November 15, 2015: Toronto Argonauts vs. Hamilton Tiger-Cats

[T-Bone]

http://cfl.assets.mrx.ca/shared/sked_blocks_logos/2012_2/2012_schedule_default2/tor.png vs. http://cfl.assets.mrx.ca/shared/sked_blocks_logos/2012_2/2012_schedule_default2/ham.png

Eastern Semi-Final
Sunday, November 15, 2015 at 1:00pm EST.
Tim Hortons Field. Hamilton, ON.

TV: TSN1/3/4/5 (http://www.tsn.ca/tv#/)
Video Webcast: TSN Go (http://www.tsn.ca/tv#/) - ESPN3 (http://espn.go.com/watchespn/index/_/type/upcoming/sport/football/search/CFL/) - YouTube (http://www.cfl.ca/article/cfl-expands-global-reach-youtube-to-stream-grey-cup)
Radio: TOR: TSN 1050 (http://www.tsn.ca/radio/toronto-1050) - HAM: TSN 1150 (http://www.tsn.ca/radio/hamilton-1150)
Audio Webcast: TOR: Here (http://www.tsn.ca/radio/tsn-1050-live-stream-1.52945?ot=example.AjaxPageLayout.ot) - HAM: Here (http://player.hamilton.tsn.ca/)
Satellite Radio: SiriusXM (http://www.siriusxm.ca/sports/cfl/)

Depth Charts: TOR: Here (http://www.argonauts.ca/depthchart/list/team/7/year/2015) - HAM: Here (http://ticats.ca/depth-charts/)

Game Preview: Here (http://argonauts.ca/video/index/id/119791)

Post-Game Update:

Game Highlights (http://www.cfl.ca/2015/11/15/esf-recap-hamilton-25-toronto-22/)

Game Recap (http://argonauts.ca/article/syndicated/477395/masoli-rallies-ticats-to-last-second-win-over-argos)

Final Score: 22-25 (http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/game/toronto-argonauts-hamilton-tiger-cats-20151115/Stats)

[Neely2005]

Sucks that we didn't get a home playoff game (especially since it was part of the season ticket package this year) but it will certainly be interesting to see how we match up against Hamilton with no Collaros.

[AngeloV]

Sucks that we didn't get a home playoff game (especially since it was part of the season ticket package this year) but it will certainly be interesting to see how we match up against Hamilton with no Collaros.

On the bright side, we now get reimbursed for the Fort Mac game, since the playoff ticket was a replacement for that.

[Wobbler]

Since Elliot seems to be injured, I'm assuming that our starting O will be:

Campbell-Holmes-Keeping-Smith-Van Roten
Hazelton-Owens-Spencer-Gurley
Whitaker-Coombs
Ray

It was nice to see strong late-season performances from guys like Bates and Stala (and I think the latter will dress), but we're going to start the guys who got us here.

[Ron]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Lost in admiration for <a href="https://twitter.com/HenryBurris">@HenryBurris</a> and his <a href="https://twitter.com/REDBLACKS">@REDBLACKS</a> teammates and coaches. Too bad they have to play <a href="https://twitter.com/Ticats">@Ticats</a> in East Final. ;-)</p>&mdash; Bob Young (@CaretakerBob) <a href="https://twitter.com/CaretakerBob/status/663158614467747840">November 8, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>!

[Neely2005]

!

These things usually come back to bite you in the ass.

[1971GreyCup]

Something to pin on the wall if Argos need extra motivation.

[gilthethrill]

Bob Young, in addition to being a great team owner, is a nice man just having some fun on twitter.

[Wobbler]

Bob Young, in addition to being a great team owner, is a nice man just having some fun on twitter.
Agreed!

[R.J]

Young's just having a little fun, I don't take issue with that. Now if it was one of the players or coaches it'd be different.

[ArgoRavi]

Since Elliot seems to be injured, I'm assuming that our starting O will be:

Campbell-Holmes-Keeping-Smith-Van Roten
Hazelton-Owens-Spencer-Gurley
Whitaker-Coombs
Ray

It was nice to see strong late-season performances from guys like Bates and Stala (and I think the latter will dress), but we're going to start the guys who got us here.

I would expect Van Zeyl to be back at right tackle next Sunday. He hasn't had a great season and has been fighting the injury bug but, after resting on Friday, I expect he will be lined up next to Van Roten who will be at right guard in Hamilton.

[AngeloV]

I would expect Van Zeyl to be back at right tackle next Sunday. He hasn't had a great season and has been fighting the injury bug but, after resting on Friday, I expect he will be lined up next to Van Roten who will be at right guard in Hamilton.

If I can guarantee Smith not to go down mid game, I would start him. He is their best when he is in the game. The o-line was at it's best when he was starting prior to Keeping's return from injury, and it looked much better on Friday as well. Smith had a great camp, and I believe if they felt he wasn't on his last legs in terms of health (durability), he would have started the entire year at right guard.

[ArgoRavi]

If I can guarantee Smith not to go down mid game, I would start him. He is their best when he is in the game. The o-line was at it's best when he was starting prior to Keeping's return from injury, and it looked much better on Friday as well. Smith had a great camp, and I believe if they felt he wasn't on his last legs in terms of health (durability), he would have started the entire year at right guard.

Smith plays well when he is in the lineup but at this point I wonder if his body isn't being held together by masking tape.

[ArgoFan1]

I will be very disappointed if Kackert is not playing at all in this game.
Who all here is going to the game?? I will definitely be there. Looking to take my 5 buddies that go to Labour Day game every year and tailgate all morning again.

[Deerkeeper]

I will be very disappointed if Kackert is not playing at all in this game.
Who all here is going to the game?? I will definitely be there. Looking to take my 5 buddies that go to Labour Day game every year and tailgate all morning again.
I agree about Kackert. He earned the start on Friday.
I got my ticket Sunday morning. Sec207 R7 S7. If you want to go you had better hurry. There were not many tickets left. I'll be driving in from London after going to the Yates Cup on Saturday

[T-Bone]

Young's just having a little fun, I don't take issue with that. Now if it was one of the players or coaches it'd be different.
Agreed. I think anyone that has seen an interview or meet Young knows he's not being malicious and just having fun which is all the difference.

[AngeloV]

I agree about Kackert. He earned the start on Friday.
I got my ticket Sunday morning. Sec207 R7 S7. If you want to go you had better hurry. There were not many tickets left. I'll be driving in from London after going to the Yates Cup on Saturday

Again, with all due respect to Kackert, nobody earns a spot in a glorified exhibition game. Whitaker has been great all year.

[Argo]

Again, with all due respect to Kackert, nobody earns a spot in a glorified exhibition game. Whitaker has been great all year.

I think the ponderable is Kackert vs. Steele, with the intrigue being that Kackert on point is a game-changer.



I believe that I will take the Argonauts to win this game.

[AngeloV]

I think the ponderable is Kackert vs. Steele, with the intrigue being that Kackert on point is a game-changer.

But if Kackert isn't the starter, I doubt you will see him as the back up. Back ups are expected to have an impact on special teams, and Steele is excellent on special teams. Unless they decide to sit Spencer, and I really don't see that happening, I don't expect Kackert to dress.

[QBall]

I'm feeling really good about this one. Pussy Cats have been on a huge slide recently which culminated in last Saturday's pretty humiliating loss. We have momentum. We seem to be coming together on both offense and defense. It's 2012 all over again.

[1argoholic]

I wouldn't feel all pumped by this game. We haven't exactly played lights out and our D is so so at best. Hamilton's D carries that team and plays us really well. With makeshift qb's at the helm they played Ottawa tough and the trickery worked again. If we need to score 35 to 40 points to win it won't happen. I really hope we can win our first game at Tims but I won't hold my breath. Milanovich has to pull out some trick or unusual plays to help us on Sunday.

[AngeloV]

I wouldn't feel all pumped by this game. We haven't exactly played lights out and our D is so so at best. Hamilton's D carries that team and plays us really well. With makeshift qb's at the helm they played Ottawa tough and the trickery worked again. If we need to score 35 to 40 points to win it won't happen. I really hope we can win our first game at Tims but I won't hold my breath. Milanovich has to pull out some trick or unusual plays to help us on Sunday.

Maybe they'll be working on those trick plays you speak of.

Argos closed Wednesday's practice to public and media. I was planning on going since I don't work that day. Oh well.

[Argo]

I wouldn't feel all pumped by this game. We haven't exactly played lights out and our D is so so at best. Hamilton's D carries that team and plays us really well. With makeshift qb's at the helm they played Ottawa tough and the trickery worked again. If we need to score 35 to 40 points to win it won't happen. I really hope we can win our first game at Tims but I won't hold my breath. Milanovich has to pull out some trick or unusual plays to help us on Sunday.

It seemed to me, after watching the highlights, that the Tabbies did indeed play Ottawa tough, and "Mazola's" (second?) oily fumble - in the red zone, IIRC - effectively killed his team's chance to win momentum and, indeed, the game.

IF the Argonauts SHOW UP to COMPETE, it'll be a good game, and the second derivative of my opinion of Head Coach Milanovich will change sign.

[Scooter McCray]

I wouldn't feel all pumped by this game. We haven't exactly played lights out and our D is so so at best. Hamilton's D carries that team and plays us really well. With makeshift qb's at the helm they played Ottawa tough and the trickery worked again. If we need to score 35 to 40 points to win it won't happen. I really hope we can win our first game at Tims but I won't hold my breath. Milanovich has to pull out some trick or unusual plays to help us on Sunday.

As long as Argos do not allow defensive or special teams scores there is no way the Hamilton offence can put up multiple touchdowns with the quarterbacks they have. It should be a close game and I should the Argos win the turnover battle they can win.

[ArgoRavi]

As long as Argos do not allow defensive or special teams scores there is no way the Hamilton offence can put up multiple touchdowns with the quarterbacks they have. It should be a close game and I should the Argos win the turnover battle they can win.

Scooter is right. Win the turnover battle and don't take stupid penalties. Force the Hamilton offence to march down the field for their points which will be a real challenge for them.

[QBall]

I wouldn't feel all pumped by this game. We haven't exactly played lights out and our D is so so at best. Hamilton's D carries that team and plays us really well. With makeshift qb's at the helm they played Ottawa tough and the trickery worked again. If we need to score 35 to 40 points to win it won't happen. I really hope we can win our first game at Tims but I won't hold my breath. Milanovich has to pull out some trick or unusual plays to help us on Sunday.

Meh, tricks are for kids. I think our defense has it's shit together a little better than Ottawa. I see us forcing whomever the tabbies have left as QB into making lots of errors. This won't be a cakewalk but I think we'll be well prepared for this game.

[AngeloV]

Scooter is right. Win the turnover battle and don't take stupid penalties. Force the Hamilton offence to march down the field for their points which will be a real challenge for them.

Of course, that didn't help in the B.C. game. Argos dominated the turnover battle in that game.

[1argoholic]

I really do hope for an Argo win so every Argo fan in attendance can watch Hamilton fans bail like rats off of a sinking ship. It's really a rare but great feeling for TO fans in Hamilton. I'll be at home but I've experienced the losing end while at Ivor Wynne too many times and the Cats fans yapping just doesn't stop. Hope Ray can be vintage Ray.

[Scooter McCray]

Of course, that didn't help in the B.C. game. Argos dominated the turnover battle in that game.You are right. But that is such an outlier. If you win the turnover battle like that you should win 99% of the time. 2 missed FGS by Toronto cost them. Rogers is long gone.

[AngeloV]

You are right. But that is such an outlier. If you win the turnover battle like that you should win 99% of the time. 2 missed FGS by Toronto cost them. Rogers is long gone.

Agreed. Just saying stranger things have happened, but I fully expect the Argos to win this game.

[OV Argo]

IF any of those Ticats QBs out duel or perform either of Ray or Harris there is something big-time wrong with that picture = no way the Ticats should win this game based on a better offence - they are not clearly better in any phase of offence (though receiving corps' might be fairly equal, maybe O-line too); scoring way more points with better offensive drives would mean, IMO, the Ticats have wayyyyy smarter offensive coaches - play-book & calling.

Ticats have IMO a very solid D, but the Argos can play solid there too but are vulnerable in the D-backfield (injury status with Gabriel & Smith, Hawkins ?) = Ticats have an advantage with a better D AND ... better return game if Banks is healthy; kicking game is the big question mark; IF Waters is back and good to go - Argos are as good or better, especially big advantage in punting: Medlock is a very accurate FG kicker but a lousy punter (Kenty going to stick with him as a punter in the play-offs?)

So ... Arrrrrrrrrrrrrgooos win easily ;o) - picked up my tickets today to cheer them on in the East final at Lansdowne on the 22nd !!!

[1971GreyCup]

I am hoping QB Mitchell Gale doesn't come back to haunt us. He has the arm, and as played plenty against our defence. I expect Kent Austen will do whatever it takes to blow this open and try and take momentum early. Last 4 games against us (2014/15) he was very successful. Gable will see the ball plenty.

[OV Argo]

I am hoping QB Mitchell Gale doesn't come back to haunt us. He has the arm, and as played plenty against our defence. I expect Kent Austen will do whatever it takes to blow this open and try and take momentum early. Last 4 games against us (2014/15) he was very successful. Gable will see the ball plenty.


