Outlook for the rest of the season

[ArgoRavi]

It is amazing how such a big win and terrific performance like yesterday's can change the outlook for the rest of the season. The Argos now have seven games left - five on the road and two at home - and likely need 9 wins to guarantee a playoff spot.

The next seven games are at Winnipeg, at Ottawa, at Montreal, home to Calgary and then Saskatchewan and then in Calgary and Edmonton to close the season. Winnipeg is on a six game winning streak and due for a loss IMO. They haven't played as well the past couple of weeks in barely getting by the Riders. I truly think that they are ripe for the picking this Saturday. The key for the Argos will be not turning over the football.

After that, the Argos go into a stadium in Ottawa where they have won their past three games and then into Montreal to face the rebuilding Als. I would be disappointed with anything less than a 2-1 record over the next three games. That would put them at 7-7 with four games left. The toughest games at that point would be the two against Calgary but they also play the struggling Riders and an Eskimos team that can't seem to get traction on defence.

The key for the Argos is for their defence to play as well as they have in two of their past three games. I do feel like they may be turning a corner there and if they play like they did on defence yesterday, they can beat anyone IMO. Offensively, the o-line played well yesterday so perhaps a healthy Van Roten at left tackle is better than an injured Bourke. The key offensively is that their receivers and running backs are healthy which gives any of the QBs - LeFevour, Willy or Ray - a lot to work with. On special teams, coverage has been excellent in recent weeks and they have blocked two punts in two weeks. The only issue there is that the return game continues to lag.

Anyway, I am feeling quite hopeful after yesterday. The reality is that the Argos still have as good of a shot as anyone to earn a home playoff game or to even finish first in the division. They play very well on the road too which bodes well with the road games ahead.

[Will]

Not much margin for error down the stretch. The game against Ottawa is absolutely crucial as the Argos have already lost the season series to the Tiger-Cats, but can still win the season series against the redblacks with a victory.

[AngeloV]

Not much margin for error down the stretch. The game against Ottawa is absolutely crucial as the Argos have already lost the season series to the Tiger-Cats, but can still win the season series against the redblacks with a victory.

With the Redblacks having a rare tie in standings, the season series will not be as important, unless of course the Argos should also play to a tie at some point down the stretch. I honestly don't think there will be a crossover this season. Edmonton has yet to prove they can beat a good team that is playing good ball. If the Argos and Cats can both go 4-3 over the final 7, they should both be in as a crossover team needs to gave a better record than the 3rd place team, meaning Edmonton would need to go 5-2.

[Argo]

It is amazing how such a big win and terrific performance like yesterday's can change the outlook for the rest of the season. The Argos now have seven games left - five on the road and two at home - and likely need 9 wins to guarantee a playoff spot.

The next seven games are at Winnipeg, at Ottawa, at Montreal, home to Calgary and then Saskatchewan and then in Calgary and Edmonton to close the season. Winnipeg is on a six game winning streak and due for a loss IMO. They haven't played as well the past couple of weeks in barely getting by the Riders. I truly think that they are ripe for the picking this Saturday. The key for the Argos will be not turning over the football.

After that, the Argos go into a stadium in Ottawa where they have won their past three games and then into Montreal to face the rebuilding Als. I would be disappointed with anything less than a 2-1 record over the next three games. That would put them at 7-7 with four games left. The toughest games at that point would be the two against Calgary but they also play the struggling Riders and an Eskimos team that can't seem to get traction on defence.

The key for the Argos is for their defence to play as well as they have in two of their past three games. I do feel like they may be turning a corner there and if they play like they did on defence yesterday, they can beat anyone IMO. Offensively, the o-line played well yesterday so perhaps a healthy Van Roten at left tackle is better than an injured Bourke. The key offensively is that their receivers and running backs are healthy which gives any of the QBs - LeFevour, Willy or Ray - a lot to work with. On special teams, coverage has been excellent in recent weeks and they have blocked two punts in two weeks. The only issue there is that the return game continues to lag.

Anyway, I am feeling quite hopeful after yesterday. The reality is that the Argos still have as good of a shot as anyone to earn a home playoff game or to even finish first in the division. They play very well on the road too which bodes well with the road games ahead.

It was a great performance in a genuine must-win game. The Argos are a delicate instrument - I hope the somehow seismic trade transaction doesn't upset the mechanism. Who knows - I certainly don't - perhaps the immediate effect may even be positive.

[Jayahre]

With the Redblacks having a rare tie in standings, the season series will not be as important, unless of course the Argos should also play to a tie at some point down the stretch. I honestly don't think there will be a crossover this season. Edmonton has yet to prove they can beat a good team that is playing good ball. If the Argos and Cats can both go 4-3 over the final 7, they should both be in as a crossover team needs to gave a better record than the 3rd place team, meaning Edmonton would need to go 5-2.

Looking at the remaining Argo games it's going to be difficult to go 4 - 3, especially since the last 3 weeks of the year are: at Calgary then a bye and at Edmonton and the Esks will be fighting for a playoff in their final game at home.
Reality is 3 wins, the Argos beating Ottawa on the road, then Montreal on the road and a home win against the Riders. Looking at the Esks schedule they likely finish 4 - 3, they are losing too many close ones and have lost two games in O/T they are better than their record shows.
Looking at the remaining schedules for Hamilton and Ottawa, I'm predicting Esks at Hamilton in the bye.

