Thoughts about WWE. Who is your current favourite?

[ArgoRavi]

I used to be quite interested in the WWE (then called the "WWF") back in the 1980s when I was a teenager but, other than watching it briefly again at the turn of the century, have pretty much gone away from it until the last few weeks. I feel these days like I need something mindless to watch to take my mind off of work and what could be more mindless than the WWE?

I have noticed a few things while watching again recently:

There isn't much of an attempt being made to pretend that this is real anymore. When I look at my TV guide on TIVO, they actually list the main attraction for RAW that coming week such as Shane McMahon returning to confront his father or Undertaker returning to confront Mr. McMahon about his upcoming Wrestlemania match against Shane.

I know that we have all aged over the past 15 years or so but Shane really has btw.

I love how the camera closest to the action will move up and down with every punch or elbow smash so that you can't tell as easily that a connection is not being made. However, it seems more apparent than ever just how fake the whole thing is from the regular camera angles.

I have thought over the last 15 to 20 years that this is really no different than a soap opera. Hell, the currently storyline involving the McMahons could have been taken from the old TV show Dallas.

Who is your current WWE favourite? I would have to say that mine are Dean Ambrose and The New Day. Ambrose takes a licking, enjoys it and keeps on ticking. The New Day are just fun to watch. The new thing these days seems to be these three or four man tag teams. I am amused by the League of Nations and the Social Outcasts as well. Calisto, btw, should ditch his tag team partner and just wrestle individually as he never wins in tag team matches. Finally, I am not a Brock Lesnar fan but do enjoy listening to his advocate, Paul Heyman, speak his words of wisdom.

Whatever happened to Linda McMahon?

[Double Dare]

None.

[1argoholic]

Bad steroid headed acting. HATE THIS CRAP!

[AngeloV]

Well Ravi, as you know, I have a very soft spot for the business. The New Day is by far the most entertaining thing going today.

To me, and I don't want to come across as an old fart here, wrestling is not nearly as entertaining as it used to be. When the wrestlers used to do their own promos, prior to having a group of writers telling them what to say, it was so much more enjoyable. Roddy Piper would have been a nobody today, because he was way more creative and entertainingly believable than any third rate Hollywood wannabe writer could ever be. He actually was stabbed on more than one occasion in his heel career. That's not cool, but it sure says a lot about how good he was at what he did.

As far as the in ring action, it has become a "can you top this move?" kind of a thing, and really, there is no creativity there. It looks stupidly fake as too often wrestlers are waiting to catch the other guy while he does his move. Wrestlers used to be able to keep an audience by the story they told in the ring. They worked together to bring the crowd up, and then back down. It was quite an art form, and much safer for the performers.

Some of the best matches today are by the woman, and IMO it's because they tell more of an old school wrestling story in their matches, and they have a better flow.

Just my opinion as someone that has tried to do this and has spoken to quite a few of the stars of yesteryear.

[rdavies]

I also have a soft spot for the biz watching it as a child and then later my first job (pardon the expression) in TV was working on a wrestling broadcast. I agree with Angelo that the business has changed and I agree it's not the same. Having lines delivered to them by writers makes them actors and not very skilled ones at that. They are phenomenal athletes as compared to my day but most have zero charisma. That's why a Dusty Rhodes could succeed and why today many don't. Today they all look the same and unless one has much more charisma than another nobody stands out.

I'm not a regular viewer but I keep my ear to the ground. I was absolutely amazed when I watched a show (after not watching for a few years) and seeing the wrestlers off the gas. Shocking, the effect of steroids.

It's not the wrestlers fault that they are not as entertaining as yesteryear, they have no place to learn their craft. In the old territory days you could try things out, establish a character for years before getting a big break.

BTW Ravi, Shane O Mac is no kid anymore, he's 46.

An interesting thing I heard the other day from Dave Meltzer, long time wrestling reporter: The average age of a WWE fan during the Steve Austin "Attitude" era was early 20s, the average age of a wrestling fan now is mid 40's. I was very surprised by that. And detractors say that crap about the CFL's "dying" fanbase.

[AngeloV]

I also have a soft spot for the biz watching it as a child and then later my first job (pardon the expression) in TV was working on a wrestling broadcast. I agree with Angelo that the business has changed and I agree it's not the same. Having lines delivered to them by writers makes them actors and not very skilled ones at that. They are phenomenal athletes as compared to my day but most have zero charisma. That's why a Dusty Rhodes could succeed and why today many don't. Today they all look the same and unless one has much more charisma than another nobody stands out.

