View Full Version : Ricky Ray Done For The Season?
ArgoGabe22
09-08-2016, 02:19 PM
Punctured lung. No wonder he looked gassed and was about to collapse.
Herb Z is hearing Toronto QB Ricky Ray's out rest of the season with a punctured lung.
ArgoGabe22
09-08-2016, 02:21 PM
Maybe not?
Ricky Ray did not practice Thurs & Milanovich says Ray has an upper body injury. Needs to practice tomorrow if he is to play vs #Ticats #CFL
Zurkowsky the only one reporting this.
Scooter McCray
09-08-2016, 02:47 PM
That would be the cherry on top of this season if true. I hope not. It would make proper evaluation of this team more difficult in the offseason.
argotom
09-08-2016, 02:56 PM
Wow if true, when it rains it pours.
argofan81
09-08-2016, 03:45 PM
It's official (I think), CFL is reporting it:
http://www.cfl.ca/2016/09/08/report-argos-ray-to-miss-remainder-of-2016-season/
AngeloV
09-08-2016, 04:00 PM
It's official (I think), CFL is reporting it:
http://www.cfl.ca/2016/09/08/report-argos-ray-to-miss-remainder-of-2016-season/
I believe they took it down, as the link is not available, and when I go to CFL.CA nothing there.
Jayahre
09-08-2016, 04:10 PM
He's out for the season according to yahoo
https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/cfl-55-yard-line/ricky-ray-out-for-rest-of-the-season-with-punctured-lung--according-to-zurkowsky-195604763.html
........... but I thought Collaros was "Mr. Glass" ?
doubleblue
09-08-2016, 04:34 PM
Well I hate to say I told you so Barker and Milanovich. Wouldn't bring in the best Offensive Linemen available for the right side of the line, and wouldn't bring in a big tough running back who could block rush ends like Tracey. They could get away with their quest for an all Canadian Line and small RB's if they still had a Collaros type QB who could dodge a rush end. Ricky Ray could have led them to a good season if he was protected properly. Probably could have gotten a way with four Canadians by moving Van Zely in to Guard and find a good shut down right tackle. I would have put Coombes at WR in place of one of the imports to get another good lineman in front of Ricky.
That was a 5 man rush against 6 Argos blockers and Tracey still came in untouched. Very frustrating to watch it all unfold
AngeloV
09-08-2016, 04:34 PM
........... but I thought Collaros was "Mr. Glass" ?
Did you have fun posting that?
ArgoGabe22
09-08-2016, 04:41 PM
........... but I thought Collaros was "Mr. Glass" ?
How is this funny?
gilthethrill
09-08-2016, 04:46 PM
Oh Crap.
Shipyard
09-08-2016, 04:48 PM
heard that lefevour next up at QB
Find that hard to believe given how complicated the Argos offence is (he only been here a month) and his playing style (tim tebow-like)
How is this funny?
Not meant to be funny.
As much as some may be tempted, it isn't the time to start beating your chest about the "told 'ya so's."
bigzee19
09-08-2016, 05:01 PM
Definitely don't regret not getting season tickets now for sure.....
argofan81
09-08-2016, 05:07 PM
I believe they took it down, as the link is not available, and when I go to CFL.CA nothing there.
Yes seems that it is down; maybe premature posting? I first got the notification from 'The Score' app on my phone so not sure what the real deal is.
paulwoods13
09-08-2016, 05:26 PM
Well I hate to say I told you so Barker and Milanovich. Wouldn't bring in the best Offensive Linemen available for the right side of the line, and wouldn't bring in a big tough running back who could block rush ends like Tracey. They could get away with their quest for an all Canadian Line and small RB's if they still had a Collaros type QB who could dodge a rush end. Ricky Ray could have led them to a good season if he was protected properly. Probably could have gotten a way with four Canadians by moving Van Zely in to Guard and find a good shut down right tackle. I would have put Coombes at WR in place of one of the imports to get another good lineman in front of Ricky.
That was a 5 man rush against 6 Argos blockers and Tracey still came in untouched. Very frustrating to watch it all unfold
Who are the best offensive linemen barker should have signed?
paulwoods13
09-08-2016, 05:29 PM
He's out for the season according to yahoo
https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/cfl-55-yard-line/ricky-ray-out-for-rest-of-the-season-with-punctured-lung--according-to-zurkowsky-195604763.html
No. He is out for the season according to Herb Zurkowsky of the Gazette. He is the only source cited by Yahoo. There is no actual reporting in its report other than a tweet by HZ that it read and built a story around.
ArgoRavi
09-08-2016, 05:35 PM
heard that lefevour next up at QB
Find that hard to believe given how complicated the Argos offence is (he only been here a month) and his playing style (tim tebow-like)
IF Ray is out then I hope that Lefevour is the next guy up as Kilgore just doesn't appear to be ready at this point. One month with the offence should be good enough for a vet like Lefevour.
LeFevour the Savior!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_mrNQBLSMU
heard that lefevour next up at QB
Obviously.
argotom
09-08-2016, 05:46 PM
As much as some may be tempted, it isn't the time to start beating your chest about the "told 'ya so's."
Again, I say why not?
Especially when many here lead by Angelo were equally thumping however belligerent in their cause.
I specifically lead the charge and hoped this would not happen either through injury and or retirement.
I take no pleasure in this what has been proven was mismanagement by Barker and Milanovich.
Hence my other thread of firing one and or both most definitely is applicable now.
http://www.tsn.ca/argos-mum-on-ray-s-status-1.563295
Willy, Glenn, Burris, Durant ? No thanks.
IMO finish the season with what we have, then go after Franklin or Jensen in the off season.
http://www.tsn.ca/argos-mum-on-ray-s-status-1.563295
Willy, Glenn, Burris, Durant ? No thanks.
IMO finish the season with what we have, then go after Franklin or Jensen in the off season.
I'd really like to see in the mix development of a young QB with lots of potential... and this time keep the Next QB instead of gifting other teams (a.k.a. opponents).
http://www.tsn.ca/argos-mum-on-ray-s-status-1.563295
Willy, Glenn, Burris, Durant ? No thanks.
IMO finish the season with what we have
I completely agree with the above text.
Even with Ray, making the post-season was looking unlikely. The last thing the team needs is for its future to be kneecapped by the cost (players, picks, dollars) of acquiring a QB retread ("veteran") from another team.
Finally, LeFevour is a veteran for crying out loud.
doubleblue
09-08-2016, 07:02 PM
Who are the best offensive linemen barker should have signed?
How should I know, I'm not paid to scout for them. I'm only a lowly ticket buyer. There's around 130 Div I schools down south with around half of them graduating starting Right Tackles every year. If anyone of them was a Canadian they would high on the CFL draft list and long time starters. They got to pay them more than the minimum though to get some of the better ones up here. Probably easier to look at the overflow from the NFL with two or three years pro experience, but they're out there if the price is right. But not for 52,000 Canadian. I'm Van Zely is making three times that amount. :biteme:
paulwoods13
09-08-2016, 07:02 PM
I'd really like to see in the mix development of a young QB with lots of potential... and this time keep the Next QB instead of gifting other teams (a.k.a. opponents).
We have two young QBs with lots of potential: Fajardo and (despite what many concluded based on two bad games where he was far from the only problem) Kilgore. Bolles may become one as well. Get some more, sure -- at least one will probably pan out. Two of our backups from 2012 appear to have panned out nicely (I say "appeared to" because IMO the jury's still out to some degree on Harris).
argotom
09-08-2016, 07:06 PM
We have two young QBs with lots of potential: Fajardo and (despite what many concluded based on two bad games where he was far from the only problem) Kilgore. Bolles may become one as well. Get some more, sure -- at least one will probably pan out. Two of our backups from 2012 appear to have panned out nicely (I say "appeared to" because IMO the jury's still out to some degree on Harris).
