Argos release Hazelton, Gurley, Elliott, and Bates

[Kenners]

http://www.cfl.ca/2016/10/03/report-argonauts-release-receiver-hazelton/

[AngeloV]

Not surprising to me at all. I predicted it would happen earlier. Wouldn't surprise me to see Elliott next.

[argotom]

On the other hand injuries aside, this is a bit of a surprise.
He has upside.

[Will]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFL?src=hash">#CFL</a> sources say the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Argos?src=hash">#Argos</a> have released Vidal Hazelton, Kevin Elliott, Tori Gurley, and Phil Bates</p>&mdash; Matthew Scianitti (@TSNScianitti) <a href="https://twitter.com/TSNScianitti/status/783066778813423616">October 3, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[ArgoGabe22]

Was the team's problem really a 3 headed monster?

[1971GreyCup]

On Twitter: #CFL sources say the #Argos have released Vidal Hazelton, Kevin Elliott, Tori Gurley, and Phil Bates

[Will]

Was the team's problem really a 3 headed monster?

4-headed apparently

[OV Argo]

WTF ???


The 4 headed scapegoat? I could see 2 of these guys getting cut maybe, but all 4 including a talent like Gurley who produces big plays / makes tough catches / scores TDs ?

Desperation / season over mode for Barker now? Who will get to play receiver? - gasp, not those NI types Jones & Noel maybe ?

[ArgoZ]

On Twitter: #CFL sources say the #Argos have released Vidal Hazelton, Kevin Elliott, Tori Gurley, and Phil Bates

Wow, Gurley is a surprise. He has been our clutch, big play reciever. He won't have trouble finding elsewhere to play. Ti-Cats will scoop up one if these guys of course.

[Ron]

Rewatched the game last night and saw at least one route where Gurley quit on it letting the ball drop.

Anyways ... this should be great for you OV. You're always complaining that the Argos don't do anything outside the box. Now they have cut 3 internationals that have been underproductive.

[ArgoRavi]

Rewatched the game last night and saw at least one route where Gurley quit on it letting the ball drop.

Anyways ... this should be great for you OV. You're always complaining that the Argos don't do anything outside the box. Now they have cut 3 internationals that have been underproductive.

I was thinking the same thing, Ron. I imagine that Jones and Noel will both get more snaps on offence now.

As far as receivers go, Shaw and Spencer are the big two now but the likes of Jones, Noel, Wylie, Durie and Coombs will round out the receiving corps. Am I missing anyone?

[doubleblue]

Wow! Things are really going off the rails here. Jim Barker always likes to sign "character" guys, so are these guys losing their character. The Argo Airlift will be back in business. Just like the good old days.

It will be interesting to see who picks up Gurley though. He could be a difference maker for a team going for the GC.

[ArgoRavi]

Wow! Things are really going off the rails here. Jim Barker always likes to sign "character" guys, so are these guys losing their character. The Argo Airlift will be back in business. Just like the good old days.

It will be interesting to see who picks up Gurley though. He could be a difference maker for a team going for the GC.

The Argos have been more than patient with The Big 3. They have given them opportunity after opportunity to mature and become leaders and it sounds like they have squandered the last of those opportunities. There is no doubt that those 4 receivers have talent but it certainly hasn't been showing up on the scoreboard over the past two months. Bad work habits can be an infection that spreads throughout the locker room and that, I suspect, is the reason for their release.

[OV Argo]

Rewatched the game last night and saw at least one route where Gurley quit on it letting the ball drop.

Anyways ... this should be great for you OV. You're always complaining that the Argos don't do anything outside the box. Now they have cut 3 internationals that have been underproductive.

Didn't they cut 4 receivers though if you include Bates - and 3 of them have been starters a lot of the past 2 seasons? That's not "outside the box", it's an atom bomb drop of unprecedented proportion in CFL history maybe (name me another team that cut 3 starting receivers at one time late in the season, and when they still had a play-off shot?) ??? And BTW - is this move (cutting all 4 of those receivers ) confirmed anywhere? So what, Barker & Millanovich just all of a sudden came to the conclusion that all 4 of these guys shouldn't be on the roster ??? This Argo team is looking like a gong show to rival Poop and the Als at their worst the past couple of years.

We shall see who gets to play receiver now - Wylie could draw in to go with Shaw and Spencer; and Barker types always have some new American players either on the PR or on speed-dial. Jones & Noel both getting to start along with the Durie/Coombs spot still in place? - could be, maybe pigs will fly too.

[argoscott]

speechless

[Gill The Thrill]

I'm really going to miss the Kevin Elliot topspin on the football for every 1st down he caught....not!

[ArgoRavi]

Didn't they cut 4 receivers though if you include Bates - and 3 of them have been starters a lot of the past 2 seasons? That's not "outside the box", it's an atom bomb drop of unprecedented proportion in CFL history maybe (name me another team that cut 3 starting receivers at one time late in the season, and when they still had a play-off shot?) ??? And BTW - is this move (cutting all 4 of those receivers ) confirmed anywhere? So what, Barker & Millanovich just all of a sudden came to the conclusion that all 4 of these guys shouldn't be on the roster ??? This Argo team is looking like a gong show to rival Poop and the Als at their worst the past couple of years.

We shall see who gets to play receiver now - Wylie could draw in to go with Shaw and Spencer; and Barker types always have some new American players either on the PR or on speed-dial. Jones & Noel both getting to start along with the Durie/Coombs spot still in place? - could be, maybe pigs will fly too.

They only have one international receiver (Devier Posey) on the practice squad, so like it or not, OV, your national receivers will get more of a chance to play. Two that I forgot to mention in my previous post are Malcolm Williams and Kevin Bradfield who are both on the PR.

[doubleblue]

The Argos have been more than patient with The Big 3. They have given them opportunity after opportunity to mature and become leaders and it sounds like they have squandered the last of those opportunities. There is no doubt that those 4 receivers have talent but it certainly hasn't been showing up on the scoreboard over the past two months. Bad work habits can be an infection that spreads throughout the locker room and that, I suspect, is the reason for their release.

I thought they looked pretty good when Ricky Ray was throwing the ball to them. Also with Trevor Harris last year. Gurley has caught quite a few badly thrown balls this year especially since Ricky was injured. But we know he wasn't cut because of lack of talent and production. It was probably what's called insubordination.

[ArgoGabe22]

^ time to update your profile signature, Ravi ;)

[Fumblitis]

This is gonna be an interesting Thanksgiving football day. Who's Drew gonna one hop it into the dirt to?

[Wobbler]

Holy cow. So...

Shaw - Spencer - Jones/Noel - Wylie + Durie/Coombs?

That's actually a pretty good looking group. Our depth is almost gone, but that isn't really a problem.

[timlb01]

I'm really going to miss the Kevin Elliot topspin on the football for every 1st down he caught....not!

I was going to write that exactly. Good riddens and that stupid spinning ball. It was brutal when it was a blow out and we got 3 yards and he spun the ball.

[Fumblitis]

Holy cow. So...

Shaw - Spencer - Jones/Noel - Wylie + Durie/Coombs?Yeah but Wylie and Kenny Shaw have proven to be studs and I expect them to step up even more.

[AngeloV]

WTF ???