I'm not a regular viewer but I keep my ear to the ground. I was absolutely amazed when I watched a show (after not watching for a few years) and seeing the wrestlers off the gas. Shocking, the effect of steroids.

It's not the wrestlers fault that they are not as entertaining as yesteryear, they have no place to learn their craft. In the old territory days you could try things out, establish a character for years before getting a big break.

BTW Ravi, Shane O Mac is no kid anymore, he's 46.

An interesting thing I heard the other day from Dave Meltzer, long time wrestling reporter: The average age of a WWE fan during the Steve Austin "Attitude" era was early 20s, the average age of a wrestling fan now is mid 40's. I was very surprised by that. And detractors say that crap about the CFL's "dying" fanbase.

What wrestling broadcast did you work for?

[rdavies]

Emile Dupre in the Maritimes.

Not the greatest broadcast in the world but a lotta fun for a kid's first venture into the world of TV. Notice Man Mountain Mike (Makhan Singh in Calgary) Bastion Booger/Norman the Lunatic, a very underrated wrestler. My ol' buddies Killer Karl Krupp RIP and Sweet Daddy Siki are in this program as well.

In my career in TV which only lasted 10 years (because I hated working in news and had to get out) that show was the most fun that I had.

Oh yeah, the show also had that iconic opening theme "Let Their Be Drums" which you would have heard Bubbles of the TPB play whenever he donned the mask of the Green Bastard. : )


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1JoDefQcm0

[rdavies]

Just thought of something. Whenever I hear a wrestling podcast or documentary all I ever hear about is Stu Hart and Stampede, you'd think it was the only promotion that existed in Canada. Growing up in the 70s the only show that I hadn't seen or heard of WAS Stampede. I saw All Star from Vancouver, Grand Prix from Montreal and of course International Wrestling/Grand Prix Wrestling from the Maritimes.

Most of the big names appeared in the Maritimes at one time or another.

I don't know how many of you know of this site but if you want to relive your wrestling childhood (pre 1990s) Kayfabe Memories (http://www.infinitecore.ca/superstar/index.php?a=cat) is a fantastic forum.

[AngeloV]

Emile Dupre in the Maritimes.

Not the greatest broadcast in the world but a lotta fun for a kid's first venture into the world of TV. Notice Man Mountain Mike (Makhan Singh in Calgary) Bastion Booger/Norman the Lunatic, a very underrated wrestler. My ol' buddies Killer Karl Krupp RIP and Sweet Daddy Siki are in this program as well.

In my career in TV which only lasted 10 years (because I hated working in news and had to get out) that show was the most fun that I had.

Oh yeah, the show also had that iconic opening theme "Let Their Be Drums" which you would have heard Bubbles of the TPB play whenever he donned the mask of the Green Bastard. : )


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1JoDefQcm0

Nice. Leo Burke, Rudy and Bobby Kay, the Beast, Steven Pettipas (Sheik Ali in Quebec mid 80's)..some really good workers.

His son Renee was a great worker, but for some reason WWE didn't give him the push he should have received.

[R.J]

Bret Hart was my favourite, but I stopped watching wrestling about 16-17 years ago.

[rdavies]

Rene got a decent push but I think he had a lot of substance abuse issues and maybe some heat with the boys, but he was a great talent.

[AngeloV]

Rene got a decent push but I think he had a lot of substance abuse issues and maybe some heat with the boys, but he was a great talent.

LOL...you just described 90% of the locker room.

[rdavies]

Bret Hart was my favourite, but I stopped watching wrestling about 16-17 years ago.My favourite and Bret Hart and Ron MacLean's favourite was the recently deceased Archie the Stomper Gouldie.

Check out this promo starting at 5:00, they don't make 'em like this anymore, no script writer here, strictly off the cuff. Ed Whalen played it perfect and shut up. Ironically in his gimmick as the Mongolian Stomper in the American south, he didn't talk, what a waste.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS6mMfTrOWU

[rdavies]

Nice. Leo Burke, Rudy and Bobby Kay, the Beast, Steven Pettipas (Sheik Ali in Quebec mid 80's)..some really good workers.It's funny that when we got into our teenage years and a little "wiser" to the world we thought it was a bunch of BS when the Beast would say that he just got back from New Zealand or Texas instead of what we thought was an extensive tour of Berwick NS. :)

But later on we find it was all true and that the Cormier brothers had some fairly good runs in other territories, Leo especially had many regional titles.

