Wayne Smith

[Argonauter]

Argos have signed Wayne Smith who is a native of Toronto.


83

[Will]

Source of the rumors?

[Argonauter]

Here's an article on Smith from when the Ticats signed him that focuses on his career up to that point and abilities.

http://www.cfl.ca/article/cats-bolster-o-line-add-wayne-smith


HAMILTON -- The Hamilton Tiger-Cats announced today that the team has signed free agent Canadian offensive lineman Wayne Smith.

Smith, a 6-2, 305-pound native of Toronto, Ontario was originally selected by the Ticats with the first overall pick in the 2004 CFL Canadian Draft. He played three seasons in Hamilton, earning the team's Most Outstanding Rookie nomination in 2004 and Most Outstanding Offensive Lineman nomination in 2005, before being dealt to the Saskatchewan Roughriders prior to the 2007 season. Smith earned a Grey Cup ring with the Riders in 2007.

"We're excited to bring Wayne back to Hamilton, as he's very athletic and can play multiple positions along the offensive line. He's also an outstanding character guy that will make a positive contribution off of the field as well," said General Manager Bob O'Billovich.

The Appalachian State product has suited up in 80 regular season games, four playoff games and one Grey Cup final.


Source of the rumors?

Drew Edwards.

http://scratchingpost.thespec.com/2012/03/former-ticats-ol-wayne-smith-signs-with-argos.html


That didn't take long.
Have heard from a very reliable source that former Ticats offensive lineman Wayne Smith has agreed to terms with the Toronto Argonauts.
The Argos offensive is undergoing a major overhaul - 2011 starters Rob Murphy Taylor Robertson and Dominic Picard are no longer with the club - so Smith should get his wish: a chance at a starting job.
And he gets to stay in the area, which is nice. He lives in Southern Ontario year-round.

[RoRoYoBoat]

Very good move. Wayne Smith is excellent and he was in great shape last season. Very happy about this.

[1argoholic]

Nice to hear.

[Argocister]

From the scratching posts and other twitters, sounds like Wayne Smith was not too happy being the 6th man on the line. Sounds like he will push for a starter spot.
Good for competition.
:)

[jerrym]

Good move. The Argo offensive line definitely needed strengthening. I would also like to see the interior defensive line strengthened as teams were running up the middle on us constantly, although if Huntley recovers his old form from two years ago that would partly solve this problem. The question is are his injuries catching up with him. As for Wroten, as far as I am concerned, the team should drop him because he is too undisciplined both on and off the field and not a team player.

[RoRoYoBoat]

I think unless Wroten has a stellar camp he will be history anyway. I remember reading he was making big money !

[OV Argo]

The Argos have now added a couple of vet O-Linemen - in Parenteau & Smith - to a position group that needed help/depth; good move IMO - and they could both possibly claim starting jobs probably, or at the very least, being good depth - at either OG or OT.

[Argonut]

I am wondering... with this move, are the Argonauts thinking of going to an all Canadian offensive line?

[RoRoYoBoat]

We must start at least four.Drurie/Johnson makes five, Pottinger and Black makes seven and Foley rotating in and out on the edge. Also clear by the roster that focus will be on drafting the following: Running Back/Full Back
D linesman, O linesman . As we currently have no backup for Black,Foley or Johnson. Or we could also see a trade if we can acquire one of those that would allow drafting a receiver early as there are quite a few good ones.

[OV Argo]

We must start at least four.Drurie/Johnson makes five, Pottinger and Black makes seven and Foley rotating in and out on the edge. Also clear by the roster that focus will be on drafting the following: Running Back/Full Back
D linesman, O linesman . As we currently have no backup for Black,Foley or Johnson. Or we could also see a trade if we can acquire one of those that would allow drafting a receiver early as there are quite a few good ones.


??? - Foley will be, IMO, the only sure bet for a full-time gig by a NI on the D; the roating a NI in and out at various spots on the D to get the required 7th NI "starter" (used by Jones and the Stamps defence) could occur at several positions - LB w/ Pottinger, at DT with Alexandre; maybe at DB w/ Black for some packages; that's if they have to go to this trick if there are only 5 NIs starting on offence.


I am wondering... with this move, are the Argonauts thinking of going to an all Canadian offensive line?


That could be quite feasable, as the only projected import starter is Coughman - and it's not like he is some established star OT in the league; and if Tyler Holmes shows up for TC, they could have him, Eppelle and Parenteau (former DI all-star as an OT and i think has at least played there some in the CFL) all compete for that OT spot; are there any other import O-Linemen even signed for TC at this point?

[Argonauter]

That could be quite feasable, as the only projected import starter is Coughman - and it's not like he is some established star OT in the league; and if Tyler Holmes shows up for TC, they could have him, Eppelle and Parenteau (former DI all-star as an OT and i think has at least played there some in the CFL) all compete for that OT spot; are there any other import O-Linemen even signed for TC at this point?

There are already strong rumours that Tyler Holmes is not likely to be drafted or signed by an NFL team as a free agent and will be up here for training camp which is more good news. I don't know what's going to happen with Reinders other than I'm sure he'll be cut at some point by the Giants but maybe he thinks he's too good for the CFL.

