Five favourite Argonauts

[paulwoods13]

Steve Simmons' Sunday column this week had a long tribute to Dick Thornton and also this bit:

My favourite Argos, in no particular order: 1. Mel Profit; 2. Dick Thornton; 3. Pinball Clemons; 4. Marv Luster; 5. Terry Greer.

Got me thinking about my own list of five favourite Argos, and wondering about everyone else's. Since it's a fairly safe bet everyone would include Pinball, I'm leaving him off my list and suggest others do as well.

So here are my five favourite Argos, apart from Pinball Clemons:

1. Paul Pearson
2. Noel Prefontaine
3. Bobby Taylor
4. Dan Ferrone
5. Ray Nettles

[ArgoGabe22]

Byron Parker, Ed Harrington, Les Ascot, Nobby Wirkowski, & Condredge Holloway.

[Will]

[1] Byron Parker
[2] 'Pinball' Clemons
[3] Jonathan Brown
[4] Kevin Eiben
[5] Arland Bruce III

[Rich]

Doug Flutie
Mel Profit
Jim Corrigall
Mike O'Shea
Arland Bruce

[1argoholic]

I find it too difficult to pick just five.

Paul Pearson
Pre
Mookie
Harold Hallman
Terry Greer

Obviously Pinball would top a list but he'd top many lists. Gill Fenerty, Bashir Levingston, Massoti, The Big Z which is easier then attempting his name. Waters is becoming a fav as is another former great Argo kicker in Vanderjagt.

Not easy or fair to pick this list. I could go on and on. Every year guys come and go and many leave a very long lasting impression. D Max for example. I wasn't even going to post because it's so difficult. Love to see Lori Bursey's list. Dunnigan could easily be on my list as well. Oh well enough rambling.

[AngeloV]

Holloway
Greer
Pinball
Corrigal
Flutie

Honourable mention to DK Smith.

[Double Dare]

... QBs Holloway, Flutie, Dunnigan, Allen, Ray

[Argos23]

In no particular order:

Douig Flutie
Ricky Ray
Mookie Mitchell
Pinball Clemons
Chad Owens

[ArgoRavi]

This is a tough one for me as there are so many. Other than Pinball, I would have to say:

Condredge Holloway
Terry Greer
Doug Flutie
Ricky Ray
Carl Brazley, Granny Liggins and Jim Corrigall (tied)

I know that I am leaving many off though that I will only think about later. For example, I don't know how I can leave Cedric Minter off the list. The man scored the winning TDs in both the 1983 East Final and Grey Cup. Reggie Pleasant is another one that has just come to mind as has Chad Owens.

[AngeloV]

I know that I am leaving many off though that I will only think about later. For example, I don't know how I can leave Cedric Minter off the list. The man scored the winning TDs in both the 1983 East Final and Grey Cup. Reggie Pleasant is another one that has just come to mind as has Chad Owens.

I think Reggie Pleasant might be the most underrated DB to ever play in the CFL (at least over the years that I have been watching). He just quiertly got the job done without being flashy, and was always very professional. You never saw him trying to draw attention to himself, something that happens with pretty much every DB these days.

[paulwoods13]

I'm changing my fifth pick from Ray Nettles to Carl Brazley -- can't believe I forgot about him. I'm also ruing my omissions of, in no particular order, Leon McQuay, Jim Corrigall, Granny Liggins, Condredge Holloway, Terry Greer, Gill Fenerty, Willie Pless, Chris Gaines, Paul Masotti, Adrion Smith, Jonathan Brown, Andre Durie and Chad Owens. We've had lots of guys worthy of being considered favourites.

[Argo57]

Condredge Holloway
Terry Greer
Don Moen
Zac Henderson (To bad he didn't stay longer)
Michael Clemons

[argos1873]

Holloway, Flutie, Fenerty, Kackert, Prefontaine.

Of course Pinball is on the list, but he asked us to leave him off. I could sub the last 3 guys with so many others too, its very hard to choose.

[Stevoman]

(Pinball Clemons)
1. Chad Owens
2. Adrion Smith
3. Matt Dunigan
4. Darrel K. Smith
5. Robert Drummond

[gilthethrill]

Another under rated long time vet yet to be named is Don Wilson. I am unable to compile just 5. AV, although his #17 jersey is proudly displayed in my Argo room, Joe Barnes would not make my list.

