November 5, 2016: Toronto Argonauts @ Edmonton Eskimos

[Will]

The season ends (mercifully) at Commonwealth Stadium.

I've started the game thread early before GreyDragon starts it because I don't think the Argos have won since he started doing them.

[Wobbler]

Kinda early to sticky this, isn't it?

[Will]

Doesn't matter either way really.

[R.J]

Even if Edmonton rests a bunch of their starters, I still think this could be a tough game. I wonder if Milanovich starts Ray yet again ?

[argotom]

Even if Edmonton rests a bunch of their starters, I still think this could be a tough game. I wonder if Milanovich starts Ray yet again ?


Milanovich starting Ray, wow that's a no brainer.
Hopefully it's the last game for both as Argos.

[AngeloV]

Milanovich starting Ray, wow that's a no brainer.
Hopefully it's the last game for both as Argos.

Yeah, Maybe Collaros or Harris will be back next year, because clearly their teams have been better with the other guys starting.

[1971GreyCup]

Yeah, Maybe Collaros or Harris will be back next year, because clearly their teams have been better with the other guys starting.

I'll take either, or preferably both!

[Argo]

Yeah, Maybe Collaros or Harris will be back next year, because clearly their teams have been better with the other guys starting.

I'd like to see Ray return as backup.

I haven't completely given up on Harris, but he has had a couple of opportunities to do what great QBs do - win crucial games (most dramatically, of course, with time running out) - and he hasn't performed. He's no longer a young QB either.

[AngeloV]

I'd like to see Ray return as backup.

I haven't completely given up on Harris, but he has had a couple of opportunities to do what great QBs do - win crucial games (most dramatically, of course, with time running out) - and he hasn't performed. He's no longer a young QB either.

That's the point I made all year about Harris. Some seem to think he's a blue chip prospect. How many 30 year olds are considered to still be prospects? I actually like Harris, but think many on here highly overrated him.

[Will]

Can we really blame people for being frustrated though? At this stage and whatever his flaws, Harris is much, much better than whoever is on the roster save maybe #15.

[AngeloV]

Can we really blame people for being frustrated though? At this stage and whatever his flaws, Harris is much, much better than whoever is on the roster save maybe #15.

I get that, but as Paul pointed out, the Argos did try and sign Harris last year prior to Ray's return. He CHOSE not to sign. IMO, it had nothing to do with bringing back Ray.

[Will]

I get that, but as Paul pointed out, the Argos did try and sign Harris last year prior to Ray's return. He CHOSE not to sign. IMO, it had nothing to do with bringing back Ray.

Yeah, but you also know that from some people here (and whether you can extrapolate that) that they don't buy Barker's side of the story. So they'll continue to be frustrated.

[R.J]

Yeah, but you also know that from some people here (and whether you can extrapolate that) that they don't buy Barker's side of the story. So they'll continue to be frustrated.
I don't buy Barker's story. IIRc Barker says that Harris would have made more money here, but I also recall Barker saying that he could promise an "open competition", Ottawa was willing to name him the "starter" in 2017. We'll see how that works out now.

[Argo57]

I get that, but as Paul pointed out, the Argos did try and sign Harris last year prior to Ray's return. He CHOSE not to sign. IMO, it had nothing to do with bringing back Ray.

Yes he chose to leave, although his play in the second half of 2015 paled in comparison to the first half I figured he was gone when Milanovich started a borderline healthy Ray in the ESF last season.
Personally couldn't blame the guy for giving the big 🖕 to Milanovich over that move.

[PullTogether73]

I've started the game thread early before GreyDragon starts it because I don't think the Argos have won since he started doing them.

Nope, I'm done starting game threads.
My (pitiful) record speaks for itself.
:cry:

[argotom]

I get that, but as Paul pointed out, the Argos did try and sign Harris last year prior to Ray's return. He CHOSE not to sign. IMO, it had nothing to do with bringing back Ray.


That's not true.
The die was cast when Milanovich benched him in favour of his buddy during the payoff game.
There was no way he was coming back with Ray either listed as number one or being shown as number one on the depth chart.
Who even knows whether he would have come back and signed had the team cut Ray?

[Will]

Whether or not you believe Barker, I do not believe there is anything definitive out there which makes both positions speculation.

[R.J]

Anyone else hoping to see Sackey and Campbell get the starts ?

[gilthethrill]

Anyone else hoping to see Sackey and Campbell get the starts ?

That's a tough one. I would think that if Ray starts, you don't want to risk him getting hurt behind an inexperienced line. I want to see them play, but I would lean towards waiting until next season.

[AngeloV]

That's not true.
The die was cast when Milanovich benched him in favour of his buddy during the payoff game.
There was no way he was coming back with Ray either listed as number one or being shown as number one on the depth chart.
Who even knows whether he would have come back and signed had the team cut Ray?

No, that's your interpretation. Harris hasn't denied what Barker has claimed, so I'll have to believe Barker until evidence of the contrary comes out.

[AngeloV]

Anyone else hoping to see Sackey and Campbell get the starts ?

I would have no problem with it, but as gilthethrill points out, hopefully Ray is sat out if they do.

[R.J]

I would have no problem with it, but as gilthethrill points out, hopefully Ray is sat out if they do.
Ray gets injured even without rookies on the offensive line, so I don't see the issue there. And not like our offensive line is that great without the kids, may as well give 'em a shot in a nothing game.

[doubleblue]

Anyone else hoping to see Sackey and Campbell get the starts ?

Milanovich seems quite reluctant to give either one of these guys any playing time yet. Maybe they will turn out to be long time CFL starters who knows. What I do know is that seven offensive linemen were chosen fairly early in the 2016 draft and Barker could have picked one of them. St. John went to Saskatchewan and Vaillancourt to BC and Gagnon to Montreal. The thinking was that Barker would take Lauzon-Seguin, who some thought might be the best OLineman in the draft and has played well with Ottawa. Revenberg was also available and has played a lot with Hamilton. Later picks Couture and Grozman have also seen some playing time. I hope Barker didn't out smart himself passing on Lauzon-Seguin who looks like he will be a long time starter in Ottawa. Jones may turn out to be a difference maker at WR or just another good Canadian receiver. But Canadian Offensive Linemen are Gold in the CFL and last year a good one was staring the Argos right in the face and they passed thinking they had a find in Sackey who was below the radar of most deep thinkers. All I have to go on is watching Sackey and Campbell in warm up when they are in uniform so it is difficult to tell who will have what it takes when they finally get some playing time. Just watching them in warm up Campbell looks like he might turn out to be the best, but they are so raw and inexperienced it could be a while. IMO they should have taken the guy who just about every scout thought was ready to play (Lauzon-Seguin) and left Sackey or Campbell to a later round. That's where you take a player with potential that needs a lot of grooming.

