"If I was Michael Copeland" - Ideas for Argos off-the-field 2017 Thread

[Shipyard]

Everyones ideas/comments seem to have spread into multitude of threads, so I'm starting this thread so all ideas can easily go into one thread, make it easy for Argos back office people to look into this forum at our ideas, and just maybe some of them will end up implemented.

[Shipyard]

I think there is real feeling of lack of "value" for $ among season ticket holders.
- bigger discount vs face for season ticket holders
- more perks for having season tickets

To grow the lost generation of fans:
- kids season ticket (upper decks sections only) under 12 only for only $70/season with normally priced season ticket (they aren't selling up there anyways so they aren't losing anything).
- Sell the same to any minor football players in GTA, you could sell them through spring flag programs (start in april/may thru june)

[Mightygoose]

A few things on the list which some I believe will be addressed if the surveys are an indication where they’re going.

A consistent schedule. There will always be the chance of Thursday games in the summer and scattered Friday games for TV purposes. The majority will need to be on a common day. If that day is Saturday, communicate that early even though the schedule is still to be finalized. Predictability is key for STH so we can plan as far out as possible.

SHT pricing. With how bad things have gone, on and off the field, I think there should be reduced pricing across the board with the bigger drop for existing STHs if renewed by X date. They should still drop for new but at a lower amount.

Free upgrades. For existing STHs pay the same as last year with and get a category upgrade. i.e. Gold A to Platinum A. A choice needs to be offered between the priced reduction or category upgrade.

Yes, to youth pricing for STs. Also flex and singles. Upper bowl and in the family section

Better perks – a minimum 10% off the team store though I think 15% should be offered. Reduced parking passes would be nice too.
Have ST events again. Draft parties and town hall meetings. They won’t be so tied up with the new stadium and Grey Cup this time. Even a viewing party if the Argos start on the road.

Would like to see multi-year options ranging from 1 through 5 years. The more years, you lock into, the better per seat price and more perks. Therefore in a bad year, they won’t have 100% of the ST base up for renewal at once. They can focus more on new sales.

A loyalty program. The more consecutive years as a ST, the better perks or have a bank of credits to be used on extra tickets, merchandise etc…Montreal has something along these lines.

A partnership with one of the local university team either York or U of T. STs include a pair of tickets top one of their games, perhaps the one they play each other. I believe Edmonton has something similar with U of A.

I’ll come up with more later I’m sure.

[ArgoGabe22]

- Family Pack - 4 tickets, 4 food items, 4 drinks, and 4 fan towels for only $44.44! Ok, maybe not at that price but you get the idea.
- Fan Day
- Town Hall. I don't even want/expect free beer. The year they didn't have free beer seemed to get everyone angry for some reason.

[1971GreyCup]

I am listening to a very rationale discussion of the Argos and Grey Cup issues for former Argos VP Brian Cooper on the Bob McCowan show. No Argo bashing here.

[paulwoods13]

Many excellent ideas, mightygoose. Especially like the multi-year option.

[Shipyard]

Many excellent ideas, mightygoose. Especially like the multi-year option.

Or your season ticket discount to face was based on how many consecutive years as a holder (up to a max discount)

I believe TFC has a similar deal. And some of those guys are down to $13/game .... there is no way they are not renewing, and go back to $30/game if they skip a year and come back

[gilthethrill]

I don't have anything to add that has not been mentioned before by other fans, but a beat writer would really help fans follow the team more closely. Transactions, player movements and interest stories really seem to lack with this team, while down the road in Hamilton Drew Edwards does an amazing job with the Cats. The return of Argo TV on the website wouldn't hurt either. Update the website while their at it.

[PullTogether73]

I am listening to a very rationale discussion of the Argos and Grey Cup issues for former Argos VP Brian Cooper on the Bob McCowan show. No Argo bashing here.

I heard most of that as well.
I'm getting the impression that Rogers management has told on-air and production staff to not be as hostile to the Argos/CFL as they have been ordered to be in the past. I think there might have been some backlash against Rogers which they are trying to address.

[PullTogether73]

Many excellent ideas, mightygoose. Especially like the multi-year option.

Agreed - some interesting ideas.

I believe the consistent schedule idea is beyond the purview of the Argonauts, but the other options are within their power.

[1971GreyCup]

I heard most of that as well.
I'm getting the impression that Rogers management has told on-air and production staff to not be as hostile to the Argos/CFL as they have been ordered to be in the past. I think there might have been some backlash against Rogers which they are trying to address.

That's interesting. You might have something there. We switched to Bell Media due to the harsh treatment of the Argo at the corporate level. Maybe it was measurable after all.

[Neely2005]

I heard most of that as well.
I'm getting the impression that Rogers management has told on-air and production staff to not be as hostile to the Argos/CFL as they have been ordered to be in the past. I think there might have been some backlash against Rogers which they are trying to address.

Yup, there was fallout from the recent Dean Blundell incident and Rogers was none to pleased.

[Neely2005]

The Mods might want to merge this thread with this one:

http://www.argofans.com/showthread.php?3360-ideas-for-in-coming-president-Michael-Copeland

[R.J]

My list would pretty much be the same thing I wrote last year, but I'd just change the ticket prices.

I originally wrote this in the survey thread, but I edited it, so I'll post it here as well.
On Field A: $1,500 - $1600 for Seasons and $185 -$190 for Single game
On Field B: $1,200 for Seasons and $150 for Single game
Club : $800 - $900 for Seasons and $100 - $120 for Single game
Platinum: $650 - $700 for Seasons and $85 - $90 for Single game
Gold: $500 for Seasons and $75 for Single game
Silver: $350 for Seasons and $45- $50 for Single game
Fanzone/Endzone : $250 and $30-35 for single game
Light Blue (Family Zone and Upper deck corners): keep as is for $199 Seasons and $25 for single game.
All Prices should include a $5-$30 (depending on seat) discount for children under 12.

Nothing else to add that I or someone else hasn't already written.

[Shipyard]

The Mods might want to merge this thread with this one:

http://www.argofans.com/showthread.php?3360-ideas-for-in-coming-president-Michael-Copeland

prefer that doesn't happen. This thread is reflective the the past season, and how do they improve off the field only for next year (ticketing, prices, stadium, advertising...)
Most of that thread is pre-BMO and the move in.

I hope the mods would sticky this so any club employee lookiloos can quickly scan through the thread and just maybe some ideas are implemented ... right now we have lots of great ideas but they are spread out in 5-6 threads so no one can find them.

[Shipyard]

I heard most of that as well.
I'm getting the impression that Rogers management has told on-air and production staff to not be as hostile to the Argos/CFL as they have been ordered to be in the past. I think there might have been some backlash against Rogers which they are trying to address.

changed my cell phone and cable provider because of it. ... it will be a long time before they earn my trust again.

[RB957]

Some great ideas listed. Here are my two cents worth:

- I went to a Jays game with a friend who had season's tickets, and Rogers Centre provided STH's a special entrance just for them so that they could by-pass the long lineups. To be honest, I am not sure if the logistics at BMO would allow this, but having something like that would be awesome, and considered a real perk for those who are STH's.
- Similarly, the Rogers Centre has a board in the concourse which showed the names of all of their season ticket holders. IIRC, it was electronic and the names scrolled through, but it was noticeable and to me showed a degree of respect and gratitude to their most committed fans. At the Rogers Centre, the Argos did honour one STH per game with the VIA pass, but they could just expand the recognition without the need to provide anything tangible. It would still mean something.
- minimum 15% discount on Argos merch, and it should not matter if it's purchased on-line, at the stadium, or via CFL shop.
- could corporate sponsors involved with the Argos be enticed to also offer discounts?
- i previously really liked the promotion the Argos had with Shoeless Joe's for 15% on game days. They should bring that back. Now I appreciate that they are really pitching the Shipyard and Tailgate, but having that as an option is a bonus
- The team could hold a draw at the end of the season, open to STH's only for some unique swag: e.g. signed football, signed jersey, signed helmet etc. Wouldn't cost them much but would be a treasured keepsake.
- I know the Argos had a tour of their locker room as an All-Access prize if you were able to collect 10,000 points, but what about having an "open house" type event for STH's . Could also include their practice facility. Tied into a town hall event that was mentioned by someone else?
- As far as the game day promotion, they did a great job with shipyard and tailgate. The t-shirts at home opener were awesome as were the towels at another game. They could add a couple more similar promotions during the season ( kind of every other game)
- what about having different themes during the season at home games, and where applicable linking that to Argos history, through in-game videos during commercial breaks, or announcements. For eg. if you had a 50's theme, this would be reflected in the music that is played, the costumes cheerleaders wear, and then perhaps video clips of the Argos or Argo greats from that time period.
- If I am not mistaken, there is out there somewhere an 'Argos cheer-type song'. I think we should resurrect it and really use that to hype the crowd especially after TD's are scored. The Oskee wee wee thing really works for the TiCats, and I saw the same thing at a Philadelphia Eagles home game. Every time they scored, they played this cheer and the crowd went nuts.
- is there a Canadian celebrity or entertainer out there who could be an Argos ambassador? Similar to what the Raptors have with Drake. Someone who is a proud Canadian and could pump up the CFL game and especially the Toronto Argos? I am just picturing someone like Mike Myers doing a promotional video a la "Wayne's World". It could be really cool and would raise the profile in the GTA.
- similarly, there could be up and coming musicians or performers who could partner for performances during the shipyard pre-game and then half-time.

There is so much potential to make the Argos a must-see event.

[Tobythor]

Must grow youth football in the city, most likely flag or touch due to cost and parental concerns. The goal should be to have some sort of Football team at every high-school and middle school in the city within the next ten years. Give every player a free ticket to a game and discounted tickets to all other games. Have a championship day at the stadium, where all the finals are played. Have Argo players, Jason, the cheerleaders on hand and give-a-ways to promote the Argos to the parents and student spectators.