[OV Argo]

Too tough to pick just 5 - but - Dick Shatto, Jim Corrigall, Don Moen, Paul Masotti, Mike Clemons (all 5 are Argo lifers - played CFL only for the Argos - i believe ?; Pinball played a bit in the NFL before coming here)

[1971GreyCup]

Of course, Bill Symons, Jim Stillwagon, Granville Liggans, Mel Profit, Marv Luster

[ArgoGabe22]

Byron Parker, Ed Harrington, Les Ascot, Nobby Wirkowski, & Condredge Holloway.

Just for the record if anyone was wondering why I chose such older players, it's because I personally has the pleasure of getting their signatures and I thought they really took the time and even wrote letters in return. All 5 of these players are very classy IMO.

[1argoholic]

It obviously takes more than a minute or two of thought before posting as Zac Henderson, DK Smith and a few others would have been serious considerations on my list. You could have a top five list for every year. Tons of great guys I got to know from years of hitting practices and numerous Argo functions, games etc such as Norm Cassola, Mike Moreale, Kelly Wiltshire and a whole bunch more. Too many years and players to have such a tiny list. Fun to think about though.

[ArgoGabe22]

Would anyone have such a hard time making a list of a top 5 in another pro league? I highly doubt it. I'm not even sure that I have ever encountered meeting 5 athletes from another league.

[OV Argo]

Didn't the old site have some lists of posters' all-time Argo team - naming every position? That is tough and more thorough than just a top 5.

Might be cool to see some of those all-time team lists and have as a sticky here ?

[LLB997]

My top 5 is a mix of skill and personality. Steak and sizzle if u will

1.Condredge Holloway
2.Chad Owens
3.Pinball Clemons
4.Carl Brazley
5.Gene Mack

[1argoholic]

Gene Mack would top an all time Argo Character list.

[stuntdog]

For entertainment value...

1. Kerwin Bell
http://www.dudelol.com/img/kerwin-bell-spikes-the-ball-into-his-nuts-gets-pushed-by-another-player-and-then-trips-into-another-player.gif

2. Robert Baker
3. Noel Prefontaine
http://www.argosendzone.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/prefontaine-punch-to-the-head.gif

4. Adriano Belli
5. Bashir Levingston


Honorable mention to Clifford Ivory, Chad Folk, John Avery, Andre Talbot, Jude St John, Michael Bishop & Wayne Lammle

[ArgoGabe22]

How did we all miss Belli?

[paulwoods13]

Didn't the old site have some lists of posters' all-time Argo team - naming every position? That is tough and more thorough than just a top 5.

Might be cool to see some of those all-time team lists and have as a sticky here ?

Good idea. I think we should also create a list of who should be added to the all-time Argonauts list on the banners. Many great players are not yet on that list. IMO to qualify you should have played at least five years with the Argos and should be most identified with the Argos if you also played for other teams. So that would disqualify Flutie and Allen and Dunigan, which would be fine with me. They were all great Argos but are more associated with other teams and/or had short tenures in Toronto.

[OV Argo]

Good idea. I think we should also create a list of who should be added to the all-time Argonauts list on the banners. Many great players are not yet on that list. IMO to qualify you should have played at least five years with the Argos and should be most identified with the Argos if you also played for other teams. So that would disqualify Flutie and Allen and Dunigan, which would be fine with me. They were all great Argos but are more associated with other teams and/or had short tenures in Toronto.

I get what you mean about qualifying and the career Argo thing; but an all-time Argo all-star type roster should IMO still be open to anyone who played for the Argos (and obviously was outstanding) - SO - players like Flutie or Bruce Clark who played just 2 seasons, could get voted for based on pure football talent or Argo success; but I would understand those who choose not to vote for such players in favor of guys with much longer Argo careers. (Flutie is probably the only such guy i would vote for on my team - 2 GC winning seasons by one of the greatest QBs ever to play in the CFL and in his prime; AND the Argos just do NOT (arguably) have any great long Argot career QBs, unless you go back before my time i guess - somebody like Krol).