[Argo57]

Milanovich seems quite reluctant to give either one of these guys any playing time yet. Maybe they will turn out to be long time CFL starters who knows. What I do know is that seven offensive linemen were chosen fairly early in the 2016 draft and Barker could have picked one of them. St. John went to Saskatchewan and Vaillancourt to BC and Gagnon to Montreal. The thinking was that Barker would take Lauzon-Seguin, who some thought might be the best OLineman in the draft and has played well with Ottawa. Revenberg was also available and has played a lot with Hamilton. Later picks Couture and Grozman have also seen some playing time. I hope Barker didn't out smart himself passing on Lauzon-Seguin who looks like he will be a long time starter in Ottawa. Jones may turn out to be a difference maker at WR or just another good Canadian receiver. But Canadian Offensive Linemen are Gold in the CFL and last year a good one was staring the Argos right in the face and they passed thinking they had a find in Sackey who was below the radar of most deep thinkers. All I have to go on is watching Sackey and Campbell in warm up when they are in uniform so it is difficult to tell who will have what it takes when they finally get some playing time. Just watching them in warm up Campbell looks like he might turn out to be the best, but they are so raw and inexperienced it could be a while. IMO they should have taken the guy who just about every scout thought was ready to play (Lauzon-Seguin) and left Sackey or Campbell to a later round. That's where you take a player with potential that needs a lot of grooming.

Argos draft strategy in 2016 was interesting.
The O-Line has been ordinary at best for a while and I thought they would have taken more proven O-Linemen earlier considering keeping your only proven QB healthy was a must.
I'm no draft expert but common sense would dictate filling needs with proven college talent with the early round picks and drafting "projects" and or guys that may try the NFL first with some later picks.

[Will]

Argos draft strategy in 2016 was interesting.
The O-Line has been ordinary at best for a while and I thought they would have taken more proven O-Linemen earlier considering keeping your only proven QB healthy was a must.
I'm no draft expert but common sense would dictate filling needs with proven college talent with the early round picks and drafting "projects" and or guys that may try the NFL first with some later picks.

Perhaps Barker was turned off from that strategy by the results of drafting both Joe Eppele and Matt Sewell both of whom did not amount to much in Argo uniforms?

[OV Argo]

Perhaps Barker was turned off from that strategy by the results of drafting both Joe Eppele and Matt Sewell both of whom did not amount to much in Argo uniforms?


Cept that Eppele was hardly a proven college ball performer - played on a Div I team but didn't start much; Sewell was a CIS all-star at OT and has massive size - but might be one of those star college ball players who can't cut in the pros; and his CFL playing time opportunity was quite limited: one start against the best DE (Chick) in the league and he doesn't have a good game and then gets written-off forever? = Canadians playing at OT might get graded more harshly by some "scouts". We'll see if Sackey or Campbell get much playing time at OT - maybe better suited as guard projects?

[Will]

Eppele did show promise, but ran into injuries which cut his career short.

As for Sewell, whether or not he received a legitimate chance is irrelevant to my point. It is clear that Jim Barker and Scott Milanovich decided that he wasn't developing the way they expected, and thus the fact that the two 1st round OL didn't pan out may have altered their thinking. Not condemning or condoning that strategy, merely speculating on what Barker and Milanovich's mindset may have been at the time of the 2016 draft.

[OV Argo]

Argos draft strategy in 2016 was interesting.
The O-Line has been ordinary at best for a while and I thought they would have taken more proven O-Linemen earlier considering keeping your only proven QB healthy was a must.
I'm no draft expert but common sense would dictate filling needs with proven college talent with the early round picks and drafting "projects" and or guys that may try the NFL first with some later picks.


You can always count on the CFL draft for some surprise or iffy or questionable to even laughable picks.

NFL flight risk guys (larger group lately) aside, you would think the "project" type - haven\t played or proven much in college ball - would be mostly later round picks, but you often see them getting picked early. Classic CFL lack of drafting finesse IMO: identifying an un-heralded guy as this great prospect and using an early round pick on him when he could have been taken much later and you instead use the earlier pick on a much more proven player. Sackey may have been that type of pick this past draft ? - Barker could have instead picked the likes of Taylor Loffler or Mercer Timmis or kicker Van Glswyk; and i would have bet Sackey would still have been on the board 4th round or later - but who knows with CFL draft thinking ?

Barker could have used the 1st rounder last draft on a top rated, proven college ball O-lineman, but he chose a receiver instead; at least Jones was a proven college ball receiver, plus had some outstanding measureables, AND he plays at a large position group where Canadians get a shot to play in the CFL. More O-line spots for NIs in the rad CFL, but the Argos already had McEwen in their pocket as a recent O-line top draft pick.

[ArgoGabe22]

Classic CFL lack of drafting finesse IMO: identifying an un-heralded guy as this great prospect and using an early round pick on him when he could have been taken much later and you instead use the earlier pick on a much more proven player. Sackey may have been that type of pick this past draft ? - Barker could have instead picked the likes of Taylor Loffler or Mercer Timmis or kicker Van Glswyk; and i would have bet Sackey would still have been on the board 4th round or later - but who knows with CFL draft thinking ?

For what its worth, when they drafted Sackey, another coach texted Milanovich "Fcuk you". I guess they beat out another team interested in him.

[OV Argo]

For what its worth, when they drafted Sackey, another coach texted Milanovich "Fcuk you". I guess they beat out another team interested in him.


Yes - they showed that on TV coverage of the draft; proves zip-o to me other than interesting to hear some gob fun smack-talk; another CFL team coming out - in public, by name - and saying they would have picked Sackey early if not for Barker - that would have shown he was considered a top prospect by another team; he didn't even get invited to the main CFL Combine - maybe says something.

[R.J]

For what its worth, when they drafted Sackey, another coach texted Milanovich "Fcuk you". I guess they beat out another team interested in him.
Yeah, I recall that in Hogan's inside the draft piece. Even if another team wanted him, would they have used a 2nd or 3rd selection on him ?

[Will]

I think the general consensus from 2015 was that the offensive line played well initially, but fell apart as the season wore on with the RG and RT positions being particular areas of struggle. Jim Barker (mistakenly) theorized that:

(i) The signing of Bourke would stabilize the entire offensive line; and
(ii) Van Zeyl's struggles in 2015 were not a result in age catching up to him.

Neither scenario came to fruition and I suppose that Barker was (i) turned off by 1st round OL like Sewell and Eppele and (ii) figured that the current group could hold it together for a few years until Sackey and Campbell were ready.

