Argos need an upgrade at rb

[eiben35]

I really believe the
Argos need an upgrade at the rb position. I don't think Whitaker, Kackert or Steele is the answer. If John White is healthy and available would you take a chance on him?

[PullTogether73]

Can he block?
First requirement of a RB in the Argonauts offence.

[paulwoods13]

We need an RB who can (in order of importance) pass-block, catch passes and keep the defence honest with 10 or so effective carries per game. And a backup who can do the same when needed. The offence doesn't need a workhorse ball-carrier. IMO Whitaker was very effective in the role this offence has for the RB. He's getting on in years but I see no reason to dump him. If White or Anthony Allen or (wait for it) Henry Josey can do it as or more effectively, great. But IMO RB is not a pressing need.

[Jon Gonzo]

I really believe the
Argos need an upgrade at the rb position. I don't think Whitaker, Kackert or Steele is the answer. If John White is healthy and available would you take a chance on him?

Coach Milanovich loves Brandon Whitaker. He's one smart, tough, complete football player. Completely assignment sound and trustworthy. The Argo O, as designed, isn't set for any one guy who'll lead the league in rushing. Bring another guy in and we'd quickly be asking why he is having such an 'off season.' If these 3 guys come back and are complimented by a youngster like Josey.....then I am happy.

[jerrym]

I'd like to see the Argos bring Anthony Allen to TC. While I still like Whitaker, at 31 in September, he is getting a little long in the tooth especially for a RB, so having two RBs available is important with all the wear and tear of an 18 game season.

[doubleblue]

I like the three guys they have now, but better is better if they happen to find someone who jumps out in training camp. If Whittaker was only 25 and Kackert was the same guy he was in 2012 we would be laughing. I expect to see a couple of good RB prospects in camp in June and the holdovers will have to prove they are better to keep their jobs.

[AngeloV]

I'd like to see the Argos bring Anthony Allen to TC. While I still like Whitaker, at 31 in September, he is getting a little long in the tooth especially for a RB, so having two RBs available is important with all the wear and tear of an 18 game season.

I like Anthony Allen a lot too. I think Chaimblin really screwed with him.

[R.J]

I would love to see Allen at least brought in for TC, but not so sure about his blocking ability, so I doubt Milanovich has much use for him. John White when healthy is the best back in the league IMO, the problem with that is............. he's rarely healthy.

[gilthethrill]

Whittaker was the best player on the field for either team in the ESF. I would hate to think that was his last in an Argo uniform. Kackert, one of my favourite all time Argos seemed to be looked over last year and I doubt will return. I think both those players can still play at the level required.

[ArgoZ]

Coach Milanovich loves Brandon Whitaker. He's one smart, tough, complete football player. Completely assignment sound and trustworthy. The Argo O, as designed, isn't set for any one guy who'll lead the league in rushing. Bring another guy in and we'd quickly be asking why he is having such an 'off season.' If these 3 guys come back and are complimented by a youngster like Josey.....then I am happy.

I would agree, however with one substitution. A youngster like Coombs to compliment them would be more appropriate. Not only is he a National, but he's noticably improving every game. Josey has great, slippery moves in practice and then seems to never be able to translate that to game day. It's so frustrating watching him consistently getting tackled for a loss. It feels like Kack never gets tackled behind the line and not only does he outperform him offensively, but is also a better blocker. Bring him back and part ways with Josey.

[paulwoods13]

Jeremiah Johnson sucked with the Argos, then figured it out when he got to Ottawa. Josey could still figure it out.

[Double Dare]

I don't think Kackert will be back to playing regularly.

[Will]

I don't think Kackert will be back to playing regularly.

Unfortunately, this is probably so.

[jerrym]

I would agree, however with one substitution. A youngster like Coombs to compliment them would be more appropriate. Not only is he a National, but he's noticably improving every game. Josey has great, slippery moves in practice and then seems to never be able to translate that to game day. It's so frustrating watching him consistently getting tackled for a loss. It feels like Kack never gets tackled behind the line and not only does he outperform him offensively, but is also a better blocker. Bring him back and part ways with Josey.

