Forum/Toronto Star Poll Results

[ArgoRavi]

http://www.thestar.com/sports/2015/12/31/poll-shows-sports-fans-warmed-up-to-blue-jays-but-coldly-indifferent-to-argos.html

Argos didn't fare well in this poll but still matched TFC for what it's worth despite TFC having its best season and the Argos, off the field, having perhaps its worst ever with little marketing or presence in the Toronto marketplace in 2015. The Jays ran away with this poll but I suspect their numbers would have been halved at least if they had posted another mediocre season.

[1argoholic]

1001 folks from Ontario polled? Where in Ontario. If you call Joe in Sudbury he's going to say The Jays. Everyone hopped on that bandwagon. BS Poll!!!!

[Argo57]

http://www.thestar.com/sports/2015/12/31/poll-shows-sports-fans-warmed-up-to-blue-jays-but-coldly-indifferent-to-argos.html

Argos didn't fare well in this poll but still matched TFC for what it's worth despite TFC having its best season and the Argos, off the field, having perhaps its worst ever with little marketing or presence in the Toronto marketplace in 2015. The Jays ran away with this poll but I suspect their numbers would have been halved at least if they had posted another mediocre season.

Wouldn't read too much into this poll as argoholic touched on, perfect storm for the Blue Jays even the Leafs are only at 12%.

[jerrym]

http://www.thestar.com/sports/2015/12/31/poll-shows-sports-fans-warmed-up-to-blue-jays-but-coldly-indifferent-to-argos.html

Argos didn't fare well in this poll but still matched TFC for what it's worth despite TFC having its best season and the Argos, off the field, having perhaps its worst ever with little marketing or presence in the Toronto marketplace in 2015. The Jays ran away with this poll but I suspect their numbers would have been halved at least if they had posted another mediocre season.

I agree that a lot of the Jays' support is of the bandwagon variety. It's also interesting that the RedBlacks polled 15% in eastern Ontario, suggesting that their Cinderella season brought them a lot of support in addition to the base they already have. I think a good season at the new BMO field under new ownership could also give the Argos a mini-Cinderella effect.
Finally, who would have thought in the Toronto Star would disparage the Argos in any way?:bored:

[Ballstothewall]

Funny, since TFC was tied with the Argos on this poll, yet you will never see a story printed that TFC is suffering from fan apathy.

[Wobbler]

The full results (and methodology) are available in this file (http://poll.forumresearch.com/data/4aaf252e-61fb-4bca-b18e-b707737bed2bOntario%20Year%20End%20Poll%20News%20R elease%20(2015%2012%2002)%20Forum%20Research.pdf). The sample set seems to be well distributed by region, age, and income level. It is inappropriate to automatically dismiss it because it includes unwelcome news.

Here are the detailed results relating to sports preferences (which comprise a rather small part of the overall survey):

<blockquote class="imgur-embed-pub" lang="en" data-id="em0eKIp"><a href="//imgur.com/em0eKIp">View post on imgur.com</a></blockquote><script async src="//s.imgur.com/min/embed.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Will]

That 18-34 is disturbing, but not surprising. The way the question was worded too would've allowed, I presume, for a respondent to select all of the teams that they were going to cheer for. The new ownership has their work cut out for them.

[Wobbler]

The way the question was worded too would've allowed, I presume, for a respondent to select all of the teams that they were going to cheer for.
I don't think so. Each of the columns adds up to ~100%, so apparently only top choices were recorded. It's not quite as grim as it appears.

[ArgoRavi]

I don't think so. Each of the columns adds up to ~100%, so apparently only top choices were recorded. It's not quite as grim as it appears.

The Toronto Star article that accompanied the poll indicated it was only asking for the top choice.

[argotom]

1001 folks from Ontario polled? Where in Ontario. If you call Joe in Sudbury he's going to say The Jays. Everyone hopped on that bandwagon. BS Poll!!!!