[R.J]

Like Don Argo, I think Eppele showed some promise, but injuries did him in. As for Sewell, he didn't progress at all IMO, looked lost out there during his preseason shots.

[ArgoGabe22]

I think it's evident that Sewell wasn't too fond of playing pro football for whatever reason. He specifically told teams at the combine he will only play for either Toronto or Hamilton. Then at Titans camp, he asked for his release. And of course, we're all aware that he retired after being traded to Saskatchewan. This begs the question just how committed he was. Every player is different but for comparison sake, you have players like Gabriel who decided to move away from home to play junior football in Calgary with little to no financial means, while Sewell refuses to play in Regina. A lot of players would kill for an opportunity like that.

[ArgoRavi]

Yes - they showed that on TV coverage of the draft; proves zip-o to me other than interesting to hear some gob fun smack-talk; another CFL team coming out - in public, by name - and saying they would have picked Sackey early if not for Barker - that would have shown he was considered a top prospect by another team; he didn't even get invited to the main CFL Combine - maybe says something.

The Argos, like every other team in the league, run mock drafts before the actual draft. They have a good idea which other teams are interested in the same players that they are.

[Argo57]

I think it's evident that Sewell wasn't too fond of playing pro football for whatever reason. He specifically told teams at the combine he will only play for either Toronto or Hamilton. Then at Titans camp, he asked for his release. And of course, we're all aware that he retired after being traded to Saskatchewan. This begs the question just how committed he was. Every player is different but for comparison sake, you have players like Gabriel who decided to move away from home to play junior football in Calgary with little to no financial means, while Sewell refuses to play in Regina. A lot of players would kill for an opportunity like that.

Sewell also took an extra year and got his MBA at Mac, good on the guy for sticking to his plan and taking care of his education.

[Argo57]

For what its worth, when they drafted Sackey, another coach texted Milanovich "Fcuk you". I guess they beat out another team interested in him.

I heard Milanovich's cell phone battery died before the rest of the message was received "guys are morons"

[OV Argo]

The Argos, like every other team in the league, run mock drafts before the actual draft. They have a good idea which other teams are interested in the same players that they are.


??? - I have no idea what that is supposed to mean Ravi ? - the Argos are given mock drafts by other teams in the league and that is supposed to be meaningful information ?

[ArgoRavi]

??? - I have no idea what that is supposed to mean Ravi ? - the Argos are given mock drafts by other teams in the league and that is supposed to be meaningful information ?

The Argos run a mock draft just like all other CFL teams do. In other words, they essentially simulate how they think the draft will go before it happens based on the information they have not only on their own team but the other CFL teams.

[Ron]

Funny. After that first Lefever game everyone forgot Harris existed. Now people are back to whining about him.

[Will]

I think it's evident that Sewell wasn't too fond of playing pro football for whatever reason. He specifically told teams at the combine he will only play for either Toronto or Hamilton. Then at Titans camp, he asked for his release. And of course, we're all aware that he retired after being traded to Saskatchewan. This begs the question just how committed he was. Every player is different but for comparison sake, you have players like Gabriel who decided to move away from home to play junior football in Calgary with little to no financial means, while Sewell refuses to play in Regina. A lot of players would kill for an opportunity like that.

I believe Sewell completed his MBA at McMaster and probably saw that his opportunities might be greater than playing football? Remember that Jason Pottinger retired concurrently with completing his MBA at Schulich although he was a CFL veteran.

[paulwoods13]

No doubt Sewell can make more money and have a longer career outside of football. The difference between him and Pottinger is that Sewell's heart never seemed in the game. Watching him on the sidelines during pre-season, he seemed to make no effort to be part of the o-line brigade. Just seemed to have his head elsewhere.

[Will]

No doubt Sewell can make more money and have a longer career outside of football. The difference between him and Pottinger is that Sewell's heart never seemed in the game. Watching him on the sidelines during pre-season, he seemed to make no effort to be part of the o-line brigade. Just seemed to have his head elsewhere.

I don't disagree.

[R.J]

Live mic game, and Maas is none too happy about it.
http://www.esks.com/2016/11/01/day1_maas/

[doubleblue]

Live mic game, and Maas is none too happy about it.
http://www.esks.com/2016/11/01/day1_maas/

Hey there's just playing the Argos in a nothing game. Let Mike or whoever call their own plays. Go vanilla. Use sign language. Give the hand off sign for a running play and passing motion to throw the ball. How hard is that Jason. lol

[Wobbler]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Argos?src=hash">#Argos</a> depth chart for Saturday&#39;s season finale in Edmonton.<br><br>OUT &gt; Sweeting (#35, DB)<br>IN &gt; McFadden (#36, LB) <a href="https://t.co/bxnAKTa6E2">pic.twitter.com/bxnAKTa6E2</a></p>&mdash; Toronto Argonauts PR (@Argonauts_PR) <a href="https://twitter.com/Argonauts_PR/status/794555099049840641">November 4, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Pretty much the same group as last time.

[R.J]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Depth Chart day! Heres how the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Esks?src=hash">#Esks</a> will line up for their regular season finale. <a href="https://t.co/EJQvaWAOPF">pic.twitter.com/EJQvaWAOPF</a></p>&mdash; Edmonton Eskimos (@EdmontonEsks) <a href="https://twitter.com/EdmontonEsks/status/794555676139745281">November 4, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Is Ray only starting to get his 200th ? Because I really don't see a point to him playing anymore.

[PullTogether73]

Probably.

But don't discount the very real possibility that Ray is the starting QB next season either.

[R.J]

Probably.

But don't discount the very real possibility that Ray is the starting QB next season either.
If Milanovich is back next season, it wouldn't surprise me, his bromance with Ray knows no bounds.

[AngeloV]

If Milanovich is back next season, it wouldn't surprise me, his bromance with Ray knows no bounds.

Go Ricky Go!!!

[Scooter McCray]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Depth Chart day! Heres how the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Esks?src=hash">#Esks</a> will line up for their regular season finale. <a href="https://t.co/EJQvaWAOPF">pic.twitter.com/EJQvaWAOPF</a></p>&mdash; Edmonton Eskimos (@EdmontonEsks) <a href="https://twitter.com/EdmontonEsks/status/794555676139745281">November 4, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Is Ray only starting to get his 200th ? Because I really don't see a point to him playing anymore.I think we have seen enough of Willy Kilgore and Lefevour. Unless Fajardo is good to go I'd rather see the Argos end with a win and play Ray. Despite zero mobility and less arm strength he is still light years ahead of everyone else on the roster.

[R.J]

Go Ricky Go!!!
Come on Angelo, even you've admitted that Ray is done. Why put him out there tomorrow or even next season ? Odds are we know what'll happen.