[OV Argo]

Said before here about this year's CFL - there is IMO not even close to a dominant, powerhouse team. And though the Stamps are rolling and looking very solid out West and the Bombers are on a winning streak - both of these teams are not exactly scary and easily beatable - by anybody else in the league (excluding the ego-Jones Riders maybe).

The East is ultra mediocre and up for grabs this year IMO; I thought the Ticats had the potential to come on - with Collaros back especially - and be the power in the East - I don't think that at all after the Argos dismantled them yesterday.

The Argos CAN maybe put it together to win the East this year, but so could all 3 of the other East teams.

Argos CAN win it if they play good, solid games (like they have in some wins this year), and the last game gives hope the D can help carry them; the offence has some talent; kicking game has been good too. Nothing close to a powerhouse team in the making there, but - this season is one where anybody could put it together enough to hoist the GC.

[AngeloV]

Looking at the remaining Argo games it's going to be difficult to go 4 - 3, especially since the last 3 weeks of the year are: at Calgary then a bye and at Edmonton and the Esks will be fighting for a playoff in their final game at home.
Reality is 3 wins, the Argos beating Ottawa on the road, then Montreal on the road and a home win against the Riders. Looking at the Esks schedule they likely finish 4 - 3, they are losing too many close ones and have lost two games in O/T they are better than their record shows.
Looking at the remaining schedules for Hamilton and Ottawa, I'm predicting Esks at Hamilton in the bye.

I wouldn't be so quick to pound on my RedBlacks chest if I were you. Ottawa hasn't exactly shot the lights out recently. They are 2-4 over their last 6.

[Neely2005]

Said before here about this year's CFL - there is IMO not even close to a dominant, powerhouse team. And though the Stamps are rolling and looking very solid out West and the Bombers are on a winning streak - both of these teams are not exactly scary and easily beatable - by anybody else in the league (excluding the ego-Jones Riders maybe).

The East is ultra mediocre and up for grabs this year IMO; I thought the Ticats had the potential to come on - with Collaros back especially - and be the power in the East - I don't think that at all after the Argos dismantled them yesterday.

The Argos CAN maybe put it together to win the East this year, but so could all 3 of the other East teams.

Argos CAN win it if they play good, solid games (like they have in some wins this year), and the last game gives hope the D can help carry them; the offence has some talent; kicking game has been good too. Nothing close to a powerhouse team in the making there, but - this season is one where anybody could put it together enough to hoist the GC.

I agree with most of what you said except I can't see Montreal winning the East.

[doubleblue]

I think we have a chance to go 4 and 3 starting with a win in Winnipeg this week end. Ottawa, Saskatchewan and Montreal are all winnable games, but not guaranteed for sure. That would make for a 9-9 record and Edmonton or Winnipeg would have to go 10-8 to cross over. Time to buckle up the chin straps. It will have to be the defense leading the way though IMO. Hopefully Stubler has seen the light and keeps up the pressure defense.

[argolio]

The Ticat game definitely felt different to me than our other wins, so maybe it was a turning point. Our biggest obstacle is that the West is superior right now, and we've got five of seven against the West. The East is 2-11 vs the West since the beginning of August. If we can't reverse that trend, we won't be a playoff team.

[Argo]

I agree with most of what you said except I can't see Montreal winning the East.

The Als could, if they somehow accidentally pummel opponents while beating the crap out of each other.

[Reggiemac]

I think the Als are toast this year the discord amongst players that erupted today is signs of advanced cancer. Not good forvteam building

[Neely2005]

Well add another loss. Not looking good now.

[paulwoods13]

Well add another loss. Not looking good now.

We have three ways of getting into the playoffs:

1. Beat out Hamilton -- looks very unlikely given that they are ahead of us and have already won the season series.
2. Beat out Ottawa -- highly possible, especially if Stamps beat the Redblacks today. If that happens, we can move ahead of Ott next week and we will have won the season series.
3. Beat out Edmonton -- looks moderately possible. At 5-7, three games behind B.C. and Wpg, the Esks are basically getting in by crossover or not at all. Tomorrow would be a fabulous time for Sask to come up with a win for Jones against his former team.

[Gill The Thrill]

It is amazing how such a big win and terrific performance like yesterday's can change the outlook for the rest of the season. The Argos now have seven games left - five on the road and two at home - and likely need 9 wins to guarantee a playoff spot.

The key for the Argos is for their defence to play as well as they have in two of their past three games. I do feel like they may be turning a corner there and if they play like they did on defence yesterday, they can beat anyone IMO.

Anyway, I am feeling quite hopeful after yesterday. The reality is that the Argos still have as good of a shot as anyone to earn a home playoff game or to even finish first in the division. They play very well on the road too which bodes well with the road games ahead.

Still feel as positive now, that defense was brutal in the 2nd half vs Winnipeg. They have not made any big stops against any team that employs a balanced offense. They only did well last week because Austin has Collaros stand behind the pocket like a statue the way he played, similar to what the Argos do with Ray...both the Cats and Argos have no running game, or detest using it with any consistency. Winnipeg has racked up 7 wins in a row because of a balanced attack and the Argos and Hamilton only have success when they are forced to reluctanctly use it. The Argos in their win vs Hamilton and the Cats yesterday in their win vs Montreal.

I'm convinced this team is obsessed with not giving their season ticket holders that free playoff game. I know that's not the case, but they sure play like it...it may cost them a playoff spot as now the Eskimos are in line for a possible crossover. Who would of thought the way the East was playing vs the West in head to head meetings early in the season.

