Oct. 15: Roughriders @ Argonauts

[PullTogether73]

I know this is the best chance for an Argonauts victory over their last three games, but I don't see it.
I know Milanovich pointed out that the Argos out scored the Stampeders in the second half yesterday as an indication of improvement, but...seriously?

Riders are a much improved team. I expect them to have more pride than the scullers tbh.:(

[mchesher03]

i think little of the riders but i think less of the argos. especially after they rolled over and died yesterday. looking forward to the pre-game tailgate at least.

[Argo57]

I know this is the best chance for an Argonauts victory over their last three games, but I don't see it.
I know Milanovich pointed out that the Argos out scored the Stampeders in the second half yesterday as an indication of improvement, but...seriously?

Riders are a much improved team. I expect them to have more pride than the scullers tbh.:(

I'm afraid Milanovich is grasping at straws at this point in trying to put a positive spin on a dreadful team and effort.

[ArgoRavi]

This has been one depressing season but let's have at least one more win before this season is done and hopefully that can happen on Saturday against the Riders.

[Argo57]

This has been one depressing season but let's have at least one more win before this season is done and hopefully that can happen on Saturday against the Riders.

Agreed Ravi, would be nice for the players as well!!

[AngeloV]

I'm afraid Milanovich is grasping at straws at this point in trying to put a positive spin on a dreadful team and effort.

Agreed, but what else could he do?

[1971GreyCup]

I know this is the best chance for an Argonauts victory over their last three games, but I don't see it.
I know Milanovich pointed out that the Argos out scored the Stampeders in the second half yesterday as an indication of improvement, but...seriously?

Riders are a much improved team. I expect them to have more pride than the scullers tbh.:(

SM also pointed out that the Argos had the right plan for the Stampeders, but the players didn't execute it. Excuse me??

[Argo57]

Agreed, but what else could he do?

Nothing Angelo thats my point, he is desperately trying to hold onto this team.
Actually feel bad for him TBH.

[Ron]

I know this is the best chance for an Argonauts victory over their last three games, but I don't see it.
I know Milanovich pointed out that the Argos out scored the Stampeders in the second half yesterday as an indication of improvement, but...seriously?

Riders are a much improved team. I expect them to have more pride than the scullers tbh.:(

I didn't see this before I posted in another thread ... but he has a point. Did anyone really think the Argos with their issues last week were going to beat Calgary? No. But they did show some signs that things are not as lost as the negativity makes it out to be.

They will have a better showing this week and have a good shot at getting back into the playoff race. (with Hammer losing)

[Argo]

I didn't see this before I posted in another thread ... but he has a point. Did anyone really think the Argos with their issues last week were going to beat Calgary? No. But they did show some signs that things are not as lost as the negativity makes it out to be.

They will have a better showing this week and have a good shot at getting back into the playoff race. (with Hammer losing)

I'm sticking with my previous "outlook" statement: every game a loss. Not fun, however this set of results will finally and completely rule out any attempt at "polishing a turd".

[Wobbler]

I think this is a winnable game, and it would be terrific to end our home season with a victory. I'm probably not going to see it, since I'll be doing family stuff, but fingers crossed...

[Scooter McCray]

I was expecting a competitive effort on Monday along g with some creative play calling to the young receivers. Since that did not happen I expect them to lose out the rest of the way. That should prompt ownership to realize they need to clean house. Calls should already have been made to Trestman.

[1971GreyCup]

This will be an interesting game. At the end of the game, we'll be able to measure the progress, or regression, of both teams since Week #4. I expect the Riders to continue higher in the Power Rankings. They won't make the playoffs in 2016, but I expect them to be a force from next year onwards.

Also will be able to critique the player moves in the preseason and during 2016 season. Both made some radical moves.

[paulwoods13]

I was expecting a competitive effort on Monday along g with some creative play calling to the young receivers. Since that did not happen I expect them to lose out the rest of the way. That should prompt ownership to realize they need to clean house. Calls should already have been made to Trestman.

Calls should be made to Trestman only if he is in line for the GM job, or Barker is keeping the GM job. Hiring a head coach before a GM would be a terrible idea. I don't know if Trestman has what it takes to be a GM, but if Barker is going to be terminated I see no reason Trestman couldn't have his tires kicked a bit.

[Scooter McCray]

Calls should be made to Trestman only if he is in line for the GM job, or Barker is keeping the GM job. Hiring a head coach before a GM would be a terrible idea. I don't know if Trestman has what it takes to be a GM, but if Barker is going to be terminated I see no reason Trestman couldn't have his tires kicked a bit.I am torn here. I have no idea if Trestman can do both jobs. It is a big risk to give him both and hope for the best. He was a very good coach but don't forget he went to a very good team that was underachieving with a HOF QB that still had gas in the tank. The situation here likely needs a strong rebuild. I just don't know who else is available of his calibre.

