Argo players of the past that you regret the team getting rid of.

[paulwoods13]

Man, it really pisses me off that the Argos let Rick Sowieta go to Ottawa. And don't even get me started on Mookie Mitchell.

[ArgoZ]

Man, it really pisses me off that the Argos let Rick Sowieta go to Ottawa. And don't even get me started on Mookie Mitchell.

LOL! For me personally, it hurts when I think about when the Argos lost Manny Hazard to Shreveport. He gave me my first CFL autograph on a Jogo 93 Card. I thought he was going to be a star for the Argos for years. I guess we should both move on.

[Argo57]

Man, it really pisses me off that the Argos let Rick Sowieta go to Ottawa. And don't even get me started on Mookie Mitchell.

LOL Paul.
Willi Pless, Paul Bennett, Danny Bass and of course Feoli-Gudino are on my list.

[ArgoGabe22]

LOL Paul.
Willi Pless, Paul Bennett, Danny Bass and of course Feoli-Gudino are on my list.

I don't follow the Bombers closely but in really surprised JFG has stuck around this long.

[Ron]

LOL! For me personally, it hurts when I think about when the Argos lost Manny Hazard to Shreveport. He gave me my first CFL autograph on a Jogo 93 Card. I thought he was going to be a star for the Argos for years. I guess we should both move on.

I feel ya. Nothing was more devastating for me, the fans, the franchise or the city than the Great Betrayal in 1995. 21 years later and the team still has issues trying to get fans to trust them for the long haul.

[Will]

I feel ya. Nothing was more devastating for me, the fans, the franchise or the city than the Great Betrayal in 1995. 21 years later and the team still has issues trying to get fans to trust them for the long haul.

Wayne Lammle's departure :D?

[Double Dare]

I have always missed Wonderful Terrific Monds of the Ottawa Roughriders. : )

[R.J]

Bring back Domer!

(I'm aware he was the Dome's mascot and not the Argonauts)

[ArgoRavi]

Man, it really pisses me off that the Argos let Rick Sowieta go to Ottawa. And don't even get me started on Mookie Mitchell.

Don't forget about Tom Wilkinson, Paul!

[1argoholic]

Paul Bennett, Mookie, Danny Bass, Willie Pless as well. Danny and Pless were massive stars after they left.

[paulwoods13]

Paul Bennett, Mookie, Danny Bass, Willie Pless as well. Danny and Pless were massive stars after they left.

Pless was traded for Matt Dunigan, who won us a Grey Cup a year later. Hated to lose Pless -- he was fabulous from his first game in the CFL -- but I'd make that trade 100 times out of 100.

Bass was sent away in possibly the worst trade Ralph Sazio ever made -- for defensive lineman Reggie Lewis, who played a few games and then tried his luck in the NFL.

[1argoholic]

Fair enough about Dunigan but both starred for years in Edmonton.

[OV Argo]

Pless was traded for Matt Dunigan, who won us a Grey Cup a year later. Hated to lose Pless -- he was fabulous from his first game in the CFL -- but I'd make that trade 100 times out of 100.

Bass was sent away in possibly the worst trade Ralph Sazio ever made -- for defensive lineman Reggie Lewis, who played a few games and then tried his luck in the NFL.


Pless was traded along with a whole whack of other Argos for Dunigan - who played for the Argos for how many seasons? Beauty to get an all-time great QB who helped win ONE GC; giving up an all-time great CFL linebacker as part of the deal = no.

Pless should have been an untouchable IMO; I really doubt BC would have refused the trade if the Argos had offered up another good young D starter instead of Pless.

Real fans should be wise to know their team history and be aware that management is capable of some very stupid/moronic moves that see great players traded away or cut or mistreated; and hope history does not repeat itself too often. Pless. Bennett, Neil Lumsden, Sowieta, etc.