[Will]

Feel free to start your own threads on those topics. It would be good discussion for the off-season, which is very slow.

[paulwoods13]

I get what you mean about qualifying and the career Argo thing; but an all-time Argo all-star type roster should IMO still be open to anyone who played for the Argos (and obviously was outstanding) - SO - players like Flutie or Bruce Clark who played just 2 seasons, could get voted for based on pure football talent or Argo success; but I would understand those who choose not to vote for such players in favor of guys with much longer Argo careers. (Flutie is probably the only such guy i would vote for on my team - 2 GC winning seasons by one of the greatest QBs ever to play in the CFL and in his prime; AND the Argos just do NOT (arguably) have any great long Argot career QBs, unless you go back before my time i guess - somebody like Krol).

I agree that Flutie, for instance, could and maybe should be considered the greatest QB in Argo history. But paradoxically I would not put him up on the banners in the stadium as an all-time Argonaut because, to me, that honour should be reserved for guys who were with the team a long time and/or most closely associated with the Argos rather than other teams. I will start a separate thread on this topic.

[Argo]

In no particular order:

Carl Brazley
Leon McQuay
Terry Greer
Eric Harris
Paul Masotti (or "Paul Mastoid", according to the spell-checker)

Essentially, I really cannot choose just five players: it's too painful not including Eric Allen, Jim Stillwagon, Jim Corrigall, Darrel K. Smith, Don Moen, Mike Eben, Granville Liggans, Mel Profit, Marv Luster, Paul Pearson, Doyle Orange, Condredge Holloway, Doug Flutie, Michael Clemons, ... and so many other wonderful Argos.

[ArgoZ]

I like this thread because it's a list of everyone's favourite players and not just skilled. I'm a 90's guy, so my list is heavy influenced by that era.

Michael Clemons is the most likable athlete of all time. Even my Grandmother liked him. Now my next five in order.

2. Mike O'Shea - His rookie season, he was the only Ti-Cat to stay post game and give this Argo fan an autograph. The way he played. Make a drive ending tackle, then be first downfield on ST.
3. Paul Masotti - I always tried to copy his signature hook pattern when playing myself. He had a cottage near my home on Lake Erie.
4. Matt Dunigan - Was a true warrior. All iced up and won us a Cup. Once asked me for a Toronto Sun while he was headed to his Cudas bus. I happily obliged and he stopped to sign all my stuff before he got on.
5. Byron Parker - Always made the clutch play. An emotional and proud Argonaut. All around great guy.
6. Doug Flutie - I appreciated his talent more than anything. Not very likable and a little arrogant, but he came to play every single down.

7. Honorable mentions go to Don Moen, Chris Schultz, Adrian Smith, Noel Prefontaine, Andre Durie and Chad Owens.

[eiben35]

Pinball Clemons
Kevin Eiben
Jonathan Brown
Derrell "Mookie" Mitchell
Don Moen

[1argoholic]

See every time I someone else posts I see other names of guys I loved like Moen, Eiban and Eric Harris.

McQuay would be one of my least favs as he was a total prick to my cousin and I as we tried to get his autograph at CNE Stadium after a practice once. We were at the top of Ontario Place before the new Blue Jay section at CNE and we could see the Argos practicing so we ran over. So many of the guys were great including Russ Jackson who was coaching at the time. McQuay was a KNOB who couldn't hold onto a ball when it counted.

[paulwoods13]

See every time I someone else posts I see other names of guys I loved like Moen, Eiban and Eric Harris.

McQuay would be one of my least favs as he was a total prick to my cousin and I as we tried to get his autograph at CNE Stadium after a practice once. We were at the top of Ontario Place before the new Blue Jay section at CNE and we could see the Argos practicing so we ran over. So many of the guys were great including Russ Jackson who was coaching at the time. McQuay was a KNOB who couldn't hold onto a ball when it counted.

I think you may mean Anthony Davis, not McQuay. Leon was with the Argos 1971-73, Jackson was coach 1975-76 and Davis was an Argo in 1976. The stadium was reconfigured for baseball starting in 1976.

[OV Argo]

I think you may mean Anthony Davis, not McQuay. Leon was with the Argos 1971-73, Jackson was coach 1975-76 and Davis was an Argo in 1976. The stadium was reconfigured for baseball starting in 1976.