[R.J]

Riders are nowhere near the same team we played in week 2. I'm just looking for some compete at this point.

[AngeloV]

Riders are nowhere near the same team we played in week 2. I'm just looking for some compete at this point.

They are a badly injured team right now too. I think it's a coin toss.

[argotom]

They are a badly injured team right now too. I think it's a coin toss.


Except they have a QB with some pretty good receivers.

[Will]

It definitely isn't a gimme that's for sure.

[doubleblue]

Except they have a QB with some pretty good receivers.

And they have been adding a few good veterans. Muamba, Jefferson, Fuller, Gaydosh and King is back at left tackle for them.

[AngeloV]

Except they have a QB with some pretty good receivers.

Roosevelt, Edwards, Fuller and Demski are all out from their receiving core. They got beat up pretty badly in Ottawa last week from an injury perspective. A huge reason why Ottawa was able to make that comeback in the 4th.

[1971GreyCup]

Their record doesn't show it, but by any other measure Rider Nation = success.

http://panow.com/column/602911/riders-out-playoff-lead-league-marketing-attendance

[Al&Kat]

i think little of the riders but i think less of the argos. especially after they rolled over and died yesterday. looking forward to the pre-game tailgate at least.

What he said, word-4-word.

[1971GreyCup]

Frank Zicarelli in his article Argos home-wrecked wrote that Argos will get defensive back A.J. Jefferson back and will usher in the CFL debut of offensive lineman Davonte Wallace, an American who has been learning the ropes on the team’s practice roster.

Linebackers Brandon Isaac and Marshall McFadden are both out with ankle and knee injuries, respectively.

[R.J]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Argos?src=hash">#Argos</a> depth chart for Saturday's home game vs. <a href="https://twitter.com/sskroughriders">@sskroughriders</a>. <br><br>IN &gt; Bradfield, Jefferson, Wallace<br>OUT &gt; Isaac, McFadden, Watman <a href="https://t.co/8Ap8JBwBAQ">pic.twitter.com/8Ap8JBwBAQ</a></p>&mdash; Toronto Argonauts PR (@Argonauts_PR) <a href="https://twitter.com/Argonauts_PR/status/786944920393244673">October 14, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Your Green &amp; White depth-chart as they look to make it four-straight wins tomorrow from BMO Field. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFL?src=hash">#CFL</a><br><br>Preview--&gt; <a href="https://t.co/eEWi79uoo3">https://t.co/eEWi79uoo3</a> <a href="https://t.co/hmKvKGmn7J">pic.twitter.com/hmKvKGmn7J</a></p>&mdash; Sask. Roughriders (@sskroughriders) <a href="https://twitter.com/sskroughriders/status/786937550229348352">October 14, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[doubleblue]

Good to see a big body in at RG in the form of Wallace. I see he's been on the PR for a while now trying to learn this "difficult" offense.
I can remember the days when a NFL cut would come in and play a few days later, no problem. I wonder sometimes if teams are over coached now. Don't see any improvement in the play and teams are taking more penalties then they did back in the "good old days". Back then the big thing for Imports was the 5 yard rule on the punts.

[Ron]

With the Argos winning this week and Hammer losing ... the march to 2nd is on.

[gilthethrill]

Interesting that Saskatchewan shows 4 qb's on their chart. I see Bridge at #3 over that "Troubled Waters".

[Argo]

With the Argos winning this week and Hammer losing ... the march to 2nd is on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hgw_RD_1_5I

[OV Argo]

The return of Jefferson to the secondary could help quite a bit.

Starting a raw rookie O-lineman might be asking for trouble.

Elsworth at MLB ??? - whatever - i guess Miles is maybe still not ready or injured some ?

Foley & Waud still "injured" ?


Another "must win" game? - like last game against the Stamps, or the game before, or ...

[Ron]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hgw_RD_1_5I

LOL

I have a challenge to all the guys from here attending the game this weekend. I challenge you to go to the game optimistic the team will win. Fully believing the team will win. Cheering the team (either out loud or in your heart) as they play. Give them the benefit of the doubt. Encourage them if they fall behind early.

Because I believe the negative waves from fans who want coaches or GM's fired, etc ... are what are hurting the team. All those negative waves!

[1971GreyCup]

LOL

I have a challenge to all the guys from here attending the game this weekend. I challenge you to go to the game optimistic the team will win. Fully believing the team will win. Cheering the team (either out loud or in your heart) as they play. Give them the benefit of the doubt. Encourage them if they fall behind early.

Because I believe the negative waves from fans who want coaches or GM's fired, etc ... are what are hurting the team. All those negative waves!

Ron,

We'll be there tomorrow. We always start with the premise that the Argos will win. We were in Calgary and were shocked when the Argos took a 20 point lead into half time.

We're rooting on a turn around for the teams fortunes! Hoping for the best, planning for the worst.