[Argo57]

Still feel as positive now, that defense was brutal in the 2nd half vs Winnipeg. They have not made any big stops against any team that employs a balanced offense. They only did well last week because Austin has Collaros stand behind the pocket like a statue the way he played, similar to what the Argos do with Ray...both the Cats and Argos have no running game, or detest using it with any consistency. Winnipeg has racked up 7 wins in a row because of a balanced attack and the Argos and Hamilton only have success when they are forced to reluctanctly use it. The Argos in their win vs Hamilton and the Cats yesterday in their win vs Montreal.

I'm convinced this team is obsessed with not giving their season ticket holders that free playoff game. I know that's not the case, but they sure play like it...it may cost them a playoff spot as now the Eskimos are in line for a possible crossover. Who would of thought the way the East was playing vs the West in head to head meetings early in the season.

Oh oh, now you've done it, truthful, objective and sometimes critical observations are fighting words for some.
I can hear their Pom Poms hitting the floor as they read your post.

[doubleblue]

This was a must game IMO and for a while there I thought they were going to do it. Now the Edmonton game will be a must win providing they can keep pace with them. Don't like our chances to be honest. Reilly against Willy or Lefevour not a fair contest.

[Will]

This was a must game IMO and for a while there I thought they were going to do it. Now the Edmonton game will be a must win providing they can keep pace with them. Don't like our chances to be honest. Reilly against Willy or Lefevour not a fair contest.

For certain I'd rather have Reilly over those two.

However, Edmonton, like the Argos, have flaws in other areas of their team this year that have largely made QB play moot. Both team's records spell that out.

[ArgoRavi]

Still feel as positive now, that defense was brutal in the 2nd half vs Winnipeg. They have not made any big stops against any team that employs a balanced offense. They only did well last week because Austin has Collaros stand behind the pocket like a statue the way he played, similar to what the Argos do with Ray...both the Cats and Argos have no running game, or detest using it with any consistency. Winnipeg has racked up 7 wins in a row because of a balanced attack and the Argos and Hamilton only have success when they are forced to reluctanctly use it. The Argos in their win vs Hamilton and the Cats yesterday in their win vs Montreal.

I'm convinced this team is obsessed with not giving their season ticket holders that free playoff game. I know that's not the case, but they sure play like it...it may cost them a playoff spot as now the Eskimos are in line for a possible crossover. Who would of thought the way the East was playing vs the West in head to head meetings early in the season.

I felt that the Argos needed to win at least 2 of these 3 road games in Winnipeg, Ottawa and Montreal. If they can win in Ottawa and Montreal, they would still accomplish that feat.

I think the major reason for today's loss was special teams. Winnipeg began with great field position far too often today. I thought that the defence played well for quite a while in this game but those short fields eventually caught up with them.

[Neely2005]

Thank you Saskatchewan!

[OV Argo]

Oh oh, now you've done it, truthful, objective and sometimes critical observations are fighting words for some.
I can hear their Pom Poms hitting the floor as they read your post.


Hee, hee,hee - LOL


:ohno:

[argotom]

There is a huge gap between the top, middle and bottom.
We are somewhere in the bottom two.

[paulwoods13]

We have three ways of getting into the playoffs:

1. Beat out Hamilton -- looks very unlikely given that they are ahead of us and have already won the season series.
2. Beat out Ottawa -- highly possible, especially if Stamps beat the Redblacks today. If that happens, we can move ahead of Ott next week and we will have won the season series.
3. Beat out Edmonton -- looks moderately possible. At 5-7, three games behind B.C. and Wpg, the Esks are basically getting in by crossover or not at all. Tomorrow would be a fabulous time for Sask to come up with a win for Jones against his former team.

So we're still good for methods 2 and 3. Best to take matters into our own hands by beating both Ott and Mtl. I don't see Edmonton winning more than eight games, so if we go 3-2 down the stretch we're almost certainly in.

[AngeloV]

So we're still good for methods 2 and 3. Best to take matters into our own hands by beating both Ott and Mtl. I don't see Edmonton winning more than eight games, so if we go 3-2 down the stretch we're almost certainly in.

Edmonton would be extremely lucky to win 8. As I mentioned, their wins have all been against either poor teams, or teams that were playing very poorly at the time (Winnipeg during their woeful start, and the Argos with a rookie QB).

[argotom]

The old adage how generally you have to win two out of the three aspects of the game in order to win the game was never more true yesterday.
We have to clean that up for the big game in Ottawa.
If Dan plays well and cleans up the pics, then the Defense and or the ST has to win their share.

[ArgoRavi]

The Argos showed last week against Hamilton that they are capable of putting all three phases of the game together and playing a solid game. The key now is doing it consistently. I know that I am seen as the eternal optimist but I don't think that the Argos are that far away from being a genuine contender. Ottawa, Hamilton, the Argos and Edmonton are all in similar predicaments at the moment and the team that rises to the top will be the team that can play well defensively on a consistent basis. That is the common problem all four of these teams have had this season.

[doubleblue]

The Argos showed last week against Hamilton that they are capable of putting all three phases of the game together and playing a solid game. The key now is doing it consistently. I know that I am seen as the eternal optimist but I don't think that the Argos are that far away from being a genuine contender. Ottawa, Hamilton, the Argos and Edmonton are all in similar predicaments at the moment and the team that rises to the top will be the team that can play well defensively on a consistent basis. That is the common problem all four of these teams have had this season.

