The time John Candy tried to bring 49ers' Joe Montana to Canada

[Will]

http://www.mercurynews.com/49ers/ci_29431180/time-john-candy-tried-bring-49ers-joe-montana

I believe that this may have been talked about a little bit in the Toronto Star at the time. Montana missed the 1991 season because of injuries and served as a back-up to Steve Young in 1992. I believe that Mark Rypien (being a Canadian) was also discussed. I'm going to try to find the article from the Star archives that discussed the possibility of both coming to the Argos (they were separate rumors).

In the article about Dunigan signing with Winnipeg on May 7, 1992 the Star says that there "is the possibility that the Argos will now pursue Washington Redskins quarterback Mark Rypien with greater intensity." This would have been immediately after the Redskins beat the Bills in the Super Bowl. The Star also had an article on May 22, 1992 stating that Rypien was to meet with the Argos. It seems that this flirtation lasted throughout the season as Rick Matsumoto states on November 6, 1992 that Rickey Foggie's struggles likely weren't helped by this flirtation.

Now to try to find something from that time connecting Montana and the Argos. I'm pretty sure I remember reading it at some point.

[Ron]

As I recall the Montana stuff gained no traction but the Rypien stuff got a lot of attention.

[argonaut11xx]

Mark Rypien is about as "Canadian" as Ted Cruz

[paulwoods13]

Rypien was at SkyDome for an early-season game in which Rickey Foggie led the Argos to a huge win (62-10, I think) over Sask. His presence didn't affect Foggie that night but I bet it didn't help, either. It's a storyline I intend to pursue in a future book.

[argonaut11xx]

I dont think Mark Rypien would have been a successful CFL QB , he would have been the second coming of Dan Manucci

[AngeloV]

I dont think Mark Rypien would have been a successful CFL QB , he would have been the second coming of Dan Manucci


Except unlike Manucci, Rypien had success in the NFL.

[argonaut11xx]

Except unlike Manucci, Rypien had success in the NFL.

Point well taken, but i also think that Dan Marino would have been a terrible CFL QB

[AngeloV]

Point well taken, but i also think that Dan Marino would have been a terrible CFL QB

Well I have no way of proving otherwise, but with his quick release (quickest I have ever seen) I respectfully disagree. I'm sure everyone thought David Archer would have been terrible too, but he put up some pretty good numbers.

[OV Argo]

Well I have no way of proving otherwise, but with his quick release (quickest I have ever seen) I respectfully disagree. I'm sure everyone thought David Archer would have been terrible too, but he put up some pretty good numbers.


Archer could scramble a bit plus had some NFL experience, and came into the CFL on an established team - Sacramento had been a successful team in the old WLAF or what-ever the ***& it was called. I thought he looked good in the CFL right away ( i was at the first ever American team in the CFL regular season game at Lansdowne and the Gold Miners almost beat the mostly sad sack Ottawa Rough Riders of those days)

And IMO - the great pure passing / pocket QBs of all time - guys like Marino or Manning - would do just fine to great in any football league - NFL, CFL, touch, lingerie football, etc. They might not be as suited for the CFL as mobile, scrambling QBs like Flutie or Dunigan, but the notion that a Marino would struggle in the CFL is laughable to me - guy had a great arm and was smart, and the CFL is a passing league. If an immobile under 6' guy like McManus could do well in the CFL with a good arm, a 6-5 Marino with a better arm would have no problem. Rypien was not even close to Marino's class though, but he had a strong arm and was similarly big and immobile. - i think he could have done fine in a good passing CFL offence.

[Rocket]

I remember the 1992 home opener when the Argos played the b.c.lions and Mark rypien was at the sideline behind the Argo bench. Ricky foggie led the Argos that night to a 61-20 win that night I remember rocket Ishmail scroring a touchdown and coming afterwards to mark rypien to embrace each other. After the game I remember there was a crowd of reporters from all over the place asking Ricky foggie about what he thought on Mark rypien being there and he kept on saying no comment like a thousand times in a 5 min period.

[Will]

I can appreciate that Marino had a quick release, he also had an excellent offensive line in Miami, which was also very good when Dave Woodley was the starter in 1981-1982 just prior to Marino being drafted. Marino wasn't a scrambler, but could be elusive in the pocket. Put him behind a rock solid offensive line and I'd be fascinated to see what Marino could do in the CFL.

What are people's opinions about Joe Montana playing in the CFL? He definitely had the smarts, but I'm not sure how well suited his arm strength would have been for the league. Enough people complain about Ray and Harris' tendency to check down. Well, Montana loved to use Roger Craig and Tom Rathman out of the backfield.