The 4 headed scapegoat? I could see 2 of these guys getting cut maybe, but all 4 including a talent like Gurley who produces big plays / makes tough catches / scores TDs ?

Desperation / season over mode for Barker now? Who will get to play receiver? - gasp, not those NI types Jones & Noel maybe ?

Gurley does produce big plays, and I am a bit surprised he was released. Having said that, he runs some sloppy routes. I mentioned this in the Winnipeg game day thread, that the first pick Lefevour threw which started the Bombers comeback was not on Lefevour, but that Gurley ran a really bad route.

[Wobbler]

Yeah but Wylie and Kenny Shaw have proven to be studs and I expect them to step up even more.
Indeed. I actually think we'll win some games with these guys. And it will be great to get a look at Jones and/or Noel.

[AngeloV]

I have no issue with the releases, I just wish they were done earlier in the season. One thing that can't be overlooked here, is that despite the size of these receivers, the Argos seem to be the only team in the league that hasn't had success with their bubble screens. Blocking is a huge part of buying in to a team philosophy. The fact that these guys didn't do it should have been warning signs.

[Argo57]

These issues must have been festering for quite some time which in itself is disappointing on many levels, shows lack of character in the players Toronto brought in and leaves you wondering how much the players respect and believe in the coaching staff??

[Neely2005]

Didn't they cut 4 receivers though if you include Bates - and 3 of them have been starters a lot of the past 2 seasons? That's not "outside the box", it's an atom bomb drop of unprecedented proportion in CFL history maybe (name me another team that cut 3 starting receivers at one time late in the season, and when they still had a play-off shot?) ??? And BTW - is this move (cutting all 4 of those receivers ) confirmed anywhere? So what, Barker & Millanovich just all of a sudden came to the conclusion that all 4 of these guys shouldn't be on the roster ??? This Argo team is looking like a gong show to rival Poop and the Als at their worst the past couple of years.

We shall see who gets to play receiver now - Wylie could draw in to go with Shaw and Spencer; and Barker types always have some new American players either on the PR or on speed-dial. Jones & Noel both getting to start along with the Durie/Coombs spot still in place? - could be, maybe pigs will fly too.

It's confirmed:

http://www.argonauts.ca/2016/10/03/argonauts-transactions-october-3/

[Neely2005]

I have no issue with the releases, I just wish they were done earlier in the season. One thing that can't be overlooked here, is that despite the size of these receivers, the Argos seem to be the only team in the league that hasn't had success with their bubble screens. Blocking is a huge part of buying in to a team philosophy. The fact that these guys didn't do it should have been warning signs.

Well Kackert is a good blocker...

[Stevoman]

You don't cut 4 guys to make a statement if you are serious about the playoff push. You cut 1 or 2 to be used as motivation for the other ones. You cut this many guys to make room for salary cap space to pay for your overpaid starter (Willy) and back up (Ray). Man, in the course of 3 weeks, the Argos have turned into a gong show just like the Al's were.

[Argo]

You don't cut 4 guys to make a statement if you are serious about the playoff push. You cut 1 or 2 to be used as motivation for the other ones. You cut this many guys to make room for salary cap space to pay for your overpaid starter (Willy) and back up (Ray). Man, in the course of 3 weeks, the Argos have turned into a gong show just like the Al's were.

So very true.

And now, moving over to the "Outlook" thread...

[AngeloV]

You don't cut 4 guys to make a statement if you are serious about the playoff push. You cut 1 or 2 to be used as motivation for the other ones. You cut this many guys to make room for salary cap space to pay for your overpaid starter (Willy) and back up (Ray). Man, in the course of 3 weeks, the Argos have turned into a gong show just like the Al's were.

I don't know about that. Honestly, these guys were supposed to be the best receivers on the team, yet both Spencer and Shaw produce higher than they do. Salary cap space isn't an issue at this point in the season. Willy's big contract doesn't kick in until next season. Pretty obvious that unless the ball is going to them, they don't seem to care that much. Shaw may have got a penalty for a low block on Sunday, but at least he was hustling down field to attempt to spring Spencer. I don't think I've seen any of those guys attempt to block for their teammates.

[PullTogether73]

After these moves, I have a renewed interest in attending Monday's game against the Stampeders.
The comedy factor should provide for an entertaining, rather than frustrating, beat-down by Calgary.

Ignore my post in the Als game thread offering my season seat for sale.
I have to see this!

[Ron]

After these moves, I have a renewed interest in attending Monday's game against the Stampeders.
The comedy factor should provide for an entertaining beat-down they give to Calgary.



Fixed. ;-)

[ArgoGabe22]

After these moves, I have a renewed interest in attending Monday's game against the Stampeders.
The comedy factor should provide for an entertaining, rather than frustrating, beat-down by Calgary.

Ignore my post in the Als game thread offering my season seat for sale.
I have to see this!

I predict the Argos will win at least 1 of the 2 games vs the Stamps. We will see a proud performance from guys looking for an upset.

[OV Argo]

I predict the Argos will win at least 1 of the 2 games vs the Stamps. We will see a proud performance from guys looking for an upset.

Argos vs. Stamps 2nd and 3rd stringers in a meaningless (for the Stamps) late game of the year should be real interesting. Unless the Stumps are gunning for the CFL best season record still?

I'd put the point spread at the Stumps favored by 20 or so. ;o)

[PullTogether73]

Fixed. ;-)


I predict the Argos will win at least 1 of the 2 games vs the Stamps. We will see a proud performance from guys looking for an upset.


Argos vs. Stamps 2nd and 3rd stringers in a meaningless (for the Stamps) late game of the year should be real interesting. Unless the Stumps are gunning for the CFL best season record still?

I'd put the point spread at the Stumps favored by 20 or so. ;o)

To Ron and Gabe, I like your optimism!
Completely unwarranted, but impressive nonetheless!

I'm obviously more with OV.
For example, if I had to bet on whether the Argos win on Monday, or at least BLM and Jerome Messam don't play the fourth quarter of this game because the Stampeders are winning by a lot, well...:shhhh:

[matchuk]

I have no issue with the releases, I just wish they were done earlier in the season. One thing that can't be overlooked here, is that despite the size of these receivers, the Argos seem to be the only team in the league that hasn't had success with their bubble screens. Blocking is a huge part of buying in to a team philosophy. The fact that these guys didn't do it should have been warning signs.

+1

[1971GreyCup]

Argos release Hazelton, Gurley and Elliott, their top three receivers last year
Andrew Bucholtz By Andrew Bucholtz
11 hours ago
55 Yard Line

Kevin Elliott (L), Vidal Hazelton (C) and Tori Gurley (R) were all released by the Toronto Argonauts Monday. (CFL.ca.)

