Injuries

[paulwoods13]

Zic is reporting that Bourke injured a finger, McEwen is out two to three weeks with knee injury, and Jones might have to have season-ending surgery. Injuries are inevitable but these ones in particular are painful and frustrating.

[Will]

Of that list though, Bourke is the only one I'm concerned with.

BTW, here is the specific quote:

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/06/04/berry-hopes-to-revive-career-with-argos


CAMP TAKES ITS TOLL


GUELPH — One first-round pick is wearing a cast around his wrist, while yet another first-rounder is walking around with the assistance of crutches.


It has been one hellish camp for the Argos, who lost free-agent offensive lineman Josh Bourke early in the team’s mock game Saturday with a finger injury.


There was no immediate word on Bourke’s status.


Sean McEwen, who was Toronto’s first-round selection last season, was wearing a knee brace to accompany his crutches after he was hurt in Friday’s practice.


McEwen may miss two weeks, perhaps three, which means he’s unlikely to play in any of the team’s two pre-season games.


With the regular season to open on June 23, the Calgary product may not be available.


This year’s first-round pick, Brian Jones, may miss the entire season if surgery is required to repair his right wrist.


Both A.J. Jefferson and Daryl Waud weren’t able to take part in the mock game, in all likelihood because each tweaked something.


There’s no on-field activity scheduled on Sunday, though many players have already booked time with the team’s training staff.




Coombs, Bulcke and Spencer are also nursing injuries. Hopefully they are all minor.

Bourke came to the training table, went back out, returned to the training table and then was presumably told to keep out.

[paulwoods13]

I agree Bourke is the most concerning, but missing both preseason games would really slow SMc's development. I've been hoping he could start as a rookie but that is far less likely if he doesn't get any game action. Jones is currently in the nice to have category but if we were to run into injuries later we'd be wishing he wasn't out for the season (if that in fact is what happens).

[Will]

It is definitely unfortunate with McEwen given that Milanovich said that he was happy with McEwen's progress. I just think the Argos have a better Plan B versus if Bourke is out long-term.

[sthfan1988]

Bourke won't be out. They popped his finger back, put a glove and taped it up and good to go. Yesterday was entertaining. Our receivers are sick. Gurley made a great catch and you could feel the emotion from the receiving corps. Injuries will happen, but it's a 20 week season. Can't wait to see what my seats are like next Saturday. See everyone there.

[jerrym]

Bourke won't be out. They popped his finger back, put a glove and taped it up and good to go.

Great to hear he'll be available.

[AngeloV]

Bourke won't be out. They popped his finger back, put a glove and taped it up and good to go. Yesterday was entertaining. Our receivers are sick. Gurley made a great catch and you could feel the emotion from the receiving corps. Injuries will happen, but it's a 20 week season. Can't wait to see what my seats are like next Saturday. See everyone there.

Gurley's catch was very good. I was also very impressed with the day Llevi Noel had. Edwin Baker also had some great acceleration out of the backfield, and finally, Andrie Durie looked to be in good form.

Although Gurley made that catch over Aaron Berry, I thought Berry looked the best out of the newcomers in the secondary. He was the 2nd best on the day after Owusu-Ansah.

[R.J]

Gurley's catch was very good. I was also very impressed with the day Llevi Noel had. Edwin Baker also had some great acceleration out of the backfield, and finally, Andrie Durie looked to be in good form.

Although Gurley made that catch over Aaron Berry, I thought Berry looked the best out of the newcomers in the secondary. He was the 2nd best on the day after Owusu-Ansah.
As a whole how was the mock game ?

[AngeloV]

As a whole how was the mock game ?

Not as long as last season's. They ran more situational things than anything. I enjoyed it.

Admittedly, I really only watched the QB's, receivers, backs and DB's. Hard to pay attention to the lines and the LB's, because there is no tackling allowed.

[KCargosfan]

Not as long as last season's. They ran more situational things than anything. I enjoyed it.

Admittedly, I really only watched the QB's, receivers, backs and DB's. Hard to pay attention to the lines and the LB's, because there is no tackling allowed.

How did the back-up QBs fare?