[RoRoYoBoat]

There is ZERO chance that a rookie out of College will be covering Ricky Ray's blind side.


??? - Foley will be, IMO, the only sure bet for a full-time gig by a NI on the D; the roating a NI in and out at various spots on the D to get the required 7th NI "starter" (used by Jones and the Stamps defence) could occur at several positions - LB w/ Pottinger, at DT with Alexandre; maybe at DB w/ Black for some packages; that's if they have to go to this trick if there are only 5 NIs starting on offence.

Sure bet my a...

[Area 51]

Do you actually think Ricky Foley might not be a starter? That's about as nonsensical as saying Ricky Ray might not be the starting QB this year.

Seriously? Foley was by far the Argos best DLineman last year, and I'd also say their best defensive player overall. And you think he might not be a starter this year? Do you really think Matt Black, who's never started before, or Pottinger who's coming off a torn knee are closer to being a "sure bet" than Foley is?

I'd really like to hear your rationale as to why Foley might not be a starter this year.

[OV Argo]

There is ZERO chance that a rookie out of College will be covering Ricky Ray's blind side.

So - it's OK then that Coughman - played a few games last year for a grand total of half a year or so of CFL experience - would be "covering" Ray's "blind side" ??? Holmes has experience in Canadian football having grown-up playing it, and i think it can be argued that he has a quite a bit better US college ball resume than Coughman too. IF the Argos were that worried about having some great, or ultra experienced OT to help protect Ray, they should have maybe kept Rob Murphy; or they could try Parenteau or Wayne Smith at OT - they have plenty of CFL O-Line experience and instincts bulit up; or, the Argos could be trading for an experienced CFL OT; to say Holmes is out of the question but you're OK with the status quo starters at the end of last year, makes very little sense to me.

[RoRoYoBoat]

I think he will rotate just like Pottinger,Black,Johnson and Drurie.


So - it's OK then that Coughman - played a few games last year for a grand total of half a year or so of CFL experience - would be "covering" Ray's "blind side" ??? Holmes has experience in Canadian football having grown-up playing it, and i think it can be argued that he has a quite a bit better US college ball resume than Coughman too. IF the Argos were that worried about having some great, or ultra experienced OT to help protect Ray, they should have maybe kept Rob Murphy; or they could try Parenteau or Wayne Smith at OT - they have plenty of CFL O-Line experience and instincts bulit up; or, the Argos could be trading for an experienced CFL OT; to say Holmes is out of the question but you're OK with the status quo starters at the end of last year, makes very little sense to me.

I don`t think the decision has been made. Oline is a work in progress. We have at least two NI with experience who can play tackle in VZ and Smith. I doubt we can trade for one. These guys just are not available on the trade market.

[OV Argo]

I think he will rotate just like Pottinger,Black,Johnson and Drurie.

It could well be that the Argos will find some new DE who is a good pass rusher; and Jones did like to rotate a lot of guys in and out on the Stamps D (a good idea / strategy for a D IMO); and, the Stamps D rarely played any NI full-time; however - Foley is arguably the best player on the Argos D - if there is a new DE to rotate in, it would probably be on the other side - it would make little sense IMO, to leave Flemons or some other import DE, who are nowhere near as good as Foley, in to play full-time while Foley gets pulled some of the time ??? - why - because he's a Canadian? Foley - as the best play-maker on the Argos D - should be on the field as much as possible.

[Nob]

Foley not a full-time player??.......don't see that happening. Not only is he your best defensive player, he's probably the highest paid player not named Ray. Too much money and too much talent for him to not be on the field. Could he be subbed out in certain packages?......maybe, but I don't see that either. Could he get spelled out for a breather?......possibly, but I don't recall that happening either.

To be honest, I see Tristan being the Black that gets more playing time on defense. While I like Matt Black, and hope that he can succeed, I don't see it happening. Love his ST hustle, but I don't know that he's a full-time starter.

But then again, I'm just a fan on a website forum. Who knows what the coaching staff is thinking.

[RoRoYoBoat]

Foley had six sacks all of last year. That ranked him 12th in the league and some of the guys ahead of him like Mainor and Vega didn't even play a full season. Even Anwar Stewart who is 37 had more sacks than Ricky Foley.

When I say rotate, it does not have to be with a NI at the same position.

[Area 51]

Foley had six sacks all of last year. That ranked him 12th in the league and some of the guys ahead of him like Mainor and Vega didn't even play a full season. Even Anwar Stewart who is 37 had more sacks than Ricky Foley.



Foley also had 69 tackles, which is phenomenal for a DE. That ranked him 14th in the league. The closest DE in tackles had almost 40% LESS.

But let`s talk about the sacks. Did you notice that Foley tied for the team lead in sacks last year? The Argos other DE had three - - should that guy even be invited to camp this year?

The low sack totals last year were a direct result of the soft coverage of the secondary. If the QB takes a three step drop and lets it go, do you think it`s realistic to expect ANYONE to get pressure on the QB?