[Will]

The problem was the stupid decision to let Dunigan walk after the 1991 season in favor of Rickey Foggie. That move set the Argos back four years and contributed to the downward spiral of the team's off-field fortunes in Toronto. Yes, Pless was an all-time linebacker, but the Argos actually filled that void nicely for several season with Darryl Ford, Chris Gaines and Don Moen. But, Gaines decided to retire after the 1991 season, I don't know what happened to Ford and Don Moen was heading towards the twilight of his career.

[Will]

I'm going to splice the posts from the other thread.

[1argoholic]

Plus we often see guys players lights out until they have a NFL tryout or two. When they come back they are half the player unless they go to another CFL team and thrive. Didn't Darryl Ford hit Detroit for a bit and wasn't the same afterwards. I'm sure it was him.

I'd like to see more Argos like Masotti, Pinball and Moen start and play their whole CFL careers with us. I really hate when guys leave for a year or two near the end of their careers to another team. Saskatchewan is a great example as Jones cleared house and they suck and players he ditched can still play. Nice to see Chick haunt them last week even though his a Ticat.

[paulwoods13]

How did this become an actual thread? My post (in a different thread) about Sowieta and Mitchell was simply a clumsy attempt to poke fun at the endless -- and I do mean endless -- complaining about Collaros and Harris being "allowed" to leave. I don't actually give a damn that Sowieta was let go back in 1978 or whenever it was. Would have liked Mitchell to play only for us but at the time the decision to let him go did not seem particularly heinous.

[Will]

How did this become an actual thread? My post (in a different thread) about Sowieta and Mitchell was simply a clumsy attempt to poke fun at the endless -- and I do mean endless -- complaining about Collaros and Harris being "allowed" to leave. I don't actually give a damn that Sowieta was let go back in 1978 or whenever it was. Would have liked Mitchell to play only for us but at the time the decision to let him go did not seem particularly heinous.

People did start discussing legitimate names from the past.

[Jon Gonzo]

Sure wasn't happy when Coach Dracula (with the big NFL credentials) played a part in trading our best receiver (Arland Bruce) to our biggest enemies (Hamilton Ti-Cats)

[Jon Gonzo]

And when I was a kid, I was heartbroken when they traded Paul Bennett and Larry Uteck

[R.J]

Didn't Duingan leave for Winnipeg, because McNall didn't want to pay him $450-500k ? I don't think it was because Rita wanted to go with the younger Foggie.

[ArgoGabe22]

Pacino Horne!!! They should've given him the big extension he demanded after 2012. :p

[PullTogether73]

I'd like to see more Argos like Masotti, Pinball and Moen start and play their whole CFL careers with us. I really hate when guys leave for a year or two near the end of their careers to another team.

Yah, one of my favourite Argos all-time, Kevin Eiben, should have finished his career in double blue.
Seeing him in Ti-Cats black and yellow was awful.

[AngeloV]

Didn't Duingan leave for Winnipeg, because McNall didn't want to pay him $450-500k ? I don't think it was because Rita wanted to go with the younger Foggie.

Not sure if that was McNall's call or Mike McCarthy's.

The way I remember it, McCarthy wanted to sign him to a deal where cash was based on games played. Dunnigan balked (as he should have) and tested the market.

[Bleeds Double Blue]

Yah, one of my favourite Argos all-time, Kevin Eiben, should have finished his career in double blue.
Seeing him in Ti-Cats black and yellow was awful.I feel the same way about seeing CO2 in a Hamilton uni. I get the reasoning but it's still tough to see.

[Bleeds Double Blue]

Also, from the Way Back Machine, Gordon Judges was an Argonaut on a couple of different occasions. He turned out to be a pretty decent defensive lineman for the Als. Earlier in his career he wasn't able to crack the Argo lineup so he played a season for the Bramalea Satellites. How's that for ancient history?

[Will]

Sure wasn't happy when Coach Dracula (with the big NFL credentials) played a part in trading our best receiver (Arland Bruce) to our biggest enemies (Hamilton Ti-Cats)

Letting Bruce go definitely angered me at the time, and where he ended up angered me even more, but the decision to let Bruce go was technically the right one.