??? - if Kenty had any intention of playing Gale at QB he surely would have gone to him in the Ottawa game rather than going with Harris & Mazoli

[AngeloV]

??? - if Kenty had any intention of playing Gale at QB he surely would have gone to him in the Ottawa game rather than going with Harris & Mazoli

Agreed. I said at the time the Cats signed him, the only way Gale sees the field is if both Harris and Masoli get injured. For starters, there is no way he will get any serious practice reps.

[ArgoGabe22]

??? - if Kenty had any intention of playing Gale at QB he surely would have gone to him in the Ottawa game rather than going with Harris & Mazoli

But it may be painful to watch Gale get first downs on a sneak (if they even use him) while McPherson struggles to do so.

[AngeloV]

But it may be painful to watch Gale get first downs on a sneak (if they even use him) while McPherson struggles to do so.

That's got a lot more to do with lack of push from the line than it does the QB. McPherson was awesome at that when he played for the Als.

[ArgoRavi]

You are right. But that is such an outlier. If you win the turnover battle like that you should win 99% of the time. 2 missed FGS by Toronto cost them. Rogers is long gone.

Furthermore, the Argos had two consecutive B.C. drives where they all but handed the Lions TDs because of stupid penalties. They can't do that against the Ticats either. The good news is that I believe the Argos only had two penalties called against them against Winnipeg so hopefully that is the start of a new trend.

[PullTogether73]

I think our defense has it's shit together a little better than Ottawa.

????
Since that statement is unsupported by any statistic of defensive play this year, you'll have to explain how you come to that conclusion!

[R.J]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Argos?src=hash">#Argos</a> coach Milanovich says receiver Kevin Elliott will not play vs Hamilton this week. Suffered LBI vs Winn. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFL?src=hash">#CFL</a></p>&mdash; Mike Hogan (@tsnmikehogan) <a href="https://twitter.com/tsnmikehogan/status/664154147231539201">November 10, 2015</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Argos?src=hash">#Argos</a> coach Milanovich says ST ace Brian Rolle should be back and LB Cory Greenwood has been cleared to play. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFL?src=hash">#CFL</a></p>&mdash; Mike Hogan (@tsnmikehogan) <a href="https://twitter.com/tsnmikehogan/status/664160987382091776">November 10, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[AngeloV]

I love Greenwood, but I wouldn't start him over Miles at this point. Miles is playing great, and we have no idea if Greenwood can pick up where he left off after all that inactivity.

[R.J]

I love Greenwood, but I wouldn't start him over Miles at this point. Miles is playing great, and we have no idea if Greenwood can pick up where he left off after all that inactivity.
Yeah, I saw your reply tweet to Hogie and I agree. I don't think there's a bigger Greenwood fan around these parts, but Miles has played well, we don't know if Greenwood returns to form starting from the first snap and TBH nothing wrong with sitting Greenwood out longer considering his concussion history this season. Miles is playing well, not much if any drop off, so he should start IMO.

[paulwoods13]

Yeah, I saw your reply tweet to Hogie and I agree. I don't think there's a bigger Greenwood fan around these parts, but Miles has played well, we don't know if Greenwood returns to form starting from the first snap and TBH nothing wrong with sitting Greenwood out longer considering his concussion history this season. Miles is playing well, not much if any drop off, so he should start IMO.

I agree as well.

[ArgoRavi]

Yeah, I saw your reply tweet to Hogie and I agree. I don't think there's a bigger Greenwood fan around these parts, but Miles has played well, we don't know if Greenwood returns to form starting from the first snap and TBH nothing wrong with sitting Greenwood out longer considering his concussion history this season. Miles is playing well, not much if any drop off, so he should start IMO.

I also agree. I didn't think that Greenwood was quite the same after the first concussion he suffered this season in Hamilton in August. He then came back and played two games IIRC before becoming concussed again on Labour Day

[gilthethrill]

Miles should start, maybe Greenwood can play specials....question, I am pretty sure kickoff is at 1pm Sunday, but why does CFL.ca list kickoff as TBD? Weather looks nice with 8 degrees with a 20km wind.

[Neely2005]

Miles should start, maybe Greenwood can play specials....question, I am pretty sure kickoff is at 1pm Sunday, but why does CFL.ca list kickoff as TBD? Weather looks nice with 8 degrees with a 20km wind.

Kickoff is at 1 PM. At one point it was saying 1 AM so maybe they're in the process of fixing it.

[1argoholic]

Miles has been a great find and needs to play. Love Greenwood though. Good issues to have.

[Scooter McCray]

Kevin Elliott aside this may be the healthiest the Argos have been all year. They can stack their special teams with great cover guys and set up their own return game. Lots of options and packages on O and D with all of the Cdn depth now available. Probably one of the reasons practice is closed. I think we might see some new stuff like double backfield, empty backfield with full receivers with wind. Harris and Ray. Argos have a shot.

[1argoholic]

I like the way you think Scooter. I hope Milanovich tosses in a whole whack of wrinkles. What do they have to lose. I'd like to see the fumblerooski or however it's spelled.

[Scooter McCray]

Everybody talks about Hamilton D and Steinauers packages. I think it's time we confused the hell out of everyone. Nobody expects us to win at THF. All of these players have a huge chip on their shoulder and want to get this monkey off their back. Time to go big or go home.

[R.J]

http://www.cfl.ca/article/2015esf

[Stevoman]

I have been very vocal about investing in Harris but I am entirely okay with Ray in this game, provided it's a shorter leash than usual should he falter, but I honestly think that Ray will have one of his best games as an Argo and get their first win at Tim Horton's.

[1971GreyCup]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Trying to figure out a way to get to the <a href="https://twitter.com/TorontoArgos">@TorontoArgos</a> game on sunday from Newmarket....</p>&mdash; Darson Simair (@DarsonSimair1) <a href="https://twitter.com/DarsonSimair1/status/664659773095337984">November 12, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Superfan Darson is looking to see if anyone is going to Sunday's playoff game from Sutton, up east of Newmarket. Darson is in a wheelchair and took the Go Bus and Local transit to the last Hamilton game from Keele St & Highway 7. Just checking to see if anyone is heading to the game from that area.

[ArgoFan1]

I he is stuck, I would go out of my way to pick him up. Does he have a ticket already?

[1971GreyCup]

I he is stuck, I would go out of my way to pick him up. Does he have a ticket already?

I don't know. You can tweet him. Are you out that way?

[ArgoFan1]

I have no clue about tweeting. Someone would have to connect the two of us via email, or phone numbers. I don't live in the area, but I have a van, and it can travel great distances. Doesn't matter where I live. I am offering.

[Fumblitis]

I have been very vocal about investing in Harris but I am entirely okay with Ray in this game, provided it's a shorter leash than usual should he falter, but I honestly think that Ray will have one of his best games as an Argo and get their first win at Tim Horton's.A one/two punch with Ray and Harris would propel the Argos into Winnipeg on Nov 29 in my opinion.

[gilthethrill]

Frank Z is reporting today that Hazelton is likely out with a groin issue. So, starting Receivers are likely Gurley, Spencer, Bates, Owens & Coombs. Could this report, if true, open up an import spot for Kackert?

[AngeloV]

Frank Z is reporting today that Hazelton is likely out with a groin issue. So, starting Receivers are likely Gurley, Spencer, Bates, Owens & Coombs. Could this report, if true, open up an import spot for Kackert?

Milanovich also said after practice yesterday that it is very unlikely he would dress all 3 RB's. Having said that, listening to him, I really would not rule out Kackert in the line-up now. I honestly thought there was no chance of it, but with Rolle and Greenwood returning to give their ST's a boost, I'm starting to think Steele will be the odd man out.

[gilthethrill]

Milanovich also said after practice yesterday that it is very unlikely he would dress all 3 RB's. Having said that, listening to him, I really would not rule out Kackert in the line-up now. I honestly thought there was no chance of it, but with Rolle and Greenwood returning to give their ST's a boost, I'm starting to think Steele will be the odd man out.

Although Sunday will be warm, The Weather Network predicts 30km winds, so a running game will be really important. I also thought Kackert had a bit of spark on KR in limited duty this season. I must admit though, I am biased towards 44.

[1argoholic]

We need Kack as he doesn't just juke and jive he likes to power right into guys. It would be nice to see him drop his shoulder into a few db's.

I see Hamilton wearing those all blackish grey uniforms with the peeling helmet stickers. They seem to like the third blackout jersey. I really hope TO doesn't wear those horrible third jersey's from last year. The things are just plain suited for something like a Disney kids movie.

[paulwoods13]

I hope we wear our all-whites: white jerseys, white pants and the alternative white helmet. It's our best look this year and has been pretty lucky.


Milanovich also said after practice yesterday that it is very unlikely he would dress all 3 RB's. Having said that, listening to him, I really would not rule out Kackert in the line-up now. I honestly thought there was no chance of it, but with Rolle and Greenwood returning to give their ST's a boost, I'm starting to think Steele will be the odd man out.

Yeah, I think that is possible as well. STs are potentially in good hands with Rolle and Greenwood back in.

[Double Dare]

With or without purses Argoholic?

[Neely2005]

Milanovich also said after practice yesterday that it is very unlikely he would dress all 3 RB's. Having said that, listening to him, I really would not rule out Kackert in the line-up now. I honestly thought there was no chance of it, but with Rolle and Greenwood returning to give their ST's a boost, I'm starting to think Steele will be the odd man out.

I know that not everyone agrees but I would dress Kackert over Steele.

[ArgoRavi]

Frank Z is reporting today that Hazelton is likely out with a groin issue. So, starting Receivers are likely Gurley, Spencer, Bates, Owens & Coombs. Could this report, if true, open up an import spot for Kackert?

It could. On top of that, we may see more of Sticky Stala in the receiving corps too.

[Bleeds Double Blue]

ArgoFan1, you are a class act for offering to help Darson.

[AngeloV]

ArgoFan1, you are a class act for offering to help Darson.

+1 on this. One of the nicest gestures I can think of.

[Neely2005]

ArgoFan1, you are a class act for offering to help Darson.

Yeah that's super cool.

[1971GreyCup]

I have no clue about tweeting. Someone would have to connect the two of us via email, or phone numbers. I don't live in the area, but I have a van, and it can travel great distances. Doesn't matter where I live. I am offering.

ArgoFan1, I put the offer out to him via Twitter message. I'll get his contact information to you if/when he takes you up on the offer. I don't think tickets are an issue as the Special Needs areas have lots of space dedicated for wheelchairs. I think it is very cool that these areas all have Smartphone charging stations at THF. I noticed these talking with Darson at the last game.

[R.J]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/RedBlacks?src=hash">#RedBlacks</a> have sold out the East final at TD Place. The <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Ticats?src=hash">#Ticats</a> still have some seats left for the semifinal. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFL?src=hash">#CFL</a></p>&mdash; Kirk Penton (@PentonKirk) <a href="https://twitter.com/PentonKirk/status/665276940773912577">November 13, 2015</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Referee for East Semi-Final between <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Ticats?src=hash">#Ticats</a> &amp; <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Argos?src=hash">#Argos</a> will be: Andre Proulx.
And no, I'm not kidding.
<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFL?src=hash">#CFL</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/EDSF?src=hash">#EDSF</a></p>&mdash; Drew Edwards (@scratchingpost) <a href="https://twitter.com/scratchingpost/status/665266970699415553">November 13, 2015</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/TIcats?src=hash">#TIcats</a> Kent Austin confirms that Jeremiah Masoli starts at QB vs. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Argos?src=hash">#Argos</a> in the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFL?src=hash">#CFL</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/EDSF?src=hash">#EDSF</a></p>&mdash; Drew Edwards (@scratchingpost) <a href="https://twitter.com/scratchingpost/status/665233833453887493">November 13, 2015</a></blockquote>
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Clemons on TSN Gameday with Wheeler and Cauz.
http://www.tsn.ca/radio/toronto-1050/clemons-argos-like-their-chances-vs-ticats-1.392575

Argos receving depth paying off.
http://www.tsn.ca/argos-receiving-depth-paying-off-1.392910

Milanovich: "We're preparing for all of them"
http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/video/milanovich-we-re-preparing-for-all-of-them~748062

http://www.thespec.com/sports-story/6110633-milton-this-time-the-argos-are-well-armed/
http://www.thestar.com/sports/argos/2015/11/10/cfl-all-star-and-toronto-argo-brandon-whitaker-just-keeps-on-running-to-daylight.html
http://www.thestar.com/sports/argos/2015/11/12/argos-look-to-end-curse-of-tim-hortons-field.html
http://www.torontosun.com/2015/11/11/argos-feeling-better-about-themselves
http://www.torontosun.com/2015/11/12/argonauts-not-worried-about-inexperience

[R.J]

Looks like Greenwood will get the start.
http://www.tsn.ca/argos-lb-greenwood-ready-to-play-sunday-1.393261

[Argo]

Frank Z is reporting today that Hazelton is likely out with a groin issue. So, starting Receivers are likely Gurley, Spencer, Bates, Owens & Coombs. Could this report, if true, open up an import spot for Kackert?

Q: How do the Argonauts complete a 50 yard pass play?
A: Send Bates out 15 yards, where he catches the ball and contacts the first would-be tackler.