QB takes one step...two steps....three steps...

Foley takes one step...two steps...beats the OT...beats the RB...three steps - - too late, the ball`s already gone.

Sacks happen when the quick read is taken away. Give a cushion of 5 to 10yds and the QB just plays pitch-and-catch with the open receivers. Call a 30yd post route and the pass rush has a chance to get to the QB. On a 5yd dump off? No way.

Given the insanity of personnel decisions last year, you could be absolutely right that they`ll rotate Foley out on passing downs. Maybe Ben Ishola`s ready for a breakout season. Maybe they want to take advantage of Huntley`s speed and use him at rush end. Maybe they`ll also start BJ Hall at QB to run the Wildcat and use Ricky Ray to hold for placekicks.

[RoRoYoBoat]

Foley also had 69 tackles, which is phenomenal for a DE. That ranked him 14th in the league. The closest DE in tackles had almost 40% LESS.

But let`s talk about the sacks. Did you notice that Foley tied for the team lead in sacks last year? The Argos other DE had three - - should that guy even be invited to camp this year?

The low sack totals last year were a direct result of the soft coverage of the secondary. If the QB takes a three step drop and lets it go, do you think it`s realistic to expect ANYONE to get pressure on the QB?

QB takes one step...two steps....three steps...

Foley takes one step...two steps...beats the OT...beats the RB...three steps - - too late, the ball`s already gone.

Sacks happen when the quick read is taken away. Give a cushion of 5 to 10yds and the QB just plays pitch-and-catch with the open receivers. Call a 30yd post route and the pass rush has a chance to get to the QB. On a 5yd dump off? No way.

Given the insanity of personnel decisions last year, you could be absolutely right that they`ll rotate Foley out on passing downs. Maybe Ben Ishola`s ready for a breakout season. Maybe they want to take advantage of Huntley`s speed and use him at rush end. Maybe they`ll also start BJ Hall at QB to run the Wildcat and use Ricky Ray to hold for placekicks.



I don't have a problem with Ricky. I just think he will be more effective in a rotation. All defensive ends play against the same quarterbacks. As for the tackle stats it speaks to how much time that defense was on the field more than ability. It is not a good thing when your DE has 70 tackles.

[AngeloV]

It is not a good thing when your DE has 70 tackles.

How do you figure that one? Wouldn't a DE's tackles be closer to the line of scrimmage than say, a DB's tackles?

Having said that, Foley also had a lot of tackles when our genius DC decided to drop him back to LB and go wit a 3 man rush in all the Montreal games. Foley is a stud and will not be rotated. May come out every now and again for a breather, but will not be a rotation player.

[Argonauter]

Phone interview with Wayne Smith (http://argonauts.ca/video/index/id/63639%20)

[paulwoods13]

Foley also had 69 tackles, which is phenomenal for a DE. That ranked him 14th in the league. The closest DE in tackles had almost 40% LESS.

But let`s talk about the sacks. Did you notice that Foley tied for the team lead in sacks last year? The Argos other DE had three - - should that guy even be invited to camp this year?

The low sack totals last year were a direct result of the soft coverage of the secondary. If the QB takes a three step drop and lets it go, do you think it`s realistic to expect ANYONE to get pressure on the QB?

QB takes one step...two steps....three steps...

Foley takes one step...two steps...beats the OT...beats the RB...three steps - - too late, the ball`s already gone.

Sacks happen when the quick read is taken away. Give a cushion of 5 to 10yds and the QB just plays pitch-and-catch with the open receivers. Call a 30yd post route and the pass rush has a chance to get to the QB. On a 5yd dump off? No way.

Given the insanity of personnel decisions last year, you could be absolutely right that they`ll rotate Foley out on passing downs. Maybe Ben Ishola`s ready for a breakout season. Maybe they want to take advantage of Huntley`s speed and use him at rush end. Maybe they`ll also start BJ Hall at QB to run the Wildcat and use Ricky Ray to hold for placekicks.

I agree with all of this except the deliberately insane last paragraph. Nonetheless, even though he will start and play the vast majority of downs, I do believe Foley -- and all the d-linemen -- need to be rotated throughout the game. Fresh pass rushers are one of the absolute keys to strong defence in this league. The Argo D of the last two years had a lot of things wrong with it, but one thing I liked was dressing Buzbee and rotating him in fairly regularly to give guys a breather. Speaking of which, has he re-signed? I'd like to see him brought back for a third season.

[OV Argo]

I agree with all of this except the deliberately insane last paragraph. Nonetheless, even though he will start and play the vast majority of downs, I do believe Foley -- and all the d-linemen -- need to be rotated throughout the game. Fresh pass rushers are one of the absolute keys to strong defence in this league. The Argo D of the last two years had a lot of things wrong with it, but one thing I liked was dressing Buzbee and rotating him in fairly regularly to give guys a breather. Speaking of which, has he re-signed? I'd like to see him brought back for a third season.