Agreed.
This comes from the Star a big Argos and CFL haters of many years.

[Neely2005]

Agreed.
This comes from the Star a big Argos and CFL haters of many years.

I'm definitely not a fan of the Red Star but they didn't conduct the Poll themselves.

[Tau Ceti]

Forum provides exclusive polls to any paper interested, sometimes undertaking the research themselves and selling it after the fact. I doubt they had any particular axe to grind with this poll.

[paulwoods13]

Forum provides exclusive polls to any paper interested, sometimes undertaking the research themselves and selling it after the fact. I doubt they had any particular axe to grind with this poll.

Aw, why ruin a good story line?

[Downtownfan]

Perhaps not the poll itself, but the headline and some of interpretation is certainly written in a particular manner. Why aren't Ontarians "coldly indifferent" to TFC, since they poll the same as the Argos? Why isn't there more notice of the fact that more than a third have no favourite team? What about the huge group of 65+ who are Jays fans-- what, no commentary on their largely "old" or "dying" fanbase? It's not about "ruining a good storyline," but about re-enforcing a longstanding narrative: "no one cares about the Argos, Argos fans are old and dying off, etc."

The funny thing is, there are a number of memes that can no longer be used in this "Argos demise" narrative, which has been a standard trope of much of the Toronto media for some time: No more "they are homeless." No more "they have no owners." No more "Braley Bowl." No more "destitute Argos," or "will they die." Also no more "NFL to Toronto is inevitable." Instead, you will see the Toronto media largely ignore the team. Look at the total combined columns on the Argos/CFL by Bruce Arthur, Cathal Kelly or any of the other usual suspects. How will they deal with the relative success of the team in the coming year? Likely, they will largely ignore it, even though it is, by any account, a pretty compelling story or survival, and renaissance. Even at this stage, without any tickets actually sold, the Argos are in a fantastic place: New, wealthy owners (the wealthiest owners in Canadian sports, in fact), a new venue, and a Grey Cup in 2016. But hey, don't let the good news get in the way of a longstanding narrative that fits the prejudices of most of the Toronto media.

[Will]

Perhaps not the poll itself, but the headline and some of interpretation is certainly written in a particular manner. Why aren't Ontarians "coldly indifferent" to TFC, since they poll the same as the Argos? Why isn't there more notice of the fact that more than a third have no favourite team? What about the huge group of 65+ who are Jays fans-- what, no commentary on their largely "old" or "dying" fanbase? It's not about "ruining a good storyline," but about re-enforcing a longstanding narrative: "no one cares about the Argos, Argos fans are old and dying off, etc."

The funny thing is, there are a number of memes that can no longer be used in this "Argos demise" narrative, which has been a standard trope of much of the Toronto media for some time: No more "they are homeless." No more "they have no owners." No more "Braley Bowl." No more "destitute Argos," or "will they die." Also no more "NFL to Toronto is inevitable." Instead, you will see the Toronto media largely ignore the team. Look at the total combined columns on the Argos/CFL by Bruce Arthur, Cathal Kelly or any of the other usual suspects. How will they deal with the relative success of the team in the coming year? Likely, they will largely ignore it, even though it is, by any account, a pretty compelling story or survival, and renaissance. Even at this stage, without any tickets actually sold, the Argos are in a fantastic place: New, wealthy owners (the wealthiest owners in Canadian sports, in fact), a new venue, and a Grey Cup in 2016. But hey, don't let the good news get in the way of a longstanding narrative that fits the prejudices of most of the Toronto media.

Well said!

I agree with Wobbler that we cannot dismiss the poll results out of hand because we do not like the results or the publication that published/commissioned it, but Downtownfan does bring up some good points about the narrative that is being presented in the write-up.