I love Coombs but the Argos show no signs of using him to complement any RB. In 2014 Coombs ran the balls 8 times for 75 yards but caught 22 passes for 214 yards. The disparity between his running and catching totals became even greater in 2015 when he ran 9 times for 39, but caught 57 passes for 486 yards. The Argos rightly or wrongly seem to be concerned allegedly 5'9'', 170 lb Coombs would not stand up to the punishment RBs typically receive.

[paulwoods13]

The reason there is a large disparity between his rushes and receptions is because he lines up every down at slotback, not RB. I also don't expect he's going to be moved to RB, but it's not based on how few carries he has had, but on the position he has been assigned to play for his entire pro career.

[jerrym]

The reason there is a large disparity between his rushes and receptions is because he lines up every down at slotback, not RB. I also don't expect he's going to be moved to RB, but it's not based on how few carries he has had, but on the position he has been assigned to play for his entire pro career.

My point and yours are not mutually exclusive. Teams put players where they think they can take best advantage of their skill set, other things being equal. Slotbacks obviously do not run a lot, but Coombs serious injury last year and his build have also raised questions about his durability longterm as a RB.

[ArgoRavi]

My point and yours are not mutually exclusive. Teams put players where they think they can take best advantage of their skill set, other things being equal. Slotbacks obviously do not run a lot, but Coombs serious injury last year and his build have also raised questions about his durability longterm as a RB.

The only real concern about Coombs prior to the draft was his durability as a RB as he had injury issues at Manitoba. I don't see the Argos moving him back to that position.

[Argo57]

I'm sure Jim Barker's mindset is they do need an upgrade at RB and virtually all other positions.
Personally IMO the Argonaut running game didn't concern anyone last year a big problem, but I wouldn't necessarily blame the RB's, the O-Line wasn't very good and that has to be addressed before any improvement will be seen.

[Argo]

I'm sure Jim Barker's mindset is they do need an upgrade at RB and virtually all other positions.
Personally IMO the Argonaut running game didn't concern anyone last year a big problem, but I wouldn't necessarily blame the RB's, the O-Line wasn't very good and that has to be addressed before any improvement will be seen.

Nothing good results from a crappy O-line !

[doubleblue]

The only real concern about Coombs prior to the draft was his durability as a RB as he had injury issues at Manitoba. I don't see the Argos moving him back to that position.

I agree with these comments and Jerrym, Coombs to me hasn't shown he has the durability to be a RB in the CFL. Also he hasn't shown he can break tackles inside. A hybrid position of slotback/receiver is IMO his best position. He has some ability and moves in the open field.
The Argo OLine might not have been the best in the CFL, but Whittaker got some decent yardage like he did in Montreal. A good RB can make an average OLine look better, and Whittaker IMO is a good back. But his age is a concern. Hence the need for a good alternate back, which I hope is Kackert.

[Neely2005]

I don't think Kackert will be back to playing regularly.

Which is frustrating because he looked good every time that he played in 2015.

[ArgoRavi]

Which is frustrating because he looked good every time that he played in 2015.

He looked good in two games against Winnipeg. He didn't look as good in the other games that he played. Kackert could be part of some kind of rotation at the tailback position but I am not sold that he can be an every-down back anymore. Whitaker, on the other hand, seemed most effective as an every-down back.

[Neely2005]

He looked good in two games against Winnipeg. He didn't look as good in the other games that he played. Kackert could be part of some kind of rotation at the tailback position but I am not sold that he can be an every-down back anymore. Whitaker, on the other hand, seemed most effective as an every-down back.

I agree that he looked better against Winnipeg but I thought he looked good in every game. Especially considering that he got pretty limited touches in some of those games.

[OV Argo]

He looked good in two games against Winnipeg. He didn't look as good in the other games that he played. Kackert could be part of some kind of rotation at the tailback position but I am not sold that he can be an every-down back anymore. Whitaker, on the other hand, seemed most effective as an every-down back.


