Oct 2: Argonauts @ Alouettes

[PullTogether73]

I want to start this game thread early this week because this game appears to be a "must-win" for the scullers, and want to start the discussion there.

Edmonton at Winnipeg. Tough game for the Esks.
Calgary at Hamilton. Tough game for the Cats.
Ottawa at B.C. Tough game for the REDBLACKS.
Toronto at Montreal. Well, there are only two teams with worse records than the Argonauts, so I will nominally call this a "not-too-tough" game for Toronto.

Since the Argonauts are on the outside looking in for a playoff spot, I think this is a must-win game.
Thoughts?

[ArgoRavi]

I want to start this game thread early this week because this game appears to be a "must-win" for the scullers, and want to start the discussion there.

Edmonton at Winnipeg. Tough game for the Esks.
Calgary at Hamilton. Tough game for the Cats.
Ottawa at B.C. Tough game for the REDBLACKS.
Toronto at Montreal. Well, there are only two teams with worse records than the Argonauts, so I will nominally call this a "not-too-tough" game for Toronto.

Since the Argonauts are on the outside looking in for a playoff spot, I think this is a must-win game.
Thoughts?

If they don't win this game, they are probably sunk for the season so, yes, this is as close to "must win" as it gets at this point in the season. The Als usually play the Argos tough and may have more pep in their step after the recent coaching change but the Argos have to find a way to win this one.

[Wobbler]

If we can't beat the Als, it would be impolite to participate in post-season games even if the opportunity arose.

[Ron]

Have they said who's starting yet?

[Will]

If we can't beat the Als, it would be impolite to participate in post-season games even if the opportunity arose.

This.

They are all must-wins now.

[Argo]

This.

You got in your "This" post before I did : ))

[AngeloV]

If we can't beat the Als, it would be impolite to participate in post-season games even if the opportunity arose.

I would never apologize for making the playoffs under any circumstances. The (5-11) 1981 Ottawa Rough Riders sure didn't and were very close to beating the CFL dominant Eskimos in the Grey Cup.

[mchesher03]

i think this qualifies as must win. there may be a road to the playoffs without a win here but the odds get stacked up pretty high against it.

after this game having 2 games against the best team in the league so far (calgary), a late season road game in Edmonton and the home game against the riders, means potentially 2-2 over the remainder of the season, with 3-1 being a bit unlikely and 1-3 being possible.

anyhow i suspect willy starts this one and i guess we see how it goes. regardless of the matchups, injuries, etc. - argos need the W.

[Ron]

Exactly. The whole point of the regular season is to make the playoffs. If you do that (no matter how) then you've succeeded in that goal with nothing to apologize for.

[gilthethrill]

There is no way...I mean no way the Argos should lose to a team that is this much turmoil. Coaching change, Calvillo stripped of his play calling. Is this going to help Mr. Cato the QB...or does rookie Vernon (don't call me Don) Adams start? The Argos should win....the only way they lose is if they beat themselves.

I hate the crossover!

[Argo57]

I want to start this game thread early this week because this game appears to be a "must-win" for the scullers, and want to start the discussion there.

Edmonton at Winnipeg. Tough game for the Esks.
Calgary at Hamilton. Tough game for the Cats.
Ottawa at B.C. Tough game for the REDBLACKS.
Toronto at Montreal. Well, there are only two teams with worse records than the Argonauts, so I will nominally call this a "not-too-tough" game for Toronto.

Since the Argonauts are on the outside looking in for a playoff spot, I think this is a must-win game.
Thoughts?

Wouldn't call any Argonaut game "not too tough" at this point.

[Stevoman]

The Al's are coming off a bye week and with a coaching change and are due for a win and so I think the Argos are actually in for a tough game but one that I think they should ultimately win and hopefully get on a roll. Go Willy!

[Wobbler]

I expect a 2+ TD win. 31-13 Argos.

[Argo]

Since it's an away game and principally because the Argos' current DL > Als' O line, I will take the Argos by 6.

[AngeloV]

The Al's are coming off a bye week and with a coaching change and are due for a win and so I think the Argos are actually in for a tough game but one that I think they should ultimately win and hopefully get on a roll. Go Willy!

I'm with you on this. Really hoping Willy plays well and the team goes on a roll.

[doubleblue]

I expect a 2+ TD win. 31-13 Argos.

That would be nice. But, the Montreal defense still have some good tough defenders. Might be a low scoring mostly field goals kind of day.

[Antwon]

Well they announced Willy as the starter. I imagine Mtl will pin their ears back and get after him.
Hopefully we establish the run game as we have the last few games.
And Willy gets through his reads and releases the ball quickly. He definitely has more zip on the ball than Ray.

[gilthethrill]

There is a probability of rain in Montreal Sunday....wonder if LeFevour comes in with a few packages designed to help the run game? No surprise Willy was named starter.

[AngeloV]

Well they announced Willy as the starter. I imagine Mtl will pin their ears back and get after him.
Hopefully we establish the run game as we have the last few games.
And Willy gets through his reads and releases the ball quickly. He definitely has more zip on the ball than Ray.

Willy isn't a immobile as some are making him out to be. He stepped up in the pocket a couple of times against Ottawa to avoid pressure and get his pass off.

[argotom]

There is a probability of rain in Montreal Sunday....wonder if LeFevour comes in with a few packages designed to help the run game? No surprise Willy was named starter.


That would make a lot of sense and I also have called for this many times before.
What a concept keep the other team off balance instead of the usual rush the pylon in the pocket.
However I am not holding my breath as this is not Milanovich's style as frankly I can't remember the last time he did this?

[gilthethrill]

That would make a lot of sense and I also have called for this many times before.
What a concept keep the other team off balance instead of the usual rush the pylon in the pocket.
However I am not holding my breath as this is not Milanovich's style as frankly I can't remember the last time he did this?

Milanovich employed the departed Adrian McPherson in a similar fashion in last years ESF against the wind. However, watching LeFevour play the last 3 games, I have really become a fan or his and enjoy his style of play. I hope he does not all of a sudden become a forgotten man. I suppose I have become a little bias.

[Ron]

Willy isn't a immobile as some are making him out to be. He stepped up in the pocket a couple of times against Ottawa to avoid pressure and get his pass off.

His rushing stats match up pretty well to that extremely mobile gazelle in Hamilton.

[argotom]

Milanovich employed the departed Adrian McPherson in a similar fashion in last years ESF against the wind. However, watching LeFevour play the last 3 games, I have really become a fan or his and enjoy his style of play. I hope he does not all of a sudden become a forgotten man. I suppose I have become a little bias.

Thanks for reminding me as I do now recall.
Hopefully this had nothing to do with Ray still being injured?
How can we forget and most here tend to agree how Harris should have started that game.
No doubt that crucial stupid decision likely expedited his exit.
But if that decision was based on injury then we will not see a package against the Als with Willy as the starter.

[Ron]

How can we forget and most here tend to agree how Harris should have started that game.


After the fact ... yes.

Before the game most were just fine with Ray starting but to put Harris in if he couldn't get anything going.

[eiben35]

Sean McEwen has been great at centre for the Argos!

[ArgoGabe22]

Willy left practice with a minor injury. We might be going back to Dan the Man.

[Reggiemac]

When will corey Greenwood be back? We need him and McFadden to crunch tge opposition run games so we can employ all our defencive packages. And opefully we put an offencive package together tgat can move the ball often enough thatbour defence has a chance to take a breath iccasionally and the special teams need to be better, so, what I am saying is we need a team effort to win this game. Havent seen much effort by all sides of tge ball tgroughout many gamesvthis year.

[paulwoods13]

Hreenwood gopes to play on Sunday, accordinh to tge Sun.

[1971GreyCup]

Hreenwood gopes to play on Sunday, accordinh to tge Sun.

Are we now using code, Paul?

[Wobbler]

Hreenwood gopes to play on Sunday, accordinh to tge Sun.
I seriously hope you're not having a stroke, Paul...

[AngeloV]

Hreenwood gopes to play on Sunday, accordinh to tge Sun.

Makes sense. Last week was the 6th game he missed after his injury, so eligible to come off the 6 game now.

[gilthethrill]

I am having trouble getting any feeling how this game will go. However, the Argos seem to have a trend going in their favour. Each time a new qb makes a start for them this year, they get a victory (see Kilgore and LeFevour). If both McFadden and Greenwood are back, they could contain Sutton, forcing Cato into passing situations. Hopefully our secondary can hold up.