[Neely2005]

Perhaps not the poll itself, but the headline and some of interpretation is certainly written in a particular manner. Why aren't Ontarians "coldly indifferent" to TFC, since they poll the same as the Argos? Why isn't there more notice of the fact that more than a third have no favourite team? What about the huge group of 65+ who are Jays fans-- what, no commentary on their largely "old" or "dying" fanbase? It's not about "ruining a good storyline," but about re-enforcing a longstanding narrative: "no one cares about the Argos, Argos fans are old and dying off, etc."

The funny thing is, there are a number of memes that can no longer be used in this "Argos demise" narrative, which has been a standard trope of much of the Toronto media for some time: No more "they are homeless." No more "they have no owners." No more "Braley Bowl." No more "destitute Argos," or "will they die." Also no more "NFL to Toronto is inevitable." Instead, you will see the Toronto media largely ignore the team. Look at the total combined columns on the Argos/CFL by Bruce Arthur, Cathal Kelly or any of the other usual suspects. How will they deal with the relative success of the team in the coming year? Likely, they will largely ignore it, even though it is, by any account, a pretty compelling story or survival, and renaissance. Even at this stage, without any tickets actually sold, the Argos are in a fantastic place: New, wealthy owners (the wealthiest owners in Canadian sports, in fact), a new venue, and a Grey Cup in 2016. But hey, don't let the good news get in the way of a longstanding narrative that fits the prejudices of most of the Toronto media.

You raise many good points but I don't think that the Bell owned media properties will continue to ignore the Argonauts.

[marcwagz]

baseball is so boring.
can't believe anyone would follow the snooze jays
good if you have some insomnia

[Golden Fleece]

Here's a photo of a poll that appeared in the Globe and Mail today worth comparing to the Star poll. While it shows the Argos as 4th of 5 pro teams in Toronto, I was heartened by the team's relative strength with 12-17 year olds. Hope for the future.
708

[AngeloV]

Here's a photo of a poll that appeared in the Globe and Mail today worth comparing to the Star poll. While it shows the Argos as 4th of 5 pro teams in Toronto, I was heartened by the team's relative strength with 12-17 year olds. Hope for the future.
708

Still hard to take any such polls seriously. That poll was taken pretty much after the season in which Blue Jay fever was high as hell in the city. I really doubt that if it was done a year earlier the results for them would have been anywhere near where they ended up. For the most part, polls like that are useless, IMO.

[Golden Fleece]

Still hard to take any such polls seriously. That poll was taken pretty much after the season in which Blue Jay fever was high as hell in the city. I really doubt that if it was done a year earlier the results for them would have been anywhere near where they ended up. For the most part, polls like that are useless, IMO. Useless is a bit strong. It's revealing insofar as a last place Leafs team is still more popular than a playoff contending Raptors team. The demographic breakdowns by age and gender also give teams an idea where they have the most growth potential and if their efforts at reaching out are having an impact. It also helps explain why TFC TV ratings are so low despite the fervour of their ticket buying core.

[Tobythor]

I'm not surprised that Argo interest is low in my demographic (18 to 34). Unfortunately, my peers have the attitude that it's cool to slam the CFL. It's too bad since a lot of "football fans" miss out on watching pro football in Toronto because they feel they can't go to the Argos in fear they will lose their coolness card. Being an Argos fan is actually a part of my identity amongst my friends and I even have the occasional "closet" CFL fan confide with me from time to time lol. Don't get me started on how my generation are a bunch of lemmings lol.

[AngeloV]

Useless is a bit strong. It's revealing insofar as a last place Leafs team is still more popular than a playoff contending Raptors team. The demographic breakdowns by age and gender also give teams an idea where they have the most growth potential and if their efforts at reaching out are having an impact. It also helps explain why TFC TV ratings are so low despite the fervour of their ticket buying core.

I did say useless was in my opinion. Also to me, the Leafs thing over the Raptors isn't surprising at all. Leafs are untouchable as far as followers go in this market. In my life time, no one will compete with them. As for TFC ratings vs ticket buyers, it's similar to New York and Chicago with hockey. There really aren't a lot of fans of those teams that aren't already going to the games.

