2012 Town Hall

[T-Bone]

Save the date:
73

[argofandave]

Was this posted on the Argo website? I can't find find it there.

[T-Bone]

I don't believe it was posted on the Argos website. It was sent via e-mail in an Argos E-Blitz. I'm not sure if it was sent to everyone on the E-Blitz mailing list or just seasons ticket holders.

[argofandave]

Thanks for letting me know. I'm a season ticket holder and I'm on (I think) the E-Blitz mailing list but they never sent anything to me. I don't remember that last time I received an E-Blitz.

[ArgoGabe22]

I will be attending this or hope to at least.

[paulwoods13]

Has anyone been able to confiirm if this is open to all STH, or just those on the invitation list? I never received an invitation, not sure if they deliberately culled the list to limit numbers or if it's because my online account with them has an out-of-date email address.

[Mulder]

Has anyone been able to confiirm if this is open to all STH, or just those on the invitation list? I never received an invitation, not sure if they deliberately culled the list to limit numbers or if it's because my online account with them has an out-of-date email address.

Call the office, It's probably the out of date email address.

[Argocister]

I also am a season ticket holder that did not receive the invite. ..... so it may be invitation only. I am sure since they are wanting fan feedback they will not turn you away if you showed. But if you are the rabblerouser they may escort you to the door if you are being disruptive.
;)

[T-Bone]

I also am a season ticket holder that did not receive the invite. ..... so it may be invitation only. I am sure since they are wanting fan feedback they will not turn you away if you showed. But if you are the rabblerouser they may escort you to the door if you are being disruptive.
;)
I wouldn't show up with out RSVP'ing first as the invite says space is limited. I sent the e-mail as instructed and received a call a few hours later to confirm.

[argofandave]

I didn't receive an invitation but I did RSVP them but they did NOT call me back to confirm. I sent an email to my Argo rep on Monday but haven't received a reply and I phoned him today but he hasn't phoned me back so perhaps he's on vacation this week. This will be my 25th year as a season ticket holder so I'm assuming that they will let me attend. I'll give them another call tomorrow and talk to someone else if my rep isn't there.

[paulwoods13]

I didn't receive an invitation but I did RSVP them but they did NOT call me back to confirm. I sent an email to my Argo rep on Monday but haven't received a reply and I phoned him today but he hasn't phoned me back so perhaps he's on vacation this week. This will be my 25th year as a season ticket holder so I'm assuming that they will let me attend. I'll give them another call tomorrow and talk to someone else if my rep isn't there.

It's disappointing to think they would not invite all STH, or at least all longtimers. I'm sure space is at a premium but it would be nice to know how they determined who got invited if the list was limited. Maybe based on price point?

The Ticats have (or at least used to have) someone who regularly answered fan queries on their forum -- would be nice if Argos would start doing that as well. I have emailed and tweeted my interest in attending -- will see if they answer.

[argomANIA]

Argos via Twitter:
#Argos season ticket holders- have you RDVP'd to the Town Hall event coming this Monday? Hope to 2 c u there!!


So I'm guessing it's open to all season ticket holders. Have you guys checked your junk mail?

[Mulder]

Argos via Twitter:
#Argos season ticket holders- have you RDVP'd to the Town Hall event coming this Monday? Hope to 2 c u there!!


So I'm guessing it's open to all season ticket holders. Have you guys checked your junk mail?

Instead of whining about it here about not getting contacted, the simple thing to do would be call 416-341-ARGO and ask them.

[argofandave]

I just received a call from my Argo rep. He said that the Town Hall meeting is open to season ticket holders only and that's why it was not posted on the Argo website. He also said that even though I had enrolled in the E-Blitz program, someone at their end had checked a "do not send" box so that is why I never got an invitation (or anything else) by email. I told my Argo rep that other people had posted on this website the same problem that I was having. Any STH who didn't get an invitation and would like to go should contact the Argo office and RSVP to clientservices@argonauts.ca.

[T-Bone]

I just received a call from my Argo rep. He said that the Town Hall meeting is open to season ticket holders only and that's why it was not posted on the Argo website. He also said that even though I had enrolled in the E-Blitz program, someone at their end had checked a "do not send" box so that is why I never got an invitation (or anything else) by email. I told my Argo rep that other people had posted on this website the same problem that I was having. Any STH who didn't get an invitation and would like to go should contact the Argo office and RSVP to clientservices@argonauts.ca.Glad to hear they could accommodate you. See you Monday.

[Argonauter]

Toronto Argonauts twitter-

CEO Chris Rudge at #Argos Town Hall, "Business side of operation going well. Season ticket sales at 500% of same time last year."

75

Pic from the town hall.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXiXL8LAcRI

[paulwoods13]

Rudge: Time to stop making excuses for why people don't come to games. 5 mln ppl in Toronto, enough to attract good crowds. Need 25k per game to make money. Have to "act big." Doesn't want to go 9-0 at home while winning every game 12-7. Would rather lose a few but have the score 38-35. (Milanovich disagreed, saying he'd rather win 42-2 but if he can't do that, winning 12-7 would be fine.) The practice facility is "not what I would call a robust facility for a professional team." Developing a plan to "give coaches and players the professional home they deserve."

Barker: Milanovich is a "superstar coach." Team had to recruit him now or he would have been snapped up by someone else.