[Shatto]

To the best of my recollection, the following players sat out all or part of the Mock Game because of some form of injury--Bourke, Buicke, Coombs, Davis, B Jones, McEwen, Jefferson, Spencer, W Smith, Waud and Wylie. Most of the injuries, like Bourke's dislocated finger, appeared to be minor in nature. Other than Davis, who is probably out for the year and McEwen who had a walking cast and crutches, the rest looked like could have played if this had been regular game.
Both DL's Bishop and Watson seemed to have a good power rush at the snap of the ball and DE Hazell was very quick and penetrated into the backfield nearly every time.

[doubleblue]

Shatto said:

Both DL's Bishop and Watson seemed to have a good power rush at the snap of the ball and DE Hazell was very quick and penetrated into the backfield nearly every time.

I have been intrigued by this guy DE Hazel, listed at 6'5 and only 227 lbs. Seems a little light to play DE even in the CFL. I suppose if he shows an outstanding ability to rush the QB he could be kept to rotate with Hickman (or who ever) on passing downs at the Import DE spot on the D-Line. With from all appearances, the Argos will start 9 Canadians, that leaves spots for 4 DI's. DL, DB, RB and WR. Where am I going wrong here?

[Wobbler]

We put Bulcke, Jefferson, and Spencer on the 6 game IR yesterday. I think we'll be starting 8 NATs for the time being.

[paulwoods13]

We put Bulcke, Jefferson, and Spencer on the 6 game IR yesterday. I think we'll be starting 8 NATs for the time being.

Brutal news about Bulcke. We have good depth at the other two positions but at DT we will have to play two INTs regularly. Agree we are probably starting eight NATs rather than nine: three on D (altho Waud will play a lot), four o-linemen and one receiver.

[AngeloV]

Brutal news about Bulcke. We have good depth at the other two positions but at DT we will have to play two INTs regularly. Agree we are probably starting eight NATs rather than nine: three on D (altho Waud will play a lot), four o-linemen and one receiver.

The Cam Walker looked on Saturday, I wouldn't count him out from the rotation either. Not starting, but I see playing time in his future.

[Wobbler]

I think Waud was going to get some reps regardless, but now either Bishop or Watson will definitely make the team. Has anyone formed an opinion about either?

If Bulcke's health proves unreliable (yes, I'm being pessimistic), it would be nice to find another path to starting nine NATs. I agree with you, Paul - that's where we want to be. Sans Bulcke, who is closest to being #9 without significantly disrupting our projected lineup? Watman/McEwen/Smith on the OL (displacing Van Roten) followed by Miles at MLB (displacing McFadden), I suppose...

[KCargosfan]

I think Waud was going to get some reps regardless, but now either Bishop or Watson will definitely make the team. Has anyone formed an opinion about either?

If Bulcke's health proves unreliable (yes, I'm being pessimistic), it would be nice to find another path to starting nine NATs. I agree with you, Paul - that's where we want to be. Sans Bulcke, who is closest to being #9 without significantly disrupting our projected lineup? Watman/McEwen/Smith on the OL (displacing Van Roten) followed by Miles at MLB (displacing McFadden), I suppose...

I was under the impression gobs only started 7 Canadians? Perhaps I was misinformed?

[Will]

Well we sorta knew Bulcke came with a bag of goods injury wise.

[paulwoods13]

The Cam Walker looked on Saturday, I wouldn't count him out from the rotation either. Not starting, but I see playing time in his future.

Absolutely -- he looked great. But IMO he's more of a DE than a DT.

[paulwoods13]

I think Waud was going to get some reps regardless, but now either Bishop or Watson will definitely make the team. Has anyone formed an opinion about either?

If Bulcke's health proves unreliable (yes, I'm being pessimistic), it would be nice to find another path to starting nine NATs. I agree with you, Paul - that's where we want to be. Sans Bulcke, who is closest to being #9 without significantly disrupting our projected lineup? Watman/McEwen/Smith on the OL (displacing Van Roten) followed by Miles at MLB (displacing McFadden), I suppose...

Waud will play for sure. The clearest path to nine IMO is on the o-line -- McEwen to replace Watman, who slides to RG. Miles could play at MLB but it's possible McFadden is better at this point -- let's see him play a few games.

[Wobbler]

Both DL's Bishop and Watson seemed to have a good power rush at the snap of the ball
Sorry I missed your comment (5 posts above mine!). It's nice to hear that both of those guys looked good.

