Milanovich coaching tree branching out fast

[Will]

http://www.cfl.ca/2015/12/21/milanovich-coaching-tree-branching-fast/

Jason Maas, Mike O'Shea and Chris Jones are now all head coaches in the Canadian Football League. Jones has established himself as a solid coach in Edmonton, but time will tell whether the situation in Saskatchewan works itself out. The jury is still out on O'Shea and Maas, but I'd like to see what the Blue Bombers could do if Drew Willy remained healthy for the entire season. The article also mentions Orlondo Steinauer and Stephen McAdoo who are both coordinators, but I suppose the article supposes that they could get HC jobs in the future (with Steinauer that is likely as early as 2017).

Are we to be pleased with the fact that this coaching tree has grown? Yes, I suppose it could be a point of pride. However, it is also a bitter pill to swallow as two of those names Jones and Maas met in the Grey Cup (albeit Maas was just an OC) while the Argos replacements haven't quite been as successful. Hopefully, with new committed ownership the Argos won't have to cheap out on assistant coaches.

[1argoholic]

Why we'll never see another run like the five straight Grey Cup championships the Eskimo's had in the late 70's and early 80's. Way too much turnover in players and coaches from year to year across all sports not just the CFL. Really sickening when you don't want to buy your favorite players jersey because he may only be with your team for a year or two. It's been a real issue with the Argos players and coaches since Milanovich and Barker have been around.

[R.J]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't think it's fair to include Jones, O'shea or Steinauer in that list. Steinauer and O'Shea were brought in by Barker not Milanovich, they were just some of the holdover coaches. Jones was a DC previously and also did some player personnel work, so again didn't get his start with Milanovich. Sometimes I think Milanovich gets way too much credit in the CFL.

[Argo57]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't think it's fair to include Jones, O'shea or Steinauer in that list. Steinauer and O'Shea were brought in by Barker not Milanovich, they were just some of the holdover coaches. Jones was a DC previously and also did some player personnel work, so again didn't get his start with Milanovich. Sometimes I think Milanovich gets way too much credit in the CFL.

True, with the constant coaching shuffle and crossover you could build a similar case for a few coaches in the league (Hufnagel, Buono and even Popp).

[paulwoods13]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't think it's fair to include Jones, O'shea or Steinauer in that list. Steinauer and O'Shea were brought in by Barker not Milanovich, they were just some of the holdover coaches. Jones was a DC previously and also did some player personnel work, so again didn't get his start with Milanovich. Sometimes I think Milanovich gets way too much credit in the CFL.

Just as he sometimes (often?) gets way too much criticism in this forum. But I agree with your premise that those three coaches are not necessarily SM works of art.

[Double Dare]

sometimes i think milanovich gets way too much credit in the cfl.
bingo!

[Neely2005]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't think it's fair to include Jones, O'shea or Steinauer in that list. Steinauer and O'Shea were brought in by Barker not Milanovich, they were just some of the holdover coaches. Jones was a DC previously and also did some player personnel work, so again didn't get his start with Milanovich. Sometimes I think Milanovich gets way too much credit in the CFL.

With the ownership, lack of practice facilities and schedule issues that he has had to put up with I don't think that he gets enough credit.

[ArgoRavi]

With the ownership, lack of practice facilities and schedule issues that he has had to put up with I don't think that he gets enough credit.

Totally agree! How this team hasn't fallen apart completely the last two years is testament to the excellent job Milanovich has done.

[R.J]

With the ownership, lack of practice facilities and schedule issues that he has had to put up with I don't think that he gets enough credit.

In 2016 those excuses should be long gone, should we expect a 14-16 win season ?

[AngeloV]

In 2016 those excuses should be long gone, should we expect a 14-16 win season ?

You know how I feel. I like Milanovich a lot, and so do his players. Number of wins aren't necessarily a reflection of the coach. IMO, he did a great job considering he was without this #1 QB all year, and basically without his DC of choice.

[R.J]

You know how I feel. I like Milanovich a lot, and so do his players. Number of wins aren't necessarily a reflection of the coach. IMO, he did a great job considering he was without this #1 QB all year, and basically without his DC of choice.I have given credit to Milanovich for coaching this team under worse circumstances than any other CFL team has had to face. From the lack of practice facility two season ago, the ridiculous amount of 4-5 game road trips in season past and the displaced home games from this past season. In saying that, this team has gone 9-9, 11-7, 8-10 and 10-8 for an overall regular season record of 38-34 a marginally better than mediocre record IMO. His so called "high powered offence" has never lead the league in scoring, highest ranking was 3rd in 2013 and 2014. Also should add, the Argonauts under Milanovich are usually one of the most penalized teams in the CFL.