Milanovich: was offered the HC job two yrs ago, turned it down because of mgmt and stability at that time. He will serve as OC but game-planning will be collaborative. He can rely on Jones to look after the defence so he can focus on offence. He will eventually get an OC in the future but not this year.

Barker: lost 35 years of memorabilia and personal stuff in the practice facility fire. All kinds of playbooks and even notes written by Bill Walsh with the 49ers when Barker was at SF State -- he would wait until the mtg ended and then when all the coaches left, scoop up Walsh's notes.

Milanovich: Ricky Ray is "as tough a QB as you will ever find -- he gets smashed in the mouth and then fires a strike on the next snap."

Barker: Ricky Ray will be the starter for at least 3-4 years. He is in his prime years. Jarious Jackson is a great locker room guy. "We needed to improve the leadership in the room." Tyler Holmes (last year's draft pick who went back to Tulsa) is "not the NFL style." He may get an NFL camp invitation but Barker is optimistic he'll be with the Argos and be a "pleasant surprise."

Milanovich: Likes Cory Boyd as a player "but the offence will not run through Cory Boyd, it will run through Ricky Ray." Boyd will get 20 touches per game, but better touches without nine or 10 guys swarming around him. Kackert is a good player and it's psbl both will dress at the same time but that won't be figured out until he knows which Cdns he has that can start. And there's only one ball anyway.

Rudge: Has a good relationship with Rogers, Beeston and Pelley. In negots to renew the Rogers Centre lease for 3-5 years. "We will be there at least five more years." Blue Jays and Argos have same type of challenges -- to inspire people to buy ST when they know they can walk up to the gate and get good seats. Beeston told him in advance he was thinking about grass, but Rudge feels it's very unlikely because of the number of revenue events the RC would have to give up. "It's theoretical, hypothetical." Doesn't care about the Bills issue -- the Detroit Lions co-exist with Michigan and Michigan State, same thing can happen here.

There was an impassioned plea from a fan to bring back the boat logo. David Bedford replied that it did not win the Facebook poll, but said to stay tuned. He personally prefers the Theismann-era A logo. He implied to someone afterwards that the boat logo may be back in some way next year, which is the 30th anniversary of the 1983 GC win.

Three players attended: Durie, Eppele and Pottinger. Ricky Ray answered a couple of fan questions on tape via Skype.

All in all an excellent event and a great opportunity for ST holders to meet key guys from the team.

Star coverage:

http://www.thestar.com/sports/football/cfl/argos/article/1148894--toronto-argonauts-vow-to-get-back-on-a-list

[1argoholic]

Well I hope Rudge can work some sort of magic.
I personally think the Argos think Ray is going to be the only player we need. I don't think they've done nearly enough for us to be anywhere near the Grey Cup this year. We'll have a very young team learning how to play together and about the CFL in most cases. If we show some improvement I'll be happy or at least if we're finally heading in the right direction. If we end up looking like the Leafs I'll be pissed off.

Please don't bring back the A. Boring crap.

[AngeloV]

Rudge: Time to stop making excuses for why people don't come to games. 5 mln ppl in Toronto, enough to attract good crowds. Need 25k per game to make money. Have to "act big." Doesn't want to go 9-0 at home while winning every game 12-7. Would rather lose a few but have the score 38-35. (Milanovich disagreed, saying he'd rather win 42-2 but if he can't do that, winning 12-7 would be fine.) The practice facility is "not what I would call a robust facility for a professional team." Developing a plan to "give coaches and players the professional home they deserve."

Barker: Milanovich is a "superstar coach." Team had to recruit him now or he would have been snapped up by someone else.

Milanovich: was offered the HC job two yrs ago, turned it down because of mgmt and stability at that time. He will serve as OC but game-planning will be collaborative. He can rely on Jones to look after the defence so he can focus on offence. He will eventually get an OC in the future but not this year.

Barker: lost 35 years of memorabilia and personal stuff in the practice facility fire. All kinds of playbooks and even notes written by Bill Walsh with the 49ers when Barker was at SF State -- he would wait until the mtg ended and then when all the coaches left, scoop up Walsh's notes.

Milanovich: Ricky Ray is "as tough a QB as you will ever find -- he gets smashed in the mouth and then fires a strike on the next snap."

Barker: Ricky Ray will be the starter for at least 3-4 years. He is in his prime years. Jarious Jackson is a great locker room guy. "We needed to improve the leadership in the room." Tyler Holmes (last year's draft pick who went back to Tulsa) is "not the NFL style." He may get an NFL camp invitation but Barker is optimistic he'll be with the Argos and be a "pleasant surprise."

Milanovich: Likes Cory Boyd as a player "but the offence will not run through Cory Boyd, it will run through Ricky Ray." Boyd will get 20 touches per game, but better touches without nine or 10 guys swarming around him. Kackert is a good player and it's psbl both will dress at the same time but that won't be figured out until he knows which Cdns he has that can start. And there's only one ball anyway.

Rudge: Has a good relationship with Rogers, Beeston and Pelley. In negots to renew the Rogers Centre lease for 3-5 years. "We will be there at least five more years." Blue Jays and Argos have same type of challenges -- to inspire people to buy ST when they know they can walk up to the gate and get good seats. Beeston told him in advance he was thinking about grass, but Rudge feels it's very unlikely because of the number of revenue events the RC would have to give up. "It's theoretical, hypothetical." Doesn't care about the Bills issue -- the Detroit Lions co-exist with Michigan and Michigan State, same thing can happen here.

