If Collaros hits free agency in 2017.....................

[R.J]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">.<a href="https://twitter.com/JDunk12">@JDunk12</a> tells <a href="https://twitter.com/Sportsnet960">@sportsnet960</a> if <a href="https://twitter.com/ZCollaros7">@ZCollaros7</a> makes it to free agency in 2017, <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Argos?src=hash">#Argos</a> would make a very hard run at him. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFL?src=hash">#CFL</a></p>&mdash; CFL News (@CFL_News) <a href="https://twitter.com/CFL_News/status/703715265171886080">February 27, 2016</a></blockquote>
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[Argo57]

I don't see Hamilton letting Collaros get to free agency in 2017.

[OV Argo]

Players will often show loyalty to the team that gave them a chance to be a starter / or become a star; but then again - money talk$ ... though not like CFL teams can offer a big star millions more to sign a huge contract. Is Collaros going to leave the Hammer to come back to the Argos - who he left in the first place - because they might offer 20 or 30 K more than the Ticats would pay ?

[ArgoGabe22]

ZC tweeted he loves Hamilton this past week or something similar. So if he signs with Toronto, he can still hang out on King Street.

IMO the only way Zach walks if he and his agent think he's worth so much more (highest paid QB) than Hamilton can afford and he tests the market. Hamilton shouldn't have much cap space left with the signing of Laurent. They will need to make room for his salary after this season so it'll be interesting to see what moves they make. I'm skeptical they'll re-sign ZC during the season as he may want another shot at the NFL.

[KCargosfan]

ZC tweeted he loves Hamilton this past week or something similar. So if he signs with Toronto, he can still hang out on King Street.

IMO the only way Zach walks if he and his agent think he's worth so much more (highest paid QB) than Hamilton can afford and he tests the market. Hamilton shouldn't have much cap space left with the signing of Laurent. They will need to make room for his salary after this season so it'll be interesting to see what moves they make. I'm skeptical they'll re-sign ZC during the season as he may want another shot at the NFL.

We talked about this previously in another thread, but I don't see the NFL being an option for Collaros. By that time, he would be 29 prior to the NFL season of 2017.

[Rich]

Players will often show loyalty to the team that gave them a chance to be a starter / or become a star; but then again - money talk$ ... though not like CFL teams can offer a big star millions more to sign a huge contract. Is Collaros going to leave the Hammer to come back to the Argos - who he left in the first place - because they might offer 20 or 30 K more than the Ticats would pay ?

Sometimes it's about more than money. For example let's say Collaros wants a future in sports broadcasting. You can be sure that working for a Bell Media-owned team would provide him with huge opportunities for career development that he wouldn't have in Hamilton.

But will we really need him? I got a feeling that either Fajardo or Kilgore is gonna break out this year, in which case Collaros can go blow.

[Double Dare]

First Collaros has to heal. You never know where his career will end up after injuries ... maybe the sideline.

[paulwoods13]

This won't be popular with some forum members, but has anyone considered the possibility Ricky Ray might continue to play at a high level for three or four more years, a la Calvillo? I personally think that is possible if not probable.

[Will]

This won't be popular with some forum members, but has anyone considered the possibility Ricky Ray might continue to play at a high level for three or four more years, a la Calvillo? I personally think that is possible if not probable.

It's possible--people had written Calvillo off in 2007, and then Trestman arrived and Calvillo played at a high level from 2008 to 2012.

[doubleblue]

This won't be popular with some forum members, but has anyone considered the possibility Ricky Ray might continue to play at a high level for three or four more years, a la Calvillo? I personally think that is possible if not probable.

Could well be, if they give him protection. But if they keep running that five Olinemen and a pony back protection offense he is going to be spending a lot of time on the IR. IMO

[Will]

Could well be, if they give him protection. But if they keep running that five Olinemen and a pony back protection offense he is going to be spending a lot of time on the IR. IMO

Well adding Josh Bourke will help at LT, however I'm still concerned about that right side of the line. Van Zeyl struggled much of last year and I don't know if that was due to age or injuries.

[Argo57]

This won't be popular with some forum members, but has anyone considered the possibility Ricky Ray might continue to play at a high level for three or four more years, a la Calvillo? I personally think that is possible if not probable.

Anything is possible Paul but banking on that happening at this point would be foolish IMO.
O-Line must be greatly improved to have any chance of your scenario playing out.

[R.J]

One thing to keep in mind about the current football operational regime in Hamilton is Tillman and Austin are not known for keeping highly priced QB's, although I highly doubt we see another Ricky Ray or Kerry Joseph type of deal. At this point I really don't see Collaros going anywhere, but I think a lot will depend on if he can stay healthy this season.

[ArgoGabe22]

This won't be popular with some forum members, but has anyone considered the possibility Ricky Ray might continue to play at a high level for three or four more years, a la Calvillo? I personally think that is possible if not probable.

Thing with Ray is, is that he's pretty hard to read. I don't know what Ray is thinking, seems like he didn't consider retirement yet but you never know what's going on in his head. Calvillo seemed to be more outspoken for his desire to play as long as he had, as did Allen and Burris. I just don't know if Ray sees himself playing 3-4 more years. Ricky Ray is a mystery.