It's unfortunate that Hazelton likely won't play due to injury. Even so, the Argos field a formidable receiver corps.

Regarding Kackert, I feel that he has to play - if he's still got it, what he's got cannot be coached - and only be swapped out if the team wins and he fails to impress.

[1971GreyCup]

I he is stuck, I would go out of my way to pick him up. Does he have a ticket already?

656

It looks like he'll stay home for this game. Thanks.

[OV Argo]

Looks like Greenwood will get the start.
http://www.tsn.ca/argos-lb-greenwood-ready-to-play-sunday-1.393261

Interesting - Miles has been very good IMO, but Greenwood has way more pro experience and might have more of that cover ability that Millanovich mentioned. The Ticats pose no serious run threat - if i was the Argos D boss, I'd be thinking of an extra DB on the field lots to replace a linebacker - double up on their favored target Tasker and pay lots of attention to Fantuz too, and make their young & inexperienced QB (s) beat you with downfield passing - which I figure they would fail at miserably if they tried.

Nice to have Greenwood there for special teams coverage too - he was accomplished there in the NFL; if him and another starter like Jones have to be keys on special teams = so be it, and you play all your best players in situations where needed when it is time to win the big game. Greenwood's presence could be a huge factor if he is ready to go with no rust.

[ArgoFan1]

656

It looks like he'll stay home for this game. Thanks.

Hopefully he didn't give it away before he knew of any offers for a ride.
Enjoy the game wherever you watch it from. I think this one is going to be a good one.

[ArgoFan1]

Says Ottawa has sold out for the Final next Sunday. What happens when the Argos win and go there? Will there be any tickets left in reserve for Argo fans??? I am hoping to be able to go.

[gilthethrill]

Interesting - Miles has been very good IMO, but Greenwood has way more pro experience and might have more of that cover ability that Millanovich mentioned. The Ticats pose no serious run threat - if i was the Argos D boss, I'd be thinking of an extra DB on the field lots to replace a linebacker - double up on their favored target Tasker and pay lots of attention to Fantuz too, and make their young & inexperienced QB (s) beat you with downfield passing - which I figure they would fail at miserably if they tried

Nice to have Greenwood there for special teams coverage too - he was accomplished there in the NFL; if him and another starter like Jones have to be keys on special teams = so be it, and you play all your best players in situations where needed when it is time to win the big game. Greenwood's presence could be a huge factor if he is ready to go with no rust.

OV I disagree about Hamilton not having a run threat. I fully expect Hamilton to execute fly sweeps with Banks and Stinkfield (not a typo)...in addition I hope Creehan can have the D prepared for the Highschool qb run package that Masoli runs. If they can force that short stuff qb to throw the ball, even the Argo defensive backfield should finally be able to cover the receivers.

I read in an article this past week that Taylor Reed can't cover....get Whittaker matched up on him.

[AngeloV]

OV I disagree about Hamilton not having a run threat. I fully expect Hamilton to execute fly sweeps with Banks and Stinkfield (not a typo)...in addition I hope Creehan can have the D prepared for the Highschool qb run package that Masoli runs. If they can force that short stuff qb to throw the ball, even the Argo defensive backfield should finally be able to cover the receivers.

I read in an article this past week that Taylor Reed can't cover....get Whittaker matched up on him.

How can you get Stinkfield's name right, but not TARA Reed? We won;t even get into Bukkake Grant.

[gilthethrill]

How can you get Stinkfield's name right, but not TARA Reed? We won;t even get into Bukkake Grant.

I feel I have earned a reputation on this forum for doing things half-assed AV.

[OV Argo]

OV I disagree about Hamilton not having a run threat. I fully expect Hamilton to execute fly sweeps with Banks and Stinkfield (not a typo)...in addition I hope Creehan can have the D prepared for the Highschool qb run package that Masoli runs. If they can force that short stuff qb to throw the ball, even the Argo defensive backfield should finally be able to cover the receivers.

I read in an article this past week that Taylor Reed can't cover....get Whittaker matched up on him.

Oh, they might try some fly sweeps or other run plays to Sinkfield or Banks; and they may have some designed QB run calls too; but no way in hell a Kenty coached team game plans a strong ground game to win and stick with mostly run play-calling. It will be typical CFL 75% or more pass play calls - from both teams - and I'd bet heavily on this. And gee, I wonder who should have the advantage there ? - the Argos led by a HOFer type QB with a very capable young QB in reserve; or the Ticats QB'd by the likes of a Masoli or one of other clowns they could trot out ?

[Argo]

I'm going to this game and will be sitting in Section 116.

Questions:

1. What's the best (price and availability) place to park, assuming that I arrive by 12 noon?
2. How much glare do you have to deal with sitting in the East stand on a sunny afternoon?
3. Who is going and is there any plan for getting together before the game or at half-time ?

I like the Argos chances and I'm looking forward to a good game of CFL football !

[ArgoFan1]

If you want to spend time tailgating, the best spot I've found, since you cannot park in Scott Park any more if not a season ticket holder, is a parking lot on Chapple Street, just North of Barton. Right behind the big church. Milanovich and Barker always park there. If you are not spending too much time before the game meeting with other fans in the parking lot, just park in someone's driveway or lawn. They charge more the closer you are to the stadium. You could try some residential streets farther away and take a long walk if you can find a place and park for free. To park anywhere near the stadium you are looking at $10 to$ 20.

[Wobbler]

Oh, they might try some fly sweeps or other run plays to Sinkfield or Banks; and they may have some designed QB run calls too; but no way in hell a Kenty coached team game plans a strong ground game to win and stick with mostly run play-calling. It will be typical CFL 75% or more pass play calls - from both teams - and I'd bet heavily on this. And gee, I wonder who should have the advantage there ? - the Argos led by a HOFer type QB with a very capable young QB in reserve; or the Ticats QB'd by the likes of a Masoli or one of other clowns they could trot out ?
I don't think "mostly run play-calling" has existed in professional football for a while, so yeah, that's not on the table. But Masoli is an excellent runner and loves to carry the ball. In addition to whatever designated run plays are called for him, I expect him to improvise a few run plays too. Fortunately we're pretty good against the run, but I wouldn't be in a hurry to sub out of our standard formations.

[Argo]

If you want to spend time tailgating, the best spot I've found, since you cannot park in Scott Park any more if not a season ticket holder, is a parking lot on Chapple Street, just North of Barton. Right behind the big church. Milanovich and Barker always park there. If you are not spending too much time before the game meeting with other fans in the parking lot, just park in someone's driveway or lawn. They charge more the closer you are to the stadium. You could try some residential streets farther away and take a long walk if you can find a place and park for free. To park anywhere near the stadium you are looking at $10 to$ 20.

Thanks for this info.

[Wobbler]

Depth chart (http://cfl.uploads.mrx.ca/league/pdf/en/depth/2015/ESF_Depth_Chart_TOR_HAM111740.pdf)

Green starts for Smith, Greenwood starts at WIL, VZ is back at RT, and Kackert is on the roster (no Steele). Gurley is listed as the boundary WR, which I think is a first for him. I'm curious to see what he can do with the (presumably) extra attention.

Oh, and Gabriel and Rolle are back, as I think was expected.

[R.J]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Who&#39;s in &amp; who&#39;s out? We&#39;ve released our depth chart ahead of tomorrow&#39;s Eastern Semi-Final in Hamilton. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Argos?src=hash">#Argos</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFL?src=hash">#CFL</a> <a href="https://t.co/sfkgW01iCT">pic.twitter.com/sfkgW01iCT</a></p>&mdash; Toronto Argonauts (@TorontoArgos) <a href="https://twitter.com/TorontoArgos/status/665595712701353984">November 14, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[gilthethrill]

I could not help but notice that Marc Dile, a TC cut of Winnipeg, who has not played all year, is filling in for Jeremy Lewis at RT....the Argos must exploit this...repeatedly. Glad to see Kackert make the roster, hope he is able to get some carries.

[PullTogether73]

OV I disagree about Hamilton not having a run threat. I fully expect Hamilton to execute fly sweeps with Banks and Stinkfield (not a typo)...in addition I hope Creehan can have the D prepared for the Highschool qb run package that Masoli runs. If they can force that short stuff qb to throw the ball, even the Argo defensive backfield should finally be able to cover the receivers.

I read in an article this past week that Taylor Reed can't cover....get Whittaker matched up on him.

I just hope the Argos don't lose possession on another onside punt.
I still can't believe that Ottawa did that last week after seeing the Cats do it to the Argos earlier this season.

[gilthethrill]

I just hope the Argos don't lose possession on another onside punt.
I still can't believe that Ottawa did that last week after seeing the Cats do it to the Argos earlier this season.

Last week Hamilton played all their cards while the Argos were able to play vanilla. This should have allowed Milanovich and staff to study film all week and be prepared for any thing.

[AngeloV]

I just hope the Argos don't lose possession on another onside punt.
I still can't believe that Ottawa did that last week after seeing the Cats do it to the Argos earlier this season.

Funny thing is, I don't think Ottawa was fooled by the onside punt as much as they just misplayed it.

[argolio]

I don't think "mostly run play-calling" has existed in professional football for a while, so yeah, that's not on the table. But Masoli is an excellent runner and loves to carry the ball. In addition to whatever designated run plays are called for him, I expect him to improvise a few run plays too. Fortunately we're pretty good against the run, but I wouldn't be in a hurry to sub out of our standard formations.He's an excellent runner, but he's also had fumbling issues. Hope that continues.

[1971GreyCup]

I'm going to this game and will be sitting in Section 116.

Questions:

1. What's the best (price and availability) place to park, assuming that I arrive by 12 noon?
2. How much glare do you have to deal with sitting in the East stand on a sunny afternoon?
3. Who is going and is there any plan for getting together before the game or at half-time ?

I like the Argos chances and I'm looking forward to a good game of CFL football !

We have parked for free on King Street past Holton Street. Easy walk to
THF and drive directly towards 406.

658

["Issues"Mcgee]

Argos have to play disciplined football in order to win this. I can see this game turning into a scrappy dogfight at the drop of a hat...

[R.J]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">DEPTH CHART: Here’s how the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Ticats?src=hash">#Ticats</a> will take the field against the <a href="https://twitter.com/TorontoArgos">@TorontoArgos</a> in Sunday&#39;s <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/GCPlayoffs?src=hash">#GCPlayoffs</a> game. <a href="https://t.co/64gOHln8ML">pic.twitter.com/64gOHln8ML</a></p>&mdash; Hamilton Tiger-Cats (@Ticats) <a href="https://twitter.com/Ticats/status/665546618406641664">November 14, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[1971GreyCup]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Who's in &amp; who's out? We've released our depth chart ahead of tomorrow's Eastern Semi-Final in Hamilton. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Argos?src=hash">#Argos</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFL?src=hash">#CFL</a> <a href="https://t.co/sfkgW01iCT">pic.twitter.com/sfkgW01iCT</a></p>&mdash; Toronto Argonauts (@TorontoArgos) <a href="https://twitter.com/TorontoArgos/status/665595712701353984">November 14, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I really like the team we're fielding tomorrow!

Kackert and Whitaker gives us lots of offence and pass blocking strength.

ST look as a strong as they have been all season.

Ricky Ray starting after some work last week gives us as good a chance as we can expect.

On D, I hope DC Creehan dials up some creative D tomorrow. Let's go after their young QBs and make it a long day for them. Win or lose, let's do it aggressively. Don't want to go down with that bend and not break philosophy!

We'll be right behind the Argos bench, "Loud and Proud" tomorrow!

Remember Nelson at the Battle of Trafalger:

"The measure may be thought bold, but I am of the opinion the boldest are the safest."

[ArgoRavi]

He's an excellent runner, but he's also had fumbling issues. Hope that continues.

Which is why I don't think that Austin has much faith in Masoli. Clearly, Austin doesn't have much faith in Harris either considering that he pulled him so quickly last week and seemed to be upset with him on the sidelines. I hope that we see steam coming out of Austin's ears on a regular basis on Sunday.

[Wobbler]

I'm going to be a bit annoyed if they don't do a moment of silence for Paris tomorrow. Fortunately, that doesn't seem like the sort of thing that would be overlooked.

[PullTogether73]

I really like the team we're fielding tomorrow!

Kackert and Whitaker gives us lots of offence and pass blocking strength.

ST look as a strong as they have been all season.

Ricky Ray starting after some work last week gives us as good a chance as we can expect.

On D, I hope DC Creehan dials up some creative D tomorrow. Let's go after their young QBs and make it a long day for them. Win or lose, let's do it aggressively. Don't want to go down with that bend and not break philosophy!

We'll be right behind the Argos bench, "Loud and Proud" tomorrow!

Remember Nelson at the Battle of Trafalger:

"The measure may be thought bold, but I am of the opinion the boldest are the safest."

Totally agree with your assessment!
This game is definitely winnable by the Argos, but there is little margin for error.

[Argo]

We have parked for free on King Street past Holton Street. Easy walk to
THF and drive directly towards 406.

658

Thanks!

[timlb01]

Totally agree with your assessment!
This game is definitely winnable by the Argos, but there is little margin for error.

Earlier in the week I didn't think they would dress Kackert but I watched the Winnipeg game that I PVR'd and he deserved the start. Love how he runs. I am really looked forward to the game tomorrow. Cannot wait!!!!