[Ron]

The way I remember it, McCarthy wanted to sign him to a deal where cash was based on games played. Dunnigan balked (as he should have) and tested the market.

Bingo!

[Ron]

Pless was traded along with a whole whack of other Argos for Dunigan - who played for the Argos for how many seasons? Beauty to get an all-time great QB who helped win ONE GC; giving up an all-time great CFL linebacker as part of the deal = no.

Pless should have been an untouchable IMO;

All your roster ideas finally make sense. Actually winning a championship is not as valuable to you as having a player you like fill a roster spot.

[R.J]

Not sure if that was McNall's call or Mike McCarthy's.

The way I remember it, McCarthy wanted to sign him to a deal where cash was based on games played. Dunnigan balked (as he should have) and tested the market.
I remember reading in the double blue book we received in 2008 that Adam Rita brought up how Ownership wasn't spending money like they used to. TBH, I have no idea, as I wasn't a fan at that time. Heck, even if I was a fan I wouldn't have remembered anyways, seeing as I was only 4 years old at the time lol.

[Will]

I remember reading in the double blue book we received in 2008 that Adam Rita brought up how Ownership wasn't spending money like they used to. TBH, I have no idea, as I wasn't a fan at that time. Heck, even if I was a fan I wouldn't have remembered anyways, seeing as I was only 4 years old at the time lol.

I don't remember the '91 season myself other than a few vague memories of being at a few games. I do remember being at the Calgary/Toronto game in 1992 in which the Argos were shutout.

McNall's legal troubles hadn't surfaced yet by the 1991-1992 offseason I don't believe.

[Will]

Pacino Horne!!! They should've given him the big extension he demanded after 2012. :p

You laugh but it isn't as if Barker has been able to find the right 5 guys since then.

[R.J]

I don't remember the '91 season myself other than a few vague memories of being at a few games. I do remember being at the Calgary/Toronto game in 1992 in which the Argos were shutout.

McNall's legal troubles hadn't surfaced yet by the 1991-1992 offseason I don't believe.
I'm aware, just pointing out what I read in the book.

McNall's interest was said to be waneing at this point, and the money issues were visible I suppose. McCarthy brought up during the "John Candy True Double Blue" doc that he knew money was going from the Argonauts ticketing office to LA to pay hockey bills.

[ArgoRavi]

I'm aware, just pointing out what I read in the book.

McNall's interest was said to be waneing at this point, and the money issues were visible I suppose. McCarthy brought up during the "John Candy True Double Blue" doc that he knew money was going from the Argonauts ticketing office to LA to pay hockey bills.

McNall's financial troubles IIRC were starting to surface in the off-season after the 1991 Grey Cup win. I even recall Marty York writing a column suggesting that McNall was already starting to "lose interest" in the Argos at the start of the 1992 season. His legal problems would take a bit more time to become evident but things slowly started to go south during that off-season after the '91 season.

[R.J]

From Double Blue:

While 1991 began and ended in true Hollywood fashion, it turned into a horror show just nine months later. Despite the Grey Cup victory the Argos lost #3.5 million. The red link had a direct effect on the 1992 season. To start with, the Argos were unwilling to give Dunigan, who had played out his option and missed most of the 1991 season due to injury, a new contract in the $450,000 to $500,000 range. He eventually jumped to the Winnipeg Blue Bombers as a free agent.

The loss of Dunigan was probably the most profound factor in the team's struggle in '92. Rickey Foggie was handed the starting job backed by newcomers John Congemi and Mike Kerrigan. But Foggie suffered a cracked bone in his ankle in a pre-season game and, while he continued to play, he was ineffective. By September, with the team sporting a 3-8 record, Adam Rita, who had been named coach of the year only months before, was fired and replaced by assistant Dennis Meyer.