There was an impassioned plea from a fan to bring back the boat logo. David Bedford replied that it did not win the Facebook poll, but said to stay tuned. He personally prefers the Theismann-era A logo. He implied to someone afterwards that the boat logo may be back in some way next year, which is the 30th anniversary of the 1983 GC win.

Three players attended: Durie, Eppele and Pottinger. Ricky Ray answered a couple of fan questions on tape via Skype.

All in all an excellent event and a great opportunity for ST holders to meet key guys from the team.

Thanks for the in depth description of the evening Paul. Would have loved to have been there, but I had a previous commitment.

[Area 51]

Barker was a bit over the top in patting himself on the back and literally laughing aloud at how badly he ripped off the Eskimos in the Ricky Ray trade. Not sure if he remembers what happened last time Tillman traded a premier QB to Toronto

Rudge gave a good speech, in spite of all the corporate cliches - - "this is an evolution, not a revoloution"..."nobody's as smart as everybody"...I think that's one of his personal faves, he threw it out there at least twice.

The Q&A session was pretty weak. The soloution to increasing attendance is to have focus groups of people who have had season tickets for 40+ years...some guy rambling about how the league needs to have Canadian QBs...another going on about how little kids can't recognize the letter A but will surely be able to identify with a boat.


Best comment/question came from the guy who questioned why Kackert was ignored last year - - Barker really took offence to that question. And I could see exactly where Barker was going with his rebuttal asking the guy "how many carries should Kackert get....10 or 15....and what about Boyd, 15 or 20? So that leaves Ricky Ray throwing about 10 passes a game because if you know anything about the game you know there's only about 45 offensive plays...."

At an event for season ticket holders you wouldn't expect the GM to try and embarass one of the people in attendance. Nice job Barker.

[argolio]

Thanks for the in depth description of the evening Paul.And thanks from me as well.

[ArgoRavi]

And thanks from me as well.

And another thanks from me as well, Paul!

[paulwoods13]

The Q&A session was pretty weak. The soloution to increasing attendance is to have focus groups of people who have had season tickets for 40+ years...some guy rambling about how the league needs to have Canadian QBs...another going on about how little kids can't recognize the letter A but will surely be able to identify with a boat.


Best comment/question came from the guy who questioned why Kackert was ignored last year - - Barker really took offence to that question. And I could see exactly where Barker was going with his rebuttal asking the guy "how many carries should Kackert get....10 or 15....and what about Boyd, 15 or 20? So that leaves Ricky Ray throwing about 10 passes a game because if you know anything about the game you know there's only about 45 offensive plays...."

At an event for season ticket holders you wouldn't expect the GM to try and embarass one of the people in attendance. Nice job Barker.

When you hand mics to audience members with no pre-screening, you can't be certain of getting good questions or comments, unfortunately. Don Landry at least asked some pretty good questions. The Kackert question was the toughest for sure, and Milanovich's answer was good -- it may or may not be possible to get both RBs into the lineup, won't know until the non-imports are assessed in person. But I agree, Barker got defensive and overly aggressive in his response on that question.


". . . because if you know anything about the game you know there's only about 45 offensive plays...."


Not to hijack this thread but this is something I've raved on about before. Changes to timing rules over the past couple of decades have really reduced the number of offensive plays in a game. I used to study the weekly stats really closely in the 1980s and '90s and it was quite common for there to be about 110-120 offensive plays (runs and pass attempts/sacks) in a game. Now the number is more like 100, I believe. I think the league changed when the 20-second clock starts ticking (i.e. later), allowing more time to run down between plays, and they started running the clock down on converts. When I watch old games using the 30-second skip function on my DVD recorder, the next play is invariably under way 30 seconds after the previous one ended. On modern games, skipping 30 seconds ahead almost always finds the offence still in the huddle. I'd love to see timing rules reviewed and revised so that there are more offensive plays in a game for both teams.

[argonaut11xx]

The Q&A session was pretty weak. The soloution to increasing attendance is to have focus groups of people who have had season tickets for 40+ years....

WTF????...this is WHY the Argo's dont have a synergy with younger fans...i really hope they dont rely on the old gaurd....NEW BLOOD is the only way to build a fan base long term

[paulwoods13]

WTF????...this is WHY the Argo's dont have a synergy with younger fans...i really hope they dont rely on the old gaurd....NEW BLOOD is the only way to build a fan base long term

The "use-us-40-yr-fans" idea was not the team's -- it was the suggestion of a fan and was gently brushed aside by team brass.

[argonaut11xx]

The "use-us-40-yr-fans" idea was not the team's -- it was the suggestion of a fan and was gently brushed aside by team brass.

WHEW...cause that was about the stupidest idea i think i have EVER heard...even Sherwood Shwartz had better idea's than that. Popsicle anyone?

[T-Bone]

When you hand mics to audience members with no pre-screening, you can't be certain of getting good questions or comments, unfortunately.
Thanks paulwoods13 for posting that summry, you got all the important stuff. I was there last night and I personally felt there was a lot filler for the amout of time we spent there. It is unfortunate they didn't have people submit questions ahead of time for the Q&A and then pick the best ones to be asked last night.