Go after every rec adult athlete in the city. Such as, offering every team in the ASHL (Adult Safe Hockey League) heavily discounted tickets and a free tailgate pass if they get 10 tickets. Most of my hockey team, average age 30, would need the incentive of partying with friends and like $10 tickets to go to an Argo game. Make an annual ASHL day on the best tailgating day, such as a Saturday against Hamilton. I believe in the tailgate as a draw moving forward, the Argos need the average sports fan to check it out in person, see it's a big deal and have a good time.

They need a townhall for STH for sure, most likely before renewals to help defuse all the disasters from this season both on and off the field.

[Stevoman]

If you hire a photographer for each game but never update your site to showcase her photos it seems like a waste of money and her time.

[Shatto]

All the previous posters are to be commended for their many excellent ideas. I hope Argo management read and consider implementing, in some form or other, some of these very worthwhile suggestions. "Mightygoose", "SnowRogue" and "RB957" in particular provided a plethora of good ideas and Argo management would be wise, to at least consider some of their suggestions. The suggestion by "Gillthethrill" of having a beat writer along the lines of the Ti-Cat's Drew Edwards, is a really important suggestion. Most of my friends and acquaintances, know hardly anything about the players or any of the human interest stories attached to players. The more the general public become aware of these things, the more likely some might be persuaded to actually see the players in real life.

I have been informed by an Argo staff member that this site is read by the Argo management. Hopefully, they will do more than just read the suggestions made by the above posters.

The only suggestion I would add, would be to allow STH'S to purchase a season pass to the tailgating at a greatly reduced price (1/2 or 1/3 of the regular $30 per game price)

[Stevoman]

Haha...an hour after I made my post, I saw this:https://torontoargonauts.exposure.co/friday-night-lights-in-calgary, a nice coincidence!

[paulwoods13]

The suggestion by "Gillthethrill" of having a beat writer along the lines of the Ti-Cat's Drew Edwards, is a really important suggestion.

The only way the team can influence this is to hire its own reporter and publish his/her content on an Argo-owned site. More and more teams and leagues are doing this (including Blue Bombers) but it's not cheap as you have to pay the reporter and have an editor handle the content. Drew Edwards does a good job but he works for a newspaper that has (accurately IMO) determined that the Tiger-Cats have a large enough following in Hamilton to warrant daily reporting. In Toronto, Argos are at best the fourth-biggest team in town and the newspapers (other than the Sun) have not chosen have someone fully dedicated to Argo coverage. Nothing the organization can do will change that.

[1971GreyCup]

The only way the team can influence this is to hire its own reporter and publish his/her content on an Argo-owned site. More and more teams and leagues are doing this (including Blue Bombers) but it's not cheap as you have to pay the reporter and have an editor handle the content. Drew Edwards does a good job but he works for a newspaper that has (accurately IMO) determined that the Tiger-Cats have a large enough following in Hamilton to warrant daily reporting. In Toronto, Argos are at best the fourth-biggest team in town and the newspapers (other than the Sun) have not chosen have someone fully dedicated to Argo coverage. Nothing the organization can do will change that.

Maybe the recently retired Curtis Rush could be coaxed into this role? Ideal with his football pedigree at The Star. I see he is doing great freelance work for The New York Times, and The Wall Street Journal on Canadian hockey and baseball. Might Just for him. We just need a recently retired editor to complete the package. Know anyone Paul that fits the bill?

[Argoknot]

Yup, there was fallout from the recent Dean Blundell incident and Rogers was none to pleased.Curious, what did he do?

[shayman]

- If I am not mistaken, there is out there somewhere an 'Argos cheer-type song'. I think we should resurrect it and really use that to hype the crowd especially after TD's are scored. The Oskee wee wee thing really works for the TiCats, and I saw the same thing at a Philadelphia Eagles home game. Every time they scored, they played this cheer and the crowd went nuts.

Yes, indeed - "Go Argos Go" from the 1968 Dal Richards album "CFL Songs." Listen to the whole album here - http://argonotes.com/CFLSongs/

here's the original recording - http://argonotes.com/CFLSongs/Argos.mp3
and the version we play now - http://argonotes.com/GAG.mp3
and a songsheet with the lyrics- http://argonotes.com/Songsheet.pdf

and for completeness since you mentioned it, here's "Fly Eagles Fly", one of the better NFL songs- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1b97wo2Ekww


(The band has been playing Go Argos Go a dozen times a game for 20 years, before and after the game and after every score, but nobody can hear it and the team always seems to have other ideas about touchdown celebrations, but we'll keep trying.)

[ArgoFan1]

Argos and the league in whole need to work out much better schedules. With Hamilton being the main tenant at THF, they were 6 weeks between home games !!! What moron at the CFL scheduled that? Argos had a long period with no home games as well, four weeks. There is absolutely no excuse for such lousy scheduling, when most CFL teams are the main team at their stadium. Being away for a month just takes the team out of the spotlight for too long. I would say maximum three weeks between games. Cannot be too hard to do. I don't really mind the day of the week it is played on, as sometime variety is good, but if they really want to push the tailgating, it has to be a weekend game.
I think there just has to be a general reduction in ticket prices across the board, but mainly on the lower end. When you are not getting customers, you must always reduce the price and entice them back.

[moeajram]

Argos and the league in whole need to work out much better schedules. With Hamilton being the main tenant at THF, they were 6 weeks between home games !!! What moron at the CFL scheduled that? Argos had a long period with no home games as well, four weeks. There is absolutely no excuse for such lousy scheduling, when most CFL teams are the main team at their stadium. Being away for a month just takes the team out of the spotlight for too long. I would say maximum three weeks between games. Cannot be too hard to do. I don't really mind the day of the week it is played on, as sometime variety is good, but if they really want to push the tailgating, it has to be a weekend game.
I think there just has to be a general reduction in ticket prices across the board, but mainly on the lower end. When you are not getting customers, you must always reduce the price and entice them back.
You are so right about the schedule, how about the number of times we had games within less then a week at home such as October 10 vs Calgary and then less then 5 days later on October 15 we were at home playing Sask.

[PullTogether73]

Yes, indeed - "Go Argos Go" from the 1968 Dal Richards album "CFL Songs." Listen to the whole album here - http://argonotes.com/CFLSongs/

here's the original recording - http://argonotes.com/CFLSongs/Argos.mp3
and the version we play now - http://argonotes.com/GAG.mp3
and a songsheet with the lyrics- http://argonotes.com/Songsheet.pdf

and for completeness since you mentioned it, here's "Fly Eagles Fly", one of the better NFL songs- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1b97wo2Ekww


(The band has been playing Go Argos Go a dozen times a game for 20 years, before and after the game and after every score, but nobody can hear it and the team always seems to have other ideas about touchdown celebrations, but we'll keep trying.)

I REALLY wish the Argonauts would establish the tradition of playing the team fight song after touchdowns.
I've attended a few Bears games in Chicago and they do that, and it's awesome having the entire stadium singing "Bear Down" as the music is played on the speakers and the lyrics flash on the video board. (I find the Bears song much better than the Eagles song btw.)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2dccJ3MCgU0

The Buffalo Bills do the same thing, but their "The Bills Make Me Want to Shout" song is kind of weak.

I think it would be cool to have the Argonotes record the Argonauts fight song with the Toronto Symphony Orchestra - a video at Roy Thomson Hall with the Argonotes in full regalia in front of the TSO.

[paulwoods13]

Mark me down as vociferously in favour of Go Argos Go being restored to its rightful place as the post-TD song played in stadium. Dal's version or (micd/amplified) Argonotes, either would be great.

There's another Argo song from 1981 that could also be resurrected. http://bouncingbackbook.ca/post/44370945431/the-great-lost-argo-anthem-love-them-argos-over

[Will]

I REALLY wish the Argonauts would establish the tradition of playing the team fight song after touchdowns.
I've attended a few Bears games in Chicago and they do that, and it's awesome having the entire stadium singing "Bear Down" as the music is played on the speakers and the lyrics flash on the video board. (I find the Bears song much better than the Eagles song btw.)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2dccJ3MCgU0

The Buffalo Bills do the same thing, but their "The Bills Make Me Want to Shout" song is kind of weak.

I think it would be cool to have the Argonotes record the Argonauts fight song with the Toronto Symphony Orchestra - a video at Roy Thomson Hall with the Argonotes in full regalia in front of the TSO.

I'm partial to the SKOL VIKINGS song, but then again I'm probably a bit biased in that department.

[Will]

We heard much about this market research that was supposedly done prior to the season. Several theories have been presented by members here such as their research determined that the re-branding/re-build would be a long-term job (attendance this season more or less laid that out) and that the reason Liberty Village was targeted was due to the fact that the schedule was NOT family-friendly. However, I still can't fathom their pricing strategy. It is true that some of the other sports teams in Toronto are known for higher ticket prices, but the Argos are/were not dealing from an equal footing. I think the front office now realizes this and thus adjustments will be made to the pricing (hopefully) for next year.

While I despise the Tiger-Cats, I have to admit that I feel more valued as an STH by that team than I do as an Argo. Now, when Bob Young bought the Ticats in 2004 he had to go through some growing pains as well so I recognize that this takes time. But, I feel kept in the loop by the Ticats through emails, STH events and stuff like that even though I have no interest in attending them as a non-Ticat fan. It is the thought that counts to me. Once the Argos get their footing, I'm hoping that they can start to implement some of this stuff because best practices isn't a bad thing.

[Neely2005]

Curious, what did he do?

http://3downnation.com/2016/05/17/16252/

[AngeloV]

You are so right about the schedule, how about the number of times we had games within less then a week at home such as October 10 vs Calgary and then less then 5 days later on October 15 we were at home playing Sask.

5 games between July 31 and Aug 23 (5, 6, 6 and 6 days between games). That is a brutal schedule.

[R.J]

5 games between July 31 and Aug 23 (5, 6, 6 and 6 days between games). That is a brutal schedule.
Maybe it's just me, but I don't see that as a big deal. Montreal's schedule the last 2 seasons has been worse IMO. Add in that the Ticats were 6 weeks away from home this season IIRC.