"Matt was gone. The was the biggest thing," said Rita in reflecting how the team sagged so badly after the Grey Cup win. "And te, having Rickey injured was tough. We got a little complacent as a team. No matter what I did I couldn't get them out of the doldrums. We were never able to overcome our injuries. We didn't have the same kind of depth that we had the previous two years. The ownership wasn't spending money anymore."

This part's just sad.

"Quick" McNall was heard to quip prior to a game as he scanned the players clothes hanging in the Argos' empty dressing room. "Go though the pockets and see if there's any loose change. We might need it."

[AngeloV]

To start with, the Argos were unwilling to give Dunigan, who had played out his option and missed most of the 1991 season due to injury, a new contract in the $450,000 to $500,000 range. He eventually jumped to the Winnipeg Blue Bombers as a free agent.

This part is a little misleading. McCarthy at the time swore that if Dunnigan had played a full season, he would have made the money he was looking for. The fact that he offered it based on the amount of games Dunnigan played rather than make it a hard annual salary, was the reason he didn't sign.

[Argo]

Also, from the Way Back Machine, Gordon Judges was an Argonaut on a couple of different occasions. He turned out to be a pretty decent defensive lineman for the Als. Earlier in his career he wasn't able to crack the Argo lineup so he played a season for the Bramalea Satellites. How's that for ancient history?

Very impressive, actually.

[KCargosfan]

Pacino Horne!!! They should've given him the big extension he demanded after 2012. :p

haha, thumbs up to you, sir.

[argolio]

All your roster ideas finally make sense. Actually winning a championship is not as valuable to you as having a player you like fill a roster spot.The writers who vote for CIS and CFL all-stars are the real champions.

[Stevoman]

Eddie Thomas, Darrel K. Smith (although I guess he really was done), Matt Dunigan, Derrell Mitchell, Chad Owens.

[OV Argo]

All your roster ideas finally make sense. Actually winning a championship is not as valuable to you as having a player you like fill a roster spot.

Yeah - Pless never did much in his CFL career after the Argos gave him away; just an average joe filling a roster spot. The Argos also gave up Jerald Baylis, Emanuel Tolbert, Tony Visco, Todd Wiseman and QB Rick Johnson in that trade to get Dunigan.

Oh boy, winning one GC in an 8 or 9 team league - such a rare feat - I'd do anything to get a QB who might help win a "championship" - hell trade the whole team now for Collaros or Kevin Glenn.

[OV Argo]

Sad to see some long serving Argo greats go on to other teams - at the end of their careers where they don't have that much left perhaps - Mookie Mitchell, Kevin Eiben , Chad Owens for example - that's one thing. It's another thing entirely to trade away a player just entering the prime of his career who is a league best talent and who goes on to absolutely star or dominate in the league for a decade or so after you gave him away - eg. Willie Pless

[AngeloV]

Yah, one of my favourite Argos all-time, Kevin Eiben, should have finished his career in double blue.
Seeing him in Ti-Cats black and yellow was awful.

You're right. He should have finished his career as an Argo, but rather than retire when he should have, he went to Hamilton when he was no longer a good player. IIRC, he wasn't a starter for long there. It reminded me of when Ben Zambiasi, who was a great Ti-Cat couldn't accept the fact that he was no longer a good MLB, and finished his career with the Argos. I think this happens a lot between the 2 teams, because players at this stage in their careers don't have to relocate their families.

[Argo57]

Plus we often see guys players lights out until they have a NFL tryout or two. When they come back they are half the player unless they go to another CFL team and thrive. Didn't Darryl Ford hit Detroit for a bit and wasn't the same afterwards. I'm sure it was him.

I'd like to see more Argos like Masotti, Pinball and Moen start and play their whole CFL careers with us. I really hate when guys leave for a year or two near the end of their careers to another team. Saskatchewan is a great example as Jones cleared house and they suck and players he ditched can still play. Nice to see Chick haunt them last week even though his a Ticat.