Kackert averaged 6.0 yds/carry with the Argos last season compared to Whitaker's 5.3; a RB averaging over .5 yds/carry more than another RB (playing with the same offence/O-line) is quite significant IMO (and career yards/carry average is IMO the most telling stat for full-time tailback types - Kackert's career mark is close to 6.4 which is just outstanding, and Whitaker's is nowhere close to that) = no question in my mind that Kackert is the way better between the tackles / more explosive RB vs. Whitaker; BUT - Whitaker is still a very good all-around back who can combined carry, block and catch passes quite effectively. AND - that is probably rated much more important in this Argo mostly pass offence - easy to see why Whitaker is valued; AND - is Kackert really back to 100% like early in his Argo career, and unlikely to get injured again? - fairly limited sample last season - these are concerns for sure

Too bad Kack had those injury issues and great to see him fight back into shape to play again. Can't take away that season where his explosive running was a key to a GC winning team; not sure the offensive brain trust with this team fully get or appreciate that however.

[Neely2005]

Kackert averaged 6.0 yds/carry with the Argos last season compared to Whitaker's 5.3; a RB averaging over .5 yds/carry more than another RB (playing with the same offence/O-line) is quite significant IMO (and career yards/carry average is IMO the most telling stat for full-time tailback types - Kackert's career mark is close to 6.4 which is just outstanding, and Whitaker's is nowhere close to that) = no question in my mind that Kackert is the way better between the tackles / more explosive RB vs. Whitaker; BUT - Whitaker is still a very good all-around back who can combined carry, block and catch passes quite effectively. AND - that is probably rated much more important in this Argo mostly pass offence - easy to see why Whitaker is valued; AND - is Kackert really back to 100% like early in his Argo career, and unlikely to get injured again? - fairly limited sample last season - these are concerns for sure

Too bad Kack had those injury issues and great to see him fight back into shape to play again. Can't take away that season where his explosive running was a key to a GC winning team; not sure the offensive brain trust with this team fully get or appreciate that however.

He does seem to be under appreciated by the Argonauts staff lately.

[timlb01]

The problem with Kackert is his durability. Just like Durie. I love these guys and they are unbelievable but when they are hurt frequently it is hard to justify roster spots. I personally would move on from both of them when it comes to roster spots but Barker will probably go with Durie and Kack can be the conditioning coach again. Do you think other CFL teams would take the chance on Kack? I don't but for the right price they would on Durie.

[ArgoRavi]

The problem with Kackert is his durability. Just like Durie. I love these guys and they are unbelievable but when they are hurt frequently it is hard to justify roster spots. I personally would move on from both of them when it comes to roster spots but Barker will probably go with Durie and Kack can be the conditioning coach again. Do you think other CFL teams would take the chance on Kack? I don't but for the right price they would on Durie.

There was an article a few weeks ago in the Sun which indicated that the Argos would be bringing Durie back for the 2016 season. Whether they bring Kackert back may depend on who else they sign/recruit this off-season. I wouldn't be surprised to see them not make a decision on Kackert until just before training camp.

[AngeloV]

There was an article a few weeks ago in the Sun which indicated that the Argos would be bringing Durie back for the 2016 season. Whether they bring Kackert back may depend on who else they sign/recruit this off-season. I wouldn't be surprised to see them not make a decision on Kackert until just before training camp.

Is Kackert not under contract for 2016? He doesn't appear to be on the FA tracker list. Good piece of insurance.

[R.J]

I could see Kackert retiring and I'm disappointed to hear that Barker and Milo are bringing Durie back. Whitaker is epitome of what Milanovich wants in his offense. Yes, it would be great to have an elite running back, someone who could lead the league in rushing yards, but I doubt we ever see that with Milo around. Josey can't run between tackles, yet Milanovich keeps him around because he can block relatively well. Campbell is a beast between the tackles, but doesn't block, so he was let go, tells you all you need to know about any potential "upgrade' at running back.

[paulwoods13]

I'm disappointed to hear that Barker and Milo are bringing Durie back.

Why? What is the downside? If he's too beat up to return, cut him or get him to retire. The notion that because he has suffered back-to-back season-ending injuries he can't possibly be healthy enough to play in 2016 has no basis in fact until he gets on the field. And if he is healthy enough to play he's guaranteed to make a positive contribution and could start.


Josey can't run between tackles, yet Milanovich keeps him around because he can block relatively well. Campbell is a beast between the tackles, but doesn't block, so he was let go, tells you all you need to know about any potential "upgrade' at running back.