[Argos1983]

Let's hope that the Kack Attack is back!!

[Argo]

Good stuff:
http://3downnation.com/2015/11/14/the-day-before-ticats-v-argos-news-notes-and-a-preview-vid/

[Argo]

Depth chart (http://cfl.uploads.mrx.ca/league/pdf/en/depth/2015/ESF_Depth_Chart_TOR_HAM111740.pdf)

Green starts for Smith, Greenwood starts at WIL, VZ is back at RT, and Kackert is on the roster (no Steele). Gurley is listed as the boundary WR, which I think is a first for him. I'm curious to see what he can do with the (presumably) extra attention.

Oh, and Gabriel and Rolle are back, as I think was expected.

So Hazelton will play. Good news.

[paulwoods13]

So Hazelton will play. Good news.

Don't know about that. One INT on the depth chart has to sit, and unless something has changed in the past day I think it will be him.

[Neely2005]

http://www.cbc.ca/m/sports/football/cfl/toronto-argos-hamilton-tiger-cats-1.3317168

[1argoholic]

I'll have to ignore my two buddies today especially Sneaky Dee the Tiger Cat look alike even though they are both Lions fans. They were born in Duncan BC.

659

[1argoholic]

Well I'm excited as we're two hours away from kickoff. Sweet day up in the woods north of Warsaw and Norwood so I expect it'll be sweet for all in Hamilton today.

Here's hoping we can keep the penalties, turnovers and Banks in check. If so we could take the crowd out of it and have a shot for our first win at the Tim's.

[ArgofanIan]

This would have been great to be at BMO for a home playoff game today..... The weather is perfect... it should be good conditions at THF.... looking forward to next year down by the lake... should be a very interesting game.... Go ARGOS !

[gilthethrill]

I'm getting all fired up.......

[ArgoRavi]

Don't know about that. One INT on the depth chart has to sit, and unless something has changed in the past day I think it will be him.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The following <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Argos?src=hash">#Argos</a> will be INACTIVE for today&#39;s <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/GCPlayoffs?src=hash">#GCPlayoffs</a>: WR Vidal Hazelton WR Natey Adjei</p>&mdash; Toronto Argonauts (@TorontoArgos) <a href="https://twitter.com/TorontoArgos/status/665944969191038976">November 15, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[1argoholic]

I guess Elliott is indeed injured today as well. I've heard zero about him. Key guys injured.

[Fumblitis]

I see Andre Prouxl is off to a running start flagging the first play.

[1argoholic]

So far it looks like typical Argo ball at Tim's. Not sure what that McPherson stuff was supposed to do.

[Fumblitis]

Not sure why Waters didn't just jump on the ball.

[argotom]

I called previously for Milanovich to run packages for Harris, but who would have thought after the first half the run and decide with a pass would have involved MaCpherson?

[1argoholic]

Agreed with that Waters deal. What's with McPherson? I guess we'll see Harris as well. Hey if it works I don't care.

[argotom]

Ray looks tentative so far.

[1argoholic]

Ray looks horrible so far.

[Fumblitis]

Maybe McPherson is in as wrinkle to keep Hamiltons defence off balance being that McPherson has that running threat.

[argotom]

A better offensive possession aided by several penalties.

[jerrym]

Whitaker scores on second effort!

[jerrym]

Argos better start focusing on hang time on kickoffs to Brandon Banks instead of distance.

[jerrym]

Van Roten saves Ray with a fumble recovery.

[1argoholic]

We need a true good young returner next year. Chad's heart isn't into like it used to be. He lets it bounce way too much.

This game is stressful.

[argotom]

Both QB's were horrid, you would think Ray as a veteran would not have taken that loss of down on the time count.
I would throw Harris in the second half, but HC probably wont.

[1argoholic]

Ray thought he got that ball snapped in time but he's his best when he can toss it down field. He still doesn't look himself. You can't miss that much ball and feel great right away. We need more. This is one Banks return away from a loss. Waters doesn't look great either. Hope we can do enough to pull this out.

[Fumblitis]

Both QB's were horrid, you would think Ray as a veteran would not have taken that loss of down on the time count.
I would throw Harris in the second half, but HC probably wont.Nope not with the score being this close.

[argotom]

Banks does look like he will break one.

[ArgoZ]

Both QB's were horrid, you would think Ray as a veteran would not have taken that loss of down on the time count.
I would throw Harris in the second half, but HC probably wont.

Argos are leading at the half. As far as I am concerned, it's mission accomplished. One positive is that Ray threw no picks. If they keep playing smart and carefull, they can pull this off.

[OV Argo]

1st half notes:

Good to have a lead but IMO it should be much more in a match-up of Ray vs, Masoli

- good to see some run game by the Argos, but why dress Kackert and give him no opportunity to break a big run?
- need more vertical passing - can't believe Ray did not see a wide-open Gurley for an easy TD on that one play?
- Dupuis is a monster of a blocker out of fullback/H-back - pan-caked Norwood on that best pass of the 1st half to Owens, and then took out the MLB Reed on Whitaker's TD run
D should be punishing Masoli more when he runs; Jones disappointed in a couple of shots to smoke him, let alone stop him for a short gain; Greenwood is playing very solid - nice to have him back

[jerrym]

We need a true good young returner next year. Chad's heart isn't into like it used to be. He lets it bounce way too much.

This game is stressful.

I don't think it's a matter of his heart not being in it. He's still as competitive as hell as can be seen even on the sidelines by his body language. However, I agree we need a new young returner as Owens is 33 and some of his speed is gone.

[Wobbler]

So far it looks like typical Argo ball at Tim's. Not sure what that McPherson stuff was supposed to do.
I really like what they've done with McPherson and I'd like to see more of it, especially if we can get ahead by a couple of scores.

(And now we know why practice was closed this week)

[jerrym]

Great to see Greenwood back patrolling on defence and making tackles.

[argotom]

Argos are leading at the half. As far as I am concerned, it's mission accomplished. One positive is that Ray threw no picks. If they keep playing smart and carefull, they can pull this off.


We should be way ahead.

[ArgoZ]

We should be way ahead.
I don't see it that way. Both teams missed opportunities. If anything, the game could be more high scoring for both teams and an almost identical spread.

[jerrym]

Ray's arm not all the way back as seen on the interception.

[Fumblitis]

I don't see it that way. Both teams missed opportunities. If anything, the game could be more high scoring for both teams and an almost identical spread.If Masoli was a vet Hamilton might be ahead because his Oline is playing lights out.

["Issues"Mcgee]

I wouldn't say Ray looks terrible. Reluctant? Definitely. If they put Harris in, they might as well just hit the golf course instead of playing out the second half.

[jerrym]

Owusu-Ansah gets it back with much better field position!

[Fumblitis]

I wouldn't say Ray looks terrible. Reluctant? Definitely. If they put Harris in, they might as well just hit the golf course instead of playing out the second half.He looks rusty.

[jerrym]

Banks has another big return. Like I said already we need to focus on hang time against him.

[jerrym]

Jacory Harris is coming in for Hamilton. The change of pace could help them.

[jerrym]

Greenwood goes over the top to stop the Ticats on third and one.

[argotom]

I wouldn't say Ray looks terrible. Reluctant? Definitely. If they put Harris in, they might as well just hit the golf course instead of playing out the second half.


That makes no sense the team's MOP?

[jerrym]

Isaac down and Okapalaugo limping on same play. Hopefully the injuries are not serious and they will be back in the game soon. Otherwise Ticats may exploit their absence.

[jerrym]

I hope Ray gets going and scores some points with the wind. A five point lead against the wind in the fourth is pretty precarious.

[jerrym]

Spencer makes a great catch and shows once again why he should be a full-time regular for the rest of this year and next both with his receiving and returning skills.

[jerrym]

The old men Ray and Owens come through with a TD!

[argotom]

That's more like it.

[argotom]

The D has to step it up now with the running game moving for the Cats.

[argotom]

Oh oh a surprise throw from Masoli, we might have a game after all.

[jerrym]

Where was the Argo coverage on the Ticat TD?

[Fumblitis]

Ricky's getting into a bit of a rhythum now.

[1argoholic]

Stressful to say the least. Waters miss. We're keeping Hamilton in this. Setting up for major heartbreak either way.

Prime example of how Owens has changed. He lets that friggin punt bounce for no good reason and we have crap field position again.

[jerrym]

Starting on the 15 with only a six point lead and going against the wind, the Argos badly need some first downs.

[jerrym]

I don't like going to McPherson and then bringing Ray in when in a clear passing down. Leave Ray in to give the Argo's the best chance at first down.

[jerrym]

Whitaker going not only hurt with his loss, but he looked liked he was going to have at least a decent run. Now the Argos give up two as their lead looks increasingly precarious.

[jerrym]

Another bad penalty at a critical point in a game.

[argotom]

The D is getting tired with all of the running game against it, look out for that pass?

[jerrym]

The Argos are leaving big holes on play after play on the kickoff and subsequent plays.

[Wobbler]

I don't like going to McPherson and then bringing Ray in when in a clear passing down. Leave Ray in to give the Argo's the best chance at first down.
I agree with the first part, but I would have left McPherson in instead.

[1argoholic]

Doesn't look good at all. We just struggle in this stadium. No way Hamilton should be in the lead with Masola at qb. This team has a way of looking like it brings squirt guns to a gun fight.

[jerrym]

You could feel the lead slipping away from when Massoli reentered the game and the Argo offence didn't immediately respond.

[1argoholic]

Waters we need you. HOLY SHITE I didn't realize we were playing at Mosaic. See the wind take that ball. We're almost done.

[jerrym]

Two Argos colliding near the goal line on a catchable ball could end up being the biggest play of the year for the Argos (and symbolic of much that has happened this season).

[Fumblitis]

Again!

[Neely2005]

Not looking good. I figured that the wind would be a deciding factor in the 4th.

[jerrym]

Waters makes the FG for a tie!

[1argoholic]

Why do i put myself through this crap? Waters ties it.

Really. Roughing the passer. We're pretty much F'ed here.

This team is just not good enough and I expected to lose but not like that. Oh and Screw Tims Hortons. Hate the coffee, donuts and the stadium.

Go Ottawa Go. You're set up nicely to be in the Cup.

[jerrym]

Wright what in the world were you thunking?

[jerrym]

Like I said this game was slipping away from when Massoli reentered the game.

[Wobbler]

The better team won. Congratulations, Hamilton.

[Neely2005]

2 missed Field Goals, again.

0 for 4 against Hamilton this season and still winless at THF.

[argotom]

Bottom line headline, a tale of two QB's as a fourth stringer beats a Hall of Fame #1.

[Neely2005]

The better team won. Congratulations, Hamilton.

Disagree. Hamilton was not the better team without Collaros. Waters 2 missed Field Goals and the wind were the deciding factor.

[gilthethrill]

2015 Argos were able to over come the absence of Ricky Ray for most of the season. They were able over come a brutal schedule.

They were not able to over come a Hamilton team led by Jeremiah Masoli. It will take a long time to get over this one.

[Neely2005]

Bottom line headline, a tale of two QB's as a fourth stringer beats a Hall of Fame #1.

Seriously give it a rest. We didn't lose because of Ray. We lost because of the kicking game and the wind.

[argotom]

I just heard Climie on the post game show and how true, Ricky didn't have time and looked uncomfortable in the pocket while Masoli had time and looked comfortable.


Seriously give it a rest. We didn't lose because of Ray. We lost because of the kicking game and the wind.


You give it a rest, that's reality.
Hey I picked our team to win today and I am just as much disappointed as the next guy.

[Argo57]

Disagree. Hamilton was not the better team without Collaros. Waters 2 missed Field Goals and the wind were the deciding factor.

They won the game and that's all that matters, Argonauts snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.
O-line not good enough, boneheaded penalties and inability to take advantage of the wind in the third and that's all she wrote.

[argotom]

They won the game and that's all that matters, Argonauts snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.
O-line not good enough, boneheaded penalties and inability to take advantage of the wind in the third and that's all she wrote.

Agreed.
We were the better team, should have scored more points.

[1argoholic]

O line BLEW. Why dress Kack and not use him? Ray didn't force two receivers to collide knocking the ball out on a sure td late. Ray didn't miss two fieldgoals. This team had key injuries all year. Rookies stepped up and then back with stupid penalties all year. Then another dumb penalty late. Frustrating year and I still wonder how he won 10 games. This wasn't a good team. Once again I expect to have to learn a whole new team of players next year because that's how we roll.

Time to get to work to fix this organization.

Go Stamps Go, Go Redblacks Go.

[OV Argo]

Bottom line headline, a tale of two QB's as a fourth stringer beats a Hall of Fame #1.

Exactly - just brutal & embarassing,

WTF ???

All sorts of let downs and poor plays: Waters has to make at least one of those missed FGs; Owens has to make that catch that might have helped set-up a game sealing TD; dumb penalties (WTF is that do nothing inexperienced DE Wright doing on the field in a critical time of the game to take that penalty ??? And why could Ray not throw the ball downfield more?

Ticats have a very good D, and along with a great FG kicker (55 yarder !!!) and a great returner in Banks, that really helped them win this game; but again - Masoli beating Ray in a QB match-up ? = just pathetic.