[OV Argo]

LOL

I have a challenge to all the guys from here attending the game this weekend. I challenge you to go to the game optimistic the team will win. Fully believing the team will win. Cheering the team (either out loud or in your heart) as they play. Give them the benefit of the doubt. Encourage them if they fall behind early.

Because I believe the negative waves from fans who want coaches or GM's fired, etc ... are what are hurting the team. All those negative waves!


You can call me Moriarity, baby.

You bought a Tiger(cat) tank ???

[PullTogether73]

LOL

I have a challenge to all the guys from here attending the game this weekend. I challenge you to go to the game optimistic the team will win. Fully believing the team will win. Cheering the team (either out loud or in your heart) as they play. Give them the benefit of the doubt. Encourage them if they fall behind early.

Because I believe the negative waves from fans who want coaches or GM's fired, etc ... are what are hurting the team. All those negative waves!

I'm just hoping that, as an Argos fan, I'll have reason to stay beyond the first half of this game.
I didn't for the Calgary game last Monday.:biteme:

[ArgoRavi]

Foley & Waud still "injured" ?


Why the suspicion here? It was reported in the papers this week that Foley has nerve damage in a foot while Waud did indeed go down with an injury in a recent game.

[AngeloV]

I'm just hoping that, as an Argos fan, I'll have reason to stay beyond the first half of this game.
I didn't for the Calgary game last Monday.:biteme:

Well then you missed the best part of the game...watching to see if the squirrel on the field would get into the end zone. It did. TD baby!!!!

[Scooter McCray]

With Hamilton losing tonight the Argos still have a legitimate shot at the playoffs. Riders have made a bunch of changes this week. If the Argos are unable to pull off a win at home they might as well start the housecleaning next week.

[Stevoman]

Sucks for Foley.

[gilthethrill]

Was not able to make it to the game, was looking forward to listening to the pre game show on TSN 1050, but ESPN radio is on....darn! Go Argos!!!!!

[jerrym]

Great return by Spencer, who has been the Argo's best player since his return IMO.

[jerrym]

Whitaker's fumble is representative of the story of the Argo season: even when they get good field position, they blow it.

[jerrym]

Jefferson's interception being overturned by a penalty continues a many years pattern of Argo penalties wiping out critical plays.

[jerrym]

3 TDs in 41 drives and never a lead under Willy says it all.

[jerrym]

The holes in the Argo O line and the D line are of the Swiss cheese variety.

[jerrym]

Ridiculous! Craig let's the ball go by him, waits for the Argos to surround and then runs straight ahead through them for a 68 yard TD without being touched. Can they at least try to stop them?

[jerrym]

Argos blow an opportunity for a FG before the half with another penalty.

[jerrym]

The game: two teams with over 90 players in action over the season - one rapidly improving and the other disintegrating.

[OV Argo]

Really looking forward to seeing Millanovich & Brady return next season to guide the Argos "offence" with Drew Willy at the controls at QB - a fresh start from TC on in should produce some very exciting and high scoring offence.

[argoscott]

Adjustments the guy said, I`ll give you adjustments, fire the coach and GM. I understand Tressman is taking offers, but if he lands in Montreal I would be very happy with Jaques Chapdelaine

[1971GreyCup]

Remember, no lead is safe in the CFL.

Most strategic move by the Argos in the first half was to shutdown the scoreboard. Unfortunately it's operating again.

[jerrym]

113 yards in the first half for McKnight says it all for how porous the Argo DL is.

[Stevoman]

It's not like they're playing the Stamps again...why the heck can't they do anything???

[1971GreyCup]

Tweet from no less than Diane Clemons:

I'm sorry but our beloved @Argonauts_PR need a real #shakeup from the #TOP #DOWN #itsnottheplayers #stoplettinggoodplayersgo

[DoubleBlue1873]

At least they didn't surrender a TD to Mitchell Gale...yet.

[jerrym]

Brian Jones looks like he can be a first string receiver as he develops with the potential to be a YAC man because of his size.

[1971GreyCup]

I am afraid tomorrow that the Argos will point out that they outscored the Riders in the 2nd half 3 - 2.

[argoscott]

If I am in charge, Milanovich, Barker and Willy are on the next bus out of town, direction unimportant just the next bus... We probably win at least 2 games with Dan Lef...had they not made the dumb trades and left Dan starting QB

[jerrym]

I love Whitaker and he's still doing it as shown on his TD, but he'll be 32 next year and RBs can wear out fast, especially after 30. I'd love to see him back as he could still be their #1 RB, but the Argos better also be looking for another very good RB because of his age and the high risk of RB injury at any age.

[DoubleBlue1873]

And Whitaker scores! Set up by another nice return by Spencer.

[Stevoman]

I am afraid tomorrow that the Argos will point out that they outscored the Riders in the 2nd half 3 - 2.

Fantastic post!

[jerrym]

Another nice catch by Brian Jones.

[jerrym]

What a major rebuild the Argos need. So sad after new ownership and a new park offered so much promise for building fan support.