[Golden Fleece]

I'm not surprised that Argo interest is low in my demographic (18 to 34). Unfortunately, my peers have the attitude that it's cool to slam the CFL. It's too bad since a lot of "football fans" miss out on watching pro football in Toronto because they feel they can't go to the Argos in fear they will lose their coolness card. Being an Argos fan is actually a part of my identity amongst my friends and I even have the occasional "closet" CFL fan confide with me from time to time lol. Don't get me started on how my generation are a bunch of lemmings lol. The millennials I know would rather drive to party at a Bills game than stay close to home for the Argos. If the Fan Zone in the south end takes off, do you think it would pull in more of your friends?

[R.J]

I did say useless was in my opinion. Also to me, the Leafs thing over the Raptors isn't surprising at all. Leafs are untouchable as far as followers go in this market. In my life time, no one will compete with them. As for TFC ratings vs ticket buyers, it's similar to New York and Chicago with hockey. There really aren't a lot of fans of those teams that aren't already going to the games.
The Blackhawks are second only to the Cubs in regional tv ratings; at least a couple-few years ago they were.

[Tobythor]

I have a 4 to 5 friends who are casual fans that have gone to games with me, gotten my seats when I couldn't use them or benefitted from my freebies. Generally, these friends will only go to games when prompted by me, the move to BMO has sparked their interest, a couple were looking into seasons and the others told me the will be going to a few games for sure. Most of the die hard haters haven't shown anymore interest as of yet but if it becomes cool I can see them going "remember they are followers". I do believe that the potential tailgate and fan zone will increase the chances of making the Argos a cool thing. If the Argos can win over liberty village millenials they will have a good chance of making it perceived as cool. I decided to up my social media post of good times at the games with hopes of getting friends and acquaintances interested.

[1argoholic]

Too bad that people have to feel the need to be like sheep or lemmings just following the crowd. This is no different then when my former friends would joke about the Argos and this was 20 to 30 years ago. Those buttplugs haven't been my friends for about that long at this point. Not too much in the mainstream is cool to me. Yet most people need some sort of validation and think that certain things are cool because they are mass marketed to death. I've never given a crap what people think. If any of your buddies got a chance to meet NFL players and CFL players they'd think that the CFL players are cool, down to earth guys who have the time for average folks. I put money on the fact that NFL players on the whole would be DICKS!

[PullTogether73]

The millennials I know would rather drive to party at a Bills game than stay close to home for the Argos. If the Fan Zone in the south end takes off, do you think it would pull in more of your friends?

This says a lot when one considers that it is over a two hour drive to get to the game/party and one then has to watch the Buffalo Bills. These people must really want to party.
:sick:

[Golden Fleece]

This says a lot when one considers that it is over a two hour drive to get to the game/party and one then has to watch the Buffalo Bills. These people must really want to party.
:sick: I guess when one's team has missed the playoffs as long as the Bills all that's left is to get plastered and hope you end up in a deadspin article.

[Argo57]

Too bad that people have to feel the need to be like sheep or lemmings just following the crowd. This is no different then when my former friends would joke about the Argos and this was 20 to 30 years ago. Those buttplugs haven't been my friends for about that long at this point. Not too much in the mainstream is cool to me. Yet most people need some sort of validation and think that certain things are cool because they are mass marketed to death. I've never given a crap what people think. If any of your buddies got a chance to meet NFL players and CFL players they'd think that the CFL players are cool, down to earth guys who have the time for average folks. I put money on the fact that NFL players on the whole would be DICKS!

You bring up a good point, even 30-40 years ago when the Argonauts were getting 40-45k crowds I remember many comments intimating that the CFL was a substandard product to the NFL.
Unfortunately the CFL stuck with the assinine blackout policy instead of exposing the game to as many fans as possible resulting in a couple of generations getting their football fix watching the NFL on TV.