Toronto Argonauts twitter-

CEO Chris Rudge at #Argos Town Hall, "Business side of operation going well. Season ticket sales at 500% of same time last year."
Does anyone else find this stat a little weird? Chris Rudge also said last night that there was 100% renwal rate, which I find hard to believe that not one person didn't drop their season ticket(s) from last year to this year. Wasn't the number floating around 8,000 season tickets last season? If that's the case with a 500% increase doesn't that mean we have 40,000 season ticket holders this year?

[Mulder]

Does anyone else find this stat a little weird? Chris Rudge also said last night that there was 100% renwal rate, which I find hard to believe that not one person didn't drop their season ticket(s) from last year to this year. Wasn't the number floating around 8,000 season tickets last season? If that's the case with a 500% increase doesn't that mean we have 40,000 season ticket holders this year?

He means new season seat sales. I've heard this quite a bit.

If the Argos had 100 new season seat holders last season, it means they have 500 new this season. It's a deceiving stat.

[T-Bone]

He means new season seat sales. I've heard this quite a bit.

If the Argos had 100 new season seat holders last season, it means they have 500 new this season. It's a deceiving stat.
That makes more sense. Though 40,000 would have been nice, we would have had to open the 500 level again. I really hope the drop off next season won't be 500%

[paulwoods13]

I think what he actually said, the team's tweet notwithstanding, was that renewals are 100% ahead of last year at the same date, and new subs are 500% ahead of last year at this time. So if last year there were 1,000 renewals at this date, this year there were 2,000 at the same date. And if there were 100 new subs last year at this time, this year there are 500 new subs. (Hypothetical, not actual numbers.)

[matthew]

Especially after he answered that Kackert query, I knew not to ask any "football" questions because Barker would tear you a new a$$hole!! which is fine because after all, he knows more about it than I do! I don't think he meant to embarass the fan that asked the question but he does come on that way in his mannerism.

It was a good night all in all and well worth going. I would have liked to have seen a preview of the new unis or something however.

[T-Bone]

I think what he actually said, the team's tweet notwithstanding, was that renewals are 100% ahead of last year at the same date, and new subs are 500% ahead of last year at this time. So if last year there were 1,000 renewals at this date, this year there were 2,000 at the same date. And if there were 100 new subs last year at this time, this year there are 500 new subs. (Hypothetical, not actual numbers.)
Gotcha. I just wish they would stop playing this % game and give us actual numbers.

[argomANIA]

I thought the Town Hall was lacking a little. They hyped up the Grey Cup...which I understand. They were all excited about the numbers of season tickets sold, but do they think those people will be back next year once there isn't a Grey Cup? Especially if the team is crap again. I enjoyed meeting Rudge and Milanovich...but other then that I don't feel like there was anything new. Like Matthew said, unveiling the new uniform or something would have been really cool. i was disapointed that Ricky Ray wans't there. And only two twitter questions. One of which was "what's your fave throwing drill?" WHO CARES???!!! Sorry if it was someone from here that asked that! lol

I think the Zip Line at City Hall should be really cool. Also the re-creation of the Mud Bowl at a school in the community needing a new field. Great way to give back. Can't wait to hear more about that.

[ArgoGabe22]

Yeah the questions sucked like how the CFTO is anti CFL. What's Rudge and Barker and supposed to do? TSN is the only station that covers the CFL, they're not going to bad mouth them. I thought the questions were going more relate to where the team is headed. The logo question was valid, we did this survey last year and nothing came from it. I had a few questions but Don Landry asked them all, like what are the plans for a new practice facility. That old guy raised a point, are they going to do something after this but only asking feedback from veteran season ticket holders is not the way to go. You telling me I don't have anything to suggest?

I asked a question after because I felt it was more personal and I was not going take away anyone else's question to hear me babble. I told the Grey Cup organizer that I really liked bringing in the 1991 team but was disappointed with the $125 fee at Joe Badali's and told him there is no way I can afford that just for lunch. He then told me me no tickets were $20 and very affordable. I just said well that's not what I've been told. After looking again http://argonauts.ca/article/91-reunion-luncheon-on-sale I don't see $20 tickets.

I also suggested they honour the older players from the 52 team (Wirkowski, Ascott, O'Connor, Skidmore, Bruno etc.) before going back to the more recent teams and he assured me they are in the process of doing such.

[paulwoods13]

We all want to see the new unis, but I believe that is a league-wide initiative. It would make no sense to dole things out in dribs and drabs, here and there. When the time comes to unveil, it has to be an announcement that earns a big splash around the entire league, not just among one team's fanbase. That said, some teasers could have been given, to get fans excited about what the new unis might look like.

[1argoholic]

It's still Reebok so I wouldn't get too excited.

[matthew]

yea a teaser would have been nice. Lots to look forward too regardless.

[AngeloV]

I think the league changed when the 20-second clock starts ticking (i.e. later), allowing more time to run down between plays, and they started running the clock down on converts. When I watch old games using the 30-second skip function on my DVD recorder, the next play is invariably under way 30 seconds after the previous one ended. On modern games, skipping 30 seconds ahead almost always finds the offence still in the huddle. I'd love to see timing rules reviewed and revised so that there are more offensive plays in a game for both teams.

Paul, I truly believe that the main reason there are less plays being run, is because teams are really milking the play clock before the snap. Most of the time the ball is snapped with 1 or 2 seconds left on the play clock. I think that's a good 5 seconds per play longer than what it used to be.