IMO next season we'll get to see what Milanovich is really made of, because there's literally no more excuses. There's a new ownership group with some serious money and a business management team in Copeland & Moore that clearly have a plan for this franchise, so one would think the football operations will see a higher budget to play with. A permanent home and practice facility, so scheduling should be much easier for the Argonauts. Now I don't want to make any predictions, since it's way too early in the off season and a lot of movement is still to come, but some people make it seem like Milanovich is the best Head Coach in the CFL, I want to see him prove it. Huf and Jones have never lost more than 7 games in a season (Huf in 2009) as Head Coaches.

[AngeloV]

I have given credit to Milanovich for coaching this team under worse circumstances than any other CFL team has had to face. From the lack of practice facility two season ago, the ridiculous amount of 4-5 game road trips in season past and the displaced home games from this past season. In saying that, this team has gone 9-9, 11-7, 8-10 and 10-8 for an overall regular season record of 38-34 a marginally better than mediocre record IMO. His so called "high powered offence" has never lead the league in scoring, highest ranking was 3rd in 2013 and 2014. Also should add, the Argonauts under Milanovich are usually one of the most penalized teams in the CFL.

IMO next season we'll get to see what Milanovich is really made of, because there's literally no more excuses. There's a new ownership group with some serious money and a business management team in Copeland & Moore that clearly have a plan for this franchise, so one would think the football operations will see a higher budget to play with. A permanent home and practice facility, so scheduling should be much easier for the Argonauts. Now I don't want to make any predictions, since it's way too early in the off season and a lot of movement is still to come, but some people make it seem like Milanovich is the best Head Coach in the CFL, I want to see him prove it. Huf and Jones have never lost more than 7 games in a season (Huf in 2009) as Head Coaches.

I never compared him to Huff. Obviously, his success is something for any coach to shoot for. Jones has his work cut out for him this season as Milanovich did in '12.

[R.J]

I never compared him to Huff. Obviously, his success is something for any coach to shoot for. Jones has his work cut out for him this season as Milanovich did in '12.
My comment was made more in general and to some posters here who seem to think that Milanovich is the best coach in the CFL or even one of the top 3.

[AngeloV]

My comment was made more in general and to some posters here who seem to think that Milanovich is the best coach in the CFL or even one of the top 3.

Got it. I'll just add that winning the Grey Cup in your first year as a head coach makes for some added expectations that are not exactly easy to live up to. Especially considering the circumstances his team has had to live with.

[paulwoods13]

My comment was made more in general and to some posters here who seem to think that Milanovich is the best coach in the CFL or even one of the top 3.

I'm one of them, and proudly so. I don't think hufnagel or any other coach could have squeezed more out of what we had to deal with the past three seasons. And let's all remember what came before him. Other than pinball, who was not a traditional head coach in any sense (and who won fewer grey cups than he should have given what he had to work with), we have not had a decent head coach since Matthews left in 1998. Milanovich has put contending teams on the field each season despite massive handicaps. It's easy to say we could do better. It's not as easy to actually do better.

[R.J]

Got it. I'll just add that winning the Grey Cup in your first year as a head coach makes for some added expectations that are not exactly easy to live up to. Especially considering the circumstances his team has had to live with.
I agree to an extent. Considering the circumstances that Milanovich has had to deal with, he's done well, but good and great or elite are two different things IMO. Not even going to bother bringing up how I feel about his system, but I have stated multiple times that I think Milanovich is a good Head Coach. I can't think of many in game decisions he's made, where I'm left scratching my head, and considering everything he's had to deal with the Argonauts are at least competitive for the most part. In saying that, I expect better, I think we've had the talent to be perennial Grey Cup contenders, and IMO being marginally above mediocre isn't good enough for me.

I'm one of them, and proudly so. I don't think hufnagel or any other coach could have squeezed more out of what we had to deal with the past three seasons. And let's all remember what came before him. Other than pinball, who was not a traditional head coach in any sense (and who won fewer grey cups than he should have given what he had to work with), we have not had a decent head coach since Matthews left in 1998. Milanovich has put contending teams on the field each season despite massive handicaps. It's easy to say we could do better. It's not as easy to actually do better.
Going to have to disagree with you. Hufnagel is in a class of his own IMO.
Are you saying that Milanovich has put together playoff or Grey Cup contending teams together ?

