CFLPA still having issues at the top

[R.J]

http://www.tsn.ca/keeping-to-oppose-flory-s-players-association-presidency-1.460137

What a mess the PA is; no wonder they get destroyed during CBA negotiations. I hope that a director is soon hired (Dan Quinn be a fantastic hire IMO). The PA needs to get their act together and finally put in a drug testing policy along with ensuring that they receive a bigger piece of the pie for the next CBA.

[AngeloV]

http://www.tsn.ca/keeping-to-oppose-flory-s-players-association-presidency-1.460137

What a mess the PA is; no wonder they get destroyed during CBA negotiations. I hope that a director is soon hired (Dan Quinn be a fantastic hire IMO). The PA needs to get their act together and finally put in a drug testing policy along with ensuring that they receive a bigger piece of the pie for the next CBA.

Does bigger piece of the pie mean take less money if say 4 teams are losing money? I really don't know how much higher the league can go on salaries. Maybe I'm drinking the owners kool aid here, but IMO, there are still too many fires to increase the cap. If they were to increase the minimum, but not the overall cap, it would mean less for vets, an I bet they would not go for that.

[KCargosfan]

Does bigger piece of the pie mean take less money if say 4 teams are losing money? I really don't know how much higher the league can go on salaries. Maybe I'm drinking the owners kool aid here, but IMO, there are still too many fires to increase the cap. If they were to increase the minimum, but not the overall cap, it would mean less for vets, an I bet they would not go for that.

Agreed.

From last year, it would be hard to see Toronto, BC and Montreal being in the black. Hamilton likely made money for the first time ever and I doubt Hunt is getting rich in Ottawa.

When 33 percent of the league lost money, the players can't bitch too much.

I would actually like to see a maximum salary put in of $380K (being raised $5K every three years). That would help spread out the $ a bit from the quarterbacks.

[OV Argo]

Does bigger piece of the pie mean take less money if say 4 teams are losing money? I really don't know how much higher the league can go on salaries. Maybe I'm drinking the owners kool aid here, but IMO, there are still too many fires to increase the cap. If they were to increase the minimum, but not the overall cap, it would mean less for vets, an I bet they would not go for that.


There was no need - what-so-ever - IMO - for the CFL to go for the larger 46 man rosters.

Unions are mostly about protecting jobs I guess, and I doubt they would go backwards there, but IMO, a 40 man game roster (with a PR - 8 man say) would be sufficient: minimum wage could go up, and a bit more room to pay a bit more to keep top notch talent ?

[R.J]

Does bigger piece of the pie mean take less money if say 4 teams are losing money? I really don't know how much higher the league can go on salaries. Maybe I'm drinking the owners kool aid here, but IMO, there are still too many fires to increase the cap. If they were to increase the minimum, but not the overall cap, it would mean less for vets, an I bet they would not go for that.
I respectfully disagree. While I don't think there's this massive pot to play around with; I personally think that the League and teams have more money to spread with the players than they're letting on. When the current CBA was being negotiated; former Commissioner Mark Cohon brought up how the league's aggregate losses totaled around $16 million, a lot of media members and fans questioned this, then all of a sudden Mark brings up Winnipeg's new stadium and debt load; I believe it was eventually broken down to 3 teams lost money in 2013 - Hamilton $10 million (playing in Guelph), Toronto $5 million and Montreal $1 million (Dan Hawkins was fired and his contract bought out, plus the hiring of Schonert and Garcia). Now what made Cohon's claim odd and then questioned was that Saskatchewan made $1.74 million during the season and another $10+ million on the Grey Cup (not including paying the Province and City back the "Legacy Project" - ie the expanded seating), Edmonton made about $2 million and Winnipeg made just under $3.5 million. So either 5 teams all lost money or 2-3 teams lost money and the rest broke even; which even that didn't make much sense as Gordon Norrie (now former Stamp President) stated that the Stamps revenue's grew and BC at the time was thought to be making good money. Another thing to add in is that each team now receives an additional $2+ million from the new tv deal and the cap only went up by $600k initially, plus CBA signing bonuses the first year and the pension plan only went up minimally.

Now bear in mind that it looks like BC is in a bit of trouble currently and the Argos are the Argos, but with new ownership and home - we'll see how that goes. Hamilton made money last year for the first time in 30-40 years, Jeff Hunt has acknowledged that the team made "a bit of money" last season, Montreal's attendance was up and not only did they receive the new tv money like all other teams, but belair direct became a new primary sponsor in 2014. Gordon Norrie was on horsemen radio and brought up how every year he was the Stamps President - season ticket and corporate sales grew, Winnipeg made money last year, and we'll have to wait and see with Edmonton, but I find it highly unlikely that they didn't make at least a couple of million.

One way to also pay current players more is limiting the rosters to 40 (20 CDN - 20 INT, no reserve) and 8-10 PR players with at least 3 of those spots being mandatory Canadians. The biggest problem facing the League currently is Corporate Sponsorship, as they've struggled with that the last few years as have certain team (BC and Toronto). While no owner is getting super rich off the CFL - the players deserve more and IMO there's more to be had for them.