Same guy argoholic Ford played with the Detroit Lions.

[Argo57]

The problem was the stupid decision to let Dunigan walk after the 1991 season in favor of Rickey Foggie. That move set the Argos back four years and contributed to the downward spiral of the team's off-field fortunes in Toronto. Yes, Pless was an all-time linebacker, but the Argos actually filled that void nicely for several season with Darryl Ford, Chris Gaines and Don Moen. But, Gaines decided to retire after the 1991 season, I don't know what happened to Ford and Don Moen was heading towards the twilight of his career.

I remember Pless playing in his first pre-season game for the Argos, immediately you knew he was something special.
Smaller guy who could really move well and a tackling machine on top of that.
Agree with AF87, the stupid move was not retaining Dunigan's services for longer tenure.
Another guy I really liked was Sam Mills who tried out for the Argonauts in 1982 and despite playing very well was cut, loved O'Billovich but he was capable of making some head scratching personnel decisions at times, Mills went on to play in the USFL and starred for many years in the NFL with New Orleans and Carolina.
He sadly passed away from cancer a few years ago.

[ArgoZ]

You're right. He should have finished his career as an Argo, but rather than retire when he should have, he went to Hamilton when he was no longer a good player. IIRC, he wasn't a starter for long there. It reminded me of when Ben Zambiasi, who was a great Ti-Cat couldn't accept the fact that he was no longer a good MLB, and finished his career with the Argos. I think this happens a lot between the 2 teams, because players at this stage in their careers don't have to relocate their families.

It's a unique situation with the Argos and Cats. As I mentioned once before, I could probably count close to 100 players that have switched sides from one season to another. You don't see that kind of shared turnover in many other leagues.

[paulwoods13]

I remember Pless playing in his first pre-season game for the Argos, immediately you knew he was something special.
Smaller guy who could really move well and a tackling machine on top of that.
Agree with AF87, the stupid move was not retaining Dunigan's services for longer tenure.
Another guy I really liked was Sam Mills who tried out for the Argonauts in 1982 and despite playing very well was cut, loved O'Billovich but he was capable of making some head scratching personnel decisions at times, Mills went on to play in the USFL and starred for many years in the NFL with New Orleans and Carolina.
He sadly passed away from cancer a few years ago.

Are you saying you actually noticed Mills during his Argo preseason and wanted him to be kept? If so, you would have been one of an extremely small group. I paid an absurd amount of attention to the roster back then, getting the (fat) preseason prospectuses and going to home preseason games. And I have no recollection of Mills as an Argo other than knowing he was one for a few weeks.

[Argo57]

Are you saying you actually noticed Mills during his Argo preseason and wanted him to be kept? If so, you would have been one of an extremely small group. I paid an absurd amount of attention to the roster back then, getting the (fat) preseason prospectuses and going to home preseason games. And I have no recollection of Mills as an Argo other than knowing he was one for a few weeks.

Wouldnt have posted this if I didn't notice him.
I remember my father noticing him as well, I was a 17 year old kid obsessed with the Argonauts keenly interested in the team and any new players playing in their pre-season games.
My father and I didn't miss a game from 1982 thru 1986, loved seeing the new players in pre season and trying to predict who would make the team each year.
Incredible, maybe some keen young kid just watching his team noticed something that you didn't.
I had the thin preseason prospectuses.......it's called a game program.

[PullTogether73]

Oh boy, winning one GC in an 8 or 9 team league - such a rare feat - I'd do anything to get a QB who might help win a "championship" - hell trade the whole team now for Collaros or Kevin Glenn.

Okay, if winning a championship isn't the goal for you, what is?

As for the winning in an 8 or 9 team league...I trust you are not a Maple Leafs fan either.
In their oh-so-glorious history, they have NEVER won a championship in a league with more than 8 teams (and most of them were in a 6 team league).

As for it not being a rare feat to win in an 8 or 9 team league, perhaps you should become a Roughriders fan. I'm sure they might have a different opinion.