[paulwoods13]

O-Line must be greatly improved to have any chance of your scenario playing out.

Very likely true.

[Mookie Fan]

Anything is possible Paul but banking on that happening at this point would be foolish IMO.
O-Line must be greatly improved to have any chance of your scenario playing out.

Agreed. I also think an improved ground game would help take a lot of the pressure off Ricky Ray, and help him stay healthy. I don't think Milanovich really appreciates this, based on his play calling over the past few years. Obviously the running game is directly related to our O-Line play as well.

[ArgoRavi]

Calvillo played into his 40s under the same offence that Ray is operating under.

[Mookie Fan]

Calvillo played into his 40s under the same offence that Ray is operating under.

That's true. That said, Calvillo also had a great offensive line for his entire career, a good (& at times great) running game during his career and had a very quick release. He also seemed to have few serious injuries. Ricky Ray has already had several serious injuries and he doesn't have Calvillo's arm. Calvillo basically threw darts down the field, even though his deep ball wasn't the best. Ricky Ray did have a quick release and threw an accurate deep ball until 2014, but now his release is pretty average, and he can't throw deep anymore. We'll see if he can get those two aspects of his game back. He hangs on to the ball longer now, and that contributes to the fact that he takes more hits than he used to. Obviously the O-line play during pass protection and a lack of a running game also contribute to this.

Personally I think Anthony Calvillo is the exception, not the rule. Even if Ray could play as long as Calvillo, he may not be playing at a level that enables the Argos to win very many games. Winning and playing at a reasonably high level is ultimately what it's all about, not just whether Ray can stay healthy.

[Double Dare]

Personally I think Anthony Calvillo is the exception, not the rule.
Absolutely true! It will be decades before another QB does what he did, if ever.

[1argoholic]

Cody Fajardo will be our next CFL star qb. The next Doug Flutie. Zack is dead to me.

[Double Dare]

Zack is dead to me. Make a T-shirt.

[argotom]

This won't be popular with some forum members, but has anyone considered the possibility Ricky Ray might continue to play at a high level for three or four more years, a la Calvillo? I personally think that is possible if not probable.


Hope he surprises us, but I do not see this at all.
Especially with the two serious injuries the past two seasons including the shoulder.

[ArgoRavi]

Hope he surprises us, but I do not see this at all.
Especially with the two serious injuries the past two seasons including the shoulder.

That is the same number of serious injuries that Collaros has had over the past two seasons, interestingly enough.

[ArgoZ]

That is the same number of serious injuries that Collaros has had over the past two seasons, interestingly enough.

Collaros suffered a serious concussion, which he missed numerous games in 2014 and also had season ending knee surgery last year. Realistically, one more unlucky hit to the head or knee could end his career.

[paulwoods13]

Collaros is clearly injury prone.

[Argo57]

Collaros suffered a serious concussion, which he missed numerous games in 2014 and also had season ending knee surgery last year. Realistically, one more unlucky hit to the head or knee could end his career.

Same could be said for many other CFL QB's (Durant, Ray, Reilly, Lulay, Collaros, Willy, Nichols) etc, football is a tough business.

[ArgoZ]

Same could be said for many other CFL QB's (Durant, Ray, Reilly, Lulay, Collaros, Willy, Nichols) etc, football is a tough business.

It sure is. True, at any given moment a QB can go down for the worse. What is concerning about Collaros, is that at age 27, both his injuries (concussion and ACL), have very high recurrence rates and are the most common career ending injuries. I believe one study found that athletes were nearly twice as likely to suffer a serious knee, ankle or lower limb injury, up to a year after a concussion.

[Rich]

It sure is. True, at any given moment a QB can go down for the worse. What is concerning about Collaros, is that at age 27, both his injuries (concussion and ACL), have very high recurrence rates and are the most common career ending injuries. I believe one study found that athletes were nearly twice as likely to suffer a serious knee, ankle or lower limb injury, up to a year after a concussion.

Well if Collaros has another bad season he'll be available at a bargain price to back up Cody Fajardo in 2017.

[OV Argo]

Well if Collaros has another bad season he'll be available at a bargain price to back up Cody Fajardo in 2017.


This guy Fajardo is sure a superstar in waiting; can\t wait to see him rip up the CFL when he finally gets a chance to play.

[AngeloV]

This guy Fajardo is sure a superstar in waiting; can\t wait to see him rip up the CFL when he finally gets a chance to play.

Well, he's no Blake Sims, that's for sure.

[R.J]

Well if Collaros has another bad season he'll be available at a bargain price to back up Cody Fajardo in 2017.
Collaros hasn't had a bad season as of yet, unless of course you mean injuries = bad.
Am I missing something ? When did Fajardo become the second coming of Adonis....... I mean Trevor Harris ?

[Rich]

Collaros hasn't had a bad season as of yet, unless of course you mean injuries = bad.
Am I missing something ? When did Fajardo become the second coming of Adonis....... I mean Trevor Harris ?