[paulwoods13]

I seriously hope you're not having a stroke, Paul...

Nope. Just a little commentary that is apparently too subtle.

[Wobbler]

"Commentary" is a generous way of describing mockery, I think.

[OV Argo]

Nope. Just a little commentary that is apparently too subtle.


OMG !!!! - somebody didn't use a spell-checker; quick - ban them !



:fart:

[AngeloV]

OMG !!!! - somebody didn't use a spell-checker; quick - ban them !



:fart:

Yeah, have to agree with you OV.

[Wobbler]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Argos?src=hash">#Argos</a> depth chart for Sunday afternoon's game in Montreal against the <a href="https://twitter.com/MTLAlouettes">@MTLAlouettes</a>. <a href="https://t.co/ofdNEU9uoI">pic.twitter.com/ofdNEU9uoI</a></p>&mdash; Toronto Argonauts PR (@Argonauts_PR) <a href="https://twitter.com/Argonauts_PR/status/782241568195485696">October 1, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Greenwood is projected to start, bumping Isaac to a backup/nickel role, and Smith gets his first start in a long time at RG. That may mean that Watman is nicked, but I'd rather believe that it means Smith is finally healthy...

[ArgoGabe22]

Foley no longer starting or inaccuarte depth chart?

[Wobbler]

Also, Robertson is off the IR and Waud isn't on the chart.

[1971GreyCup]

I am pretty sure if this punt return was in the CFL this year, the referees would have exhausted all their flags on infractions.

http://www.maxpreps.com/video/watch.aspx?videoid=5a50a3ca-1f57-4037-8585-070e235318c0

[PullTogether73]

I am pretty sure if this punt return was in the CFL this year, the referees would have exhausted all their flags on infractions.

http://www.maxpreps.com/video/watch.aspx?videoid=5a50a3ca-1f57-4037-8585-070e235318c0

I'm not understanding the connection between the video and this game thread.

[1971GreyCup]

I'm not understanding the connection between the video and this game thread.

Sorry, no connection to the thread other than a beautiful punt return left to stand on its merits. Missed by at least 15 tacklers (many two or three times). I am sure if the officials wanted, they could have found many infractions. Glad they didn't.

[Argo57]

It's up to the Argos to come up big in Montreal and pull even with Hamilton in the mediocre Eastern Conference standings.

[Wobbler]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Here’s the starting line-up for tomorrow’s match-up at McGill&#39;s stadium<br><br>📺 : TSN<br>📻 : TSN690<br><br>DEPTH CHART -&gt; <a href="https://t.co/XZCrqBUFTw">https://t.co/XZCrqBUFTw</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AlsMTL?src=hash">#AlsMTL</a> <a href="https://t.co/5DYrJlFZPS">pic.twitter.com/5DYrJlFZPS</a></p>&mdash; #AlsMTL (@MTLAlouettes) <a href="https://twitter.com/MTLAlouettes/status/782263927166078976">October 1, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Mes yeux!! Les lunettes ne font rien!

[argosrule2415]

Losing to the Als would be demoralizing obviously. They have a good defense but we should really beat them. hope the Argos come out ready to play. Also the game is on TSN2 I think...*sighs* Don't get that channel.

[ArgoRavi]

Losing to the Als would be demoralizing obviously. They have a good defense but we should really beat them. hope the Argos come out ready to play. Also the game is on TSN2 I think...*sighs* Don't get that channel.

You are correct. Only TSN2 and RDS are showing the Argos/Als game at 1 pm.

[Wobbler]

You guys think of this as an "early" game, and it is. But for me, it's a 10 AM Sunday breakfast special!

Yes, I'd like a side order of "Argos 'tied' for second place" with my Benedict, please. Coffee sounds great - hold the crossover.

[Argocister]

You guys think of this as an "early" game, and it is. But for me, it's a 10 AM Sunday breakfast special!

Yes, I'd like a side order of "Argos 'tied' for second place" with my Benedict, please. Coffee sounds great - hold the crossover.

nice ..... order that a couple times over though .... esks have won 7 now ..... we are 2 behind them now.

I really hope the Argos can come through with the win .... there are many changes for both teams . The Als probably have more film on Willy with the Milanovich/Brady offense than the Argos have on Cato with a chapdelaine offense.

[Argo57]

nice ..... order that a couple times over though .... esks have won 7 now ..... we are 2 behind them now.

I really hope the Argos can come through with the win .... there are many changes for both teams . The Als probably have more film on Willy with the Milanovich/Brady offense than the Argos have on Cato with a chapdelaine offense.

If the Argos lose today they are done, remaining schedule is pretty tough (Calgary twice, improved Riders and Edmonton).

[Argo]

If the Argos lose today they are done.

^^^ this ^^^

[Neely2005]

Just an FYI that the game is Only on TSN2 today.

[gilthethrill]

The Argos got the help that they needed yesterday from Calgary and BC. Today they must help themselves and put together a high energy effort against a team that is due to be eliminated from the post season. No excuses not to keep the season alive today.

[Gill The Thrill]

I would never apologize for making the playoffs under any circumstances. The (5-11) 1981 Ottawa Rough Riders sure didn't and were very close to beating the CFL dominant Eskimos in the Grey Cup.

1. They didn't win the game. In fact they blew a 20 pt lead at the half and lost. Warren Moon must have taken notes on how they lost this lead because he achieved even better in an NFL game when his Houston Oilers blew a 32 point lead at halftime in Buffalo...the key was keep passing, when running keeps the clock moving and both the '81 Rough Riders and '92 Oilers did that in blowing big leads.

2. Having 5 win teams in the Grey Cup does nothing for the credibility of the league...as a matter of fact, the Eastern Division has reminded me of that 1981 season. Really sad when you think that the Eastern teams were winning the head to head matchups vs the West in the first 5 weeks. Since then, it's been all west.

This league needs a 5th team in the East badly, if just to get rid of this crossover scenario which does nothing for TV ratings and selling the game in Eastern Canada. It would also provide some competitive balance to prevent every team from having a below .500 record. I think it's no coincidence that we've seen no Eastern team ever crossover to the West.

[Gill The Thrill]

You are correct. Only TSN2 and RDS are showing the Argos/Als game at 1 pm.

Anybody still thinks this exclusive TSN deal is great...this is bullshit...they might as well call the station ESPN Canada. Get rid of Orridge and let's spread the TV contract around and allowing Global, who is investing in the league through their parent company, Shaw, to broadcast games.

If this game gets over 300,000 viewers it'll be a miracle as it will be lost in the dial of the Cable TV universe.

[PullTogether73]

Just an FYI that the game is Only on TSN2 today.

Confirmed already in post #46 above.

[PullTogether73]

This league needs a 5th team in the East badly, if just to get rid of this crossover scenario which does nothing for TV ratings and selling the game in Eastern Canada. It would also provide some competitive balance to prevent every team from having a below .500 record. I think it's no coincidence that we've seen no Eastern team ever crossover to the West.

How does adding a fifth team in the east get rid of the crossover scenario?
And how does adding another team in the east make the east division more competitive compared to the west division?

[Wobbler]

Watman and Hazelton are the scratches.

Nice to see that we trust Sackey to backup the interior line.

[Skinny G]

Hey guys, for those of you wanting to watch the game:

Click on this link: http://www.argosendzone.com/watch-the-cfl-online/

I (http://www.argosendzone.com/watch-the-cfl-online/)n the third bullet, click on firstrow sports, sort by American Football, scroll for the Argos game

Click on Link 2 (espn link is working well)

You'll have to deal with a million pop ups to start... but eventually you'll be good to watch

[argosrule2415]

Uh oh. Not a good start.

[ArgoTD]

And true to form they start out in horrible fashion. No return game, can't complete passes, D gives up to long passes for a TD by the Als. Clear house right after this game - abysmal start is all on the coaching staff and they are clearly inadequate!

[ArgoTD]

Play Coombs at RB - he is not a receiver and never will be! Poor coaching when you can't recognize a player's strength and weaknesses and place them in the best position to excel.