[OV Argo]

Brian Jones looks like he can be a first string receiver as he develops with the potential to be a YAC man because of his size.


IF, the Argos offensive thinkers decide to have one NI in the starting receiver corps next year, Jones could be that guy. I wonder if the Durie/Coombs hybrid slot position might be deleted ?

[DoubleBlue1873]

Or why not make Coombs a more regular part of the offence? He's been underused the past two years, IMO. Agree that Jones shows good potential.

[gilthethrill]

I watched the game on PVR. I rarely fast forward during an Argo game, but found myself doing just that in garbage time. Garbage time being just before half time. Very sad seeing this team quickly resemble the Bart Andrus led team of 2009. It's going to be a very interesting offseason....at least it should be.

[doubleblue]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Coombs high tailed back to Winnipeg in the off season as he should be a free agent. Jones should be a starter next season for sure. Noel eventually as well.
McEwen is a fixture at Center. Holmes has had an average year but should look better with a big lock down Left Tackle. I would move Van Zeyl into Right Guard and find another Tackle. The Argo have had several pretty good ones the last few year and let them go. Washinton, King, Campbell and Sir Rogers. Three of them still in the League and Campbell might be if they had kept him in Toronto.
Waud, (maybe Laing back) Greenwood and Gabriel gives them 3 good starters on defense. Pretty good shape for Canadian talent going forward.
So Jim you have done a good job building up the Canadian talent including the new Kicker. But you screwed up big time on just about everything else this year.

[argotom]

Just got back from BMO, another poor effort.
The D was horrible with the front line unable to stop the run, not much pressure on Durrant either.
Only Greenwood and Jefferson played with a degree of urgency and are blue chippers.
The offence well that was offensive.
Willy is horrible, so far the steal trade of the year by the BB.
He is not the answer and may not be good enough to be even a back up.
I would bring Dan back to complete and would start for me the rest of the season.
Let's also see Kilgore in one of the two games.
Major reconstruction needed as this is a mess.

[Neely2005]

Just got back from BMO, another poor effort.
The D was horrible with the front line unable to stop the run, not much pressure on Durrant either.
Only Greenwood and Jefferson played with a degree of urgency and are blue chippers.
The offence well that was offensive.
Willy is horrible, so far the steal trade of the year by the BB.
He is not the answer and may not be good enough to be even a back up.
I would bring Dan back to complete and would start for me the rest of the season.
Let's also see Kilgore in one of the two games.
Major reconstruction needed as this is a mess.

I thought that Lemon and Whitaker played well too.

[Will]

Poor field position all day cost the Argos. Defence didn't make any stops that would've afforded the Argos better field position and given the anemic offence the Argos were giving Saskatchewan good field position all day.

[Neely2005]

Poor field position all day cost the Argos. Defence didn't make any stops that would've afforded the Argos better field position and given the anemic offence the Argos were giving Saskatchewan good field position all day.

I thought that there were some pretty questionable roughing the passer calls too.

[R.J]

Adjustments the guy said, I`ll give you adjustments, fire the coach and GM. I understand Trestman is taking offers, but if he lands in Montreal I would be very happy with Jaques Chapdelaine
As Head Coach or Offensive Coordinator ?

[R.J]

Milanovich's Post Game: http://www.argonauts.ca/2016/10/15/scott-milanovich-post-game-week-17-saskatchewan/

[jerrym]

Just watched the replay of the Craig TD and realized the official was running down the field faster than the two Argos chasing him. Says it all about the Argo effort today.

[Shatto]

So were there any good aspects today's debacle? Yes but only a few:
1)Jones looked very good and will only get better.
2)Durie was effective when used --which was not often enough.
3)On D Greenwood, Lemon, and Jefferson played hard all game.
4)One positive aspect should be that even a stubborn Milanovich must now realize, Willy is an ineffective QB; so hopefully we wont have to see him start any more games--thank goodness

Missed the squirrel though!

[Argocister]

Whitaker's fumble is representative of the story of the Argo season: even when they get good field position, they blow it.

Totally my Dads fault, he called it ..... " no reason we can't get a TD here unless they turn it over " .....sorry shouldn't have brought him.


The holes in the Argo O line and the D line are of the Swiss cheese variety.

Sieve


So were there any good aspects today's debacle? Yes but only a few:
1)Jones looked very good and will only get better.
2)Durie was effective when used --which was not often enough.
3)On D Greenwood, Lemon, and Jefferson played hard all game.
4)One positive aspect should be that even a stubborn Milanovich must now realize, Willy is an ineffective QB; so hopefully we wont have to see him start any more games--thank goodness

Missed the squirrel though!

Totally agree .... Although it sounds that Milanovich wants to give more chances in the post game interview ..... He was starting to throw off his back foot and losing his confidence . We don't want that to happen.

