accuracy deep. Maybe it's his intangibles and good coaching by (Kent) Austin. I've never coached the young man, but it's not close as a pure passer. Bo Levi Mitchell is much more accurate."

That quote was from Kirk Penton's fine weekly column in the Sun: http://www.torontosun.com/2014/12/02/cfl-officials-wont-change-way-they-call-games I don't like him for the same above reasons ... those and his lack of ball security.

doubleblue

12-03-2014, 05:48 PM

Regarding Collaros, not everyone is enamoured with him: "I don't get the (Zach) Collaros hype. Holds the ball too long; bad delivery; average accuracy deep. Maybe it's his intangibles and good coaching by (Kent) Austin. I've never coached the young man, but it's not close as a pure passer. Bo Levi Mitchell is much more accurate."

That quote was from Kirk Penton's fine weekly column in the Sun: http://www.torontosun.com/2014/12/02/cfl-officials-wont-change-way-they-call-games

Those insiders quotes were very interesting. Who ever he was talking to was bang on about the way the game was officiated, very inconsistent, and this IMO was one of the better officiated games in 2014. Doesn't say much for most of the regular season games. Glenn Johnson can say all he wants how his officials won't change the way they call the game but I have a feeling somebody will be giving Glenn and Jake an attitude adjustment in the off season.

AngeloV

12-03-2014, 07:19 PM

Those insiders quotes were very interesting. Who ever he was talking to was bang on about the way the game was officiated, very inconsistent, and this IMO was one of the better officiated games in 2014. Doesn't say much for most of the regular season games. Glenn Johnson can say all he wants how his officials won't change the way they call the game but I have a feeling somebody will be giving Glenn and Jake an attitude adjustment in the off season.

^^^
Well said.

argotom

12-03-2014, 10:53 PM

Well for my 2 cents I would rate Zach ahead of Trevor at this time. They would have made a nice one two punch going forward if Ricky hadn't been available, as they bring a different game to the table so to speak. But Trevor is next up for the Argos now and should see some more playing in 2015 especially in the early going, which shouldn't be a bad thing. Gale seems to be more of a Zach type but maybe not with the throwing accuracy, but that is yet to be determined until he plays more.

For me Gale is ahead of Harris on a depth chart.

Argo57

12-03-2014, 11:55 PM

doubleblue

12-04-2014, 07:56 AM

I still don't see where you see Gale as a Zach type. He has not shown any scrambling ability really (in the limited pre-season chances he has had). I don't see him as having escapability like other quick QB's we have seen in the past (Garcia, Printers, Collaros and of cours Flutie). He's a much bigger QB than Collaros, and from everything I have seen and heard about him, is a pocket style QB with a big arm.

In looking at his NFL pro day results, he ran a 5.01 in the 40. Hardly the makings of a Collaros type QB.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=103781&draftyear=2013&genpos=QB

I don't think Coaches put a lot thought into QB's forty times. For one thing QB's probably don't practice it like WR's and DB's do. But they do need quickness and short speed bursts to avoid the pass rush and get those 2nd and 6 yards at times to keep ball possession. What I saw in TC of Gale was the potential to do that and time will tell if he can translate that into game conditions. Compared to Ricky he looked like a Gazelle.

AngeloV

12-04-2014, 12:10 PM

I don't think Coaches put a lot thought into QB's forty times. For one thing QB's probably don't practice it like WR's and DB's do. But they do need quickness and short speed bursts to avoid the pass rush and get those 2nd and 6 yards at times to keep ball possession. What I saw in TC of Gale was the potential to do that and time will tell if he can translate that into game conditions. Compared to Ricky he looked like a Gazelle.

Fair enough.

For me Gale is ahead of Harris on a depth chart.

Based on what? How much have you seen of him to come up with this conclusion? Harris played well in his only start, and Gale has barely played, yet you see Gale ahead on the depth chart. Very interesting.

doubleblue

12-04-2014, 02:42 PM

Good luck to Jason in Ottawa (he'll need it).

Some anonymous Coach or GM told the Sun writer that he expects Ottawa to be much improved next year with free agent signings. Probably most of their imports except Henry are in the lower wage scale so they may have lots of cap space to spend on some high end imports. But I don't know, trying to buy a winner never seems to work. Should be interesting come February though.

paulwoods13

12-04-2014, 04:45 PM

Unless they can find a QB, buying a bunch of other guys won't help much. But I am worried they will poach some of our talent, especially Holmes if he does not get an NFL deal.

argotom

12-04-2014, 05:28 PM

Fair enough.