Petitpas should have done better, some bad luck, injuries, bad decisions (reluctance to travel) made his career less than it should have been.

[Will]

I've been an "off-and-on" wrestling fan for about 20 years now. I watched pretty extensively during the Attitude Era and since about 2002 have had what I'll call wrestling binges that range from a couple of weeks to a year where I'll follow the product. I haven't watched very much in the past five years though as I feel left behind by the "PG" era. I have the WWE Network though and will watch Wrestlemania and the other "Big 4" PPV's. I like the WWE Network because it gives me access to older cards, which I enjoy watching once in awhile.

[ArgoRavi]

Just thought of something. Whenever I hear a wrestling podcast or documentary all I ever hear about is Stu Hart and Stampede, you'd think it was the only promotion that existed in Canada. Growing up in the 70s the only show that I hadn't seen or heard of WAS Stampede. I saw All Star from Vancouver, Grand Prix from Montreal and of course International Wrestling/Grand Prix Wrestling from the Maritimes.

Most of the big names appeared in the Maritimes at one time or another.

I don't know how many of you know of this site but if you want to relive your wrestling childhood (pre 1990s) Kayfabe Memories (http://www.infinitecore.ca/superstar/index.php?a=cat) is a fantastic forum.

Does anyone remember The Superstars of Wrestling back in the 1970s with George Cannon, El Santo #1, El Santo #2, etc., Otto Von Heller, Edouard Carpentier, Mad Dog Vachon and many others? I remember Haystack Calhoun even making an appearance once. Milt (Crude, Rude and Ignorant) Avruskin was one of the commentators along with Cannon who would make the occasional appearance in the ring. That stuff is still ingrained in my brain from childhood.

[Will]

Just thought of something. Whenever I hear a wrestling podcast or documentary all I ever hear about is Stu Hart and Stampede, you'd think it was the only promotion that existed in Canada. Growing up in the 70s the only show that I hadn't seen or heard of WAS Stampede. I saw All Star from Vancouver, Grand Prix from Montreal and of course International Wrestling/Grand Prix Wrestling from the Maritimes.

Most of the big names appeared in the Maritimes at one time or another.

I don't know how many of you know of this site but if you want to relive your wrestling childhood (pre 1990s) Kayfabe Memories (http://www.infinitecore.ca/superstar/index.php?a=cat) is a fantastic forum.

Jack Tunney also had quite a big promotion in this part of Ontario. He, of course, leveraged that into being the (kayfabe) president of the WWF for many years. I think that the WWF has done it's best to bury Tunney's contribution though.

[AngeloV]

Does anyone remember The Superstars of Wrestling back in the 1970s with George Cannon, El Santo #1, El Santo #2, etc., Otto Von Heller, Edouard Carpentier, Mad Dog Vachon and many others? I remember Haystack Calhoun even making an appearance once. Milt (Crude, Rude and Ignorant) Avruskin was one of the commentators along with Cannon who would make the occasional appearance in the ring. That stuff is still ingrained in my brain from childhood.

Used to love that show.

Crude, Rude and Ignorant..Milt used to use that line for Sailor White.

Milt was a great wrestling announcer. When he called Montreal based International Wrestling, he had Cowboy Trey Travis as the colour commentator. Had the pleasure of getting to know him about 10 years ago, a very nice, yet scary man. Even in his 60's not someone you'd want to mess with. He had a boxing background and the biggest fists I have ever seen.

[Argo57]

Used to love that show.

Crude, Rude and Ignorant..Milt used to use that line for Sailor White.

Milt was a great wrestling announcer. When he called Montreal based International Wrestling, he had Cowboy Trey Travis as the colour commentator. Had the pleasure of getting to know him about 10 years ago, a very nice, yet scary man. Even in his 60's not someone you'd want to mess with. He had a boxing background and the biggest fists I have ever seen.

The 70's and 80's were the golden decades of wrestling IMO, enjoyed the Love Brothers, Johnny Powers, Edward Carpentier, the Beast etc.
The 1980's brought Hulk Hogan, Beefcake, Bundy, Orndorff, The Ravishing One etc, however it was the comedic genius of many of yesterday's managers that made the difference for me starting with Bobby "The Brain" Heenan who was the absolute best, Luscious Johnny Valiant, Classy Freddie Blassie, Slick and Jimmy Hart.