Yah, but the Argo defense against Hamilton had J. J. Heath, the difference maker. lol Barker and Milanovich fixed that in a hurry.

[AngeloV]

Yah, but the Argo defense against Hamilton had J. J. Heath, the difference maker. lol Barker and Milanovich fixed that in a hurry.

I don't think that they missed Heath at all. Secondary looked quite good on Saturday, but they couldn't stop the run. I will go on record as saying that Rankin is a better HB than Heath. Might not get as many picks, but IMO won't get beat for as many big plays either. Heath was hit and miss all season.

[Argo57]

I don't think that they missed Heath at all. Secondary looked quite good on Saturday, but they couldn't stop the run. I will go on record as saying that Rankin is a better HB than Heath. Might not get as many picks, but IMO won't get beat for as many big plays either. Heath was hit and miss all season.

As a unit the secondary did look pretty sound the other day.
No answer for the Winnipeg running game and atrocious ST play were costly.

[mint83]

Go Lions Go!

[PullTogether73]

I'm not sure the Argos will win any of their remaining games tbh.
They are capable imo of winning at least three of them (not the Calgary games), but with the crappy play-calling on offense and the TDs scored against STs, they could easily lose all 5 games.

I'm almost hoping that the Argos miss the playoffs so that management cleans house for next year.

[Neely2005]

And Edmonton wins...

[Argocister]

And Edmonton wins...
and edmonton wins again .....crap

We are 2 games behind.... we have the Als, Calgary, Sask, Calgary and edmonton . I say we need to win 4 of 5 games ..... including the edmonton game.

Esks have Als, BC,Ticats and us . The Esks have at least 2 of these.

[ArgoRavi]

I think that the team the Argos have to focus on finishing ahead of is the Ticats.

[Argocister]

I think that the team the Argos have to focus on finishing ahead of is the Ticats.

I'll go with that .... but the cats have back to back vs the RedBlacks, Als and Edmonton
We have to win 2 more than the cats (one to tie and one to go ahead) .... they have the series on us. I say the cats win 2 of the 4 .... we still need 4 wins.

[Argo]

I think that the team the Argos have to focus on finishing ahead of is the Ticats.

This is the only chance, and as bad as the Ti-cats have been, I wouldn't bet on it.

Edit 1: Although Collaros being out - for how long we don't know yet - certainly doesn't hurt the Argos.
Edit 2: Hmmm, I see Ottawa lost. Interesting.
Edit 3: I see the Argos have the worst defence in the league, and the third-worst offence.

[Argo57]

This is the only chance, and as bad as the Ti-cats have been, I wouldn't bet on it.

Edit 1: Although Collaros being out - for how long we don't know yet - certainly doesn't hurt the Argos.
Edit 2: Hmmm, I see Ottawa lost. Interesting.

Masolli proved earlier this season that he is capable of leading the Cats to victory.

[Neely2005]

To bad that both Ottawa and Hamilton have the tie break on us. At least we have the tie break on the crossover team.

[Scooter McCray]

Argos are likely done now. Begin making changes.

[gilthethrill]

Argos are likely done now. Begin making changes.

Changes must be made, but not until after the Grey Cup.

[Neely2005]

I guess Season Ticket holders will be getting refunds on the playoff tickets that were included in the Season Ticket package.

[doubleblue]

I'll go with that .... but the cats have back to back vs the RedBlacks, Als and Edmonton
We have to win 2 more than the cats (one to tie and one to go ahead) .... they have the series on us. I say the cats win 2 of the 4 .... we still need 4 wins.

Four more wins? Not with this offense. Maybe we will be looking at a 5-13 season unless Ricky can get bandaged up and back on the field.

[paulwoods13]

I believe we need to win two more games than any of Ham, Ott or Edm, or three more than Wpg. Obviously extremely unlikely but I guess we can hope one of those teams goes in the tank and we somehow win at least twice.

[AngeloV]

Even I have to admit that the season is done. Very disappointing. Good to see Milanovich show some emotion post game talking about certain players. I still hope SM is back next year, but he needs to put together a better staff around him, and stop being so loyal to certain players. I'm ready to move on from the big 3 at receiver, with the exception of Gurley. Hoping to see Jones and Noel get some time there next season.

[1971GreyCup]

I have a hard time getting over the squandered opportunity to restart the franchise in the facility, Grey Cup at home and given the weak state of affairs across the Eastern Division. If ever there was a time to shine, this was the year. Now we are looking at a good chance of finishing last in a horrible division.

[ArgoRavi]

I have a hard time getting over the squandered opportunity to restart the franchise in the facility, Grey Cup at home and given the weak state of affairs across the Eastern Division. If ever there was a time to shine, this was the year. Now we are looking at a good chance of finishing last in a horrible division.

This season has reminded me only too much of the last time the Argos entered a new stadium with the Grey Cup at home back in 1989. I believe that they were 4-3 at one point that season before collapsing and ending up 7-11. The East was so weak that season that they did finish in 2nd place but bowed out quickly in the post-season to the 7-11 Blue Bombers who entered the playoffs on a 7 game losing streak.

1989 was Bob O'Billovich's final season of his first stint with the Argos as head coach (8 seasons). Quarterbacking issues were a big part of the problem that year as well with the '89 Argos finishing the season with Rick (Hollywood) Johnson as their starting QB. Some significant changes were needed after that season as appears to be the case today.

Like AngeloV, I don't necessarily want to see Milanovich go but he will have to make some substantial changes if he sticks around.