Of course Foley might be taken out for a breather once in awhile; and subbing in fresh D-linemen or any other D players can be a smart thing at times IMO; however - the point being discussed here - i think - is which D players are candidates to be subbed in and out a lot for different looks, or to get some fresh legs in there; and IMO - your best defensive player is the least likely candidate to be one of those subbed guys often - he should be on the field as much as possible; Foley did not have great sack stats last year, but he still was the team leader there and he has been at the top of CFL sack stats in the past; and he also led ALL CFL D-Linemen in tackles by a huge, whopping margin last season - because he makes plays on D. RoRo seems to thing Foley should or will be taken out some next season and play more as a rotation guy - could be i guess; but Jones or whoever would make such a call better have a real good reason or some new superstar type D player to replace Foley when he is taken out.

And IMO - what's kinda sad about last year and in agreeing that D-Linemen should be subbed for some to get fresh troops in, is that it didn't seem to happen that much with Huntley and Wroten when they were not playing that strong game in and game out; Buzbee got in some - but he's more a DE and not a real big DT type; but why was Alexandre not dressed and given a shot at some playing time when DT was not a strong position? Jones went with a lot of subbing of D players and particularly with NIs being shuffled in and out of the Stamps D to get the 7th NI in, instead of going with a full-time Canadian there; i hope he is willing to give the likes of Alexandre or Matt (& Tristan) Black, or maybe a good young D player draft pick some shots on the Argos D this season.

[Area 51]

Of course Foley might be taken out for a breather once in awhile; and subbing in fresh D-linemen or any other D players can be a smart thing at times IMO; however - the point being discussed here - i think - is which D players are candidates to be subbed in and out a lot for different looks, or to get some fresh legs in there; and IMO - your best defensive player is the least likely candidate to be one of those subbed guys often - he should be on the field as much as possible; Foley did not have great sack stats last year, but he still was the team leader there and he has been at the top of CFL sack stats in the past; and he also led ALL CFL D-Linemen in tackles by a huge, whopping margin last season - because he makes plays on D. RoRo seems to thing Foley should or will be taken out some next season and play more as a rotation guy - could be i guess; but Jones or whoever would make such a call better have a real good reason or some new superstar type D player to replace Foley when he is taken out.

And IMO - what's kinda sad about last year and in agreeing that D-Linemen should be subbed for some to get fresh troops in, is that it didn't seem to happen that much with Huntley and Wroten when they were not playing that strong game in and game out; Buzbee got in some - but he's more a DE and not a real big DT type; but why was Alexandre not dressed and given a shot at some playing time when DT was not a strong position? Jones went with a lot of subbing of D players and particularly with NIs being shuffled in and out of the Stamps D to get the 7th NI in, instead of going with a full-time Canadian there; i hope he is willing to give the likes of Alexandre or Matt (& Tristan) Black, or maybe a good young D player draft pick some shots on the Argos D this season.



Keep in mind what kind of shape Foley is in and his conditioning level compared to an average DLineman like, say, Wroten.

But sometimes making substitutions with the idea of taking a guy out for a "breather" or when guys are coming in and out every other play to match up against the run/pass scenario ends up being counter-productive. Especially when the defensive coaching staff has no idea what's going on and is running guys out late just as the offence is about to break the huddle. A 40 or 50yd sprint from the sideline to get to your position in time and then try and beat an OLineman with a pass rush move. That kind of little thing doesn't show up on tv, but sitting in the stands last year watching constant mismanagement like this got so frustrating.

As for Alexandre not playing at all last year - - there were two games where Toronto played one man short because they didn't have enough Canadians to dress. Meanwhile, a rookie like Alexandre sits on the PR. Let's play shorthanded instead of bringing in one of the young guys to see what he can do, if not on D then at least give him some time on ST. Where was the logic?

And now seeing posts calling for the Argos best defensive player and best Canadian to be used as a substitutional player, it's as if the idiocy of last year's coaching staff is contagious. That's all you need to know as to why football is struggling so badly to survive in Toronto.

[RoRoYoBoat]

You two related ? Ricky Foley is middle of the pack DE with the bonus of his NI status. We will be revisiting your comments this season :)

[Area 51]

You two related ? Ricky Foley is middle of the pack DE with the bonus of his NI status. We will be revisiting your comments this season :)



Foley is the Argos top Canadian as well as their best defensive player. Let me know whenever you're ready to revisit that, PoPo.

[KCargosfan]

Having said that, Foley also had a lot of tackles when our genius DC decided to drop him back to LB and go wit a 3 man rush in all the Montreal games.

That was one of the most frustrating things to watch was one of the top DEs in the league drop back while Calvillo just picked us apart.

BTW -- with Baggs cut, is Foley now the top paid defensive player in the league?

[OV Argo]

You two related ? Ricky Foley is middle of the pack DE with the bonus of his NI status. We will be revisiting your comments this season :)


You're serious with that comment? If so, frickin' unbelieveable.

[RoRoYoBoat]

We will see this season if Foley is part of a rotation. What is "unbelieveable" about that ? Reading some of these posts you'd think we are talking about Cameron Wake. We need more than 9 sacks from our defensive ends.