[AngeloV]

Absolutely -- he looked great. But IMO he's more of a DE than a DT.

Absolutely, but on the rotation, he may be replacing Hickman sometimes.

From what I saw on Saturday, and I know it was not much to go by, I think the Argos will go 3 down front on a lot of passing downs, which will get Miles on the field as well. I don't think there is anything to worry about ratio wise.

[TheHammer]

Of that list though, Bourke is the only one I'm concerned with.

BTW, here is the specific quote:

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/06/04/berry-hopes-to-revive-career-with-argos



Coombs, Bulcke and Spencer are also nursing injuries. Hopefully they are all minor.

Bourke came to the training table, went back out, returned to the training table and then was presumably told to keep out.

Not surprised. He's had a history on the Injury List.

[AngeloV]

I dropped by practice this morning, and if today is any indication, looks like Miles will start at MLB and Joshua Mitchell will move to safety. Things could change obviously, and admittedly, they did a lot of ST's today. I expect Bates to replace Elliott in the line-up as well based on the fact that he was playing up on KO return team.

Jermaine Gabriel was there in practice jersey, but no helmet and did not participate, but I see the fact he was there as a great sign.

Argos were also practicing with the white helmets today, so I expect to see the head to toe white look.

[gilthethrill]

I dropped by practice this morning, and if today is any indication, looks like Miles will start at MLB and Joshua Mitchell will move to safety. Things could change obviously, and admittedly, they did a lot of ST's today. I expect Bates to replace Elliott in the line-up as well based on the fact that he was playing up on KO return team.

Jermaine Gabriel was there in practice jersey, but no helmet and did not participate, but I see the fact he was there as a great sign.

Argos were also practicing with the white helmets today, so I expect to see the head to toe white look.

Miles at MLB is not a bad thing. Nice to have a big target like Bates able to replace Elliott. With the East all winning except for the Argos, we can't afford to go 0-2. I don't feel that they will.

[AngeloV]

Miles at MLB is not a bad thing. Nice to have a big target like Bates able to replace Elliott. With the East all winning except for the Argos, we can't afford to go 0-2. I don't feel that they will.

To be clear, I don't think Bates will start on offence. Wallace Miles took Elliott's spot on O. Bates will likely back up.

[gilthethrill]

To be clear, I don't think Bates will start on offence. Wallace Miles took Elliott's spot on O. Bates will likely back up.

That's right, Wallace Miles is ahead of Bates.....I am still surprised he was signed.

[AngeloV]

That's right, Wallace Miles is ahead of Bates.....I am still surprised he was signed.

I am too, but he has looked pretty good, both in pre-season and game 1.

[Stevoman]

I dropped by practice this morning, and if today is any indication, looks like Miles will start at MLB and Joshua Mitchell will move to safety. Things could change obviously, and admittedly, they did a lot of ST's today. I expect Bates to replace Elliott in the line-up as well based on the fact that he was playing up on KO return team.

Jermaine Gabriel was there in practice jersey, but no helmet and did not participate, but I see the fact he was there as a great sign.

Argos were also practicing with the white helmets today, so I expect to see the head to toe white look.

Thanks for the information and confirming the white helmets. I noticed them in a photo in an article the other day and wondered if they'd be all white like last year?

[paulwoods13]

Thanks for the information and confirming the white helmets. I noticed them in a photo in an article the other day and wondered if they'd be all white like last year?

I liked last year's all-white look but I will be very disappointed if we don't bust out white jerseys/Oxford pants at some point. I suppose it's too much to hope for the latter with Cambridge numbers, but I will keep on hoping anyway.

[marcwagz]

where do the argos practice?
is coombs still injured?

How is Durie doing, not sure if he got many reps in game 1.

[AngeloV]

where do the argos practice?
is coombs still injured?

How is Durie doing, not sure if he got many reps in game 1.

Argos practice at Downsview Park.
Coombs is not injured.
Durie was on the field a lot in Game 1, just didn't see the ball much.

[paulwoods13]

Argos practice at Downsview Park.
Coombs is not injured.
Durie was on the field a lot in Game 1, just didn't see the ball much.

I wouldn't characterize it as "a lot". I would bet he was off for far more snaps than he was on. We ran a lot of tight end sets, and Coombs also got some snaps.