So maybe we look to seeing Willy start the next 2games and then when Willy becomes Won't he ....then we see Danny boy.
So .... Beginning of the third next game and end of the second last game?

[paulwoods13]

The saddest aspect of all this is that we are still in theoretical contention for a playoff spot so we will start Willy (or maybe Ricky) next week. I'd much rather have more game tape on Kilgore, so whomever is running this team next year has good intelligence on whether or not he should be invited back. Despite how badly he played in his two losses, I still think he may have more potential than any of our other QBs, but without much to go on. I sure hope he plays at least the final game.

[BATKINSON001]

Could part of willys problem be that he is taking too long with his
Reads before throwing the ball.?

[Ron]

Could part of willys problem be that he is taking too long with his
Reads before throwing the ball.?

Duane Ford said many times that nobody was open.

[doubleblue]

Duane Ford said many times that nobody was open.

That's what they said about Willy in Winnipeg. Held unto the ball too long because nobody was open. But Nichols is finding open receivers. A lot of the same players.

The poor guy has lost his confidence, that's why he's holding on to the ball too long.

[paulwoods13]

There were open men downfield at least twice when he threw to a check-down guy or ate the ball. But a lot of times there appeared to be no receivers anywhere on the field. I think it's a combination of a scheme that the league has figured out how to defend, receivers who aren't sure about what they are supposed to do, an o-line that can't block a half-decent pass rush and a QB who has lost his confidence and is unsure of the system. Any one of those things can scupper an offence; all four makes it impossible to work.

[Argo]

The saddest aspect of all this is that we are still in theoretical contention for a playoff spot so we will start Willy (or maybe Ricky) next week. I'd much rather have more game tape on Kilgore, so whomever is running this team next year has good intelligence on whether or not he should be invited back. Despite how badly he played in his two losses, I still think he may have more potential than any of our other QBs, but without much to go on. I sure hope he plays at least the final game.

Milanovich clearly stated that DW is the starter for the remainder of the season (layering the foolishness). If he flip-flops, and starts Ray, fear for Ray's health.

[Neely2005]

Milanovich's Post Game: http://www.argonauts.ca/2016/10/15/scott-milanovich-post-game-week-17-saskatchewan/

Feel bad for him as he actually seems to get what we fans are going through.

[1971GreyCup]

No post-game article in today's Toronto Sun from Frank Zicarelli? He was at SM's post game press conference. Usually the article has mostly been finished by halftime and tweeted with the final score. Why send him if he doesn't report?

[paulwoods13]

No post-game article in today's Toronto Sun from Frank Zicarelli? He was at SM's post game press conference. Usually the article has mostly been finished by halftime and tweeted with the final score. Why send him if he doesn't report?

There's a two-page spread on the game written by Zicarelli. How anyone could suggest the Sun doesn't write game reports about the Argos is a mystery.

[PullTogether73]

Not sure if anyone posted this already, but the Argos once again out scored their opponent in the second half for the second consecutive game.

I know that makes for a climate of optimism, doesn't it?
:p

[1971GreyCup]

There's a two-page spread on the game written by Zicarelli. How anyone could suggest the Sun doesn't write game reports about the Argos is a mystery.


Paul, sorry but I have to settle for online version living out in the GTA 905 area. Not to be found! Want me to drive in and a look for a hard copy paper? Sheesh

Find me the link, I'd love to read something on the game.

[PullTogether73]

Paul, sorry but I have to settle for online version living out in the GTA 905 area. Not to be found! Want me to drive in and a look for a hard copy paper? Sheesh

Find me the link, I'd love to read something on the game.

Well, you said there was no game article, and Paul pointed out there was.
I don't see how you can get mad at him.

You should have said there is no online game article.

[1971GreyCup]

There's a two-page spread on the game written by Zicarelli. How anyone could suggest the Sun doesn't write game reports about the Argos is a mystery.

Sorry, I guess I misread the last sentence as condescending. I am sure Paul meant that in the most helpful manner.

Either way Paul, mystery is solved.

[jerrym]

But a lot of times there appeared to be no receivers anywhere on the field. I think it's a combination of a scheme that the league has figured out how to defend, receivers who aren't sure about what they are supposed to do, an o-line that can't block a half-decent pass rush and a QB who has lost his confidence and is unsure of the system. Any one of those things can scupper an offence; all four makes it impossible to work.

I agree completely. The inexperience of much of the receiving corps may be overcome with time, but Milanovich's inability to adjust the offence to defences that have figured out how to defend what was once a successful but now a totally predictable offence after years of growing problems in this area does not augur well for the future with him as coach.

[ArgoRavi]

Feel bad for him as he actually seems to get what we fans are going through.

It is easy for understandably frustrated fans to demonize both Milanovich and Barker but it isn't like these guys purposely engineered this bad season. They have to be dying inside more than anyone.