And according to JB that will be decided by training camp. So maybe you can believe the GM...


Although the Argonauts have returning veterans Ricky Foley and Ronald Flemons, general manager Jim Barker didn’t rule out the possibility of adding Stewart.

“We’ll know a lot more after training camp,” Barker said. “At this point, we need to get younger at a lot of places. But Stewart would be a great option, if he’s still available. I think he can play. And he has been productive.”


Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/Former+Stewart+future+hold/6406230/story.html#ixzz1r4tBd4Ro

[R.J]

You're serious with that comment? If so, frickin' unbelieveable.
I concur with Area 51 and OV, I really can't believe my eyes in reading how some view Ricky Foley, am I watching a completely different game and player than anyone else or something ?

[AngeloV]

I concur with Area 51 and OV, I really can't believe my eyes in reading how some view Ricky Foley, am I watching a completely different game and player than anyone else or something ?

No you are not. It's pretty obvious to me that some people look at stats as the be all and end all of productivity. This isn't baseball. It's pretty obvious to me that schemes have a lot to do with productivity (which BTW unlike a lot on here, I'm not ready to give up on Huntley either). Some things said on here just kind of make you give your head a shake.

[Area 51]

We will see this season if Foley is part of a rotation. What is "unbelieveable" about that ?



I'd really like to know how you'd rank the Argos top seven Canadians.

In your estimation does Wayne Smith become the Argos top NI? Is Joe Eppele in the top three NIs?

Looking forward to your assessement and insight.

[ArgoGabe22]

I agree with Area 51 on this one. Might be the first or second time!

[RoRoYoBoat]

The Canadian content of the team is a whole conversation in intself but our top Canadian is Noel but ratio wise I think Foley, VZ and Durie are pretty similar in terms of "value" to the team. Rotating a guy has nothing to do with ability it has to do with how much energy you expect a guy to expand during a football game. I'f rather see two guys get half the reps and get better production and the added stability to deal with injuries.

You pay a defensive end to go after the QB and when your two ends combine for nine sacks and you give up 500 points, your not going to win too many ball games. Now some of that will improve with an offense that is on the field longer and with Chris Jones coaching the defense but the reality of it is that Foley will need to show more this year and don't be shocked if he is part of a 3 man rotation on the dline. We need at least 20 sacks from our Defensive Ends and if it takes 3 guys to accomplish that I don't really care. Our Dline combined for 19 sacks being on the field more than any other team and BC with a real offense managed to get 30.
You have to get your pressure from somewhere, now Jones likes to stunt his LB more than most so we will have to see how it is all put together but expect change on that defense it won't look anything like it did last year thank God !

[R.J]

The Canadian content of the team is a whole conversation in intself but our top Canadian is Noel but ratio wise I think Foley, VZ and Durie are pretty similar in terms of "value" to the team. Rotating a guy has nothing to do with ability it has to do with how much energy you expect a guy to expand during a football game. I'f rather see two guys get half the reps and get better production and the added stability to deal with injuries.

You pay a defensive end to go after the QB and when your two ends combine for nine sacks and you give up 500 points, your not going to win too many ball games. Now some of that will improve with an offense that is on the field longer and with Chris Jones coaching the defense but the reality of it is that Foley will need to show more this year and don't be shocked if he is part of a 3 man rotation on the dline. We need at least 20 sacks from our Defensive Ends and if it takes 3 guys to accomplish that I don't really care. Our Dline combined for 19 sacks being on the field more than any other team and BC with a real offense managed to get 30.
You have to get your pressure from somewhere, now Jones likes to stunt his LB more than most so we will have to see how it is all put together but expect change on that defense it won't look anything like it did last year thank God !
You clearly weren't watching the same games/season as the rest of us, you do realize that for the majority of the season Foley was used more as a positional linebacker right ?
Foley's job was more about coverage than pressuring the QB, he was all over the field all season long, I can think of over 15 games in which he was chasing more receivers and running backs than going after the QB.
IMO if you allow Foley to do the job he was originally signed here to do and you will see the player that he is. (Huntley, Wroten and Flemons all need to be let go of though, they proved their worth already).

[OV Argo]

You clearly weren't watching the same games/season as the rest of us, you do realize that for the majority of the season Foley was used more as a positional linebacker right ?
Foley's job was more about coverage than pressuring the QB, he was all over the field all season long, I can think of over 15 games in which he was chasing more receivers and running backs than going after the QB.
IMO if you allow Foley to do the job he was originally signed here to do and you will see the player that he is. (Huntley, Wroten and Flemons all need to be let go of though, they proved their worth already).

Umm - I believe you're over-stating (by quite a bit) how much Foley was dropping or playing LB last year - sure, it was some, but most of the time he was lined-up as a DE who rushed the passer (and ended up making a ton of tackles for a DE; again - he led all D-Linemen in the league in tackles by a whopping margin); but I get your point and agree about style of D and players around you affecting an indivdiual player's performance; we shall see how Foley does this year and what his role is like in the new Jones defence; and maybe RoRo is fairly new to the CFL or only follows the Argos or something, but to not be aware that Foley has been a top pass rusher and amongst sack leaders (FYI - tied for CFL lead in sacks in 09) in the CFL before ... ???