[AngeloV]

I wouldn't characterize it as "a lot". I would bet he was off for far more snaps than he was on. We ran a lot of tight end sets, and Coombs also got some snaps.

I would say he was on the field more than Coombs though. I think he took more than half the offensive snaps.

[paulwoods13]

I would say he was on the field more than Coombs though. I think he took more than half the offensive snaps.

I would be surprised if that were the case altho you could be right. I saw tight ends a lot of the time. (Not that it helped to have them.)

It's too bad we don't have access to detailed stats showing things like snaps taken. NFL networks are starting to show this for receivers and backs -- I would love this added to the stats available during and after games.

[Wobbler]

Current 6-game IR:

- Bulcke
- Elliott (new)
- Gale (new)
- Gordon
- Jones
- Josey
- McFadden (new)
- Spencer
- Waud (new)

Jefferson appears to have been removed from the 6-game list, which is a spot of good news. Gale is obviously just "injured".

[paulwoods13]

Interesting that Gale went from PR to injured. Maybe someone (Sask?) tried to sign him?

Really too bad that we have lost our starting MLB and two guys who would have played regularly at DT for up to six games.

[Wobbler]

My guess was that he wasn't willing to spend more than a certain number of weeks earning a PR salary, and that'll pop on and off the 6-game list as needed to hit the arrangement. But who knows - maybe he actually injured himself in practice.

[AngeloV]

My guess was that he wasn't willing to spend more than a certain number of weeks earning a PR salary, and that'll pop on and off the 6-game list as needed to hit the arrangement. But who knows - maybe he actually injured himself in practice.

Looked fine on Sunday when I was there, not that he got any reps.

[Wobbler]

I should have known better than to trust the web site roster list. As per yesterday's depth chart, Jefferson is still on the 6 game list. Damn. An early return would have been terrific now that our injuries are piling up. The Keon Raymond signing looks better and better...

[argolio]

Should give Stubler more flexibility when AJ comes back. Hopefully that'll be weeks instead of longer.

[Wobbler]

Both Joe Rankin and Tracey Robertson, who were injured in last week's game, have been added to the six-game IR. Gabriel is on the one-game list.

Despite trading Gale, we now have eleven players on the six-game list... which seems kinda high for this early in the season. For comparison, our opponent tomorrow has one guy on theirs.

[paulwoods13]

Despite trading Gale, we now have eleven players on the six-game list... which seems kinda high for this early in the season. For comparison, our opponent tomorrow has one guy on theirs.

Owned by David Braley. Good to remember every now and then how fortunate we are to have owners willing to spend.

[Wobbler]

My impression is that all of our guys are legitimately hurt. Is your point that some of them have relatively minor issues and are only there to create cap space that we're willing to use?

[paulwoods13]

They may very well be hurt but the fact they have been six-gamed shows a willingness to spend that wasn't there in past years. If we go through the entire season averaging 10-12 guys on the six-game, that likely means spending above the cap by something like 20%. For better or worse, that seems to be the way things are done these days. Hamilton has had no compunction about stashing tons of depth on IR, where they get fully paid, and now we are doing the same.

[Wobbler]

Josh Mitchell, who was injured in the BC game, has been added to the 6 game IR. Fortunately we still "only" have 3 DBs on that list, since Jefferson was taken off.

[Argo]

They may very well be hurt but the fact they have been six-gamed shows a willingness to spend that wasn't there in past years. If we go through the entire season averaging 10-12 guys on the six-game, that likely means spending above the cap by something like 20%. For better or worse, that seems to be the way things are done these days. Hamilton has had no compunction about stashing tons of depth on IR, where they get fully paid, and now we are doing the same.

It's certainly nice to have the means to level the playing field.

[Will]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/argos?src=hash">#argos</a> have lost Akwasi Owusu Ansah, likely for the season with a torn pec. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFL?src=hash">#CFL</a></p>&mdash; Chris O&#39;Leary (@olearychris) <a href="https://twitter.com/olearychris/status/755157095486545920">July 18, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Wobbler]

It would be nice if we could dress the same group of guys in the secondary two games a in a row.

[Argo57]

Tough injury, never like to see anyone get hurt.
From a football point of view I always considered him to be one of the weaker DB's on the Argo roster TBH.