[Jon Gonzo]

Are you saying you actually noticed Mills during his Argo preseason and wanted him to be kept? If so, you would have been one of an extremely small group. I paid an absurd amount of attention to the roster back then, getting the (fat) preseason prospectuses and going to home preseason games. And I have no recollection of Mills as an Argo other than knowing he was one for a few weeks.

I also remember the huge Training Camp that Sam Mills had, as I studied this team like an Argo Nerd through this era especially. I remember the surprise when Mills didn't make the team. I vaguely recall a 10 tackle PS game, and that Pete Martin was big on this guy. I think it was John Pointer who beat Mills out ultimately. The Argos were a good team then so not many people questioned OB. He took em to the Grey Cup. I think after Pointer, the team settled on Darrell Nicholson, and that group went on and got us our first Grey Cup in 30 years.

We all remember that parade, don't we? (;

[Argo57]

I also remember the huge Training Camp that Sam Mills had, as I studied this team like an Argo Nerd through this era especially. I remember the surprise when Mills didn't make the team. I vaguely recall a 10 tackle PS game, and that Pete Martin was big on this guy. I think it was John Pointer who beat Mills out ultimately. The Argos were a good team then so not many people questioned OB. He took em to the Grey Cup. I think after Pointer, the team settled on Darrell Nicholson, and that group went on and got us our first Grey Cup in 30 years.

We all remember that parade, don't we? (;

LOL Gonzo, I guess that makes two of us who remembered Mills, I wish there was more kids obsessed with the Argos like we were back in those days!!
You are indeed correct Jon, Pointer in 82, Nicholson in 83.
I remember Nicholson being dealt to Calgary a year or two later.
I followed Mills career pretty closely after him being cut by the Argonauts always fascinated that O'Billovich cut him loose and his subsequent success down south.
Argos had some good linebackers come and go during this era, William Mitchell was another good one and of course Don Moen.

[Jon Gonzo]

LOL Gonzo, I guess that makes two of us who remembered Mills, I wish there was more kids obsessed with the Argos like we were back in those days!!
You are indeed correct Jon, Pointer in 82, Nicholson in 83.
I remember Nicholson being dealt to Calgary a year or two later.
I followed Mills career pretty closely after him being cut by the Argonauts always fascinated that O'Billovich cut him loose and his subsequent success down south.
Argos had some good linebackers come and go during this era, William Mitchell was another good one and of course Don Moen.


Yeah Moen arrived at a good time to be an Argo Fan. He was very steady, didn't miss a tackle, was an ironman, and could shed a block very well. But he was also lucky to line up beside some great MLBs. As we have discussed; Pointer, Mills, Nicholson and William Mitchell. And as you point out, the streak that came thereafter. Moen got to play with Willie Pless, Tank Landry, Chris Gaines, and Ken Benson. That didn't hurt.

[argoscott]

Most recently Michael Bishop, Arlen Bruce.... Matt Dunigan a number of years ago... And if you dont like my comments go pss up a stump :)

I add that last only because I am sick and tired of being TRASHED anytime I mention Michael Bishop, am sick of the lies about him, he really has been the mosr exciting Argo QB sin ce Doug Flutie, and Flutie would quickly add that he could not throw like Bishop, Dunigan has admitted same Though Dunigan was close

[AngeloV]

Most recently Michael Bishop, Arlen Bruce.... Matt Dunigan a number of years ago... And if you dont like my comments go pss up a stump :)

I add that last only because I am sick and tired of being TRASHED anytime I mention Michael Bishop, am sick of the lies about him, he really has been the mosr exciting Argo QB sin ce Doug Flutie, and Flutie would quickly add that he could not throw like Bishop, Dunigan has admitted same Though Dunigan was close

Flutie and Dunnigan's TD to INT ratio in comparison to Bishop's show why Bishop moved so often. I agree, he was exciting and had tons of potential, but he never lived up to that potential.