[AngeloV]

There was no need - what-so-ever - IMO - for the CFL to go for the larger 46 man rosters.

Unions are mostly about protecting jobs I guess, and I doubt they would go backwards there, but IMO, a 40 man game roster (with a PR - 8 man say) would be sufficient: minimum wage could go up, and a bit more room to pay a bit more to keep top notch talent ?

I like that plan, but like you, I don't see it happening.

The reality is that the only way the players will get a bigger piece of the pie, is if all 9 teams went into full revenue sharing. I can't see Saskatchewan, Edmonton and Calgary agreeing to that. Why would they give up any of their revenues to Toronto and B.C.? As long as there are teams losing money, I just can't se the players getting a bigger share.

[R.J]

I like that plan, but like you, I don't see it happening.

The reality is that the only way the players will get a bigger piece of the pie, is if all 9 teams went into full revenue sharing. I can't see Saskatchewan, Edmonton and Calgary agreeing to that. Why would they give up any of their revenues to Toronto and B.C.? As long as there are teams losing money, I just can't se the players getting a bigger share.
Lost me here. NHL and NBA teams lose money, and the players get 50%. We don't know if BC is losing money and honestly there's not too many leagues in the world that can say only 10-22% of their teams lose money.

[AngeloV]

Lost me here. NHL and NBA teams lose money, and the players get 50%. We don't know if BC is losing money and honestly there's not too many leagues in the world that can say only 10-22% of their teams lose money.

Difference being the valuations on those teams is much higher than a CFL team (deservedly or not). The theory being that they can likely turn around and sell an NHL team to recoup their losses. Do you think Bob Young would make back what he lost if he were to sell the Ti-Cats? I certainly don't. There is also an option to move an NHL team and get big revenue with expansion. CFL doesn't have these luxuries.

[R.J]

http://www.tsn.ca/lawless-cflpa-on-the-verge-of-growing-up-1.460505

Difference being the valuations on those teams is much higher than a CFL team (deservedly or not). The theory being that they can likely turn around and sell an NHL team to recoup their losses. Do you think Bob Young would make back what he lost if he were to sell the Ti-Cats? I certainly don't. There is also an option to move an NHL team and get big revenue with expansion. CFL doesn't have these luxuries.
I agree that NHL valuations (and NBA for that matter) make recouping easier, but the players and owners splitting 50% has very little to do with that IMO. I should also be clear that I'm not a fan of the 50-50 split as I think the players should get a maximum of 40%, but my point was more towards CFL players deserving a bigger piece of the pie (currently sits at around 25-35%). Also it should be mentioned that Bob Young hasn't lost as much money as what seems to be widely thought - when he bought the Ticats his newly formed company MRX was given the rights to the CFL website and designs, along with most team websites and email subscriptions. The advantage other teams have over the Ticats is the Grey Cup; Bob Young and the Ticats have yet to host the game since he became owner at the end of 2003. As I've said before there are very few league's that can claim less than 20% of their teams losing money and I find it highly unlikely that any team not named the Argonauts lose money on an annual basis starting from 2014 and I find it even less likely that the League can't afford the cap going up by a measly $50k annually.

Now to be as clear as I possibly can be, I'm not opposed to owners making money and recouping their losses over time and I'm not opposed to cost certainty, but the players deserve more. Football operational staff and coaches salaries are on the rise - why is a starting Quarterback today making about the same as Dunigan did in '91 ? And why has the league minimum only gone up by $7,000 in the last decade ?
According to Commissioner Orridge; League revenues were the highest they've ever been in 2015 (with exception to 2012).

[AngeloV]

We can all agree the players deserve more. I just hope in an effort to get more, we don't ever see a work stoppage in the CFL, because that can really kill the league.

[R.J]

We can all agree the players deserve more. I just hope in an effort to get more, we don't ever see a work stoppage in the CFL, because that can really kill the league.
Agreed. The last two NHL work stoppages have lead to me watching a lot less hockey - I haven't seen a full NHL game in a few years now, but in saying that; I'm not a fan of owners crying poor - even in the CFL.

[AngeloV]

Agreed. The last two NHL work stoppages have lead to me watching a lot less hockey - I haven't seen a full NHL game in a few years now, but in saying that; I'm not a fan of owners crying poor - even in the CFL.

See, I don't think they cry poor in the CFL. In the other sports, most teams also own the facility they play in, which is a financial help. I don't believe even 1 CFL team owns the stadium they play in. Edmonton and Saskatchewan being community owned likely have the best chance to create revenue from sources other than ticket sales at their home games, and no surprise, the are also considered to be the most financially stable.

