Argos cfl draft since 1995

[eiben35]

SINCE 2005 THE ARGOS HAVE DRAFTED 47 PLAYERS. ONLY TWO ARE POSSIBLE STARTERS (WATT AND EPPELLE)
ONLY SIX ARE EITHER BACK-UPS OR PRACTICE ROSTER PLAYERS FOR TORNTO AND ONLY 7 OTHERS ARE STILL PLAYING IN THE CFL.
NO WONDER THIS ORGANIZATION CAN NEVER KEEP THEIR FANS.
:love:

[1argoholic]

It's time they got their heads together and went in the proper direction starting with taking the draft seriouly.

[ArgoRavi]

SINCE 2005 THE ARGOS HAVE DRAFTED 47 PLAYERS. ONLY TWO ARE POSSIBLE STARTERS (WATT AND EPPELLE)
ONLY SIX ARE EITHER BACK-UPS OR PRACTICE ROSTER PLAYERS FOR TORNTO AND ONLY 7 OTHERS ARE STILL PLAYING IN THE CFL.
NO WONDER THIS ORGANIZATION CAN NEVER KEEP THEIR FANS.
:love:

How does that compare with other teams?

[eiben35]

Montreal has 7 starters and five back-ups or practice roster players in that same time frame and four other playes are with different organizations including our own Chris Van Zeyl. Montreal always picks 8th as well and never early like Toronto.

[OV Argo]

Argos not well positioned in this year's draft to maybe make a big impact; still possible though with smart scouting.

The Als & BC have been the 2 best drafting teams by a long-shot in the CFL for some time now IMO; and the Riders have done better lately - with some players who have been key contributors; the Als & the Riders were teams lately playing/starting more than the bare 7 minimum NIs - that some CFL personnel types are hung-up on - the usual "ratio problem" bull$h*t cliche - and they did manage to get to a few GCs lately.

Not sure this new coaching staff (and with Barker still there as GM) will have big faith in the draft or NI players in general; we shall see; and I agree - it's an area that needs big improvement.

[paulwoods13]

I put this together a couple of years ago -- a personal analysis of the Argos' draft record 2000-2009. It is a bit out-of-date as we now could put a more specific value on some of the most recent draftees like Bradwell and Legare, but I'm submitting it as it was when I did it. Codes: ST (short-term), LT (long-term), DNP (did not play). Hope the table works in this app.