No idea the make up of your jury, but mine has rendered it's decision a long time ago.
paulwoods13
09-08-2016, 07:10 PM
How should I know, I'm not paid to scout for them. I'm only a lowly ticket buyer. There's around 130 Div I schools down south with around half of them graduating starting Right Tackles every year. If anyone of them was a Canadian they would high on the CFL draft list and long time starters. They got to pay them more than the minimum though to get some of the better ones up here. Probably easier to look at the overflow from the NFL with two or three years pro experience, but they're out there if the price is right. But not for 52,000 Canadian. I'm Van Zely is making three times that amount. :biteme:
"It's not up to me to know" and "they're out there if the price is right" is a copout when criticism of that sort is levelled. Canadians who can start at tackle in Div 1 get drafted in this league, as you seem to know. You can't just "sign" them. Are you saying we missed drafting someone we should have? Are you saying there are free agent INT o-linemen who could have been signed but weren't? If that's true, then aren't eight other CFL teams also missing the boat on those players?
If good offensive linemen capable of playing Cdn football grew on trees, every team would have lots of them. I'd be the first to agree that Barker has not brought in good INT o-linemen -- other than SirVincent Rogers, who did not little to nothing in his time here. Jarriel King and Bruce Campbell were OK, but neither was all-star calibre. But to say he failed to sign the best offensive linemen and as a result Ricky got injured is a simplistic analysis IMO.
doubleblue
09-08-2016, 07:11 PM
We have two young QBs with lots of potential: Fajardo and (despite what many concluded based on two bad games where he was far from the only problem) Kilgore. Bolles may become one as well. Get some more, sure -- at least one will probably pan out. Two of our backups from 2012 appear to have panned out nicely (I say "appeared to" because IMO the jury's still out to some degree on Harris).
Well IMO the jury is going to out a lot longer on Kilgore than it ever will be on Harris.
Are you saying we missed drafting someone we should have?
I'll say it. I was pretty vocal about drafting one of St. John, Gagnon, Vaillancourt (if we could get him), Lauzon-Seguin, Guy and Couture.
I like Brian Jones, but we all knew we needed help on the offensive line.
paulwoods13
09-08-2016, 07:23 PM
I'll say it. I was pretty vocal about drafting one of St. John, Gagnon, Vaillancourt (if we could get him), Lauzon-Seguin, Guy and Couture.
I like Brian Jones, but we all knew we needed help on the offensive line.
And I don't fundamentally disagree with that. I'd add Revenberg to the list as well. But the poster to whom I was responding suggested Barker had failed to sign the best offensive linemen, and as a result our QB got injured. Not one of the guys listed above would have been starting and playing well enough at offensive tackle this year that Adrian Tracy would never have ploughed into Ricky Ray.
And I don't fundamentally disagree with that. I'd add Revenberg to the list as well. But the poster to whom I was responding suggested Barker had failed to sign the best offensive linemen, and as a result our QB got injured. Not one of the guys listed above would have been starting and playing well enough at offensive tackle this year that Adrian Tracy would never have ploughed into Ricky Ray.
Bourke was "the best" FA linemen, so we did get that, but in hindsight it's looking like a mistake, especially considering Bourke's supposed contract numbers. The Tracy sack happened because Van Zeyl didn't even notice him (he was right in front/beside him though), and took the wrong guy.
Seguin has been starting at Guard and Right Tackle for the Redblacks, Vaillancourt at Guard for the Lions, Gagnon at Guard I believe.
AngeloV
09-08-2016, 07:54 PM
http://www.tsn.ca/argos-mum-on-ray-s-status-1.563295
Willy, Glenn, Burris, Durant ? No thanks.
IMO finish the season with what we have, then go after Franklin or Jensen in the off season.
Jensen? Why because he looked ok in one game against the worst team in the league and a game in which they lost? You really are in love with that RedBlacks assistant GM, huh?
AngeloV
09-08-2016, 08:02 PM
And I don't fundamentally disagree with that. I'd add Revenberg to the list as well. But the poster to whom I was responding suggested Barker had failed to sign the best offensive linemen, and as a result our QB got injured. Not one of the guys listed above would have been starting and playing well enough at offensive tackle this year that Adrian Tracy would never have ploughed into Ricky Ray.
I think the abuse of the Argos O-line is so overblown, it's not even funny. They have given up 26 sacks in 10 games. 1 more than Hamilton, 2 more than Winnipeg and 3 more than BC. Edmonton is tops in the league with 20, and let's be honest, how many sacks has Reilly saved them from?
Stevoman
09-09-2016, 12:22 AM
If Ray is done, so also then go the chances of playoffs for this year. Zero expectations from here on out except for seeing what we've got. It looks to me like the Argos are going to have to go into a rebuilding stage but at least things can change quickly in the CFL. If the punctured lung rumour is true than Ricky Ray is one tough dude and while I had also hoped that they had kept Harris (even at Ray's expense), I have had no problems with Ray in as quarterback this year and I am truly disappointed for him as he suffers through another injury. He is not a fragile quarterback but was left way too exposed and I can't believe he even finished the game.
Jayahre
09-09-2016, 09:35 AM
If Ray is done, so also then go the chances of playoffs for this year. Zero expectations from here on out except for seeing what we've got. It looks to me like the Argos are going to have to go into a rebuilding stage but at least things can change quickly in the CFL. If the punctured lung rumour is true than Ricky Ray is one tough dude and while I had also hoped that they had kept Harris (even at Ray's expense), I have had no problems with Ray in as quarterback this year and I am truly disappointed for him as he suffers through another injury. He is not a fragile quarterback but was left way too exposed and I can't believe he even finished the game.
It was going to be a struggle anyway to make the playoffs, with Hamilton and Ottawa battling for first and the West a lot stronger this year.
BC and Winnipeg are much better teams this year and a West crossover is certain.
Losing Ray is a huge blow and the faint chance of a playoff spot is gone.
I had predicted an Argo win this weekend at home but without Ray that Ticat "D" line will be putting too much pressure on Lefevour or Kilgore.
paulwoods13
09-09-2016, 10:12 AM
I think it's too soon to declare crossover as "certain" since the distance between Edm and Tor is just one game, with eight to go. That said, by the end of this wknd the chances could be very high.
without Ray that Ticat "D" line will be putting too much pressure on Lefevour or Kilgore.
I assume, and desperately hope, that Kilgore won't see the field.
Last game, the Ti-Cat D made the Argos' offensive line look like a sieve. Still, I expect that the Ti-Cat D will exert appreciably less pressure on LeFevour than it did on Ray, as the former is rather gifted when it comes to mobility.
I think it's too soon to declare crossover as "certain" since the distance between Edm and Tor is just one game, with eight to go. That said, by the end of this wknd the chances could be very high.
If you honestly think the Argonauts will make the playoffs, I've got some magic beans for yeah.
I assume, and desperately hope, that Kilgore won't see the field.
I'd expect that the Ti-Cat D will exert significantly less pressure on LeFevour than it did on Ray, as the former is rather gifted when it comes to mobility.
The problem with Lefevour is his arm, but we should at leas have a running game this week.
If you honestly think the Argonauts will make the playoffs, I've got some magic beans for yeah.
The problem with Lefevour is his arm, but we should at leas have a running game this week.
IIRC, LeFevour did look good throwing the ball leading up to his injury (when he was starting for the Ti-Cats).
FenderGuy69
09-09-2016, 10:47 AM
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https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/736674850585088001/QgWpz3Iq_bigger.jpgMatthew Scianitti@TSNScianitti (https://twitter.com/TSNScianitti)
#CFL (https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFL?src=hash) sources: Ricky Ray doesn't have punctured lung. Lung partially deflated. Fine now. Has rib fracture. Season not done.Out 4-6 wks #Argos (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Argos?src=hash)
paulwoods13
09-09-2016, 10:51 AM
If you honestly think the Argonauts will make the playoffs, I've got some magic beans for yeah.
I think the word you want is "ya," not "yeah," but in any event I said no such thing (as I'm sure you know).