[OV Argo]

I can appreciate that Marino had a quick release, he also had an excellent offensive line in Miami, which was also very good when Dave Woodley was the starter in 1981-1982 just prior to Marino being drafted. Marino wasn't a scrambler, but could be elusive in the pocket. Put him behind a rock solid offensive line and I'd be fascinated to see what Marino could do in the CFL.

What are people's opinions about Joe Montana playing in the CFL? He definitely had the smarts, but I'm not sure how well suited his arm strength would have been for the league. Enough people complain about Ray and Harris' tendency to check down. Well, Montana loved to use Roger Craig and Tom Rathman out of the backfield.


You seriously have some doubts about wether Joe Montana would have been good in the CFL ??? - wow - cause IMO he is maybe the all-time greatest NFL QB - smart with great vision & reads, super accurate passing arm (never heard his arm strength questioned by NFL fans, though he maybe didn't have a rocket for an arm like some QBs), plus he was mobile and just plain won = he would have been an all-time great CFL QB talent if he played up here - IMO.

[AngeloV]

Archer could scramble a bit plus had some NFL experience, and came into the CFL on an established team - Sacramento had been a successful team in the old WLAF or what-ever the ***& it was called. I thought he looked good in the CFL right away ( i was at the first ever American team in the CFL regular season game at Lansdowne and the Gold Miners almost beat the mostly sad sack Ottawa Rough Riders of those days)

And IMO - the great pure passing / pocket QBs of all time - guys like Marino or Manning - would do just fine to great in any football league - NFL, CFL, touch, lingerie football, etc. They might not be as suited for the CFL as mobile, scrambling QBs like Flutie or Dunigan, but the notion that a Marino would struggle in the CFL is laughable to me - guy had a great arm and was smart, and the CFL is a passing league. If an immobile under 6' guy like McManus could do well in the CFL with a good arm, a 6-5 Marino with a better arm would have no problem. Rypien was not even close to Marino's class though, but he had a strong arm and was similarly big and immobile. - i think he could have done fine in a good passing CFL offence.


OV, we are in 100% agreement here.

[AngeloV]

I can appreciate that Marino had a quick release, he also had an excellent offensive line in Miami, which was also very good when Dave Woodley was the starter in 1981-1982 just prior to Marino being drafted. Marino wasn't a scrambler, but could be elusive in the pocket. Put him behind a rock solid offensive line and I'd be fascinated to see what Marino could do in the CFL.

What are people's opinions about Joe Montana playing in the CFL? He definitely had the smarts, but I'm not sure how well suited his arm strength would have been for the league. Enough people complain about Ray and Harris' tendency to check down. Well, Montana loved to use Roger Craig and Tom Rathman out of the backfield.

Montana could have played in any league.

[jerrym]

As I recall the Montana stuff gained no traction but the Rypien stuff got a lot of attention.


That's the way I remember it to. As to their level of success in the CFL, I think Montana's combination of street smart football and passing skills would have made him lights out. However, I have my doubts about Rypien having a high level of success.

[AngeloV]

That's the way I remember it to. As to their level of success in the CFL, I think Montana's combination of street smart football and passing skills would have made him lights out. However, I have my doubts about Rypien having a high level of success.

Can't disagree there.

[Stevoman]

Yeah, I remember Rypien being interviewed and CBC all thought he was coming the CFL for sure because Rypien said "I'm going to lose 20lbs out there!" Hadn't known about the Montana rumour though, that was a fun read.

[argos1873]

While I have no doubt about Montana's greatness, and the possibilities of his abilities in the CFL, I will still put it in the situation of we'll never know. To say he would have ripped the league apart may be true, but stranger things have happened. I think his replacement in San Fran would have been a better fit. But who knows, a whole bunch of stuff has to come together for some players to have success in the CFL, and not all of it is pure talent. Maybe having to spend time in crappy dressing rooms is enough for a star player to not really care enough to put up his best effort. It wouldn't be the first time.

[ArgoRavi]

I don't recall much being said about Montana coming to the Argos in the early 1990s but I do remember seeing some reports in the late 1970s that suggested that he would be heading to Canada as he wasn't considered a great NFL prospect at that time.

[argolio]

I don't recall much being said about Montana coming to the Argos in the early 1990s.I don't remember any talk at all.

[Ron]

Point well taken, but i also think that Dan Marino would have been a terrible CFL QB

If they built an offense to his style he would have been great. If they put him in a run and shoot hie would have failed miserably. (Just like Tracy Ham failed miserably in Toronto)

You don't need a runner to QB in the CFL. There have been elite QB's who were cement foots like Kerwin Bell ... and that fellow Danny mac also carved out himself a serviceable career.