[R.J]

http://www.tsn.ca/suitor-new-cflpa-leaders-need-to-be-in-place-right-away-1.461076

[R.J]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">can confirm, Jeff Keeping has been voted president of <a href="https://twitter.com/CFLPA">@CFLPA</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/CFL">@cfl</a></p>&mdash; gary lawless (@garylawless) <a href="https://twitter.com/garylawless/status/716066923176288256">April 2, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/cfl-55-yard-line/jeff-keeping-bests-incumbent-scott-flory-in-cflpa-election--according-to-tsn-011946852.html

[ArgoRavi]

And the Argos' Keon Raymond is the second vice-president.

[R.J]

And the Argos' Keon Raymond is the second vice-president.
http://www.tsn.ca/keeping-elected-new-cflpa-president-1.463311

And Josh Bourke is the 3rd VP. With Raymond's appointment the PA finally has a non Canadian offensive lineman as part of the executive team. Not sure about appointing Ramsey to executive director; IMO they should have chosen a non player with some legal and business experience - in time I could see Brouillette fill the executive director role.

[KCargosfan]

http://www.tsn.ca/keeping-elected-new-cflpa-president-1.463311

With Raymond's appointment the PA finally has a non Canadian offensive lineman as part of the executive team.

Raymond breaks into the Good Ole Boys club.

[paulwoods13]

Not sure about appointing Ramsey to executive director; IMO they should have chosen a non player with some legal and business experience - in time I could see Brouillette fill the executive director role.

Yep -- this just seems like repeating the Ed Molstad mistake. What likelihood does any former player, no matter how well educated, have of going toe to toe with the outstanding and extremely experienced negotiator (Steve Shamie) the league has used for the last two CBAs? If Ramsey is lead negotiator for the next contract, I predict the PA will be pounded again. If they hire someone with experience negotiating on behalf of labour, maybe a different story.

[R.J]

This was posted over on Riderfans.com by Giventofly.
http://www.riderfans.com/forum/showthread.php?134168-Flory-out-Keeping-in-as-head-of-CFLPA&p=3679996&viewfull=1#post3679996

http://www.rodpedersen.com/2016/04/update-on-cfl-congress-cflpa-meetings.html

Meanwhile Saskatchewan Roughriders player rep Chris Best joined the SportsCage to recap last week's Canadian Football League Players Association meetings in Las Vegas. As has been reported, Winnipeg Blue Bombers offensive lineman Jeff Keeping unseated Scott Flory as President of the CFLPA through a vote.

"Jeff has been involved with the Players Association for quite some time," Best said. "He's a smart guy, a Western (Ontario) guy, and Jeff has done a lot of great things for this union including with our Legal Counsel and the grievances we've had. Scott Flory did a lot of great things for this league, but it was a democratic process with a vote and Jeff was able to come away with winning the election."

One other noteworth item which came out of the Las Vegas meetings was the hiring of a new Executive Director for the CFLPA.

"We have a new Executive Director in Brian Ramsey, who played with the Edmonton Eskimos last year," Best reported. "He's going to retire and takeover the role to help the President out. With a President who's still playing in the league, he won't be able to handle all of that stuff. And we're also really excited about the Argos' Keon Raymond coming aboard as Second V.P. Having an American and a defensive player in there helps us out with our perspective because I know in the past they've talked about the Executive as being a bunch of Canadian offensive linemen so he'll help us out there."

Best further explained the role of imports on the CFLPA Executive.

"We had a bunch of American reps, and we've talked about this for years, but they said the Executive only represents half the league and they're absolutely right," Best maintained. "The time was right to make sure no matter how the votes go, an American would be on the board and have all voting power. We'll always have an American on the board to address the Americans' concerns because they have different issues than what we've been worried about."

Besides the election, Best said there were several other items discussed at Planet Hollywood.

"Right now, honestly, we're just focused on the next CBA which is coming up in the next couple of years," Best reported. "That's always one of our issues. Drug-testing is on the horizon and we're trying to address that. We want to have a fair and safe league. Those are really the two biggest things we're talking about right now. We talked about sponsorships, all of our grievances - both resolved and unresolved - and the state of the union financially. Obviously because it was an election year, that was a very important thing. We had some nine hour long days so guys were pretty beat by the end of the days. I went into the meetings thinking it would be a work trip and it truly was that."

SportsCage co-host Mike Abou-Mechrek asked Best if they perceive a problem with having an active CFL player fill the role of CFLPA President.

"There was some concern about that but Jeff addressed that really well," Best said. "The whole idea with the new Executive Director being Brian Ramsey is to handle a lot of the day-to-day stuff. In the past it was impossible to be the President as well as an active player so this is more of a supervisory role for him. Brian Ramsey will really be the one in the office handling the calls when you have an issue with a player. Ramsey wasn't interested in becoming the President. We had over a hundred candidates apply to be the Executive Director and we got that down to 20, and then we whittled it down to three. From that process, we picked Brian Ramsey because he's been our Treasurer and works as a full-time accountant in the off-season. He's going to resign from his accounting firm and dedicate himself full-time to this position."