Neely2005
09-09-2016, 11:23 AM
Is Argos QB Ricky Ray hurt, or not?
http://m.torontosun.com/2016/09/08/is-argos-qb-ricky-ray-hurt-or-not
FenderGuy69
09-09-2016, 11:25 AM
Future Opponents Average Record for last 8 games:
Toronto = .53125
Ottawa = .53125
Hamilton = .44375
Edmonton = .51875
Winnipeg = .54375
SportsClubStats has Toronto's chance of making the playoffs at 27.9% right now. http://www.sportsclubstats.com/football/Canada/CFL.html
We all know home field advantage has whipsawed this year but anyways ...
Toronto home 3 of last 8
Ottawa home 4 of last 8
Hamilton home 5 of last 8
Edmonton home 3 of last 8
Winnipeg home 5 of last 8
Crossover team has to be ahead in the standings, not just tied. Edmonton has a 2 point lead in the standings right now. The season finale in Edmonton may very well determine the playoff participants.
Is Argos QB Ricky Ray hurt, or not?
http://m.torontosun.com/2016/09/08/is-argos-qb-ricky-ray-hurt-or-not
Ray's not "Mr. Glass", so he should be fine.
argotom
09-09-2016, 01:28 PM
If this does not result in the team either cutting him at year end or forcing retirement well then the management team is even more incompetent then what I thought.
doubleblue
09-09-2016, 01:37 PM
4-6 weeks cracked rib and perforated lung. I don't think Ricky had on a flak jacket like many of the QB have started wearing. Might have saved his ribs. Sounded like Milanovich tried to keep this a secret so Hamilton wouldn't know who was starting until the last minuet so to speak. Hard to keep a secret these days. At least Lefevour gives them another running option besides Whitaker.
Neely2005
09-09-2016, 02:40 PM
........... but I thought Collaros was "Mr. Glass" ?
Ray's not "Mr. Glass", so he should be fine.
Last I checked Collaros has missed more games than Ray so far this season.
argotom
09-09-2016, 03:01 PM
Last I checked Collaros has missed more games than Ray so far this season.
Maybe up until now, however unlike Ray he has shot the lights out since returning.
There is no comparison between the two, ability and age being the crucial.
gilthethrill
09-09-2016, 07:10 PM
For Ray to finish that game on Monday in that condition, that's toughness personified.
Argo57
09-09-2016, 07:59 PM
If this does not result in the team either cutting him at year end or forcing retirement well then the management team is even more incompetent then what I thought.
Ray has to be both disappointed and concerned with the number of injuries he has sustained in the last couple of years and doesn't strike me as the type who will hang around if he feels he can't contribute.
One thing I'm sure of is any discussion in regards to Ray's playing future will be handled respectfully and with class.
argotom
09-09-2016, 08:06 PM
Ray has to be both disappointed and concerned with the number of injuries he has sustained in the last couple of years and doesn't strike me as the type who will hang around if he feels he can't contribute.
One thing I'm sure of is any discussion in regards to Ray's playing future will be handled respectfully and with class.
He does appear to be a classy guy, which has never been an issue for me.
Eventually to enter unanimously in the hall of fame.
ArgoZ
09-09-2016, 08:37 PM
If this does not result in the team either cutting him at year end or forcing retirement well then the management team is even more incompetent then what I thought.
He does appear to be a classy guy, which has never been an issue for me.
Eventually to enter unanimously in the hall of fame.
Come on man. That's some pretty disappointing and contradicting comments only a few hours apart. You have borderline hated Ray, mostly due to your affection for another QB, which never made any sense.
Argoknot
09-09-2016, 09:06 PM
A while back at another forum no one would believe me when I said Winnipeg wasn't as bad as their record indicated and Willy wasn't that bad a QB, they just needed time and not to panic. While I still believe in Willy, I was vindicated on the other point.
Which brings me to LeFevour. When he was with the Cats, I really thought he'd be the next big thing. If after all the moving around he still has something left from those days I think he could turn his career around and do something special. Here's hoping.
argotom
09-09-2016, 09:14 PM
Come on man. That's some pretty disappointing and contradicting comments only a few hours apart. You have borderline hated Ray, mostly due to your affection for another QB, which never made any sense.
What does his personality have to do with playing ability or lack thereof?
argotom
09-09-2016, 09:16 PM
A while back at another forum no one would believe me when I said Winnipeg wasn't as bad as their record indicated and Willy wasn't that bad a QB, they just needed time and not to panic. While I still believe in Willy, I was vindicated on the other point.
Which brings me to LeFevour. When he was with the Cats, I really thought he'd be the next big thing. If after all the moving around he still has something left from those days I think he could turn his career around and do something special. Here's hoping.
I agree with you on him.
Although having an average arm at best, there is no question his running ability is the key rolling out of the pocket and making things happen.
Argoknot
09-11-2016, 09:59 PM
A while back at another forum no one would believe me when I said Winnipeg wasn't as bad as their record indicated and Willy wasn't that bad a QB, they just needed time and not to panic. While I still believe in Willy, I was vindicated on the other point.
Which brings me to LeFevour. When he was with the Cats, I really thought he'd be the next big thing. If after all the moving around he still has something left from those days I think he could turn his career around and do something special. Here's hoping.Ahem...
1971GreyCup
09-23-2016, 07:33 AM
Watched some of the Patriots vs Texan game last night. A couple of takeaways. $72 million on a QB is a waste of money if you don't have an effective OC or offensive system. If you have the right HC, OC and DC and associated systems, you can lose a Hall of Fame QB and his backup an not skip a beat. Patriots do this while avoid marquee players and instead plug and play lots of middle of the road and older players. Belichick is a genius.
Neely2005
10-01-2016, 06:32 PM
........... but I thought Collaros was "Mr. Glass" ?
Oh he is.
PullTogether73
10-01-2016, 06:59 PM
Oh he is.
LOL!
I was SOOOOO waiting for you to make some comment about Collaros' injury.
LOL!!!
Neely2005
10-02-2016, 10:42 AM
LOL!
I was SOOOOO waiting for you to make some comment about Collaros' injury.
LOL!!!
Hee hee.
:)
1971GreyCup
10-04-2016, 04:16 PM
Gary Lawless figures Ricky Ray is finished and SM and Barker seem to agree.
http://www.tsn.ca/video/what-does-the-future-hold-for-ricky-ray~965315
ArgoRavi
10-04-2016, 08:48 PM
Gary Lawless figures Ricky Ray is finished and SM and Barker seem to agree.
http://www.tsn.ca/video/what-does-the-future-hold-for-ricky-ray~965315
Sounds like Ray is finished as a starter but will play a similar role as Travis Lulay is doing in B.C.
gilthethrill
10-04-2016, 09:11 PM
Sounds like Ray is finished as a starter but will play a similar role as Travis Lulay is doing in B.C.
Too bad. I would rather have Ray play ahead of Willy.
OV Argo
10-04-2016, 11:42 PM
Too bad. I would rather have Ray play ahead of Willy.
Yep; and anybody who thinks Willy should play ahead of Ray (even at 80% healthy say) is .... umm, I'm lost for words here ;o)
1971GreyCup
10-06-2016, 09:02 AM
"Ricky Ray is our #1 QB" 2013 - Collaras leaves. Understandable
"Ricky Ray is our #1 QB" 2015 - Harris leaves
"Willy is our #1 QB" 2016 - Ricky Ray stays?
Curious
mchesher03
10-06-2016, 09:16 AM
This year's more or less toast. If Drew Willy is carrying the torch into next year, I'm extremely un-excited for 2017 and no doubt another year of missing the playoffs. Think we're going to see some wholesale changes this off-season, this year has not exactly gone according to plan here to say the least.
Antwon
10-06-2016, 01:05 PM
Ownership and the president have been very quiet with all the stuff going on. They gave JB&SM full power for this year and it blew up real bad.
I would think/hope everyone is playing for jobs next year.