Did I say Fajardo? I meant Kilgore. :-)


Point is, if Milanovich does anything well, it is developing young QB's quickly, and I fully expect that to continue this season.

[OV Argo]

Well, he's no Blake Sims, that's for sure.

Too bad there is basically ever zero enthusiasm for a young, college ball star Canadian QB who might be able to make an impact in the CFL. All sorts of fans would be pulling for a Kilgore or Fajardo type (and I hope they can become great Argo QBs too - or at least near as good as a couple of recent ones in Collaros & Harris) - citing their college ball resumes and QB attributes; yet most probably couldn't even name a top young Canadian QB? - either that or I guess they just write them off ? - you know, just like a *** would do. ;o)

[R.J]

Did I say Fajardo? I meant Kilgore. :-)


Point is, if Milanovich does anything well, it is developing young QB's quickly, and I fully expect that to continue this season.
While I don't know if either of them will pan out; I'm just hoping one of them does. Wouldn't mind seeing Baker Mayfield in double blue either.

[ArgoRavi]

This guy Fajardo is sure a superstar in waiting; can\t wait to see him rip up the CFL when he finally gets a chance to play.

LOL! I don't know anything about this Fajardo character either but am now expecting huge things.

[argolio]

Too bad there is basically ever zero enthusiasm for a young, college ball star Canadian QB who might be able to make an impact in the CFL. All sorts of fans would be pulling for a Kilgore or Fajardo type (and I hope they can become great Argo QBs too - or at least near as good as a couple of recent ones in Collaros & Harris) - citing their college ball resumes and QB attributes; yet most probably couldn't even name a top young Canadian QB? - either that or I guess they just write them off ? - you know, just like a *** would do. ;o)Didn't help that arguably the best Canadian QB prospect of the last decade decided to quit on the eve of training camp.

[RB957]

ZC tweeted he loves Hamilton this past week or something similar. So if he signs with Toronto, he can still hang out on King Street.

IMO the only way Zach walks if he and his agent think he's worth so much more (highest paid QB) than Hamilton can afford and he tests the market. Hamilton shouldn't have much cap space left with the signing of Laurent. They will need to make room for his salary after this season so it'll be interesting to see what moves they make. I'm skeptical they'll re-sign ZC during the season as he may want another shot at the NFL.

Funny thing... last season after one of the Argos home games, my son and I were walking back to Union Station, and who do we see walking down Front Street, but Zach Collaros and a buddy with a couple of female friends. So he may say he loves Hamilton, but he parties in Toronto!!

[OV Argo]

Didn't help that arguably the best Canadian QB prospect of the last decade decided to quit on the eve of training camp.


??? - who was this guy that had all sorts of CFL fans lauding his college ball skills and anticipating him getting to play in the CFL ?

[argolio]

??? - who was this guy that had all sorts of CFL fans lauding his college ball skills and anticipating him getting to play in the CFL ?I can only speak for me, but I liked his chances of making an impact at the pro level. Guess you didn't.

[OV Argo]

I can only speak for me, but I liked his chances of making an impact at the pro level. Guess you didn't.

Who ???

You referring to Quinlan maybe? - he "quit" the Als.

Have to agree he is one of the most talented CIS QBs in some time.

But as far as expectations for the CFL - the guy wasn't drafted AT ALL by any CFL team - and after winning a national title in putting up outstanding QB stats. Then he went to the Als TC (part of that CFL little achievers or whatever they call if for Canadian QBs?) where he reported he was "segregated" from the other QBs in camp - i.e. not competing for a spot like the other QBs in camp; then, the next season he thinks he is in their QB plans (Poop says so in the media) but they convieniently forget to invite him to their mini camp for young players at the start of the year ??? So, maybe he can read some writing on the wall there and he quits ?

Anyways, maybe you were blowing his horn as a very good CFL QB prospect - like some fans will do - some here hoping Kilgore or Fajardo become good Argo QBs and cite their college ball play and mention their name often. I don't recall hardly anybody doing so for Quinlan with the Als though, but maybe there was some of that. I could name one CFL discussion site where you'd probably get mocked or laughed-off the board in ridicule if you had repeatedly said that guy was an excellent CFL QB prospect that you anticipated seeing play in the CFL soon. ;o)

[1argoholic]

So I'm the first on the Cody Farjardo bandwagon but I won't be the last. haha. I trust Barker.

[Rich]

Well, he's no Blake Sims, that's for sure.

IMO neither Blake Sims nor Kyle Quinlan got a fair shot to show what they could do in the CFL. Both players have obvious CFL talent, but both are/were "projects". Both needed more than 2 or 3 practices to show what they could do. Both needed a season of hands-on nurturing in order to adapt their talents to the CFL, and neither got it.

I understand that it's a luxury to be able to develop a QB long-term like that, but some guys need it more than others. I'd be willing to bet that Trevor Harris didn't look like a CFL QB after his first 2 or 3 practices either.

[Rich]

So I'm the first on the Cody Farjardo bandwagon but I won't be the last. haha. I trust Barker.