[paulwoods13]

Paul, I truly believe that the main reason there are less plays being run, is because teams are really milking the play clock before the snap. Most of the time the ball is snapped with 1 or 2 seconds left on the play clock. I think that's a good 5 seconds per play longer than what it used to be.

I agree teams are doing that, but I also think the refs start the 20-second clock later than they used to, i.e. they often wait until substitutions have been made before starting that clock. I bet that in the past, they started it when the ball was placed regardless of what substituting was going on.

[ArgoRavi]

I agree teams are doing that, but I also think the refs start the 20-second clock later than they used to, i.e. they often wait until substitutions have been made before starting that clock. I bet that in the past, they started it when the ball was placed regardless of what substituting was going on.

And there is a lot more substitution going on with the expanded rosters than we would see even a decade ago.

[Area 51]

Especially after he answered that Kackert query, I knew not to ask any "football" questions because Barker would tear you a new a$$hole!! which is fine because after all, he knows more about it than I do! I don't think he meant to embarass the fan that asked the question but he does come on that way in his mannerism.



I was going to bring up the two games Toronto played a man short last year because they didn't have enough Canadians and ask Barker why he hasn't done anything to increase the NI depth. Probably a good thing the mic never got to me.

Interesting to hear Barker talk about what a tough decision it was not to brign Eiben back and how hurt he was to see him sign with Hamilton. From everything I've heard, Barker had no use for him and Hagen thought even less of Eiben than Barker did. But at least Barker was honest in acknowledging that he lost control of the team last year and that the documentary was a bad idea.

[Ron]

I would have asked Barker what he would do if Ricky Ray's cell phone started ringing in training camp.

[RoRoYoBoat]

This is an important year for Jim Barker. Rudge clearly defined what he expects from this team and Jim can now be evaluated on he same criterias as every other GM in the league. It was a bad idea for him to handle both the GM and HC jobs of a reconstruction project but lets face it, people were not ligning up at the door to come over to Toronto. I think he needs to be evaluated on the quality of the talent he brings in and his management of the football operations budget. In Calgary Murphy brough in most of the talent...

As for his interactions with season ticket holders. He showed his colours and I don't think the man will change. He has difficutly controlling his emotions and often speaks too much without thinking.

My biggest concern with Barker is that for a guy who's been involved in pro ball for as long as he has, his network of contacts is very limited. This is proven by how he keeps going to orgs he's departed from for talent. Hiring a guy who's he's never met and been out of football two years over the phone with a third party is another.

His love of the CFL is undeniable and should be commended but he needs to think more, talk less and be kinder to other people if he wants to be successful.

[ArgoRavi]

I have always strongly suspected that Barker reads this forum - I know that he used to read Calgary's fan forum when he worked there - and is probably sick and tired about all of the criticism over not getting Kackert into the lineup with Boyd. Even if he didn't convey his answer in the most cordial fashion, his answer to that question does make a lot of sense.

[RoRoYoBoat]

Well they tried that last year with their "House of Pain" idea. I don't think they need to target a specific group, they need to be inclusive no matter who the target audience is. They also need to place their players in the forefront. Barker and his staff should not be the face of the franchise. Hard for me to understand how you would host a TH meeting and not have any of Boyd,Owens or Ray in attendance and have them chat football with the fans. These are the guys that you use to sell football. Skype thing was a poor choice. Fly Ray in and let the fans get to know him... Or don't bother.


I have always strongly suspected that Barker reads this forum - I know that he used to read Calgary's fan forum when he worked there - and is probably sick and tired about all of the criticism over not getting Kackert into the lineup with Boyd. Even if he didn't convey his answer in the most cordial fashion, his answer to that question does make a lot of sense.

I don't agree, he's an executive and needs to think like one. It is not unususal for a backup to intrigue fans, more often than not it is the backup QB but in this case it happens to be Kackert. There is no reason for him to answer that way. Perception is a big part of marketing. So to reason that his intention on educating the fan were good, how he went about it was not smart. There was a hundred different ways of handling that question better.

[T-Bone]

Hard for me to understand how you would host a TH meeting and not have any of Boyd,Owens or Ray in attendance and have them chat football with the fans. These are the guys that you use to sell football. Skype thing was a poor choice. Fly Ray in and let the fans get to know him... Or don't bother.
Ray wasn't there apparently because he recently had a child and had already been up here for two previous events. As for the others I don't know.

[paulwoods13]

Ray wasn't there apparently because he recently had a child and had already been up here for two previous events. As for the others I don't know.

We'd all have liked to see RR there but if that's the reason he wasn't, it is a valid one. It would be pretty expensive to bring Owens all the way in from Hawaii just to preach to the converted. And it's not as if this team isn't full of guys who interact with the community during the season.

[1argoholic]

Trade Ray and Owens for not being there!!!! hahahaha, just kidding!

[LLB997]

Anybody have video of Barkers Hissy Fit?

[Will]

I don't agree, he's an executive and needs to think like one. It is not unususal for a backup to intrigue fans, more often than not it is the backup QB but in this case it happens to be Kackert. There is no reason for him to answer that way. Perception is a big part of marketing. So to reason that his intention on educating the fan were good, how he went about it was not smart. There was a hundred different ways of handling that question better.