One of the most annoying Argo losses this long-time Argo fan has ever witnessed when there was just no excuse to lose this game to a Masoli QB'd team. Love to see Brady punted wayyyyyyyyy out of town - guy has no clue as an OC; and wouldn't be disappointed to see Millanovich & Barker go with him; but oops - already signed these football geniuses to extensions eh?

Watch Ottawa just smoke the Pussycats in the East final; no way their offence is as wimpy & stupid as the Argos version is.

[paulwoods13]

Bottom line: we cost ourselves a very winnable game. Two missed FGs, the screwup at the goal-line between Bates and Spencer, Owens dropping a catchable pass late, Wright's RTP penalty. There were five or six plays that if any one of them had turned out differently we would have won. Some of it was pure bad luck -- Owusu-Ansah falling down at an inopportune time. All incredibly frustrating, but that's football.

Beyond all that, our o-line can't compete with Hamilton's d-line. That's been evident for two seasons. Holmes had a particularly bad game, but pretty well the whole o-line had continual troubles. The defensive scheme was pretty good, but sloppy tackling in the fourth quarter really cost us.

Oh well, next year will be a lot better in so many ways as far as fan experience goes, and I expect the team to be better on the field as well.

[Gill The Thrill]

2 missed Field Goals, again.

0 for 4 against Hamilton this season and still winless at THF.

Placekickers from the south have not seen this type of wind too much kicking in November while growing up. The dome made Waters look terrific, however with accumulative injuries and moving outdoors it's time to find a kicker who's more accustomed to kicking in northern climates and in open air stadiums, now that every team in the east will be playing in smaller stadiums with winds that can rip through the stadium via the endzones. The sideline seating may be covered at BMO, but the endzones will be pretty open as they are in Hamilton and Ottawa.

The defense, particularly the secondary was the weak part of the defense all season. The Argos may have had a better record in 2015, than 2012, but that team was way better defensively and made the big stop when necessary. This Argo defence always sat back when given a lead and immediately did that today after the Argos got the TD to make it 18-6. Hamilton came back quickly and got a quick strike to a wide open Bakari Grant changing momentum immediately in their favour, when in reality, they should've been dead playing a backup and down 12 late in the 3rd quarter. This secondary relinquished big plays game after game after the Argos got TD's and this is why this season was never that comfortable with leads.

Credit Masoli, he displayed some composure, delivered some nice passes, made some runs and QB'd the Ticats to victory. He didn't just manage the game either, he made a difference when the Cats needed him to do that.

[ArgoRavi]

I just heard Climie on the post game show and how true, Ricky didn't have time and looked uncomfortable in the pocket while Masoli had time and looked comfortable.

Sorry, AT, but Masoli played like crap. He had one TD pass when the Argo DB slipped and did little else. This crap that TSN is spouting that Masoli had a "great game" is just that - crap. Ray played well enough for the Argos to win but Waters missed two FGs into the wind and the Argos took two huge major penalties in the fourth quarter - a facemask on Rolle which set up Masoli inside the Argo 30 yard line (after the Argos had conceded a safety) and the roughing the passer on Wright which seemed like a bit of a cheap call but not inconsistent with how that has been called all season. The other big difference in the game was special teams overall as the Ticats got much better returns from Banks than the Argos did from Owens/Kackert.

One other big play was Owens dropping that perfect pass from Ray in the final minute at the Ticat 20 yard line. He absolutely had to make that catch. Yes, Waters made the FG a couple of plays later but if Owens had made that catch, the game likely goes to OT at the worst and maybe the Argos go down and score the winning TD at the best. Ray really found his rhythm late in the 4th quarter but he wasn't helped by his receivers on a couple of occasions.

[argotom]

I just heard Schultzie on the post game show say "we just had a game where a guy named Masoli beat a guy named Ray"?


Sorry, AT, but Masoli played like crap. He had one TD pass when the Argo DB slipped and did little else. This crap that TSN is spouting that Masoli had a "great game" is just that - crap. Ray played well enough for the Argos to win but Waters missed two FGs into the wind and the Argos took two huge major penalties in the fourth quarter - a facemask on Rolle which set up Masoli inside the Argo 30 yard line (after the Argos had conceded a safety) and the roughing the passer on Wright which seemed like a bit of a cheap call but not inconsistent with how that has been called all season. The other big difference in the game was special teams overall as the Ticats got much better returns from Banks than the Argos did from Owens/Kackert.

One other big play was Owens dropping that perfect pass from Ray in the final minute at the Ticat 20 yard line. He absolutely had to make that catch. Yes, Waters made the FG a couple of plays later but if Owens had made that catch, the game likely goes to OT at the worst and maybe the Argos go down and score the winning TD at the best. Ray really found his rhythm late in the 4th quarter but he wasn't helped by his receivers on a couple of occasions.


The bottom line Ravi we should have won this game.
We just snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

[ArgoRavi]

O line BLEW. Why dress Kack and not use him? Ray didn't force two receivers to collide knocking the ball out on a sure td late. Ray didn't miss two fieldgoals. This team had key injuries all year. Rookies stepped up and then back with stupid penalties all year. Then another dumb penalty late. Frustrating year and I still wonder how he won 10 games. This wasn't a good team. Once again I expect to have to learn a whole new team of players next year because that's how we roll.

Time to get to work to fix this organization.

Go Stamps Go, Go Redblacks Go.

The Argos are a good team but not a championship-calibre team at this point. Anyway, a new era for the franchise will start in December and I believe that we will see an improved team with a chance to win the Grey Cup at home next year.


The bottom line Ravi we should have won this game.
We just snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

I agree but Ray is not the guy to blame for this loss. As Paul said, there were five or six plays that decided this game and Ray wasn't the problem on any of them.

[1argoholic]

Argonauts beat themselves. RAY DIDN"T FORCE THOSE TWO NUMMIES TO COLLIDE AT THE GOALINE DROPPING A SURE TD! What can a guy do when your players around you screw up. It's a TEAM game. Ray didn't miss TWO fieldgoals. This team just wasn't good enough. Key injuries all year long. Expecting rookies to carry the team. If we keep anyone around we should be better next year. I'm sick of player turnover. Must keep Spencer!!!!!!

[argotom]

I agree but Ray is not the guy to blame for this loss. As Paul said, there were five or six plays that decided this game and Ray wasn't the problem on any of them.


I never said that.
It's like a baseball line score, the rookie takes the win over a 20 game winner.
Similarly, we should have scored more points and won going away as this game should not have played out the way it did.

[Double Dare]

There is NO WAY anyone is going to tell me that Ray has recovered from his surgery. If he doesn't get back to 100% by the start of next season, Toronto will have to think seriously about letting him go or reducing his salary big time. The Swiss cheese O-line also didn't help his case today.

[paulwoods13]

I just heard Schultzie on the post game show say "we just had a game where a guy named Masoli beat a guy named Ray"?

Oh, OK, now we know it's true.

[gilthethrill]

Bottom line: we cost ourselves a very winnable game. Two missed FGs, the screwup at the goal-line between Bates and Spencer, Owens dropping a catchable pass late, Wright's RTP penalty. There were five or six plays that if any one of them had turned out differently we would have won. Some of it was pure bad luck -- Owusu-Ansah falling down at an inopportune time. All incredibly frustrating, but that's football.

Beyond all that, our o-line can't compete with Hamilton's d-line. That's been evident for two seasons. Holmes had a particularly bad game, but pretty well the whole o-line had continual troubles. The defensive scheme was pretty good, but sloppy tackling in the fourth quarter really cost us.

Oh well, next year will be a lot better in so many ways as far as fan experience goes, and I expect the team to be better on the field as well.

Imagine if Swayze would have been able to recover/return his own punt into the wind in the 1st quarter....I am so emotionally drained I doubt I can watch the West Semi....

[argotom]

Oh, OK, now we know it's true.


I can't help but think if Harris was in and lost you and several others would be all over him and me for supporting such a decision.
Unlike you, I take no pleasure in RR starting and losing.

[Argo57]

Exactly - just brutal & embarassing,

WTF ???

All sorts of let downs and poor plays: Waters has to make at least one of those missed FGs; Owens has to make that catch that might have helped set-up a game sealing TD; dumb penalties (WTF is that do nothing inexperienced DE Wright doing on the field in a critical time of the game to take that penalty ??? And why could Ray not throw the ball downfield more?

Ticats have a very good D, and along with a great FG kicker (55 yarder !!!) and a great returner in Banks, that really helped them win this game; but again - Masoli beating Ray in a QB match-up ? = just pathetic.

One of the most annoying Argo losses this long-time Argo fan has ever witnessed when there was just no excuse to lose this game to a Masoli QB'd team. Love to see Brady punted wayyyyyyyyy out of town - guy has no clue as an OC; and wouldn't be disappointed to see Millanovich & Barker go with him; but oops - already signed these football geniuses to extensions eh?

Watch Ottawa just smoke the Pussycats in the East final; no way their offence is as wimpy & stupid as the Argos version is.

Hope Ottawa is on their game next week!!
Shitty ending to a shitty season, pretty much the same story since the 2012 Grey Cup, DB's not good enough, return game that scares no one, crap O-Line play, stupid penalties and the lack of ability to make a big play when it counts.
Truly good teams know how to play with the lead and bury the other team, Argos were poised to do this today and completely filled their diapers, I'm with you OV, maybe time to rethink our offensive philosophy and try something different.
Another long frustrating offseason ahead.
Interesting they tried some new looks on O with McPherson that actually worked but they abandoned this as the game went on.
Wonder who will be back at QB next season?

[Neely2005]

You give it a rest, that's reality.
Hey I picked our team to win today and I am just as much disappointed as the next guy.

What exactly would you like me to give a rest?

Your agenda against Ray is well beyond tiresome.

[paulwoods13]

Imagine if Swayze would have been able to recover/return his own punt into the wind in the 1st quarter....I am so emotionally drained I doubt I can watch the West Semi....

Right, I forgot about that play and about Rolle's penalty. Add them up and there were about 10 plays that on their own may have cost us a win.


I can't help but think if Harris was in and lost you and several others would be all over him and me for supporting such a decision.
Unlike you, I take no pleasure in RR starting and losing.

Yeah, I definitely take pleasure in losing. Do you take pleasure in saying "toadyaso"? It's all you seem to do any more.

[Argo57]

Right, I forgot about that play and about Rolle's penalty. Add them up and there were about 10 plays that on their own may have cost us a win.

That's what makes today's result so frustrating Paul, we had the perfect storm for a win and still couldn't get the job done.

[MEEZY]

Bottom line headline, a tale of two QB's as a fourth stringer beats a Hall of Fame #1.

I sure hope TO resigns Harris so we don't have to hear your anti-Ray bullcrap ad nauseum

[argotom]

What exactly would you like me to give a rest?

Your agenda against Ray is well beyond tiresome.


Unlike you, I have no agenda I want this team to win with the best possible personnel.
You obviously see no point to evaluate, however most of us here do see the need to review the reasons for the loss and the team going forward.

[MEEZY]

Unlike you, I have no agenda I want this team to win with the best possible personnel.
You obviously see no point to evaluate, however most of us here do see the need to review the reasons for the loss and the team going forward.

I agree 100% with you in wanting wins and being frustrated with losses. It just seems that when they do lose, you go right for Ray and ignore all the other million things that went wrong. I too want the best personnel on the field, but the problem extends way beyond Ray.

[ArgoRavi]

That's what makes today's result so frustrating Paul, we had the perfect storm for a win and still couldn't get the job done.

Totally agree. The Argos needed more than anything today to avoid stupid mistakes and they just couldn't. Spencer - who played a great game - and Bates colliding with each other on what looked like a TD pass and Owens dropping a perfect pass late will sting this entire off-season. Then you had Owusu-Ansah slip in the 3rd quarter and Banks' return in the 4th quarter combined with Rolle's facemasking penalty which gave Masoli instant field position inside the Toronto 30 after the Argos had just given up a safety. Waters couldn't recover his own punt in the first quarter and Wright had the costly roughing the passer penalty in the 4th. I know I am just rehashing much of what has already been written but the Argos should not have lost and they managed to lose it. I felt so good when it was 18-6 late in the third quarter and the Argos had the Ticats pinned at their 22 yard line. I thought that the Argos were about ready to put them away. I really hope Ottawa slaughters Hamilton next week.

[argotom]

I agree 100% with you in wanting wins and being frustrated with losses. It just seems that when they do lose, you go right for Ray and ignore all the other million things that went wrong. I too want the best personnel on the field, but the problem extends way beyond Ray.


Agreed.
Do we also agree the team should have scored more points and won this game going away?
Part of that will fall on Waters for sure.

[R.J]

I can't help but think if Harris was in and lost you and several others would be all over him and me for supporting such a decision.
Unlike you, I take no pleasure in RR starting and losing.
You took no pleasure in Ray starting in the first place, would've made no difference even if he won.