[argoscott]

Life long Argo/CFL fan, CFL fan first, am rooting for Als over my Argos because of fairness, and because of my old friend Chap now Als HC. Fairness because of the way they brought in Willy unnecessarily while Lefavor was looking like the answer long term for Argos

So unless Lefavor goes in as the starter I am rooting for Als, a blowout would do, we also need a strong Als team for the CFL, Chaps should be the HC, will be great

Argos FG was penalty driven

[ArgoTD]

Outside that 1st TD drive, the D is now settling in and holding the Als to no gains. Problem is the STs continue to be abysmal - seems they are called for a hold or illegal block on 75% of their returns (which are short to begin with). Come on Argos and get it together!

[Wobbler]

I remain confused why we aren't using Durie more. He looks good on every touch.

[argoscott]

Get that bum Willy out o there

[Argo]

I remain confused why we aren't using Durie more. He looks good on every touch.

I can answer this and various other questions, but The Believers wouldn't appreciate the candid commentary : ))

[Wobbler]

I can answer this and various other questions, but The Believers wouldn't appreciate the candid commentary : ))
No you can't.

[argotom]

The DB's look confused in their coverages, there were the two long throws down the middle and end zone.

[Argo]

No you can't.

Thank-you, point proven.

[ArgoTD]

And it is now official - this is one of the WORST Argo teams in the past 30 years! Career .500 coach Milanovic has to go - to be this bad in a must-win game with the season on the line is humiliating both for him and the organization. Can we say fewer than 10,000 at the last 2 home games?!?!

[Will]

Not an excuse, but I was worried by two things (i) the Montreal coaching change and (ii) the fact that MTL managed to sellout this game. Everything seemed like it was set-up for a disaster.

[Will]

Thank-you, point proven.

No, I say go ahead.

[Argo]

Not an excuse, but I was worried by two things (i) the Montreal coaching change and (ii) the fact that MTL managed to sellout this game. Everything seemed like it was set-up for a disaster.

Yes, a perfect storm of adversity that would not bother a competent football organization in the least.

[Will]

Yes, a perfect storm of adversity that would not bother a competent football organization in the least.

Probably.

[ArgoGabe22]

And it is now officials - this is one of the WORST Argo teams in the past 30 years! Career .500 coach Milanovic has to go - to be this bad in a must-win game with the season on the line is humiliating both for him and the organization. Can we say fewer than 10,000 at the last 2 home games?!?!

Can we say knee-jerk reaction?

[ArgoTD]

And we are seeing exactly why the Bombers got rid of WILLY - decent stats but NO production. 6 points in n entire half is brutal!

[Argo]

No, I say go ahead.

If brevity be the soul of wit I will simply allow the result at the end of the season to fully and finally state my case.

[Will]

Can we say knee-jerk reaction?

The 1993 and 2009 teams are worse than this team. But, the frustration is understandable, this team has, for the most part, stunk since Logan Kilgore threw the INT in the 2Q against the Blue Bombers.

[ArgoTD]

Can we say knee-jerk reaction?. Any evidence to the contrary is welcome

[Argo]

Can we say knee-jerk reaction?

OTOH, the nervous system has received quite a lot of stimulus over the course of the season. This first season of the New Era.

[Will]

Shawn Lemon is playing with some pizzazz out there. 3 sacks in the half. Hopefully the rest of the team can take some inspiration.

[Argo]

So here, in all likelihood, is the season on the line. 14 - 6 is not an insurmountable lead. [Edit: 14-8]

[ArgoTD]

So here, in all likelihood, is the season on the line. 14 - 6 is not an insurmountable lead. [Edit: 14-8]. While I agree it certainly is not insurmountable but regrettably half time adjustments/improvements is not a strength of this team

[Argo]

Watch out for Logan, Argos.

[1971GreyCup]

Sorry to see another penalty cost us a key field goal. Can't keep doing that and expect to win games.

And stop extending their drives too.

[ArgoTD]

One team is playing with fire and intensity, the other looking to simply play out the string - almost as if they are playing to get their coach fired.

[argotom]

Like we said previously no packages for Dan other than 3rd and short nonsense.
Like my previous posting earlier in the year, surely Milanovich is out of his depth and has to go together with Barker.

[argosrule2415]

There's the knockout punch. Wow...

[Wobbler]

Yikes - our D did not look good on that drive. Admittedly it was hard to tell that Sutton hadn't been stopped earlier, but our tackling effort seems to be dropping. Never a good sign...

[ArgoTD]

Like we said previously no packages for Dan other than 3rd and short nonsense.
Like my previous posting earlier in the year, surely Milanovich is out of his depth and has to go together with Barker. If they don't make that change they risk losing the remaining ST fan base - to lose is one thing, to do in the most boring fashion is something else!

[Scooter McCray]

This team is terrible. Top to bottom. Begin an overhaul. Expected so much more. The defence can't stop anything. The offence cannot score TDs. The team cannot match intensity of its opposition. Too many penalties. It's too much. I am in favour of major changes at coaching and GM now.

[Will]

Yikes - our D did not look good on that drive. Admittedly it was hard to tell that Sutton hadn't been stopped earlier, but our tackling effort seems to be dropping. Never a good sign...

I'm not going to sit here and refer to the D was world beaters, but when your O is pathetic...

[Will]

If they don't make that change they risk losing the remaining ST fan base - to lose is one thing, to do in the most boring fashion is something else!

I still doubt you get any change before the end of the season.

[argotom]

If they don't make that change they risk losing the remaining ST fan base - to lose is one thing, to do in the most boring fashion is something else!


Absolutely there is nothing worse than a boring no imagination offensive team with an over the hill QB.

[ArgoTD]

WTF - late in the 3rd Q, need points desperately and he elects to have them kick a FG as opposed to going for it on 3rd and about 3 yards??!!!?? Is SM trying to get himself fired?

[Wobbler]

To bring the game within two scores? Of course you kick the FG.

[argotom]

This is horrid, Cato on two separate sneaks you would think someone should be spying on him after the first?

[ArgoTD]

To bring the game within two scores? Of course you kick the FG. In that situation you have to go for it - SM's decision there reeks of his conservatism and weakness to be aggressive which the team emulates in every facet of their game

[argotom]

To bring the game within two scores? Of course you kick the FG.

Great coaching.
Also, I recall last week after Dan was horrid in the first half he was pulled.
So Willy is now inept after 3 quarters yet he is still in?

[Wobbler]

Having said that, we do need to start taking chances on offense soon... our D can't stop anyone right now. (And yes, it's not all their fault)

[ArgoTD]

Willy has at least mastered the Milanovic check down for a 3 yard gain when you need 10 for a 1st down. Based on how the Als and Roughriders are currently playing I think the Argos now take the lead being recognized as the worst team in the league

[Wobbler]

Credit where it's due: nice job D! They figured out the Cato keeper and then sacked him. Our ball!

[Scooter McCray]

2nd and 17. Throw a 3 yd dump. Makes sense. The receivers are not getting open down field.

[Scooter McCray]

It's just as well the Toronto media did not give them the time of day this year. This team would have disappointed and alienated any new fans.

[Wobbler]

Need a TD on this drive... let's see some urgency, please.

Ugh.

[Scooter McCray]

Nice pick by Montreal.

[PullTogether73]

I have a ticket available in section 123 for the next Argonauts home game.
Half price.
Any takers?

I can't waste my time attending another exhibition of horrible football like I've seen the past few games.

[Will]

It's just as well the Toronto media did not give them the time of day this year. This team would have disappointed and alienated any new fans.

Isn't that part of the problem? There is nobody to hold team to account on field.

[argotom]

Which reminds me the game of the year last night in BC.
73 points scored between BC and RB and over 1000 yards in offense.
Harris looked awesome threw for 485 yards and 2 TD's.
How nice would he look in double blue.

[argotom]

From absolutely bad to worse with 5 minutes to go.

[Scooter McCray]

Isn't that part of the problem? There is nobody to hold team to account on field.The new ownership should be holding the team to account. If they are in for the long term they have to build a winner on and off the field. They shouldn't need the media to make them do their job. They need the media to generate interest in the team.

[Wobbler]

Let's just get out of this without any injuries.

[argoscott]

Fans at the first game LeFevour won, were really excited, crowd was saying I got the Fever, he has something special, he would have I think been the long term answer, Willy is/was a huge mistake, I bet Argos double down and release LeFevour they are so dumb, yes I wish his last name was easier to spell, but thats something we could have adjusted to

I have little respect for Barker and co, reports are that they will probably have to release 1 QB to stay under cap, they still have Kilalgore holding for field goals, so are they going to release my guy?