[ArgoRavi]

There were open men downfield at least twice when he threw to a check-down guy or ate the ball. But a lot of times there appeared to be no receivers anywhere on the field. I think it's a combination of a scheme that the league has figured out how to defend, receivers who aren't sure about what they are supposed to do, an o-line that can't block a half-decent pass rush and a QB who has lost his confidence and is unsure of the system. Any one of those things can scupper an offence; all four makes it impossible to work.

Well said, Paul. Willy has talent but whether he will ever be in a position to regain his confidence so that we can see that talent is an open question.

[1971GreyCup]

Well, you said there was no game article, and Paul pointed out there was.
I don't see how you can get mad at him.

You should have said there is no online game article.

BTW, Toronto Sun posted the article at 3:28 pm. Reading between the lines in the article, I got the impression Frank Z. reads this post.

[OV Argo]

It is easy for understandably frustrated fans to demonize both Milanovich and Barker but it isn't like these guys purposely engineered this bad season. They have to be dying inside more than anyone.


Yeah, yeah, whatever Ravi.

4 straight seasons of a lot of lousy Argo football - either not making the play-offs or getting beat easily or looking bad when they got there.

Guess what - in pro sports, a GM & HC have a bunch of bad seasons or make lots of questionable to idiotic moves, and they end up getting fired. They had their time, and put together a nice 2012 GC win season; they've been on a slide ever since; their firing is overdue IMO - sorry bout having that opinion though.

[Argo57]

It is easy for understandably frustrated fans to demonize both Milanovich and Barker but it isn't like these guys purposely engineered this bad season. They have to be dying inside more than anyone.

The Argonaut results in the last 4 seasons speak for themselves Ravi.

[REAL]

So were there any good aspects today's debacle? Yes but only a few:
1)Jones looked very good and will only get better.
2)Durie was effective when used --which was not often enough.
3)On D Greenwood, Lemon, and Jefferson played hard all game.
4)One positive aspect should be that even a stubborn Milanovich must now realize, Willy is an ineffective QB; so hopefully we wont have to see him start any more games--thank goodness

Missed the squirrel though!

Argos seem to rely on YAC yards based on the play calling, 2nd and 10 and you throw a pass to #80 at the line of scrimage. Cleary you need the receivers to block for most of these plays to work and this group of receivers other than Noel does a very poor job of that (including JONES). Just saying.......

[doubleblue]

BTW, Toronto Sun posted the article at 3:28 pm. Reading between the lines in the article, I got the impression Frank Z. reads this post.

Of course, where do you think Frank gets his information on the pulse of the Argo Fans. lol

[Ron]

Argos seem to rely on YAC yards based on the play calling, 2nd and 10 and you throw a pass to #80 at the line of scrimage. Cleary you need the receivers to block for most of these plays to work and this group of receivers other than Noel does a very poor job of that (including JONES). Just saying.......

There's lots of bitching about the Argos play calls like your example ... but never stating that all teams do it. They just have more success.

[paulwoods13]

Sorry, I guess I misread the last sentence as condescending. I am sure Paul meant that in the most helpful manner.

Either way Paul, mystery is solved.

My bad. I never thought of online, but the Sun has been very inconsistent in posting articles online lately so I'm not that surprised it couldn't be found there.

[BATKINSON001]

It's time for the team to be restarted. From the team pres on down.

[R.J]

It's time for the team to be restarted. From the team pres on down.
You want Copeland gone as well ?

[PullTogether73]

It's time for the team to be restarted. From the team pres on down.

The owners and senior management have been in place for less than one year.
You want the owners to replace the president already?
SMH.

[Neely2005]

My bad. I never thought of online, but the Sun has been very inconsistent in posting articles online lately so I'm not that surprised it couldn't be found there.

It's online:

http://m.torontosun.com/2016/10/16/argos-demise-starts-at-the-top

[argoscott]

Just got back from BMO, another poor effort.
The D was horrible with the front line unable to stop the run, not much pressure on Durrant either.
Only Greenwood and Jefferson played with a degree of urgency and are blue chippers.
The offence well that was offensive.
Willy is horrible, so far the steal trade of the year by the BB.
He is not the answer and may not be good enough to be even a back up.
I would bring Dan back to complete and would start for me the rest of the season.
Let's also see Kilgore in one of the two games.
Major reconstruction needed as this is a mess.


I agree with you that we should go with Dan LeF...., he should have remained the starter, never should have traded for Willy and never should have cut all our receivers .

If they decide to cut a QB, it should be Willy or Kilalgore

[argoscott]

The owners and senior management have been in place for less than one year.
You want the owners to replace the president already?
SMH.

Some of the ownership I believe was on record for wanting a NFL team in Toronto, so I am not so sure that Argo owners are that concerned about the current situation

[argoscott]

And it was all because of Dan LeF... in the 4th qtr

[paulwoods13]

I agree with you that we should go with Dan LeF...., he should have remained the starter, never should have traded for Willy and never should have cut all our receivers .