[1argoholic]

The older I get the more I hate hearing about the injuries. Had my fair share of work related injuries from the hairline down. haha. Landscaping does a body bad. So I can understand the frustration and dealing with getting better and wondering if you'll ever be back to 100%.

[mchesher03]

all worries about depth etc. aside, man it's gotta suck for these guys to train all off-season only get a few games in and be out for the remainder of the year. Hope he recovers and is able to play again (should he choose to of course). Pectoral injury sounds rough. At least having Jefferson back helps in the coverage game. Now that Gabriel is back into action, any talk whatsoever of moving Matt Black back to a corner position? For those who know more than I - how'd he do when put into that spot? For some reason I thought it was his natural spot. Would let us get another "National" in with Waud out for a few more weeks.

Anyhow hope Owusu Ansah recovers fully over the next year.

[AngeloV]

all worries about depth etc. aside, man it's gotta suck for these guys to train all off-season only get a few games in and be out for the remainder of the year. Hope he recovers and is able to play again (should he choose to of course). Pectoral injury sounds rough. At least having Jefferson back helps in the coverage game. Now that Gabriel is back into action, any talk whatsoever of moving Matt Black back to a corner position? For those who know more than I - how'd he do when put into that spot? For some reason I thought it was his natural spot. Would let us get another "National" in with Waud out for a few more weeks.

Anyhow hope Owusu Ansah recovers fully over the next year.

Black is a pretty good corner, but lacks size. For this reason, he would be more suited to the field corner spot. They only have 2 National DB's on their roster, so I doubt that they would both start. Too bad they still didn't have Shane Herbert, then it would be easy to start both Black and Gabriel in the secondary with Herbert backing up at both positions.

[R.J]

Smith is on the Pr and Ansah was our weakest link in the backfield so no big loss IMO. Gordon, Mitchell, and Rankin are all on the 6 game, so hopefully they'll be healthy in a couple of weeks.

[mchesher03]

Black is a pretty good corner, but lacks size. For this reason, he would be more suited to the field corner spot. They only have 2 National DB's on their roster, so I doubt that they would both start. Too bad they still didn't have Shane Herbert, then it would be easy to start both Black and Gabriel in the secondary with Herbert backing up at both positions.

so in your opinion - why'd the argos cut herbert in the off-season? a numbers thing or the team not needing another national (given the argos have many high quality national players currently in my view). Anyhow just curious, I recall him starting before his injury so i'm curious why the drop-off.

[Wobbler]

O'Leary is reporting that Greenwood has a hand injury but that Bulcke is close to returning (https://www.thestar.com/sports/argos/2016/07/18/argonauts-using-break-in-schedule-to-their-benefit.html).

[AngeloV]

so in your opinion - why'd the argos cut herbert in the off-season? a numbers thing or the team not needing another national (given the argos have many high quality national players currently in my view). Anyhow just curious, I recall him starting before his injury so i'm curious why the drop-off.

Good question. I think they found themselves deeper with Nationals at other positions, so decided to go lighter at DB.

[paulwoods13]

so in your opinion - why'd the argos cut herbert in the off-season? a numbers thing or the team not needing another national (given the argos have many high quality national players currently in my view). Anyhow just curious, I recall him starting before his injury so i'm curious why the drop-off.

Herbert never started. And he was not going to become anything better than a special teamer and serviceable backup IMO.

[Will]

O'Leary is reporting that Greenwood has a hand injury but that Bulcke is close to returning (https://www.thestar.com/sports/argos/2016/07/18/argonauts-using-break-in-schedule-to-their-benefit.html).

Greenwood just can't stay healthy.

[mchesher03]

thanks for the thoughts guys on Herbert. Saw that Greenwood may have an injury which would be too bad. Think he's one of the more underrated players on our team if not in the league - similar to Jermaine Gabriel.

If Bulcke is back where does he rotate in? Don't think Robertson is getting that starting job back when he's ready to return - Bishop has taken that and ran with it - played extremely well these past two games!!

[Wobbler]

Gabriel and Owusu-Ansah were added to the 6-game IR yesterday. Gurley is on the 1-game list.

[Will]

Ricky will (likely) be 4-6 weeks with sprained MCL. Saw a couple of other guys go down as well. I think Cam Walker was limping at one point.