Ray can come back as a backup, but if Willy shows no improvement over the last 4 games it will be hard for SM to say he's the QB for next year.
Again based on the last 4 games...If they are a mess then I can't see them buying JB&SM's plans for next year.
If the games are strong and show promises, then maybe they are back.
1971GreyCup
10-08-2016, 02:11 PM
Toronto Star tweeted Argos article:
"Ray OK with backup role: After naming Drew Willy his starting quarterback for the rest of the season, Milanovich said that Ricky Ray was on board with being the team’s backup when he comes off of the six-game injured list.
“I talked to Ricky about it even prior to when we got Drew. He’s been in the loop all the way,” Milanovich said.
“I know Ricky’s disappointed with the injuries that he’s had. I think there’s some degree of feeling like he let us down, let me down and that couldn’t be further from the truth. I think he understands; whether he loves it or not, I think he understands why this was a move that needed to be made.”
Ray won’t be available for comment until he is back on the Argos’ active roster."
I guess he's fine with it, but curiously he won't say it?
Reggiemac
10-08-2016, 03:54 PM
I blame Bourque for our lost season. his poor play on Rickys knee injury started our downfall. And I wonder if Ricky will everbplay again given his recent injury woes. Maybe a qb coaching gig somewhere? I would like to start Mabenana at RB and Fajardo at QB and hope our DBs get healthy to salvage our season. And I support the cutting of the big 3 receivers. If they cant play effectively I would rather give the reps to our young guys, they have a future.I predict big things for Noel and Jones. Play them!
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Look who's back? Ricky Ray taking first-team reps at practice after completing six-game injury stint. Suggests to me he starts in Calgary.</p>— Dan Ralph (@danralphcp) <a href="https://twitter.com/danralphcp/status/788061169563078656">October 17, 2016</a></blockquote>
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1971GreyCup
10-17-2016, 01:50 PM
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I don't know what to think of SM and JB now. Willy had their 100% support for how long, 1 1/2 games? I don't think it's a mistake with Ricky Ray back at the helm, but surely the message to the team and to the fans is inconsistent at best. Was their 100% confidence in DW a rationalization of the big price they paid to get him? Now it looks like a very expensive interim QB.
Hopefully, Ricky will finish up the season intact. I suspect it may be the last the CFL will see of RR.
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Wobbler
10-17-2016, 01:59 PM
I'd say we have an obligation to field our best lineup until we're eliminated. Starting Ray would be an admission that Willy hasn't been effective enough, but I don't think that would do much harm; *everything* will be reassessed in the offseason.
doubleblue
10-17-2016, 02:08 PM
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<script async="" src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> Do you think JB and SM all of a sudden have seen the light, and seeing Drew Willy up close that he's is not a starting QB right now or maybe never. Miracles still happen though. Maybe he will find that God given ability to hit an open receiver 40-50 yards down field. It sure isn't something they can coach or teach.
But I sure hope they don't hang Ricky out to dry again with no help for that offensive line. I think everybody in the League knows the game plan. Run Whitaker for two, than check down for five, punt, check down, quick out to Coombs for five, punt. Do that ten times and try to go over the top for 6. With Ricky one has a chance, as long as he doesn't get hurt again.<iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: none;"></iframe>
While Willy doesn't deserve to start, IMO it's time to move on from Ray as a starter. LeFevour and Kilgore should finish off the season, then in the off season find a young QB to lead this team.
AngeloV
10-17-2016, 02:42 PM
While Willy doesn't deserve to start, IMO it's time to move on from Ray as a starter. LeFevour and Kilgore should finish off the season, then in the off season find a young QB to lead this team.
Should definitely be Kilgore. We know what Lefevour has. We need to see if Kilgore has progressed at all. I guess as long as there is a mathematical chance, the theory is you try to start your best team, but I personally would play Kilgore the last 2 games.
Should definitely be Kilgore. We know what Lefevour has. We need to see if Kilgore has progressed at all. I guess as long as there is a mathematical chance, the theory is you try to start your best team, but I personally would play Kilgore the last 2 games.
I agree, but if Kilgore struggles badly: put in Lefevour. The way I see it those two are the only ones that should see the field. I'd bring back Lefevour next season as backup/short yardage QB, Kilgore and Fajardo as well. No issue if Ray comes back, but solely as a backup and I think he'd have to take less money (we need more to spread around to other positions).
AngeloV
10-17-2016, 02:49 PM
I agree, but if Kilgore struggles badly: put in Lefevour. The way I see it those two are the only ones that should see the field. I'd bring back Lefevour next season as backup/short yardage QB, Kilgore and Fajardo as well. No issue if Ray comes back, but solely as a backup and I think he'd have to take less money (we need more to spread around to other positions).
No use even speculating who the QB's will be next year. All depends on what happens with management.
No use even speculating who the QB's will be next year. All depends on what happens with management.
True enough.
So Drew's hurt, and could be on the one game IR this week. I have a gut feeling this move would've happened anyways.
https://soundcloud.com/user-61370436/scott-milanovich-october-17
gilthethrill
10-17-2016, 04:23 PM
So Drew's hurt, and could be on the one game IR this week. I have a gut feeling this move would've happened anyways.
https://soundcloud.com/user-61370436/scott-milanovich-october-17
He isn't hurt. Paper move.
He isn't hurt. Paper move.
He looked emotionally hurt on the sidelines and I cannot blame him. Again, I wouldn't have (a) named him starter for the remainder of the season (b) continued to play him after his first loss. His starting was doing no one any good... evaluate him through training camp and the exhibition games next season.
[Clean house in the offseason.]
No use even speculating who the QB's will be next year. All depends on what happens with management.
Willy will start because that's who HC Milo wants.
Willy will start because that's who HC Milo wants.
Whatz U smokin', bro ?! : ))
AngeloV
10-17-2016, 06:41 PM
Willy will start because that's who HC Milo wants.
I don't know. Reports of him being due a roster bonus of 100k in January may leave the Argos with no choice but to release him. He certainly hasn't shown to be worth the reported 400k he's due to make next year.
I don't know. Reports of him being due a roster bonus of 100k in January may leave the Argos with no choice but to release him. He certainly hasn't shown to be worth the reported 400k he's due to make next year.
Could always restructure before January, and then I suppose if Willy balks, they release him. That would make the trade look even worse though (yes, it's possible).
AngeloV
10-17-2016, 07:17 PM
Could always restructure before January, and then I suppose if Willy balks, they release him. That would make the trade look even worse though (yes, it's possible).
I'm not worried about how the trade looks. Like you, I don't think Heath is all that great. A lot of balls get thrown his way, similar to Geoff Tisdale, and nobody thought much of him. As for the draft picks, they can make up for it by picking well the rest of the draft. Taylor Loffler wasn't a first round pick, but just may have been the best pick in the draft.
doubleblue
10-17-2016, 07:38 PM
He isn't hurt. Paper move.
LOL. But he did take some hard hits as any Argo QB will this year behind that line.
So as others have said we could have gone with Lefevour and Kilgore for three games and be no worse off in the standings. Plus still having the #1 pick next spring. This isn't a deep draft IMO so that could hurt things down the road, especially where the pick will be. Top two. There's only a few real good ones and then it's crap shoot after that.
Stevoman
10-17-2016, 07:50 PM
At least it's a positive sign that they are going with Ray this week in place of Willy and hopefully realize that Willy likely isn't the long term answer. Stupid trade but there's nothing wrong with moving on from a mistake.
Antwon
10-17-2016, 08:06 PM
So Drew's hurt, and could be on the one game IR this week. I have a gut feeling this move would've happened anyways.
https://soundcloud.com/user-61370436/scott-milanovich-october-17
SM admits to starting Willy too soon before he was comfortable with the offence. What the hell is going on down there!?!?!?!?!
Neely2005
10-17-2016, 08:32 PM
Sorry guys I was booing Willy pretty loudly so I may have hurt his feelings.
Sorry guys I was booing Willy pretty loudly so I may have hurt his feelings.