Year Round Pick Player Position School Result Rank
2001 4 26 Eiben, Kevin S Bucknell all-star 1
2000 1 4 Carter, Donnavan S Northern Illinois starter 2
2001 1 4 Reid, Angus G Simon Fraser starter 2
2001 5 34 Talbot, Andrew WR Wilfrid Laurier starter 2
2006 5 39 Ramsay, Brian OL New Mexico starter 2
2005 2 11 Fontaine, Ray LB Kentucky LT bkup 3
2005 2 18 Keeping, Jeff OT Western Ontario LT bkup 3
2006 2 10 Mitchell, Leron DB Western Ontario LT bkup 3
2006 2 14 Wagner, Aaron LB Brigham Young LT bkup 3
2003 4 28 Mariuz, Ray LB McMaster LT bkup 3
2006 4 31 Cetoute, Obed WR Central Florida LT bkup 3
2007 4 30 Schmidt, Steve TE/AR San Diego State LT bkup 3
2002 5 45 Walsh, Chuck LB Waterloo LT bkup 3
2005 5 44 Crawford, Bryan RB Queen's LT bkup 3
2003 6 48 Palmer, Micheal WR Guelph LT bkup 3
2007 6 44 Smith, Brad WR/RE Queen's LT bkup 3
2002 1 3 Annett, Cory OL EMichigan ST bkup 4
2005 2 14 Audet, Philippe DL Laval ST bkup 4
2008 3 21 Carriere, J-N LB McGill ST bkup 4
2005 1 9 Kaczur, Nick OL Toledo NFL 6
2006 1 5 Federkeil, Daniel DL Calgary NFL 6
2006 6 47 Dawson, Clifton RB Harvard NFL 6
2009 1 2 Légaré, Étienne DL Laval TBD 7
2008 2 13 Bradwell, Mike REC McMaster TBD 7
2009 2 10 Lambros, Matt WR Liberty TBD 7
2009 3 18 Green, James DB Calgary TBD 7
2008 4 29 Clarke, Delroy DB Ottawa TBD 7
2009 4 26 Pollari, Zachary OT Western Ontario TBD 7
2008 5 37 Zulys, Richard OL Western TBD 7
2009 5 34 Sawler, Gordon DL St. Francis Xavier TBD 7
2008 6 42 Dewit, Mark OL Calgary TBD 7
2008 6 44 Scott, Tyler REC Western TBD 7
2008 6 45 Black, Matt DB Saginaw Valley TBD 7
2009 6 42 Deslauriers, A. DB Simon Fraser TBD 7
2009 6 43 Crawford, Brad DB Guelph TBD 7
2000 2 11 Clarke, Richard WR Weber State DNP 8
2000 3 18 Souter, Carson K Montana State DNP 8
2002 3 21 Tremblay, Robin DE Houston DNP 8
2000 4 24 Meloche, Benoit LB Laval DNP 8
2000 4 26 Millington, Kojo DE Wilfrid Laurier DNP 8
2002 4 28 Stewart, Rob DT Manitoba DNP 8
2002 4 30 Sanschagrin, A. DB Western Ontario DNP 8
2004 4 30 Hoffman, Frank DL York DNP 8
2005 4 35 Smith, Tye OL Manitoba DNP 8
2007 4 29 Maranda, Eric LB/S Laval DNP 8
2000 5 34 Coutts, Brad WR British Columbia DNP 8
2001 5 39 Romans, Jermaine DB Acadia DNP 8
2002 5 39 Brereton, Marvin RB Buffalo DNP 8
2003 5 39 Fury, Derik LB Mount Allison DNP 8
2004 5 39 Mahoney, Mike LB McGill DNP 8
2007 5 37 Simms, Sean DL/LD York DNP 8
2000 6 42 Posy-Audette, J-V DB Laval DNP 8
2001 6 42 McKnight, Matt S Waterloo DNP 8
2002 6 48 Spender, Sean LB Guelph DNP 8
2002 6 49 Cockburn, Jarel WR Columbia DNP 8
2002 6 54 Ray, Darryl WR Ottawa DNP 8
2004 6 48 Mahoney, Brandan WR Simon Fraser DNP 8
2005 6 53 Forde, Ian RB Waterloo DNP 8
2004 1 4 Moroz, Mark OL Wake Forest bust 9
2004 1 7 Tremblay, J-F WR Laval bust 9

[OV Argo]

I put this together a couple of years ago -- a personal analysis of the Argos' draft record 2000-2009. It is a bit out-of-date as we now could put a more specific value on some of the most recent draftees like Bradwell and Legare, but I'm submitting it as it was when I did it. Codes: ST (short-term), LT (long-term), DNP (did not play). Hope the table works in this app.