[argoscott]

Flutie and Dunnigan's TD to INT ratio in comparison to Bishop's show why Bishop moved so often. I agree, he was exciting and had tons of potential, but he never lived up to that potential.

He lived up to it in 2007, his team mates loved him and wanted him to return as the starter in 2008 as well as Stubler , who basically lost his job over standing with the QB he wanted. Joseph said publicly after he was finally released, that it was Bishop`s team... we will never know what would have happened had Pinball not decided to go after Joseph

After that Sask in which he won right out the gate with no training camp and only a couple days under his belt won the first game. He had great games in Sask, a poorly run team, when they won it was a team effort, but when they lost it was all Bishop`s fault

Then Bish went to the Circus in Winnipeg, again no training camp , flown in and wins right out the gate, with less than a week practice, under the drugged out coach, names slip my mind, had some of his best games ever regardless with Winnipeg, one game in particular were Bish threw three td passes in the first half, with Dunigan in AWE saying...when this guy is on he is amazing

but again was the scapegoat for all their losses.

[AngeloV]

He lived up to it in 2007, his team mates loved him and wanted him to return as the starter in 2008 as well as Stubler , who basically lost his job over standing with the QB he wanted. Joseph said publicly after he was finally released, that it was Bishop`s team... we will never know what would have happened had Pinball not decided to go after Joseph

After that Sask in which he won right out the gate with no training camp and only a couple days under his belt won the first game. He had great games in Sask, a poorly run team, when they won it was a team effort, but when they lost it was all Bishop`s fault

Then Bish went to the Circus in Winnipeg, again no training camp , flown in and wins right out the gate, with less than a week practice, under the drugged out coach, names slip my mind, had some of his best games ever regardless with Winnipeg, one game in particular were Bish threw three td passes in the first half, with Dunigan in AWE saying...when this guy is on he is amazing

but again was the scapegoat for all their losses.

He also crapped the bed in the 2007 Eastern Final against Winnipeg--who played a good portion of that game with Ryan Dinwidde at QB. This was likely the reason they felt the need to go for Joseph, which in retrospect, was also not a wise move. Bishop was horrible in that game.

For the record, I was one of about 4 or 5 guys on here that supported Bishop as the team's QB. But how long were the Argos supposed to wait for him to emerge? He was here for 6 seasons so it's not like he wasn't given an opportunity. He just never fully took advantage of it.

[R.J]

I also wanted to see Bishop start over Joseph, but for whatever reason Bishop never took the reins, so it is what it is.

Also, Bishop was not the scapegoat in Winnipeg. All of Winnipeg's issues lay at the feet of Mike Kelly. Most fans were happy to see Bishop when he was brought it, while Bishop's play was frustrating at times, he was better than Lefors and the system Kelly was running, which Kelly tweaked with the arrival of Bishop.

[Ron]

Yeah - Pless never did much in his CFL career after the Argos gave him away; just an average joe filling a roster spot. The Argos also gave up Jerald Baylis, Emanuel Tolbert, Tony Visco, Todd Wiseman and QB Rick Johnson in that trade to get Dunigan.

Oh boy, winning one GC in an 8 or 9 team league - such a rare feat - I'd do anything to get a QB who might help win a "championship" - hell trade the whole team now for Collaros or Kevin Glenn.

So you accept I got it right that you choose players you like over teams winning championships. The strawman attempt failed.

As for Rare? You keep using that word but I do not think it means what you think it means.

As for how rare an event it was to actually win a Cup ... just how many Cups did the Argos win between 1954 and 1989? I'll give you a second to figure it out and just why any team may feel making a big move is worth it regardless of how some linebacker may play 5 years in the future. In the Argos case they made a move and got the championship. (Which you probably hated)

As for your hyperbole "Collaros and Glenn" reference ... I figure the vast vast vast majority of fans would make that trade if it resulted in a Grey Cup win. You OTOH stand alone as a dude that doesn't care if the team wins as long as the player you like has his spot.