I think against Calgary fans were booing the team more so than Willy, but it was clear against Saskatchewan who fans were booing.
OV Argo
10-17-2016, 09:02 PM
LOL. But he did take some hard hits as any Argo QB will this year behind that line.
So as others have said we could have gone with Lefevour and Kilgore for three games and be no worse off in the standings. Plus still having the #1 pick next spring. This isn't a deep draft IMO so that could hurt things down the road, especially where the pick will be. Top two. There's only a few real good ones and then it's crap shoot after that.
Mighta been nice for the Argos to have a shot at drafting those 2 big MLB prospects (guy out of Maine, and Herdman out of SFU) but oh well, we got Willy instead. Also a couple of big DT prospects next draft - another area of need for the Argos; but oh well.
argotom
10-17-2016, 09:24 PM
SM admits to starting Willy too soon before he was comfortable with the offence. What the hell is going on down there!?!?!?!?!
It appears quite clear to me SM is out of his element.
Add Barker to the mix for the horrid trading to get Willy.
Argo57
10-17-2016, 10:05 PM
SM admits to starting Willy too soon before he was comfortable with the offence. What the hell is going on down there!?!?!?!?!
The excuses continue to fly, sounds like a load of BS to me.
Willy is a professional QB who has been taking first team reps for a while, give me a break!!
doubleblue
10-18-2016, 09:17 AM
At least it's a positive sign that they are going with Ray this week in place of Willy and hopefully realize that Willy likely isn't the long term answer. Stupid trade but there's nothing wrong with moving on from a mistake.
Nothing wrong with moving on without the ones who made the trade.
Antwon
10-18-2016, 09:19 AM
The excuses continue to fly, sounds like a load of BS to me.
Willy is a professional QB who has been taking first team reps for a while, give me a break!!
SM says there's no excuses for how the team has played recently, then throws out excuses!
If Willy is not used to the offence yet, me thinks it's time for the scheme and head coach to go!
I actually think SM and Austin's playbooks suffer from the same thing. When the #1 QB is healthy, and O-line is good...the offense can work.
But take either away and it's sunk. Weak O-line and the QB doesn't have time for ALL THE READS, and they take a pounding. 2nd or 3rd string QB not good enough to go through all the reads!
AngeloV
10-18-2016, 11:22 AM
The excuses continue to fly, sounds like a load of BS to me.
Willy is a professional QB who has been taking first team reps for a while, give me a break!!
I don't see it as an excuse. I see the coach trying to deflect the criticism from one of his players onto himself. That's what good coaches do.
Antwon
10-18-2016, 12:11 PM
I don't see it as an excuse. I see the coach trying to deflect the criticism from one of his players onto himself. That's what good coaches do.
Is this also what good coaches do...no that's what desperate coaches do!!
“Drew was been put in a difficult situation,” Milanovich said. “And probably [was] put in there too soon for him to really, truly, be comfortable with what we’re doing and then ask him to succeed and that’s on me."
ArgoGabe22
10-18-2016, 12:39 PM
Is this also what good coaches do...no that's what desperate coaches do!!
“Drew was been put in a difficult situation,” Milanovich said. “And probably [was] put in there too soon for him to really, truly, be comfortable with what we’re doing and then ask him to succeed and that’s on me."
It's not like our QB situation wasn't difficult. Once your starting QB goes down, it complicates things. I would put more blame on Barker, for not having a clear plan B when Ray goes down. Given his history, it was likely for him to go down again this season. Did Barker do enough to have capable QBs in camp. Both McPherson and LeFevour signed late.
1971GreyCup
10-18-2016, 12:58 PM
I don't see it as an excuse. I see the coach trying to deflect the criticism from one of his players onto himself. That's what good coaches do.
And apparently bad coaches too.
Sorry, just couldn't help it.
Wobbler
10-18-2016, 01:03 PM
But take either away and it's sunk. Weak O-line and the QB doesn't have time for ALL THE READS, and they take a pounding. 2nd or 3rd string QB not good enough to go through all the reads!
I think it is even simpler than that. There have been plenty of possessions recently where our QB has had lots of time and has visibly gone through as many as four reads, but has either taken off with the ball or checked down because no one was open. Our schemes and personnel are not creating open receivers often enough. The main reason for that, I suspect, is something Angelo mentioned earlier - the league has figured out how to defend our offense.
Does Milanovich deserve some blame for failing to evolve and adapt our strategy? Yup. Is getting rid of him the answer? Maybe.
I don't see it as an excuse. I see the coach trying to deflect the criticism from one of his players onto himself. That's what good coaches do.
One could also argue that good coaches don't put players into bad situations where they'll struggle to succeed.
AngeloV
10-18-2016, 04:22 PM
One could also argue that good coaches don't put players into bad situations where they'll struggle to succeed.
One could also argue they had no real choice.
Forget the hate on for Milanovich for a minute everyone. Milanovich took the blame on himself and not on his player here. He deserves credit for that.
One could also argue they had no real choice.
Forget the hate on for Milanovich for a minute everyone. Milanovich took the blame on himself and not on his player here. He deserves credit for that.
One could argue there were two other choices.
As for the second part: I've said multiple times that Milanovich is a classy individual.
argonaut11xx
10-18-2016, 05:12 PM
If SM starts Ricky Ray behind that poor excuse of an O-Line, I honestly think that the coach and GM seriously want Rays career as an Argo to end, he could get killed.
Ray is a proud future hall of famer, who played with a deflated lung, and broken rib last game. Let him end his career gracefully.
If SM starts Ricky Ray behind that poor excuse of an O-Line, I honestly think that the coach and GM seriously want Rays career as an Argo to end, he could get killed.
Ray is a proud future hall of famer, who played with a deflated lung, and broken rib last game. Let him end his career gracefully.
I have already agreed with you. B & M are the two inmates running the asylum.
argoscott
10-18-2016, 07:46 PM
If SM starts Ricky Ray behind that poor excuse of an O-Line, I honestly think that the coach and GM seriously want Rays career as an Argo to end, he could get killed.
Ray is a proud future hall of famer, who played with a deflated lung, and broken rib last game. Let him end his career gracefully.
Sorry but who said the OLINE was a problem?
Reminds me of Doug Flutie in Buffalo (I was only watching because of Flutie our CFL Ambassador during his 2nd NFL career)
Rob Johnson was getting sacked like a rag doll, Flutie goes in no problem, early on Bills Coach said we need to fix the OLINE, Oline coach Carl Mauck finally says enough is enough, tells media the o-line is just fine thank you when Flutie is in
Willy reminds me of Rob Johnson
argoscott
10-18-2016, 07:49 PM
It's not like our QB situation wasn't difficult. Once your starting QB goes down, it complicates things. I would put more blame on Barker, for not having a clear plan B when Ray goes down. Given his history, it was likely for him to go down again this season. Did Barker do enough to have capable QBs in camp. Both McPherson and LeFevour signed late.
Dan LeF... is very good and was just what the Dr ordered, McPherson should never even have been brought in. They should have brought Michael Bishop in, but I am good with Dan F absolutely
It's not like our QB situation wasn't difficult. Once your starting QB goes down, it complicates things. I would put more blame on Barker, for not having a clear plan B when Ray goes down. Given his history, it was likely for him to go down again this season. Did Barker do enough to have capable QBs in camp. Both McPherson and LeFevour signed late.
Not like Ray was lighting it up when he was playing. I still think Barker gets way too much blame for what's going on in Argoland.
Sorry but who said the OLINE was a problem?
Reminds me of Doug Flutie in Buffalo (I was only watching because of Flutie our CFL Ambassador during his 2nd NFL career)
Rob Johnson was getting sacked like a rag doll, Flutie goes in no problem, early on Bills Coach said we need to fix the OLINE, Oline coach Carl Mauck finally says enough is enough, tells media the o-line is just fine thank you when Flutie is in
Willy reminds me a of Rob Johnson
Do you think our offensive line has been playing well this season ?