If they decide to cut a QB, it should be Willy or Kilalgore

Based on three games played by Kilgore? You've seen enough to determine he has no chance to develop into a good QB? I certainly haven't.

[paulwoods13]

And it was all because of Dan LeF... in the 4th qtr

He had one nice drive and also threw one of the most atrocious interceptions you're ever gonna see. As I've said before, he can be a decent change-of-pace guy because he's mobile, but he isn't a starting QB. He's been in the league for several seasons -- if he was a starting-calibre QB it would have been evident by now. He is a terrible passer, except on occasion when he's rolling out and manages a good throw on the run.

[1971GreyCup]

He had one nice drive and also threw one of the most atrocious interceptions you're ever gonna see. As I've said before, he can be a decent change-of-pace guy because he's mobile, but he isn't a starting QB. He's been in the league for several seasons -- if he was a starting-calibre QB it would have been evident by now. He is a terrible passer, except on occasion when he's rolling out and manages a good throw on the run.

His horrible throw that connected with Brian Jones just before end of the 3rd quarter was just another example that he isn't starter calibre. Brian Jones has been criticized on Twitter over his post catch hot dogging in a 29-0 game, too.

Troy Westwood ‏<s>@</s>TroyWestwood <small class="time"> 19h19 hours ago (https://twitter.com/TroyWestwood/status/787762858260099073) </small>

I don't think that's a rookie thing, I think it's an idiot thing. <s>#</s>Argos (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Argos?src=hash) <s>#</s>CFL (https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFL?src=hash)



https://mobile.twitter.com/TSN_Marsh/status/787419235530186752

[Neely2005]

He had one nice drive and also threw one of the most atrocious interceptions you're ever gonna see. As I've said before, he can be a decent change-of-pace guy because he's mobile, but he isn't a starting QB. He's been in the league for several seasons -- if he was a starting-calibre QB it would have been evident by now. He is a terrible passer, except on occasion when he's rolling out and manages a good throw on the run.

LeFevour is Currently better than any other QB on our roster. (Aside from Ray)

[1971GreyCup]

LeFevour is Currently better than any other QB on our roster. (Aside from Ray)

No argument there. I'd like Cody Fajardo to come back and get a look at him.

[OV Argo]

LeFevour is Currently better than any other QB on our roster. (Aside from Ray)

Yep, easily; and how anyone, let alone employed pro football coaches, view Drew Willy as a starting calibre CFL QB, is questionable to laughable - he has a terrible passing arm, just not good enough; LeFevour has a better arm AND is mobile and can run, and that always can help in CFL ball.

The Bummers made a huge mistake in handing Willy the starting job & big CFL buck$ apparently, but they realized if finally; and found a sucker to take the guy in trade for huge returns. The Argos might be tempted/desperate to let Willy compete in TC next year; maybe for CFL minimum QB wage as a 3rd stringer would be about it; Fajardo & Kilgore might be much better QB talents.

[paulwoods13]

LeFevour does not have a better arm than Willy. That's not praise of Willy, it's criticism of LeFevour. He is a simply terrible thrower. Whether Willy is worth keeping is a separate issue, but there is no way LeFevour will ever develop into a starter.

[paulwoods13]

Brian Jones has been criticized on Twitter over his post catch hot dogging in a 29-0 game, too.

Troy Westwood ‏<s>@</s>TroyWestwood <small class="time"> 19h19 hours ago (https://twitter.com/TroyWestwood/status/787762858260099073) </small>

I don't think that's a rookie thing, I think it's an idiot thing. <s>#</s>Argos (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Argos?src=hash) <s>#</s>CFL (https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFL?src=hash)



https://mobile.twitter.com/TSN_Marsh/status/787419235530186752

I wouldn't argue that point. Seriously, posing like a stud in a game where you are down by 20-plus points? I really like Jones and expect him to develop into an excellent receiver for us, but that was just stupid.

[1971GreyCup]

LeFevour does not have a better arm than Willy. That's not praise of Willy, it's criticism of LeFevour. He is a simply terrible thrower. Whether Willy is worth keeping is a separate issue, but there is no way LeFevour will ever develop into a starter.

I remember a gentleman named Tom Wilkinson being criticized for a weak arm. I do agree that you need seasons to come to sound conclusions with QBs.

I am definitely ok with a non conventional QB that can run. Just as long as he brings lots of W's with him!

[paulwoods13]

It's not so much a weak arm as terrible throwing technique. That's correctable but he's 29 and hasn't corrected it in five or six years of pro ball. And obviously Wilkinson had many positive intangibles.

[doubleblue]

His horrible throw that connected with Brian Jones just before end of the 3rd quarter was just another example that he isn't starter calibre. Brian Jones has been criticized on Twitter over his post catch hot dogging in a 29-0 game, too.