[Scooter McCray]

They were not just beat today. They were humiliated by a team lower in the standings in a must win game. I would relieve the coaching staff of their duties tomorrow. I have been one of SM biggest supporters but this can't continue.

[doubleblue]

I thought Barker traded the number 3 pick over all for a back up QB. Now looks like it will be the first overall pick.

[1971GreyCup]

It's a long train ride back for us. Longer for the team though!

[Scooter McCray]

Does Pinball have any interest in managing this team either as GM or coaching? His passion is desperately needed. The city would also embrace him.

[Will]

Does Pinball have any interest in managing this team either as GM or coaching?

No he doesn't.

Let's not act like Pinball was the be all and end all as the head coach of this football team.

[Scooter McCray]

No he doesn't.how do you know? This must be eating him up. He has won as a player and coach. Come back and win as GM or President.

[argotom]

Fans at the first game LeFevour won, were really excited, crowd was saying I got the Fever, he has something special, he would have I think been the long term answer, Willy is/was a huge mistake, I bet Argos double down and release LeFevour they are so dumb, yes I wish his last name was easier to spell, but thats something we could have adjusted to

I have little respect for Barker and co, reports are that they will probably have to release 1 QB to stay under cap, they still have Kilalgore holding for field goals, so are they going to release my guy?


Agree with you.
There was an aura of excitement with Dan.
Then the stupid trade and it seemed like the air went out of the tires.
I know what I would do the remainder of this done season.
Anoint Dan as the starter and let him play the rest of the way.

[Will]

how do you know?

Because he wasn't entirely comfortable in the role the first time, and he's doing just fine with his charity and corporate speaking role.

[Scooter McCray]

No he doesn't.

Let's not act like Pinball was the be all and end all as the head coach of this football team.Until they take his GC championship away from him I will actually. His pregame speech before that GC is legendary. Players would run through walls for that guy. He has done more for this team than anyone else.

[argoscott]

Agree with you.
There was an aura of excitement with Dan.
Then the stupid trade and it seemed like the air went out of the tires.
I know what I would do the remainder of this done season.
Anoint Dan as the starter and let him play the rest of the way.

I am in shock someone finally agrees with me here. That`s exactly what should be done, he won that first game in such great fashion, and before he starts the next game is already told that he wont be the guy no matter what. No doubt he called his family all excited and reminded all of them of the great Argo QB`s of the past, such as Joe Theisman and Doug Flutie etc, only to be told it does not matter what you do, we got a gut feeling about the Winnipeg reject Willy

He played very well in the 2nd game as well, but did they dash his confidence with Willy being anointed ? Reminds me of When they brought Joseph back in 2008, same mistake all over again

[PullTogether73]

I think I am dropping down to a flex pack instead of a season ticket next year.

I can't commit to paying for a full season of this crap again.

[ArgoGabe22]

I'll be there for the remaining home games and will be back next season. I enjoy Canadian football and there's nothing that will change my mind.

[Will]

I'll be there for the remaining home games and will be back next season. I enjoy Canadian football and there's nothing that will change my mind.

I'll be there too.

[argotom]

I'll be there too.

Ditto for me with my 20 plus year season tickets through the good times and bad, like the last few.

[Jon Gonzo]

I don't usually post on game day threads, too reactionary, but here goes;

That is a bloody pathetic football team. No game changers in either facet of the game.

Just our luck, we get a shot to turn this whole franchise around -- and Barker delivers a dud.

They have to be the worst, if not, the 2nd to worst team in the league.

That usually always precipitates change in a 9 team league.

At this point, the franchise would be negligent to not discuss options.

Someone will have to pay for missing this opportunity. The franchise depends on positive motion forward.

Regime change must be at least a 50/50 proposition at this point.

I believe Scott Milanovich is a good coach, but he too must be up for review.

Barker has been over-confident in his ability to replace great/good football players like Pat Watkins, Zach Collaros, Trevor Harris, Marcus Ball, Sir Vincent Rogers, Chad Owens and Euclid Cummings. The casual approach with Greg Jones, Robert McCune, Curtis Steele, Tony Washington, Aston Whitesides, and Terrell Sinkfield hasn't helped.

His draft approach could be questioned also. He made two picks this past year with Tyler Loffler was still on the board, and maybe should have seriously considered a ratio changer MLB like Alex Singleton, especially when the team was in need of one at that time.

The Argos are going in the wrong direction.

[PullTogether73]

I'll be there for the remaining home games and will be back next season. I enjoy Canadian football and there's nothing that will change my mind.


I'll be there too.

I'll watch more games from home.
Less money and time invested in crap football by the Argonauts.
They have to earn more of my money back.

[Antwon]

Which reminds me the game of the year last night in BC.
73 points scored between BC and RB and over 1000 yards in offense.
Harris looked awesome threw for 485 yards and 2 TD's.
How nice would he look in double blue.

Harris wouldn't look like that under SM's offence.

[Will]

Harris wouldn't look like that under SM's offence.

Which might be the nail on the head.

[OV Argo]

"Must win" game and they crap the bed and get thumped = pretty sad football team right now.

Willy was this great pick-up though and played as he's shown/ advertised: decent composure in the pocket and scans the field and is good to throw 6 or 7 yard check-downs or horizontal crossers; his accuracy down the field is terrible and he is iffy to be able to hit a receiver in stride anymore than 10 yards down field = a perfect fit for the pop-gun, wimpleton Millanovich/Brady offence, and I'll bet they stick with him to justify that moron trade. Cato is an example of a QB who can throw strikes well down the field and the Als with Chapdelaine in charge may take more advantage of this. Smart move too by Millanovich to leave starting tailback and key offensive player Whitaker in the game late in garbage time and feed him the ball to see if he could get injured ?

The Argo D-backfield & D in general continues to be a real weak spot - so little experience and continuity; real good thing they got rid of Raymond, Bulcke and Heath though; I guess Gabriel is now just a back-up and Waud is getting next to no playing time so Bishop can continue to do little or nothing? Greenwood & Lemon maybe are the only 2 real solid, consistent D players on this team it seems and they ain't exactly young; I hope Jefferson can return at some point cause IMO he is solid and can help; otherwise - either a huge influx of new talent, or somebody else doing the personnel ratings and deciding who plays is needed.

Real sharp coaching staff we have going here - can they get extended maybe ?

[Antwon]

Which might be the nail on the head.

Yes pathetic effort today, no sense of urgency. Not enough vertical passing plays, they seem to throw to the sidelines 90% of the time.
Actually thought Willy had decent time in the pocket today. Good run game but they could play off it for any big gains and scores.
It's one thing to lose a nail biter, but this just sucks. I'm sure SM will not be back next year. They may not win another game this year, so how do you bring the same coaches back!!

[argosrule2415]

Losing the season series against the RedBlacks and the Ti-Cats. Als own the tiebreaker over us. Playoffs are looking really bleak. I'd say Lefevour starts next game. Hoping for a miracle. Winning out perhaps? lol

[Shatto]

Well that's the season, folks. My take on the game, which reflects the way the season has gone:
Defense-- except for the first couple of minutes, the D played ok for most of the game. The biggest knock against the D is their lack of ability to make the big play when needed. They also seem to be outcoached at times. In the 3rd quarter, Stubler was slow to react to the change of strategy by Montreal. The D seems to have the horses but they just don't play with any intensity or co-ordination. Suspect coaching is the problem

Special Teams--average at best. Too often they give up a big return at crucial times. The return game is not very good. I love what Noel brings to the game but he is not the returner who will threaten to go all the way. The team needs a big returner in the worst way.

Offense--pitiful! Willy looked terrible. To think we gave up our best defensive back and a 1st round draft choice for guy! Makes one understand why Winnipeg gave up on him. He is not very mobile and appears to have a slow delivery. Unless he makes a miraculous turnaround, this looks like a very bad trade. I question the game plan the coaches have put in--blame Milo for that. With 3 minutes left there was a shot of the sideline, showing Gurley with a big smile on his face--makes one wonder if the receivers just don't want it enough. O line looked much better with LeFevour in there.