[Will]

If they built an offense to his style he would have been great. If they put him in a run and shoot hie would have failed miserably. (Just like Tracy Ham failed miserably in Toronto)

You don't need a runner to QB in the CFL. There have been elite QB's who were cement foots like Kerwin Bell ... and that fellow Danny mac also carved out himself a serviceable career.

Ricky Ray has never been the world's greatest mobile QB either.

[AngeloV]

If they built an offense to his style he would have been great. If they put him in a run and shoot hie would have failed miserably. (Just like Tracy Ham failed miserably in Toronto)

You don't need a runner to QB in the CFL. There have been elite QB's who were cement foots like Kerwin Bell ... and that fellow Danny mac also carved out himself a serviceable career.

I think Danny Mac is a great comparison. They both had really quick releases.

[timlb01]

If they built an offense to his style he would have been great. If they put him in a run and shoot hie would have failed miserably. (Just like Tracy Ham failed miserably in Toronto)

You don't need a runner to QB in the CFL. There have been elite QB's who were cement foots like Kerwin Bell ... and that fellow Danny mac also carved out himself a serviceable career.

Kerwin Bell was a real stiff. He was far from elite. We will never know how those top NFLers would have done. There is a great deal of evidence that so called greats from down south do not automatically mean they are great in the CFL. If I am building a team my first choice is a mobile quarterback. I think it can make up for many short coming such as a weaker offensive line, a limited running game etc. I think the bigger question is do you think Marino, Montana etc would have been better than Flutie?

I don't know if I would bet against Flutie. His style was perfect for the CFL. Flute, Ham and Dunigan are some of my favourites. Look at what happened to Ham as someone mentioned earlier in the thread when they did not build the offence around him. He was terrible because of terrible coaching.

Do people think if some of the elite CFL QB's of the past went to the NFL and they designed a system that suited their style they could not have lite it up? Dunigan could have. Flute showed it in Buffalo on a weak team with a lot of NFL politics at play.

[AngeloV]

Kerwin Bell was a real stiff. He was far from elite.

Bell was far from a stiff. He was a very good pocket passer. He was excellent in 1998, but after taking over from 2 years of Flutie, I think Argos fans were spoiled and expected way too much. He threw for 4,991 yards that season.

[jerrym]

I still have nostalgia for the John Candy era and his efforts to promote the team. What a coup it would have been if he could have signed Montana. For a guy whose childhood dream was to play for the Argos but had it ended with a high school injury, he showed more passion for the Argos than some of the players who made the team. Even before he became Johnny Argo, he was also my favourite comedian because his humour never centred on ridiculing others but on showing the human weaknesses that we all share.

[argolio]

his humour never centred on ridiculing others but on showing the human weaknesses that we all share.Except when he played Johnny LaRue and made fun of everyone.

[ArgoRavi]

I don't remember any talk at all.

I only recall the Rypien talk myself.

[Gill The Thrill]

I only recall the Rypien talk myself.

I'm surprised you don't remember Ravi, although the Rypien talk was more serious since he did make a trip to Toronto. Montana was mentioned and I remember thinking that if the Argos signed Joe Montana as a QB, the dome would've been full for every game. Although hampered by injury after missing the 1991 season, thanks to the Leonard Marshall hit in the 1990-91 NFC Championship Game in January, he was the the most popular football player in the world and had been the most prominent QB for the previous 7-8 years. Rypien was nowhere near as popular and ended up being a QB who had a few good seasons winning one Super Bowl behind one of the greatest Offensive lines in the "Hogs"...ask Chuck Dickerson (Former Bills Defensive Coordinator who got fired after that SB loss)he'd remember...lol

The thought of Montana not being good in the CFL is laughable...and who said he didn't have an arm. The poster who wrote that should go watch that last drive from Super Bowl XXII. Notice all those fluttering passes between defenders while using the entire width of the field while stretching out the defense. (Are you kidding) He could zip the ball with precision and control his power on his passes with timing patterns easily. He would have had a field day passing in the wider CFL field. If Dan Marino could be considered smart, then Montana was a genius who could read a defense in split seconds, it's why he was so great. Guys may have scrambled better, and may have had arms that were comparable, but they were not usually the brightest QB on the field when they were facing Montana. The difference between Montana and Flutie is that Montana would have won the MOP in his first year in the league while Flutie won in his 2nd, and I loved watching Flutie play in any league...NCAA, USFL, NFL and CFL. It took Flutie the first year to get used to the Canadian game, although he was already starting to show signs of lighting it up before getting injured in his initial CFL season in 1990. Montana would have taken at most 2 or 3 games to start ripping it up, maybe 1 half.

He should of come up to the CFL, it would've been funner for him than trying to propp up an avg Kansas City Chiefs team to end his career. He still won a few big playoff games there, games they would've lost without him.