[AngeloV]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see that as a big deal. Montreal's schedule the last 2 seasons has been worse IMO. Add in that the Ticats were 6 weeks away from home this season IIRC.

I think the issue is that in the 4 games following July 31, they played a more rested team. Even the 2nd of home and home with the Cats was advantage Cats, because the Argos were playing their 3rd game in 11 days.

[Will]

I think the issue is that in the 4 games following July 31, they played a more rested team. Even the 2nd of home and home with the Cats was advantage Cats, because the Argos were playing their 3rd game in 11 days.

At the end of the day, how much did this result in a 5-12 record though?

[AngeloV]

At the end of the day, how much did this result in a 5-12 record though?

Who really knows? They were good against BC in game 1 of that stretch. Blew leads in game 3 and 4 late, a sign of fatigue. Not saying the Argos were a good team this year at the end of the day, but who really knows if it had an impact? It is a possibility.

[RB957]

Yes, indeed - "Go Argos Go" from the 1968 Dal Richards album "CFL Songs." Listen to the whole album here - http://argonotes.com/CFLSongs/

here's the original recording - http://argonotes.com/CFLSongs/Argos.mp3
and the version we play now - http://argonotes.com/GAG.mp3
and a songsheet with the lyrics- http://argonotes.com/Songsheet.pdf


(http://argonotes.com/Songsheet.pdf)and for completeness since you mentioned it, here's "Fly Eagles Fly", one of the better NFL songs- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1b97wo2Ekww


(The band has been playing Go Argos Go a dozen times a game for 20 years, before and after the game and after every score, but nobody can hear it and the team always seems to have other ideas about touchdown celebrations, but we'll keep trying.)

Thank you very much for sharing that. I have heard that song played at games before and never realized it was the Argos fight song. Love the Argonotes version. BTW, I think you guys are awesome and should be getting a higher profile at the games. Hopefully members of Argo management read this forum and give it a shot.

[R.J]

I like the idea of hiring someone like Rush or O'Leary to write for the Argos website. Copeland stated that the team would be the most accessible in North America (IIRC) and that there would be a lot more information for us; started off well IMO, but then went downhill pretty quickly.

[Argo57]

The only way the team can influence this is to hire its own reporter and publish his/her content on an Argo-owned site. More and more teams and leagues are doing this (including Blue Bombers) but it's not cheap as you have to pay the reporter and have an editor handle the content. Drew Edwards does a good job but he works for a newspaper that has (accurately IMO) determined that the Tiger-Cats have a large enough following in Hamilton to warrant daily reporting. In Toronto, Argos are at best the fourth-biggest team in town and the newspapers (other than the Sun) have not chosen have someone fully dedicated to Argo coverage. Nothing the organization can do will change that.

Mr Woods, send your resume to the Argonauts immediately!!!

[paulwoods13]

Mr Woods, send your resume to the Argonauts immediately!!!

Thanks for the vote of confidence, but that won't be happening.

[Ron]

At the end of the day, how much did this result in a 5-12 record though?

It would have been more of a factor if folks still liked Milo.

[S.A.C.]

I just hope they don't start closing off parts of the stadium, the way they closed the 500 level at the dome. If they did, it would likely be the upper level on the west side, to make everyone move to the east side (with the sun in your face) to make the place look more full on TV.

[Argo57]

I just hope they don't start closing off parts of the stadium, the way they closed the 500 level at the dome. If they did, it would likely be the upper level on the west side, to make everyone move to the east side (with the sun in your face) to make the place look more full on TV.

They're in deep trouble if they need to start closing off parts of a 27,000 seat stadium to make it look full.

[Argoknot]

Toronto sports radio host trolls CFL & its fans (http://3downnation.com/2016/05/17/16252/)Oh that old news, I thought he did something new.

[R.J]

So, Ania has switched allegiances, and it seems as though a lot of other STH's aren't happy with the new regime, TanenBELL and Copeland fucked up big time this year. IMO it didn't have to be perfect this season, but a lot better than what I've seen, the regular season and Grey Cup ticket prices (and changes), along with no sth discounts on merch, no town hall, no meet and greets with the players, etc have left a bad taste in people's mouths. I really hope one of the team executives reads this forum, because not only are fans not happy, they're leaving.

[Mightygoose]

It's the silence from management that's more concerning to me.

Mind you I'd like to think they've been huddled up and are going have to kiss some royal...where the sun don't shine...to earn many people's business back.

Also, is this kind of late to not have the renewal process/new ticket sales process up and running? Every other team has it set up. Last off season doesn't count. A late renewal launch tells me management knows the fan base is pissed so they need to be careful on their approach here.

[Shipyard]

It's the silence from management that's more concerning to me.

Mind you I'd like to think they've been huddled up and are going have to kiss some royal...where the sun don't shine...to earn many people's business back.

Also, is this kind of late to not have the renewal process/new ticket sales process up and running? Every other team has it set up. Last off season doesn't count. A late renewal launch tells me management knows the fan base is pissed so they need to be careful on their approach here.

Thus this tread.

Put your ideas down ... they might get noticed and implemented.

[Mightygoose]

Thus this tread.

Put your ideas down ... they might get noticed and implemented.

They're all on post # 3!

It's a long list maybe they're going through it and that's why it's taking so long for the renewal window to start...lol!

[Shipyard]

My main ideas are:

Make it a no-brainer to be a season seat holder - perks! perks! perks!:
- increase the season-ticket discount to face value
- 20% of apparel
- 20% of parking / tailgating
- larger discount for LT SSH ... but if you leave (even for 1 yr), you lose it. Incentive for renewals

To grow the lost generation of fans:
- kids season ticket (upper decks sections only) under 12 only for only $70/season with normally priced season ticket (they aren't selling up there anyways so they aren't losing anything).
- Sell the same to any minor football players in GTA, you could sell them through spring flag programs (start in april/may thru june)
- $10 kids single game ticket (upper decks sections only) -- put coupon via GTA schools in June

Eastside:
- reduce prices overall on the eastside

Gametime:
- Saturdays at 4pm / 5pm
- no weekday games, not with GTA traffic

Marketing:
- a focus marketing effort on Lakeshore GO line stations and surrounding feeder neighbourhoods

[Shipyard]

They're all on post # 3!

It's a long list maybe they're going through it and that's why it's taking so long for the renewal window to start...lol!

mike / sara might put you on retainer

[Mightygoose]

Not sure I can afford the pay cut...lol

Another idea I would like to see and perhaps they're trying it already.

Need to incentive the corporate TFC season ticket holders to add the Argos to their account. My understanding is allot of the STs on lower sidelines are corporate, so offer a 'multi-account' discount since the ownership is mostly the same.

That along with better pricing for families, will fill both the high end and lower priced tickets. Just need to make the middle ground reasonable and have good perks and I think that will go along way.

[R.J]

It's the silence from management that's more concerning to me.

Mind you I'd like to think they've been huddled up and are going have to kiss some royal...where the sun don't shine...to earn many people's business back.

Also, is this kind of late to not have the renewal process/new ticket sales process up and running? Every other team has it set up. Last off season doesn't count. A late renewal launch tells me management knows the fan base is pissed so they need to be careful on their approach here.
If I had to guess, I think the ticket prices and benefits will change for next season, hence why it's taking them so long to figure things out.

[ArgoGabe22]

When fans are leaving for reasons not related to losing, it's definitely a concern. Teams will always have good or bad seasons as that's what sports is. Management should be doing everything it can to make fans feel appreciated. Anita isn't the only one who feels this way.

[AngeloV]

When fans are leaving for reasons not related to losing, it's definitely a concern. Teams will always have good or bad seasons as that's what sports is. Management should be doing everything it can to make fans feel appreciated. Anita isn't the only one who feels this way.

You can call it what you want, but I'm willing to be if the team had a winning season, we wouldn't be hearing a majority of the complaints we are.

[gilthethrill]

So, Ania has switched allegiances, and it seems as though a lot of other STH's aren't happy with the new regime, TanenBELL and Copeland fucked up big time this year. IMO it didn't have to be perfect this season, but a lot better than what I've seen, the regular season and Grey Cup ticket prices (and changes), along with no sth discounts on merch, no town hall, no meet and greets with the players, etc have left a bad taste in people's mouths. I really hope one of the team executives reads this forum, because not only are fans not happy, they're leaving.

Who did Ania switch to? TFC? Sporting Kansas City perhaps?

[R.J]

Who did Ania switch to? TFC? Sporting Kansas City perhaps?
Ticats

I also got Ticat season tickets, and am now waiting to see about the Argonauts.

[Will]

Ticats

I also got Ticat season tickets, and am now waiting to see about the Argonauts.

I got Ticat season tickets this year. They do value you as a season ticket holder that much I will say.

[R.J]

I got Ticat season tickets this year. They do value you as a season ticket holder that much I will say.
I just wanted to watch more football live, so called them up for next season.

[Mightygoose]

My wife has a former colleague who lives in our part of the GTA (Ajax) and has Ti-Cats seasons. They goad us to join but I can't make that kind of trek too frequently...maybe a flexpack.

[Scooter McCray]

Bob Young is a passionate owner and that filters down from the top. Just as John Candy's love of the Argos permeated throughout the organization. I am very interested in hearing from the owners and mgmt on their thoughts on year one and where we go next. I want to hear commitment and passion from them. The greatest successes always come from the greatest failures.

[Ron]

I expect Argo ownership will be closer to TFC style ownership than CFL style. (what perks do TFC season seat holders get?) They can easily point and say that the "community style" you see in Hammer and elsewhere in the CFL does not work in Toronto. Frankly the number of fans that the extra stuff matters too is very small. The majority just go to the game and could care less about fan days, etc.

[Ron]

Bob Young is a passionate owner and that filters down from the top. Just as John Candy's love of the Argos permeated throughout the organization. I am very interested in hearing from the owners and mgmt on their thoughts on year one and where we go next. I want to hear commitment and passion from them. The greatest successes always come from the greatest failures.

You will hear commitment and passion from them. Just not at the rah rah level you're expecting.