Dan LeF... is very good and was just what the Dr ordered, McPherson should never even have been brought in. They should have brought Michael Bishop in, but I am good with Dan F absolutely
LeFevour very good ? Bring back Bishop ?
argoscott
10-18-2016, 07:57 PM
Not like Ray was lighting it up when he was playing. I still think Barker gets way too much blame for what's going on in Argoland.
Do you think our offensive line has been playing well this season ?
LeFevour very good ? Bring back Bishop ?
I was only saying Bishop as apposed to McPherson, yes Bishop was great, I am very happy with Dan Lef... as QB
AS for the O-LINE I was referring to all the excuses for Willy, no I dont think the OLINE is a huge problem
paulwoods13
10-18-2016, 09:39 PM
I was only saying Bishop as apposed to McPherson, yes Bishop was great, I am very happy with Dan Lef... as QB
AS for the O-LINE I was referring to all the excuses for Willy, no I dont think the OLINE is a huge problem
I guess that means we disagree on both points: LeFevour's ability and the o-line's ability.
ArgoZ
10-19-2016, 12:33 AM
Sorry but who said the OLINE was a problem?
Reminds me of Doug Flutie in Buffalo (I was only watching because of Flutie our CFL Ambassador during his 2nd NFL career)
Rob Johnson was getting sacked like a rag doll, Flutie goes in no problem, early on Bills Coach said we need to fix the OLINE, Oline coach Carl Mauck finally says enough is enough, tells media the o-line is just fine thank you when Flutie is in
Willy reminds me of Rob Johnson
"The line was finally beginning to gel" was the excuse people like WGR550 personality "Coach Dickerson" used. The line of course, somehow, became un-gelled when Johnson was back in. Funny times. Not only was Flutie mobile, but he had the confidence and skill to take throwing shots at small windows. Something Johnson did not, as he would hold on to the ball too long looking for the perfect or safe read (kinda like the Argos present offence). It would be interesting to hear Flutie's views on the Argos problems.
doubleblue
10-19-2016, 02:42 PM
Sorry but who said the OLINE was a problem?
Reminds me of Doug Flutie in Buffalo (I was only watching because of Flutie our CFL Ambassador during his 2nd NFL career)
Rob Johnson was getting sacked like a rag doll, Flutie goes in no problem, early on Bills Coach said we need to fix the OLINE, Oline coach Carl Mauck finally says enough is enough, tells media the o-line is just fine thank you when Flutie is in
Willy reminds me of Rob Johnson
Flutie made all O Lines looks better with his wizardly play. But any QB with a decent set of wheels can do wonders for slowing down a pass rush. Willy holds the ball too long, always has which is a recipe for disaster. Ricky is always vulnerable because the D Line knows where he will be and they just pin their ears back and say giddy up. I still think Lefevour could have worked the Argos through the last three games with the right system designed for him. One has to have a good blocking FB, TE or a pulling Guard to take out the Rush End or LBer to make sure the roll out can work. Would work IMO with Lefevour mixing up some cut back runs with Whitaker. Don't have to roll out every play just mix it up a bit.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/football/cfl/week-17-cfl-picks-redblacks-fighting-for-east-division-crown/
Ricky Ray returns for Toronto. The Argos No. 1 quarterback has healed from a deflated lung and fractured rib suffered in a Labour Day loss to Hamilton. It’s the second time Ray has been out for a period of time in 2016, the 36-year-old went down with a knee injury on July 25, which shelved the veteran passer for three games.
That continues an ongoing theme since Ray arrived in Toronto. Since 2012 there have been 88 regular season games played by the Argos, Ray has missed 38 (over 43 per cent) of them and recorded a 24-26 mark as a starter.
1971GreyCup
11-05-2016, 08:31 AM
Edmonton perspective of the Ricky Ray Trade 5. Years later. Wonderful start for the Argos but overall Argos record Ray's record is 24-27-38 with 38 games missed tipping in Tillmans favourite.
What a difference five years can make. Edmonton Sun
Back on December 12, 2011 former Edmonton Eskimos GM Eric Tillman stunned the CFL by dealing Ricky Ray to the Toronto Argonauts for a first-round pick , quarterback Steven Jyles and kicker Grant Shaw.
Some called it the worst trade in CFL history. Others compared it to the infamous Wayne Gretzky trade. A few even suggested a league-wide conspiracy to bring excitement back to a dead Toronto market.
At the time, Tillman said he expected a strong backlash but seemed surprised by how vicious the criticism was. Those close to him said he felt the trade was best long-term for the Eskimos, and that he hoped for a more patient reaction after helping turn the 2-8 club he inherited mid-season into a winning 11-7 record in his first full year as GM, along with Edmonton's first home playoff win since 2004.
When aggressively challenged on the deal, Tillman spoke with glowing praise of Ray's character, calling him one of the greatest to ever play in the CFL, but defended the deal with concerns about the number of hits the then-32-year-old was starting to take behind what the GM saw as a poor offensive line.
Tillman elaborated further saying he believed Matt Nichols, with development behind Jyles, had the potential to turn into a solid CFL starting quarterback.
Fast-forward five years as Ray returns to Commonwealth for what will be his 90th – and perhaps last – game as a member of the Argos, perspectives may have changed some for anyone who can look back in fairness instead of emotion.
Over his 89 regular-season games with Toronto, Ray's record is 24-27-38 – as in 24 wins as a starter, 27 losses as a starter, and a staggering 38 games missed due to injury. The highlight of his time in Double Blue, of course, was winning the 2012 Grey Cup, with his team catching fire in the playoffs after a 9-9 regular season. But, missing over 40% of his games injured between 2012-16 certainly shows Tillman was correct in part of his assessment.
In fact, five years later, several things have become much clearer:
1) Tillman may have been ahead of many of his critics – media and fans – who didn't share his concerns about Ray's advancing age and future injury concerns. It's hard to argue with more games missed injured than games won.
2) He seems to have been correct about Nichols, too. At age 29, Nichols has emerged as a legitimate starter in Winnipeg. The Blue Bombers finished the season 11-7, and much of that success is related to Nichols passing for 3,666 yards with a near-70% completion percentage while throwing exactly twice as many touchdowns passes as interceptions.
3) The Ray trade would have a significantly different view now, if not for a twist of fate. You can't discuss it fairly without mentioning the elephant in the room. Or, more accurately, the elephant who never made it to the Eskimos locker-room.
With that first-round pick acquired from the Argos, Tillman drafted monster-sized six-foot-seven, 315-pound Canadian offensive lineman Austin Pasztor out of the University of Virginia. After originally singing with Minnesota as an undrafted free agent, he was cut by Vikings in late August. Pasztor flew to Edmonton for the 2012 Labour Day game at Commonwealth Stadium. Only hours away from signing with the Eskimos, he received a call from Jacksonville, who had just lost two offensive lineman to injury. The rest, as they say, is history. Pasztor now has 50-plus games active in the NFL, including 30 starts, mostly at right tackle. And he's still only 25. How many Canadians are good enough to start in the NFL?
So, that twist kept the Eskimos from adding two foundational Canadian offensive lineman in one month, seeing as only days earlier, Tillman had traded veteran American receiver Gregg Carr for Matt O'Donnell, now a fixture in Green and Gold.
Debates aside, the past is mostly the past. Well, except for Saturday, and one last well deserved thunderous ovation for one of the all-time great CFL quarterbacks, Ricky Ray. A true legend and gentleman.
And, while many will debate the merits of that stunning trade made five years ago, none can argue with what followed: The brilliant decision made by Tillman's replacement, Ed Hervey, who traded a third-round draft pick for pending free agent Mike Reilly.
No doubt, the Ray trade on Dec. 11, 2011 rocked the CFL world and played a big role in the decision to fire the controversial Tillman – in spite of his winning record (23-21) as the Eskimos GM. But, the trade made on Jan. 31, 2013 by Hervey, his popular successor, opened the door to a new era and a Grey Cup championship.