I wasn't at the event and therefore did not see Barker's answer in person, but I agree with him. There are a lot better ways that he could have answered that question. He could've said that while he appreciates what Cory Boyd and Chad Kackert bring to the table, that the acquisition of Ricky Ray means that the Argonauts will likely not have to be as dependent on the running game in 2012 as they were (or should've been) in 2011. There, easy answer, without coming across as rude or condescending to the question asker.

[1argoholic]

Plus both have done little with their teams.

[paulwoods13]

This Kackert thing is taking on way more importance than it merits. One somewhat ill-conceived answer to a question has somehow morphed into "Barker is as bad a GM as Brian Burke"?

[RoRoYoBoat]

Has nothing to do with goo/bad. He has terrible manners and no PR skills whatsoever.

[Ron]

Barker should not have even answered a question about how to use a player ... let alone be an ass about it. It's not his job anymore ... it's the Head Coach and OC's job.

Hopefully this doesn't mean he'll be an interfering GM.

[paulwoods13]

The question as posed by the fan was, in part, why didn't we see Kackert more last season since he was our leading scorer? So it's not unreasonable for the guy who made personnel decisions last year to throw in his two cents on that.

As for the suggestion that he has "no PR skills whatsoever" -- really? Is this because he endlessly bashes fans, is sarcastic to the media, gives spectators the finger? Apart from his ill-conceived answer to the fan who asked the Kackert question, I sure haven't see anything else that would merit such condemnation. Ron Wilson and Sam Mitchell were examples in this town of coaches who did not know how to do public relations -- Barker is not even close to their level of condescension.

[RoRoYoBoat]

The question as posed by the fan was, in part, why didn't we see Kackert more last season since he was our leading scorer? So it's not unreasonable for the guy who made personnel decisions last year to throw in his two cents on that.

As for the suggestion that he has "no PR skills whatsoever" -- really? Is this because he endlessly bashes fans, is sarcastic to the media, gives spectators the finger? Apart from his ill-conceived answer to the fan who asked the Kackert question, I sure haven't see anything else that would merit such condemnation. Ron Wilson and Sam Mitchell were examples in this town of coaches who did not know how to do public relations -- Barker is not even close to their level of condescension.

i agree he's not "the worse". Still, I can't count how many times I've heard Barker say things that take a shot at someone over the last 10 years. Most of the time he does not even realize he's being an ass. You don't need to use a negative comment to emphasize someone else positive actions to make a point. He does it all the time.

[R.J]

The question as posed by the fan was, in part, why didn't we see Kackert more last season since he was our leading scorer? So it's not unreasonable for the guy who made personnel decisions last year to throw in his two cents on that.

As for the suggestion that he has "no PR skills whatsoever" -- really? Is this because he endlessly bashes fans, is sarcastic to the media, gives spectators the finger? Apart from his ill-conceived answer to the fan who asked the Kackert question, I sure haven't see anything else that would merit such condemnation. Ron Wilson and Sam Mitchell were examples in this town of coaches who did not know how to do public relations -- Barker is not even close to their level of condescension.
So whenever Barker was questioned about Lemon or the Lemon situation, he never made remarks or got defensive..........etc ?

We're getting off topic though............. Would have been great if someone could upload at least part of the event online.
Should also point out that the event did make it to the press, as quite a few papers ran stories about it, good news if you ask me.

Edit : guess the Argos do intend to post something up.
Toronto Argonauts ‏ @TorontoArgos
@TylerABieber Thx, glad u liked the idea. We should have a video up from the event 2morrow. Lots of great info passed along.

[paulwoods13]

So whenever Barker was questioned about Lemon or the Lemon situation, he never made remarks or got defensive..........etc ?

Yes, he defended his decisions on Lemon (and other things), but I don't recall anything he said that I would deem unprofessional or being clueless about PR. If anyone has any examples of Barker ripping or being sarcastic to a reporter like Ron Wilson and Sam Mitchell did routinely, please post the link.

[ArgoRavi]

The media don't seem to consider Barker to be difficult to deal with. In fact, I have always gotten the sense that the media like dealing with the man. As for comparing him with Brian Burke, well, Barker has gotten his team into the playoffs and has only been on the job half as long as Burke so I think that he holds up quite well in comparison.

[LLB997]

I like Barker, I think his players have tons of respect for him.At times he has come off as defensive and seems to have a bit of a challenge in dealing with the TO media when the tougher questions are asked. Overall i think he did a decent job as head coach, but then again he did follow Bart Andrus.

[Ballstothewall]

what's your best guess on how many season ticket holders were in attandance

[R.J]

Yes, he defended his decisions on Lemon (and other things), but I don't recall anything he said that I would deem unprofessional or being clueless about PR. If anyone has any examples of Barker ripping or being sarcastic to a reporter like Ron Wilson and Sam Mitchell did routinely, please post the link.
The comparison was Burke and Barker, not Wilson and mitchell vs Barker, Wilson and Mitchel take the cake when it came to dealing with the media.
I can think of 1 interview with Barker on Primetime with McCown and Cox, where Barker refused to answered the question (regarding lemon and his release) and was clearly getting irritated and IMO acting unprofessionally, however I cannot find the link, I do recall posting it on the old friendsoftheargonauts forum though.

[Area 51]

My biggest concern with Barker is that for a guy who's been involved in pro ball for as long as he has, his network of contacts is very limited.