[doubleblue]

I expect Argo ownership will be closer to TFC style ownership than CFL style. (what perks do TFC season seat holders get?) They can easily point and say that the "community style" you see in Hammer and elsewhere in the CFL does not work in Toronto. Frankly the number of fans that the extra stuff matters too is very small. The majority just go to the game and could care less about fan days, etc.

I still value my Argo back pack. :)

[ArgoGabe22]

I still value my Argo back pack. :)

My picture frames are still in the living room!

[paulwoods13]

I got Ticat season tickets this year. They do value you as a season ticket holder that much I will say.

How, specifically?

[doubleblue]

My picture frames are still in the living room!

Yes, the 2004 Grey Cup Champion picture and frame, it's hanging in the Man Cave.

[1971GreyCup]

I got Ticat season tickets this year. They do value you as a season ticket holder that much I will say.


To be fair, Bob Young and the Ticats have steadily added value since taking over the team. I am pretty sure there were plenty of lessons learned after year one and the early years had pretty dreadful coaches and on field performance. They had all the mistakes, called experience, in plenty of time to move into Tim Hortons Field.

[paulwoods13]

Again I ask, what specific value do Ticat STHs get? A lot of people here are calling for Argo STHs to get more value, and while I don't disagree with that, I'm sure curious as to what Ticat STHs get that we don't. I'm pretty sure Ticat STHs have complained about the crappy physical tickets they get, but other than that I cannot recall reading anything about any perks they get.

[AngeloV]

Again I ask, what specific value do Ticat STHs get? A lot of people here are calling for Argo STHs to get more value, and while I don't disagree with that, I'm sure curious as to what Ticat STHs get that we don't. I'm pretty sure Ticat STHs have complained about the crappy physical tickets they get, but other than that I cannot recall reading anything about any perks they get.

I don't get it either Paul. I do get that it was a very bad season, but the turning on the team by so many on here is so over the top. Bob Young, as hard as he tried, took at least 5 or 6 years to make an impact over there. What was his big move in year 1? Putting flowers in the women's restrooms at Ivor Wynne and pissing off their "hard core" fans by trying to get them to stop with the Argos suck chant. Wow. If only the Argos had done that, then all would be good. SMH

[R.J]

Again I ask, what specific value do Ticat STHs get? A lot of people here are calling for Argo STHs to get more value, and while I don't disagree with that, I'm sure curious as to what Ticat STHs get that we don't. I'm pretty sure Ticat STHs have complained about the crappy physical tickets they get, but other than that I cannot recall reading anything about any perks they get.
http://ticats.ca/tickets#season-seat-holder-benefits

[argofan81]

A lot of people have been asking what other teams give their STHs as benefits (that we don't get), specifically, Hamilton. I am going to provide links to other teams STH benefits so that you can read for yourselves.

Hamilton - http://ticats.ca/tickets/#season-seat-holder-benefits

Montreal - http://en.montrealalouettes.com/season-ticket-memberships/

Ottawa - http://www.ottawaredblacks.com/2016-season-ticket-benefits/

Winnipeg - http://www.bluebombers.com/season-ticket-member-benefits/

Edmonton - http://www.esks.com/the-perks/

Calgary - http://www.stampeders.com/seasontickets/

BC - http://www.bclions.com/benefits-2/

I couldn't find information for Saskatchewan but I suspect that is due to the fact that they have a wait list for their season tickets not because there aren't any benefits.

Now to compare those benefits to Toronto - http://www.argonauts.ca/2016-season-tickets/ where the "benefits" were a savings of up to 33% (for most this amounted to a free playoff ticket which didn't happen), first right to purchase 104th grey cup tickets and priority access to grey cup events.

With respect to Hamilton, I am not a season ticket holder but I do recall seeing/hearing about several STH events during the season that involved player meet & greets, etc.

[Scooter McCray]

http://ticats.ca/tickets#season-seat-holder-benefitsThis would have been real easy to copy here and/or whatever other teams are doing. There are plenty of best practices at the other teams that can be copied for year one. From there the team can fine tune and create new best practices.

[paulwoods13]

Ok, let's look at it.

* Secure your same seats at the best price. Argos clearly do this as well. That's the whole point of STs.
* Exchange seats for games you can't attend using ticket swap program. I don't know if Argos do this, but they should.
* $50 referral bonus for new STHs. Argos should do this but it wouldn't benefit a lot of STHs IMO.
* 10% discount on merch at team shop. Argos don't have a shop but should offer this at concessions. 10% is not a huge discount.
* Playoff game tix included. Argos do this, AND offered refund/credit.
* Presale access to next yr's GC. Argos did it this year, guessing they will do so again next yr.
* New season seat benefits card. No indication of what benefits it includes, maybe some restaurant/shopping discounts? Probably a challenge for Argos to match this.
* Access to exclusive STH events. Argos did not do that this year (and many complained about it). Bet they will next year.
* Manage your tix using account mgr. Argos offer an acct mgr program, and offer nicer physical tickets.

So Argos fell short on exclusive events (whatever that actually means), ticket swap, benefits card (whatever that means) and 10% merch discount. Some of those will be offered next year, if I had to bet.

[R.J]

* Playoff game tix included. Argos do this, AND offered refund/credit.
Every team does this when playoff tickets are included in the package and the team misses the playoffs.

[argofan81]

Ok, let's look at it.

* Secure your same seats at the best price. Argos clearly do this as well. That's the whole point of STs.
* Exchange seats for games you can't attend using ticket swap program. I don't know if Argos do this, but they should.
* $50 referral bonus for new STHs. Argos should do this but it wouldn't benefit a lot of STHs IMO.
* 10% discount on merch at team shop. Argos don't have a shop but should offer this at concessions. 10% is not a huge discount.
* Playoff game tix included. Argos do this, AND offered refund/credit.
* Presale access to next yr's GC. Argos did it this year, guessing they will do so again next yr.
* New season seat benefits card. No indication of what benefits it includes, maybe some restaurant/shopping discounts? Probably a challenge for Argos to match this.
* Access to exclusive STH events. Argos did not do that this year (and many complained about it). Bet they will next year.
* Manage your tix using account mgr. Argos offer an acct mgr program, and offer nicer physical tickets.

So Argos fell short on exclusive events (whatever that actually means), ticket swap, benefits card (whatever that means) and 10% merch discount. Some of those will be offered next year, if I had to bet.

Yes the Argos did fall short on those items and perhaps the point that a lot are trying to make is that we had many of those benefits last season -- how hard would it really have been to maintain them given that they were already in effect? We had ticket swap, we had merchandise discounts and we had fan day (albeit this was never a STH only event). I understand that ownership had a lot going on this year and could forgive them for not adding on to our benefits in the first year but to actually cut them back -- well I think this is why they may lose a lot of STHs next year. I also feel that pricing was a bit of an issue, not much incentive to buy seasons (given that with the schedule, it may not be possible to attend every game anyway) vs. buying individual game tickets. Specifically I saved $40/ticket for my season tickets -- and that $40 was lost due to the game I couldn't attend and wasn't able to sell / swap to another game.

I haven't jumped ship yet with respect to season tickets. I am waiting to see what the renewal package looks like but there is certainly a chance that I may not renew my seasons and just go with a flex pack next year. I would certainly never jump ship to go to the dark side (black and gold).

[ArgoGabe22]

While I don't expect anything, did the Argos do anything during the last game? To me it didn't seem to be much of a fan appreciation game with exception to the Thanksgiving cornucopia. Which may have been more for Thanksgiving.

[Neely2005]

While I don't expect anything, did the Argos do anything during the last game? To me it didn't seem to be much of a fan appreciation game with exception to the Thanksgiving cornucopia. Which may have been more for Thanksgiving.

They didn't have an official Fan Appreciation Game / Event this season.

[paulwoods13]

Yes the Argos did fall short on those items and perhaps the point that a lot are trying to make is that we had many of those benefits last season -- how hard would it really have been to maintain them given that they were already in effect? We had ticket swap, we had merchandise discounts and we had fan day (albeit this was never a STH only event).

If we had ticket swap capabilities last year and not this year, that's news to me but I have never tried to swap. I find it hard to believe we had it in 2015 but it was taken away in 2016, but I guess that's possible. I know we have had merch discounts in the past although I can't remember exactly how they were to be used -- in the Jays store at RC? (Which we obviously didn't have access to this year.) Fan day never had anything to do with season's tickets. It might be a good idea to have a STH fan day but this is not something that was removed from our season's tickets. So at this point the sum total of what got worse from last year to this year seems to be lack of ability to swap tickets (if true) and lack of merch discount (understandable since there is no official store). I'm having a hard time agreeing with the notion I got treated worse as an STH this year than I did last year. This year every game promised to me was played at the time and location promised. That in itself is a huge improvement.

[Will]

With different customers comes different expectations I guess.

[R.J]

With different customers comes different expectations I guess.
That's true. I'd like a Town Hall, and a 10-15% discount on merch (name a team in NA that offers a bigger discount), but they're not make or breaks for me. I buy season tickets so that I can support the team and am locked into my seat for the season. I don't have to worry about buying flex packs every few games or singles, and worrying about getting good seats.

[Neely2005]

That's true. I'd like a Town Hall, and a 10-15% discount on merch (name a team in NA that offers a bigger discount), but they're not make or breaks for me. I buy season tickets so that I can support the team and am locked into my seat for the season. I don't have to worry about buying flex packs every few games or singles, and worrying about getting good seats.

If we keep losing season ticket holders at this rate you certainly won't have to worry about getting good seats.

[paulwoods13]

If we keep losing season ticket holders at this rate you certainly won't have to worry about getting good seats.

At what rate? How many people do we know are dropping season's tickets? Half a dozen? Two dozen?

[R.J]

At what rate? How many people do we know are dropping season's tickets? Half a dozen? Two dozen?
1 confirmed, and Argo57 brought up around 20 IIRC.

[Mightygoose]

Question is. How many of those 'no's will change once the renewal notices are sent. Depends on what they're offering in 2017 and beyond. Lower pricing? Free Upgrade? Perks comparable to other teams?