I think we have seen enough of Willy Kilgore and Lefevour. Unless Fajardo is good to go I'd rather see the Argos end with a win and play Ray. Despite zero mobility and less arm strength he is still light years ahead of everyone else on the roster.
This is the perfect game to start Kilgore IMO. Nothing game that could help Kilgore regain his confidence. If he falters, put in Lefevour for a change of pace. Ray is better than the current group, but that's nothing to be proud of IMO.

[Antwon]

Come on Angelo, even you've admitted that Ray is done. Why put him out there tomorrow or even next season ? Odds are we know what'll happen.

This is the perfect game to start Kilgore IMO. Nothing game that could help Kilgore regain his confidence. If he falters, put in Lefevour for a change of pace. Ray is better than the current group, but that's nothing to be proud of IMO.

I agree starting Ray makes no sense. Let's see where Kilgore is. But I've completely given up of SM's coaching decisions!!!!

[Will]

I agree starting Ray makes no sense. Let's see where Kilgore is. But I've completely given up of SM's coaching decisions!!!!

Such that they matter at this late juncture.

[R.J]

Such that they matter at this late juncture.
It does if he's back next season.

[Will]

It does if he's back next season.

I'm going with happy thoughts of he's not :)

[R.J]

I agree starting Ray makes no sense. Let's see where Kilgore is. But I've completely given up of SM's coaching decisions!!!!
If it does end up being Ricky's last game then I get it if he's only starting and playing 1 quarter, but at the same time I think we need to see if Kilgore has learned from his previous run. If Fajardo was healthy, I would've just played him and Kilgore.

[Wobbler]

I'd like to see us win this game and I think Ray gives us the best chance to do that.

Seems like a good call to me.

[doubleblue]

I'm still in favour of bringing Ricky back next season. I believe he is on a basic salary of $200 to $250,000 plus time played now. Of course now that Drew Willy is on the books for the (rumoured) $450,000 that could be difficult. I still can't believe Barker made that trade. But maybe they can renegotiate Willy's contract down to something more in line with Ricky's. A base salary plus time played. That would give them two veteran QB's for the price of one good one and keep bringing the young guys (Fajardo and Kilgore) along as 3rd stringers. I don't know how appealing that would sound to ST holders but veteran QB's don't grow on trees. They really backed themselves into a corner not keeping one of the two "futures" which of course has been well written about.

[AngeloV]

I'm still in favour of bringing Ricky back next season. I believe he is on a basic salary of $200 to $250,000 plus time played now. Of course now that Drew Willy is on the books for the (rumoured) $450,000 that could be difficult. I still can't believe Barker made that trade. But maybe they can renegotiate Willy's contract down to something more in line with Ricky's. A base salary plus time played. That would give them two veteran QB's for the price of one good one and keep bringing the young guys (Fajardo and Kilgore) along as 3rd stringers. I don't know how appealing that would sound to ST holders but veteran QB's don't grow on trees. They really backed themselves into a corner not keeping one of the two "futures" which of course has been well written about.

I would have no problem with bringing Ray back, but and I can't believe I'm saying this, they would need to change the offence and go with a bigger back a la Messam with a much higher run ratio. It would slow down the blitz and give more of a play action ability. I love the Milo style offence (and I know I may be alone there), but I'm now more convinced that you need either a mobile QB or one with a Danny Mac like quick release to run it.

[doubleblue]

I would have no problem with bringing Ray back, but and I can't believe I'm saying this, they would need to change the offence and go with a bigger back a la Messam with a much higher run ratio. It would slow down the blitz and give more of a play action ability. I love the Milo style offence (and I know I may be alone there), but I'm now more convinced that you need either a mobile QB or one with a Danny Mac like quick release to run it.

I don't think you are alone. I like the idea of a mobile QB, but you have to go with what you have. So I agree that with a tantrum of Ricky and Drew, a big back like Messam is a must with a good offensive line of course.

[AngeloV]

I don't think you are alone. I like the idea of a mobile QB, but you have to go with what you have. So I agree that with a tantrum of Ricky and Drew, a big back like Messam is a must with a good offensive line of course.

A back like Messam would make the O-line look way better. It would give them more opportunity to block down hill. And remember, I'm the type of guy that prefers to see the ball in the air 50 times, but with an older QB like Ray, a similar style to what Matt Nichols is running would be more suitable.

[Stevoman]

Argos are going to win today!

[Argo]

Argos are going to win today!

It's a nothing game for Edmonton, so the Argos at least have some chance.

[Neely2005]

Well I think that it's safe to say that Ray is still the best QB on our roster. And IMO it's not even close.

[jerrym]

Whitaker looked good on the drive for a TD. However, considering his age and size, I also think the Argos need a bigger younger RB.

[jerrym]

The season has been horrible enough. Why do I have to listen to Rod Black in the final game?

[jerrym]

The quick Eskimo TD following the Argo score symbolizes the Argos' greatest weakness this season: a sieve of a defence.

[R.J]

So, I think it's pretty clear so far that it's Brady calling the plays not Milo.

[Neely2005]

The quick Eskimo TD following the Argo score symbolizes the Argos' greatest weakness this season: a sieve of a defence.

Well Edmonton did start with pretty good field position thanks to that kick.

[jerrym]

The Argo O-Line (like the D-Line) needs a major upgrade. This involves a major rebuild that is unlikely to be complete next season. Keeping a non-mobile QB (a la Ray or Willy no matter how great) without a top-rank O-line is only going to invite to end in QB injury or frustration. The Argos need a more mobile QB (along with everything else).

[R.J]

Franklin looking pretty good out there.

Stubler's defence struggling yet again.

[Argo57]

Well I think that it's safe to say that Ray is still the best QB on our roster. And IMO it's not even close.

I think your right Neely.

[Argo57]

Franklin looking pretty good out there.

Stubler's defence struggling yet again.

Under no circumstances would I want Stubler back next season.

[ArgoGabe22]

Anyone wanna tell Jason Mass that the jerk store called?

I always believed Brady called the plays. What Mass did was a dick move.

[R.J]

Anyone wanna tell Jason Mass that the jerk store called?

I always believed Brady called the plays. What Mass did was a dick move.
Yeah he really seems paranoid about it, but funny enough coaches always seem to look for and find loopholes that they can take advantage of.

[R.J]

I think your right Neely.
Has anyone ever said that Ray wasn't the best QB on our roster ?

[jerrym]

Once again the Argo defence comes through with another Eskimo TD.

[Argo57]

Anyone wanna tell Jason Mass that the jerk store called?

I always believed Brady called the plays. What Mass did was a dick move.

What happened Gabe?

[R.J]

What happened Gabe?
Maas isn't wearing his headset or calling the.plays. He's wearing the mic, but effectively not really coaching.