This is based on what? Did Milanovich ever say Josey can block well, or that Campbell can't? Or is this just an assumption, that we wouldn't keep a guy who can't block and wouldn't cut a guy who can? I personally have no idea whether Josey can pass-block because he hardly took an offensive snap after week 2 or so. And with Campbell, it's pure guesswork.

[ArgoRavi]

I could see Kackert retiring and I'm disappointed to hear that Barker and Milo are bringing Durie back. Whitaker is epitome of what Milanovich wants in his offense. Yes, it would be great to have an elite running back, someone who could lead the league in rushing yards, but I doubt we ever see that with Milo around. Josey can't run between tackles, yet Milanovich keeps him around because he can block relatively well. Campbell is a beast between the tackles, but doesn't block, so he was let go, tells you all you need to know about any potential "upgrade' at running back.

Are you talking about Dillon Campbell? I don't recall him making much of an impact at training camp. I know he had a good year in OUA but being a "beast between the tackles" against the likes of York and U of T is not necessarily indicative of being able to do that at the pro level.

[R.J]

Why? What is the downside? If he's too beat up to return, cut him or get him to retire. The notion that because he has suffered back-to-back season-ending injuries he can't possibly be healthy enough to play in 2016 has no basis in fact until he gets on the field. And if he is healthy enough to play he's guaranteed to make a positive contribution and could start.
Milo is loyal to his players to a fault, Durie can't stay healthy, while he's one of my favourite players, I would rather see Coombs get the necessary reps to develop, but with Andre around, he's (Durie) probably penciled in as the starter and an injury waiting to happen. I'd rather the Argonauts not waste time.


This is based on what? Did Milanovich ever say Josey can block well, or that Campbell can't? Or is this just an assumption, that we wouldn't keep a guy who can't block and wouldn't cut a guy who can? I personally have no idea whether Josey can pass-block because he hardly took an offensive snap after week 2 or so. And with Campbell, it's pure guesswork.
Milo brought up during TC that Josey did a good job blocking. If you saw Campbell play at all last season, you'd know that pass blocking is not his strong suit. Milanovich has stated to the media multiple times that pass blocking is the most important duty for his running backs.

[R.J]

Are you talking about Dillon Campbell? I don't recall him making much of an impact at training camp. I know he had a good year in OUA but being a "beast between the tackles" against the likes of York and U of T is not necessarily indicative of being able to do that at the pro level.
Yes, Dillion Campbell. I can't disagree with you though, playing against CIS defenses is very different than playing against pro defenses, however even in saying that Campbell is a bigger back that plows through guys, reminds me a lot of Cory Boyd and we won't know if he can do the same in the CFL until he's given his shot.

[paulwoods13]

Durie injured last two years, therefore can't possibly be healthy this year.

Milanovich places a high value on backs who can pass-block, therefore wouldn't keep a back who can't block and would keep a back who can block but can't do anything else.

And the world is black and white.

[AngeloV]

Campbell is a bigger back that plows through guys, reminds me a lot of Cory Boyd

Are you sure you're talking about Dillon Campbell? At 5'8" 190 lbs, I fail to see how he's a bigger back and can remind you of Boyd (6"1" 215 lbs)

Even Whitaker is bigger than Campbell.

[R.J]

Are you sure you're talking about Dillon Campbell? At 5'8" 190 lbs, I fail to see how he's a bigger back and can remind you of Boyd (6"1" 215 lbs)

Even Whitaker is bigger than Campbell.

Probably should have said thicker lol. I get you're point, but when seeing him play, he looks like a "big boy" if that makes sense. He does remind me so much of Boyd, his playing style to be more precise, and I think you know how much I loved watching Boyd play.

[AngeloV]

Probably should have said thicker lol. I get you're point, but when seeing him play, he looks like a "big boy" if that makes sense. He does remind me so much of Boyd, his playing style to be more precise, and I think you know how much I loved watching Boyd play.

Yeah, I liked Boyd as well. Was quite surprised he just disappeared after a short stint with Edmonton.

[OV Argo]

Are you talking about Dillon Campbell? I don't recall him making much of an impact at training camp. I know he had a good year in OUA but being a "beast between the tackles" against the likes of York and U of T is not necessarily indicative of being able to do that at the pro level.