For those who are a current 'no' or on the fence, what's your price?....for lack of a better phrase.

[R.J]

Question is. How many of those 'no's will change once the renewal notices are sent. Depends on what they're offering in 2017 and beyond. Lower pricing? Free Upgrade? Perks comparable to other teams?

For those who are a current 'no' or on the fence, what's your price?....for lack of a better phrase.
I can only speak for myself, but as of right now I'm waiting to see if Barker and Milanovich are back next season. In terms of ticket pricing: I was hoping to switch to the West side next season, somewhere in between sections 222-225, but I will wait to see if ticket prices are adjusted down. I don't mind paying $700-$900 to sit between the 40's, but if the pricing is right between the 40 to the endzone, I'd look at those as well.

[argofan81]

If we had ticket swap capabilities last year and not this year, that's news to me but I have never tried to swap. I find it hard to believe we had it in 2015 but it was taken away in 2016, but I guess that's possible. I know we have had merch discounts in the past although I can't remember exactly how they were to be used -- in the Jays store at RC? (Which we obviously didn't have access to this year.) Fan day never had anything to do with season's tickets. It might be a good idea to have a STH fan day but this is not something that was removed from our season's tickets. So at this point the sum total of what got worse from last year to this year seems to be lack of ability to swap tickets (if true) and lack of merch discount (understandable since there is no official store). I'm having a hard time agreeing with the notion I got treated worse as an STH this year than I did last year. This year every game promised to me was played at the time and location promised. That in itself is a huge improvement.

We absolutely had the swap ability last year as I utilized it more than once. When I asked about it for this year, I was told that they decided not to do it because they felt that tickets were going to sell so well that we would have no problem selling our tickets on our own if we weren't able to attend a game (i.e. there would be so much demand for tickets that single game tickets would be hard to come by so our tickets would move well on a third-party site such as Stub Hub).

The merchandise discounts were available at all stands that sold merchandise in Rogers Centre as well as the Jays store. There might not be an official team store for the Argos but merchandise is sold throughout BMO so we could use our discount card at the stands if we had one.

And I did say that I realized that Fan day was not a STH exclusive event -- I was just listing it as something that we have had in the past that we did not have this year.

[AngeloV]

If we keep losing season ticket holders at this rate you certainly won't have to worry about getting good seats.

Again, The team more than doubled their ST base from '15 to '16. Let's just wait and see if they are really losing ST holders strictly based on what the 20 or so people on here are saying.

[Neely2005]

Again, The team more than doubled their ST base from '15 to '16. Let's just wait and see if they are really losing ST holders strictly based on what the 20 or so people on here are saying.

And we doubled our seats from 2 last year to 4 this year (we're not keeping all 4 next season) and I know that we're not alone. Plus people bought due to the Grey Cup.

I will be shocked (and happy) if our season ticket numbers don't decline next season. This season was supposed to be the big improvement after all the turmoil in recent years and it was a failure on and off the field.

[argofan81]

Someone asked the benefits that are offered to other MLSE teams, so here are the links:

Toronto FC - http://seasonseats.torontofc.ca/new

Raptors - http://www.nba.com/raptors/1617-seasonseats/new/#section-benefits

Leafs - couldn't find a link but guessing that is because there is a wait list

Marlies - http://www.marlies.ca/tickets/SeasonSeatsBenefits.asp

Raptors 905 - http://raptors905.dleague.nba.com/tickets-seasonseats/

All offer very similar benefits to what other CFL teams offer their STHs. Right or wrong I do feel jilted by the fact that all other CFL teams (with the exception of maybe Saskatchewan since I couldn't find their information) offer their STHs benefits while the Argos offer very little. If no other teams offered benefits then why should the Argos....and on a similar argument, if all other teams offer benefits, why can't the Argos?

Copeland also promised us that he was going to take care of his STHs THIS season. A promise that I don't see how anyone can argue that he fulfilled.

[Neely2005]

We absolutely had the swap ability last year as I utilized it more than once. When I asked about it for this year, I was told that they decided not to do it because they felt that tickets were going to sell so well that we would have no problem selling our tickets on our own if we weren't able to attend a game (i.e. there would be so much demand for tickets that single game tickets would be hard to come by so our tickets would move well on a third-party site such as Stub Hub).

The merchandise discounts were available at all stands that sold merchandise in Rogers Centre as well as the Jays store. There might not be an official team store for the Argos but merchandise is sold throughout BMO so we could use our discount card at the stands if we had one.

And I did say that I realized that Fan day was not a STH exclusive event -- I was just listing it as something that we have had in the past that we did not have this year.

Just another example of how badly the front office misjudged their marketplace.

[Shipyard]

Someone asked the benefits that are offered to other MLSE teams, so here are the links:

Toronto FC - http://seasonseats.torontofc.ca/new

Raptors - http://www.nba.com/raptors/1617-seasonseats/new/#section-benefits

Leafs - couldn't find a link but guessing that is because there is a wait list

Marlies - http://www.marlies.ca/tickets/SeasonSeatsBenefits.asp

Raptors 905 - http://raptors905.dleague.nba.com/tickets-seasonseats/

All offer very similar benefits to what other CFL teams offer their STHs. Right or wrong I do feel jilted by the fact that all other CFL teams (with the exception of maybe Saskatchewan since I couldn't find their information) offer their STHs benefits while the Argos offer very little. If no other teams offered benefits then why should the Argos....and on a similar argument, if all other teams offer benefits, why can't the Argos?

Copeland also promised us that he was going to take care of his STHs THIS season. A promise that I don't see how anyone can argue that he fulfilled.


it should be noted that TFC had a seat holder revolt about 4years ago, as a result most season ticket holders are rolled back to Year 1 prices if they keep renewing, those price are less than half current season ticket prices (ie. 14/game instead of ~$30/game). As a result, their renewal rate is very high, if they walk away for a year they lose that amazing price

[Neely2005]

it should be noted that TFC had a seat holder revolt about 4years ago, as a result most season ticket holders are rolled back to Year 1 prices if they keep renewing, those price are less than half current season ticket prices (ie. 14/game instead of ~$30/game). As a result, their renewal rate is very high, if they walk away for a year they lose that amazing price

Notice how TFC had a low year 1 price and only raised them when they started to fill the stadium.

[Argo57]

At what rate? How many people do we know are dropping season's tickets? Half a dozen? Two dozen?

After the season we have just suffered through 6 people dropping their season seats seems like a feasible number.

[Shipyard]

Notice how TFC had a low year 1 price and only raised them when they started to fill the stadium.

good point.

although no CFL team has $14 tickets ... thats less than junior hockey
another reason they are losing $15-20mil a season

[Argo57]

We absolutely had the swap ability last year as I utilized it more than once. When I asked about it for this year, I was told that they decided not to do it because they felt that tickets were going to sell so well that we would have no problem selling our tickets on our own if we weren't able to attend a game (i.e. there would be so much demand for tickets that single game tickets would be hard to come by so our tickets would move well on a third-party site such as Stub Hub).

The merchandise discounts were available at all stands that sold merchandise in Rogers Centre as well as the Jays store. There might not be an official team store for the Argos but merchandise is sold throughout BMO so we could use our discount card at the stands if we had one.

And I did say that I realized that Fan day was not a STH exclusive event -- I was just listing it as something that we have had in the past that we did not have this year.

I was told the same thing, the swap option was available in 2014 as well.
Nobody really needs any of these perks but wouldn't common sense (and marketing 101) dictate using any means necessary to build your fan base and get people to the stadium (reasonable ticket pricing, discount cards, meet and greet events) etc to get the brand out in the community?

[stuntdog]

That's true. I'd like a Town Hall, and a 10-15% discount on merch (name a team in NA that offers a bigger discount), but they're not make or breaks for me.

Alouettes ST in 2017 will get 15% or 20% discount at the Als Red Zone store and at stadium concessions


15% ou 20% de rabais dans les boutiques Zone Rouge ainsi qu'aux concessions alimentaires du stade, excluant les breuvages alcoolisés (selon votre niveau de reconnaissance)

Redblack ST holders get 30% discount at tonight’s fan appreciation game:





FANAPPRECIATION NIGHT | FRIDAY, NOV.4





Join us this Friday,November 4 for Fan Appreciation Night at TD Place as theREDBLACKS conclude the regular season with a re-match against the Winnipeg BlueBombers. There will be fan giveaways, fun surprises and 20% off all merch items,including jerseys (30% off for Season Ticket Holders). <o:p></o

The Redblacks also have Quarterback Club events – Nov 2nd included Brad Sinopoli, Chris Williams, and Abdul Kanneh. Great way for fans to meet & interact with the players.

[R.J]

^ Good to know about the Als, but the Redblacks deal is for special events it looks like. I still think people are asking for the moon here - I recall reading that there should be at least $100 discount on jerseys for STH's. At the end of the day the Argos are a business, and some people just want cheap and free stuff.

[ArgoGabe22]

^ Good to know about the Als, but the Redblacks deal is for special events it looks like. I still think people are asking for the moon here - I recall reading that there should be at least $100 discount on jerseys for STH's. At the end of the day the Argos are a business, and some people just want cheap and free stuff.

While I agree that some expect a bit too much, I think some people would be happy with a simple 'thank you' that doesn't have to be in a form of something in monetary value. Just that thought that they're appreciative of the fans. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe John Candy gave out Christmas cards and that then once resurfaced sometime between 2008-2011. REDBLACKS had Burris deliver season tickets to people's homes. These little things can go a long way, much longer than discounted merchandise IMO.

[AngeloV]

Personally, I think all the bellyaching on here is about the bad season, and some are looking for added excuses to whine and complain. I don't get it, but hey, that's just me.

[Neely2005]

Personally, I think all the bellyaching on here is about the bad season, and some are looking for added excuses to whine and complain. I don't get it, but hey, that's just me.

Personally I don't think that it has anything to do with the on field performance.