Other Comments--1)Now that the season is over, it is time to start our young receivers-Jones and Noel. They will, at least bring some intensity to the game. 2)Start playing both Willy and LeFevour depending on who is playing better. Let's see if one of them could be next year's starter. Hopefully Fajardo will be back before the end of the season, so he can also be in the mix. If Ray can regain full health he might also be in the picture but his injury history does him no favours. 3)Milo has to be on the hot seat. He insisted on getting Willy regardless of the cost. If Willy continues to be a bust, Milo should be gone after the season. 4)Unless Stubler can show time hasn't passed him by, he also should be replaced.

[ArgoFan1]

I just don't understand so called fans who say they will stop attending games. Sure the Argos play boring football, but if everyone bailed on them, we wouldn't have any team to watch. Even the pathetic Leafs get sold out games. You cannot say their home games have been very exciting the past two or three years. Go to the games, and boo if you don't like what you see. I do.

[Ron]

Until they take his GC championship away from him I will actually. His pregame speech before that GC is legendary. Players would run through walls for that guy. He has done more for this team than anyone else.

Milo had a great speech before the 2012 game for his GC championship.

[1971GreyCup]

Until they take his GC championship away from him I will actually. His pregame speech before that GC is legendary. Players would run through walls for that guy. He has done more for this team than anyone else.

I sure hope at least the question is asked and he has the chance to decline. He loves this franchise

[Argo57]

"Must win" game and they crap the bed and get thumped = pretty sad football team right now.

Willy was this great pick-up though and played as he's shown/ advertised: decent composure in the pocket and scans the field and is good to throw 6 or 7 yard check-downs or horizontal crossers; his accuracy down the field is terrible and he is iffy to be able to hit a receiver in stride anymore than 10 yards down field = a perfect fit for the pop-gun, wimpleton Millanovich/Brady offence, and I'll bet they stick with him to justify that moron trade. Cato is an example of a QB who can throw strikes well down the field and the Als with Chapdelaine in charge may take more advantage of this. Smart move too by Millanovich to leave starting tailback and key offensive player Whitaker in the game late in garbage time and feed him the ball to see if he could get injured ?

The Argo D-backfield & D in general continues to be a real weak spot - so little experience and continuity; real good thing they got rid of Raymond, Bulcke and Heath though; I guess Gabriel is now just a back-up and Waud is getting next to no playing time so Bishop can continue to do little or nothing? Greenwood & Lemon maybe are the only 2 real solid, consistent D players on this team it seems and they ain't exactly young; I hope Jefferson can return at some point cause IMO he is solid and can help; otherwise - either a huge influx of new talent, or somebody else doing the personnel ratings and deciding who plays is needed.

Real sharp coaching staff we have going here - can they get extended maybe ?

I don't understand your negativity OV, don't you know Barker and Milanovich saved their jobs for the 2017 season by making the Drew Willy trade??
Winnipeg's management team must still be pissing themselves at the thought of another team actually taking Willy off of their hands and oh yeah...also giving up a player and draft picks as well!!

[Ron]

I don't understand your negativity OV, don't you know Barker and Milanovich saved their jobs for the 2017 season by making the Drew Willy trade??


Like it or not ... this is correct.

[ArgoGabe22]

I don't understand your negativity OV, don't you know Barker and Milanovich saved their jobs for the 2017 season by making the Drew Willy trade??

Care to say it again for the 15th time? It's getting old...

And I think that specific discussion was more based around the theory of them getting the thumbs up (vote of confidence perhaps?) to make that trade rather than the trade itself will save them their jobs.

[Argo]

https://www.thestar.com/sports/argos/2016/10/02/argonauts-fumble-chance-against-alouettes.html

[Argo57]

Care to say it again for the 15th time? It's getting old...

And I think that specific discussion was more based around the theory of them getting the thumbs up (vote of confidence perhaps?) to make that trade rather than the trade itself will save them their jobs.

Thanks for the scolding there tips!!

[ArgoGabe22]

Thanks for the scolding there tips!!


You're welcome. But more of a correction rather than a scolding. If you're going to attempt to mock someone and/or their comments, you might as well get it right. :p

[Argo57]

You're welcome. But more of a correction rather than a scolding. If you're going to attempt to mock someone and/or their comments, you might as well get it right. :p

Touché my friend!!
Never let the facts get in the way of a good mocking!!

[Argo57]

https://www.thestar.com/sports/argos/2016/10/02/argonauts-fumble-chance-against-alouettes.html

Summed up perfectly.

[Wobbler]

I thought Willy was OK. He was consistently high with his passes in the first half, but that's correctable (and he seemed to adjust in the second half). He certainly wasn't spraying the ball around, which would be a real problem.

My main concern with our offense is that we don't adapt well over the course of a game. I think our overall strategy is OK, and I like the idea of using as many players as possible, but we never seem to recognize a play that's working and come back to it. That sideline pass to Gurley is exactly the sort of thing we should be throwing over and over again until they double cover him (which would open up the middle). If we're having a hard time getting guys open (and are we ever), passes that don't *require* the receiver to be open should be near the top of our list. And yeah, that's on the coach/coordinator.

[Argo57]

I'll watch more games from home.
Less money and time invested in crap football by the Argonauts.
They have to earn more of my money back.

I respect your stance, it's your money and if you feel your not getting fair entertainment value for your hard earned buck then indeed speak with your wallet.

[ArgoGabe22]

My thoughts:

Willy wasn't horrible but to use Milanovich's words, he's no gamer. Not the greatest decision to run on the last play of the half, just try to air it out. Might as well just take a knee. I think LeFevour provides more of a spark, a bit more intensity but isn't the answer full time. I think the offensive game plan should get a little creative and start getting both involved. I really hope to see Ray back soon, even if just for one last hurrah. Season looks to be practically over and I think he may leaning towards retirement.

Llevi Noel just looks awkward at KR (Sorry OV). He's doing ok but having a 6'2 receiver just won't be elusive or bounce off the tackles like an Owens, Pinball type. We really need to find a designated returner desperately.

Penalties this season have actually been pretty good for the most part except for today. Especially, the penalties early. Holmes moving took them out of FG range, a FG he made from 54 yards out.

Lemon and Greenwood are the only key players on defence. The rest have been all over the place from bad to good, never consistent. Defence just seems deflated and plays flat. Just like our offence.

4 QBs (technically 5) had playing time on offence this season and so many times they are not willing to throw the ball the deep. I can't see on the television but looks like Willy looked deep but hesitated as if there is nothing down field. I'm not sure if this on the receivers, play calling or on the play design. Just seems like it really doesn't matter who our QB is.

Covering kicks/punts continues to atrocious. I expect a new STC next season for sure.

I'm starting to wonder what affect the Raymond release and the Heath trade has had on the team. Not that they would've changed much being in the lineup, but more so of destroying team morale. This team, except Lemon, has no swagger whatsoever. I don't see many players playing with confidence. Whittaker is another exception and doesn't let the score effect his game.

Now that the season is almost lost, is it time to get other guys involved. Will we ever activate Kackert?

The Big 3 should be renamed to the 3 duds.

Argos nominations could already be made at this point. Lirim Hajarullah should be nominated for both best CDN, ST player. Heck, could even be nominated for MOP.
Whittaker most likely for MOP, Lemon for Defensive MOP.
Don't think Shaw counts as a rookie so it would have to be maybe McFadden.
Best OL would have to go to either McEwan or Holmes by default.

[Argo]

I thought Willy was OK. He was consistently high with his passes in the first half, but that's correctable (and he seemed to adjust in the second half). He certainly wasn't spraying the ball around, which would be a real problem.

My main concern with our offense is that we don't adapt well over the course of a game. I think our overall strategy is OK, and I like the idea of using as many players as possible, but we never seem to recognize a play that's working and come back to it. That sideline pass to Gurley is exactly the sort of thing we should be throwing over and over again until they double cover him (which would open up the middle). If we're having a hard time getting guys open (and are we ever), passes that don't *require* the receiver to be open should be near the top of our list. And yeah, that's on the coach/coordinator.

While my take on the big picture will be on display as my posting signature, a couple of my points in line with the particulars you mention are:
1. Hazelton should not be a healthy scratch - he has good hands, runs good routes, and has proven he is capable of solid production.
2. How to play another American? This relates to my second point: we have a dynamic Canadian running back but he's a bit player in Milano-ball, and when his number is called he's typically not lined up as a running back.

[OV Argo]

I don't understand your negativity OV, don't you know Barker and Milanovich saved their jobs for the 2017 season by making the Drew Willy trade??
Winnipeg's management team must still be pissing themselves at the thought of another team actually taking Willy off of their hands and oh yeah...also giving up a player and draft picks as well!!