I've got the college football cable package and i watch dozens of NCAA games every week in season. I followed Fajardo's career closely and hoped he would one day play up here. He is a gamer, a leader, and a great athlete. He's only the second NCAA QB to pass for over 9,000 yards and run for over 3,000. The difference between him and a guy like Sims is that Fajardo was a 4-year starter in college. He is much more experienced and more mature, and IMO capable of making the leap to the pros quickly, especially under the guidance of Milanovich.

[ArgoRavi]

Two CFL teams have now discarded Sims. I suspect that Trevor Harris, Zach Collaros, Logan Kilgore and Cody Fajardo all showed much more in their first two or three practices than Sims did. They probably found that Sims simply couldn't make all of the throws that you need to be able to make on a Canadian field.

[Rich]

Two CFL teams have now discarded Sims. I suspect that Trevor Harris, Zach Collaros, Logan Kilgore and Cody Fajardo all showed much more in their first two or three practices than Sims did. They probably found that Sims simply couldn't make all of the throws that you need to be able to make on a Canadian field.

I don't want to talk about Blake Sims, he's yesterday's news. But some people think they are being oh-so clever in bringing his name up time and again. But if you can watch this video (start around 2 minutes in) and still believe this nonsense that Sims "can't make the throws" then more power to ya.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wsc4h3ojES8

[gilthethrill]

Two CFL teams have now discarded Sims. I suspect that Trevor Harris, Zach Collaros, Logan Kilgore and Cody Fajardo all showed much more in their first two or three practices than Sims did. They probably found that Sims simply couldn't make all of the throws that you need to be able to make on a Canadian field.

I remember when ***** **** was cut by the Argos, Mike Hogan who is a regular at practises said that he (***** ****) did not look good.

[R.J]

I remember when ***** **** was cut by the Argos, Mike Hogan who is a regular at practises said that he (***** ****) did not look good.
Heard the same thing when he was cut from Saskatchewan; apparently he was terrible and not only struggled throwing the ball, but couldn't make quick reads.

[OV Argo]

Heard the same thing when he was cut from Saskatchewan; apparently he was terrible and not only struggled throwing the ball, but couldn't make quick reads.


Interesting; they had to bring back Sunseri last year and I thought he was mediocre, average or maybe pi$$-poor in his numerous CFL opportunities; I did like that young Smith guy at QB though - mobile and decent arm - be interesting to see if he stays in the mix behind Durant at QB or maybe gets a shot somewhere else.

Looking forward to seeing Kilgore and Fajardo get ex, game playing time this coming TC.

[AngeloV]

I don't want to talk about Blake Sims, he's yesterday's news. But some people think they are being oh-so clever in bringing his name up time and again. But if you can watch this video (start around 2 minutes in) and still believe this nonsense that Sims "can't make the throws" then more power to ya.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wsc4h3ojES8

A lot of QB's have been very good college QB's but not necessarily good pro prospects.

[OV Argo]

A lot of QB's have been very good college QB's but not necessarily good pro prospects.


Yes. And pretty sure a lot NFL experts thought that about Doug Flutie; that's why he ended up playing in the CFL - for what,9 seasons or so; then he "earned" another NFL shot.

I prefer to go with "guess we'll never know" about a star college ball player who never played in the pros - even if he gets cut by one or a few pro teams; same with star college players who never even got a pro try-out because they were written-off for whatever reason. Rather than calling the guy "not good enough" for the pros. OTOH - players who do get actual playing time in the pros and bomb or do little or look lost/useless. it's a bit easier to conclude they were one of those guys who was good in college but maybe didn\t have it for the pro level.

[Invader]

I don't see Hamilton letting Collaros get to free agency in 2017.
Yep, the Argos can forget about Collaros. That ship has sailed. If the Argos offered him $500k, the Ticats would pay him $550k. They couldn't afford to let him go, especially to a division rival, because Collaros is the best QB in the league.

[Scooter McCray]

I spoke with Jim Barker last summer at a practice and he told me Blake Sims work ethic was terrible. He thought he would come in and be a star. He would leave after practice and party while all the other QBS would study the playbook. JB said that Ricky Ray thought he was the least professional QB he had ever worked with.

[Scooter McCray]

I hope Collaros stays in Hamilton. This will keep the rivalry strong. Personally when he waved goodbye to the Argo bench last Labour Day I thought that was classless. The Argos are the team that gave him his opportunity. He was disrespectful to the coaches, GM, and former teammates that helped get him to where he is now.

[Argo57]

I spoke with Jim Barker last summer at a practice and he told me Blake Sims work ethic was terrible. He thought he would come in and be a star. He would leave after practice and party while all the other QBS would study the playbook. JB said that Ricky Ray thought he was the least professional QB he had ever worked with.

That would explain a lot.
Attitude and being a team first guy is a huge part of fitting in on a football team.

[KCargosfan]

I spoke with Jim Barker last summer at a practice and he told me Blake Sims work ethic was terrible. He thought he would come in and be a star. He would leave after practice and party while all the other QBS would study the playbook. JB said that Ricky Ray thought he was the least professional QB he had ever worked with.