[Argo57]

I used to be quite interested in the WWE (then called the "WWF") back in the 1980s when I was a teenager but, other than watching it briefly again at the turn of the century, have pretty much gone away from it until the last few weeks. I feel these days like I need something mindless to watch to take my mind off of work and what could be more mindless than the WWE?

I have noticed a few things while watching again recently:

There isn't much of an attempt being made to pretend that this is real anymore. When I look at my TV guide on TIVO, they actually list the main attraction for RAW that coming week such as Shane McMahon returning to confront his father or Undertaker returning to confront Mr. McMahon about his upcoming Wrestlemania match against Shane.

I know that we have all aged over the past 15 years or so but Shane really has btw.

I love how the camera closest to the action will move up and down with every punch or elbow smash so that you can't tell as easily that a connection is not being made. However, it seems more apparent than ever just how fake the whole thing is from the regular camera angles.

I have thought over the last 15 to 20 years that this is really no different than a soap opera. Hell, the currently storyline involving the McMahons could have been taken from the old TV show Dallas.

Who is your current WWE favourite? I would have to say that mine are Dean Ambrose and The New Day. Ambrose takes a licking, enjoys it and keeps on ticking. The New Day are just fun to watch. The new thing these days seems to be these three or four man tag teams. I am amused by the League of Nations and the Social Outcasts as well. Calisto, btw, should ditch his tag team partner and just wrestle individually as he never wins in tag team matches. Finally, I am not a Brock Lesnar fan but do enjoy listening to his advocate, Paul Heyman, speak his words of wisdom.

Whatever happened to Linda McMahon?

Uhhhhh Ravi, everyone knows wrestling was real back in the day!!

["Issues"Mcgee]

Papa Shango.

[AngeloV]

The 70's and 80's were the golden decades of wrestling IMO, enjoyed the Love Brothers, Johnny Powers, Edward Carpentier, the Beast etc.
The 1980's brought Hulk Hogan, Beefcake, Bundy, Orndorff, The Ravishing One etc, however it was the comedic genius of many of yesterday's managers that made the difference for me starting with Bobby "The Brain" Heenan who was the absolute best, Luscious Johnny Valiant, Classy Freddie Blassie, Slick and Jimmy Hart.

To be totally honest, I hated when Jack Tunney brought WWF into this market in 1984. I used to love going to the Gardens for Maple Leaf wrestling shows featuring the stars of Mid Atlantic championship wrestling. We went from having a Gardens show every 2nd or 3rd Sunday, with Ric Flair in his prime wrestling great 30+ minute matches against the likes of Ricky Steamboat, Roddy Piper, Greg Valentine, Wahoo McDaniels..just to name a few, to watching Hulk Hogan wrestle for 8 minutes with 15 minutes of posing after the match. It just wasn't nearly as entertaining and they had considerably less Gardens shows as well.

[Argo57]

To be totally honest, I hated when Jack Tunney brought WWF into this market in 1984. I used to love going to the Gardens for Maple Leaf wrestling shows featuring the stars of Mid Atlantic championship wrestling. We went from having a Gardens show every 2nd or 3rd Sunday, with Ric Flair in his prime wrestling great 30+ minute matches against the likes of Ricky Steamboat, Roddy Piper, Greg Valentine, Wahoo McDaniels..just to name a few, to watching Hulk Hogan wrestle for 8 minutes with 15 minutes of posing after the match. It just wasn't nearly as entertaining and they had considerably less Gardens shows as well.

Hogan benefited from his "Thunderlips" character in the Rocky film which helped propel him to stardom in the WWF.
His ring skills were always limited but he had the look and some charisma.

[rdavies]

Does anyone remember The Superstars of Wrestling back in the 1970s with George Cannon, El Santo #1, El Santo #2, etc., Otto Von Heller, Edouard Carpentier, Mad Dog Vachon and many others?Mad Dog Vachon came 40 years too early. He would have been perfect for UFC. He was an accomplished amateur wrestler (7th in the 48 Olympics and British Empire Games Gold medalist in 1950) and one of the most vicious bar fighters of all time, a lethal combination, and he was only 5'7"

Legend has it that at the Olympics he was screwed out of getting to the semi finals and the official Olympic record does bear that out. He would take on all comers and old timers are surprised that he never killed anybody.