Barker gave up not only a starting DB (a position group the team is weak at and continues to be) who was leading the entire league in INTs (i.e. showed he could make defensive plays) AND a FIRST round draft pick + a 3rd pick for the following year - to acquire an obvious weak passing QB with a terrible CFL career win/loss record in lots of opportunties to get better or show he really has something as a QB ??? Moron trade - one of or maybe the worst in Argo history, IMO.

Doubt they thought it was to save their jobs (and maybe ownership is so stupid & gullible(; but maybe; more like just plain dumb & clueless but also desperate.

[Argo57]

My thoughts:

Willy wasn't horrible but to use Milanovich's words, he's no gamer. Not the greatest decision to run on the last play of the half, just try to air it out. Might as well just take a knee. I think LeFevour provides more of a spark, a bit more intensity but isn't the answer full time. I think the offensive game plan should get a little creative and start getting both involved. I really hope to see Ray back soon, even if just for one last hurrah. Season looks to be practically over and I think he may leaning towards retirement.

Llevi Noel just looks awkward at KR (Sorry OV). He's doing ok but having a 6'2 receiver just won't be elusive or bounce off the tackles like an Owens, Pinball type. We really need to find a designated returner desperately.

Penalties this season have actually been pretty good for the most part except for today. Especially, the penalties early. Holmes moving took them out of FG range, a FG he made from 54 yards out.

Lemon and Greenwood are the only key players on defence. The rest have been all over the place from bad to good, never consistent. Defence just seems deflated and plays flat. Just like our offence.

4 QBs (technically 5) had playing time on offence this season and so many times they are not willing to throw the ball the deep. I can't see on the television but looks like Willy looked deep but hesitated as if there is nothing down field. I'm not sure if this on the receivers, play calling or on the play design. Just seems like it really doesn't matter who our QB is.

Covering kicks/punts continues to atrocious. I expect a new STC next season for sure.

I'm starting to wonder what affect the Raymond release and the Heath trade has had on the team. Not that they would've changed much being in the lineup, but more so of destroying team morale. This team, except Lemon, has no swagger whatsoever. I don't see many players playing with confidence. Whittaker is another exception and doesn't let the score effect his game.

Now that the season is almost lost, is it time to get other guys involved. Will we ever activate Kackert?

The Big 3 should be renamed to the 3 duds.

Argos nominations could already be made at this point. Lirim Hajarullah should be nominated for both best CDN, ST player. Heck, could even be nominated for MOP.
Whittaker most likely for MOP, Lemon for Defensive MOP.
Don't think Shaw counts as a rookie so it would have to be maybe McFadden.
Best OL would have to go to either McEwan or Holmes by default.

The Heath trade was unnecessary IMO, LeFevour is a good change of pace backup QB.
The Big 3 are vastly overrated as well, Whitaker has played his ass off this season and should be the Argo MOP.
McFadden hasn't played enough to be considered for the Rookie award.
Ownership needs to clean house at seasons end, can't shovel the same shit product to the remaining fanbase and expect to generate interest.

[Argo57]

Barker gave up not only a starting DB (a position group the team is weak at and continues to be) who was leading the entire league in INTs (i.e. showed he could make defensive plays) AND a FIRST round draft pick + a 3rd pick for the following year - to acquire an obvious weak passing QB with a terrible CFL career win/loss record in lots of opportunties to get better or show he really has something as a QB ??? Moron trade - one of or maybe the worst in Argo history, IMO.

Doubt they thought it was to save their jobs (and maybe ownership is so stupid & gullible(; but maybe; more like just plain dumb & clueless but also desperate.

It was a panic trade to try to save this season IMO and depending on Willy's performance the rest of this season may actually seal their (Barker and Milanovich's) fate, the Argonauts have struggled badly in the D backfield since 2012, Heath showed the ability to make plays then he is gone? Good for Winnipeg I guess!!
Never have been overly impressed by Willy TBH.

[Wobbler]

I'm starting to wonder what affect the Raymond release and the Heath trade has had on the team. Not that they would've changed much being in the lineup, but more so of destroying team morale. This team, except Lemon, has no swagger whatsoever. I don't see many players playing with confidence. Whittaker is another exception and doesn't let the score effect his game.
Raymond and Heath were big play guys, and yeah, we might be feeling their absence psychologically. I'm concerned about our on-field leadership in general; our defensive captain (Gabriel?) and ST captain (?) don't seem to be doing their jobs.

[Stevoman]

Milanovich is saying that some players hearts aren't in it like they should be: https://twitter.com/TorontoArgos/status/782725624846688256

[Wobbler]

Yeah, it sounds like we'll find out to whom he was referring pretty soon.

[Argo]

The Heath trade was unnecessary IMO, LeFevour is a good change of pace backup QB.
The Big 3 are vastly overrated as well, Whitaker has played his ass off this season and should be the Argo MOP.
McFadden hasn't played enough to be considered for the Rookie award.
Ownership needs to clean house at seasons end, can't shovel the same shit product to the remaining fanbase and expect to generate interest.

I'm not at any home (ouch!) games to see the whole field, but it seems to me that when called upon Gurley, Elliot, and Hazelton (now typically a healthy scratch) have done the things that you ask of receivers. No, I'd say the problem lies elsewhere.

[Wobbler]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I believe we&#39;re going to have a new number 9 team in the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFL?src=hash">#CFL</a> power rankings this week. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFLGameDay?src=hash">#CFLGameDay</a></p>&mdash; Don Landry (@CFLLandry) <a href="https://twitter.com/CFLLandry/status/782665822175133696">October 2, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Sigh... he's right.

[Wobbler]

1. Hazelton should not be a healthy scratch - he has good hands, runs good routes, and has proven he is capable of solid production.
Shaw has been better, IMO. But I suspect that we're going to release a receiver this week, opening up a spot for Hazelton.

[Gill The Thrill]

This team is terrible. Top to bottom. Begin an overhaul. Expected so much more. The defence can't stop anything. The offence cannot score TDs. The team cannot match intensity of its opposition. Too many penalties. It's too much. I am in favour of major changes at coaching and GM now.
How could this even be disputable?

The new ownership should be holding the team to account. If they are in for the long term they have to build a winner on and off the field. They shouldn't need the media to make them do their job. They need the media to generate interest in the team.
You could bet they will, just for the sake of maintaining the few season seat holders that they have. I expect the Media Conference to be on Sunday, November 6 or Monday, November 7. It may be just be to announce an active search if not new guys in charge of the football department, but it won't be to give Barker and Milanovich a vote of confidence.

I think I am dropping down to a flex pack instead of a season ticket next year.

I can't commit to paying for a full season of this crap again.
I won't even get a flex pack if Barker and Milo are back after this debacle, and I mean both of them. Milanovich can't promote the team with his demeanor during interviews, and Barker is just simply not bringing in professional calibre players, both nationals and internationals. We actually have a national player on offence who can't catch a football. That's like an NHL team sending out a player who can't skate or a MLB player sending a guy to the plate who's incapable of holding a bat properly, ridiculous.

I'll be there for the remaining home games and will be back next season. I enjoy Canadian football and there's nothing that will change my mind.I love Canadian Football too, but it can be argued that what Argo fans have been treated to this year is neither "Canadian," nor "Football" with this roster as it stands now.


Yes pathetic effort today, no sense of urgency. Not enough vertical passing plays, they seem to throw to the sidelines 90% of the time.
Actually thought Willy had decent time in the pocket today. Good run game but they could play off it for any big gains and scores.
It's one thing to lose a nail biter, but this just sucks. I'm sure SM will not be back next year. They may not win another game this year, so how do you bring the same coaches back!!You don't, and you can't if this management and coaching staff actually exercised the horrible judgement in assessing that these guys had the character and skill to make it to the big game at BMO Field in late November. Clearly they were dead wrong.

[mchesher03]

“It’s little things. It’s being late, it’s showing up not prepared, it’s screwing around. That’s where we’re at right now. It’s not going to stay that way.”

This line drives me up the wall. Clean house in the off-season for sure - how can we keep up with status quo with guys (more than one!!) not only showing up late but being un-prepared. No wonder the Argos get pummeled by one of the league's worst - so annoying.