Not much of a surprise coming from Alabama where he was treated like a deity. I've never been impressed with Alabama QBs the last 10 years. IMO they are average college quarterbacks who are made to look much better than they are because they have NFL/CFL talent at nearly every position on the offense around them.

[Argo57]

I hope Collaros stays in Hamilton. This will keep the rivalry strong. Personally when he waved goodbye to the Argo bench last Labour Day I thought that was classless. The Argos are the team that gave him his opportunity. He was disrespectful to the coaches, GM, and former teammates that helped get him to where he is now.

+1 on what happened on Labour Day, wouldn't mind seeing him back with the Argonauts.
Although I don't see it happening.

[Reggiemac]

I like our chances of keeping Ricky Ray healthy, getting Bourque was a big deal. And spelling him off with one of our young guns will help. And he will be a great guy to bring our young qbs along. They can learn at the foot of a master. And w may have a third young guy in the pipeline with the neg rights we got from the riders in Baker Maywood fro Oklahoma, looks like a cfl QB a few years out. So the key for the argoscwill be to Keep Ricky Ray healthy and they have already made moves to do that. I am also confident that our defence will be helping out a lot by e ensuring we are not playing from behind a lot. Ergo we can use an offence that wont be predictable.

[Reggiemac]

If you look at Codys youtube hiliteses he was all world against in conference games but had problems playing against UCLA which is a big time program vs Las Vegas. But it wasn't just him. His receivers didn't play well and his O line had issues but I agree, if Cody can progress he has shown Flutie like abilities , and offence sells tickets so if he progresses to starting we could fill BMO and might have to add more seats. He is exciting to watch for sure.

[argotom]

I hope Collaros stays in Hamilton. This will keep the rivalry strong. Personally when he waved goodbye to the Argo bench last Labour Day I thought that was classless. The Argos are the team that gave him his opportunity. He was disrespectful to the coaches, GM, and former teammates that helped get him to where he is now.


That's the first I heard of that, source please as they say!
I recall after he left about being very classy to the Argos for giving him the opportunity.
Collaros did not wave goodbye for a reason.
He wanted to play first string or given not only a fair chance but likely the low end of first string money.
The Argos made it clear with him and now as well with Harris how they are riding with RR.

[Argo57]

That's the first I heard of that, source please as they say!
I recall after he left about being very classy to the Argos for giving him the opportunity.
Collaros did not wave goodbye for a reason.
He wanted to play first string or given not only a fair chance but likely the low end of first string money.
The Argos made it clear with him and now as well with Harris how they are riding with RR.

The source being anyone who was at that game (myself included)!

[Scooter McCray]

That's the first I heard of that, source please as they say!
I recall after he left about being very classy to the Argos for giving him the opportunity.
Collaros did not wave goodbye for a reason.
He wanted to play first string or given not only a fair chance but likely the low end of first string money.
The Argos made it clear with him and now as well with Harris how they are riding with RR. If you are able to watch the Labour Day game last year Hamilton blew ou the Argos. The game was never in doubt. Late in the game after a Hamilton TD Collaros is seen on national TV making a wave goodbye gesture towards the Argo bench as he jogs back to the Hamilton bench. I thought it was unnecessary and unsportsmanlike especially as I stated he owes slot to the Argos and their coaching staff. His play on the field was good enough to show the Argos up.

[R.J]

That's the first I heard of that, source please as they say!
I recall after he left about being very classy to the Argos for giving him the opportunity.
Collaros did not wave goodbye for a reason.
He wanted to play first string or given not only a fair chance but likely the low end of first string money.
The Argos made it clear with him and now as well with Harris how they are riding with RR.
Clearly you missed the game. 2:15:50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DwfXrn1v80

It's also talked about in the gameday thread
http://www.argofans.com/showthread.php?3445-September-7-2015-Toronto-Argonauts-vs.-Hamilton-Tiger-Cats&p=67545&viewfull=1#post67545

[Argo57]

Clearly you missed the game. 2:15:50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DwfXrn1v80

It's also talked about in the gameday thread
http://www.argofans.com/showthread.php?3445-September-7-2015-Toronto-Argonauts-vs.-Hamilton-Tiger-Cats&p=67545&viewfull=1#post67545

Perhaps the worst thing was watching Austin's smug face on the sidelines (what an asshole). Watching some of that game again makes you realize how much of a leap the Argos will need to take in 2016 to be considered an elite team in the CFL (particularly on D).

[Scooter McCray]

Perhaps the worst thing was watching Austin's smug face on the sidelines (what an asshole). Watching some of that game again makes you realize how much of a leap the Argos will need to take in 2016 to be considered an elite team in the CFL (particularly on D).I will take Milanovich and Rays calm professional demeanor. IE act like you've been there before over Austin and Collaros. Ray is one grey cup win away from 4 which I believe is a record. You tell me who the Argos were supposed to keep 3 years ago.

[argolio]

The source being anyone who was at that game (myself included)!lol! Or watched it on TV.

Maybe Collaros was the person who told AT that the Argos have sold 15K season tickets.