[ArgoGabe22]

What happened Gabe?

He's technically wearing a mic but handed all his coaching duties to someone else. Maas isn't speaking. All Franklin says is Alpha!

[Argo57]

Has anyone ever said that Ray wasn't the best QB on our roster ?

Don't know?
Ray's only issue has been injuries, when he plays he's still effective.

[Argo57]

He's technically wearing a mic but handed all his coaching duties to someone else. Maas isn't speaking. All Franklin says is Alpha!

I see, I'm sure the league won't be pleased.

[R.J]

Don't know?
Ray's only issue has been injuries, when he plays he's still effective.
Effectively, but not the Ray of old IMO.

[Argo57]

Fire Younger as well!!

[R.J]

Well this game is over.

[jerrym]

Well I think that it's safe to say that Ray is still the best QB on our roster. And IMO it's not even close.

Ray is still our best QB and one of the league's better passers; I just don't think he can remain healthy very long unless protected by a superior OL, which we clearly do not have now. In addition, his long absences leave him having to spend at least several games to return to his old form. Its time to move on at the QB position. Not doing it for next season is simply delaying the rebuild process that the team will have to go through very shortly.

[R.J]

Fire Younger as well!!
Hell yes.

[jerrym]

The Argo defence (sieve) strikes again with another Eskimo TD.

[Argo57]

Effectively, but not the Ray of old IMO.

Age and injuries will do that, he is still their best QB.

[ArgoZ]

Anyone wanna tell Jason Mass that the jerk store called?

I always believed Brady called the plays. What Mass did was a dick move.

Funny, actually. Got to give him some probs for sticking to his guns and effectively, outsmarting the CFL. I bet his players are supportive and think he's even more of a leader by "sticking it to the man". Wish we had a coach with balls like that here in Toronto, to be honest.

[Stevoman]

And James Franklin should be our next starting QB.

[R.J]

Age and injuries will do that, he is still their best QB.
No doubt. As the saying goes: "Father time is undefeated."

[jerrym]

IMO, the cutting of four receivers at once, whatever one thinks of them individually, was indicative of a morale problem that has become more evident as the season wore on. When you get rid of four players of the same type at once in midseason, the problems are much deeper than their skill level. Their seems to be little passion left in the Argos' game effort.

[Argo57]

Ray is still our best QB and one of the league's better passers; I just don't think he can remain healthy very long unless protected by a superior OL, which we clearly do not have now. In addition, his long absences leave him having to spend at least several games to return to his old form. Its time to move on at the QB position. Not doing it for next season is simply delaying the rebuild process that the team will have to go through very shortly.

TBH would like Ray back in any roll, backup QB or QB coach, I think his experience and demeaner would continue to serve the organization well.

[R.J]

Berry's struggling out there.

[Argo57]

No doubt. As the saying goes: "Father time is undefeated."

Speak for yourself buddy, I'm 51 and still run the 40 in 30 seconds!!

[jerrym]

Argo D watches another Eskimo TD.

[R.J]

Franklin's a free agent, undoubtedly will be a hot commodity.

[Argo57]

Nothing like a game against the Argo D to build a young QB's confidence

[Neely2005]

Franklin looking pretty good out there.

Stubler's defence struggling yet again.

Is it Stubler or the personnel though?

[Neely2005]

So is the pick that we traded away going to end up being first overall?

[Argo57]

Franklin's a free agent, undoubtedly will be a hot commodity.

I'll pass he's no Drew Willy😂

[R.J]

Speak for yourself buddy, I'm 51 and still run the 40 in 30 seconds!!
I'm 29, and I've noticed that I feel bumps and bruises alot more than I used to.

[jerrym]

TBH would like Ray back in any roll, backup QB or QB coach, I think his experience and demeaner would continue to serve the organization well.

I think with his steady temperament, intelligence and game knowledge he would make an excellent coach, but it's time to start looking elsewhere at QB.

[paulwoods13]

I don't know what's more irritating, our defence or TSN's inability to broadcast a game without technical problems. Give us a live mic game and then have the announcers' mics cut out and repeat constantly. It's hard enough to listen to Rod Black when his mic is working. This is beyond tolerable.

[jerrym]

I'm 29, and I've noticed that I feel bumps and bruises alot more than I used to.

You haven't felt anything yet!

[ArgoZ]

I think with his steady temperament, intelligence and game knowledge he would make an excellent coach, but it's time to start looking elsewhere at QB.

Would he want or would we want him to coach the Argonauts?

[Argo57]

Is it Stubler or the personnel though?

Probably both, but the talent in the secondary has been substandard since 2013, that's on Barker.

[jerrym]

The game is on continuous replay. Oh! It's just another Eskimo TD!

[Bleeds Double Blue]

Speak for yourself buddy, I'm 51 and still run the 40 in 30 seconds!!

Pfft Argo57, I'm 63 and can run the 40 in 30 seconds. We're talking feet, right?

[R.J]

Probably both, but the talent in the secondary has been substandard since 2013, that's on Barker.
Agreed, it's both IMO. Barker hasn't provided the talent, but it's pretty clear that Stubler hasn't adjusted his defenxe to fit the young players. Jordan Younger is also a big problem IMO.

[paulwoods13]

Would he want or would we want him to coach the Argonauts?

Certainly not head coach. No one other than Pinball can move immediately from player to HC. (And Pinball's success was due in large part to letting his assistants do most of the actual coaching.) Ricky could be a QB coach and work towards becoming a coordinator and eventually a head coach. But I'd still like him back as a backup QB.

[Argo57]

Would he want or would we want him to coach the Argonauts?

Sure, starting as a QB coach for a year or two then work from there.

[Neely2005]

Anyone wanna tell Jason Mass that the jerk store called?

I always believed Brady called the plays. What Mass did was a dick move.

Agreed, I hope that the league fines him again.

[Argo57]

Certainly not head coach. No one other than Pinball can move immediately from player to HC. (And Pinball's success was due in large part to letting his assistants do most of the actual coaching.) Ricky could be a QB coach and work towards becoming a coordinator and eventually a head coach. But I'd still like him back as a backup QB.

My thoughts exactly Paul👍

[Neely2005]

I'll pass he's no Drew Willy😂

Lol, that's probably a good thing.

[Argo57]

Pfft Argo57, I'm 63 and can run the 40 in 30 seconds. We're talking feet, right?

Lol, inches?

[doubleblue]

And James Franklin should be our next starting QB.