I think that people believe that Argonauts season ticket holders should get the same perks and benefits that they got in the past and that other CFL teams provide to their season ticket holders.

[Scooter McCray]

Seeing as how the Argos had the lowest STH base in the league and play in the most difficult market the new regime's plan IMO in year one should have been whatever the rest of the league is doing we will do and then some. This team needs to work twice as hard than everybody else in the CFL and in Toronto in order to move the needle. Had they done that it is possible the crowds might have still been there despite the bad on field product as in Ottawa in their first year. Look at Ottawa site for tonight's meaningless game. Much more comprehensive than what Argos did this year. Other than organizing the Shipyard and tailgating which was organized last offseason I am struggling to see where the effort was placed this year for marketing the team and engaging the existing fanbase.

[AngeloV]

Personally I don't think that it has anything to do with the on field performance.

I think that people believe that Argonauts season ticket holders should get the same perks and benefits that they got in the past and that other CFL teams provide to their season ticket holders.

I don't know, I paid 180 (after playoff rebate) for comparable seats that cost me 370 last season. If that's getting treated poorly please give me more.

[argofan81]

I don't know, I paid 180 (after playoff rebate) for comparable seats that cost me 370 last season. If that's getting treated poorly please give me more.

I am pretty sure you are in the minority with paying less compared to last year. My seats increased this season for comparable seats to last and I got the impression that most peoples did too.

[R.J]

I too paid $370 last season, but upgraded this season to $700. TBH, I feel that paying $700 to sit in the East upper deck at the 25 yard line was a bit too much, and that next season the team should adjust it down, but I can't fault the team for my decision to pay that price. If I renew for next season I plan to either upgrade to sit near the 55 yard line or downgrade to save some $$$. West side only for me from now on though.

[PullTogether73]

I too paid $370 last season, but upgraded this season to $700. TBH, I feel that paying $700 to sit in the East upper deck at the 25 yard line was a bit too much, and that next season the team should adjust it down, but I can't fault the team for my decision to pay that price. If I renew for next season I plan to either upgrade to sit near the 55 yard line or downgrade to save some $$$. West side only for me from now on though.

Wow!
I didn't realize those seats cost that much!
Completely not worth it imo.

FWIW, my seasons this year were in the Club Seat section. Freakin' expensive, and I got nudged into them by the ticket agent, which I didn't appreciate. (I was looking for an aisle seat in the next section over, which was cheaper. I was told there were none available. I'm pretty sure I saw several available at most games. Anyway...)
I plan to downgrade significantly next year. Probably section 127. The view is still decent there and the price is enormously lower. I will of course wait to see the new pricing first.

Btw, if anyone is willing to accept a very dedicated Argonauts fan to sit with and talk Argos ad nauseum during games next year, I am available.
I have gone by myself to games the last two seasons (I did say "very dedicated") now that my daughters are away at school and I know of no one who would be willing to go to Argo games regularly.

[R.J]

http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/video/how-to-fix-a-sinking-ship-in-toronto~987914

[Neely2005]

Seeing as how the Argos had the lowest STH base in the league and play in the most difficult market the new regime's plan IMO in year one should have been whatever the rest of the league is doing we will do and then some. This team needs to work twice as hard than everybody else in the CFL and in Toronto in order to move the needle. Had they done that it is possible the crowds might have still been there despite the bad on field product as in Ottawa in their first year. Look at Ottawa site for tonight's meaningless game. Much more comprehensive than what Argos did this year. Other than organizing the Shipyard and tailgating which was organized last offseason I am struggling to see where the effort was placed this year for marketing the team and engaging the existing fanbase.

Common sense right there.

[Neely2005]

http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/video/how-to-fix-a-sinking-ship-in-toronto~987914

Hard to argue with that.

[paulwoods13]

Btw, if anyone is willing to accept a very dedicated Argonauts fan to sit with and talk Argos ad nauseum during games next year, I am available.
I have gone by myself to games the last two seasons (I did say "very dedicated") now that my daughters are away at school and I know of no one who would be willing to go to Argo games regularly.

I sent you a direct msg about this. Seat open beside me, I'm pretty sure, and I'd love to have you join the group.

[Neely2005]

Wow!
I didn't realize those seats cost that much!
Completely not worth it imo.

FWIW, my seasons this year were in the Club Seat section. Freakin' expensive, and I got nudged into them by the ticket agent, which I didn't appreciate. (I was looking for an aisle seat in the next section over, which was cheaper. I was told there were none available. I'm pretty sure I saw several available at most games. Anyway...)
I plan to downgrade significantly next year. Probably section 127. The view is still decent there and the price is enormously lower. I will of course wait to see the new pricing first.

Btw, if anyone is willing to accept a very dedicated Argonauts fan to sit with and talk Argos ad nauseum during games next year, I am available.
I have gone by myself to games the last two seasons (I did say "very dedicated") now that my daughters are away at school and I know of no one who would be willing to go to Argo games regularly.

We have 4 tickets right now, will probably be going to 3 next season so the 4th will be open. We're in the 200 Level though.

[R.J]

So, it seems as though there are at least a couple of fans not happy about the Ticats points and STH benefits.
http://forums.cfl.ca/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=102836

[Argo57]

So, it seems as though there are at least a couple of fans not happy about the Ticats points and STH benefits.
http://forums.cfl.ca/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=102836

We were very surprised at how many empty seats were at THF this afternoon.
Fans were chanting "Austin sucks" while leaving THF this afternoon, admittedly got a kick out of that one.

[R.J]

We were very surprised at how many empty seats were at THF this afternoon.
Fans were chanting "Austin sucks" while leaving THF this afternoon, admittedly got a kick out of that one.
Heard that as well when I left, but I was laughing for different reasons.

[PullTogether73]

So, it seems as though there are at least a couple of fans not happy about the Ticats points and STH benefits.
http://forums.cfl.ca/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=102836

Someone should point this out to argomAnia.
She might not want to jump ship after reading this.

[Will]

My price to renew in Hamilton is $676.

No thanks

[AngeloV]

My price to renew in Hamilton is $676.

No thanks

Add approximately $30 per game for gas and parking, that adds up.

[Will]

Add approximately $30 per game for gas and parking, that adds up.

My parking pass in Hamilton cost $154 for the entire season.

[AngeloV]

My parking pass in Hamilton cost $154 for the entire season.

So 15 a game. That is steep. There is so much parking a short walk from the stadium for $5-10. I only pay 10 to park for Argos home games.

[ArgoGabe22]

So 15 a game. That is steep. There is so much parking a short walk from the stadium for $5-10. I only pay 10 to park for Argos home games.

I parked for free, three blocks away somewhere in the neighbourhood. No smashed windows and nothing was stolen, which is always a plus.

[R.J]

My price to renew in Hamilton is $676.

No thanks
That's with the parking pass included correct ?

[Will]

That's with the parking pass included correct ?

It does, though I didn't realize it until you mentioned it. I paid for my pass separately this year.

[Neely2005]

Season Ticket prices are being Frozen, No decrease:

http://us11.campaign-archive2.com/?u=419a4a2db0b6526a856c41a88&id=376ccb1e5c&e=e0a4147c95

[1971GreyCup]

Message from Michael Copeland delivered to ST holders. Included many new ideas first mentioned here. Review of total football operations has started, no deadline given.

[R.J]

Got the email as well. Not going to lie, I'm a little disappointed the prices aren't being adjusted, but there will be benefits next season that we've seen in the past and with other teams.

[Mightygoose]

Agreed on the disappointment of no reduction but that was expectations based on the last survey. Looking forward to see the perks especially the merchandise discount and fan day. Hopefully many more to come.

[Downtownfan]

I did not expect a roll back in prices, honestly. A freeze is not bad, and IIRC, most people were pretty happy with the pricing/selection for season's seats when they were revealed originally. As for the rest of the stuff, I am really glad the ticket exchange is back (was it available this year?), and will wait to see some of the other "perks". I think many of us are so sorely disappointed in this season because expectations were very high coming in (in terms of off the field matters), and relatively high on the field (I know that many people had doubts about the team, but it certainly did not look as bad going in as it did coming out). The killer, of course, was the attendance, which I had hoped (and we had been lead to believe somewhat) was going to be very good, with some expectation of sellouts. That Ottawa game after the home opener was SUCH a downer.

But, I will say that I think with the long-term ownership stability, an unquestionable better venue, and some lowered expectations, things are are not as bad as they seem right now, and are starting to look better for next year. Copeland clearly is listening the the season seat holders, as this email indicates, and maybe there will be other improvements as well, both on the field (have to be) and off. Well, I can only hope...

[Will]

Got the email as well. Not going to lie, I'm a little disappointed the prices aren't being adjusted, but there will be benefits next season that we've seen in the past and with other teams.

I am disappointed with the lack of price reduction. Not from my own perspective, but simply because I feel that the casual fan of which the Argos need approximately 10-12 k of aren't willing to pay the current prices.

[ArgoGabe22]

I am disappointed with the lack of price reduction. Not from my own perspective, but simply because I feel that the casual fan of which the Argos need approximately 10-12 k of aren't willing to pay the current prices.

I'm the same way. I think cheaper prices will help fill up the stadium but I don't necessarily believe prices should've been slashed. Except for maybe the most expensive seats and if they simplified the different price points and condensed the areas, making less options.

If anyone seriously thinks their section is too much, downgrade to the next price point and you'll still have a good seat. I was shocked to hear how much I had to pay to watch the Ticats this season. My exact same seat at BMO was almost double at THF.

[moeajram]

my biggest concern is that a lot of people are going to movee to the side where the benches due to the sun, i sat on the side that the sun faces this year, and it was very hard to enjoy the game in the heat and so hard to see the game when the sun is in your eyes. The other thing is people are just going to buy the cheaper seats and move and sit where ever they want, which i thought happened this year.