And, quite possibly, more.
GModdejonge@postmedia.com
twitter.com/SunModdejonge
Neely2005
11-05-2016, 10:04 AM
http://www.sportsnet.ca/football/cfl/week-17-cfl-picks-redblacks-fighting-for-east-division-crown/
Sounds similar to Mr. Glass with Hamilton who's only played 34 games in 3 seasons. And he was supposed to be More durable because he was 9 years younger.
PullTogether73
11-05-2016, 10:28 AM
Sounds similar to Mr. Glass with Hamilton who's only played 34 games in 3 seasons. And he was supposed to be More durable because he was 9 years younger.
Your "Mr. Glass" nickname for Zach still cracks me up!:D
Sounds similar to Mr. Glass with Hamilton who's only played 34 games in 3 seasons. And he was supposed to be More durable because he was 9 years younger.
And, lo and behold, he's still 9 years younger.
AngeloV
11-05-2016, 11:45 AM
Sounds similar to Mr. Glass with Hamilton who's only played 34 games in 3 seasons. And he was supposed to be More durable because he was 9 years younger.
I've always said that I don' t buy the injury prone label in sports. An injury can happen to any player at any time. Unfortunately, some players are more vulnerable to being in position to get hit more often. That doesn't mean they are not durable.
ArgoRavi
11-05-2016, 11:49 AM
I've always said that I don' t buy the injury prone label in sports. An injury can happen to any player at any time. Unfortunately, some players are more vulnerable to being in position to get hit more often. That doesn't mean they are not durable.
Well said, AV! And btw, while the Edmonton perspective on the Ricky Ray trade may have changed five years later, I am still thrilled that Jim Barker pulled the trigger on that deal. The Argos won the 2012 Grey Cup and have been competitive every season except this one. I firmly believe that Ray still has much to offer if he continues playing.
Sounds similar to Mr. Glass with Hamilton who's only played 34 games in 3 seasons. And he was supposed to be More durable because he was 9 years younger.
Your "Mr. Glass" nickname for Zach still cracks me up!:D
This is what I think is funny............
#1. That "Mr. Glass" was the best Neely could come up with, but it would make Rod Black proud.
#2. That bitterness has taken over, because most think that Collaros is the better QB.
#3. Being offended by "Argos Suck", but taking shots at their QB with a silly nickname is A okay.
AngeloV
11-05-2016, 12:08 PM
Well said, AV! And btw, while the Edmonton perspective on the Ricky Ray trade may have changed five years later, I am still thrilled that Jim Barker pulled the trigger on that deal. The Argos won the 2012 Grey Cup and have been competitive every season except this one. I firmly believe that Ray still has much to offer if he continues playing.
I think he does too, but like Snowrogue, I think I would prefer to see him as a back up possibly in a pre coaching career. I still think it would be stupid to give up on Kilgore and Fajardo. Kilgore has a great arm and I think if the Argos give up on him, they will regret it. I really hope he gets the 2nd half today.
ArgoZ
11-05-2016, 12:26 PM
I've always said that I don' t buy the injury prone label in sports. An injury can happen to any player at any time. Unfortunately, some players are more vulnerable to being in position to get hit more often. That doesn't mean they are not durable.
With one exception though. Once you suffer your first concussion, studies have shown your more prone to further injuries. Not only further concussions, but even directly linked to ligament injuries too. Each additional injury that follows further increase your chances of another and so on. Injury prone is a real thing, but usually inherited through time. Ray and particularly Collaros (almost textbook case) are perfect examples of the many articles written on the subject.
I think he does too, but like Snowrogue, I think I would prefer to see him as a back up possibly in a pre coaching career. I still think it would be stupid to give up on Kilgore and Fajardo. Kilgore has a great arm and I think if the Argos give up on him, they will regret it. I really hope he gets the 2nd half today.
Yup, I agree on all points.
Ray IMO, still has lots to give the this organization, but just not as a starter. Nothing wrong with that, because we could still use him in the back-up mentor role, and heck can anyone say Ray as a back-up is a bad thing ? In a pinch he could play, and if the team does eventually go with a young QB, who better to learn from the a future Hall of Famer ? Ray has also talked about potentially going into coaching, it could be a good way for him to get his feet wet.
As for Kilgore, I also think he's got a good arm, on top of which I beleive his throwing mechanics is one of the best I've seen in a long time. He's got pretty good footwork and his throwing motion is a thing of beauty IMO. Fajardo is solid prospect, who I think also has a solid arm, and I do enjoy Qb's that can scramble, and therefore extend plays. I wouldn't mind seeing Lefevour back either, but solely as a change of pace/short yardage QB. I still think we need another young QB, but I'm losing hope that Mayfield ends up here.
ArgoGabe22
11-05-2016, 12:44 PM
With one exception though. Once you suffer your first concussion, studies have shown your more prone to further injuries. Not only further concussions, but even directly linked to ligament injuries too. Each additional injury that follows further increase your chances of another and so on. Injury prone is a real thing, but usually inherited through time. Ray and particularly Collaros (almost textbook case) are perfect examples of the many articles written on the subject.
I've only found one study linking the two and it is a small sample size. I'm not so sure the concussion itself leads to lower body injuries but might be caused by the recovery process. Either away from the game for too long and/or then overworking yourself once cleared to participate.
http://keepingscore.blogs.time.com/2013/04/24/new-research-do-concussions-increase-the-risk-of-other-injuries/
ArgoZ
11-05-2016, 12:49 PM
I've only found one study linking the two and it is a small sample size. I'm not so sure the concussion itself leads to lower body injuries but might be caused by the recovery process. Either away from the game for too long and/or then overworking yourself once cleared to participate.
http://keepingscore.blogs.time.com/2013/04/24/new-research-do-concussions-increase-the-risk-of-other-injuries/
If you want to put in the time, here's a small sample, including your link, that took me the last five minutes while searching "concussion linked to ligament injuries"
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4469469/
http://keepingscore.blogs.time.com/2013/04/24/new-research-do-concussions-increase-the-risk-of-other-injuries/
http://www.jordanafoster.com/article.asp?a=/neuro/20090101_Concussion_ACL_roundtable
The research is relatively new and they are still learning, but the results so far are telling.
Neely2005
11-05-2016, 12:58 PM
I've always said that I don' t buy the injury prone label in sports. An injury can happen to any player at any time. Unfortunately, some players are more vulnerable to being in position to get hit more often. That doesn't mean they are not durable.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joffrey_Lupul
Neely2005
11-05-2016, 01:01 PM
This is what I think is funny............
#1. That "Mr. Glass" was the best Neely could come up with, but it would make Rod Black proud.
#2. That bitterness has taken over, because most think that Collaros is the better QB.
#3. Being offended by "Argos Suck", but taking shots at their QB with a silly nickname is A okay.
Who's offended by Argos Suck? I have no issue with fans getting on the opposing team, in fact I encourage it.
What I have an issue with is when fans start berating opposing fans, especially when the other fans are children.
If anyone is bitter it's the person who is going stop going to games because they don't like the coach and GM.
If anyone is bitter it's the person who is going stop going to games because they don't like the coach and GM.
Some may be bitter, some may not like the coach and GM, some may not like - not the coach and GM - but their actions, and some don't believe in rewarding poor behaviour (i.e., approaches, decisions, and processes that yield poor results).
Argo57
11-05-2016, 04:31 PM
Well said, AV! And btw, while the Edmonton perspective on the Ricky Ray trade may have changed five years later, I am still thrilled that Jim Barker pulled the trigger on that deal. The Argos won the 2012 Grey Cup and have been competitive every season except this one. I firmly believe that Ray still has much to offer if he continues playing.
Ricky Ray was exactly what the Argos needed when he arrived, how could anyone second guess that deal considering the 2012 Grey Cup?
Ray has played at an extremely high level during his entire tenure with the Argos and has been the epitome of class all the way.
If Ray wants to return they should bring him back, he can still play and would be a great mentor for a young QB.