[Ron]

On the bright side. History has shown that the Argos need to have at least one (usually a couple) horrid season between GC wins. Only exception being Flutie years.

[1971GreyCup]

This season has reminded me only too much of the last time the Argos entered a new stadium with the Grey Cup at home back in 1989. I believe that they were 4-3 at one point that season before collapsing and ending up 7-11. The East was so weak that season that they did finish in 2nd place but bowed out quickly in the post-season to the 7-11 Blue Bombers who entered the playoffs on a 7 game losing streak.

1989 was Bob O'Billovich's final season of his first stint with the Argos as head coach (8 seasons). Quarterbacking issues were a big part of the problem that year as well with the '89 Argos finishing the season with Rick (Hollywood) Johnson as their starting QB. Some significant changes were needed after that season as appears to be the case today.

Like AngeloV, I don't necessarily want to see Milanovich go but he will have to make some substantial changes if he sticks around.

ArgoRavi, I can't believe you remember 1989 to that level of detail - impressive! Those circumstances are eerily similar 2016. The last time I got so worked up over the Argos QBs was when the Argos sent Wally Gabler (Michigan) to Winnipeg and Tom Wilkinson (Wyoming). We got Wally Gabler back in 72. But Wilkinson haunted us for years.

I have been an outlier when it comes to SM for years. I always wanted to be proven wrong. What has always irked me was SM teams' performances at home. A lack of urgency from my perspective.

[OV Argo]

I have a hard time getting over the squandered opportunity to restart the franchise in the facility, Grey Cup at home and given the weak state of affairs across the Eastern Division. If ever there was a time to shine, this was the year. Now we are looking at a good chance of finishing last in a horrible division.


^^^^^^^^^^^^

This.

Nobody coulda really predicted the East would be so mediocre and wide-open for the taking this season; so that all you would need is a pretty solid team to host a play-off game and have a good shot at the GC. But, to field such an often piss-poor team this year is inexcusable - and all on Barker (couldn't retain talent or find enough quality new players + dumb, cheap$kate cuts and absolute moron trade) AND Millanovich (clueless coaching mostly - predictable, stale offence, can't make adjustments during a game; roster/personnel gaffs and sticking with mediocre players).

They BOTH need to go - IMO - and right after the season/GC. Might give a fresh outlook for a team that badly needs it.

[doubleblue]

^^^^^^^^^^^^

This.

Nobody coulda really predicted the East would be so mediocre and wide-open for the taking this season; so that all you would need is a pretty solid team to host a play-off game and have a good shot at the GC. But, to field such an often piss-poor team this year is inexcusable - and all on Barker (couldn't retain talent or find enough quality new players + dumb, cheap$kate cuts and absolute moron trade) AND Millanovich (clueless coaching mostly - predictable, stale offence, can't make adjustments during a game; roster/personnel gaffs and sticking with mediocre players).

They BOTH need to go - IMO - and right after the season/GC. Might give a fresh outlook for a team that badly needs it.

:D We can't say OV isn't passionate. But I think Milo has lost the team and this was a desperation move. Cutting the big three.

[Argo]

Here's the outlook for the rest of the season: every game will be a loss.

[argolio]

4-0 to close the season, division champs and then Grey Cup champs.

(If this miracle of miracles happens, you read it here first!)

[Al&Kat]

Here's the outlook for the rest of the season: every game will be a loss.

almost right, Argo. Just one more victory coming up, at home against the Green Riders.
Final 2016 record for Argonauts will be 6 and 12.
You heard it here first.

[PullTogether73]

4-0 to close the season, division champs and then Grey Cup champs.

(If this miracle of miracles happens, you read it here first!)

I'll guess that you put money on Leicester to win the Premier League last year as well.:D

[argolio]

I'll guess that you put money on Leicester to win the Premier League last year as well.:DI should have bet more than 15 cents.

[Neely2005]

4 games left and somehow we're only:

4 points behind Edmonton and we have the tie breaker plus we play them once more.

3 points behind Ottawa but Ottawa has the tie breaker.

2 points behind Hamilton but Hamilton has the tie breaker.

[Argo57]

4 games left and somehow we're only:

4 points behind Edmonton and we have the tie breaker plus we play them once more.

3 points behind Ottawa but Ottawa has the tie breaker.

2 points behind Hamilton but Hamilton has the tie breaker.

2 against Calgary, an improved Rider team and Edmonton, tough sledding.
I don't see Toronto even splitting the remaining 4 games, 1 win perhaps??

[1971GreyCup]

4 games left and somehow we're only:

4 points behind Edmonton and we have the tie breaker plus we play them once more.

3 points behind Ottawa but Ottawa has the tie breaker.


2 points behind Hamilton but Hamilton has the tie breaker.


How many times this season had opportunity been dangled in front of this team? It seems like every week.

I guess we'll know far more about what this team is really about after tomorrow's game.

[Neely2005]

How many times this season had opportunity been dangled in front of this team? It seems like every week.

I guess we'll know far more about what this team is really about after tomorrow's game.

I think that it just shows how bad the East is.

[DoubleBlue1873]

Can anyone explain WHY the East is so bad this year? Last year things were fairly even. No doubt BC and Wpg are greatly improved in the West, but why in particular are Ott and Ham so mediocre (we all know what's wrong with the Argos and no one expected much from the Als)? Maybe a big part part of the reason is losses to free agency, and Ott losing Maas as OC didn't help either. Injuries haven't helped either, but that's where teams like Cgy are able to overcome due to their depth.