[gilthethrill]

Bell was far from a stiff. He was a very good pocket passer. He was excellent in 1998, but after taking over from 2 years of Flutie, I think Argos fans were spoiled and expected way too much. He threw for 4,991 yards that season.

I thought Bell was an above average qb, it was him at the helm in 98 that helped Mookie have that record breaking season too. Would love to know what he said to Pinball on the sideline in Hamilton (late 2001 IIRC) where Clemons had to be restrained by several players..Paul Woods or any one else who recalls that please jump in.

[jerrym]

Except when he played Johnny LaRue and made fun of everyone.

Even Johnny Larue involved a sendup of the braggadocio, who doesn't realize that he is making himself look ridiculous in many people's eyes while succeeding in winning others over (think Donald Trump). Even in playing the wealthy owner hyping his team like Johnny Larue, John Candy's heart always came through.


Levy, who co-starred on the fantastic sketch comedy series SCTV (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_City_Television) with Candy, said he and others from the show ribbed Candy after he, Gretzky and McNall bought the team for his growing similarity to a character he played, larger-than-life playboy Johnny LaRue (http://www.sctvguide.ca/programs/a_larueads.htm)."We told him, 'John, you're actually turning into Johnny LaRue, you own a football team," Levy said.




http://sports.yahoo.com/cfl/blog/cfl_experts/post/tsn-features-john-candys-impact-on-argos-cfl?urn=cfl,wp2271

[argos1873]

Even Johnny Larue involved a sendup of the braggadocio, who doesn't realize that he is making himself look ridiculous in many people's eyes while succeeding in winning others over (think Donald Trump). Even in playing the wealthy owner hyping his team like Johnny Larue, John Candy's heart always came through.



http://sports.yahoo.com/cfl/blog/cfl_experts/post/tsn-features-john-candys-impact-on-argos-cfl?urn=cfl,wp2271

Exactly, the beauty of the Johnny Larue character was that it was Johnny Larue who was the real joke of a person, even when he was putting down others. An insecure blowhard womanizer alcoholic, who would randomly proclaim "And I'm not gay!". Candy pulled it off to perfection.

[argos1873]

I'm surprised you don't remember Ravi, although the Rypien talk was more serious since he did make a trip to Toronto. Montana was mentioned and I remember thinking that if the Argos signed Joe Montana as a QB, the dome would've been full for every game. Although hampered by injury after missing the 1991 season, thanks to the Leonard Marshall hit in the 1990-91 NFC Championship Game in January, he was the the most popular football player in the world and had been the most prominent QB for the previous 7-8 years. Rypien was nowhere near as popular and ended up being a QB who had a few good seasons winning one Super Bowl behind one of the greatest Offensive lines in the "Hogs"...ask Chuck Dickerson (Former Bills Defensive Coordinator who got fired after that SB loss)he'd remember...lol

The thought of Montana not being good in the CFL is laughable...and who said he didn't have an arm. The poster who wrote that should go watch that last drive from Super Bowl XXII. Notice all those fluttering passes between defenders while using the entire width of the field while stretching out the defense. (Are you kidding) He could zip the ball with precision and control his power on his passes with timing patterns easily. He would have had a field day passing in the wider CFL field. If Dan Marino could be considered smart, then Montana was a genius who could read a defense in split seconds, it's why he was so great. Guys may have scrambled better, and may have had arms that were comparable, but they were not usually the brightest QB on the field when they were facing Montana. The difference between Montana and Flutie is that Montana would have won the MOP in his first year in the league while Flutie won in his 2nd, and I loved watching Flutie play in any league...NCAA, USFL, NFL and CFL. It took Flutie the first year to get used to the Canadian game, although he was already starting to show signs of lighting it up before getting injured in his initial CFL season in 1990. Montana would have taken at most 2 or 3 games to start ripping it up, maybe 1 half.

He should of come up to the CFL, it would've been funner for him than trying to propp up an avg Kansas City Chiefs team to end his career. He still won a few big playoff games there, games they would've lost without him.

There is also an intangible difference between say Flutie and Montana. Flutie was out of NFL options when he came to Canada, Montana wouldn't have been. So what does that mean? Flutie CHOSE Canada, because he still wanted to prove himself. So he took the paycut, he took the crappy dressing rooms, and some of the "bush league" attributes of the CFL. He chose it to continue his career. If Montana did it just for the money, you might not have seen the same fire in him that you saw in Flutie. Seriously, why would he care, the same way Flutie did? Sure Montana was an amazing talent, but even the supremely talented need motivation to utilize their talents. Sure maybe Joe was just the epitome of a pro that it didn't matter where he played he would play up to his god given talents no matter what. Or maybe he wouldn't care. We've seen it before a few times. Thus, we never know.