[Scooter McCray]

“It’s little things. It’s being late, it’s showing up not prepared, it’s screwing around. That’s where we’re at right now. It’s not going to stay that way.”

This line drives me up the wall. Clean house in the off-season for sure - how can we keep up with status quo with guys (more than one!!) not only showing up late but being un-prepared. No wonder the Argos get pummeled by one of the league's worst - so annoying.I saw yesterday on 2 different occasion s receivers laughing it up about something on the sideline during the 4th quarter. One them was Elliott. The big 3 like many others have not met expectations. There should be changes at receiver IMO.

[OV Argo]

I saw yesterday on 2 different occasion s receivers laughing it up about something on the sideline during the 4th quarter. One them was Elliott. The big 3 like many others have not met expectations. There should be changes at receiver IMO.


Gurley is one of the most talented receivers in the league IMO; Elliott has some talent for sure, but his attitude and work effort maybe questionable; Hazelton is IMO a an average to mediocre receiver talent at best. I like Spencer as a dangerous YAC yards guy and deep threat; Shaw has been OK but hasn't really shown great hands or tough/circus catch ability. The Durie/Coombs spot is not used much anymore.

There could/should be changes at receiver IF better talent is found and they win jobs thru TC competition; not sure that will happen with the same coaching/evaluating staff in place - they've probably got imports only pencilled in at the 4 main receiver spots, so it's probably doubtful that young NI talent like Noel & Jones would get real shots to start - which is sad cause IMO they both maybe could - Noel already made 2 real nice catches in his limited opportunity; and Jones could do duty as both a big target slotback who also lines up at TE some (and releases downfield to catch passes sometimes).

[1971GreyCup]

I saw yesterday on 2 different occasion s receivers laughing it up about something on the sideline during the 4th quarter. One them was Elliott. The big 3 like many others have not met expectations. There should be changes at receiver IMO.

I really like what I have seen in Devon Wylie and was pretty surprised to see that he was left off the roster yesterday. Always seems to go up and get the ball. Also, seemed strong on ST which has been a sore spot on this team. O, D and ST have been disappointing this year.

[doubleblue]

I really like what I have seen in Devon Wylie and was pretty surprised to see that he was left off the roster yesterday. Always seems to go up and get the ball. Also, seemed strong on ST which has been a sore spot on this team. O, D and ST have been disappointing this year.

Wylie does have all those good points you mentioned, but they probably felt that Shaw was a better receiver over all. Wylie wasn't breaking any big returns so why not let Noel get some experience and pick up the same yardage that Wylie was getting. The blocking rules and officials over eager calling of them have taken most of the big returns out of the CFL game IMO.

[Will]

Shaw has been better, IMO. But I suspect that we're going to release a receiver this week, opening up a spot for Hazelton.

Yes, by releasing Hazelton himself.

[doubleblue]

Hazelton was kind of a problem child last year, wasn't he? Talented but kept taking quite a few penalties. But he hasn't been playing much this year lately. So who are these other players who aren't toeing the party line. A little difficult to release veteran Canadian players, so Coaches always have to pick on some Imports who easy to replace.

[Wobbler]

Yes, by releasing Hazelton himself.
Indeed. I guess I should have realized that Hazelton was on the chopping block - if we really liked him we would have found a way to play him.

[Blue90]

Darn, I thought that the announcement was the long overdue firing of Scott M.

Please someone in the Argo management wake up and send this guy packing.

[Gill The Thrill]

Darn, I thought that the announcement was the long overdue firing of Scott M.

Please someone in the Argo management wake up and send this guy packing.No doubt Barker and Milanovich are now looking at the players to save their jobs...and to cut these guys for being bad apples in week 15 and not in week 5 is indicative of their poor judgement in character. I think the door will be swinging at full speed when ownership realizes that fans have enjoyed the new ambience of watching Argo football outside at BMO, but not necessarily at watching the Argos product this year. If they're smart they're looking now already and will be enquiring to speak with a few coordinators. ex head coaches and possible GM's at seasons end.

This move reeks of desperation by Barker and Milo, but I think they must be held to account. I posted weeks ago about how the Argos did not look like a team waltzing out of the dressing room to take the field in groups of 3 and 4 and not as a team. Character issues among players are no doubt a part of that, but to wait until week 15 to do something about it is ridiculous, especially with NFL training camps having come and gone.

[Argo]

No doubt Barker and Milanovich are now looking at the players to save their jobs...and to cut these guys for being bad apples in week 15 and not in week 5 is indicative of their poor judgement in character. I think the door will be swinging at full speed when ownership realizes that fans have enjoyed the new ambience of watching Argo football outside at BMO, but not necessarily at watching the Argos product this year. If they're smart they're looking now already and will be enquiring to speak with a few coordinators. ex head coaches and possible GM's at seasons end.

This move reeks of desperation by Barker and Milo, but I think they must be held to account. I posted weeks ago about how the Argos did not look like a team waltzing out of the dressing room to take the field in groups of 3 and 4 and not as a team. Character issues among players are no doubt a part of that, but to wait until week 15 to do something about it is ridiculous, especially with NFL training camps having come and gone.

So very true.

[Argo57]

No doubt Barker and Milanovich are now looking at the players to save their jobs...and to cut these guys for being bad apples in week 15 and not in week 5 is indicative of their poor judgement in character. I think the door will be swinging at full speed when ownership realizes that fans have enjoyed the new ambience of watching Argo football outside at BMO, but not necessarily at watching the Argos product this year. If they're smart they're looking now already and will be enquiring to speak with a few coordinators. ex head coaches and possible GM's at seasons end.

This move reeks of desperation by Barker and Milo, but I think they must be held to account. I posted weeks ago about how the Argos did not look like a team waltzing out of the dressing room to take the field in groups of 3 and 4 and not as a team. Character issues among players are no doubt a part of that, but to wait until week 15 to do something about it is ridiculous, especially with NFL training camps having come and gone.

I think today's events are an indictment of these players and their professionalism (or lack thereof) but also reflects rather poorly on Milanovich and the coaching staff for letting it get to this point, this situation must have been festering for quite some time and should have been dealt with then.
Cannot imagine the likes of Wally Buono or Hufnagel putting up with this kind of crap, these clowns should have been punted out of town a long time ago, better late than never I suppose.

[OV Argo]

I think today's events are an indictment of these players and their professionalism (or lack thereof) but also refelects rather poorly on Milanovich and the coaching staff for letting it get to this point, this situation must have been festering for quite some time and should have been dealt with then.
Cannot imagine the likes of Wally Buono or Hufnagel putting up with this kind of crap, these clowns should have been punted out of town a long time ago, better late than never I suppose.


Yep; and I believe some of us noticed last year how the "big 3" kinda acted aloof or stuck to themselves yucking it up on the bench - maybe not real team players or thought they were NFL types above this league ? But why wait till now to make the move is right ? - Barker & co. just noticed something was not quite right? And why not punt a couple of them as an example but keep the most talented (Gurley IMO) and say to him - time to work harder and be a team guy ?

Smacks of desperation is right ... and the pattern has become clear; cut Raymond, cut Bulcke (after all of one game to show what he could do?); scapegoat and put Bourke on the injury list (why not much earlier if he was actually nicked or hurt?) - 3 well paid , supposed key vet off-season FA signings - all kicked off a team that is playing like $hite ??? = $$$ $MS stupidity . .. then, fleeced in a trade for an iffy QB who gets handed the starting job; and now cutting 4 roster receivers AT ONE TIME ??? Gong show /clown show. Clueless GM & HC trying to scapegoat players all of a sudden, when it's them that should have been punted out of town - way before the start of this crucial Argo season.

:sick::(:biteme:

[Argo57]

Yep; and I believe some of us noticed last year how the "big 3" kinda acted aloof or stuck to themselves yucking it up on the bench - maybe not real team players or thought they were NFL types above this league ? But why wait till now to make the move is right ? - Barker & co. just noticed something was not quite right? And why not punt a couple of them as an example but keep the most talented (Gurley IMO) and say to him - time to work harder and be a team guy ?

Smacks of desperation is right ... and the pattern has become clear; cut Raymond, cut Bulcke (after all of one game to show what he could do?); scapegoat and put Bourke on the injury list (why not much earlier if he was actually nicked or hurt?) - 3 well paid , supposed key vet off-season FA signings - all kicked off a team that is playing like $hite ??? = $$$ $MS stupidity . .. then, fleeced in a trade for an iffy QB who gets handed the starting job; and now cutting 4 roster receivers AT ONE TIME ??? Gong show /clown show. Clueless GM & HC trying to scapegoat players all of a sudden, when it's them that should have been punted out of town - way before the start of this crucial Argo season.