[Argo57]

Ricky will (likely) be 4-6 weeks with sprained MCL. Saw a couple of other guys go down as well. I think Cam Walker was limping at one point.

As many of us suspected the Argonauts were playing with fire with no proven depth behind Ray.
We will find out what the young guys are made of, in some ways this actually may benefit the Argonauts long term as Kilgore and Fajardo will gain some valuable experience.

[ArgoRavi]

As many of us suspected the Argonauts were playing with fire with no proven depth behind Ray.
We will find out what the young guys are made of, in some ways this actually may benefit the Argonauts long term as Kilgore and Fajardo will gain some valuable experience.

They didn't have proven depth behind Ray in 2013 or 2015 either but everything worked out okay so hopefully it will again in 2016.

[Argo]

They didn't have proven depth behind Ray in 2013 or 2015 either but everything worked out okay so hopefully it will again in 2016.

It would be wonderful if there's another raging QB controversy not too far down the road.

[paulwoods13]

Just noticed Sask has 20 (!) guys listed on six-game IL. We have 11, with probably RR joining that group before Sunday.

[Argo57]

They didn't have proven depth behind Ray in 2013 or 2015 either but everything worked out okay so hopefully it will again in 2016.

Yes it worked out before which shows it is possible but to be honest in my eyes irrelevant, most questions will be answered by the time Ray returns.

[Wobbler]

Just noticed Sask has 20 (!) guys listed on six-game IL. We have 11, with probably RR joining that group before Sunday.
20 must be a record. That's quite remarkable.

[1argoholic]

Not really injuries but more hurt, hurt feelings because they're not a good team.

[ArgoTD]

Was at practice today - on what looked like a simple play, Bates "tweeked" something and was limping off the field and didn't return to action. Depending on what it is, we might be down another receiver for the Ottawa game. Miles appears to be the next man up but I would like to see them give Noel some playing time.

On a good note, Gurley was participating in most of the drills and appears to be getting close so hoping he can return for the Aug. 12th game. Same for Bulke as he was doing all of the D line drills. Waud did some drills but by himself and appears a little ways away from getting back on the active roster.

[Argo57]

Was at practice today - on what looked like a simple play, Bates "tweeked" something and was limping off the field and didn't return to action. Depending on what it is, we might be down another receiver for the Ottawa game. Miles appears to be the next man up but I would like to see them give Noel some playing time.

On a good note, Gurley was participating in most of the drills and appears to be getting close so hoping he can return for the Aug. 12th game. Same for Bulke as he was doing all of the D line drills. Waud did some drills but by himself and appears a little ways away from getting back on the active roster.

Bates "tweaking" something would be the first thing he's done all season IMO.
All of the injuries with our receivers may have kept him employed.

[Wobbler]

Was at practice today - on what looked like a simple play, Bates "tweeked" something and was limping off the field and didn't return to action. Depending on what it is, we might be down another receiver for the Ottawa game. Miles appears to be the next man up but I would like to see them give Noel some playing time.

On a good note, Gurley was participating in most of the drills and appears to be getting close so hoping he can return for the Aug. 12th game. Same for Bulke as he was doing all of the D line drills. Waud did some drills but by himself and appears a little ways away from getting back on the active roster.
Thanks for the reports. Milanovich called Gurley "questionable" today, but based on your observation that sounds like a "no way".


Bates "tweaking" something would be the first thing he's done all season IMO.
Aside from scoring a TD last week, you mean? He hasn't been very productive, and isn't one of our top 5 guys, but we haven't used him much. If he can't go we'll be a bit thin at receiver.

[gilthethrill]

Bates "tweaking" something would be the first thing he's done all season IMO.
All of the injuries with our receivers may have kept him employed.

I don't know about that. Considering he only has 6 regular season games and 1 playoff game in his young CFL career, I think he performed fine. He's worth giving a chance to develop.

[marcwagz]

i know we had controversies before but does anyone find it weird that Harris and Collaros both look a lot better on other teams?
Is that an indictment of our receivers or our offensive schemes?

[Wobbler]

i'd say... no.

Harris looked excellent here last year before a late-season tailspin, and Collaros was throwing to an entirely different Argo receiving squad.