Just FYI Ravi - late in the CIS season - Campbell went off for 39 carries and 285 yards ! vs. McMaster; and in the play-offs against Western he had a 53 yard run before he got injured and knocked out of the game; but yeah - keep being dismissive of top notch Canadian talent - especially at skill positions - like your gob heroes tell you to.

And anybody who believes the likes of Whitaker or a stiff like Josey are some sort of devastating blocking backs and that's why they are so valued by this Argo offensive brain-trust, are in some kind of fantasy football dream land; a decent little blocking back who can also run & catch quite well is one thing - a guy who throws a chip block and then is a check-down option as a main feature of your offence = whatever; how bout having a powerful tailback in where you are going to actually try to work the ground game ? ; if they want a powerhouse blocking back they could put the likes of Dupuis in the game way more often for those situations - the guy is a moose who can block like a truck and he's also shown he can catch passes and gain some yards, in limited opportunity.

[R.J]

And anybody who believes the likes of Whitaker or a stiff like Josey are some sort of devastating blocking backs and that's why they are so valued by this Argo offensive brain-trust, are in some kind of fantasy football dream land; a decent little blocking back who can also run & catch quite well is one thing - a guy who throws a chip block and then is a check-down option as a main feature of your offence = whatever; how bout having a powerful tailback in where you are going to actually try to work the ground game ? ; if they want a powerhouse blocking back they could put the likes of Dupuis in the game way more often for those situations - the guy is a moose who can block like a truck and he's also shown he can catch passes and gain some yards, in limited opportunity.
I get the feeling that this was directed towards my comment, but I still maintain that Whitaker is the best overal back for Milanovich's system and as I've mentioned before Milanovich has stated that pass blocking is #1 for running backs in his system.While Kackert ended up working out well, Boyd IMO was still the better back and I'd much rather see a guy like Boyd or John White than a scatback that blocks marginally well.

[doubleblue]

I get the feeling that this was directed towards my comment, but I still maintain that Whitaker is the best overal back for Milanovich's system and as I've mentioned before Milanovich has stated that pass blocking is #1 for running backs in his system.While Kackert ended up working out well, Boyd IMO was still the better back and I'd much rather see a guy like Boyd or John White than a scatback that blocks marginally well.

I agree Whitaker was the Argos best RB last year, but I also agree with OV about the need for a big back that can do the same things as Whitaker. Most of the other teams in the League seem to be able to find those 215-220 lb RB's that have decent speed, can pass block and catch the ball out of the back field. Barker and Milanovich keep bring in these scat back type guys and expect them to block defensive linemen out weighing them by 50 lbs or more. The have been a few small RB's in the pas who were tough enough to do that but they are few and far between IMO. If they really want to protect Ricky Ray quit blaming the Offensive Line all the time and bring in a stud RB who can take on the DE's in the League.

[paulwoods13]

While Kackert ended up working out well, Boyd IMO was still the better back and I'd much rather see a guy like Boyd or John White than a scatback that blocks marginally well.

Boyd was only a better back in one of the three areas of responsibility: running the ball. Kackert was a better receiver/route-runner and an exponentially better pass-blocker. Of course, the fact he actually made an effort to pass-block put him ahead of Boyd on that score.

[Wobbler]

I think the best way to improve our running game would be to upgrade the O-Line, not to worry about employing a different type of RB. It's a more challenging task, since it will require replacing or demoting a few different guys, but far more rewarding.

I don't remember too many times last season where I thought "Damn - a stronger back would have broken that tackle" but there were plenty of cases where I thought "It sure would have been nice if the O-Line had created the lane the RB was looking for".

[OV Argo]

I agree Whitaker was the Argos best RB last year, but I also agree with OV about the need for a big back that can do the same things as Whitaker. Most of the other teams in the League seem to be able to find those 215-220 lb RB's that have decent speed, can pass block and catch the ball out of the back field. Barker and Milanovich keep bring in these scat back type guys and expect them to block defensive linemen out weighing them by 50 lbs or more. The have been a few small RB's in the pas who were tough enough to do that but they are few and far between IMO. If they really want to protect Ricky Ray quit blaming the Offensive Line all the time and bring in a stud RB who can take on the DE's in the League.