"In 2015, the Toronto Argonauts' top three receivers were a trio of talented rookies, Vidal Hazelton, Tori Gurley and Kevin Elliott. Those three receivers, dubbed "The Three Towers" by CFL.ca's Don Landry, looked likely to have the Argos set at the position for years to come, and that was part of why they let the Ticats outbid them for veteran receiver/returner Chad Owens in free agency. It didn't work out that way at all, though; in a relatively shocking move Monday evening, the Argos announced (a couple of hours after TSN's Matthew Scianitti first reported it) that they've released all three of Hazelton, Gurley and Elliott, plus fellow receiver Phil Bates. This release comes only a day after Toronto head coach Scott Milanovich went on a rant about a few unnamed players on his team:

"There are a couple of guys that maybe aren’t on board as much as they need to be,” Milanovich told reporters following Sunday’s game in Montreal. “It starts with the preparation, it starts with the attitude in the locker-room. Coaches, players, staff — everybody. We need to make sure it’s the right one. We’ve got to get the right people on the bus. That’s where we’re at at this point.”
Milanovich's comments in the release also make it seem like attitude may have been a factor:

“Obviously these decisions are very difficult to make, but I believe they are in the best interest of this football team,” said Head Coach Scott Milanovich. “We remain committed to winning this year and making a final push for the playoffs.”
The production these three guys put up last year was remarkable. Hazelton led the team with 803 receiving yards on 70 catches and had 10 touchdowns, earning both a selection as the Argos' rookie of the year and the divisional nomination for the league-wide award, while Gurley posted 791 yards and 10 touchdowns (tied for the CFL lead) on 58 catches and Elliott added 642 yards and eight touchdowns on 50 catches. However, things weren't going as well for them this year. Gurley and Elliott both missed time with injuries, and Hazelton was frequently a healthy scratch. Still, based on on-field production alone, this would be surprising; Gurley was the third-leading receiver on the team with 509 yards and led the Argos with five touchdowns despite playing in just nine games, while Hazelton and Elliott were fifth and sixth in yardage with 361 and 294 yards (and three and two touchdowns) respectively in eight games each. (Bates, by contrast, only played in two games and recorded three catches for 20 yards.)

This housecleaning gets more remarkable still when you consider these players' ages. They weren't the youngest rookies out there, as they all have some NFL experience, but Elliott is just 27 and Hazelton and Gurley are both 28. They should have plenty of good CFL seasons left from an age perspective, and they all showed they can post some significant production when called upon this year. That makes it very clear that this wasn't about their talent or their ability, and that will make it interesting to see if any other CFL team takes a look at them.

Lots of teams are out there looking for a playoff push, and a glut of proven CFL receivers just became available. Maybe in the right situation, one or more of these guys might find a perfect fit and resume their rise to CFL stardom. Other teams may be skeptical of adding them given Toronto's drastic action here, though. It's exceptionally rare to see teams cut young, talented and proven guys like this, and that rarity means there will be a lot of doubts hanging over these three guys going forward.

However, this also raises big questions about the Argonauts and their management. Is cutting three young, talented players like this really what's best for the club? A lot of that depends on what exactly these guys did, which we don't really know from outside, but it's worth pointing out that Montreal receivers Kenny Stafford and Duron Carter got in a much more public confrontation with quarterback Rakeem Cato a few weeks back, and all sides involved managed to get over it and come together to put up a spectacular performance against these Argos Sunday. Was releasing these three top players, who looked to be key components of the team's future so recently, really the best option? We'll find out, but it seems likely that Toronto's push towards the playoffs will get much more difficult without them."

I think the last paragraph speaks volume. Too bad the issues for the 3 came to this and the time and investment in three are lost. Chad Owens cut loose to fund these receivers comes back to haunt us too.

[argoscott]

Gurley was a out of this world Receiver, I predict he will be picked up by another team before the weekend if not today. I just heard that Scott M just named his boy starting QB for the rest of the season.Ray to be back up when he returns



Scott Milanovich will be out of coaching hopefully before 2017, assuming that the Argo Owners give a hoot one way or the other, certainly he wont be a HC again in the CFL once his stint here is done



Barker was a mistake from day 1, if we had Coach /GM along the lines of a Wally,Huff etc I am pretty sure under same situation they would have gone with Dan LEF and been very successful, not to mention they might have hung on to Harris or even Colaris

I suspect they will release Dan L shortly because they are so dumb

[doubleblue]

I would be very nervous if I was an Argonaut and asked to be in a photo shoot to promote the team in the off season. At three of those guys in photo shoots last spring are toast now. Bulcke, Hazelton and Gurley. Who else was in it? Durie and Foley I believe. They might be gone this off season as well.

[Antwon]

I'm not sure how to take all this.
Elliot gone...glad to see it. Tired of the ball spin after a catch. Continues to lack maturity.
Gurley I thought was a go to guy. But I don't see what he does when he doesn't have the ball.
So the 4 of them were a problem in the locker room, on the practice field, and maybe off the field.
Already one anonymous source said "Long time coming. Talented but difficult guys in the locker room". So my question is why was it left to fester so long!!!
The Willy trade, now this....complete desperation.
JB & SM had a lot of respect from around the league. But Ray over Harris, free agent signings that get cut, Willy trade, and now this! Credibility is dropping fast.
If there's a lack of leadership on the team, then that's on JB for recruiting players with poor character, and on SM for not dealing with it in August.

[argoscott]

I think the poor character may be on SM and JB..... cant we bring back Bart Andrus/s

[Wobbler]

When you have productive, talented, physically gifted players of course you don't want to get rid of them. This is our first real losing streak with current personnel, and of course that magnifies problems. I suspect the decision would have been made a bit sooner if we had had stable QBing this year - a new QB needs some stability in his receivers.

[Bleeds Double Blue]

I think the poor character may be on SM and JB..... cant we bring back Bart Andrus/s

No.

[Neely2005]

The most interesting thing this week may be the depth chart. Anyone want to make a guess on it?

[doubleblue]

There's one new Import WR on the practice roster with NFL experience, Posey 6'2 210. He will probably come on to go with the pony receivers Spencer, Wiley and Shaw. Then there are the two big Canadians Jones and Noel plus a big kid Williams 6'3 220 out of Junior Ball who has been on the PR. And they still have Durie and Coombs to alternate. Quantity is there don't know yet about quality.

[OV Argo]

There's one new Import WR on the practice roster with NFL experience, Posey 6'2 210. He will probably come on to go with the pony receivers Spencer, Wiley and Shaw. Then there are the two big Canadians Jones and Noel plus a big kid Williams 6'3 220 out of Junior Ball who has been on the PR. And they still have Durie and Coombs to alternate. Quantity is there don't know yet about quality.


Posey seems like a pretty interesting new receiver prospect - good size and nice NFL resume (3rd round draft pick of the Texans and actually played for them over 3 seasons and had some receptions) - Barker loves finding those ex-NFLers - wouldn't be surprised to see Posey get handed starting playing time next game, even though he is new to Canadian ball and the Argos play-book (just signed Sept. 20), over Canadian rookies like Noel & Jones (who may be struggling with the complex Millanovich play-book and getting proper depth on their routes) ;o)

[1971GreyCup]

SM explains all: http://www.cfl.ca/2016/10/04/milanovich-were-a-better-team-today/

[argoscott]

No.

No to what? I had Sarcasm after the Bart Andrus comment.... OR were you saying no to the charge that I said the poor character is from SM and JB?

[argoscott]

Coach Scott suggests there is something terrible about the group of 4, but he is withholding because they have futures and families... They probably simply questioned his competence I wager

[Argoknot]

Coach Scott suggests there is something terrible about the group of 4, but he is withholding because they have futures and families... They probably simply questioned his competence I wagerOr more likely they were arrogant, entitled jerks who came late to practice and didn't want to buy into the team concept. SM could have buried them but chose to be professional about it and let them see if they could "grow up" with a second chance elsewhere.