Based on what? How much have you seen of him to come up with this conclusion? Harris played well in his only start, and Gale has barely played, yet you see Gale ahead on the depth chart. Very interesting.

What little Gale has shown is far superior to what Harris has done and been unimpressive during the time played.
The very same reason Zach jumped over Harris during their days as backups.

ArgoRavi

12-04-2014, 08:17 PM

What little Gale has shown is far superior to what Harris has done and been unimpressive during the time played.
The very same reason Zach jumped over Harris during their days as backups.

Did I miss these games where Gale showed so much?

argotom

12-04-2014, 11:29 PM

Did I miss these games where Gale showed so much?

The bottom line, I am not impressed with either of our backups, the cupboard is bare when RR is not playing.
The future does not bode well when our hall of famer decides to hang it up.

Argocister

12-05-2014, 12:04 AM

What little Gale has shown is far superior to what Harris has done and been unimpressive during the time played.
The very same reason Zach jumped over Harris during their days as backups.

Mmmmm..... I remember an interview with Milanovich, for the most part, the two were equal. The only reason Zach got the start before Harris was on some obscure stat that he got 2 more points on a certain drive. Milanovich stated the two were so close in the competition for second on the roster. That's why for most of the time they were more like 2a and 2 b .
Personally,I was impressed with Harris as the starter this year. In fact, I wanted to see more ..... I was thinking maybe Milanovich showcased Zach, as he knew someone would take him .... And we could keep Harris.
If Gale is much superior to both Zach and Harris, then I guess the Argos are in a good situation with QBs for a few years.

As for losing another coach, good luck to Jason. Learn from your mistakes .....which should come during your games against the Argos.

On the other hand, I hope the Argos can do succession planning and keep the good coaches ..... Like in
Calgary. Huf has obviously accommodated Dickenson so that Dickenson will become the HC in 2016. Also, he has moved Mueller to the offensive side of the coaching staff..... This was obviously meant to keep him in the Stamps fold, as Regina Rams are looking for a new HC and many were calling for Mueller to return to the team.

AngeloV

12-05-2014, 09:37 AM

What little Gale has shown is far superior to what Harris has done and been unimpressive during the time played.
The very same reason Zach jumped over Harris during their days as backups.

So, running numerous QB sneaks is more impressive than starting and winning a game, and throwing for almost 300 yards in the process? Your Collaros man crush is really clouding what you are observing.

ArgoRavi

12-05-2014, 10:33 AM

I would also add that Harris played better against Ottawa than Collaros did in either game that he played against the RedBlacks this season.

argotom

12-05-2014, 02:39 PM

Mmmmm..... I remember an interview with Milanovich, for the most part, the two were equal. The only reason Zach got the start before Harris was on some obscure stat that he got 2 more points on a certain drive. Milanovich stated the two were so close in the competition for second on the roster. That's why for most of the time they were more like 2a and 2 b .
Personally,I was impressed with Harris as the starter this year. In fact, I wanted to see more ..... I was thinking maybe Milanovich showcased Zach, as he knew someone would take him .... And we could keep Harris.
If Gale is much superior to both Zach and Harris, then I guess the Argos are in a good situation with QBs for a few years.

As for losing another coach, good luck to Jason. Learn from your mistakes .....which should come during your games against the Argos.

On the other hand, I hope the Argos can do succession planning and keep the good coaches ..... Like in
Calgary. Huf has obviously accommodated Dickenson so that Dickenson will become the HC in 2016. Also, he has moved Mueller to the offensive side of the coaching staff..... This was obviously meant to keep him in the Stamps fold, as Regina Rams are looking for a new HC and many were calling for Mueller to return to the team.

That was then way back in camp in 13.
Is your inference how Zach has not improved since that camp and perhaps is now even with Harris or the latter is better that's why we let the former go at FA?
So what he did for us when Ricky was injured last year on top of him breaking out as a future star in this league with the Cats, is a definite curious statement at best?
If so, we are not watching the same person.

Argocister

12-05-2014, 11:12 PM

That was then way back in camp in 13.
Is your inference how Zach has not improved since that camp and perhaps is now even with Harris or the latter is better that's why we let the former go at FA?
So what he did for us when Ricky was injured last year on top of him breaking out as a future star in this league with the Cats, is a definite curious statement at best?
If so, we are not watching the same person.

The statement from Milanovich was actually near the end of this year .... after Harris played his game .... and controlled the game well.
When I have time I will look it up for you.
Zach is a good QB, and there was no inference made that he had not improved. The conjecture of showcasing him was just that .... sorry I shouldnt put it in print without a full explanation... which is not needed. It was just a thought. Zach leaving as a free agent was better for him as he had a chance to gain a starter position with the money that goes along with that.
I like Collaros, but I think Harris may be just as good.Just different. When Harris gets the chance I think the Argos will be in a good position .... better than many teams.