Dupuis is something like 6-34, 245 and IMO a very strong blocker; I understand he is not a threat to carry the ball, nor likely to make tacklers miss in the open field if he catches a pass (but he has shown he can catch and is a big load to bring down / could punish some small LBs & DBs when he gets the ball); however, if the thinking is blocking is the first and best thing the RB can do, why not have your biggest, best blocking back in a lot of the times when it's going to be a pass play call anyways? Why do you need a smaller scat back type in when you have no intention to establish a run game anyways? - do they really think that the defence fears or respects the run game much with that offence? I get a smaller back who is a good blocker and can catch a lot of swing or screen passes for good gainers, but I don\t see enough of those type of designed plays from that offence to merit a small back in the offence most of the time. A diverse offence means, IMO, having lots of looks and different play calls; could have a Whitaker mulit-purpose type back in some, a big fullback like Dupuis in some, plus find a more pure, powerful tailback type (a healthy Kackert for example) to get lots of reps in the offence, and establish a run game.

One standard look, 80% pass play calls, one simple run play, and lots of check-down stuff = boring, predictable, limited thinking offence IMO. But it is the go, er, CFL way now.

[R.J]

Boyd was only a better back in one of the three areas of responsibility: running the ball. Kackert was a better receiver/route-runner and an exponentially better pass-blocker. Of course, the fact he actually made an effort to pass-block put him ahead of Boyd on that score.
For me that that most important duty for a running back (running the ball). Had Boyd actually tried to block or learn how to block, I think he would've stuck around a bit longer.

[Argo57]

I agree Whitaker was the Argos best RB last year, but I also agree with OV about the need for a big back that can do the same things as Whitaker. Most of the other teams in the League seem to be able to find those 215-220 lb RB's that have decent speed, can pass block and catch the ball out of the back field. Barker and Milanovich keep bring in these scat back type guys and expect them to block defensive linemen out weighing them by 50 lbs or more. The have been a few small RB's in the pas who were tough enough to do that but they are few and far between IMO. If they really want to protect Ricky Ray quit blaming the Offensive Line all the time and bring in a stud RB who can take on the DE's in the League.

It all starts with the O-Line, even a "stud" RB won't be effective if there is no running lane to hit when he gets the ball.

[paulwoods13]

For me that that most important duty for a running back (running the ball). Had Boyd actually tried to block or learn how to block, I think he would've stuck around a bit longer.

I agree with the latter -- he had only himself to blame for being cut as he was a superb ball carrier. The most important duty for a RB, tho, is relative to the offensive design. In some offences (not in the CFL, obviously) it is to run the ball 20-25 times a game and gain 75-125 yards. In others it is to catch passes out the backfield. In ours it is to protect the QB. That's the offence SM has designed so it makes sense he would look for RBs who can do that first and foremost.

[AngeloV]

I'd think it's a bit overblown here the statement that a RB's most important function in SM's schemes is to block. Kind of sounds like tht is all that is important the way I'm reading some of these posts. Personally, I think he wants more of a back that can do it all...run, block and catch.

[OV Argo]

I'd think it's a bit overblown here the statement that a Ron's most important function in SM's schemes is to block. Kind of sounds like tht is all that is important the way I'm reading some of these posts. Personally, I think he wants more of a back that can do it all...run, block and catch.

Yep - agreed - and Whitaker fits that bill.

[R.J]

I'd think it's a bit overblown here the statement that a Ron's most important function in SM's schemes is to block. Kind of sounds like tht is all that is important the way I'm reading some of these posts. Personally, I think he wants more of a back that can do it all...run, block and catch.
Not disagreeing, while I've sarcastically stated that blocking is the only thing that matters to Milanovich, I've also stated that it's the most important in the offense (which Milanovich has stated), and Milanovich likes a jack of all trades type of scatback, if you will. I would much rather see fullbacks used as blocking backs and running backs run the ball and catch out of the back field when called upon. Boyd wasn't as bad at receiving as some make him out to be and someone like John White is also decent catching the ball. I don't want to see the Argonauts drop Whitaker, I think I been quite clear that he was the best Argonaut in 2015 IMO and absolutely loved his lunch box/blue collar style of professionalism. I do however miss seeing a dominant running back in the Argonauts offense getting more than 15 carries a game and averaging over 100 yards a game. I would like to see a lot of different things from our offense, but c'est la vie.