[OV Argo]

If there was to be a move in terms of less playing time for some guys (particularly NIs) or becoming more of a rotation or situational player, and that might surprise or shock some - I'll bet it will be on offence and maybe Durie (discussed a bit before here maybe, but since the topic is up again sort of - the Als offence with Millanovich last year played all imports at receiver and a player who subbed in quite a bit was NI Kerry Carter - as a fullback/H-back/ tight end for different sets; and he's a quite a bit bigger player than Durie (but like him a former star tailback by trade; converted into another role in the CFL) - Durie would not be a fit as a big body H-back type; but maybe the new Argos offence will be a lot different with Millanovich fully in charge, compared to the one he helped run as the OC in Montreal; and even if Durie does play a full-time 5 pack receiver role, I'll wager that will mean other NI receivers (like Watt, Bradwell or Feoli-Gudino - whoever makes the roster) will be back-ups who rarely see the field on offence (but I hope not and i also hope it comes down to honest TC competition as opposed to the pencilled-in garbage).

[RoRoYoBoat]

I've been following the CFL for 3 decades, attended over well over a 100 games and yes Foley had ONE great season in BC, what he did 3 years ago is not relevent in football if you use that then you better use his stats last year... again I have no problem with him. I just don't consider him an elite rush end. All defensive ends are asked to drop in coverage nowdays. Foley is no different. I am glad he's getting an opportunity to show his stuff this year a lot of guys are not getting that opportunity.

[Nob]

RoRo, while I understand your logic, and credentials, the fact is that the Argos don't have any better DL. Not last year, and they certainly haven't signed any for this year. He has to play. He's very good, the best DL they have AND he is a NI. And no, I don't think that he gets to start solely because he is Canadian. He is good enough, regardless of passport. Being a Canadian is a bonus to help with the ratio.

The problem I have with your initial argument is that you think Matt Black can be a starter, over Foley. Stats, and history, don't support that.

The DL stunk last year. Foley was the best of a bad lot, but at least has shown potential to repeat past success. He has the credentials to do it.

[KCargosfan]

If there was to be a move in terms of less playing time for some guys (particularly NIs) or becoming more of a rotation or situational player, and that might surprise or shock some - I'll bet it will be on offence and maybe Durie (discussed a bit before here maybe, but since the topic is up again sort of - the Als offence with Millanovich last year played all imports at receiver and a player who subbed in quite a bit was NI Kerry Carter - as a fullback/H-back/ tight end for different sets; and he's a quite a bit bigger player than Durie (but like him a former star tailback by trade; converted into another role in the CFL) - Durie would not be a fit as a big body H-back type; but maybe the new Argos offence will be a lot different with Millanovich fully in charge, compared to the one he helped run as the OC in Montreal; and even if Durie does play a full-time 5 pack receiver role, I'll wager that will mean other NI receivers (like Watt, Bradwell or Feoli-Gudino - whoever makes the roster) will be back-ups who rarely see the field on offence (but I hope not and i also hope it comes down to honest TC competition as opposed to the pencilled-in garbage).

We just signed Durie to a six-figure contract, doubt that means he is going to get less playing time. If anything, Durie should be marked in the starting lineup with a permanent marker.

[ArgoRavi]

We just signed Durie to a six-figure contract, doubt that means he is going to get less playing time. If anything, Durie should be marked in the starting lineup with a permanent marker.

It could be that OV just doesn't want to get his hopes up but there is little reason to believe that Durie won't be a major part of the offence this season. I expect Spencer Watt to also have a significant role.

[RoRoYoBoat]

Anyone who listened to the TSN's interview with Wayne Smith tonight, the "plan" is to go with an all Canadian Oline with Smith playing left tackle. if that can be accomplished then you have a lot of flexibility.

[Area 51]

Anyone who listened to the TSN's interview with Wayne Smith tonight, the "plan" is to go with an all Canadian Oline with Smith playing left tackle. if that can be accomplished then you have a lot of flexibility.



Is that Wayne Smith's "plan" or is it Milanovich's "plan"? Let's see if Smith can A) beat out Coughman for the job and then B) stay healthy. His track record hasn't inspired much confidence for the latter.

But if the "plan" actually comes to fruition, that means Foley and Durie will be the other two NI starters. Kackert and Boyd could play together in the backfield with one as the FB, and it would be an all import LB, secondary and WR corp.

Oh wait, sorry BoBo - - I forgot you mentioned earlier that Foley won't be a full time player. I still can't figure out who your three man rotation is going to be on the DLine. Do you think they'll "upgrade" Foley with Zander Robinson? What about moving EJ Kuale back to play DE - - he might be even better there than he was at LB. There must be a few elite rush ends around somewhere. Or do you think they'll just go with a 3 man front of Wroten, Huntley and Flemons when they take out Foley?

Taking your best pass rusher out of the game in order to generate more sacks. That's so crazy, it just might work!