SM also said two of them were beat out by the Canadians Noel and Jones, which reminds me, i haven't been paying total attention to the Argos this year but I haven't seen much of any of the Canadians. I thought Jones would be a star in the league ( a Jason Clermont clone) now I guess we get to find out.

[Bleeds Double Blue]

No to what? I had Sarcasm after the Bart Andrus comment.... OR were you saying no to the charge that I said the poor character is from SM and JB?

No to any reference to bringing back Bart Andrus. Personally I've seen enough of that guy for a long long time.

[ArgoGabe22]

SM also said two of them were beat out by the Canadians Noel and Jones, which reminds me, i haven't been paying total attention to the Argos this year but I haven't seen much of any of the Canadians. I thought Jones would be a star in the league ( a Jason Clermont clone) now I guess we get to find out.

I never expected Jones to get any meaningful action this season. Starting the season injured and being a rookie, I just assumed this would be a year of learning for him. Noel is a bit of a bonus because it's not common to have a 4th rounder contribute. Milanovich just called Noel the one of the best special teams players in the league.

[ArgoRavi]

Coach Scott suggests there is something terrible about the group of 4, but he is withholding because they have futures and families... They probably simply questioned his competence I wager

Barker and Milanovich will never trash a player publicly. The Argos had a promising young DB back in 2013 - Janzen Jackson - who had some "issues". He was released a few hours before a game he was scheduled to start but the Argos never said anything negative about him. A couple of months later, he was charged with murder.

I have said that it has likely been determined that Brian Bulcke - who has suited up for one game in three years - is finished as a pro football player. However, Barker and Milanovich will not say that publicly in case Bulcke is still seeking football employment.

[ArgoRavi]

Posey seems like a pretty interesting new receiver prospect - good size and nice NFL resume (3rd round draft pick of the Texans and actually played for them over 3 seasons and had some receptions) - Barker loves finding those ex-NFLers - wouldn't be surprised to see Posey get handed starting playing time next game, even though he is new to Canadian ball and the Argos play-book (just signed Sept. 20), over Canadian rookies like Noel & Jones (who may be struggling with the complex Millanovich play-book and getting proper depth on their routes) ;o)

As subsequent posts indicate, both Jones and Noel will be starting on Monday. I don't understand why you refuse to believe this, OV.

[Argo57]

Barker and Milanovich will never trash a player publicly. The Argos had a promising young DB back in 2013 - Janzen Jackson - who had some "issues". He was released a few hours before a game he was scheduled to start but the Argos never said anything negative about him. A couple of months later, he was charged with murder.

I have said that it has likely been determined that Brian Bulcke - who has suited up for one game in three years - is finished as a pro football player. However, Barker and Milanovich will not say that publicly in case Bulcke is still seeking football employment.

You are correct Ravi, the team must take the high road.
Would be suicide to publicly slag any players you cut, football is a pretty small community and no free agents or players coming out of college would want to go to an organization who conducted business in that fashion.

[OV Argo]

As subsequent posts indicate, both Jones and Noel will be starting on Monday. I don't understand why you refuse to believe this, OV.


Like I said Ravi - I'll believe it when i see it. Do you believe the Argos will go with 3 starting NI receivers next game - Noel, Jones and Durie/Coombs at they hybrid slot spot?

SO, the big 3 are all of a sudden "beat out" by Noel & Jones for playing time? Yet Jones has been on the roster for quite some time now and rated basically zero playing time at receiver? And a number of games back, Noel goes in at receiver and makes 2 very nice grabs, including a tough catch TD, and subsequently gets rewarded with basically zero playing time at receiver? But now - they're the starters? - why were they not given some quality reps/playing time before this ? - so the big 3 could continue to get all the receiver reps when they've been some sort of problem all along? - sorry, seems kinda fishy to me.

I get that the big 3 may have been not the best team guys, or didn't work hard enough including being will to block tough - reason to release one or two of them maybe, and coulda/shoulda happened sooner? - but all 3 (+ Bates) at once??? I suspect there were some other issues - like maybe insubordination / lipping back at the coaches, not buying their roles; and maybe they didn't come thru well for Scotty's new pet QB project Willy in his first start - made him look bad, so they got scapegoated ?

[ArgoGabe22]

I can't comment on the incident since I wasn't there but Gurley was upset at something on the sidelines, had to be calmed down by teammates and eventually had a word with Milanovich. Not the first time he came off the field and voiced his frustrations.

[Shatto]

As OV Argo stated, DeVier Posey is an intriguing prospect. Good size (6 2 212), fast (4-39/4.47 depending upon source), reasonably young (26). Drafted in the 3rd round NFL, despite only playing 5 games as a senior. Missed10 games for impermissible benefits under NCAA rules and being overpaid for summer job. Neither, actual immoral or illegal activities. Some scout felt he was a 1st or 2nd round draft choice if he had played all games in his senior year. Who knows how he will pan out but the potential is there.
Jones and Noel are young inexperienced Canadian receivers but they have both shown on special teams, the type of dedication, intensity and character, that could assist them eventually becoming Sinopoli type players. Here's hoping, anyway.

[Argoknot]

I can't comment on the incident since I wasn't there but Gurley was upset at something on the sidelines, had to be calmed down by teammates and eventually had a word with Milanovich. Not the first time he came off the field and voiced his frustrations.Later to him. Don't let the door hit you on the way out if you want to be selfish like that

"This isn't a democracy, it's a dictatorship and I'm the big dick"

"The" Don Matthews

[KCargosfan]

Will be interested to see who picks up Gurley. I would imagine Winnipeg or Calgary will take a look.

[argoscott]

Will be interested to see who picks up Gurley. I would imagine Winnipeg or Calgary will take a look.

Agreed I was just looking around wondering why we have not heard that he has already been picked up? I figured before the weekend at the latest he would be with another team

Toronto Argonauts could certainly use him

[1971GreyCup]

Very quiet on news for these four. Which one signs first and with whom? I say Gurley with Ticats. Second choice Elliott with same team.

[argoscott]

Or more likely they gave their honest opinion about bringing in a backup QB Winnipeg reject instead of going with Dan Lef...

[argoscott]

Barker and Milanovich will never trash a player publicly. The Argos had a promising young DB back in 2013 - Janzen Jackson - who had some "issues". He was released a few hours before a game he was scheduled to start but the Argos never said anything negative about him. A couple of months later, he was charged with murder.

I have said that it has likely been determined that Brian Bulcke - who has suited up for one game in three years - is finished as a pro football player. However, Barker and Milanovich will not say that publicly in case Bulcke is still seeking football employment.

I hope you are not suggesting there may be murder charges coming soon against 1 of the 4 and/or serious criminal charges on them?

BTW you have way to much respect for JB and SM me thinks

[paulwoods13]

Yeah, because respecting people too much is always a bad thing.

[Neely2005]

Vidal Hazelton thanks and says goodbye to Argos fans:

http://www.thesnap.ca/7064-2/

[ArgoGabe22]

Hazelton expected to sign with the Eskimos.