[Neely2005]

Can anyone explain WHY the East is so bad this year? Last year things were fairly even. No doubt BC and Wpg are greatly improved in the West, but why in particular are Ott and Ham so mediocre (we all know what's wrong with the Argos and no one expected much from the Als)? Maybe a big part part of the reason is losses to free agency, and Ott losing Maas as OC didn't help either. Injuries haven't helped either, but that's where teams like Cgy are able to overcome due to their depth.

QB injuries and lack of QB depth in the East.

[1971GreyCup]

I think the number one fear going into 2016 was the risk of going with Ricky Ray without a backup. At least three sports reporters including Brian Williams were questioning the Argos strategy. I guess someone will be paying the price? Anyone think we'll start to see changes next week?

[Argo]

almost right, Argo. Just one more victory coming up, at home against the Green Riders.
Final 2016 record for Argonauts will be 6 and 12.
You heard it here first.

["Argo" on October 3] "Here's the outlook for the rest of the season: every game will be a loss."

[PullTogether73]

Anyone think we'll start to see changes next week?

No.
I have never understood the point of firing anyone with one or two games left in the season.
I believe Argonauts management will see it the same way, do their year-end review, and make changes then.

[1971GreyCup]

No.
I have never understood the point of firing anyone with one or two games left in the season.
I believe Argonauts management will see it the same way, do their year-end review, and make changes then.

If the current staff sees the end of the season then with the proviso that no more player transactions take place! I will make an exception for Willy. Go with Lefevour and Kilgore.

[R.J]

No.
I have never understood the point of firing anyone with one or two games left in the season.
I believe Argonauts management will see it the same way, do their year-end review, and make changes then.
Agreed. IMO there is no point to firing anyone now with only 2 games left.

[1971GreyCup]

Actually, if we fired SM and Barker earlier we wouldn't have Willy, have still have another starting DB, the 2017 1st overall Draft choice and 2018 Pick and quite a few receivers too. That's the logic against waiting for the end the season.

[R.J]

Actually, if we fired SM and Barker earlier we wouldn't have Willy, have still have another starting DB, the 2017 1st overall Draft choice and 2018 Pick and quite a few receivers too. That's the logic against waiting for the end the season.
That's true, but with 2 games left, what's the point now ? The damage is done.

EDIT: TBH, I would've never thought that Milanovich and Barker would have traded for Drew Willy.

[1971GreyCup]

Maybe let the players know where management believes the blame lies? It has to be gut wrenching for those guys out on the field. Draw a line in the sand.

[OV Argo]

That's true, but with 2 games left, what's the point now ? The damage is done.


An advantage might be that a new GM & HC would have a couple of games left this season to look at and evaluate players, plus see how their football philosophy works in terms of some play-book & calling ; as opposed to just having TC & exhibition games next season.

That would be if this Argo ownership had any clue about hiring astute football people and the guys they have in mind were ready and willing to start right away. Those 2 things are very doubtful IMO. They will need a lot of the off-season maybe to talk to current go, er, league coaches and management types. Hope they don't wait too long - time is of the essence IMO.


:shhhh:

[Argo57]

An advantage might be that a new GM & HC would have a couple of games left this season to look at and evaluate players, plus see how their football philosophy works in terms of some play-book & calling ; as opposed to just having TC & exhibition games next season.

That would be if this Argo ownership had any clue about hiring astute football people and the guys they have in mind were ready and willing to start right away. Those 2 things are very doubtful IMO. They will need a lot of the off-season maybe to talk to current go, er, league coaches and management types. Hope they don't wait too long - time is of the essence IMO.


:shhhh:

Although I believe it is too late to fire anyone now your point in regards to player evaluation for the balance of this season is quite valid, the opinions of the current HC and GM will be irrelevant in about 3 weeks when they are let go.

[ArgoGabe22]

An advantage might be that a new GM & HC would have a couple of games left this season to look at and evaluate players, plus see how their football philosophy works in terms of some play-book & calling ; as opposed to just having TC & exhibition games next season.

That would be if this Argo ownership had any clue about hiring astute football people and the guys they have in mind were ready and willing to start right away. Those 2 things are very doubtful IMO. They will need a lot of the off-season maybe to talk to current go, er, league coaches and management types. Hope they don't wait too long - time is of the essence IMO.


:shhhh:

Only works if the next GM and coach are either currently with the Argos or unemployed. I would think any future replacements would be plucked from other teams. That seems to be the norm these days.

[ArgoRavi]

QB injuries and lack of QB depth in the East.

Those have been factors for sure. The weird thing is that the East came on in the second half of the 2014 season and then had the better record IIRC last year. In the first month of this season, it looked like the East would be better again but then the roof caved in.

[ArgoRavi]

An advantage might be that a new GM & HC would have a couple of games left this season to look at and evaluate players, plus see how their football philosophy works in terms of some play-book & calling ; as opposed to just having TC & exhibition games next season.

And who would you hire at this date, OV? You would be severely limiting your options if you tried to install a new head coach and GM this week.

[OV Argo]

And who would you hire at this date, OV? You would be severely limiting your options if you tried to install a new head coach and GM this week.

Don't know Ravi; Trestman has been mentioned though. You're saying there are ZERO qualifed/ smart football coaches who are currently unemployed right now? - seems to me that mentality is severely limiting if all you consider is current g, er, CFL employees.

Probably going to be selections from the current group of CFL employed g, er, coaches and management though.