[Mulder]

Is that Wayne Smith's "plan" or is it Milanovich's "plan"? Let's see if Smith can A) beat out Coughman for the job and then B) stay healthy. His track record hasn't inspired much confidence for the latter.

But if the "plan" actually comes to fruition, that means Foley and Durie will be the other two NI starters. Kackert and Boyd could play together in the backfield with one as the FB, and it would be an all import LB, secondary and WR corp.

Oh wait, sorry BoBo - - I forgot you mentioned earlier that Foley won't be a full time player. I still can't figure out who your three man rotation is going to be on the DLine. Do you think they'll "upgrade" Foley with Zander Robinson? What about moving EJ Kuale back to play DE - - he might be even better there than he was at LB. There must be a few elite rush ends around somewhere. Or do you think they'll just go with a 3 man front of Wroten, Huntley and Flemons when they take out Foley?

Taking your best pass rusher out of the game in order to generate more sacks. That's so crazy, it just might work!


Is there any way you can learn to criticize without being so negative? There is also much better ways to question someone's opinion without disrespecting them.

[jerrym]

I agree totally with Mulder. What I found so great with this website when I found it last year, is the respect for others' opinions that is far too often not found on other websites. Let's keep it that way.

[OV Argo]

It could be that OV just doesn't want to get his hopes up but there is little reason to believe that Durie won't be a major part of the offence this season. I expect Spencer Watt to also have a significant role.


IF - there is real competition at receiver in TC Ravi, who knows, could be 3 starting NIs (out of Durie, Watt, Bradwell, Feoli-Gudino, maybe a draft pick) in the receiver 5 pack set, if 3 of those guys had great TCs; IMO - there could one or none if it's more of the pencilled-in garbage we often see out of CFL personnel thinkers, if most of the receiver spots are reserved for imports; Barnes might be a lock for a starting spot maybe; and I won't be surprised to see the likes of Owens and Mann pencilled in high on the depth chart to begin with and the team has a number of young import receivers who will be given lots of chances to compete in TC.

As far as OT - could be Wayne Smith could put it together again to start at OT; but there might be lots of possible competition - Parenteau, Eppelle, maybe Holmes shows for TC - again - have lots of real competition - shouldn`t be just between Smith and Coughman.

[RoRoYoBoat]

I don't need this. I came here to talk Argonaut football, not exchange with a socially dysfunctional poster like Area51. I am not going to subject the rest of you to keyboard jousting with a member like that. Enjoy the season folks. Thank you.

[paulwoods13]

IF - there is real competition at receiver in TC Ravi, who knows, could be 3 starting NIs (out of Durie, Watt, Bradwell, Feoli-Gudino, maybe a draft pick) in the receiver 5 pack set, if 3 of those guys had great TCs; IMO - there could one or none if it's more of the pencilled-in garbage we often see out of CFL personnel thinkers, if most of the receiver spots are reserved for imports; Barnes might be a lock for a starting spot maybe; and I won't be surprised to see the likes of Owens and Mann pencilled in high on the depth chart to begin with and the team has a number of young import receivers who will be given lots of chances to compete in TC.

OV, I would bet you that (assuming all receivers stay healthy), the only true locks to start are Barnes and Durie. I think Milanovich is smart enough to know that they are his two best and most experienced pass-catchers. I know you are cynical on how NIs are deployed around the league but it would be nuts not to start Durie.

[Argonauter]

Wayne Smith interview on TSN Radio (http://www2.tsn.ca/window/podcastcentre/#id=13)

[AngeloV]

OV, I would bet you that (assuming all receivers stay healthy), the only true locks to start are Barnes and Durie. I think Milanovich is smart enough to know that they are his two best and most experienced pass-catchers. I know you are cynical on how NIs are deployed around the league but it would be nuts not to start Durie.

I agree Paul. And I'm willing to bet that Watt will also get plenty of playing time. People on here just don't seem to realize how young he is.


I don't need this. I came here to talk Argonaut football, not exchange with a socially dysfunctional poster like Area51. I am not going to subject the rest of you to keyboard jousting with a member like that. Enjoy the season folks. Thank you.

Don't leave because of 1 poster. Just choose to ignore his posts.

[Nob]

Ang - I hope that you're right and I'm wrong. I have been on record saying that I am not a Watt fan. Yes, he is young, but I don't see him being any better after 2 full seasons than when he started out as a rookie. Maybe a new coaching staff, and a third training camp, will turn things around for him. I'm not as optimistic.

It should be interesting to see how the NI's get deployed this year. At least the NI talent is improving.

As for the negativity......sometimes us sports fans get a little too passionate about our pastime. I don't think any of us know each other well enough to be critical of other's thoughts, or to take another persons comments that seriously. We can't all be "Saggy Naggy's", can we........?