[KCargosfan]

Vidal Hazelton thanks and says goodbye to Argos fans:

http://www.thesnap.ca/7064-2/

Classy by him... and always entertaining to read when someone references themselves in the third person.

[gilthethrill]

Classy by him... and always entertaining to read when someone references themselves in the third person.

gil agrees with you.

[KCargosfan]

gil agrees with you.

haha. Thumbs up to you, sir.

[doubleblue]

IMO if Winnipeg wants to compete with the big boys out West they need to sign Gurley.

[1971GreyCup]

Justin Dunk Tweeted:

The Edmonton Eskimos have agreed to terms with REC Vidal Hazelton, per CFL sources.

Hazelton was one of four receivers released by the Toronto Argonauts on Monday. He had 23 catches for 361 yards and three touchdowns this season after registering 70 catches for over 800 yards while earning the nod as East Division’s Most Outstanding Rookie last season.

About Latest Posts

[1971GreyCup]

Maybe, like Brandon Isaac (who also was bad in the locker room), we'll get him back after several years?

[Mightygoose]

IMO if Winnipeg wants to compete with the big boys out West they need to sign Gurley.

Done!


CFL News ‏<s>@</s>CFL_News <small class="time"> 9m9 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/CFL_News/status/784037286820319232) </small> <s>#</s>Bombers (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Bombers?src=hash) add receiver Tori Gurley http://ow.ly/K3ao304V2D1 (https://t.co/taKp4qPKT7) <s>#</s>CFL (https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFL?src=hash) via <s>@</s>Wpg_BlueBombers (https://twitter.com/Wpg_BlueBombers)

[Argo]

Two signed, one to go (neglecting Bates as is reasonable). Elliot has talent, he'll certainly be signed after a precondition "straighten up and fly right" dialogue.

[Will]

I wonder if breaking up the "Big 3" will help clean up their attitude.

[Scooter McCray]

I think most players for the Argos don't have attitude issues. It's hard to get an inflated ego when 1 reporter covers your team, 10000 fans come to watch you play in a city of 3 million. If anything it gives most a chip on their shoulder to play well.

[Reggiemac]

Hmmm,probably a good move as these guys had problems getting open and the two Canadian rookies deserve a chance. I think it had a lot to do with attitude cant let a cancerous attitude continue. Now if they could only find a running back whose a threat to go the distance on every play. Then our offence Will work.

[AngeloV]

I think the attitudes started when Hazelton started being a healthy scratch. Sounds to me like he didn't accept the demotion to well, and with the added losing, the others probably jumped on that bandwagon too.

[Argo]

Two signed, one to go (neglecting Bates as is reasonable). Elliot has talent, he'll certainly be signed after a precondition "straighten up and fly right" dialogue.

All Big Three signed any moment now: http://www.tsn.ca/report-elliott-finalizing-deal-with-ticats-1.580770

[Argo]

I wonder if breaking up the "Big 3" will help clean up their attitude.

"Hazelton was my favourite Argo. Ran great routes but rarely saw the ball. He treated my kids with class after the games ! Always a big smile, great attitude. Good luck Vidal. Hope to see you back here in the Grey Cup."

--post on 3downnation.com

[1971GreyCup]

Drew Edwards on Twitter: #Ticats finalizing an agreement with Kevin Elliott, per #CFL sources. #Argos
wp.me/p65Ld4-4PF

Blue Bombers must be over the moon with Barker/SM for the last two weeks transactions. Dropped huge payroll on discarded QB. Picked up future draft picks and now land Gurley too.

I'll be looking closely at these supposedly 'bad' apples and see if any of their attitude and/or poor performances continue.

Nothing Hamilton loves more than getting great talent from the Argos for nothing!

[ArgoGabe22]

http://www.cfl.ca/2016/10/06/ferguson-the-big-3-just-werent-a-fit-in-toronto/


Gurley has 36 catches so far this season and that is great, until you factor in that he has been targeted 61 times in 2016, resulting in a less than stellar catch percentage of 59 per cent.

Vidal Hazleton and Kevin Elliot had been healthy scratches sporadically through the last two years; sometimes to meet ratio standards, other times because Milanovich decided to go another direction on game day. They both possessed a statistic which tied them to Gurley, a 59 per cent catch rate. While one stat does not an entire story tell, the fact that these receivers were cut after creating similar mediocre results in an offence accustomed to high-flying completion percentages sends a strong message to all within the organization.

[argoscott]

http://www.cfl.ca/2016/10/06/ferguson-the-big-3-just-werent-a-fit-in-toronto/

statistics are for losers Bob Obilovich, sure others have said it also. Gurley was a out of this world receiver

[ArgoRavi]

statistics are for losers Bob Obilovich, sure others have said it also. Gurley was a out of this world receiver

Terry Greer was an "out of this world" receiver. Gurley showed flashes at times but those stats do tell a story IMO.

[argoscott]

Well said...I dont buy this 4 problem guys released crap , perhaps he heard them say why did they make such a bonehead trade for a QB we did not need, I would have said it also

[AngeloV]

Well said...I dont buy this 4 problem guys released crap , perhaps he heard them say why did they make such a bonehead trade for a QB we did not need, I would have said it also

I'm sure it's a bit of everything. Gurley constantly losing in on the sidelines. Elliott taking major foul penalties at key times like they were going out of style. Hazelton just losing his job to a guy that is considerably more productive. You can't deny that bigger things were expected from all 3 guys. Personally, I think the biggest problem is that they weren't exactly guys that hustled when the ball wasn't coming to them.

[PullTogether73]

statistics are for losers Bob Obilovich, sure others have said it also. Gurley was a out of this world receiver

Yup.
A win/loss record of 5-9 is definitely for losers.
And ultimately, the only statistic that matters.

[OV Argo]

Drew Edwards on Twitter: #Ticats finalizing an agreement with Kevin Elliott, per #CFL sources. #Argos
wp.me/p65Ld4-4PF

Blue Bombers must be over the moon with Barker/SM for the last two weeks transactions. Dropped huge payroll on discarded QB. Picked up future draft picks and now land Gurley too.

I'll be looking closely at these supposedly 'bad' apples and see if any of their attitude and/or poor performances continue.

Nothing Hamilton loves more than getting great talent from the Argos for nothing!


Another indication of this being a panic/knee-jerk move by Barker & Millanovich.

All of the so-called big 3 might have had some sort of trade value; sure, drop them from the game roster, but take the time to shop them around; might have got a mid round draft pick or better, or even a late round pick or a neg list guy or at least something in a trade.

Gurley is a top notch receiver talent IMO (and no Ravi, he ain't exactly Terry Greer level) - Bombers scooping him for free = they have to be happy/laughing at that; he might be a big play receiver for them into the play-offs.


And the new "targeted" receiver CFL stats now are junk, IMO; takes no or little account into how good the throw was, what the coverage was like, how deep was the throw, etc. A much more telling receiver stat is "drops" - how many passes did a receiver drop when he got his hands on the ball and/or it was catchable - but even that can be subjective some. And sure receivers can run some poor routes, or make mistakes; but QBs often miss wide-open receivers or make bad reads as well.

[KCargosfan]

I wonder if breaking up the "Big 3" will help clean up their attitude.

It would have to you would think?