[paulwoods13]

How can anyone say Bates has done nothing? Has he been targeted for passes but dropped or missed them? We don't know his assignments, but on any given pass play, there are four or five guys who do not get the ball directed towards them. If you're the fourth or fifth option most of the time, you're not gonna catch many passes. I've said it before and I'll repeat it, I think Bates is a good downfield blocker, and in a passing-oriented offence that counts for something. Target him 10 times in a game and we can then judge his pass-catching skills; until then, far too soon to declare him a non-contributor.

[Argo57]

How can anyone say Bates has done nothing? Has he been targeted for passes but dropped or missed them? We don't know his assignments, but on any given pass play, there are four or five guys who do not get the ball directed towards them. If you're the fourth or fifth option most of the time, you're not gonna catch many passes. I've said it before and I'll repeat it, I think Bates is a good downfield blocker, and in a passing-oriented offence that counts for something. Target him 10 times in a game and we can then judge his pass-catching skills; until then, far too soon to declare him a non-contributor.

My opinion and I'll stick to it.
Is he not getting the ball because he isn't getting open who knows?
Didn't realize that in any given pass play there are four or five guys who don't get the ball thrown to them, maybe I'll start looking at the game differently from now on👌

[paulwoods13]

Is he not getting the ball because he isn't getting open who knows?


Precisely, who knows? We don't see the film and we don't know the progression of receivers for the QB to check on any given play. If he's typically the fourth or fifth read, it wouldn't matter if he was getting open on every play, or being closely covered on every play. If he's the first or second read and the QB is constantly checking down because he's never open, then he's not doing the job. But again, who knows? So pretty hard to say he's doing nothing -- it's an opinion, and those are always valid, but I don't believe it's based on hard evidence any of us has access to.

[Argo57]

Precisely, who knows? We don't see the film and we don't know the progression of receivers for the QB to check on any given play. If he's typically the fourth or fifth read, it wouldn't matter if he was getting open on every play, or being closely covered on every play. If he's the first or second read and the QB is constantly checking down because he's never open, then he's not doing the job. But again, who knows? So pretty hard to say he's doing nothing -- it's an opinion, and those are always valid, but I don't believe it's based on hard evidence any of us has access to.

Most of the opinions on this forum fall into this category (including yours), we are all either watching at the stadium or on TV and form our opinions from there, so be it.

[R.J]

I agree with 57 - Bates hasn't done much IMO. Most noticeable things he's done is get the one touchdown and a couple of blocking downfield penalties. during the off season and at the early beginnning of the season I was a bit concerned that Bates may end up taking Elliott's spot, but I'm not worried at all anymore.

As for receivers not getting open; this has been brought up before, and it seems as though it's a scheme thing. Ray brought up when he returned last season that "there"s very little freelancing in this offense", and look at how many receivers we've had over the last 4.5 seasons. The likelihood of that many receivers not being able to find holes/get open is pretty low. Every year this issue comes up; I think it's time to stop blaming receivers.

[Argo57]

I agree with 57 - Bates hasn't done much IMO. Most noticeable things he's done is get the one touchdown and a couple of blocking downfield penalties. during the off season and at the early beginnning of the season I was a bit concerned that Bates may end up taking Elliott's spot, but I'm not worried at all anymore.

As for receivers not getting open; this has been brought up before, and it seems as though it's a scheme thing. Ray brought up when he returned last season that "there"s very little freelancing in this offense", and look at how many receivers we've had over the last 4.5 seasons. The likelihood of that many receivers not being able to find holes/get open is pretty low. Every year this issue comes up; I think it's time to stop blaming receivers.

If there is little improvisation allowed in Milanovich's scheme what your saying makes sense, with the amount of film study that teams do these days one would hope that adjustments are being made on a regular basis.

[Wobbler]

Injury update in Zicarelli's new article (http://www.torontosun.com/2016/08/06/argos-headed-in-right-direction):

"Brian Bulcke, who has yet to suit up, has a chance to play this week, while Aaron Berry, who has played well in the back end, may not be up for the Blue Bombers. Linebacker Marshall McFadden is getting closer, but it’s doubtful he’ll play Friday."

[Argo57]

Injury update in Zicarelli's new article (http://www.torontosun.com/2016/08/06/argos-headed-in-right-direction):

"Brian Bulcke, who has yet to suit up, has a chance to play this week, while Aaron Berry, who has played well in the back end, may not be up for the Blue Bombers. Linebacker Marshall McFadden is getting closer, but it’s doubtful he’ll play Friday."