I know I have always been high on James Franklin ever since I saw him play last year. It seems like Edmonton has been hiding him all year not giving him some playing time to develop. Even when Edmonton was in Toronto and had the game wrapped up by the third quarter they kept him nailed to the bench. I'd give him the big money in February and than figure out who you could keep as his back up. Hopefully Ray and cut Willy. But politics might get in the way after the big trade. GM and Coaches don't like to be shown up.
Jones in Saskatchewan will be in there bidding as well and might think he has the inside track. The NFL doesn't miss much either and could see Franklin as a future star down there as well.

[ArgoZ]

We got ourselves a game! Ok, not really, but the lead is cut in half. ARRGOOS!

[ArgoGabe22]

Franklin's a free agent, undoubtedly will be a hot commodity.

Hearing he still has one year left.

[Scooter McCray]

Sign Franklin up. Better than our collection of stiffs.

[Argo57]

As bummed as I feel watching this game we might as well enjoy the banter and the last Argo game of the year.
I've always said sometimes the off season can be as interesting as the season which should hold true with the Argos for various reasons!

[jerrym]

Great to see Brian Jones get his first TD. He's been one of the few good things about the Argo season.

[1971GreyCup]

Brian Jones wisely was understated after TD. He's learning.

[Argo57]

Brian Jones wisely was understated after TD. He's learning.

What, no ball spin??

[doubleblue]

Anyone wanna tell Jason Mass that the jerk store called?

I always believed Brady called the plays. What Mass did was a dick move.

Now they are going to fine Maas for not talking. lol I don't think Mathews or Pinball ever the head sets, Wally doesn't either so Jason is having the last laugh here.

[R.J]

Hearing he still has one year left.
That's according to Ed Hervey, but the truth will come out soon enough.

[jerrym]

Certainly not head coach. No one other than Pinball can move immediately from player to HC. (And Pinball's success was due in large part to letting his assistants do most of the actual coaching.) Ricky could be a QB coach and work towards becoming a coordinator and eventually a head coach. But I'd still like him back as a backup QB.
When I said he has the skills to be a good coach, I never meant he should start out as head coach or even offensive coordinator in his first season, but QB coach would be fine IMO.

[Bleeds Double Blue]

Franklin's "Alpha Alpha" seems to have the Argo D completely baffled. It's game 18 and they have no clue of what they are doing out there. After every Edmonton touchdown you can see an Argo defender with his arms out wondering who was supposed to have coverage. Pitiful. And by the way Paul, I think Rod Black's mic cutting out was the highlight of the half.

[ArgoZ]

If Doug Flutie, the man that called his own plays, offered to coach the Argonauts next season, would you accept?

[Bleeds Double Blue]

With this live mic game we just learned that "Bad Toyota" means Cory Greenwood takes your head off.

[jerrym]

Yah, Greenwood really drilled Mitchell.

[jerrym]

Franklin's "Alpha Alpha" seems to have the Argo D completely baffled. It's game 18 and they have no clue of what they are doing out there. After every Edmonton touchdown you can see an Argo defender with his arms out wondering who was supposed to have coverage. Pitiful. And by the way Paul, I think Rod Black's mic cutting out was the highlight of the half.

Stubble's success with defences in the past was largely built on heavily veteran personnel that had a lot of freedom in setting up. It's much more problematic with a relatively inexperienced defence that has not played together much.

[doubleblue]

Brian Jones wisely was understated after TD. He's learning.

Brian Jones is a good player and may have a long career in the League. Still think Barker should have taken Lauzen-Seguin instead (he would be our starting RG now) and who knows he still might have got a crack at Jones at #13. Hamilton may well have taken Jones though to back up Andy Fan but Barker still picked up Noel (who I think will turn into a good receiver) and Campbell as another offensive lineman later as well. Everybody knows (well most people) that good Canadian Linemen are gold in the CFL and IMO Lauzen-Seguin was and is a good one. And then when Barker had a chance to make up for losing out on L-Seguin with the first overall pick this year he trades it away for Drew Willy.

[jerrym]

[QUOTE=doubleblue;101193And then when Barker had a chance to make up for losing out on L-Seguin with the first overall pick this year he trades it away for Drew Willy.[/QUOTE]

It's still sticks in my craw.

[Bleeds Double Blue]

At least we have better looking uniforms. That EE logo on the Eskimo's helmets can be seen from space.

[jerrym]

At least we have better looking uniforms. That EE logo on the Eskimo's helmets can be seen from space.

LOL. :hi:

[jerrym]

I hope the Argos give their other QBs some playing time in a game that has no consequences for them in the standings.

[PullTogether73]

At least we have better looking uniforms. That EE logo on the Eskimo's helmets can be seen from space.

I was listening to the broadcast in the car early in the game as I was out at the time.
I was shocked to hear Mike Hogan state the he thinks that the Eskimos regular jerseys (not the signature ones they are wearing today) are by far the best in the CFL.
????

I respectfully, and vehemently, disagree.
Argonauts uniforms easily are the best in the league.
(I admit that I may be a tiny bit biased.):shhhh:

[Neely2005]

Wow who was blocking there?

[1971GreyCup]

I hope the Argos give their other QBs some playing time in a game that has no consequences for them in the standings.

Good point. It's not like we don't now know what Ricky Ray is capable of as a QB.

[jerrym]

Nice run by Bell, but the lack of intensity by the Argos is evident on the play and the subsequent run by the QB Lynch.

[Neely2005]

Good point. It's not like we don't now know what Ricky Ray is capable of as a QB.

Might be Ray's last game ever though.

[Bleeds Double Blue]

41-17 with 30 seconds left and we call a time out???

[paulwoods13]

They clearly wanted to let Whitaker get another carry. Did he get to 1,000 yards? I doubt it but hope so.

[jerrym]

As with so many games this year, the Argo offence scores very early, often with some divergence on their typical set of plays and then proceeds to play their stereotypical, bland, very predictable offence without any adjustments to the opposition's defence.

[Neely2005]

41-17 with 30 seconds left and we call a time out???

Stop the clock and get Ray one more play?

[ArgoGabe22]

Stop the clock and get Ray one more play?

Get Whitaker to 1000 yards. It was obvious.

[jerrym]

Dungeon called it right today: "The Argos mailed it in."

[Bleeds Double Blue]

My bad. Didn't realize Whitaker had a chance at 1000.

[Argo57]

Dungeon called it right today: "The Argos mailed it in."

In contrast to how Montreal played in Hamilton.

[doubleblue]

Nice run by Bell, but the lack of intensity by the Argos is evident on the play and the subsequent run by the QB Lynch.

Only guys I would want to see back on that defense would be Lemon, Greenwood, Jefferson and Gabriel. The Argos looked like an expansion team most of the year.

[Argo57]

Only guys I would want to see back on that defense would be Lemon, Greenwood, Jefferson and Gabriel. The Argos looked like an expansion team most of the year.