[Ron]

Collaros is not waving at the Argos. He's gesturing with the "Yap, yap, yap" motion. Likely aimed at Argos who were chirping at him that game. (That Argo team did a lot of chirping last year)

Something that would be applauded here if an Argo QB did it to a Cats team in the same situation. ;)

[Neely2005]

Perhaps the worst thing was watching Austin's smug face on the sidelines (what an asshole). Watching some of that game again makes you realize how much of a leap the Argos will need to take in 2016 to be considered an elite team in the CFL (particularly on D).

Enter Rich Stubler.

[OV Argo]

Collaros is not waving at the Argos. He's gesturing with the "Yap, yap, yap" motion. Likely aimed at Argos who were chirping at him that game. (That Argo team did a lot of chirping last year)

Something that would be applauded here if an Argo QB did it to a Cats team in the same situation. ;)

Argo defensive players would be better advised to deliver a fore-arm shot to the yap of Collaros, instead of chirping at him - looking forward to see that happen this coming season; along with somebody from the Argos "accidentally" running out of control into the Ticats bench area and running over that pot-bellied little wimp Kenty, and then accidentally as well cleating him in his smug little yap as he tries to get up. Be worth the double objectionable penalties and fines that might go with it; plus help set a tone.

:biteme:

[Neely2005]

Collaros is not waving at the Argos. He's gesturing with the "Yap, yap, yap" motion. Likely aimed at Argos who were chirping at him that game. (That Argo team did a lot of chirping last year)

Something that would be applauded here if an Argo QB did it to a Cats team in the same situation. ;)

I don't think that most of us would be very happy if one of our players behaved that way.

[Double Dare]

I don't think that most of us would be very happy if one of our players behaved that way. They have/will ... enter "The Big Three". Yap, yap, yap. They are going to have to keep their Big egos in check this season and just do their job/s.

[Argo57]

Argo defensive players would be better advised to deliver a fore-arm shot to the yap of Collaros, instead of chirping at him - looking forward to see that happen this coming season; along with somebody from the Argos "accidentally" running out of control into the Ticats bench area and running over that pot-bellied little wimp Kenty, and then accidentally as well cleating him in his smug little yap as he tries to get up. Be worth the double objectionable penalties and fines that might go with it; plus help set a tone.

:biteme:

Maybe Stala will give Austin the "Glasgow Kiss" then kick him in the twins!!
Love the rest of your suggestions as well OV.

[Argo57]

Enter Rich Stubler.

Agreed, Creehan was in way over his head last year.

[Will]

Argo defensive players would be better advised to deliver a fore-arm shot to the yap of Collaros, instead of chirping at him - looking forward to see that happen this coming season; along with somebody from the Argos "accidentally" running out of control into the Ticats bench area and running over that pot-bellied little wimp Kenty, and then accidentally as well cleating him in his smug little yap as he tries to get up. Be worth the double objectionable penalties and fines that might go with it; plus help set a tone.

:biteme:

I'll direct your attention to the Forum Rules (http://www.argofans.com/showthread.php?3657-Forum-Rules) specifically #2 which states:



2. Player attacks are not tolerated. This includes players, coaches, and other people involved with the team. Criticism is acceptable, insults are not. You don't have to like a certain player, but you do have to show respect. Wishing or suggesting violence or injury to any player or coach will not be tolerated.

[OV Argo]

I'll direct your attention to the Forum Rules (http://www.argofans.com/showthread.php?3657-Forum-Rules) specifically #2 which states:

OK - I get those rules; it's not like I was suggesting hiring a hit-man to take out Kenty, or advocating one of us waiting in the Ticat parking lot after a game and trying to run down somebody on their team.

A QB getting smacked hard by a defender is still possible in football - though the silly, over-board can't touch the QB rules now might result in penalties for what was once just hard-hitting tough football (and I'm not talking about leading with a helmet to the head or obvious intent to injure stuff).

As far as Kenty getting a taste of his own medicine - that would be delicious IMO, and again, I'm not saying try to injure him - just a little mocking that the smug little guy might deserve.

[R.J]

I'd rather the Argonauts not take cheap shots at other teams. Staying classy and not taking stupid penalties is what I'd like to see from the Argonauts and winning games is the best way to get "revenge" on an opponent.

[ArgoGabe22]

OK - I get those rules; it's not like I was suggesting hiring a hit-man to take out Kenty, or advocating one of us waiting in the Ticat parking lot after a game and trying to run down somebody on their team.

A QB getting smacked hard by a defender is still possible in football - though the silly, over-board can't touch the QB rules now might result in penalties for what was once just hard-hitting tough football (and I'm not talking about leading with a helmet to the head or obvious intent to injure stuff).

As far as Kenty getting a taste of his own medicine - that would be delicious IMO, and again, I'm not saying try to injure him - just a little mocking that the smug little guy might deserve.


Best thing the Argos can do is just smoke (scoring wise) them in the season opener and watch Kenty explode on the sidelines. Then watch the Cats turn on one another and their frustration leads to stupid penalties.