I don't think it's any secret that Barker doesn't command much respect around the league - - there's been incidents with Buono and Hufnagel in the past that have been well documented. Seeing how he handled the question about the Ricky Ray trade was a good example.

The conversation was something to the effect that the QB position was very inconsistent "until Edmonton decided to help us out". Barker then started laughing his ass off and commented "I had to convince them they'd be better off with Jyles" followed by more hysterical laughing to the point where I thought he was about to fall off his chair.

It's great to take someone to the cleaners on a deal, but you can't gloat about it like that and expect to have any kind of alliances around the league.

[argolio]

I would have asked Barker what he would do if Ricky Ray's cell phone started ringing in training camp.lol!




.

[KCargosfan]

Barker is a football personnel guy/coach who has pretty good PR skills imo of observing him with the media. I think he's one of the best radio interviews around. Getting defensive about a personnel move with a fan or media guy makes him no different than any other coach I can think of, and it doesn't make him Rex Ryan.

As a fan of the Chefs and having to hear Carl Peterson and Scott Pioli in the media for the last 30 years, Barker is a breath of fresh air.

[ArgoRavi]

I don't think it's any secret that Barker doesn't command much respect around the league - - there's been incidents with Buono and Hufnagel in the past that have been well documented. Seeing how he handled the question about the Ricky Ray trade was a good example.

The conversation was something to the effect that the QB position was very inconsistent "until Edmonton decided to help us out". Barker then started laughing his ass off and commented "I had to convince them they'd be better off with Jyles" followed by more hysterical laughing to the point where I thought he was about to fall off his chair.

It's great to take someone to the cleaners on a deal, but you can't gloat about it like that and expect to have any kind of alliances around the league.

Eric Tillman has ticked a lot of people off around the league over the years. Barker's credibility around the league probably went up after gloating over getting the better of that deal and Tillman.

[RoRoYoBoat]

I don't think it's any secret that Barker doesn't command much respect around the league - - there's been incidents with Buono and Hufnagel in the past that have been well documented. Seeing how he handled the question about the Ricky Ray trade was a good example.

The conversation was something to the effect that the QB position was very inconsistent "until Edmonton decided to help us out". Barker then started laughing his ass off and commented "I had to convince them they'd be better off with Jyles" followed by more hysterical laughing to the point where I thought he was about to fall off his chair.

It's great to take someone to the cleaners on a deal, but you can't gloat about it like that and expect to have any kind of alliances around the league.

Very unprofessional behavior, you can add that to the firing of the athletic therapist, his mental breakdown in the locker room, comments regarding an injured recruit in last year's documentary and multiple meddling in other team's contracted players and staff. So how is he going to go about finishing the job of building the Argos will be interesting.

[T-Bone]

what's your best guess on how many season ticket holders were in attandance
I would say about 150 but no more than 200 max.

[matthew]

Barker, though at times he comes off gruffly, I think tells it like it is. His way of speaking is likely reflective of how it really is in the football world behind the doors we never get to see into. Quite frankly, I think its a welcome change from the usual cliche stuff like player interviews where its all "we gotta give 110%" and "got to come out and play strong or smart" yadda yadda yadda. I'd rather get a few good laughing points (and the odd cringe) then that 6:00 news sports report fodder.

There is always two sides to everything. Have worked in automotive retail I had a face that talked to customers then the side where I talked with my techs. Same in football no doubt. The pleaseant PR side that the papers see then the internal football stuff that Barker gave us a glimpse of like the "sh$% the bed" comment he made twice. I always made a point of watching his pre and post game press conferences because he didn't take any bs or shy away from questions.

[paulwoods13]

The comparison was Burke and Barker, not Wilson and mitchell vs Barker, Wilson and Mitchel take the cake when it came to dealing with the media.
I can think of 1 interview with Barker on Primetime with McCown and Cox, where Barker refused to answered the question (regarding lemon and his release) and was clearly getting irritated and IMO acting unprofessionally, however I cannot find the link, I do recall posting it on the old friendsoftheargonauts forum though.

Yes, you did compare him to Burke in terms of how he speaks to the media and the fanbase. I don't really see much of a comparison, tho. I agree Barker was defensive and unco-operative in that particular interview, but I respect him for not telling the full story there (or since) because it almost certainly would have meant unleashing a character assassination against Lemon. Beyond that, when has he been sarcastic or aggressive in the media? Are there reporters he won't speak to (as there are with Burke)?

At least we both seem to agree Wilson and Mitchell were far worse.


Very unprofessional behavior, you can add that to the firing of the athletic therapist, his mental breakdown in the locker room, comments regarding an injured recruit in last year's documentary and multiple meddling in other team's contracted players and staff. So how is he going to go about finishing the job of building the Argos will be interesting.

Do you have information about the therapist's departure that proves Barker somehow engaged in unprofessional behaviour? What is the "mental breakdown in the locker room" to which you are referring? What comments did he make about an injured recruit, and how do they constitute unprofessional behaviour? What was the "multiple meddling" with other teams' employees? This is a really interesting list of innuendo but I don't see much substance there, I'm afraid.

[gilthethrill]

Did anyone ask Jim if he tried to acquire the Eskimos timekeeper along with Ricky Ray? :)

[RoRoYoBoat]

Do you have information about the therapist's departure that proves Barker somehow engaged in unprofessional behaviour? What is the "mental breakdown in the locker room" to which you are referring? What comments did he make about an injured recruit, and how do they constitute unprofessional behaviour? What was the "multiple meddling" with other teams' employees? This is a really interesting list of innuendo but I don't see much substance there, I'm afraid.