[paulwoods13]

Going to have to disagree with you. Hufnagel is in a class of his own IMO.
Are you saying that Milanovich has put together playoff or Grey Cup contending teams together ?

He hasn't been asked or expected to do that, so it's not relevant IMO. He's only a coach, and that's what I'm rating him on: how -- as a head coach -- he handled the challenges thrown his way that no other head coach in the league had to contend with. Happy to discuss Hufnagel vs. Barker as team builders, or Hufnagel vs. Austin vs. Buono as coach/GMs, but that's not the subject of this particular discussion.

[R.J]

He hasn't been asked or expected to do that, so it's not relevant IMO. He's only a coach, and that's what I'm rating him on: how -- as a head coach -- he handled the challenges thrown his way that no other head coach in the league had to contend with. Happy to discuss Hufnagel vs. Barker as team builders, or Hufnagel vs. Austin vs. Buono as coach/GMs, but that's not the subject of this particular discussion.
Okay, so if I'm following the logic correctly, Milanovich is better than Huf, because he's had to deal with all the BS the last couple of seasons. So by your logic, starting next season due to all the excuses disappearing Milanovich should win as many if not more games than Huf has won. I'll be waiting to see if this occurs, if Milanovich loses more than 7 games in the next 3 seasons, he should be canned.

[paulwoods13]

Okay, so if I'm following the logic correctly, Milanovich is better than Huf, because he's had to deal with all the BS the last couple of seasons. So by your logic, starting next season due to all the excuses disappearing Milanovich should win as many if not more games than Huf has won. I'll be waiting to see if this occurs, if Milanovich loses more than 7 games in the next 3 seasons, he should be canned.

That's specious "logic." How a coach performs has to do with many factors, including the personnel he is given, injuries and countless others. I don't believe there is anyone anywhere in Canada who would say Calgary did not have better personnel than Toronto overall, which is a credit to Hufnagel as a GM and also due in part to the fact that our org had little money to work with, nowhere to practise for three of the past four years, minimal organizational infrastructure etc. (Some of our top recruits, like SV Rogers, left for other teams and those factors had to be part of it.) It's not nearly as simple as "if he's better than Hufnagel he must therefore win more games than Hufnagel." And it's utterly ridiculous to suggest that if the Argos win "only" 14 games a season the next three years, the coach should be fired. I'm sure you know that but it seems as if your dislike of Milanovich sometimes gets in the way of common sense.

[doubleblue]

So I guess we can add Jamie Elizondo to list of former Milanovich's disciples with his hiring In Ottawa as their OC. Never quite thought of him as on the same level as Jones, Maas and O'Shea as a Assistant Coach.
Any Ideas as who his replacement might be?

[R.J]

Elizondo was originally brought into the League by Trestman, then let go, went back to the States, then brought in by Barker in 2010. Not sure how that means he's a part of the Milanovich coaching tree, but okay.


That's specious "logic." How a coach performs has to do with many factors, including the personnel he is given, injuries and countless others. I don't believe there is anyone anywhere in Canada who would say Calgary did not have better personnel than Toronto overall, which is a credit to Hufnagel as a GM and also due in part to the fact that our org had little money to work with, nowhere to practise for three of the past four years, minimal organizational infrastructure etc. (Some of our top recruits, like SV Rogers, left for other teams and those factors had to be part of it.) It's not nearly as simple as "if he's better than Hufnagel he must therefore win more games than Hufnagel." And it's utterly ridiculous to suggest that if the Argos win "only" 14 games a season the next three years, the coach should be fired. I'm sure you know that but it seems as if your dislike of Milanovich sometimes gets in the way of common sense.
Not at all, just following your logic, not my own. According to you Milanovich is the best Head Coach in the League, because he's had to deal with more than any other Head Coach. So why is his winning percentage lower than Jones' or Huf's ? The Argonauts had nowhere to practice in 2014 (for 3 months). 2012, 2013 and 2015 they either practiced at UofT Mississuaga or Downsview, so that 1 out of 4 not 3/4.

While finding talent is obviously a big part of whether or not a team is successful, coaching talent also plays into it, Huf has a pretty solid coaching staff. Now I'm sure you'll bring up the whole lack of money issue here in Toronto and to a degree you might be right, but in 2012-'13, Braley must have spent some money because I highly doubt that either Jones or O'Shea came cheap. Players still have to be coached, and in Calgary "next man up" seems to work well, Toronto doesn't have the same success, is that solely on Barker or does Milanovich and his coaching staff also share some of the blame ?