There are very few 3rd chances given in football, and the $$ dropoff from the CFL to Arena League is mammoth (for Americans, a worst-case scenario if you play the whole CFL season is $41K US including training camp pay). You can support a family/not have to work the other 6 months of the year/not worry about health insurance/live a reasonable (and sometimes very comfortable) life on CFL contracts.

You can't do that on any AFL contract.

[Ron]

Another indication of this being a panic/knee-jerk move by Barker & Millanovich.



They make the team stronger by ridding themselves of cancers ... and in turn harm 3 teams by spreading those cancers. win win.

[Wobbler]

LOL. Ah, the lighter side of metastasis.

[Scooter McCray]

Why didn't we shop any of the big 3 to Winnipeg instead of Heath and draft picks for Willy? Bombers were in need of receivers not DBS.

[doubleblue]

Another indication of this being a panic/knee-jerk move by Barker & Millanovich.

All of the so-called big 3 might have had some sort of trade value; sure, drop them from the game roster, but take the time to shop them around; might have got a mid round draft pick or better, or even a late round pick or a neg list guy or at least something in a trade.

Gurley is a top notch receiver talent IMO (and no Ravi, he ain't exactly Terry Greer level) - Bombers scooping him for free = they have to be happy/laughing at that; he might be a big play receiver for them into the play-offs.


And the new "targeted" receiver CFL stats now are junk, IMO; takes no or little account into how good the throw was, what the coverage was like, how deep was the throw, etc. A much more telling receiver stat is "drops" - how many passes did a receiver drop when he got his hands on the ball and/or it was catchable - but even that can be subjective some. And sure receivers can run some poor routes, or make mistakes; but QBs often miss wide-open receivers or make bad reads as well.

Maybe Jim felt bad he didn't give Winnipeg enough for Willy. Hopefully Gurley has finally evened up that trade. http://www.argofans.com/images/icons/icon7.png

[1971GreyCup]

Why didn't we shop any of the big 3 to Winnipeg instead of Heath and draft picks for Willy? Bombers were in need of receivers not DBS.

Very good point. Maybe their attitude change over the last couple of weeks! I have a hunch their attitudes will be much better going forward.

[gilthethrill]

Maybe Jim felt bad he didn't give Winnipeg enough for Willy. Hopefully Gurley has finally evened up that trade. http://www.argofans.com/images/icons/icon7.png

LMAO! That may well be post of the year!

[KCargosfan]

Why didn't we shop any of the big 3 to Winnipeg instead of Heath and draft picks for Willy? Bombers were in need of receivers not DBS.

Some article I read said we tried to shop them, but there was no interest. And why would there be if teams are about 90 percent sure the players are going to be released anyway?

[1971GreyCup]

Some article I read said we tried to shop them, but there was no interest. And why would there be if teams are about 90 percent sure the players are going to be released anyway?

Why on earth would you trade for an unwanted player when he'll be released anyway? Oh sorry, we just traded a starting DB, 1st round and 3rd round draft pick for an unwanted player soon to be released. Winnipeg sure capitalized on the Argos desperation.

I guess that ok, because he'll be our QB for years to come. Seems to me we're down seven players (five starters and two potential starters) in just a couple weeks. Pretty impressive management of the talent!

Gurley will dress today for the Blue Bombers today.

[KCargosfan]

Why on earth would you trade for an unwanted player when he'll be released anyway? Oh sorry, we just traded a starting DB, 1st round and 3rd round draft pick for an unwanted player soon to be released. Winnipeg sure capitalized on the Argos desperation.

I guess that ok, because he'll be our QB for years to come. Seems to me we're down seven players (five starters and two potential starters) in just a couple weeks. Pretty impressive management of the talent!

Gurley will dress today for the Blue Bombers today.

There's a difference between a player being released later in the day and a player being released six months later in the offseason. One actually requires giving up assets, the other doesn't.

Winnipeg likely would have been content to keep Willy as its backup through the end of the season.

[1971GreyCup]

There's a difference between a player being released later in the day and a player being released six months later in the offseason. One actually requires giving up assets, the other doesn't.

Winnipeg likely would have been content to keep Willy as its backup through the end of the season.

Which begs the question why didn't the Argos move the guys to the PR or suspend them. The PR roster was just expanded. There is a pretty good chance these guys can come back to haunt you for no benefit. We are trying to make the playoffs, right? We just strengthened three opponents with no benefit in return.

[argolio]

Any player on a PR can be claimed by another team. As far as I know, the suspension list is for players who haven't reported or have left the team for some personal situation.

We won five games with them and they apparently acted like schmucks. If they can't handle the bad times like pros, I don't care what they might do with other teams.

[gilthethrill]

Which begs the question why didn't the Argos move the guys to the PR or suspend them. The PR roster was just expanded. There is a pretty good chance these guys can come back to haunt you for no benefit. We are trying to make the playoffs, right? We just strengthened three opponents with no benefit in return.

There is no evidence that these 3 trouble makers have strengthened other teams. Perhaps they smarten up after the Argos cut them, but only time will tell.

[Argo57]

There is no evidence that these 3 trouble makers have strengthened other teams. Perhaps they smarten up after the Argos cut them, but only time will tell.

I'm sure they have filled a need for the teams that have signed them, will be different for them entering established locker rooms where they will have to fit in.

[1971GreyCup]

While SM and Barker publicly didn't want to outright say anything about the 3 Towers releases, much was made of the facts that it was attitude problems. Today the Blue Bombers felt that the other side of the story should be told. On their website they released Gurley's side of the story. I was fortunate to meet Tori's mother and grandfather and Tori while he played here. I for one accept his version of the events.

Several games ago SM hesitated to challenge and an Argo's receiver should have insisted but didn't. Many questioned why the lack of communication between receiver and SM. I guess we know why. Gurley communicated with SM last game. He's now gone.

http://www.bluebombers.com/2016/10/09/a-fresh-start-tori-gurley/

[ArgoGabe22]

I'm not going to pick sides here but of course someone in Gurley's position will try to defend themselves a bit. Someone in Milanovich's position will also try to defend their position without disrespecting anyone so it's hard to get the truth IMO.

If anyone watched Gurley on the sidelines, it's a lot different then say Milanovich communicating with his QB. Not sure yelling is the best form of communication.

[gilthethrill]

I have to agree with what Gurley said about the Argos offense seemingly surrendering on 2nd down.

[doubleblue]

So who is going to wear the goat horns and get cut this week? The defensive back field or the defensive line? Or maybe half the offensive line and play the two kids Sackey and Campbell.

On a serious note I have a great suggestion for Milanovich lining up Drew Willy. Have him stand 15 yards back of the line, forget the 2 yard run by Whitaker and have two blockers line up like a punt formation and just pass. That way he might get 3 steamboats to throw, and if that's not enough time go back another 5 yards. :)

[OV Argo]

So who is going to wear the goat horns and get cut this week? The defensive back field or the defensive line? Or maybe half the offensive line and play the two kids Sackey and Campbell.

On a serious note I have a great suggestion for Milanovich lining up Drew Willy. Have him stand 15 yards back of the line, forget the 2 yard run by Whitaker and have two blockers line up like a punt formation and just pass. That way he might get 3 steamboats to throw, and if that's not enough time go back another 5 yards. :)


Surely there are some more players for Millanovich to scapegoat?