[Argo57]

I'd rather the Argonauts not take cheap shots at other teams. Staying classy and not taking stupid penalties is what I'd like to see from the Argonauts and winning games is the best way to get "revenge" on an opponent.

Doesn't have to be a cheap shot, hard legal hits accomplish the same thing.
Football is a game of intimidation and getting into the opponents head.

[Neely2005]

I'd rather the Argonauts not take cheap shots at other teams. Staying classy and not taking stupid penalties is what I'd like to see from the Argonauts and winning games is the best way to get "revenge" on an opponent.

Agreed, the Argonauts have taken to many penalties for years now. It needs to change.

[argotom]

If you are able to watch the Labour Day game last year Hamilton blew ou the Argos. The game was never in doubt. Late in the game after a Hamilton TD Collaros is seen on national TV making a wave goodbye gesture towards the Argo bench as he jogs back to the Hamilton bench. I thought it was unnecessary and unsportsmanlike especially as I stated he owes slot to the Argos and their coaching staff. His play on the field was good enough to show the Argos up.


I saw the game and this so called incident.
I didn't take it the way you are, it was all part of the game competing on the filed and on the sidelines.
No big deal.
I have seen enough interviews and read stories and to me Zach before and after the Argos has remained classy.

[R.J]

I saw the game and this so called incident.
I didn't take it the way you are, it was all part of the game competing on the filed and on the sidelines.
No big deal.
I have seen enough interviews and read stories and to me Zach before and after the Argos has remained classy.
While I also didn't see the issue with Zach waving goodbye; I recall you questioning it and asking for proof - which was provided.

[argotom]

While I also didn't see the issue with Zach waving goodbye; I recall you questioning it and asking for proof - which was provided.


Maybe proof for you but not for me.

[ArgoZ]

Maybe proof for you but not for me.

I hear that damn Disney song "Let it go!" for some reason.

[R.J]

Maybe proof for you but not for me.
Huh... ?
This is what you wrote.

That's the first I heard of that, source please as they say!
I recall after he left about being very classy to the Argos for giving him the opportunity.
Collaros did not wave goodbye for a reason.
He wanted to play first string or given not only a fair chance but likely the low end of first string money.
The Argos made it clear with him and now as well with Harris how they are riding with RR.
Then the proof was provided that he did wave goodbye to the Argonauts bench. Not to mention all the posters that have confirmed it.

Clearly you missed the game. 2:15:50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DwfXrn1v80

It's also talked about in the gameday thread
http://www.argofans.com/showthread.php?3445-September-7-2015-Toronto-Argonauts-vs.-Hamilton-Tiger-Cats&p=67545&viewfull=1#post67545
You asked for proof of the waving incident. I really don't understand how you're not following.

[AngeloV]

Huh... ?
This is what you wrote.

Then the proof was provided that he did wave goodbye to the Argonauts bench. Not to mention all the posters that have confirmed it.

You asked for proof of the waving incident. I really don't understand how you're not following.

I know that I should be the last person giving this advice...but just let it go. Chalk it up to logic similar to Chrissy Snow in Three's Company.

[argotom]

Huh... ?
This is what you wrote.

Then the proof was provided that he did wave goodbye to the Argonauts bench. Not to mention all the posters that have confirmed it.

You asked for proof of the waving incident. I really don't understand how you're not following.


I am not starting this, but I have to respond.
Yes I recall that so called incident.
Like I said it's no proof of anything, a game within a game as they say a heat of the moment.
How you can take that and make a giant leap that Collaros all of a sudden is dissing the entire Argo organization is beyond me.
As for Mr. Roper on the other posting, I have no need to comment as he is always "right"?

[Scooter McCray]

I am not starting this, but I have to respond.
Yes I recall that so called incident.
Like I said it's no proof of anything, a game within a game as they say a heat of the moment.
How you can take that and make a giant leap that Collaros all of a sudden is dissing the entire Argo organization is beyond me.
As for Mr. Roper on the other posting, I have no need to comment as he is always "right"?

I stated how I felt about watching someone in his position doing what he did. IMO it was disrespectful. I never have seen class players like Clemons, Ray do those types of things and Ray has been in the Alberta and Golden Horseshoe rivalries. You can have your opinion that it was just heat of the game. That is okay too. In my opinion he was dissing an organization that gave him his professional opportunity. Do I think he's a good player - absolutely. He is young and I chalk it up to emotions getting the better of him. I loved watching him play as an Argo, he is a dynamic exciting player. He makes Hamilton tick. But I am critical of that momentary lapse of judgment. That's all. Would I be upset if he ever QB'd in Toronto again. Probably not.

[AngeloV]

I don't have a problem with what ZC did. Unbelievably, I actually do agree with AT, that is was an spur of the moment, emotional reaction. And I have no problem with show boating. I know some on here hate when the Argos receivers spin the ball after a first down, but I have no issue with that either.

[gilthethrill]

I don't have a problem with what ZC did. Unbelievably, I actually do agree with AT, that is was an spur of the moment, emotional reaction. And I have no problem with show boating. I know some on here hate when the Argos receivers spin the ball after a first down, but I have no issue with that either.