Troy Westwood ‏<s>@</s>TroyWestwood <small class="time">19h19 hours ago (https://twitter.com/TroyWestwood/status/787762858260099073)</small>

I don't think that's a rookie thing, I think it's an idiot thing. <s>#</s>Argos (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Argos?src=hash) <s>#</s>CFL (https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFL?src=hash)



https://mobile.twitter.com/TSN_Marsh/status/787419235530186752

The thing with Brian Jones hot dogging it after his catch crossed my mind as well. Some veteran players might not like that, and there are different ways of, shall we say, getting their point across.

[Shatto]

Being old enough to have seen Wilkinson play, I can confirm that he was short, a bit on the chubby side and with only an average arm. However he had one intangible quality --he more than often found a way to win, if not with his arm or legs, then with his brain. Willy looks very good in practice but he has an awkward throwing action and a slow release. Add to that his immobility and poor decision making and what we have is an ineffective QB.
There appears to be some controversy around Ray staring in Calgary. The post game show folks, discussed who was the best QB on the roster and all strongly agreed it was Ray. I suspect their football I Q is a lot higher than mine so perhaps it is the right decision at this time. If he can stay healthy( big if) maybe he is next year's QB. Only time will tell.

[1971GreyCup]

Being old enough to have seen Wilkinson play, I can confirm that he was short, a bit on the chubby side and with only an average arm. However he had one intangible quality --he more than often found a way to win, if not with his arm or legs, then with his brain. Willy looks very good in practice but he has an awkward throwing action and a slow release. Add to that his immobility and poor decision making and what we have is an ineffective QB.
There appears to be some controversy around Ray staring in Calgary. The post game show folks, discussed who was the best QB on the roster and all strongly agreed it was Ray. I suspect their football I Q is a lot higher than mine so perhaps it is the right decision at this time. If he can stay healthy( big if) maybe he is next year's QB. Only time will tell.

Shatto, I still remember the Wally Gabler/Wilkie debate. Bassett just didn't think Wilkie looked like a QB and sent him West. At the same time everyone questioned Wally's confidence, but he sure looked like a QB.

I think it's an age-old argument between the tall, quintessential practice QB with a rocket for an arm and the QB who gets it done in games. Just down the road in Buffalo, they sat Flutie who was having a great season because Rob Johnson was the future.

I don't think there is a controversy here, other than SM being SM. He had made his bed with Willy and was going to stick with him. If Ricky starts on Friday and can finish two games and retires, we are looking at starting fresh in 2017. Like when JB totally cleaned QB house after his 2010-11 HC reign (Cleo Lemon). Hmmm, maybe this is JBs MO.

It was only in 2003, Billy Beane's (and Michael Lewis) book "Moneyball" debunked baseball's convention that you drafted ballplayers that look like ballplayers. After that, successful teams started to use statistics to overrun that prejudice.

[OV Argo]

LeFevour does not have a better arm than Willy. That's not praise of Willy, it's criticism of LeFevour. He is a simply terrible thrower. Whether Willy is worth keeping is a separate issue, but there is no way LeFevour will ever develop into a starter.


You're entitled to your opinion there, but are quite wrong. Willy has a "terrible" passing arm; and it's not to do with arm strength which is OK to decent with him; he is just clearly wayyyyyy too inaccurate at throws of any more than 10 yards: way off target often on deep balls, constantly under or over throwing open receivers, and no clue about putting some touch on passes either; and often bad decision making, except for maybe taking Scotty's preferred check-downs at times. Simply horrid.

LeFevour has no gun for an arm but at least can make some deep throws and is just not as wildly inaccurate as Willy is.

Neither is a good enough pure passing CFL 1st string QB; but at least LeFevour brings some mobilty and running threat skills to the table; a smart offensive coaching staff might know how to game plan for that type of QB - happened lots in CFL history. Game planning is right out the window with this Argo offensive "brain-trust" though as they are totally clueless and stuck with their wimpleton 6 yard horizontal pattern & check down offence with no real ground game to go with it.

This Argo team will continue to be useless on offence IMO, as long as Millanovich & Brady have anything to do with it.

[Argo]

LeFevour does not have a better arm than Willy. That's not praise of Willy, it's criticism of LeFevour. He is a simply terrible thrower. Whether Willy is worth keeping is a separate issue, but there is no way LeFevour will ever develop into a starter.

True, DW's arm is better than DL's. However, LeFevour's arm is several orders of magnitude better than the B & M trade for DW.

[Fan Since 70]

I agree with you that we should go with Dan LeF...., he should have remained the starter, never should have traded for Willy and never should have cut all our receivers .

If they decide to cut a QB, it should be Willy or Kilalgore

Well said! I know Lefevour is not a bonafide starter but I like his attitude and mobility. There were bigger problems with team than just QB!

[Argo]

Having watched online a fair portion of this game, I have one very definite conclusion that I cannot keep to myself: Rod Black is astonishingly irritating.

Oh, CFL, what did you do in a past life to merit this defilement?