But not Drew Willy though - guy is a fantastic QB - awesome 83.9 completion % today - that blew away what Bo Mitchell did in the game; nice job of sticking with Willy the entire game too, as he really had the Argos competing and on the verge of getting back in the game at anytime; excellent help from the ground game today too. This offence is getting close to being something. Willy the Argo QB of the future for sure - sign him long-term and give extensions to Millnovich & Brady too please.

What a pathetic football team they have evolved into this season - gotta give credit to the leadership from the GM & HC.

:o

[KCargosfan]

Surely there are some more players for Millanovich to scapegoat?

But not Drew Willy though - guy is a fantastic QB - awesome 83.9 completion % today - that blew away what Bo Mitchell did in the game; nice job of sticking with Willy the entire game too, as he really had the Argos competing and on the verge of getting back in the game at anytime; excellent help from the ground game today too. This offence is getting close to being something. Willy the Argo QB of the future for sure - sign him long-term and give extensions to Millnovich & Brady too please.

What a pathetic football team they have evolved into this season - gotta give credit to the leadership from the GM & HC.

:o

Anyone with a sensible mind knows Milanovich and Barker are out the door. It's now who comes in next year.

What non-CIS guys would you approve of?

[Nob]

Mike Benevides.

A Toronto boy who had head coaching experience. Yes, it didn't end well earlier in BC, but I'm a believer that coaches are better the second gig (exhibit A: Bellichik, Bill). He's a great D guy, and clearly there are big issues there....... look what he's doing in Deadmonton.

Don't know who you would get to be GM and OC, but my vote for next coach is Benevides.

[OV Argo]

Anyone with a sensible mind knows Milanovich and Barker are out the door. It's now who comes in next year.

What non-CIS guys would you approve of?

Sensible minds ? - LOL.

I wouldn't count any chickens before they are hatched there; we shall see - weren't some here saying they should be extended or have the full confidence of ownership - with the Willy trade as evidence of this; gotta give Millanovich & Willy a chance with a full TC to run that sharp & oh so sophisticated offence.

There will be ample time for a discussion of all the recycled/re-hired CFL GOBs who should be up for HC, OC, DC, GM - after we see evidence of this brain-trust punted wayyyyy out of town. ;o) SnowRouge was touting Sunderland (?) from the RedBlacks for GM and Benevides (gawd no please) for HC.

[KCargosfan]

Sensible minds ? - LOL.

I wouldn't count any chickens before they are hatched there; we shall see - weren't some here saying they should be extended or have the full confidence of ownership - with the Willy trade as evidence of this; gotta give Millanovich & Willy a chance with a full TC to run that sharp & oh so sophisticated offence.

There will be ample time for a discussion of all the recycled/re-hired CFL GOBs who should be up for HC, OC, DC, GM - after we see evidence of this brain-trust punted wayyyyy out of town. ;o) SnowRouge was touting Sunderland (?) from the RedBlacks for GM and Benevides (gawd no please) for HC.

I can't see any reasonable circumstance where the current regime is retained.

Again, who would YOU like to see come in?

[OV Argo]

I can't see any reasonable circumstance where the current regime is retained.

Again, who would YOU like to see come in?

You said non-CIS guys right - does that exclude all former CIS coaches who have had some CFL coaching experience as well?

I said before here - I would like to see Stef Ptaszek get a CFL HC shot - and he now has a year's CFL experience at least - as Kenty's OC, er errand boy ;o)

Would have liked Stef to get a CFL HC shot - based on lots of coaching experience - won a Vanier as an OC with Laurier, and lots of HC experience including running a strong Mac team that also won a national Championship; IMO a very sharp offensive coach who has displayed smarts & diversity with his offences; he also played a number of years in the CFL, including playing for the Argos. GOB fans would claim he doesn't have the necessary experience to coach in the sophisticated (sic/LOL) CFL and needs to spend years apprenticing as an assistant coach - which to me is totally laughable when dullards like Bart Andrus or that guy (Hawkins ?) that Poop hired for the Als a couple of years back have got handed CFL HC gigs with ZERO experience in or understanding of Canadian football. Millanovich made CFL HC based on what ? - being a buddy of Jim Barker ?

GM ? - I'd go with Ravi ;o)

[paulwoods13]

I can see a scenario in which Barker stays as GM but is forced to, or chooses to, hire a new head coach. I'm not sure a better GM can be found at this point. Hufnagel won't leave Edm, and Wally won't leave B.C. Maybe Tillman would leave Hamilton but I doubt it. I like Chris Rosetti and would love to see him come back from Miami but I don't know if he would, and I don't know if he's ready to be a GM anyway. Maybe Sunderland from Ottawa but I don't know if he's as good as SnowRogue made him out to be. Is Trestman ready/interested to be a GM rather than a coach? Worth finding out.

As for the head coach, if Milanovich goes the most obvious candidates would be Steinauer (if available -- not sure he would be), LaPolice, Benevides and Trestman. I guess Chamblin could be added to that list as well. Maybe Mark Killam, too.

Whoever coaches this team next year needs to hire good assistants, and we need to find a way to keep them. We had a great staff in 2012 but have had a succession of coaches come and go since then. Four DCs in four seasons, possibly as many ST coordinators and o-line coaches. It shows. This is one area where I think Milanovich has really failed. He inherited O'Shea and Steinauer from Barker, brought Jones in himself but otherwise has not hired any assistants who have excelled and/or stuck around.

[Argo57]

Surely there are some more players for Millanovich to scapegoat?

But not Drew Willy though - guy is a fantastic QB - awesome 83.9 completion % today - that blew away what Bo Mitchell did in the game; nice job of sticking with Willy the entire game too, as he really had the Argos competing and on the verge of getting back in the game at anytime; excellent help from the ground game today too. This offence is getting close to being something. Willy the Argo QB of the future for sure - sign him long-term and give extensions to Millnovich & Brady too please.

What a pathetic football team they have evolved into this season - gotta give credit to the leadership from the GM & HC.

:o

Milanovich and Barker did sell ownership on the trade for Willy however if the team's performance (and Willy's) continue on the same path until seasons end this trade could actually seal their fate and prompt change.

[KCargosfan]

I can see a scenario in which Barker stays as GM but is forced to, or chooses to, hire a new head coach. I'm not sure a better GM can be found at this point. Hufnagel won't leave Edm, and Wally won't leave B.C. Maybe Tillman would leave Hamilton but I doubt it. I like Chris Rosetti and would love to see him come back from Miami but I don't know if he would, and I don't know if he's ready to be a GM anyway. Maybe Sunderland from Ottawa but I don't know if he's as good as SnowRogue made him out to be. Is Trestman ready/interested to be a GM rather than a coach? Worth finding out.

As for the head coach, if Milanovich goes the most obvious candidates would be Steinauer (if available -- not sure he would be), LaPolice, Benevides and Trestman. I guess Chamblin could be added to that list as well. Maybe Mark Killam, too.