[R.J]

I am disappointed with the lack of price reduction. Not from my own perspective, but simply because I feel that the casual fan of which the Argos need approximately 10-12 k of aren't willing to pay the current prices.
It's two things for me - #1. My seat was way too expensive to sit at the 25 yard line IMO. For a comparison: I'm only paying $26 more to sit between the 45's in Hamilton. And #2. Family section should be cheaper. $300 for season ticket and $35 for singles may be a bit much for a family of 3-5.

my biggest concern is that a lot of people are going to movee to the side where the benches due to the sun, i sat on the side that the sun faces this year, and it was very hard to enjoy the game in the heat and so hard to see the game when the sun is in your eyes. The other thing is people are just going to buy the cheaper seats and move and sit where ever they want, which i thought happened this year.
Yeah, the heat and sun was a bit much this season, I could see a lot of people moving to the West Side - I may be one of 'em.

[Mightygoose]

It's two things for me - #1. My seat was way too expensive to sit at the 25 yard line IMO. For a comparison: I'm only paying $26 more to sit between the 45's in Hamilton. And #2. Family section should be cheaper. $300 for season ticket and $35 for singles may be a bit much for a family of 3-5.

Yeah, the heat and sun was a bit much this season, I could see a lot of people moving to the West Side - I may be one of 'em.

Yeah. Hopefully the schedule can help alleviate some of the concerns on the east side.

As long as there are no matinees before Labour Day, the sun shouldn't be as much of a factor.

[R.J]

Shoot, didn't mean to imply that it was just my seats I was concerned about, the overall price points and where you are in the stadium are important.
For $700 or more, I think you should sit between the 45's. From 45-30 or 25: $500 max IMO, 25 - front of endzone: max $350, etc. Endzone seating in the South may also be a bit high.

Funny thing is, CFL fans want the League to be seen as "big time", and yet complain when ticket prices are high lol.

[moeajram]

Shoot, didn't mean to imply that it was just my seats I was concerned about, the overall price points and where you are in the stadium are important.
For $700 or more, I think you should sit between the 45's. From 45-30 or 25: $500 max IMO, 25 - front of endzone: max $350, etc. Endzone seating in the South may also be a bit high.

Funny thing is, CFL fans want the League to be seen as "big time", and yet complain when ticket prices are high lol.
I believe my final year at the rogers center i was pay 369 for 20 yard line in the 200 section, last year i was in 105 and the seats were 449 which was near the 20 yard line. They need to have a more of a section in each price point for example maybe if they had 10 price points, they can open up the sections and offer a great section of seats to the customers. We have to remember that Toronto has so many options for the sporting fans unlike the other 8 teams in the league. I remember the Toronto Rock use to have a huge season ticket fan base as soon as they increased the price a lot of people bailed out on them.

[AngeloV]

I believe my final year at the rogers center i was pay 369 for 20 yard line in the 200 section, last year i was in 105 and the seats were 449 which was near the 20 yard line. They need to have a more of a section in each price point for example maybe if they had 10 price points, they can open up the sections and offer a great section of seats to the customers. We have to remember that Toronto has so many options for the sporting fans unlike the other 8 teams in the league. I remember the Toronto Rock use to have a huge season ticket fan base as soon as they increased the price a lot of people bailed out on them.

I've mentioned this before, but I think there are just too many price points. There should be a max of 5 price points, and then they need to hold back a couple of sections on each side for family seating (partnering up with a grocery chain, 7/11, McDonalds...whatever, but make those sections cheaper as long as they are bought from the company they are partnering with.

As far as your $369 ticket last season at the dome, I paid $369 to sit in sec 231 on the goal line. I now sit in 227 at BMO, 10 yard line for $199. There are deals if you chose to take advantage of them.

[R.J]

I believe my final year at the rogers center i was pay 369 for 20 yard line in the 200 section, last year i was in 105 and the seats were 449 which was near the 20 yard line. They need to have a more of a section in each price point for example maybe if they had 10 price points, they can open up the sections and offer a great section of seats to the customers. We have to remember that Toronto has so many options for the sporting fans unlike the other 8 teams in the league. I remember the Toronto Rock use to have a huge season ticket fan base as soon as they increased the price a lot of people bailed out on them.
I agree about the prices points - way too many. Less is more IMO, and going with around 8 could work. Ticats also have a lot of price points - I sometimes think that TanenBELL, Copeland, and Moore just looked at the Ticats and decided to try and emulate them (minus the benefits this season lol).

The Rock stopped winning and the allure essentially left, still a great gameday IMO, and they have great ticket price points. I also think the NLL and the Ontario Raiders owner (Fritz) made a mistake when the team sold: should have sold to MLSE instead of the Watters Group - look at Calgary since they were sold to CSEC, the crowds and sponsorship grew significantly. Jamie Dawick has been a fantastic owner though, the Rock are the only team in the NLL with their own practice facility, and he used to pay $30-50k to TSN for each game they aired, but IMO he's taken them as far as he can, and the Rock could unquestionably use MLSE resources, corporate support, potential media attention, and hopefully have more games on TV and radio.

[Ron]

I am disappointed with the lack of price reduction. Not from my own perspective, but simply because I feel that the casual fan of which the Argos need approximately 10-12 k of aren't willing to pay the current prices.

You forgot to add the word "yet" at the end.

Sadly. Argo prices are not far off prices in other CFL cities. Plus the last thing they want to be seen doing is devaluing the product so quickly. In their letter they state that they doubled the ST's and increased attendance significantly. They already previously stated they significantly increased revenues compared to the past.

So clearly they are attempting to have crowds grow into current pricing than to lower pricing and have to make the same effort to sell the tix.

Anyways. Good letter from the ownership that should cut down on the doom and gloom.

[Argos1983]

Clearly, they are not reading the market correctly still, I will eat my hat (not literally, as I like my hat :)) if they have more STH next year than this year -- this season ticket base will drop significantly next year, I highly doubt that any significant amount of "new STH" are joining the fray after this year, what about the product would entice you to buy seats in 2017 if you didn't have seats in 2016? a few perks that are way less buzzworthy than last off-season's idea of a "new stadium", better atmosphere, chance to get GC tickets, almost all of which did not come to pass in any well publicized way other than that the new stadium was better for football than the last one. The press was all negative about it being empty (why do I need to buy seats in advance again? and the GC thing was screwed up badly and needed fixing almost immediately which pissed many people off), based on the many people I've spoken to (collectively about 100STs), many existing STH are going to be dropping seats that they thought would have some added value based on the move to BMO, and many simply are just not renewing at all as the perceived value is not there for their entertainment dollar --- in Toronto as someone rightly mentioned above, there are just too many options out there to spend one's entertainment money on - if there is no "buzz" about this being an "event", people just won't go in this city....the product unfortunately will not just sell itself, as much as us CFL lovers would like to believe......the fact that they are not marketing the crap out of this to families and such is beyond me --- you should be able to buy a ticket for $10 or less to take a kid under 14 (?) to a game, get young people into your product, before they become older and jaded about the the state of the CFL and whether they perceive it to be a "second rate" league compared to the NFL (whether we like it or not, Toronto has a "major league" mentality), as once that mindset kicks in, it is hard to change. Again, I'm a CFL fan, but I am around College aged kids all the time and we actually had the Grey Cup come to our school recently, and literally there was no buzz whatsoever to even go and take a picture with the trophy this past week -- I literally just walked up and could spend as much time as I wanted with it (which was quite cool frankly!!) and almost no one was even bothering with this important piece of Canadian history right in front of them, it was quite sad actually, the kids were having more fun throwing a football around than actually learning anything about the CFL (no one I spoke to could even name a current Argos player) -- there was literally a table there with a chart explaining the rule differences between the CFL and the NFL....ummm, if our league is so awesome to begin with why are we having to teach people the rules from a 100+ year old league in relation to one that is only 50+ years old....it's because people aren't actively engaged in their product, the kids liked "Football", just not this type of football, it was really sad for someone who is a long time CFL lover to see......

[PullTogether73]

Clearly, they are not reading the market correctly still, I will eat my hat (not literally, as I like my hat :)) if they have more STH next year than this year -- this season ticket base will drop significantly next year, I highly doubt that any significant amount of "new STH" are joining the fray after this year, what about the product would entice you to buy seats in 2017 if you didn't have seats in 2016? a few perks that are way less buzzworthy than last off-season's idea of a "new stadium", better atmosphere, chance to get GC tickets, almost all of which did not come to pass in any well publicized way other than that the new stadium was better for football than the last one. The press was all negative about it being empty (why do I need to buy seats in advance again? and the GC thing was screwed up badly and needed fixing almost immediately which pissed many people off), based on the many people I've spoken to (collectively about 100STs), many existing STH are going to be dropping seats that they thought would have some added value based on the move to BMO, and many simply are just not renewing at all as the perceived value is not there for their entertainment dollar --- in Toronto as someone rightly mentioned above, there are just too many options out there to spend one's entertainment money on - if there is no "buzz" about this being an "event", people just won't go in this city....the product unfortunately will not just sell itself, as much as us CFL lovers would like to believe......the fact that they are not marketing the crap out of this to families and such is beyond me --- you should be able to buy a ticket for $10 or less to take a kid under 14 (?) to a game, get young people into your product, before they become older and jaded about the the state of the CFL and whether they perceive it to be a "second rate" league compared to the NFL (whether we like it or not, Toronto has a "major league" mentality), as once that mindset kicks in, it is hard to change. Again, I'm a CFL fan, but I am around College aged kids all the time and we actually had the Grey Cup come to our school recently, and literally there was no buzz whatsoever to even go and take a picture with the trophy this past week -- I literally just walked up and could spend as much time as I wanted with it (which was quite cool frankly!!) and almost no one was even bothering with this important piece of Canadian history right in front of them, it was quite sad actually, the kids were having more fun throwing a football around than actually learning anything about the CFL (no one I spoke to could even name a current Argos player) -- there was literally a table there with a chart explaining the rule differences between the CFL and the NFL....ummm, if our league is so awesome to begin with why are we having to teach people the rules from a 100+ year old league in relation to one that is only 50+ years old....it's because people aren't actively engaged in their product, the kids liked "Football", just not this type of football, it was really sad for someone who is a long time CFL lover to see......