Agree except for Jefferson who underperformed this season, wonder how motivated Greenwood will be to return?

[R.J]

Agree except for Jefferson who underperformed this season, wonder how motivated Greenwood will be to return?
Yeah, Jefferson wouldn't be on my list either, he regressed this season.

Greenwood, Lemon, Gabriel, Miles, Waud, Walker, and Newton - that's it. Admittedly, I don't know enough about the guys on our Pr, so who knows.

[R.J]

So is the pick that we traded away going to end up being first overall?
Yup.

[AngeloV]

Yeah, Jefferson wouldn't be on my list either, he regressed this season.

Greenwood, Lemon, Gabriel, Miles, Waud, Walker, and Newton - that's it. Admittedly, I don't know enough about the guys on our Pr, so who knows.

Jefferson is worth another look. Had a slow start due to camp injury and really who didn't look confused in the secondary this year? I think the system was not the right fit.

[Argo57]

Jefferson is worth another look. Had a slow start due to camp injury and really who didn't look confused in the secondary this year? I think the system was not the right fit.

TJ Heath didn't look confused😛

[R.J]

Jefferson is worth another look. Had a slow start due to camp injury and really who didn't look confused in the secondary this year? I think the system was not the right fit.
Maybe a camp look see, but shouldn't be handed the starters job.

TJ Heath didn't look confused😛
Heath is Ansah 2.0 IMO, gets picks, but gets beat too often.

[Argo57]

Maybe a camp look see, but shouldn't be handed the starters job.

Heath is Ansah 2.0 IMO, gets picks, but gets beat too often.

In contrast to the current Argo DB's who make no picks and get beat often.

[R.J]

In contrast to the current Argo DB's who make no picks and get beat often.
LOL!
True enough. Heath was the best of a bad bunch, and he clearly made plays. I think we can find better, but the secondary hasn't been Barker's strong suit.

[gilthethrill]

Two comments Rod Black made....1st he stated that Argos will miss the playoff parade for the 2nd year in a row...also he said Rays contract will expire and he will be a FA. I thought he was signed for next year? James Franklin looks good when he faces the Argos, but what can he do against a team that can cover? I see Ray as a coach...in Edmonton. Lot closer to his California home, working for a stable franchise. Posey looks good, hope he comes back. Sad to to see Durie being wasted on the sideline. Milanovich said the F word!

How does a team move on after going 1-11 down the stretch? How is it possible to retain the GM and HC? Get sick when ever I think about that damn Drew Willy trade.

[Argo57]

LOL!
True enough. Heath was the best of a bad bunch, and he clearly made plays. I think we can find better, but the secondary hasn't been Barker's strong suit.

Recently watched the 2012 Labour day game on YouTube (I also attended this game), served as a stark reminder how far this team has fallen in talent, execution and chemistry, a far cry from the product presented in 2016.

[Neely2005]

Yup.

Then Barker has to go too.

Restructure Willy's contact or cut him.

[Shatto]

This game was another reason why Milanovich's coaching judgement needs to be questioned. The game meant nothing and was a perfect opportunity to audition new players, who have been on the roster but infrequently played or are on the practice roster. It's great to have both Shaw and Whitaker get 1000 yards but that doesn't help prepare for next year. Whitaker will be 32 next season and coming to the end of his career and Shaw may take a run at the NFL. Some will argue that it was showing loyalty to Whitaker; if that was the case Kachert should have been dressed since he has been loyal to the team for more years than Whitaker, especially since neither are likely to be around next year.

Ray could have played briefly, so he wrap up his career where he began it and then LeFevour or Willy or Kilgore should have played. Talking about QB's, Fajargo can't still be injured, can he? If anyone has any inside info re his injury, I'd love to hear it.

Even against Argo's non-existent D, Franklin performance was truly exceptional. Can anyone argue that Willy shouldn't be cut so the team can offer his contract to Franklin?

It isn't just the 1-11 record in the last 12 games but the way the team has got worse as the season progressed. Making it a complete debacle is the ridiculous trade for Willy. Their best (perhaps on good D back) and THE 1st round draft choice for a non-mobile, slow delivery, poor decision making QB. It's not as if he is young and will likely to improve--he's 30 next year!

Hopefully, major changes will occur because without them, we can only expect a repeat of this year's disaster.

[ArgoRavi]

Is it Stubler or the personnel though?

I like Rich Stubler as much as the next guy but I honestly believe that his system has run its course. I find it hard to believe that none of the many DBs that Jim Barker brought in this year weren't good enough. The problem is that I don't know where the Argos should look next for a defensive coordinator. Maybe they could pry Thorpe out of Montreal.

[ArgoRavi]

They clearly wanted to let Whitaker get another carry. Did he get to 1,000 yards? I doubt it but hope so.

He got to 1009 and a classy move by Milanovich to do everything he could to give Whitaker the chance to do so.

[R.J]

This game was another reason why Milanovich's coaching judgement needs to be questioned. The game meant nothing and was a perfect opportunity to audition new players, who have been on the roster but infrequently played or are on the practice roster. It's great to have both Shaw and Whitaker get 1000 yards but that doesn't help prepare for next year. Whitaker will be 32 next season and coming to the end of his career and Shaw may take a run at the NFL. Some will argue that it was showing loyalty to Whitaker; if that was the case Kachert should have been dressed since he has been loyal to the team for more years than Whitaker, especially since neither are likely to be around next year.

Ray could have played briefly, so he wrap up his career where he began it and then LeFevour or Willy or Kilgore should have played. Talking about QB's, Fajargo can't still be injured, can he? If anyone has any inside info re his injury, I'd love to hear it.

Even against Argo's non-existent D, Franklin performance was truly exceptional. Can anyone argue that Willy shouldn't be cut so the team can offer his contract to Franklin?

It isn't just the 1-11 record in the last 12 games but the way the team has got worse as the season progressed. Making it a complete debacle is the ridiculous trade for Willy. Their best (perhaps on good D back) and THE 1st round draft choice for a non-mobile, slow delivery, poor decision making QB. It's not as if he is young and will likely to improve--he's 30 next year!

Hopefully, major changes will occur because without them, we can only expect a repeat of this year's disaster.
TBH, when Ray continued to play in the second half I got the feeling that he's already told the team that he'll be retiring, I can't think of another reason why Milanovich would keep him out there.

As for Willy: I still for the life of me can't understand why the trade was made. I've looked at it from every angle, and it still makes no sense.

[Shatto]

I respect the view that Milanovich acted in a classy manner by playing Whitaker so he could get his 1000 yards but he is not being paid to be nice or classy. He is being paid to create a winning team. By not auditioning new players after the team was officially out of the playoffs, he is doing a disservice to next year's team. He should be making decisions that are in the best interest for next year's team not this year's.