[R.J]

As for Rare? You keep using that word but I do not think it means what you think it means.
LMAO!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk

[OV Argo]

So you accept I got it right that you choose players you like over teams winning championships. The strawman attempt failed.

As for Rare? You keep using that word but I do not think it means what you think it means.

As for how rare an event it was to actually win a Cup ... just how many Cups did the Argos win between 1954 and 1989? I'll give you a second to figure it out and just why any team may feel making a big move is worth it regardless of how some linebacker may play 5 years in the future. In the Argos case they made a move and got the championship. (Which you probably hated)

As for your hyperbole "Collaros and Glenn" reference ... I figure the vast vast vast majority of fans would make that trade if it resulted in a Grey Cup win. You OTOH stand alone as a dude that doesn't care if the team wins as long as the player you like has his spot.

You're totally clueless in your attempt to win some sort of grade 5 level debating class project.

I never said the Argos should not have traded for an all-time great QB in Dunigan - who helped them win one GC and then was gone shortly thereafer; I said they should NOT have included an all-time great CFL defensive player in Willie Pless in that deal - can you comprehend this??? - or maybe you can offer some absolute proof that the deal would never have happened if Pless was off the table there ? Yeah - i just hated the Argos winning the 91 GC with Dunigan - not a real true fan like you i guess - chump.

[argolio]

Okay, if winning a championship isn't the goal for you, what is?

As for the winning in an 8 or 9 team league...I trust you are not a Maple Leafs fan either.
In their oh-so-glorious history, they have NEVER won a championship in a league with more than 8 teams (and most of them were in a 6 team league).

As for it not being a rare feat to win in an 8 or 9 team league, perhaps you should become a Roughriders fan. I'm sure they might have a different opinion.Pretty sure Bomber and Ticat fans aren't happy with their current Grey Cup droughts. As we all know, the Argos managed to go 31 years without winning one. In the NHL, the Bruins and Rangers combined for exactly zero Cups in the six-team era (1942-67). Black Hawks only did it once.

[Ron]

You're totally clueless in your attempt to win some sort of grade 5 level debating class project.

I never said the Argos should not have traded for an all-time great QB in Dunigan - who helped them win one GC and then was gone shortly thereafer; I said they should NOT have included an all-time great CFL defensive player in Willie Pless in that deal - can you comprehend this??? - or maybe you can offer some absolute proof that the deal would never have happened if Pless was off the table there ? Yeah - i just hated the Argos winning the 91 GC with Dunigan - not a real true fan like you i guess - chump.

I'd reply more you you've gone unhinged a bit and the effort would be wasted. Truly sorry to make you so emotional.

[PullTogether73]

Pretty sure Bomber and Ticat fans aren't happy with their current Grey Cup droughts. As we all know, the Argos managed to go 31 years without winning one. In the NHL, the Bruins and Rangers combined for exactly zero Cups in the six-team era (1942-67). Black Hawks only did it once.

Yes, I was going to mention the current GC droughts of the Bombers and Cats, along with the Argos long stretch, as you mention. I thought the Roughriders dismal overall record of GC championships in their long history was even more poignant.

The NHL droughts of those three U.S.-based teams however, had a lot to do with (stupid imo) territory rules from which teams could draft players. Montreal and Toronto had an outright advantage in getting the best hockey players - those from within their regional sphere. Detroit was also a beneficiary of these rules as they could draft players from southwestern Ontario. Plus the fact that the owner of the Red Wings also owned or controlled the other three U.S.-based teams and stockpiled their best players in Detroit, leaving the cupboard bare for New York, Chicago, and Boston. Look up the term "Norris House League" (NHL, get it?) and you'll see to what I am referring.

[argolio]

There was definitely a lot of weirdness about the 6-team NHL by today's standards. Probably explains the ridiculous decision to put all the 1967 expansion teams in their own division.