Don't rush McFadden back, Greenwood is just fine where he is.

[Will]

I'm happy with our linebacker corps in its current configuration.

The return of Bulcke does create an interesting conundrum? Do we dress 6 DT's (Foley, Hall, Bishop, Hickman, Lemon and Bulcke)? Well I guess we've been doing that all year so maybe Walker sits?

[gilthethrill]

I'm happy with our linebacker corps in its current configuration.

The return of Bulcke does create an interesting conundrum? Do we dress 6 DT's (Foley, Hall, Bishop, Hickman, Lemon and Bulcke)? Well I guess we've been doing that all year so maybe Walker sits?

Sitting Walker would cause problems on special teams though. I was wondering the same thing about when Bulcke and Waud are healthy. The current DLineman have all played really well. Not sure how Tracy Robertson going to get backing the field either.

[gilthethrill]

Don't rush McFadden back, Greenwood is just fine where he is.

Let McFadden learn the CFL game from the sidelines. No way does he replace Greenwood...or even Miles as our MLB.

[Wobbler]

Greenwood will certainly continue to start, but is Isaac-Greenwood-Raymond necessarily better than Greenwood-McFadden-Raymond? I'm not sure. McFadden wasn't healthy long enough to many any impression on me, at least.

[paulwoods13]

Greenwood will certainly continue to start, but is Isaac-Greenwood-Raymond necessarily better than Greenwood-McFadden-Raymond? I'm not sure. McFadden wasn't healthy long enough to many any impression on me, at least.

I agree we might be better off with McFadden in and Isaac out. I want to see what McFadden can do. He played great in the home preseason game.

[gilthethrill]

I agree we might be better off with McFadden in and Isaac out. I want to see what McFadden can do. He played great in the home preseason game.

When Gabriel returns, I wonder if Thomas Gordon could slide from safety to the linebacking corps with Greenwood and Raymond? He looks big and has the ability to cover.

[Wobbler]

Hazelton and Newton were placed on the 1 game IR today.

Josey has been re-6 gamed.
Berry and van Roten were *added* to the 6 game list.

I assume that there will be a bit more scrutiny of the 6 game IR after Saskatchewan's fine - we'd be wise not to push it.

[ArgoRavi]

Hazelton and Newton were placed on the 1 game IR today.

Josey has been re-6 gamed.
Berry and van Roten were *added* to the 6 game list.

I assume that there will be a bit more scrutiny of the 6 game IR after Saskatchewan's fine - we'd be wise not to push it.

I don't know about Josey's status but Berry and Van Roten are both legitimately injured. If the Argos pull them off the 6 game list early, then they will have to pay their full salaries.

[AngeloV]

I don't know about Josey's status but Berry and Van Roten are both legitimately injured. If the Argos pull them off the 6 game list early, then they will have to pay their full salaries.

Josey was at practice but no pads on Tuesday. He also seemed to be hobbling around. I suspect Elliott will come off the 6 game before the Edmonton game.

[ArgoRavi]

Josey was at practice but no pads on Tuesday. He also seemed to be hobbling around. I suspect Elliott will come off the 6 game before the Edmonton game.

From what I have read recently, if a player is on the six game injured list, they cannot practise with the team while a player on the one game list can. The Argos may have the philosophy that anyone who cannot practise automatically goes on the six game list until they are healthy.

[paulwoods13]

I thought the new rule was six-gamed players could start practising after four games. Also, I think I read that you get cap relief for six-gaming someone only if they remain on an injury list after missing six games. Not sure about the second part, but pretty sure about the first. That's why Collaros was taken off six-game before he was ready to play -- so he could practise.

[R.J]

Players who are on the 6 game can practice with the team after the 4 or 5 game point from my understanding.

[AngeloV]

I thought the new rule was six-gamed players could start practising after four games. Also, I think I read that you get cap relief for six-gaming someone only if they remain on an injury list after missing six games. Not sure about the second part, but pretty sure about the first. That's why Collaros was taken off six-game before he was ready to play -- so he could practise.

Yes, that is why I suggested Elliott will be back for the Edmonton game. By watching him, I'm sure he could return now, but it would make no sense to bring him back 1 week early and not get the cap relief.