If you have ever been in the situation of having to terminate someone, you know how difficult that is but sometimes one must act in the best interests of the organization. The best interest of this team would have been playing individuals, who need to be played, to determine who might help next year. I'm sure that Whitaker, who according to all reports, is a very classy individual himself, would have understood that.

I realize this view, sounds hard hearted and cold but difficult decisions are going to have to be made, if this team has any chance of improving.

This is only my view and I fully respect those who think differently.

[OV Argo]

Brian Jones is a good player and may have a long career in the League. Still think Barker should have taken Lauzen-Seguin instead (he would be our starting RG now) and who knows he still might have got a crack at Jones at #13. Hamilton may well have taken Jones though to back up Andy Fan but Barker still picked up Noel (who I think will turn into a good receiver) and Campbell as another offensive lineman later as well. Everybody knows (well most people) that good Canadian Linemen are gold in the CFL and IMO Lauzen-Seguin was and is a good one. And then when Barker had a chance to make up for losing out on L-Seguin with the first overall pick this year he trades it away for Drew Willy.


Very doubtful IMO that Jones would have been still around at #13; he was a very good pick IMO - a smart offensive coach might be able to get him to be another Ray Elggard or Sinopoli type CFL slot; and there are some very good O-linemen prospects up each draft - too bad Barker pi$$ed away the 1st rounder for next draft. Picking 3 "project" type O-linemen who were hardly proven college ball players - in one draft - was very questionable by Barker. Should be at least a decent O-line prospect in the 2nd round for next draft year, but if not, rather see them go with one of the several good DT prospects to shore up that ultra weak spot. Like to see the FA list for this CFL off-season - there is bound to be a good NI vet O-linemen there, and I wouldn't write off Josh Bourke either - lots of star O-linemen have played well into their late 30s and the guy wasn't the best OT in the CFL by some fluke till this clueless Argo regime signed him - a much smarter offensive coaching system might easily be able to mold McEwen, Bourke, maybe Homes & Van Roten, plus a draft pick and a free agent (import on national) into a very good O-line.

As far as the NFL being interested in Franklin as a QB ??? - can't see it - they have little to zero use anymore for any CFL QB - Mitchell, Collaros and Reilly are all better than a number of NFL stiff starters IMO let alone 2nd and 3rd stringers there, so why have they got zero call ??? The NFL misses LOTS of good players and we're fortunate to see a bunch of them play in the CFL.

[matchuk]

We need to make a call to Tim Tebow...or JaMarcus Russell...or Casey Printers (lol, sorry Angelo)...

What is Michael Bishop doing nowadays?

[jerrym]

This game was another reason why Milanovich's coaching judgement needs to be questioned. The game meant nothing and was a perfect opportunity to audition new players, who have been on the roster but infrequently played or are on the practice roster. It's great to have both Shaw and Whitaker get 1000 yards but that doesn't help prepare for next year. Whitaker will be 32 next season and coming to the end of his career and Shaw may take a run at the NFL. Some will argue that it was showing loyalty to Whitaker; if that was the case Kachert should have been dressed since he has been loyal to the team for more years than Whitaker, especially since neither are likely to be around next year.

Ray could have played briefly, so he wrap up his career where he began it and then LeFevour or Willy or Kilgore should have played. Talking about QB's, Fajargo can't still be injured, can he? If anyone has any inside info re his injury, I'd love to hear it.

Even against Argo's non-existent D, Franklin performance was truly exceptional. Can anyone argue that Willy shouldn't be cut so the team can offer his contract to Franklin?

It isn't just the 1-11 record in the last 12 games but the way the team has got worse as the season progressed. Making it a complete debacle is the ridiculous trade for Willy. Their best (perhaps on good D back) and THE 1st round draft choice for a non-mobile, slow delivery, poor decision making QB. It's not as if he is young and will likely to improve--he's 30 next year!

Hopefully, major changes will occur because without them, we can only expect a repeat of this year's disaster.

Sums up my feelings exactly.

[Argo57]

Listening to Ray being interviewed yesterday I think he has had enough, he is still effective but for a proud guy that has had a Hall of Fame type career that may not be enough.
The continued physical beating would be the other reason to hang them up.

[ArgoGabe22]

If Milanovich, in his own mind, believes he will be let go at seasons end, then it doesn't matter what he does. If Whitaker is so much better than Kackert and Malena, then that gives the team the best chance to win anyways. Also, SM is pretty loyal to his players so it's a nice touch IMO to give your team MOP an opportunity to hit 1000 yards. The accomplishments may also reward Whitaker and Shaw some sort of bonus pay. I have no issues with what he did.

[zontar]

Is EDM's Franklin due to be a free agent next year or not ? Lot of conflicting answers out there. anyone clear on it ?

[Ron]

Why does SM have to audition players he already knows won't be back?

[Ron]

If Milanovich, in his own mind, believes he will be let go at seasons end, then it doesn't matter what he does.

He's acting like a coach that knows 100% he'll be back.

[timlb01]

I am tired of the Argo offence over the past few years putting up good passing percentage numbers and yards but never enough points. Enough of this crap offence. Enough of this complex offence. Just have one that puts points on the board. Get me a QB that can run and through. I have never liked QB's that cannot run. If I could have any QB in the league right now it would be Jonathan Jennings. He is already one of the best QB's and will soon be the best QB in the league.

I don't see Willy working out. He showed nothing as an Argo or a Bomber this year. I have no confidence in any of the QB's we have currently. If Willy doesn't want to come back for a lot less money cut him loose and look to other options like Franklin. I am anxiously waiting to see what the team does this off season.

[argotom]

After yesterday's yet another pathetic show and which has been all too common this year, like John Candy's Billy Sol Hurok character said the entire team from GM, coaching staff and players need to be blown up real good.
As for the most important position on the team just like in hockey where most experts say you start from the goalie out, the QB position of course is a disaster.
I would try to sign that Franklin kid we saw yesterday, he is a FA and then invite LeFevour back and Kilgore to compete plus a few more QB
hopefuls signed in the off season.

[ArgoRavi]

Is EDM's Franklin due to be a free agent next year or not ? Lot of conflicting answers out there. anyone clear on it ?

Ed Hervey confirmed on Sunday that Franklin still has one year left on his Edmonton contract so he will not be a free agent until 2018.

[R.J]

The CFL retweeted Dave Campbell's tweet about Franklin being on a 3 year deal, so unless he's traded, Franklin will be wearing Green and Gold. Admittedly, I was wrong, still a bit surprised that Franklin would sign a 3 year deal though.