Love to see Brady punted wayyyyyyyyy out of town - guy has no clue as an OC; and wouldn't be disappointed to see Millanovich & Barker go with him; but oops - already signed these football geniuses to extensions eh?
Big thumbs up from me if Brady gets punted. I'd keep Barker, I know you're not a fan of his, but IMO Barker finds talent, it's even more impressive considering he does with what I'd call "interns" as his assistants and on a shoestring budget. I'd keep Milanovich, I think he's a pretty good head coach and add in all the outside circumstances that no other CFL has to face and I think Milo deserves some credit. However, we need to get away from his offense period, I've stated before if Milo isn't willing to bring in a new offense, I'd be happy to see him gone. I don't think I can watch or be willing to continue buying tickets if I have to watch that pathetic offense.

Unlike you, I have no agenda I want this team to win with the best possible personnel.
Wait what ?
If this were true, then you wouldn't have an issue with Ray starting/playing over Harris. Harris is not better than Ray.

The Argos are a good team but not a championship-calibre team at this point. Anyway, a new era for the franchise will start in December and I believe that we will see an improved team with a chance to win the Grey Cup at home next year.
New era starts January 1st 2016, that's when the new owners take over.


As for the game, sloppy by both teams, Hamilton just made less key mistakes. I hope people stop calling Waters the best kicker in the league now, punter maybe, but no way he's the best placekicker. The toss where Bates and Spencer collided was on the receivers not Ray, have no idea how either of them didn't see each other. Ray played okay, but the play calling was atrocious at times. I'm going to regret saying this, because knowing my luck it won't end up happening, but I hope Brady leaves for Winnipeg in the off season, even if Himebauch becomes becomes the new OC, which would probably lead to Preston becoming the O line coach, I'm just really tired of Brady's conservative approach.

One big positive this game was Whitaker, I thought he played a heckeva game and loved it when he scored the TD, he acted "like he's been there before", a true pro. I thought the defense played okay, but when you're facing the #4 qb of a team, I expect better play. Still some issues and holes on D that will hopefully be filled by better personnel in the off season. The Argos have to find a way to win at Tim Hortons Field and hopefully our new home becomes the place of dominance for the Argonauts. I for one am excited for January 1st and beyond.

[larz-7]

i have to admit this had to be the most frustrating loss of the year.

[R.J]

If we had Dikka, we would've won.

[OV Argo]

Oh, OK, now we know it's true.

Yeah, it is true, and bottom line is there is ZERO excuse for this to have happened; and Harris may have fared worse with an idiot for an OC /HC They just needed a FG to tie the game late so why not use a simple play to get the ball a few yards closer to make FG kicks into the wind? Still have to go back to Ray not seeing a wide-open Gurley for an easy TD in the first half ??? - instead he checks down - WTF ??? A stiff of a rookie QB at least saw a wide-open receiver for an easy Ticat deep ball TD.


I hope some are willing to consider big changes are needed on this team; some roster improvements for sure, but IMO the coaching is just horrible & clueless. Barker, Millanovich and Brady will all be welcomed back no doubt with the excuse/hope that a new home stadium will be some big cure for stupid football.

[ArgofanIan]

I am not dumping on this team... we just needed one more call or catch or play to go our way..... and we would have won today..... The east is very good at this time... the next few years we are going to have to be great to get out of the east.... but definitely loosing to Hamilton is a tough way to end the season.... Go ARGOS

[Neely2005]

Unlike you, I have no agenda I want this team to win with the best possible personnel.
You obviously see no point to evaluate, however most of us here do see the need to review the reasons for the loss and the team going forward.

What exactly is my agenda then?

We're all well aware of yours.

[Argo57]

Totally agree. The Argos needed more than anything today to avoid stupid mistakes and they just couldn't. Spencer - who played a great game - and Bates colliding with each other on what looked like a TD pass and Owens dropping a perfect pass late will sting this entire off-season. Then you had Owusu-Ansah slip in the 3rd quarter and Banks' return in the 4th quarter combined with Rolle's facemasking penalty which gave Masoli instant field position inside the Toronto 30 after the Argos had just given up a safety. Waters couldn't recover his own punt in the first quarter and Wright had the costly roughing the passer penalty in the 4th. I know I am just rehashing much of what has already been written but the Argos should not have lost and they managed to lose it. I felt so good when it was 18-6 late in the third quarter and the Argos had the Ticats pinned at their 22 yard line. I thought that the Argos were about ready to put them away. I really hope Ottawa slaughters Hamilton next week.

The Argonauts have proven time after time they have no clue how to put any opponent away when they have the chance.

[Argo]

Haven't read other posts yet. I was at the game and saw the team gloriously snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Of course it won't happen anytime soon, but I'd really like to see the Milanovich era end in Toronto, along with whatever attendant change in the coaching staff that might cause.

[1argoholic]

Milanovich has stressed from day one in Toronto that he was going to have teams play a brand of football without a ton of penalties. Well that hasn't worked in the least. I'm not into firing Barker or Milanovich but we need to take a hard look at coaches and filling some holes on the team. We need some guys to return. You can't play with a crap load of rookies starting and expect to win the cup. Today Ray had two big talented targets missing and Bates really hasn't played much. Most of the guys haven't played with Ricky much so it is what it is. Ray still has game and somehow I'd like to see both him and Harris back. I'd like to see if that rookie qb we signed to the practice roster late in the year can develop. He by all accounts was a great passer and runner in college.

Now the fun and disappointment awaits with the off season. Always cool to see who's back, who's new and obviously losing great talents sucks.


Go Stamps Go!!!!

[timlb01]

I think the Head Coach and GM are fine. No changes required. Bottom line is the same problem occurred today that occurred all season. Bad penalties, bad special teams i.e. kicking and punt/kick return coverage. I don't understand why the defence strategy seemed to change late in the 3rd and 4th quarter. Why the hell did we not bring the house and destroy Masoli and CJ.

All season we never blew any team out. Never took a massive lead and showed we could finish a team off. Massive changes are not necessary imo. Bring in upgrades to special team coaching and offensive coordinator. Personnel wise the secondary and offensive line needs some work. I am against whole sale changes as it destroyes continuity which has occurred every year under the Barker regime.

Shame as this game was for us to win all the way. On a side note I hate the roughing the passer calls. How can that last call be called. I know it has been consistent all season but I hate the call. It is brutal. Rushing as hard as you can and you are shoved and cannot stop your momentum from hitting the QB. It is one crap penalty. I am not complaining that the call was made as it was very consistent all year but I hate the way the rule is written!

Next year will be easier to evaluate the entire organization as there will be none of the crazy outside issues any longer such as no practice facility, not knowing where your next game will be played, cost cutting issues etc. Lets not panic.... the teams core is not bad.

Let's also not forget how many great coordinators have left the team over the past 3 years. These guys are not easy to replace. Imagine if we still had O'Shea, Chris Jones.... maybe kept Jason Maas as our O-coordinator instead of Brady. May have been different as well.

[Argo57]

Yeah, it is true, and bottom line is there is ZERO excuse for this to have happened; and Harris may have fared worse with an idiot for an OC /HC They just needed a FG to tie the game late so why not use a simple play to get the ball a few yards closer to make FG kicks into the wind? Still have to go back to Ray not seeing a wide-open Gurley for an easy TD in the first half ??? - instead he checks down - WTF ??? A stiff of a rookie QB at least saw a wide-open receiver for an easy Ticat deep ball TD.


I hope some are willing to consider big changes are needed on this team; some roster improvements for sure, but IMO the coaching is just horrible & clueless. Barker, Millanovich and Brady will all be welcomed back no doubt with the excuse/hope that a new home stadium will be some big cure for stupid football.

I have been a Milanovich supporter since his arrival but sitting watching the Argonauts play out the same old script today has me leaning towards taking a new direction and approach, quite frankly the current Argonaut landscape has become rather stale and frustrating!
The new venue won't mean much if the on field product and results don't improve next season.

[Will]

For a team that has won the most Grey Cups in history the Argos have quite a history of spectacular playoff failures, and this has got to rank high on that list. I know Masoli (a fourth stringer) didn't really do anything per se to lead the Ticats to victory, but the fact he was allowed to do so is still so typical 2015 Toronto Argonauts. The team gave up close to 150 rushing yards all of this against a team that you know wasn't going to be able to put together much of a passing game and they still allowed it to happen. It's like something just snapped in the Ticat offense after the Argos scored to make it 18-6 in the 3rd quarter, and that was that.

At least the Argos were afforded a win at IWS once in a blue moon.

[Fumblitis]

The Argos big downfall was the points left on the field today. Those two missed field goals were killer.

[R.J]

http://www.argonauts.ca/video/index/id/119877

[ArgoFan1]

Coaching, play calling is what doomed the Argos today. What on Earth was McPherson doing in there for several series??? Is Harris hurt or was the coach trying to put him in his place?? You don't do that when you have such an up and coming star quarterback on your team. Totally Milanovich's responsibility there. Other bad coaching decision was not play Kackert. He got handed the ball ONCE in the entire game. Total absurdity. Either the play calling, or Ricky Ray's lack of ability meant nothing but two yard passes. I am so sick and tired of watching check down throws, as the first option. Very sick and tired of that. No other team throws as many two yard passes as the Argos. They had to go down field a lot more than they did to win this game. What difference did it make that we had some receivers out.... especially when you don't throw to anyone in the first place.

There was one play also where Ricky was scrambling and had to run up the field. I looked out at all the Argo receivers and none of them were even 20 yards up field and worst of all, not one of them was even moving. They were all just standing and watching Ricky. Not one had made a move to get open. I guess after you run 30 routes and the ball gets dumped off for a one yard gain for all of them, you figure there is no urgency to actually run. Who knows?

Comes down to the game being lost because of two missed field goals in the end and one bad penalty..... but it was the total lack of any offensive scheme that did them in.
We should have won this game handily. Now I have to wait 7 months to see the Argos play again. No trip to Ottawa next week for me now.

[ArgoRavi]

For a team that has won the most Grey Cups in history the Argos have quite a history of spectacular playoff failures, and this has got to rank high on that list. I know Masoli (a fourth stringer) didn't really do anything per se to lead the Ticats to victory, but the fact he was allowed to do so is still so typical 2015 Toronto Argonauts. The team gave up close to 150 rushing yards all of this against a team that you know wasn't going to be able to put together much of a passing game and they still allowed it to happen. It's like something just snapped in the Ticat offense after the Argos scored to make it 18-6 in the 3rd quarter, and that was that.

At least the Argos were afforded a win at IWS once in a blue moon.

When you said that the Ticats rushed for 150 yards, I was surprised as I thought that the Argos did a good job of shutting them down until late 3rd quarter. In fact, I really only recall two drives where Hamilton seemed to get any kind of substantial yardage along the ground which was their two TD drives - one of which started at the Toronto 33. Looking at the stats, the Ticats had 148 rushing yards but it took 28 carries to accumulate that. There are a lot of reasons the Argos lost today but I don't necessarily rate rush defence all that high on the list.


Coaching, play calling is what doomed the Argos today. What on Earth was McPherson doing in there for several series??? Is Harris hurt or was the coach trying to put him in his place?? You don't do that when you have such an up and coming star quarterback on your team. Totally Milanovich's responsibility there. Other bad coaching decision was not play Kackert. He got handed the ball ONCE in the entire game. Total absurdity. Either the play calling, or Ricky Ray's lack of ability meant nothing but two yard passes. I am so sick and tired of watching check down throws, as the first option. Very sick and tired of that. No other team throws as many two yard passes as the Argos. They had to go down field a lot more than they did to win this game. What difference did it make that we had some receivers out.... especially when you don't throw to anyone in the first place.

There was one play also where Ricky was scrambling and had to run up the field. I looked out at all the Argo receivers and none of them were even 20 yards up field and worst of all, not one of them was even moving. They were all just standing and watching Ricky. Not one had made a move to get open. I guess after you run 30 routes and the ball gets dumped off for a one yard gain for all of them, you figure there is no urgency to actually run. Who knows?

Comes down to the game being lost because of two missed field goals in the end and one bad penalty..... but it was the total lack of any offensive scheme that did them in.
We should have won this game handily. Now I have to wait 7 months to see the Argos play again. No trip to Ottawa next week for me now.

I actually thought that putting McPherson in with a running package, which the Argos hadn't done all season, was quite a good move and one that worked effectively when they used it. The offence is what it is. It relies on the short passing game but, overall, has been quite productive over the past four years. I agree though that some tweaking may be necessary as the Argos could never quite solve Hamilton's defence this year - although I thought they were okay offensively today - and Montreal's defence has consistently given them trouble too. As for not using Kackert, I don't have a problem with that as Whitaker was quite effective and there wasn't really a place to use Kackert. BTW, I noticed the blocking job that Whitaker did today and it was quite phenomenal. He is still a terrific back.

[AngeloV]

My 2 cents on today....

This game was lost on the poor play of the O-line, plain and simple. Keeping and Holmes in particular had really rough games. There is no way that Keeping should have been pushed back as far as he was on a 3 man rush.
People can also complain about lack of discipline, but when I see things called sometimes and not others, it's really hard to fault players sometimes. The RTP penalty on Wright was absolutely a blown call. He jumped up to try and knock down the pass, and was then pushed while he was in the air to the ground. How an official saw otherwise, tells me he didn't see the play in its entirety and just guessed as to what happened. That can not happen. League really needs to get officials that have a feel for the sport.