Year Round Pick Player Position School Result Rank
2001 4 26 Eiben, Kevin S Bucknell all-star 1
2000 1 4 Carter, Donnavan S Northern Illinois starter 2
2001 1 4 Reid, Angus G Simon Fraser starter 2
2001 5 34 Talbot, Andrew WR Wilfrid Laurier starter 2
2006 5 39 Ramsay, Brian OL New Mexico starter 2
2005 2 11 Fontaine, Ray LB Kentucky LT bkup 3
2005 2 18 Keeping, Jeff OT Western Ontario LT bkup 3
2006 2 10 Mitchell, Leron DB Western Ontario LT bkup 3
2006 2 14 Wagner, Aaron LB Brigham Young LT bkup 3
2003 4 28 Mariuz, Ray LB McMaster LT bkup 3
2006 4 31 Cetoute, Obed WR Central Florida LT bkup 3
2007 4 30 Schmidt, Steve TE/AR San Diego State LT bkup 3
2002 5 45 Walsh, Chuck LB Waterloo LT bkup 3
2005 5 44 Crawford, Bryan RB Queen's LT bkup 3
2003 6 48 Palmer, Micheal WR Guelph LT bkup 3
2007 6 44 Smith, Brad WR/RE Queen's LT bkup 3
2002 1 3 Annett, Cory OL EMichigan ST bkup 4
2005 2 14 Audet, Philippe DL Laval ST bkup 4
2008 3 21 Carriere, J-N LB McGill ST bkup 4
2005 1 9 Kaczur, Nick OL Toledo NFL 6
2006 1 5 Federkeil, Daniel DL Calgary NFL 6
2006 6 47 Dawson, Clifton RB Harvard NFL 6
2009 1 2 Légaré, Étienne DL Laval TBD 7
2008 2 13 Bradwell, Mike REC McMaster TBD 7
2009 2 10 Lambros, Matt WR Liberty TBD 7
2009 3 18 Green, James DB Calgary TBD 7
2008 4 29 Clarke, Delroy DB Ottawa TBD 7
2009 4 26 Pollari, Zachary OT Western Ontario TBD 7
2008 5 37 Zulys, Richard OL Western TBD 7
2009 5 34 Sawler, Gordon DL St. Francis Xavier TBD 7
2008 6 42 Dewit, Mark OL Calgary TBD 7
2008 6 44 Scott, Tyler REC Western TBD 7
2008 6 45 Black, Matt DB Saginaw Valley TBD 7
2009 6 42 Deslauriers, A. DB Simon Fraser TBD 7
2009 6 43 Crawford, Brad DB Guelph TBD 7
2000 2 11 Clarke, Richard WR Weber State DNP 8
2000 3 18 Souter, Carson K Montana State DNP 8
2002 3 21 Tremblay, Robin DE Houston DNP 8
2000 4 24 Meloche, Benoit LB Laval DNP 8
2000 4 26 Millington, Kojo DE Wilfrid Laurier DNP 8
2002 4 28 Stewart, Rob DT Manitoba DNP 8
2002 4 30 Sanschagrin, A. DB Western Ontario DNP 8
2004 4 30 Hoffman, Frank DL York DNP 8
2005 4 35 Smith, Tye OL Manitoba DNP 8
2007 4 29 Maranda, Eric LB/S Laval DNP 8
2000 5 34 Coutts, Brad WR British Columbia DNP 8
2001 5 39 Romans, Jermaine DB Acadia DNP 8
2002 5 39 Brereton, Marvin RB Buffalo DNP 8
2003 5 39 Fury, Derik LB Mount Allison DNP 8
2004 5 39 Mahoney, Mike LB McGill DNP 8
2007 5 37 Simms, Sean DL/LD York DNP 8
2000 6 42 Posy-Audette, J-V DB Laval DNP 8
2001 6 42 McKnight, Matt S Waterloo DNP 8
2002 6 48 Spender, Sean LB Guelph DNP 8
2002 6 49 Cockburn, Jarel WR Columbia DNP 8
2002 6 54 Ray, Darryl WR Ottawa DNP 8
2004 6 48 Mahoney, Brandan WR Simon Fraser DNP 8
2005 6 53 Forde, Ian RB Waterloo DNP 8
2004 1 4 Moroz, Mark OL Wake Forest bust 9
2004 1 7 Tremblay, J-F WR Laval bust 9


Intersting list Paul; but IMO - if you did a deep analysis and looked at a lot of other players the Argos could have drafted instead of a lot of those guys taken - the result would be embarassing in a lot of cases (and of course the same could be said for a lot of teams' drafting = lots of hit and miss - but the Argos would IMO rank high in the drafting hall of shame category); and combine that with ill advised NFL bound or happened to get a shot there type picks (Kaczur, Federkeil, Greenwood for example), plus a lot of trading away of draft picks over the years = the Argos have been about as a bad as it gets in the CFL draft for YEARS now, IMO.

But mind you - some or a lot of that may have to do with the attitude of the team's personnel decision making guys over the years; if you just pencil in 7 only NIs for playing time because you'd rather hand jobs to import players, or you don't want to address position needs with Canadian players - pretty tough for them to have a good impact often.

And BTW - by comparison - and just off the top of my head, without looking closely at the draft lists (since 2000) - here's a list of some Als draft picks who have either been all-stars, starters or good contributors to a team that's been to a few GCs lately: Karikari, Stala, Bourke, Proulx, Boulay, DesLauriers, Perrett, Emry, Woodruff, Woldu, Brodeur-Jourdain (and not including a number of young, back-up guys still on their roster; nor older draft picks who played long-time on their recent rosters as key contributors - like Cahoon, Flory, Chiu, Davis Sanchez). Your Argo list has maybe 3 draft picks - Eiben, Carter, Talbot - who have been solid starters for the Argos

[paulwoods13]

Your Argo list has maybe 3 draft picks - Eiben, Carter, Talbot - who have been solid starters for the Argos

There are no "maybes" -- it has only four guys who became starters in the league, only three of whom started for the Argos. The point of the exercise was to assess how much the team's draft picks contributed over a 10-year span. The answer was obviously "very little."