[Ron]

The rest of the season will consist of new players learning the system and being judged for next year. B&M are not going anywhere.

[paulwoods13]

The rest of the season will consist of new players learning the system and being judged for next year. B&M are not going anywhere.

Even I no longer believe that. SM will be gone for sure. Still think Barker might survive but I'd say it's 50/50 at best. It may come down to what he tells ownership about how he would approach bringing in a new coaching staff.

[Argo57]

Even I no longer believe that. SM will be gone for sure. Still think Barker might survive but I'd say it's 50/50 at best. It may come down to what he tells ownership about how he would approach bringing in a new coaching staff.

Correct, the team has basically quit on Milanovich.

[Scooter McCray]

I could see SM being fired today or tomorrow and JB filling in on an interim basis. Senior mgmt would then see if the players have quit on him too.

[PullTogether73]

Don't know Ravi; Trestman has been mentioned though. You're saying there are ZERO qualifed/ smart football coaches who are currently unemployed right now? - seems to me that mentality is severely limiting if all you consider is current g, er, CFL employees.

Probably going to be selections from the current group of CFL employed g, er, coaches and management though.

They could pitch for the recently fired coach from LSU as an "outside the box" hire.
I don't think they would go that far outside the box though.
I also don't think they would get him.
Finally, the recent history of former NCAA coaches in the CFL has not been impressive (see Alouettes and Lions).

[1971GreyCup]

I could see SM being fired today or tomorrow and JB filling in on an interim basis. Senior mgmt would then see if the players have quit on him too.

I like it!

[doubleblue]

I could see SM being fired today or tomorrow and JB filling in on an interim basis. Senior mgmt would then see if the players have quit on him too.

You could have something there. Although it probably wouldn't be Barker's decision.

[Argo]

You could have something there. Although it probably wouldn't be Barker's decision.

The best assistance Barker could render the Toronto Argonauts would be to fire Milanovich at season's end and then fire himself.

[Ron]

The best assistance Barker could render the Toronto Argonauts would be to fire Milanovich at season's end and then fire himself.

I am so looking forward to this off season when none of this happens. And then to watch all the apologies pile up next season when they turn the ship around. Fun fun fun. ;-)

[Argo]

I am so looking forward to this off season when none of this happens. And then to watch all the apologies pile up next season when they turn the ship around. Fun fun fun. ;-)

: ))

[ArgoRavi]

Even I no longer believe that. SM will be gone for sure. Still think Barker might survive but I'd say it's 50/50 at best. It may come down to what he tells ownership about how he would approach bringing in a new coaching staff.

I know that many fans are down on Barker too but I still think he is an excellent personnel guy. He has drafted quite well as the Argos have a fine core of young Canadian players and Barker finds are all over the league (e.g., Rogers, Whiteside, Sinkfield, Chiles, Watt, Hazelton, Gurley, Elliott, Munoz, King, etc., etc.). Of course, the complaint will be that the Argos let these players go but most of those moves were made by or at least initiated by coaches rather than by Barker.

[Argo57]

I know that many fans are down on Barker too but I still think he is an excellent personnel guy. He has drafted quite well as the Argos have a fine core of young Canadian players and Barker finds are all over the league (e.g., Rogers, Whiteside, Sinkfield, Chiles, Watt, Hazelton, Gurley, Elliott, Munoz, King, etc., etc.). Of course, the complaint will be that the Argos let these players go but most of those moves were made by or at least initiated by coaches rather than by Barker.

Yes I see where you are going with this one Ravi, sorry some of these moves may have been initiated by Milanovich but I'm also sure that lengthy conversations were had by the coach and GM to make sure they were both on the same page.
They both are equally culpable IMO.

[R.J]

I know that many fans are down on Barker too but I still think he is an excellent personnel guy. He has drafted quite well as the Argos have a fine core of young Canadian players and Barker finds are all over the league (e.g., Rogers, Whiteside, Sinkfield, Chiles, Watt, Hazelton, Gurley, Elliott, Munoz, King, etc., etc.). Of course, the complaint will be that the Argos let these players go but most of those moves were made by or at least initiated by coaches rather than by Barker.
Which Rogers ?
and Damaso Munoz was a Barker find ?


Maybe Barker's biggest problem is that he listens to his coaches too much when it comes to player personnel. The buck still stops at him though, as he's at the top of football operations, he wears the stink from all this just like (if not more so) everyone else (coaches).

[ArgoRavi]

Which Rogers ?
and Damaso Munoz was a Barker find ?


Maybe Barker's biggest problem is that he listens to his coaches too much when it comes to player personnel. The buck still stops at him though, as he's at the top of football operations, he wears the stink from all this just like (if not more so) everyone else (coaches).

Rogers, the outstanding offensive lineman for Ottawa last season. Munoz was on the Argos' neg list in 2010 when Barker traded his rights in the Noel Prefontaine trade.

Barker has some culpability with what has happened but he also has kept the team very competitive under trying circumstances from 2012 to 2015. There is little doubt in my mind that they will move on from SM but I don't think that they have to move on from Barker. If they do, so be it but I still think that he is a good option for them at GM moving forward.

[R.J]

Rogers, the outstanding offensive lineman for Ottawa last season. Munoz was on the Argos' neg list in 2010 when Barker traded his rights in the Noel Prefontaine trade.