[Will]

To be totally honest, I hated when Jack Tunney brought WWF into this market in 1984. I used to love going to the Gardens for Maple Leaf wrestling shows featuring the stars of Mid Atlantic championship wrestling. We went from having a Gardens show every 2nd or 3rd Sunday, with Ric Flair in his prime wrestling great 30+ minute matches against the likes of Ricky Steamboat, Roddy Piper, Greg Valentine, Wahoo McDaniels..just to name a few, to watching Hulk Hogan wrestle for 8 minutes with 15 minutes of posing after the match. It just wasn't nearly as entertaining and they had considerably less Gardens shows as well.

There is no disputing that the quality of match one got from many of the existing NWA territories was superior to the WWF's product. I thought WWF had a Toronto show once every month at least (at the beginning). I count close to 20 cards in 1985 which is more than 1 a month. From what I understand, once Vince McMahon started expanding nationally, the Mid-Atlantic promotion decided to hold many of their top stars from Toronto shows which had the adverse effect of pushing Tunney to the New York camp.

I understood the purpose of WWF Superstars because the emphasis in the 1980's was still very much on the house show, but I don't understand why someone would fork out money to watch dozens of two minute squash matches? Remember that they filmed several episodes at a time.

[ArgoRavi]

Used to love that show.

Crude, Rude and Ignorant..Milt used to use that line for Sailor White.

Milt was a great wrestling announcer. When he called Montreal based International Wrestling, he had Cowboy Trey Travis as the colour commentator. Had the pleasure of getting to know him about 10 years ago, a very nice, yet scary man. Even in his 60's not someone you'd want to mess with. He had a boxing background and the biggest fists I have ever seen.

Sailor White from Newfoundland had a younger brother who he tag teamed with. Otto Von Heller was the one guy who especially frightened me as a young child. When I was 7 or 8, I thought that I would not want to see that guy walking down the street.

I remember the International Wrestling from the 1980s although I didn't get to see much of it as I had to work on Saturday afternoons when it aired. I had a friend who was really into it though so he would update me each week on what had happened. We actually had two International Wrestling events in northeastern Ontario where I am from and we went to both of them. My friend even handed a wrestler a chair to use when all kinds of chaos broke out at the end of one of those events.

[AngeloV]

Sailor White from Newfoundland had a younger brother who he tag teamed with. Otto Von Heller was the one guy who especially frightened me as a young child. When I was 7 or 8, I thought that I would not want to see that guy walking down the street.

I remember the International Wrestling from the 1980s although I didn't get to see much of it as I had to work on Saturday afternoons when it aired. I had a friend who was really into it though so he would update me each week on what had happened. We actually had two International Wrestling events in northeastern Ontario where I am from and we went to both of them. My friend even handed a wrestler a chair to use when all kinds of chaos broke out at the end of one of those events.

Their fans were real diehards. I remember watching on TV when Abdullah the Butcher laid a serious beating on Jaques Rougeau, and all the ringside fans started throwing their chairs into the ring at Abdullah. The next week, the Rougeau brothers got their revenge on Abdullah, as well as pummeling 60+ year old manager Eddie Creatchman. That was absolutely hilarious and had the good story of the baby faces getting their revenge.

[rdavies]

The next week, the Rougeau brothers got their revenge on Abdullah, as well as pummeling 60+ year old manager Eddie Creatchman. That was absolutely hilarious and had the good story of the baby faces getting their revenge (see Dynamite Kid reference below).Great interview with Ray Rougeau on YouTube. While Jacques was self admittedly "a lover not a fighter" mild mannered, polite Ray was a renowned tough guy not to be messed with, in the business.

In the interview, he recounts a story of straightening out Zarinoff Lebeouf who had taken advantage of an inexperienced Armand Rougeau and of course details the story of the infamous Jacques Rougeau/Dynamite Kid incident for 30 minutes. That story never gets old and of course ol' Ray is there backing up the family.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dR29AFdkTDs

[AngeloV]

Great interview with Ray Rougeau on YouTube. While Jacques was self admittedly "a lover not a fighter" mild mannered, polite Ray was a renowned tough guy not to be messed with, in the business.

In the interview, he recounts a story of straightening out Zarinoff Lebeouf who had taken advantage of an inexperienced Armand Rougeau and of course details the story of the infamous Jacques Rougeau/Dynamite Kid incident for 30 minutes. That story never gets old and of course ol' Ray is there backing up the family.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dR29AFdkTDs

Yes, I had recently seen that interview. It was pretty good stuff.

[Will]

Papa Shango.

"Man, I'd hate to meet Mama Shango" - Bobby Heenan, Wrestlemania VII