[OV Argo]

There are no "maybes" -- it has only four guys who became starters in the league, only three of whom started for the Argos. The point of the exercise was to assess how much the team's draft picks contributed over a 10-year span. The answer was obviously "very little."

I meant guys who were solid full-time starters for the Argos; Keeping started at DT for the Argos for a season; and Legare played a lot (basically a "starter" - in a rotation at DT) for the Esks last year; Ramsay has been a starter at times; Cetoute, Bradwell and Scott have all "started" some games for the Argos, no?

[paulwoods13]

I meant guys who were solid full-time starters for the Argos; Keeping started at DT for the Argos for a season; and Legare played a lot (basically a "starter" - in a rotation at DT) for the Esks last year; Ramsay has been a starter at times; Cetoute, Bradwell and Scott have all "started" some games for the Argos, no?

My analysis was completely subjective and arguable, OV. I classified players as follows, based on my own observations and analysis but there is no question I applied some subjective and arguable judgments:

* All-star (Eiben only)
* Starter (Carter, Reid, Talbot, Ramsay) -- I used this classification for guys who started consistently over a period exceeding one season
* Long-term backup -- guys who were on a roster for several seasons but did not start often -- IMO that would now include Keeping, Scott and Bradwell, but not Cetoute who has hardly played in four or five seasons around the league
* Short-term backup -- guys who dressed for a fairly brief period of time, usually not much more than a season
* NFL -- Federkeil, etc.
* TBD -- guys about whom it was too soon to reach conclusions when I did this analysis a couple of years ago because they had been drafted too recently
* DNP -- guys who did not play ever, or had only a very brief tenure
* Bust -- guys who seemed to have huge potential but for one reason or another did not pan out (Moroz and Tremblay)

Using these criteria, I came up with one star, four starters, 11 LT backups, 3 ST backups, 3 NFL, 13 TBD, 23 DNP and two busts. Not a lot to show for 10 drafts.

With the benefit of more time to update the analysis, I would now rate the TBD guys as follows:

2009 1 2 Légaré, Étienne DL Laval LT backup
2008 2 13 Bradwell, Mike REC McMaster LT backup
2009 2 10 Lambros, Matt WR Liberty DNP
2009 3 18 Green, James DB Calgary ST backup
2008 4 29 Clarke, Delroy DB Ottawa LT backup
2009 4 26 Pollari, Zachary OT Western Ontario DNP
2008 5 37 Zulys, Richard OL Western DNP
2009 5 34 Sawler, Gordon DL St. Francis Xavier DNP
2008 6 42 Dewit, Mark OL Calgary LT backup
2008 6 44 Scott, Tyler REC Western LT backup
2008 6 45 Black, Matt DB Saginaw Valley LT backup
2009 6 42 Deslauriers, A. DB Simon Fraser DNP
2009 6 43 Crawford, Brad DB Guelph DNP

So six more LT backups, 1 ST backup and six DNPs from the classes of 2008 and 2009 -- not a terrible output for those years, judged in isolation and without comparing against who they passed up to take those guys.

[eiben35]

J.F. Tremblay was going to be a stud but unfortuantely he had a chronic hamstring injury. The Argos either trade away first round picks or they never turn into starters like otehr teams.

[paulwoods13]

J.F. Tremblay was going to be a stud but unfortuantely he had a chronic hamstring injury. The Argos either trade away first round picks or they never turn into starters like otehr teams.

I count Tremblay as a bust because of his unfulfilled potential.

They had eight first-round picks in 10 years between 2000 and 2009: Carter, Reid, Annett, Kazcur, Federkeil, Legare, Moroz and Tremblay. Two starters (Carter, Reid) two picks wasted on NFLers (Fed, Kaz), two busts (Tremblay, Moroz), 1 short-term backup (Annett) and one long-term backup (Legare). So basically batting .250 since Round 1 should yield eventual starters.

[Nob]

What ever happened to Federkeil?

[Argocister]

What ever happened to Federkeil?
Retired due to injury and returned to university. Possibly done now.

[Nob]

How scary is that list of first rounders? Throw in Greenwood into that list and it's a big list of wasted opportunity to up the NI talent.

I'm a big believer that you win with Canadians in this league. You are as only as good as your NI talent.