Barker has some culpability with what has happened but he also has kept the team very competitive under trying circumstances from 2012 to 2015. There is little doubt in my mind that they will move on from SM but I don't think that they have to move on from Barker. If they do, so be it but I still think that he is a good option for them at GM moving forward.
Oh okay, SirVincent Rogers. Didn't remember about Munoz being part of that trade. You have a great memory over there Ravi.

Yes, Barker has been able to find talent, but we've had oline, dline and secondary issues for a while, and IMO this season is on Barker just as much as Milanovich. Barker also made the Drew Willy trade, but I do understand where you're coming from Ravi.

[OV Argo]

Oh okay, SirVincent Rogers. Didn't remember about Munoz being part of that trade. You have a great memory over there Ravi.

Yes, Barker has been able to find talent, but we've had oline, dline and secondary issues for a while, and IMO this season is on Barker just as much as Milanovich. Barker also made the Drew Willy trade, but I do understand where you're coming from Ravi.


EVERY team in the CFL finds some good new talent each & every season. Barker is IMO clearly not above other GMs in the league, but yes, he has recruited some good to excellent talent and drafted pretty well at times. SnowRouge lists 3 large position groups where there has been continued problems IMO - especially the D-backfield. And the trade for Willy was laughable and desperate; as was the over-the-top, knee-jerk cutting of 4 receivers at one time NOT signs of a good GM, but rather a poor one now.

[R.J]

EVERY team in the CFL finds some good new talent each & every season. Barker is IMO clearly not above other GMs in the league, but yes, he has recruited some good to excellent talent and drafted pretty well at times. SnowRouge lists 3 large position groups where there has been continued problems IMO - especially the D-backfield. And the trade for Willy was laughable and desperate; as was the over-the-top, knee-jerk cutting of 4 receivers at one time NOT signs of a good GM, but rather a poor one now.
Even Joe Mack found some talent lol - Taman as well when you think of it. Would anyone here want either of those two ?

[Ron]

And the trade for Willy was laughable and desperate; as was the over-the-top, knee-jerk cutting of 4 receivers at one time NOT signs of a good GM, but rather a poor one now.

I disagree. Those moves showed the "out of the box" thinking you always complain we never see. But then again I thought you'd be thrilled that 3 average import receivers were cut to make room for Nationals. Maybe you don't really have the faith in them you always say you do. ;-)

[OV Argo]

I disagree. Those moves showed the "out of the box" thinking you always complain we never see. But then again I thought you'd be thrilled that 3 average import receivers were cut to make room for Nationals. Maybe you don't really have the faith in them you always say you do. ;-)


Hazelton & Elliott could have been cut to give Jones & Noel a shot instead; cutting 4 receivers at one time was over the top, desperate and stupid - especially when that included Gurley who is IMO nowhere close to average - one of the top receiver talents in the league.

Go ahead and try to defend the idiot move to give up a 1st rounder and a quality DB (continues to lead the league in INTs) + a 3rd rounder, for an iffy at best QB talent like Willy - who could have probably been easily picked-up for next to free this coming off-season.

[Fan Since 70]

Hazelton & Elliott could have been cut to give Jones & Noel a shot instead; cutting 4 receivers at one time was over the top, desperate and stupid - especially when that included Gurley who is IMO nowhere close to average - one of the top receiver talents in the league.

Go ahead and try to defend the idiot move to give up a 1st rounder and a quality DB (continues to lead the league in INTs) + a 3rd rounder, for an iffy at best QB talent like Willy - who could have probably been easily picked-up for next to free this coming off-season.

I am also struggling with this trade especially the first overall pick which could easily become the number 1 or 2 selection. I know JB said he had to make the move as they were in the GC hunt but not sure if we would have been any further behind with Dan Lefevour asking the snaps. Still hurts to see Harris in a Redblacks uniform.

[Neely2005]

I am also struggling with this trade especially the first overall pick which could easily become the number 1 or 2 selection. I know JB said he had to make the move as they were in the GC hunt but not sure if we would have been any further behind with Dan Lefevour asking the snaps. Still hurts to see Harris in a Redblacks uniform.

It hurts seeing Harris on the bench?

[doubleblue]

I could see SM being fired today or tomorrow and JB filling in on an interim basis. Senior mgmt would then see if the players have quit on him too.

This has happened with other teams and other sports, where the GM knows the Coach has lost the team and takes over. But I just can't see JB canning Scott unless ordered by Copeland or the Owners. Makes me think if it doesn't happen now, it has been decided to give them another year or they are both gone at the season's end.

Somehow, I just can't see them returning. The eighteen wheeler has gone over the cliff. Who could they champion on this team to get people excited to buy season tickets for next year. I haven't heard of the team having players even appear at many events this year like they have done in the past. Not many house hold names left after this year. Ray, Durie and Foley will probably be gone. Drew Willy as the face of the team next year? meh
In the good old days the Argos would bring in some high profile imports and we would all run out and buy the ST's again believing the Grey Cup was ours again. lol
But they can't do that anymore so some continuity with some of the best players would seem to be the way to go. They tried that a bit with Chad Owens I guess. Don't know if it had that much of an effect on ST's, maybe some. But this team hasn't any personality or is it allowed to have any. So I guess Drew Willy fits right into that mold.
Sometimes I just can't believe how this season has gone after the promising start.

[mchesher03]

agree with doubleblue above, i was thinking about how optimstic i was on june 23rd, this was going to be a great year - argos are back! and how different it felt on Saturday. too bad but such is life in backing a team...

While it has been a good year with the tailgates, stadium, etc. - the on-field product needs work for next year.