I think changes are needed but I am watching today's game with a lot of sadness thinking that this could be it for Ray and also Milanovich in Toronto.
As much as I've been down on Milanovich the last year or so he has also done an admirable job through thick and thin in Toronto under less than ideal circumstances and should be applauded as well.
As much as I've been down on Milanovich the last year or so he has also done an admirable job through thick and thin in Toronto under less than ideal circumstances and should be applauded as well.
The Toronto Argonauts would like to thank Mr. Milanovich for his years of service...
PullTogether73
11-05-2016, 05:58 PM
This is what I think is funny............
#1. That "Mr. Glass" was the best Neely could come up with, but it would make Rod Black proud.
#2. That bitterness has taken over, because most think that Collaros is the better QB.
#3. Being offended by "Argos Suck", but taking shots at their QB with a silly nickname is A okay.
Speaking for myself only...
1. My amusement at the name "Mr. Glass" has nothing to do with it being used for Zach Collaros. I would find it funny for any QB in the league who was being compared, incorrectly imo, to Argos QB Ricky Ray and his injury history.
2. I was never bitter at losing Collaros. It was the correct decision at the time imo.
3. I couldn't care less about Tiger-Cats fans chanting "Argos suck" during a game. As mentioned before, I get offended when individual fans (and specifically young kids with their father's blessings) direct a random "Argos suck" directly at me as I walk by.
Based on several of your recent comments defending the Tiger-Cats and their fans, why aren't you a fan of that team instead of the Argonauts?
I have no hatred of the Tiger-Cats organization or their fans who are respectable and respectful. I admire what they have done to revive the franchise tbh.
I can not stand the infantile, obnoxious, confrontational Tiger-Cat fans. And to me, there are far too many of them to ignore. They overwhelm the fans in my statement above, and tarnish the overall image of the team.
1971GreyCup
11-05-2016, 06:03 PM
If Argos return with the same personnel and offensive and defensive schemes, it really doesn't matter who we re-sign at QB. As you can see today, Ricky Ray still has it. Nothing will change.
We've made a lot of ordinary QBs look like Hall of Famers this year. And made a Hall of Fame QB look ordinary.
doubleblue
11-05-2016, 07:04 PM
If Argos return with the same personnel and offensive and defensive schemes, it really doesn't matter who we re-sign at QB. As you can see today, Ricky Ray still has it. Nothing will change.
We've made a lot of ordinary QBs look like Hall of Famers this year. And made a Hall of Fame QB look ordinary.
That is an under statement.
Argo57
11-05-2016, 07:09 PM
The Toronto Argonauts would like to thank Mr. Milanovich for his years of service...
Yes, it is time for a change.
Neely2005
11-05-2016, 09:17 PM
If Argos return with the same personnel and offensive and defensive schemes, it really doesn't matter who we re-sign at QB. As you can see today, Ricky Ray still has it. Nothing will change.
We've made a lot of ordinary QBs look like Hall of Famers this year. And made a Hall of Fame QB look ordinary.
Sadly I can't argue with any of that.
:-(
ArgoRavi
11-05-2016, 10:56 PM
Yup, I agree on all points.
Ray IMO, still has lots to give the this organization, but just not as a starter. Nothing wrong with that, because we could still use him in the back-up mentor role, and heck can anyone say Ray as a back-up is a bad thing ? In a pinch he could play, and if the team does eventually go with a young QB, who better to learn from the a future Hall of Famer ? Ray has also talked about potentially going into coaching, it could be a good way for him to get his feet wet.
As for Kilgore, I also think he's got a good arm, on top of which I beleive his throwing mechanics is one of the best I've seen in a long time. He's got pretty good footwork and his throwing motion is a thing of beauty IMO. Fajardo is solid prospect, who I think also has a solid arm, and I do enjoy Qb's that can scramble, and therefore extend plays. I wouldn't mind seeing Lefevour back either, but solely as a change of pace/short yardage QB. I still think we need another young QB, but I'm losing hope that Mayfield ends up here.
I agree with most of what you are saying here. I would add that if they can restructure Willy's contract, give him one more shot with a full camp next year and see if he can finally get out of his funk.
ArgoRavi
11-05-2016, 11:02 PM
Ricky Ray was exactly what the Argos needed when he arrived, how could anyone second guess that deal considering the 2012 Grey Cup?
Ray has played at an extremely high level during his entire tenure with the Argos and has been the epitome of class all the way.
If Ray wants to return they should bring him back, he can still play and would be a great mentor for a young QB.
I think changes are needed but I am watching today's game with a lot of sadness thinking that this could be it for Ray and also Milanovich in Toronto.
As much as I've been down on Milanovich the last year or so he has also done an admirable job through thick and thin in Toronto under less than ideal circumstances and should be applauded as well.
I would also add that Milanovich did a very classy thing near the end of today's game by giving Brandon Whitaker every opportunity to gain 1000 yards along the ground. He even called a timeout with half of a minute left - which drew loud boos at Commonwealth - to give Whitaker the final plays that he needed to get to 1009 yards. Good on Scott Milanovich for doing that and I hope that he will always have a special place in every Argo fan's heart after coaching this team to the 2012 Grey Cup. I personally hope that he gets another chance to lead the Argos to a Grey Cup but if this was the end of the line for him today, I would like to thank him very much.
Argo57
11-06-2016, 11:14 AM
I would also add that Milanovich did a very classy thing near the end of today's game by giving Brandon Whitaker every opportunity to gain 1000 yards along the ground. He even called a timeout with half of a minute left - which drew loud boos at Commonwealth - to give Whitaker the final plays that he needed to get to 1009 yards. Good on Scott Milanovich for doing that and I hope that he will always have a special place in every Argo fan's heart after coaching this team to the 2012 Grey Cup. I personally hope that he gets another chance to lead the Argos to a Grey Cup but if this was the end of the line for him today, I would like to thank him very much.
As time passes Milanovich will be remembered fondly by the vast majority of Argonaut supporters, I just hope they make a good hire moving forward.
👍 Ravi!
paulwoods13
11-06-2016, 04:29 PM
Milanovich, if he goes, will be remembered the way O'Billovich is -- as a good coach who got us to the promised land early in his tenure, but suffered disappointing results after that. For SM's sake, I hope he is able to have as long a career in Cdn football as Obie has.
As time passes Milanovich will be remembered fondly by the vast majority of Argonaut supporters, I just hope they make a good hire moving forward.
Ravi!
I hope so too. But at this stage it's too early to see who'll be available in 2022. ;-)
I hope so too. But at this stage it's too early to see who'll be available in 2022. ;-)
Right you are, Scott. : ))
AngeloV
11-06-2016, 06:13 PM
As time passes Milanovich will be remembered fondly by the vast majority of Argonaut supporters
You may be right, but it is hard to definitively agree to that judging by the treatment he receives on here.
Argo57
11-06-2016, 06:49 PM
You may be right, but it is hard to definitively agree to that judging by the treatment he receives on here.
Fresh off a horrible season not surprised, I also like Milanovich and think he is a good coach but for both his sake and the wellbeing of the organization a new path needs to be taken.
Paul brought up a good point in regards to parallels with Bob O'Billovich , OB won the Grey Cup early in his tenure but also made some blunders along the way but 25+ years later he is remembered as the coach of the 1983 Grey Cup Champions.
OV Argo
11-07-2016, 09:00 PM
Fresh off a horrible season not surprised, I also like Milanovich and think he is a good coach but for both his sake and the wellbeing of the organization a new path needs to be taken.
Paul brought up a good point in regards to parallels with Bob O'Billovich , OB won the Grey Cup early in his tenure but also made some blunders along the way but 25+ years later he is remembered as the coach of the 1983 Grey Cup Champions.
Obie was the HC who ended a horrible, long GC-less drought for the Argos. Got close the year before too.
Millanovich won a GC too - after being gifted Ricky Ray as QB, and facing Kevin Glenn as QB for the Stumps ;o)
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