[1argoholic]

That's the way I see it as well. Look at wally always finding great Jr talent as well. Who would have thought that I could have gone and watched Andrew Harris running wild in Nanaimo for the Raiders just a few years back.

[gilthethrill]

A veteran member of the Argo front office told me at Fan Day a couple years ago that he wanted to draft a guy named Ben Cahoon in 98. But with Vanderjagt (sp) departing to the NFL, he was overuled & David Miller-Johnston was drafted in the 1st round instead.

You just never know.

[gilthethrill]

Going back even further, in the mid 90's a DB named Mark Montruil who played CIS in the Quebec Conference was drafted high by the Argos. He had a decent career in the NFL with San Diego as a nickle back.

[argofandave]

A veteran member of the Argo front office told me at Fan Day a couple years ago that he wanted to draft a guy named Ben Cahoon in 98. But with Vanderjagt (sp) departing to the NFL, he was overuled & David Miller-Johnston was drafted in the 1st round instead.

You just never know.

I remember reading this in an article about Nick Volpe in one of the Toronto newspapers a few years ago. Nick strongly recommended that the Argos draft Cahoon but he was overuled by Don Mathews who wanted to draft a kicker instead.

[gilthethrill]

I remember reading this in an article about Nick Volpe in one of the Toronto newspapers a few years ago. Nick strongly recommended that the Argos draft Cahoon but he was overuled by Don Mathews who wanted to draft a kicker instead.

Yes, that is correct dave.

[Will]

I remember reading this in an article about Nick Volpe in one of the Toronto newspapers a few years ago. Nick strongly recommended that the Argos draft Cahoon but he was overuled by Don Mathews who wanted to draft a kicker instead.

Why did the Argos draft a kicker in the first round? Was this Miller-Johnston that heralded? I don't remember him at all, I remember Vanderjagt leaving for Indianapolis and remember Prefontaine, Marini and Giancola, but not Miller-Johnston.

[ArgoRavi]

Why did the Argos draft a kicker in the first round? Was this Miller-Johnston that heralded? I don't remember him at all, I remember Vanderjagt leaving for Indianapolis and remember Prefontaine, Marini and Giancola, but not Miller-Johnston.

Miller-Johnston was that heralded from what I can recall but turned out to be a complete bust as a pro (he later played a few games for the old Ottawa Renegades). The Argos drafted Noel Prefontaine in the supplemental draft a few weeks after drafting Miller-Johnston and Prefontaine had the stronger leg and was simply the better kicker in training camp. Pre struggled with his FG kicking early in that '98 season and Arek Bigos was brought in to replace him. Bigos was good for a while but then really struggled towards the end of the season and they had to bring Carlos Huerta in for the playoff game in Montreal. Bigos then was injured in the off-season and that was the end of his career. Here is a link to an article about kickers like Bigos who had short stints with the Argos (Huerta somewhat surprisingly is not mentioned): http://www.cfl.ca/article/argos-one-kick-wonders

[OV Argo]

Miller-Johnson was a pretty highly regarded kicker out of Concordia - and got to play in the US college East-West Shrine game as one of the 2 CIS reps who get to go to that game. Did struggle in his CFL opportunities, but I'm surprised he didn't get another look somewhere - might have been more entrenched vet kickers in the league at that time? I believe he has been coaching in CIS ball for some time.

But using a 2nd overall pick on a kicker ??? = very dumb drafting strategy IMO (unless you were quite sure the guy was the 2nd coming of Lui Passaglia); wasn't a great draft year in 98; but still - there is almost always some top notch talent in every draft year that smart scouts should be able to recognize - Argos coulda had Cahoon, Thelwell or Scott Flory with that pick instead of taking a kicker - nice call Matthews.

[argofandave]

Thanks for posting the link to the article, Ravi. I actually own the game worn Argo jersey that Steve Christie wore for his 1 game for the Argos or at least I thought I did until I saw the photo of him as an Argo. The photo shows both a Rona and Panasonic patch on the jersey but the Panasonic patch is blue with white lettering whereas on the jersey that I have, the Panasonic patch is white with blue lettering. Now that I've looked closely at my jersey, I can tell that a patch was removed and the white Panasonic patch was put in its place. I know that the teams in the CFL sometimes wear different patches for the post season games but I find it strange that a white Panasonic patch would replace a blue Panasonic patch. Does anybody have any idea why this was done?

[1argoholic]

It was done to screw with your mind. haha. Twilight Zone.