Man - the Argos had some great talent at times at RB back in those days - Symons, McQuay ( a "knob" maybe but one of the most explosive running backs i've ever seen - in ANY football), Anthony Davis, Terry Metcalf ... a lineage carried on thru to the likes of Cedric Minter (maybe not a real great ground game force but a real dual threat as a receiver as well), Pinball, Gill Fenerty .., Mike Jenkins, Cory Boyd, even Chad Kackert for one season = some very talented RBs have worn the Double Blue ! Too bad not many of them lasted long-term as Argo dominant CFL backs who led the offence to great success - Minter and Pinball and Kack were key to GC wins though; Leon and Gill and the Thrill = almost.:ohno:

[paulwoods13]

The Argos get criticized a lot for never developing their "own" QB, but they could also be criticized for never (other than Pinball) managing to keep good RBs around very long. Mind you, they aren't the only team to fail in that regard. Hamilton has also had mostly short-lived backs, as has Edm since Jim Germany and Blake Marshall. Calgary and Winnipeg have probably had the most success finding long-term backs, although "long-term" is somewhat relative at that position.

[matchuk]

pinball
jonathan brown
jordan younger
damon allen
prefontaine

[OV Argo]

The Argos get criticized a lot for never developing their "own" QB, but they could also be criticized for never (other than Pinball) managing to keep good RBs around very long. Mind you, they aren't the only team to fail in that regard. Hamilton has also had mostly short-lived backs, as has Edm since Jim Germany and Blake Marshall. Calgary and Winnipeg have probably had the most success finding long-term backs, although "long-term" is somewhat relative at that position.

True i guess - but maybe it could also be argued that the Argos have had so much RB talent that the NFL would eventually call - McQuay, Davis, (Metcalf went back), Minter, Fenerty, Jenkins all got lured away ... too bad. wish the Argos had hung on to Neil Lumsden who went on to be a CFL force for the Esks for a number of years - Argos never shown much faith in Canadian RBs compared to some CFL teams it seems ... coulda drafted Jon Cornish

[paulwoods13]

True i guess - but maybe it could also be argued that the Argos have had so much RB talent that the NFL would eventually call - McQuay, Davis, (Metcalf went back), Minter, Fenerty, Jenkins all got lured away ... too bad. wish the Argos had hung on to Neil Lumsden who went on to be a CFL force for the Esks for a number of years - Argos never shown much faith in Canadian RBs compared to some CFL teams it seems ... coulda drafted Jon Cornish

McQuay got traded to Calgary before going to the NFL. Davis may have "jumped" to the NFL but he would have been released anyway. Fenerty and Minter were all-time greats whose departures will forever be lamented. Jenkins flared up briefly but I wouldn't rate him in the same class as minter, fenerty or kackert -- maybe becuz he had the misfortune of being a feature back under the horrendously bad John Huard.

[Argo57]

True i guess - but maybe it could also be argued that the Argos have had so much RB talent that the NFL would eventually call - McQuay, Davis, (Metcalf went back), Minter, Fenerty, Jenkins all got lured away ... too bad. wish the Argos had hung on to Neil Lumsden who went on to be a CFL force for the Esks for a number of years - Argos never shown much faith in Canadian RBs compared to some CFL teams it seems ... coulda drafted Jon Cornish

Another guy they let get away was Mark Braganolo a good Canadian RB who played his first 3 seasons with the Argos and went on to have a pretty solid career (mainly in the Hammer).

[Will]

I don't know who mentioned it, whether it was on here or not, but one of the biggest problems that the Argos seemed to have in the 1970's was their inability to either draft or recruit and retain good Canadian talent. The aforementioned Lumsden and Braganulo was let go, but so was Paul Bennett who became a all-Canadian DB in the 1980's. Kelvin Kirk never became a 1,000-yard receiver, but I do believe he was solid for several years. It wasn't really until the early 1980's that the team started to rebuild it's Canadian talent as you can read about in Paul's book.