That loud thud I just heard was Argotom falling off of his chair.

[paulwoods13]

I don't have a problem with what ZC did. Unbelievably, I actually do agree with AT, that is was an spur of the moment, emotional reaction. And I have no problem with show boating. I know some on here hate when the Argos receivers spin the ball after a first down, but I have no issue with that either.

Not to get too far off topic, but would you have a problem if they spiked the ball after a first down? Because to me those actions are about the same. I'm fairly sure spiking is allowed only after a TD (and maybe a two-point convert?). I don't like spinning and gesticulating for something as routine as a first down (or in some cases just for a non-first-down catch, which has happened on occasion). But I'm old school, I guess.

[R.J]

I don't really have an issue with show boating, but I do think there are better times for it - eg a big first down or touchdown makes sense - the second 1st of a game not so much. Not a fan of taunting whatsoever; mainly because it usually bits you in the butt. One of the reasons I loved watching Whitaker play this past season, was because of his professionalism - He acted like he had been there before, but at times you could see he was amped up. Showboating can be fun to watch - anyone else recall some of Jeremaine copeland touchdown dances and choreographed set pieces with his teammates (eg, the bobsled, bicycle etc) ?

[Scooter McCray]

One of my favorites was when Chad Owens had his first big game back in 2010 against Montreal. After one TD he did a Hawaiian war canoe routine. Jim Barker chastised him afterwards and he never did anything like that again. I liked watching it, and it wasn't disrespecting Montreal. He was just excited to be having a breakout game at home and was celebrating it. He even said afterwards that his emotions got the better of him.

[AngeloV]

Not to get too far off topic, but would you have a problem if they spiked the ball after a first down? Because to me those actions are about the same. I'm fairly sure spiking is allowed only after a TD (and maybe a two-point convert?). I don't like spinning and gesticulating for something as routine as a first down (or in some cases just for a non-first-down catch, which has happened on occasion). But I'm old school, I guess.

I guess you are old school, Paul. LOL.

The spinning vs spiking is an interesting argument. The reason spiking is only allowed after a TD, is because during play, you have no idea where a spiked ball may end up, and it becomes a delay of game issue. Spinning the ball leaves the ball in the same general area as dropping it would.

What I don't like is sticking your finger in a player's face or getting grill to grill to taunt. Anything else, I have no issue with. I usually just laugh.

This is a general statement and not directed at you Paul, but I love when people give the "act like you've been there before" argument. So easy to say from the comfort of your couch. None of us REALLY know how we'd act if we were in the same position as these players.

[paulwoods13]

This is a general statement and not directed at you Paul, but I love when people give the "act like you've been there before" argument. So easy to say from the comfort of your couch. None of us REALLY know how we'd act if we were in the same position as these players.

That's true, but I can go by how I acted in organized touch football. I seldom gesticulated grandly if I made a big play -- and believe me, it was not as if I did it all that often.

[R.J]

What I don't like is sticking your finger in a player's face or getting grill to grill to taunt. Anything else, I have no issue with. I usually just laugh.

This is a general statement and not directed at you Paul, but I love when people give the "act like you've been there before" argument. So easy to say from the comfort of your couch. None of us REALLY know how we'd act if we were in the same position as these players.
Agree with this - especially the first part.

[argotom]

That loud thud I just heard was Argotom falling off of his chair.

Gil, I am going right now to buy a Lotto Max for Friday.
Are you or anyone else interested here in getting in a group so only some of us will win for sure the $60M+?

[AngeloV]

gil, i am going right now to buy a lotto max for friday.
Are you or anyone else interested here in getting in a group so only some of us will win for sure the $60m+?

lol!!

[Scooter McCray]

I guess you are old school, Paul. LOL.

The spinning vs spiking is an interesting argument. The reason spiking is only allowed after a TD, is because during play, you have no idea where a spiked ball may end up, and it becomes a delay of game issue. Spinning the ball leaves the ball in the same general area as dropping it would.

What I don't like is sticking your finger in a player's face or getting grill to grill to taunt. Anything else, I have no issue with. I usually just laugh.

This is a general statement and not directed at you Paul, but I love when people give the "act like you've been there before" argument. So easy to say from the comfort of your couch. None of us REALLY know how we'd act if we were in the same position as these players.The players I have enjoyed watch play growing up and today are the ones that just hand the ball to the ref . Jackson Holloway Clements Moon Clemons O'SHEA Flutie Gabriel Ray Durie. The list goes on.

[AngeloV]

The players I have enjoyed watch play growing up and today are the ones that just hand the ball to the ref . Jackson Holloway Clements Moon Clemons O'SHEA Flutie Gabriel Ray Durie. The list goes on.

That's fine. I liked all of those (we won't go into the Clements thing again), but I also have no issue with guys having fun.

Funny thing on your list though, O'Shea was a very borderline dirty player, but we still loved him. Gabriel was one of the biggest on field whiners of all time. We used to work for the same company, and I mentioned that to him on the phone one day, and we had a good laugh about it. He sure didn't deny it.