[AngeloV]

Boyd wasn't as bad at receiving as some make him out to be and someone like John White is also decent catching the ball.

Boyd had good hands, but as a receiver he was slow to make his first move after catching the ball. As a down field receiver running wheel routes, he was very good. As a check down, not so much.

[paulwoods13]

I'd think it's a bit overblown here the statement that a RB's most important function in SM's schemes is to block. Kind of sounds like tht is all that is important the way I'm reading some of these posts. Personally, I think he wants more of a back that can do it all...run, block and catch.

Yes, but not in that order: it's block, catch, run IMO.

[paulwoods13]

Boyd had good hands, but as a receiver he was slow to make his first move after catching the ball. As a down field receiver running wheel routes, he was very good. As a check down, not so much.

I agree with this analysis. And Kackert was all-around a much better receiver.

[AngeloV]

I agree with this analysis. And Kackert was all-around a much better receiver.

Kackert is a threat to make plays as a receiver, but I wouldn't call him a good receiver. He sure isn't a fluid route runner like Whitaker, and has problems reaching to catch the ball (might be because he has big, but short arms). The ball has to be thrown perfectly to him, but he is very good at taking short passes and getting yards. Much better than Boyd was.

[Will]

I'd think it's a bit overblown here the statement that a RB's most important function in SM's schemes is to block. Kind of sounds like that is all that is important the way I'm reading some of these posts. Personally, I think he wants more of a back that can do it all...run, block and catch.

It is a little bit overblown, but I'd place the ability to block and catch above the rushing ability especially as the CFL continues to phase out the FB position. The RB provides (i) pass protection in lieu of the FB and (ii) provides that safety valve for the QB because there might be a steady pass rush. Of course, you want to keep the defense honest with a competent RB.

[AngeloV]

It is a little bit overblown, but I'd place the ability to block and catch above the rushing ability especially as the CFL continues to phase out the FB position. The RB provides (i) pass protection in lieu of the FB and (ii) provides that safety valve for the QB because there might be a steady pass rush. Of course, you want to keep the defense honest with a competent RB.

Don't disagree. It's just that in reading some of the posts, it sounds like the Argos want someone that can block and don't give a damn if he can do anything else. I think they really want a good all around back.

[Will]

Don't disagree. It's just that in reading some of the posts, it sounds like the Argos want someone that can block and don't give a damn if he can do anything else. I think they really want a good all around back.

Shouldn't the ability to block be a pre-requisite for any starting running back?

[AngeloV]

Shouldn't the ability to block be a pre-requisite for any starting running back?

Yes, if they have any desire to be an every down back.

[doubleblue]

Shouldn't the ability to block be a pre-requisite for any starting running back?

It is, but the problem is also, just like the OLine, some guys are better at blocking than others. It is important for Milanovich's backs to have the smarts and timing to pick up those late blitzing LB's or Safeties. That's why Milo like's Whitaker, he can do it all. But he is a 31 year old RB with more than a few miles on him.
Reading a clip by Jim Barker, it sounds like they are willing to go into the season with Whitaker backed up by Steele. Some new guys would be needed for depth and training camp. If they are be better than Kackert and Josey that would be a plus.

[R.J]

Guys like White, Cornish, Powell and Gable are much better runners than receiving and especially blocking backs and they seem to be doing alright.
Boyd essentially not being able to or unwilling to block or learn how to block ultimately lead to his release in Toronto and Edmonton. Sad really, because IMO he was the best running back in the League for 2 seasons, on an offense that had Cleo Lemon and called by Jaime Elizondo.

[AngeloV]

Guys like White, Cornish, Powell and Gable are much better runners than receiving and especially blocking backs and they seem to be doing alright.
Boyd essentially not being able to or unwilling to block or learn how to block ultimately lead to his release in Toronto and Edmonton. Sad really, because IMO he was the best running back in the League for 2 seasons, on an offense that had Cleo Lemon and called by Jaime Elizondo.