That's ok.

[Area 51]

Do you have information about the therapist's departure that proves Barker somehow engaged in unprofessional behaviour? What is the "mental breakdown in the locker room" to which you are referring? What comments did he make about an injured recruit, and how do they constitute unprofessional behaviour? What was the "multiple meddling" with other teams' employees? This is a really interesting list of innuendo but I don't see much substance there, I'm afraid.



You're right, the wrongful dismissal lawsuit against Barker and the Argos was never "proven" in court. But when a defendant settles without even filing a statment of defence, what does that tell you? Do the Argos just throw away money at any lawsuit they get hit with even if it's completely false? If that's the case, I'm going to file a $1M lawsuit against Barker and the Argos for the mental anguish I suffered last year watching that pathetic performance.

The "comments" about the injured player were part of last year's documentary. Do you recall the scene where Barker commented about the player who showed up on crutches..."we need to get an offensive lineman and get that kid home. He's just not ready to be a pro football player. 15mins before practice he complains he's cramping up and his knee hurts...Dave put him on crutches, hehehehe. "

I got crucified here last year for calling Chip Lemon a puss when he chipped his tooth and sat out for two weeks, but Barker questioning a player's toughness and suggesting he's not really injured gets a free pass?

What was the "multiple meddling" with other team's employees? Gee, I don't know - - Milanovich? Chris Jones? But I guess since there's no "proof" it can't possibly be true. Even when the Argos got fined for "meddling" with Chris Jones, nothing was proven in a court of law and there was no admission of guilt - - just like the lawsuit from the therapist. Prior to that, do you remember the criticism from Buono about Barker tampering with Lulay?

http://sports.nationalpost.com/2010/07/23/cfl-will-not-investigate-argos-coach-for-tampering/

[paulwoods13]

You're right, the wrongful dismissal lawsuit against Barker and the Argos was never "proven" in court. But when a defendant settles without even filing a statment of defence, what does that tell you? Do the Argos just throw away money at any lawsuit they get hit with even if it's completely false? If that's the case, I'm going to file a $1M lawsuit against Barker and the Argos for the mental anguish I suffered last year watching that pathetic performance.

What does "settled out of court" mean in this particular case? Any idea how much, if any, money or other considerations changed hands? Unless you have seen the settlement (which is extremely unlikely), you really have no idea whatsoever about the outcome of that suit, do you? The only people who know what really happened in that situation are the parties directly involved, none of whom are talking about it. So to suggest that it somehow proves unprofessional conduct on Barker's part is a huge stretch.


The "comments" about the injured player were part of last year's documentary. Do you recall the scene where Barker commented about the player who showed up on crutches..."we need to get an offensive lineman and get that kid home. He's just not ready to be a pro football player. 15mins before practice he complains he's cramping up and his knee hurts...Dave put him on crutches, hehehehe. "

I got crucified here last year for calling Chip Lemon a puss when he chipped his tooth and sat out for two weeks, but Barker questioning a player's toughness and suggesting he's not really injured gets a free pass?

Pro football is a tough business -- if you're an unproven commodity and not ready to go when the bell rings (especially when there are 70 players in camp), they get rid of you. What part of his reaction was unprofessional? The fact he said what any coach likely would have said? Or the fact he said it in front of a camera?


What was the "multiple meddling" with other team's employees? Gee, I don't know - - Milanovich? Chris Jones? But I guess since there's no "proof" it can't possibly be true. Even when the Argos got fined for "meddling" with Chris Jones, nothing was proven in a court of law and there was no admission of guilt - - just like the lawsuit from the therapist. Prior to that, do you remember the criticism from Buono about Barker tampering with Lulay?

So you're saying that hiring someone else's coaches when they are under contract and without permission is unprofessional? I actually don't disagree with that. But to suggest (if you are) that the hiring of Milanovich as head coach involved tampering seems to be a new accusation. And I don't think anyone working in any sport has any issue with hiring a guy away if he is given a clear promotion, as Milanovich was. Jones is another story, obviously. The Lulay comments were pretty benign, and Buono's response amounted to little more than gamesmanship. There's no evidence I'm aware of that he brought an actual complaint forward to the league (as opposed to reporters).

[Argocister]

Wrongful dismissal ...... Barker handled this professionally. Those employees that file for a wrongful dismissal often get out of court settlements ,often times because the cost of settling is less cost -dollars and effort- than proceeding to determine who is actually right. When a settlement occurs, neither side is to discuss the reasons for the settlement, the reasons for the charge of wrongful dismissal or the settlement terms. Barker said nothing and didn't disclose any information whether right or wrong. Don't assume saying nothing is unprofessional.
From what I understood of the Scott - Chris interaction prior to the DC hiring, is that it was a friendly discussion between a couple of friends that should have either waited for a couple weeks or kept quiet. When you are excited of the future possibilities, one often discusses things in anticipation with those you keep in close touch with especially if it involves them. I don't pin this on Barker either.
Injured player? .... Yea it probably reflects on Barker........more of a tough SOB

[argolio]

But when a defendant settles without even filing a statment of defence, what does that tell you?Absolutely nothing.

[ArgoGabe22]

Video is now up http://www.argonauts.ca/video/index