Overall, I thought the D played well. They sure did a better job against Masoli than Ottawa did last week. Jones and Greenwood were absolute beasts. It was a shame that Owusu-Ansah fell on Grant's TD, because Grant had to wait for the ball, and I'm sure he would have broken it up, if not picked the underthrown ball.

Anyone that believes QBing cost the Argos the game, simply doesn't get football.
Sure wasn't his fault that Spencer and Bates were in the same spot to take away a TD pass, nor was it his fault that Owens couldn't hang on to the ball on first down before the game tying field goal. Would have kept the drive going for perhaps a winning TD, or at the very least kill the remaining clock before kicking the FG.

Ray was excellent, and should be re-signed as the starter again for next year.

Whitaker was damn good today too, and hopefully people will give it a rest as to why Kackert isn't playing ahead of him.

[argolio]

I can't help but think if Harris was in and lost you and several others would be all over him and me for supporting such a decision.
Unlike you, I take no pleasure in RR starting and losing.If Harris had started and played a similar game, I would have said he played like a warrior, and gave his team a legitimate chance to win the game. And I wouldn't have said RR should have played.


When you said that the Ticats rushed for 150 yards, I was surprised as I thought that the Argos did a good job of shutting them down until late 3rd quarter. In fact, I really only recall two drives where Hamilton seemed to get any kind of substantial yardage along the ground which was their two TD drives - one of which started at the Toronto 33. Looking at the stats, the Ticats had 148 rushing yards but it took 28 carries to accumulate that. There are a lot of reasons the Argos lost today but I don't necessarily rate rush defence all that high on the list.After the Ticats went to a faster tempo, their running game took off. They made an adjustment and we had no answer. One could argue that was the turning point of the game, or a turning point since it's hard to identify a specific one in this game.

[R.J]

The RTP penalty on Wright was absolutely a blown call. He jumped up to try and knock down the pass, and was then pushed while he was in the air to the ground. How an official saw otherwise, tells me he didn't see the play in its entirety and just guessed as to what happened. That can not happen. League really needs to get officials that have a feel for the sport.

Whitaker was damn good today too, and hopefully people will give it a rest as to why Kackert isn't playing ahead of him.
Agreed on both counts.

[Blue90]

My 2 cents on today....

This game was lost on the poor play of the O-line, plain and simple. Keeping and Holmes in particular had really rough games. There is no way that Keeping should have been pushed back as far as he was on a 3 man rush.
People can also complain about lack of discipline, but when I see things called sometimes and not others, it's really hard to fault players sometimes. The RTP penalty on Wright was absolutely a blown call. He jumped up to try and knock down the pass, and was then pushed while he was in the air to the ground. How an official saw otherwise, tells me he didn't see the play in its entirety and just guessed as to what happened. That can not happen. League really needs to get officials that have a feel for the sport.

Overall, I thought the D played well. They sure did a better job against Masoli than Ottawa did last week. Jones and Greenwood were absolute beasts. It was a shame that Owusu-Ansah fell on Grant's TD, because Grant had to wait for the ball, and I'm sure he would have broken it up, if not picked the underthrown ball.

Anyone that believes QBing cost the Argos the game, simply doesn't get football.
Sure wasn't his fault that Spencer and Bates were in the same spot to take away a TD pass, nor was it his fault that Owens couldn't hang on to the ball on first down before the game tying field goal. Would have kept the drive going for perhaps a winning TD, or at the very least kill the remaining clock before kicking the FG.

Ray was excellent, and should be re-signed as the starter again for next year.

Whitaker was damn good today too, and hopefully people will give it a rest as to why Kackert isn't playing ahead of him.
Angelo....did you see the game?
The D played well? What? They allowed an unknown first time starting QB to score at will on them without even having a passing game. They made Masoli look like an experienced CFL QB.
No lack of discipline....How about the facemask call or the roughing the passer calls.....These are pure lack of discipline. Not blaming officials.
HOF Ricky Ray was not excellent, he was poor...missing open receivers, interception, most of the only long gains he made were assisted by pass interference calls. He just cannot throw the long accurate ball anymore. I hope that Harris is our number 1 next year.
Our field goal kicking was poor especially in comparison to Medlock's kicking. Kick and punt return coverage was poor again.
You have vastly over-rated both this team and the coaching staff all year. Time to take an honest realistic look at this team. They are just not a very good team.

[R.J]

Maybe I was watching a different game, but when was Hamilton and/or Masoli "scoring at will" ?
Also how about we wait until next year, you know when Ray is actually healthy (Milanovich and Ray have both admitted at best Ray's health was comparable to last season and we all know Ray was playing injured), before we say Ray can't throw the deep ball anymore, and lastly I'd like to know, when did Harris become better than Ray ?

[Double Dare]

I have been a Milanovich supporter since his arrival but sitting watching the Argonauts play out the same old script today has me leaning towards taking a new direction and approach, quite frankly the current Argonaut landscape has become rather stale and frustrating!
The new venue won't mean much if the on field product and results don't improve next season. X2. Say no more ...

[Antwon]

My 2 cents on today....

This game was lost on the poor play of the O-line, plain and simple. Keeping and Holmes in particular had really rough games. There is no way that Keeping should have been pushed back as far as he was on a 3 man rush.
People can also complain about lack of discipline, but when I see things called sometimes and not others, it's really hard to fault players sometimes. The RTP penalty on Wright was absolutely a blown call. He jumped up to try and knock down the pass, and was then pushed while he was in the air to the ground. How an official saw otherwise, tells me he didn't see the play in its entirety and just guessed as to what happened. That can not happen. League really needs to get officials that have a feel for the sport.

Overall, I thought the D played well. They sure did a better job against Masoli than Ottawa did last week. Jones and Greenwood were absolute beasts. It was a shame that Owusu-Ansah fell on Grant's TD, because Grant had to wait for the ball, and I'm sure he would have broken it up, if not picked the underthrown ball.

Anyone that believes QBing cost the Argos the game, simply doesn't get football.
Sure wasn't his fault that Spencer and Bates were in the same spot to take away a TD pass, nor was it his fault that Owens couldn't hang on to the ball on first down before the game tying field goal. Would have kept the drive going for perhaps a winning TD, or at the very least kill the remaining clock before kicking the FG.

Ray was excellent, and should be re-signed as the starter again for next year.

Whitaker was damn good today too, and hopefully people will give it a rest as to why Kackert isn't playing ahead of him.

"Ray was excellent, and should be re-signed as the starter again for next year."

That's overrating Ray a tad. On one replay they showed Ray going through his reads and he did not throw on the second option to a deeper open receiver and chose the third shorter throw. He just doesn't have the arm strength right now!!!

Harris needs to be resigned and given the opportunity to be the starter. Ray can be resigned with a structured contract that gives his the same opportunity to start. BUT this is based on admitting his arm is not 100% right now, and will be next year. If it's not he can't start.

[argotom]

The game was lost at different levels, but for Angelo to say here "Ray was excellent" and presumably had no effect in the loss that's absurd.
Many posters have rightfully come out and challenged this.
Let's look at a couple examples, a time count violation in the first half, missing a wide open Gurley near the end zone, looking very slow in the pocket, numerous check down passes, a pick on an under thrown ball etc.
You got to be kidding?

[1argoholic]

Ray to me was up and down and that's in part to the friggin boring white bread play calling. When they allowed him to toss the ball deep great things happened until Owens big drop and the Bates and Spencer gongshow.

As I've mentioned before I'm a landscaper with shoulder issues in both. Never have had them looked at but for at least 12 years if I throw or reach up to do anything over my head they start to ache. I can't imagine being a top flight qb with shoulder issues. Ray will have a good off season to get in great shape and he'll be healthy and strong coming into next year. Hell he's well rested. We should be getting another Great rookie O lineman who was the best in the CIS West this year in McEwan from Calgary. If we keep our receiving core together that should help. Of course we need to trust Barker to do what he feels is best for the team.

[AngeloV]

I guess none of you really noticed how bad the o-line played. I challenge you all to look at the other 4 games the Argos played in THF this year (all started by Harris), and show me any game in which Harris played better than Ray did yesterday.


The game was lost at different levels, but for Angelo to say here "Ray was excellent" and presumably had no effect in the loss that's absurd.
Many posters have rightfully come out and challenged this.

If you say so. For people to be all over 1 bad read kills me. He had the team in position to win. As I said, he had a deep ball dropped as 2 Argo receivers fought for the same ball. He hit Owens on the last drive with about 1 minute left which would have given them a first down on the 20, but the ball was dropped. His O-line was terrible, just as it was for Harris the last 3 games where he really struggled. The difference being that Ray made quicker decisions for the most part to limit negative plays. Harris was a sack and INT machine his last 3 starts. I don't know what part of that you and the people you say agree with you don't understand.

Anyone that doesn't understand O-line play is the key to any offence, just doesn't understand football.


Maybe I was watching a different game, but when was Hamilton and/or Masoli "scoring at will" ?
Also how about we wait until next year, you know when Ray is actually healthy (Milanovich and Ray have both admitted at best Ray's health was comparable to last season and we all know Ray was playing injured), before we say Ray can't throw the deep ball anymore, and lastly I'd like to know, when did Harris become better than Ray ?

No, you were watching the same game. We may disagree on our assessment of Milanovich as a coach, but we both see the same thing during the actual game. Some just have to find someone to blame, so in this case it is Ray. Of course if he isn't back next year and leads another team to a good season, these same people will be asking rather angrily why they let him go. You know, the same people that also claimed Burris was done.

[1argoholic]

Oh to be a qb. Ray is done, Payton Manning and Aron Rogers are done. Just like Burris has been counted out too many times to mention. Remember when Brady was washed up. The same people thought Bishop was the best thing since sliced bread. There I did it and brought up Bishop.

[mchesher03]

many things to discuss and all off season to discuss them (personnel, coaching, etc.) but am I out to lunch in thinking the RTP call on Wright was complete and utter nonsense? For Proulx to throw a flag on that and have a direct impact on the last minute of a playoff game is utterly shameful to me. Whatever his rationale and he's totally incorrect IMO, he should not be working another playoff game this year.

Someone who knows more than me can humour me here, is it common practice for teams to compile "highlights" of where they feel officials erred and send them to the league office for review? If so, I'd happily volunteer in that capacity for a future season! (somewhat joking)

[1argoholic]

I agree totally in that BS call. Soon it'll be touch football and the football will be Nerf.

[Scooter McCray]

many things to discuss and all off season to discuss them (personnel, coaching, etc.) but am I out to lunch in thinking the RTP call on Wright was complete and utter nonsense? For Proulx to throw a flag on that and have a direct impact on the last minute of a playoff game is utterly shameful to me. Whatever his rationale and he's totally incorrect IMO, he should not be working another playoff game this year.

Someone who knows more than me can humour me here, is it common practice for teams to compile "highlights" of where they feel officials erred and send them to the league office for review? If so, I'd happily volunteer in that capacity for a future season! (somewhat joking)

I agree with you 100%. Wright did not follow through on a rush, he was pushed to the ground where his body rolled into the QB. That was not the time or place to throw a flag and such a "grey" at best situation. Certainly not a black and white call. That said the official should keep the flag in his pocket and not become part of the game unless a clear black and white call is in front of his face. Unbelievable. The league has a lot of work to do in the offseason with officiating. The Argos had many blown opportunities to win this game, but the officials did them no favors and should face the same criticism the Argo organization is going to face this offseason.

[ArgoRavi]

I agree with you 100%. Wright did not follow through on a rush, he was pushed to the ground where his body rolled into the QB. That was not the time or place to throw a flag and such a "grey" at best situation. Certainly not a black and white call. That said the official should keep the flag in his pocket and not become part of the game unless a clear black and white call is in front of his face. Unbelievable. The league has a lot of work to do in the offseason with officiating. The Argos had many blown opportunities to win this game, but the officials did them no favors and should face the same criticism the Argo organization is going to face this offseason.

At best that was a weak call; at worst it was a bad call. The more I look at that play, the more I think that it was a bad call and I happen to think that Andre Proulx is the best head ref in the CFL. I really thought that Tom Higgins had the officiating moving in the right direction when he was running the show but it does seem that the officiating has taken a step or two back under Glen Johnson. We have seen too many critical calls this year that even the league has admitted were incorrect. There is no question that officiating is an issue that the league needs to revisit in the off-season.

Getting back to that call on Wright, we don't know if that cost the Argos the game or not. Masoli completed a pass up to the 50 or 51 of Hamilton on that play so the Ticats were one first down away from giving Medlock a legitimate chance at the game-winning FG with 31 seconds left to play. I would have liked to see the Argo defence have that one last chance to stop the Ticats but the penalty took that out of their hands.

[Argo]

Oh to be a qb. Ray is done, Payton Manning and Aron Rogers are done. Just like Burris has been counted out too many times to mention. Remember when Brady was washed up. The same people thought Bishop was the best thing since sliced bread. There I did it and brought up Bishop.

Bishop was the best thing since sliced bread: just not for very long.


I guess none of you really noticed how bad the o-line played. I challenge you all to look at the other 4 games the Argos played in THF this year (all started by Harris), and show me any game in which Harris played better than Ray did yesterday.