Yeah, but in Canadian football, you have to do more than just be able to run the ball. That is why Robert Drummond and Sean Millington were both so good.

[Will]

Yes, if they have any desire to be an every down back.

Then what's Adrian Peterson's excuse?

[R.J]

Yeah, but in Canadian football, you have to do more than just be able to run the ball. That is why Robert Drummond and Sean Millington were both so good.
You do ? Mike Pringle had a pretty solid career.

[paulwoods13]

Guys like White, Cornish, Powell and Gable are much better runners than receiving and especially blocking backs and they seem to be doing alright.

Gable is an excellent pass-blocker and a good receiver: a real three-tool guy IMO. Cornish was a good receiver and of course an outstanding runner. I never paid much attention to his pass-blocking but I assume it was at least adequate. Powell has played five games but on the small sample size he does seem to be mostly a "traditional" type runner.

[R.J]

Gable is an excellent pass-blocker and a good receiver: a real three-tool guy IMO. Cornish was a good receiver and of course an outstanding runner. I never paid much attention to his pass-blocking but I assume it was at least adequate. Powell has played five games but on the small sample size he does seem to be mostly a "traditional" type runner.
Gable's much better at running and receiving than he is blocking, same with Cornish IMO. I agree about Powell though.

[AngeloV]

You do ? Mike Pringle had a pretty solid career.

Pringle played behind one of the greatest O-lines the league has ever seen. He was a good runner, but in the end, Robert Drummond won more Grey Cups.

[R.J]

Pringle played behind one of the greatest O-lines the league has ever seen. He was a good runner, but in the end, Robert Drummond won more Grey Cups.If you have to choose, would you take Pringle or Drummond ?

[timlb01]

If you have to choose, would you take Pringle or Drummond ?

Tough question as they both had different styles. I loved how the Argos used Drummond. If the personnel allowed I would go with a Drummond style / offence. Pringle was outstanding with the way they used him but I think the Argo offence and style of that time was superior.

[AngeloV]

If you have to choose, would you take Pringle or Drummond ?

Drummond in a heart beat. A guy that can run for and catch for 1,000 is way more difficult to defend. Also more of a threat to score from anywhere on the field.

[R.J]

Tough question as they both had different styles. I loved how the Argos used Drummond. If the personnel allowed I would go with a Drummond style / offence. Pringle was outstanding with the way they used him but I think the Argo offence and style of that time was superior.


Drummond in a heart beat. A guy that can run for and catch for 1,000 is way more difficult to defend. Also more of a threat to score from anywhere on the field.
Interesting. I'd go with Pringle, nothing at all against Drummond, but I like having a back that can drive the ball down the other team's throats (up the middle, over and over again), and take over the game and clock. Drummond could also take over the games at times as well, just in a different manner.

[timlb01]

Interesting. I'd go with Pringle, nothing at all against Drummond, but I like having a back that can drive the ball down the other team's throats (up the middle, over and over again), and take over the game and clock. Drummond could also take over the games at times as well, just in a different manner.

Maybe the best choice is to have both like Montreal did!!!! Unreal combination of players.

[paulwoods13]

Gable's much better at running and receiving than he is blocking, same with Cornish IMO. I agree about Powell though.

Kent Austin does not agree re Gable. He considers him the best blocking back in the CFL. I think that's an exaggeration but I feel he is pretty darned good at blocking. Cornish can't be terrible becuz Calgary QBs haven't been getting pounded regularly.

[OV Argo]

Interesting. I'd go with Pringle, nothing at all against Drummond, but I like having a back that can drive the ball down the other team's throats (up the middle, over and over again), and take over the game and clock. Drummond could also take over the games at times as well, just in a different manner.


As far as pure ball carrying tailbacks - it's not even close IMO - Pringle was a beast of a hard runner with power, balance and a bit of open field pop.

Drummond - OTOH - had the size and sprinter type speed, but was not near the hard running desire of a Pringle and it might have been scary if he did with that size & speed. Drummond was a very good all-around back - good receiver too, and at least had the size to block.

Different style backs - used differently in different offences - with great success. I'm more with SnowRouge ln liking a pure, pound the ball tailback; and your offence can still bring in a receiving type back or a big, powerful blocking back for different packages.