Skinny G

12-23-2014, 03:57 PM

Bryan Chiu off to Ottawa to join Maas: http://www.sportsnet.ca/football/cfl/redblacks-name-chiu-offensive-line-coach/

Wobbler

12-23-2014, 04:24 PM

It's hard to know how good of a job Chiu was really doing, but this doesn't seem like a big loss.

doubleblue

12-23-2014, 06:17 PM

Bryan Chiu off to Ottawa to join Maas: http://www.sportsnet.ca/football/cfl/redblacks-name-chiu-offensive-line-coach/

This can only mean one of two things IMO.

1) The O Line and Milanovich weren't to impressed with his Coaching. (I thought the Line regressed with basically the same Players)

2) The HC is leaving and has told the Assistants to look else where.

ArgoRavi

12-23-2014, 07:52 PM

It is odd that the Argos would let Chiu leave for a lateral move. I am not sure what to make of this.

Argo57

12-23-2014, 08:21 PM

This can only mean one of two things IMO.

1) The O Line and Milanovich weren't to impressed with his Coaching. (I thought the Line regressed with basically the same Players)

2) The HC is leaving and has told the Assistants to look else where.

My guess is #2, O-Line play dropped significantly this year BUT Milanovich has history with Chiu from Montreal and with all the speculation out there regarding our Coach and GM's future in Toronto coupled with our abysmal ownership all signs point to impending change (losing Milanovich and Barker).

Argocister

12-23-2014, 09:26 PM

I think Barker and Milanovich heard the message on our forum, and since Chiu probably has family base in the
Montreal area, Ottawa was the best move for him. Milanovich doesn't have to let him go, and Chiu leaves with no hard feelings.

Most important is our input was heard! ( insert sarcastic smiley here)

Argo57

12-23-2014, 09:37 PM

It is odd that the Argos would let Chiu leave for a lateral move. I am not sure what to make of this.

Lateral move in regards to coaching position and responsibility but if you believe reports implying Argonauts assistant coaches are amongst the lowest paid in the CFL not shocking.

ArgoRavi

12-23-2014, 11:53 PM

Lateral move in regards to coaching position and responsibility but if you believe reports implying Argonauts assistant coaches are amongst the lowest paid in the CFL not shocking.

That makes sense when you take the pay situation into it. Despite all of the speculation, I don't believe that Barker and/or Milanovich are going anywhere. I believe that Barker, for sure, would have left already if he was going to leave and I believe that Milanovich will stay as long as Barker does.

gilthethrill

12-24-2014, 07:33 AM

Let's not forget that Chiu was not Milanovich's first choice to coach the O line. Pat Perles was hired but backed out due to personal reasons. Perhaps the Argos have someone else in mind for 2015...maybe Perles is able to commit next season.

ArgoRavi

12-24-2014, 12:33 PM

Let's not forget that Chiu was not Milanovich's first choice to coach the O line. Pat Perles was hired but backed out due to personal reasons. Perhaps the Argos have someone else in mind for 2015...maybe Perles is able to commit next season.

Perles coached Hamilton's o-line in the late 1990s when that team had so much success and his team gave up seven sacks for an entire season in either '98 or '99 IIRC.

gilthethrill

12-24-2014, 12:53 PM

Perles coached Hamilton's o-line in the late 1990s when that team had so much success and his team gave up seven sacks for an entire season in either '98 or '99 IIRC.

Yes...Tackles Dave Hack and Seth Dittman where two reasons....Danny McManus getting rid of the ball quickly was also a factor Ravi. I hope Perles returns to Toronto in 2015.

Argo

12-24-2014, 07:26 PM

It's hard to know how good of a job Chiu was really doing, but this doesn't seem like a big loss.

Yep. I thought Chiu would have made more of an impact, even as a newbie coach. But last season was such an anomaly that it was difficult to get a reading on anything much. Did we have an OC ?

ArgoRavi

12-24-2014, 09:37 PM

Yep. I thought Chiu would have made more of an impact, even as a newbie coach. But last season was such an anomaly that it was difficult to get a reading on anything much. Did we have an OC ?

Marcus Brady was the offensive coordinator for the second consecutive season.

Argo

12-26-2014, 06:58 PM

Marcus Brady was the offensive coordinator for the second consecutive season.

Yes, I know, but he seemed invisible. I don't watch TV - was Brady ever shown or discussed on TSN broadcasts? I don't recall ever reading about him in print media last season.