If you say so. For people to be all over 1 bad read kills me. He had the team in position to win. As I said, he had a deep ball dropped as 2 Argo receivers fought for the same ball. He hit Owens on the last drive with about 1 minute left which would have given them a first down on the 20, but the ball was dropped. His O-line was terrible, just as it was for Harris the last 3 games where he really struggled. The difference being that Ray made quicker decisions for the most part to limit negative plays. Harris was a sack and INT machine his last 3 starts. I don't know what part of that you and the people you say agree with you don't understand.

Anyone that doesn't understand O-line play is the key to any offence, just doesn't understand football.

No, you were watching the same game. We may disagree on our assessment of Milanovich as a coach, but we both see the same thing during the actual game. Some just have to find someone to blame, so in this case it is Ray. Of course if he isn't back next year and leads another team to a good season, these same people will be asking rather angrily why they let him go. You know, the same people that also claimed Burris was done.

The O line is the bedrock of a football team, and the Argos' was indeed, yet again, a problem.
Without rehashing my concerns, I'd like to see Ray and Harris both return in genuine open competition from the get-go, if their intentions and economics permit. If not, c'est la vie, move on.
As for Milanovich et al... all or almost all will return. So let's see if the same philosophy and coaching leads to a different result in a banner year - 2016 - where there really should not be any excuses whatsoever.

[gilthethrill]

Barker has a busy offseason to say the least. 1st priority is the O-line. If you are a pass first offence, it doesn't matter who is behind center if he is not going to have time to make his reads consistently. If both Ray and Harris can't be resigned( I hope some how they are), I would have not issue with McPherson as #2 and either Kilgore or Farjardo #3. Yesterday's loss never should have come down to that penalty on Wright. I expect Barker to have an equal opportunity to resign our key FA and be active on the market. 10 win season? Pretty darn good, but I am still really irked we lost in what I will always refer to as "The Masoli Game".

[R.J]

You know, the same people that also claimed Burris was done.
I'm guilty of this one lol.

[Rich]

Ray was excellent, and should be re-signed as the starter again for next year.



To use your own words, this is a moronic opinion. Ray showed his age, and it will only get worse. He is getting slower, and we need a QB who can use his feet to avoid the pass rush. On that count, Ray makes Harris look like Donovan Bailey.

[R.J]

To use your own words, this is a moronic opinion. Ray showed his age, and it will only get worse. He is getting slower, and we need a QB who can use his feet to avoid the pass rush. On that count, Ray makes Harris look like Donovan Bailey.

I feel this same about the opinions that Harris should be handed the starters job over Ray.
No one seems to want to answer this, but when did Harris become better than Ray ?

[Antwon]

I guess none of you really noticed how bad the o-line played. I challenge you all to look at the other 4 games the Argos played in THF this year (all started by Harris), and show me any game in which Harris played better than Ray did yesterday.

If you say so. For people to be all over 1 bad read kills me. He had the team in position to win. As I said, he had a deep ball dropped as 2 Argo receivers fought for the same ball. He hit Owens on the last drive with about 1 minute left which would have given them a first down on the 20, but the ball was dropped. His O-line was terrible, just as it was for Harris the last 3 games where he really struggled. The difference being that Ray made quicker decisions for the most part to limit negative plays. Harris was a sack and INT machine his last 3 starts. I don't know what part of that you and the people you say agree with you don't understand.

Anyone that doesn't understand O-line play is the key to any offence, just doesn't understand football.

Yes the O-line had a bad year, but if you want to compare both QB's in those 4 games you have to factor in experience. Harris was in his first year as a starter!! Ray with all his experience still couldn't muster up a win.
I think the system they use leaves both QB's holding the ball too long waiting for it to develop, or takes too long to do all the check downs! So Millanovich needs to add to the playbook. Like a whole package with quick release passes.

Consider 3 of the 4 teams going for the Grey Cup bit the bullet at one time and went with the young gun QB. Mitchell, Reilly, Collaros(counting him because of last year and the tear he was on before he got hurt). I'd like both back but if we only get one, I'd go with Harris.

[Fumblitis]

I feel this same about the opinions that Harris should be handed the starters job over Ray.
No one seems to want to answer this, but when did Harris become better than Ray ?As a guest on this forum, I have to say I'd likely choose Harris over Ray. With Trevor you have youth and mobility. Harris led the Argos to improbable wins early in the season and he didn't just become a bad QB overnight. As Angelo pointed out, the Argos Oline was outdone yesterday as has been the case in the latter part of the season. Is Harris worth $450000 per year? I'd say no but he has earned himself a raise. Ray is 37. Will his shoulder ever fully recover...who knows but remember this opinion is based on my preference for a younger team as a whole.

[Antwon]

I feel this same about the opinions that Harris should be handed the starters job over Ray.
No one seems to want to answer this, but when did Harris become better than Ray ?

In the last 3 games when did Ray show he was better than Harris??

[R.J]

In the last 3 games when did Ray show he was better than Harris??

So instead of answering the question, probably because you can't, your only course of action is to ask me the reversal question ? Bravo.
I'll bite, Ray didn't play overly well at any time when he was playing, but Harris clearly hit a wall. Harris is not better than Ray, how anyone can honestly think that is beyond me and considering no one actually has said it says a lot IMO. Ray isn't 100% healthy, so again why not wait for when he is, before people say he's done. Harris played relatively well, as I've said before, he's a capable above average starter, but he's close to or has hit his sealing. Having been spoiled with Ray and Collaros, I expect Toronto's starter to be as good if not better than those two, of which Harris isn't and I doubt ever will be. The only things Harris is "better" than Ray at is he's 7 years younger, Ray just turned 36 last month, not sure why people keep saying he's 37 and Harris is more mobile, but people act like Ray was super mobile before this season. People act like Harris is a scrambler or something, like Collaros is, but the fact is Harris is a pocket QB just like Ray.

[AngeloV]

Bishop was the best thing since sliced bread: just not for very long.



The O line is the bedrock of a football team, and the Argos' was indeed, yet again, a problem.
Without rehashing my concerns, I'd like to see Ray and Harris both return in genuine open competition from the get-go, if their intentions and economics permit. If not, c'est la vie, move on.
As for Milanovich et al... all or almost all will return. So let's see if the same philosophy and coaching leads to a different result in a banner year - 2016 - where there really should not be any excuses whatsoever.

Very fair comments.


To use your own words, this is a moronic opinion. Ray showed his age, and it will only get worse. He is getting slower, and we need a QB who can use his feet to avoid the pass rush. On that count, Ray makes Harris look like Donovan Bailey.

Man are you good a cherry picking. You go away for weeks at a time, then conveniently come back to stress a point when it's convenient for you. You were no where to be seen around here when Harris was an MOP candidate, then when he hits the wall, you come back with an "I told you so".


In the last 3 games when did Ray show he was better than Harris??

Look at Harris' 2 starts in Hamilton (he actually really struggled in all 4 including Calgary and Montreal) and compare them to Ray yesterday. Not even close when comparing equal opponents. Ray was better.

[Antwon]

So instead of answering the question, probably because you can't, your only course of action is to ask me the reversal question ? Bravo.
I'll bite, Ray didn't play overly well at any time when he was playing, but Harris clearly hit a wall. Harris is not better than Ray, how anyone can honestly think that is beyond me and considering no one actually has said it says a lot IMO. Ray isn't 100% healthy, so again why not wait for when he is, before people say he's done. Harris played relatively well, as I've said before, he's a capable above average starter, but he's close to or has hit his sealing. Having been spoiled with Ray and Collaros, I expect Toronto's starter to be as good if not better than those two, of which Harris isn't and I doubt ever will be. The only things Harris is "better" than Ray at is he's 7 years younger, Ray just turned 36 last month, not sure why people keep saying he's 37 and Harris is more mobile, but people act like Ray was super mobile before this season. People act like Harris is a scrambler or something, like Collaros is, but the fact is Harris is a pocket QB just like Ray.

Good points. But if Ray is not 100% how do you know he will be next year? And how do you know for sure Harris has hit his peak? Bring them both back and see what happens!

[paulwoods13]

In the last 3 games when did Ray show he was better than Harris??

He was better than Harris was in Harris's last three games. Harris had 13 mostly outstanding games but his last three starts were not good enough. Ray's start yesterday was good enough to win if any one of five or six teammates hadn't done something incredibly stupid or incredibly unlucky. I'd like both guys back, and I'd like Harris to win the starting job. But based on evidence over the last six weeks, Ricky is better right now.

[argotom]

He was better than Harris was in Harris's last three games. Harris had 13 mostly outstanding games but his last three starts were not good enough. Ray's start yesterday was good enough to win if any one of five or six teammates hadn't done something incredibly stupid or incredibly unlucky. I'd like both guys back, and I'd like Harris to win the starting job. But based on evidence over the last six weeks, Ricky is better right now.

This is all a matter of opinion.
Upon reviewing, the majority here I would say do not agree with your opinion.
We all know sometimes stats do not tell the entire story.
Sure you mention and correct how 5 or 6 teammates were complicit, but you can also throw in Ray as in addition for some of the "stupid things" he did as have been mentioned throughout.
I have read today in the various print with a good number saying how Harris should be the QB for next year and how likely he should have started yesterday.

[paulwoods13]

This is all a matter of opinion.
Upon reviewing, the majority here I would say do not agree with your opinion.
We all know sometimes stats do not tell the entire story.
Sure you mention and correct how 5 or 6 teammates were complicit, but you can also throw in Ray as in addition for some of the "stupid things" he did as have been mentioned throughout.
I have read today in the various print with a good number saying how Harris should be the QB for next year and how likely he should have started yesterday.

Yes, it is all a matter of opinion, as is the contention that the "majority" of posters here feel one way or another. I see a debate that has strong proponents on both sides, and no predominant view.

Ricky made one demonstrable mistake yesterday when he failed to throw to a wide-open Gurley. Other than that, I didn't see any mistakes comparable to Foley's RTP penalty, Rolle's penalty, Waters missing two FGs and failing to grab the bouncing punt, Owens dropping a pass that could have led to a game-winning TD, and Bates getting in the way of primary receivers twice at the goal line (once Owens managed to catch the pass anyway). I chalk up Owusu-Ansah and Wright to bad luck, not stupidity.

If there are a "good number" of print reporters saying Harris should be the QB next year, I'd love to see links supporting this. I saw some wondering who it will be given the FA situation, but no one suggesting it has to be Harris. Not even Zicarelli.

[timlb01]

He was better than Harris was in Harris's last three games. Harris had 13 mostly outstanding games but his last three starts were not good enough. Ray's start yesterday was good enough to win if any one of five or six teammates hadn't done something incredibly stupid or incredibly unlucky. I'd like both guys back, and I'd like Harris to win the starting job. But based on evidence over the last six weeks, Ricky is better right now.

I tend to agree with your comments. In order to win now it was the right thing to go with Ray. Was Ray perfect, far from it but better or safer than Harris. I hope they are both back next year or we sign Doug Flutie again :)

[OV Argo]

I'd like to see both Harris and Ray back at QB for the Argos next season; hopefully the team wants both of them back and they are glad to be there and willing to compete with AND help each other out - you know, for the TEAM.

I love Ricky Ray as a QB: one of the all-time CFL greats IMO, especially in terms of poise, vision and accuracy; also under-rated in terms of some decent mobility for a bigger tall QB - could move & buy time in the pocket and was (once) smart & athletic enough to run for 1st downs when the opening was there.

However - have to wonder if he has faded just a bit or enough in terms of QB skills so that he is just not the great CFL QB he once was? Still real pissed-off about yesterday's loss and I'm not blaming Ray; yet i recall a similar feeling after the 2013 play-off loss - Ray just missed opportunities to step-up and be a great big play / play-off QB and lead/will his team to a win - made some poor throws when it mattered late in the game; and yesterday - missed seeing a wide-open Gurley for an easy TD in the first half, and also could not pull the trigger on more intermediate to deep throws throughout the game; certainly not his fault that Owens dropped a pass he should have caught, or that 2 young receivers made a big mistake in running into each other, but - maybe his arm is not healed enough (and may never be back to 100%) or maybe his receivers could not get open enough, and the play-calls were not smart; not sure he can run anymore and maybe he likes that lame-o CFL checkdown shite but sorry - I just expect more out of a QB who has been so outstanding in the past - maybe he could have just called his own plays in key drive situations and told a clown like Brady to shut-up?

Like I said - hope Ray is back as an Argo and he could still have a great season, but I'm not sure anymore. I like Harris too - good young QB who should continue to learn & improve and maybe become a top notch starter - he sure looked like it at times this season.

[Ballstothewall]

Ray never had a strong arm, but he is accurate and know how to lob the ball over the defender and into the Recivers hands. However if Rays shoulder is the best it is going to be, then there us no question. Ray is done. His mechanics and throwing motion looked terrible. He had no zip on the ball, with Recivers having to stop, slow down or come back for the ball ( yes I know some plays are designed for that) but if anyone thinks you can be a pro QB with throwing the ball like he did Sunday, your nuts. Now perhaps the offseason will provide him some good rehab and he can come back, only time will tell. I think Ray would make a great QB coach if he can't play anymore

[Wobbler]

I didn't see that at all. Ray may have misjudged the strength on a couple of throws, but I think that could be attributed to rust. I'll have to watch a game from last year to be sure, but his mechanics certainly didn't seem terrible.