:sick::(:biteme:

No substitute for hard work and humility which apparently the "Big 3" seemed to lack, shame it took so long to figure out.

[ArgoRavi]

Yep; and I believe some of us noticed last year how the "big 3" kinda acted aloof or stuck to themselves yucking it up on the bench - maybe not real team players or thought they were NFL types above this league ? But why wait till now to make the move is right ? - Barker & co. just noticed something was not quite right? And why not punt a couple of them as an example but keep the most talented (Gurley IMO) and say to him - time to work harder and be a team guy ?

Smacks of desperation is right ... and the pattern has become clear; cut Raymond, cut Bulcke (after all of one game to show what he could do?); scapegoat and put Bourke on the injury list (why not much earlier if he was actually nicked or hurt?) - 3 well paid , supposed key vet off-season FA signings - all kicked off a team that is playing like $hite ??? = $$$ $MS stupidity . .. then, fleeced in a trade for an iffy QB who gets handed the starting job; and now cutting 4 roster receivers AT ONE TIME ??? Gong show /clown show. Clueless GM & HC trying to scapegoat players all of a sudden, when it's them that should have been punted out of town - way before the start of this crucial Argo season.

:sick::(:biteme:

Have you noticed that nobody else has picked up Raymond or Bulcke, OV? Bulcke has suited up for one game in three years now. He is done. Barker was never much into signing other team's free agents until this year and I think we can see why that has been the case.

Were Milanovich and Barker too loyal to The Big Three? Yes, they were but they gave them every opportunity to grow up and be leaders on this team before finally giving up on them. Anyway, Gary Lawless is reporting that both Llevi Noel and Brian Jones will start on Monday so you will have lots to look forward to, OV.

[OV Argo]

Have you noticed that nobody else has picked up Raymond or Bulcke, OV? Bulcke has suited up for one game in three years now. He is done. Barker was never much into signing other team's free agents until this year and I think we can see why that has been the case.

Were Milanovich and Barker too loyal to The Big Three? Yes, they were but they gave them every opportunity to grow up and be leaders on this team before finally giving up on them. Anyway, Gary Lawless is reporting that both Llevi Noel and Brian Jones will start on Monday so you will have lots to look forward to, OV.

Have you noticed that Barker's Argos have crapped the bed as a football team for a whole bunch of games in a row (outside of the LeFevour led win against the Ticats) now Ravi ?

I'll believe both Noel & Jones "start" and play all game with footballs targeted their way next game when i see it.

[ArgoRavi]

I'll believe both Noel & Jones "start" and play all game with footballs targeted their way next game when i see it.

Who the hell else are they going to play at this point? If they can get open, they will see the football.

[OV Argo]

Who the hell else are they going to play at this point? If they can get open, they will see the football.

I wouldn't be the slightest surprised to see Barker air-lift in an import receiver or two and hand them playing time instead - time honoured Argo tradition - we shall see; Spencer, Shaw plus Wylie are still around the roster anyways (plus that import PR guy you mentioned), plus Durie/Coombs at that hybrid slot spot. The Argos going to "start" 3 NI receivers next game? = that would be GOB mind-boggling (even though the Esks have done it most of this year as their way to go with 7 NIs only need apply in their line-up).

Love your "unstoppable Argo force" update BTW Ravi. ;o)

[Wobbler]

I'll believe both Noel & Jones "start" and play all game with footballs targeted their way next game when i see it.
So you plan to hold the team accountable for statements that you invented? Hmm...

[OV Argo]

So you plan to hold the team accountable for statements that you invented? Hmm...

So, just what would your definition of a "starting receiver" be? One who is on the field at the start of the game but then replaced a few plays or series later, (could come out of the game so Dupuis or Cross play H-back, could be replaced by an import receiver) and who had no passes thrown their way ? Jones & Noel are supposedly replacing Gurley & Elliott - who were 2 Argo receivers who played all game long in the basic 5 pack and who were targeted with lots of passes. We shall see, and I;m not saying what will happen; you believe what you want for now though/

[Wobbler]

So, just what would your definition of a "starting receiver" be? One who is on the field at the start of the game but then replaced a few plays or series later, (could come out of the game so Dupuis or Cross play H-back, could be replaced by an import receiver) and who had no passes thrown their way ? Jones & Noel are supposedly replacing Gurley & Elliott - who were 2 Argo receivers who played all game long in the basic 5 pack and who were targeted with lots of passes. We shall see, and I;m not saying what will happen; you believe what you want for now though/
I think it's reasonable to expect that they'll play most of the offensive snaps and be targeted at least once each, but no one promised that. If they're not really ready yet (which I think is a possibility, despite what Milanovich has said), Willy would be wise to stick with the vets.

Having said that, my dream is that Jones demonstrates good blocking ability and soft hands, and becomes a true receiving TE. Obviously that would require some cooperation from the offensive coordinator - so that's part of the dream too.

[ArgoRavi]

OV is no fool. He is setting it up as a "no lose" situation for Noel and Jones. If they play well, that will be great and questions will be asked as to why they weren't put in the starting lineup earlier. If they don't produce, it will be because they aren't being targeted :D.

[1971GreyCup]

SM had a couple of talking points that he took into his Mike Hogan interiew and repeated media interview:

#1. we did this in 2012 with the CFL leading rusher Cory Boyd. (Implying that we then went on to win the Grey Cup)

#2. We're a better team today as a result.

I doubt number #2. In the case of Cory Boyd the change was made much earlier in the season - Week#6 I believe. Also, that season Chad Owen was dominating kick returns and receiving. And we had Zach Collaras at QB.

What wasn't mentioned was this was the second move in desperation in a couple of weeks. Questionable moves and just too late.

[OV Argo]

OV is no fool. He is setting it up as a "no lose" situation for Noel and Jones. If they play well, that will be great and questions will be asked as to why they weren't put in the starting lineup earlier. If they don't produce, it will be because they aren't being targeted :D.


Fairly simple Ravi: if Noel & Jones really are replacing Elliott & Gurley in the offence, they will be on the field for pretty well all offensive reps (like Elliott & Gurley were when they played); AND, you'd have to think they would get some or lots of passes thrown their way (and if they don't get targeted, well could just be that they can't run decent routes I guess). Again - we shall see.

[AngeloV]

SM had a couple of talking points that he took into his Mike Hogan interiew and repeated media interview:

#1. we did this in 2012 with the CFL leading rusher Cory Boyd. (Implying that we then went on to win the Grey Cup)

#2. We're a better team today as a result.

I doubt number #2. In the case of Cory Boyd the change was made much earlier in the season - Week#6 I believe. Also, that season Chad Owen was dominating kick returns and receiving. And we had Zach Collaras at QB.

What wasn't mentioned was this was the second move in desperation in a couple of weeks. Questionable moves and just too late.

I don't get what Zack Collaros had to do with the 2012 season. Jarius Jackson was the back up to Ray, and nobody knew what type of future Collaros would have at that point in time.

[1971GreyCup]

I don't get what Zack Collaros had to do with the 2012 season. Jarius Jackson was the back up to Ray, and nobody knew what type of future Collaros would have at that point in time.

AngeloV I stand corrected. I was a year off for Zach - 2013. My point was that Cory Boyd was radical, but also a single tweak of a strong team. Brought in veterans like Belli to strengthen the team. We've gutted a bad team. Not seriously takin a run for the GC this year. Their using the last four games to figure out what talent they have for 2017 and whether to sign Ricky Ray again.

[argotom]

The team has been in a panic mode this years and the poor trade for Willy speaks to the desperation mode.
Likewise the release of the 4 receivers not to mention the lineman.
These accumulative moves not only this year but especially over the past 2-3 is again a testament to lack of direction and poor evaluation of talent.
Hence the need to clean house most definitely at year end.

[OV Argo]

The team has been in a panic mode this years and the poor trade for Willy speaks to the desperation mode.
Likewise the release of the 4 receivers not to mention the lineman.
These accumulative moves not only this year but especially over the past 2-3 is again a testament to lack of direction and poor evaluation of talent.
Hence the need to clean house most definitely at year end.

Agreed.