[OV Argo]

I think Feoli-Gudino could be the best young NI receiver the Argos have - he'll have to impress in TC of course - but career CIS receiving accomplishments wise, he did way more than Watt or Bradwell; and the Argos could still use the #9 pick on a receiver - love to see them get Charbonneau-Campeau or Bamba; but they may be thinking other positions if they are satisfied with the NI receivers they have now for TC; Matt Norman at #9 might be nice - good young O-Lineman to develop and he could push for playing time right away at OG.

And if RoRo is right that the plan is go with 5 NIs on the O-Line (like the Als have lately), IMO that will greatly decrease the chances of more than one NI playing much at receiver for the Argos this season; but again - i hope these decisions are based on tough TC competition.

[KCargosfan]

OV, I would bet you that (assuming all receivers stay healthy), the only true locks to start are Barnes and Durie. I think Milanovich is smart enough to know that they are his two best and most experienced pass-catchers.

Probably Owens as well. We're not going to have a $130-$150K kick returner.

[AngeloV]

I think Feoli-Gudino could be the best young NI receiver the Argos have - he'll have to impress in TC of course - but career CIS receiving accomplishments wise, he did way more than Watt or Bradwell;

To be fair, Feoli-Gudino is only 1 year younger than Bradwell and 18 months older than Watt, despite the fact that Bradwell and Watt have played 3 and 2 years in the league respectively. He was a more mature CIS player than either of them ever were, so he should have better accomplishments career wise. As I've stated before, Watt won't turn 23 until after this season is over, and will have finished his 3rd pro season at an age where most CIS players are finishing their CIS careers. I still believe that Watt is going to have the best pro career out of all our NI receivers with the possible exception of Durie.

[Nob]

Did I once read that Watt was a track guy that converted to football? If that's the case then his youth may not mean as much if he lags that far behind in football experience.

[RoRoYoBoat]

Probably Owens as well. We're not going to have a $130-$150K kick returner.

I can't see Owens being one of the four starting receivers this season. I think Milanovich is going to go with bigger targets, it will allow Ray to spot his targets quicker and increase his throwing area. I could see Owens being used as a fifth receiver and obviously he will return kicks. Barker probably will leave his contract as is this year but as the team becomes more successful and the money needs to be spread around, some adjustments will need to be made.

[OV Argo]

If Owens ends up one of the starting receivers in the 5 pack - hopefully it will be because he had a great TC and caught everything thrown his way; to pencil him in as a starting receiver just because he has a big contract and so, well, we better justify it with playing time = sign of a stupid football team IMO; and a great dual returner who can also come in and play receiver some is worth a lot of buck$ in the CFL - IMO; hopefully, the emphasis at receiver is on guys who can run very good patterns, and who have very good hands; there is still room for maybe one burner type in the 5 pack; Owens and Watt are pretty speedy receivers - not sure who else of the newer guys is real fast; but IMO again - the real big need at receiver is at least one real clutch, get-open/ great hands guy - not sure any of the current Argo receivers are of that calibre based on what I've seen of them in the CFL (Barnes had a nice season last year - not sure he is a consistent great hands / big play guy though); hopefully at least one emerges in TC.

[RoRoYoBoat]

If Owens ends up one of the starting receivers in the 5 pack - hopefully it will be because he had a great TC and caught everything thrown his way; to pencil him in as a starting receiver just because he has a big contract and so, well, we better justify it with playing time = sign of a stupid football team IMO; and a great dual returner who can also come in and play receiver some is worth a lot of buck$ in the CFL - IMO; hopefully, the emphasis at receiver is on guys who can run very good patterns, and who have very good hands; there is still room for maybe one burner type in the 5 pack; Owens and Watt are pretty speedy receivers - not sure who else of the newer guys is real fast; but IMO again - the real big need at receiver is at least one real clutch, get-open/ great hands guy - not sure any of the current Argo receivers are of that calibre based on what I've seen of them in the CFL (Barnes had a nice season last year - not sure he is a consistent great hands / big play guy though); hopefully at least one emerges in TC.

There are 16 receivers currently on the off season roster and a lot of the prospects are big guys from big programs. There will be plenty of competition. Maybe we will be lucky and we get at least one reporter covering mini-camp.

[KCargosfan]

If Owens ends up one of the starting receivers in the 5 pack - hopefully it will be because he had a great TC and caught everything thrown his way; to pencil him in as a starting receiver just because he has a big contract and so, well, we better justify it with playing time = sign of a stupid football team IMO; and a great dual returner who can also come in and play receiver some is worth a lot of buck$ in the CFL - IMO;

I agree, but we aren't paying Owens a boatload of money to sit on the bench 90 percent of the game. Based on what I've seen with my own eyes, I think Samie Parker is better than Owens AS A RECEIVER and probably a little faster. Camp will be interesting, as Parker could drop everything and get cut, but I think he will be an asset.

[jerrym]

After watching Feoli-Gudino in college and especially the Vanier Cup, I think he has the potential to be the possession receiver that they so sorely need - the kind of guy who rarely drops the ball when it gets to him

[Argocister]

After watching Feoli-Gudino in college and especially the Vanier Cup, I think he has the potential to be the possession receiver that they so sorely need - the kind of guy who rarely drops the ball when it gets to him
I'll second that.