Whoever coaches this team next year needs to hire good assistants, and we need to find a way to keep them. We had a great staff in 2012 but have had a succession of coaches come and go since then. Four DCs in four seasons, possibly as many ST coordinators and o-line coaches. It shows. This is one area where I think Milanovich has really failed. He inherited O'Shea and Steinauer from Barker, brought Jones in himself but otherwise has not hired any assistants who have excelled and/or stuck around.

True on all regards.

After the last 2 games where we just got absolutely shredded, I just find it hard to believe anyone comes back after we have lost 8 of 9 and seem on pace to lose 11 of 12 to end the year, or likely best-case scenario, lose 10 of 12 to end the year. The last 4 weeks have just been hell.

But I've been horrifically wrong on most things this season, so we'll likely win 3 straight to end the year and win the East.

[R.J]

All three were headaches this and last season, so I get why the decision was made, but I do question the timing of it.

[1971GreyCup]

Lots of innuendos about the Toronto TJ Heath and Tori Gurley left behind in the Blue Bombers videos below. I for one are happy for them to continue their careers and wouldn't be surprised if their future success is just a couple more nails in the coach's and GM's coffin.

http://www.bluebombers.com/2016/10/07/tj-heath-interviews-tori-gurley/

http://www.bluebombers.com/2016/10/11/week-17-day-1-gurley/

I got to think that Barker and SM aren't to pleased with all the Winnipeg media coming out for Gurley.

[Ron]

Lots of innuendos about the Toronto TJ Heath and Tori Gurley left behind in the Blue Bombers videos below. I for one are happy for them to continue their careers and wouldn't be surprised if their future success is just a couple more nails in the coach's and GM's coffin.

http://www.bluebombers.com/2016/10/07/tj-heath-interviews-tori-gurley/

http://www.bluebombers.com/2016/10/11/week-17-day-1-gurley/

I got to think that Barker and SM aren't to pleased with all the Winnipeg media coming out for Gurley.

Clearly Heath was traded because he was one of them.

[ArgoRavi]

True on all regards.

After the last 2 games where we just got absolutely shredded, I just find it hard to believe anyone comes back after we have lost 8 of 9 and seem on pace to lose 11 of 12 to end the year, or likely best-case scenario, lose 10 of 12 to end the year. The last 4 weeks have just been hell.

But I've been horrifically wrong on most things this season, so we'll likely win 3 straight to end the year and win the East.

I think that many fans can somewhat accept losing close games - although there would still be great frustration - but losing in blowout fashion which has happened far too often this season is a whole other thing. I said in another thread that seasons like 1985 (6-10) and 2014 ((8-10) were off-seasons as both years featured mostly close losses. This year, however, has simply been a bad year with too many one-sided defeats.

[1971GreyCup]

What is it about Barker and SM and their radical handling of young players? Looking at the starting lineup for the BC Lions and can't help but remember WR Terrell Sinkfield. I remember when he was released by the Argonauts in August 2014. Sinkfield was coming off his best game in which he caught 4 passes for 44 yards and a TD. He also had 109 return yards in the game.

Of course, he then signs with Hamilton and helps them get to the Grey Cup while playing very well against us. A talented receiver, playing well for others.

Is there no ability to help mold young men?

[paulwoods13]

Clearly not, since there are no good young players on the Argos and haven't been since 2009.

[1971GreyCup]

Clearly, Justin Dunk doesn't know what he is talking about this week regarding Tori Gurley:

"After being released by Toronto and snatched up by Winnipeg, import receiver Tori Gurley will join the Bombers’ starting lineup. The six-foot-four, 230-lb. pass catcher adds a physical presence to a Winnipeg corps that needed one. Matt Nichols must be excited to have a target like Gurley to throw the ball up to."

[AngeloV]

Clearly, Justin Dunk doesn't know what he is talking about this week regarding Tori Gurley:

"After being released by Toronto and snatched up by Winnipeg, import receiver Tori Gurley will join the Bombers’ starting lineup. The six-foot-four, 230-lb. pass catcher adds a physical presence to a Winnipeg corps that needed one. Matt Nichols must be excited to have a target like Gurley to throw the ball up to."

What's your point? Getting pretty tired of all the sarcasm going on around here. Obviously, the Argos weren't where they expected to be. They are going in a different direction. Live with it. Just like I live with the fact that Barker and Milo may not be back, and I don't think that would be good. It's been a really bad year, we get it. But that doesn't mean every player the Argos have gotten rid of was a bad decision. I applaud the fact that they only want guys here that want to be here. Good teammates aren't guys that are only good teammates when you are winning. Pinball, Mookie, Masotti, Jeff Johnson, Carl Brazley, Don Moen, and so many others all played on bad teams at some point in their careers, but never had any character issues come up.

[ArgoGabe22]

The team still stunk with all these guys in the lineup.

[1971GreyCup]

What's your point? Getting pretty tired of all the sarcasm going on around here. Obviously, the Argos weren't where they expected to be. They are going in a different direction. Live with it. Just like I live with the fact that Barker and Milo may not be back, and I don't think that would be good. It's been a really bad year, we get it. But that doesn't mean every player the Argos have gotten rid of was a bad decision. I applaud the fact that they only want guys here that want to be here. Good teammates aren't guys that are only good teammates when you are winning. Pinball, Mookie, Masotti, Jeff Johnson, Carl Brazley, Don Moen, and so many others all played on bad teams at some point in their careers, but never had any character issues come up.

I am sorry, but I just don't buy the case these players are/were bad characters. I grew up with Leo Cahill's and his characters. Bobby Taylor, Leon McQuay, Mel Profit. Fan base grew from nothing to 33,000 in 1970. Leo was no football technician. He knew what the fans wanted.

Marketing loves the flamboyant guys until SM gets rid of them. I don't think you can be different, or a character on SM's team. As much as you are SM and Barker, I feel the opposite. They turn over the team and get rid of the marquee players. The fans stay home in droves. Is that the reason, I don't know. What is the heart and sole of this team?

I can agree to disagree. I have loved this team through 6 decades. Never not supported the 'A'. I don't doubt that you love as well. But for the first time, I worry about the future of the franchise and subsequently the CFL.

I would welcome SM and JB with open arms if the fan base were growing and interest in the Argos was even measurable in Toronto. They were given the best conditions the team has had in thirty years this year and they dropped the ball. And dropped it big time! Until this alarming situation changes, I will continue to be vocal. It beats quitting on the team.

[1971GreyCup]

The team still stunk with all these guys in the lineup.

I think someone said the team would still stink with Tom Brady. Where then does the problem lie, Tom Brady?

[PullTogether73]

Clearly, Justin Dunk doesn't know what he is talking about this week regarding Tori Gurley:

"After being released by Toronto and snatched up by Winnipeg, import receiver Tori Gurley will join the Bombers’ starting lineup. The six-foot-four, 230-lb. pass catcher adds a physical presence to a Winnipeg corps that needed one. Matt Nichols must be excited to have a target like Gurley to throw the ball up to."

Justin Dunk referred to Gurley as an "import"?
Neanderthal.
Or should that be "GOB"?

[AngeloV]

I would welcome SM and JB with open arms if the fan base were growing and interest in the Argos was even measurable in Toronto.

With all the papering of the house for the last 20 years or so, we have no knowledge of the actual interest rate and how much it is growing or plummeting. As I said, it's a bad year. I don't give up on these guys because of 1 bad year.