I've already stated my opinion on Milanovich and I'll state this part of it once again. Starting in 2016 the excuses are no longer acceptable, a less than winning season (10-8 minimum) is unacceptable. I'm not saying that Milanovich has to win 14 or more games a season, because I think that's a ridiculous expectation, but a winning season and tops in the East isn't. If Milanovich really is the Doug Flutie of coaching as some seem to think he is around here, I have yet to see it and I want to be proven wrong.

[Argo57]

He hasn't been asked or expected to do that, so it's not relevant IMO. He's only a coach, and that's what I'm rating him on: how -- as a head coach -- he handled the challenges thrown his way that no other head coach in the league had to contend with. Happy to discuss Hufnagel vs. Barker as team builders, or Hufnagel vs. Austin vs. Buono as coach/GMs, but that's not the subject of this particular discussion.

Milanovich has done an admirable job under trying circumstances, after the Hamilton ESF loss I was more receptive to change, but time and perspective says he more than deserves to be back.
Credit to him and Barker for staying around, many coaches would (and have) bolted out of town at the first chance.
Let's see what Milanovich and staff can do when the team he works for actually conducts themselves like a professional organization instead of some bush league high school team.

[R.J]

Let's see what Milanovich and staff can do when the team he works for actually conducts themselves like a professional organization instead of some bush league high school team.
^ This x1000.

[paulwoods13]

I am pretty sure the Argos practised at other sites, including Thomas Aquinas in Oakville, several times in and before 2014. Iirc the Mississauga facility became an unusable quagmire any time it rained. But that's just nitpicking.

Pretty sure I never said Milanovich is the best coach in the league "because he's had to deal with more than any other coach." I do feel he has had to deal with more than any other coach, and i do feel he's one of the best coaches in the league. The fact he had more to deal with than others and has done so effectively is just one part of what makes him a top coach. It's not like that alone causes me to rate him highly. But regardless, clearly I have a different opinion of him than snowrogue does. C'est la vie. I continue to believe that we are fortunate to have him and will likely rue the day he leaves, which i hope will not be for many years.

[paulwoods13]

"Why is his winning percentage lower than Jones's or Huf's?"

Leaving aside this overly familiar "Huf," there are dozens of potential causes, many of which have been articulated already in this thread and elsewhere. Talent at their disposal, injuries, money to recruit and retain (coaches as well as players), consistent infrastructure to work within, etc. The best coach in any sport does not necessarily have the highest winning percentage. Barry Trotz, who got Nashville into the playoffs year after year with a low payroll and no one who could score goals, is likely a better coach than joel quenneville or Darryl Sutter.

If you base judgment solely on winning percentage, you may as well not bother making judgments at all and just let the numbers do it. And you should take into account WP in post season as well, where "Huf" has a record barely over .500, and just two Grey Cups in eight seasons (same percentage as Milanovich's one in four, btw).

[doubleblue]

Snow wrote:

Elizondo was originally brought into the League by Trestman, then let go, went back to the States, then brought in by Barker in 2010. Not sure how that means he's a part of the Milanovich coaching tree, but okay.

Okay okay, I'm sorry I screwed up the facts. :rolleyes:. I will reword it.

Another guy who coached on Scott Milanovich'd staff has received a promotion to another team. Jim Barker as well has an eye for talent and might suggest someone but I believe most Coaches hire their own assistants.
Also, So okay Trestman brought Elizondo into the League first in Montreal as an assistant, but he worked under the OC there at the time Scott Milanovich.
Merry Christmas.

[jerrym]

Any Ideas as who his replacement might be?

I hope it's someone with CFL experience, not a NFL/US college-only coach. In other words let the CFL game of coaching musical chairs continue (without violating the moratorium on coaching changes).

[Fumblitis]

Milanovich has done an admirable job under trying circumstances, after the Hamilton ESF loss I was more receptive to change, but time and perspective says he more than deserves to be back.
Credit to him and Barker for staying around, many coaches would (and have) bolted out of town at the first chance.
Let's see what Milanovich and staff can do when the team he works for actually conducts themselves like a professional organization instead of some bush league high school team.I would agree with this. Most of the time when ownership of an organization changes hands they often bring in their own guys. When TanenBell took over, one of their first priorities was to lock up Barker and Milanovich. So yeah I'd classify Milanovich as one of the league's elite coaches.