[ArgoRavi]

I don't know who mentioned it, whether it was on here or not, but one of the biggest problems that the Argos seemed to have in the 1970's was their inability to either draft or recruit and retain good Canadian talent. The aforementioned Lumsden and Braganulo was let go, but so was Paul Bennett who became a all-Canadian DB in the 1980's. Kelvin Kirk never became a 1,000-yard receiver, but I do believe he was solid for several years. It wasn't really until the early 1980's that the team started to rebuild it's Canadian talent as you can read about in Paul's book.

Good points about the Canadian talent. Kelvin Kirk, however, was an American and the first ever Mr. Irrelevant in the NFL as is mentioned in this article that was written at the time of Kirk's untimely death: http://articles.dailypilot.com/2003-07-13/news/export21996_1_irrelevant-week-paul-salata-grey-cup

[paulwoods13]

I don't know who mentioned it, whether it was on here or not, but one of the biggest problems that the Argos seemed to have in the 1970's was their inability to either draft or recruit and retain good Canadian talent. The aforementioned Lumsden and Braganulo was let go, but so was Paul Bennett who became a all-Canadian DB in the 1980's. Kelvin Kirk never became a 1,000-yard receiver, but I do believe he was solid for several years. It wasn't really until the early 1980's that the team started to rebuild it's Canadian talent as you can read about in Paul's book.

Bennett and Bragagnolo were traded to Wpg in deals that brought back John Malinosky and Bob Bronk (with a few other players also involved). It sucked to lose Bennett, who had a Hall of Fame career, but Malinosky was a key piece of the o-line that won the 1983 Grey Cup, and Bronk was a huge part of the Run and Shoot offence before injuries derailed his career.

[1argoholic]

Thought of another, Reggie Givens. GREAT guy in which I had a long running joke about Penn St not belonging in the Big 10.

[ArgoRavi]

Thought of another, Reggie Givens. GREAT guy in which I had a long running joke about Penn St not belonging in the Big 10.

Maybe they don't after that sex abuse scandal. Anyway, Givens was a solid player, especially during his first stint as an Argo in the mid 1990s. Several off of that '97 Grey Cup winning team, like Givens, went on to productive NFL careers including Flutie, Kiselak, Vanderjagt, and Johnnie Harris. Ryan Grigson, who was on the PR, has gone on to become a successful general manager in the NFL.

[Argo57]

Another "what if" guy is Daryl Ford, had a couple of very good seasons in Toronto (1990-91) particularly effective in 91 then bounced around the NFL for a few seasons and returned to the CFL (and was never the same). What could have been if he had stayed an Argonaut!

[OV Argo]

McQuay got traded to Calgary before going to the NFL. Davis may have "jumped" to the NFL but he would have been released anyway. Fenerty and Minter were all-time greats whose departures will forever be lamented. Jenkins flared up briefly but I wouldn't rate him in the same class as minter, fenerty or kackert -- maybe becuz he had the misfortune of being a feature back under the horrendously bad John Huard.


Jenkins was a far superior pure ball carrier RB than Minter IMO, but Minter was a dual threat as a good receiver too; Minter played on good offences that went to the GC; Jenkins was on bad Argo teams

[doubleblue]

Jenkins was a far superior pure ball carrier RB than Minter IMO, but Minter was a dual threat as a good receiver too; Minter played on good offences that went to the GC; Jenkins was on bad Argo teams

Jenkins was good one year but was too heavy when he came back from the NFL to have much of an impact. But I don't know about him being better than Minter. I hated to see Fenerty leave as I thought he could have had a long career with the Argos by moving to the slot similar to what Durie has done while still running the ball at times. He was too small to take the pounding as a RB in the NFL IMO, but you have to follow the money.

[Will]

It would have been interesting to see how Fenerty got used in the 1990 and 1991 season. The Argos didn't run the ball a whole lot and, in fact, I believe that Rickey Foggie was the leading rusher in both seasons. I don't know if that was a product of Matthews or Rita's offenses or the Argos not replacing Fenerty completely, but he may very well have been used the way Minter was used in 1982 and 1983. But, of course, if Fenerty stays in Toronto that arguably might mean less of a role for Pinball.

[1argoholic]

Paul I stand corrected. Sorry I ripped on McQuay. Sheesh, it was Eric 'The Flea' Allan who thought he was something special. Must have been in 75. Feeling old.

[Argo]

This is a good thread!