Why do you not use paragraphs or line breaks in your very long posts?

Also, for correctness, the NFL became the NFL in 1922. The CFL became the CFL in 1958. The NFL is the league that is almost 100 years old while the CFL is the one that is a bit older than 50 years.

[1971GreyCup]

Why do you not use paragraphs or line breaks in your very long posts?

Also, for correctness, the NFL became the NFL in 1922. The CFL became the CFL in 1958. The NFL is the league that is almost 100 years old while the CFL is the one that is a bit older than 50 years.

Splittings hairs??

[ArgoGabe22]

Why do you not use paragraphs or line breaks in your very long posts?

Also, for correctness, the NFL became the NFL in 1922. The CFL became the CFL in 1958. The NFL is the league that is almost 100 years old while the CFL is the one that is a bit older than 50 years.

While true, Canadian football has its origins much much older than 50 years. Some would say the CFL was pretty much in existence when there was ORFU and the other leagues like the IRFU. It just wasn't called the CFL until 1958.

[1971GreyCup]

Clearly, they are not reading the market correctly still, I will eat my hat (not literally, as I like my hat :)) if they have more STH next year than this year -- this season ticket base will drop significantly next year, I highly doubt that any significant amount of "new STH" are joining the fray after this year, what about the product would entice you to buy seats in 2017 if you didn't have seats in 2016? a few perks that are way less buzzworthy than last off-season's idea of a "new stadium", better atmosphere, chance to get GC tickets, almost all of which did not come to pass in any well publicized way other than that the new stadium was better for football than the last one. The press was all negative about it being empty (why do I need to buy seats in advance again? and the GC thing was screwed up badly and needed fixing almost immediately which pissed many people off), based on the many people I've spoken to (collectively about 100STs), many existing STH are going to be dropping seats that they thought would have some added value based on the move to BMO, and many simply are just not renewing at all as the perceived value is not there for their entertainment dollar --- in Toronto as someone rightly mentioned above, there are just too many options out there to spend one's entertainment money on - if there is no "buzz" about this being an "event", people just won't go in this city....the product unfortunately will not just sell itself, as much as us CFL lovers would like to believe......the fact that they are not marketing the crap out of this to families and such is beyond me --- you should be able to buy a ticket for $10 or less to take a kid under 14 (?) to a game, get young people into your product, before they become older and jaded about the the state of the CFL and whether they perceive it to be a "second rate" league compared to the NFL (whether we like it or not, Toronto has a "major league" mentality), as once that mindset kicks in, it is hard to change. Again, I'm a CFL fan, but I am around College aged kids all the time and we actually had the Grey Cup come to our school recently, and literally there was no buzz whatsoever to even go and take a picture with the trophy this past week -- I literally just walked up and could spend as much time as I wanted with it (which was quite cool frankly!!) and almost no one was even bothering with this important piece of Canadian history right in front of them, it was quite sad actually, the kids were having more fun throwing a football around than actually learning anything about the CFL (no one I spoke to could even name a current Argos player) -- there was literally a table there with a chart explaining the rule differences between the CFL and the NFL....ummm, if our league is so awesome to begin with why are we having to teach people the rules from a 100+ year old league in relation to one that is only 50+ years old....it's because people aren't actively engaged in their product, the kids liked "Football", just not this type of football, it was really sad for someone who is a long time CFL lover to see......

I had a similar experience with my son's high school. I offered to sponsor "Huddle Up". There was no interest at all from the school even though there are a number of CFL players who live locally.

Students have no knowledge or interest in the CFL, but find the NFL cool. My son's teacher openly challenged my son's contention that the SkyDome was built for the Blue Jays AND Argos. Fortunately my son's knowledge is greater than this person in authority.

I remember a similar situation 35 years ago, but there was a baseline of Argos/CFL.

Even among high school and local rep football teams, a number of the players have a disdain for CFL players. I can trace that back to the parents who openly trash the league. Doesn't bode well for the future of the league in the CFL.

[Argos1983]

Sorry for my lack of appropriate punctuation and spacing.....when I rant its more a stream of consciousness (or BS), kind of thing..... ;)

As for the history, I was just referring to the fact of over 100 years of Grey Cups vs 50 years or so of Super Bowls, the point was they've both been around a long time, those who who are interested in football in this country should know the basic differences by now....

[Shatto]

Argos 1983, makes an excellent point about inexpensive tickets for young people. Either through a sponsor, such as a grocery chain, as AngeloV suggested or directly from the organization. How about having local high school teams that have won a championship presented on field, before the game or at halftime - imagine their folks, relatives and friends would be pleased to be there to see that, especially if the can buy tickets at a reduced price. The team has to create a buzz and get bums on seats!! Copeland needs to be creative.

[PullTogether73]

Splittings hairs??

Being accurate.


Sorry for my lack of appropriate punctuation and spacing.....when I rant its more a stream of consciousness (or BS), kind of thing..... ;)

As for the history, I was just referring to the fact of over 100 years of Grey Cups vs 50 years or so of Super Bowls, the point was they've both been around a long time, those who who are interested in football in this country should know the basic differences by now....

I figured that's what you meant - just that it wasn't what you said.
Agreed that education of a long running sport tradition in this country should not be necessary.
Canadians invented this game after all and Americans changed it to suit their stadiums (afaik).

I don't understand what is so shameful about being Canadian and appreciating Canadian institutions and traditions.
My parents came from a small country in South America. They made sure to take me to Maple Leafs, Argonauts, Metro-Croatia (soccer) games as a child and expose me to Canadian sporting institutions. I've been a fan ever since.
Today it's soccer and cricket. That's fine, but...?

[paulwoods13]

Not that this really matters, but I'm surprised by how many people were surprised to learn how hot it is on the east side in afternoons and early evenings. The same conditions applied to a good chunk of the Rogers Centre east side when the roof was open on a sunny day. Granted the RC is cavernous enough that some shadows emerge as the sun moves, but I stopped sitting on the east side years ago because it was way too hot and sunny at times. I hope this does not become a serious impediment to selling tickets over there as the years go on. I would not argue against cheaper tickets on that side, to encourage fuller stands there. And lots of evening games.

[Will]

Not that this really matters, but I'm surprised by how many people were surprised to learn how hot it is on the east side in afternoons and early evenings. The same conditions applied to a good chunk of the Rogers Centre east side when the roof was open on a sunny day. Granted the RC is cavernous enough that some shadows emerge as the sun moves, but I stopped sitting on the east side years ago because it was way too hot and sunny at times. I hope this does not become a serious impediment to selling tickets over there as the years go on. I would not argue against cheaper tickets on that side, to encourage fuller stands there. And lots of evening games.

Is it an issue for other teams in the league or in other sports or is it merely another excuse for the Toronto marketplace?

[S.A.C.]

...we actually had the Grey Cup come to our school recently...I was going to ask if anyone was surprised or confused by the inscription -- "Amateur Rugby"?! -- but I guess from your description almost no one bothered to look at it.

[Argos1983]

I was going to ask if anyone was surprised or confused by the inscription -- "Amateur Rugby"?! -- but I guess from your description almost no one bothered to look at it.

Sadly no one was looking that closely....

[Neely2005]

You forgot to add the word "yet" at the end.

Sadly. Argo prices are not far off prices in other CFL cities. Plus the last thing they want to be seen doing is devaluing the product so quickly. In their letter they state that they doubled the ST's and increased attendance significantly. They already previously stated they significantly increased revenues compared to the past.

So clearly they are attempting to have crowds grow into current pricing than to lower pricing and have to make the same effort to sell the tix.

Anyways. Good letter from the ownership that should cut down on the doom and gloom.

Does anyone else think that season ticket numbers are going down next season?

No Grey Cup

Team was terrible in 2016

Traded away the first overall pick for an average QB

BMO Field novelty has worn off

People know that there will be lots of tickets available for every game

In season ticket pricing promotions

Alienated some of the existing season ticket holders

Some season ticket holders increased their number of season tickets from the Rogers Centre and will now decrease the number back down

[Neely2005]

Clearly, they are not reading the market correctly still, I will eat my hat (not literally, as I like my hat :)) if they have more STH next year than this year -- this season ticket base will drop significantly next year, I highly doubt that any significant amount of "new STH" are joining the fray after this year, what about the product would entice you to buy seats in 2017 if you didn't have seats in 2016? a few perks that are way less buzzworthy than last off-season's idea of a "new stadium", better atmosphere, chance to get GC tickets, almost all of which did not come to pass in any well publicized way other than that the new stadium was better for football than the last one. The press was all negative about it being empty (why do I need to buy seats in advance again? and the GC thing was screwed up badly and needed fixing almost immediately which pissed many people off), based on the many people I've spoken to (collectively about 100STs), many existing STH are going to be dropping seats that they thought would have some added value based on the move to BMO, and many simply are just not renewing at all as the perceived value is not there for their entertainment dollar --- in Toronto as someone rightly mentioned above, there are just too many options out there to spend one's entertainment money on - if there is no "buzz" about this being an "event", people just won't go in this city....the product unfortunately will not just sell itself, as much as us CFL lovers would like to believe......the fact that they are not marketing the crap out of this to families and such is beyond me --- you should be able to buy a ticket for $10 or less to take a kid under 14 (?) to a game, get young people into your product, before they become older and jaded about the the state of the CFL and whether they perceive it to be a "second rate" league compared to the NFL (whether we like it or not, Toronto has a "major league" mentality), as once that mindset kicks in, it is hard to change. Again, I'm a CFL fan, but I am around College aged kids all the time and we actually had the Grey Cup come to our school recently, and literally there was no buzz whatsoever to even go and take a picture with the trophy this past week -- I literally just walked up and could spend as much time as I wanted with it (which was quite cool frankly!!) and almost no one was even bothering with this important piece of Canadian history right in front of them, it was quite sad actually, the kids were having more fun throwing a football around than actually learning anything about the CFL (no one I spoke to could even name a current Argos player) -- there was literally a table there with a chart explaining the rule differences between the CFL and the NFL....ummm, if our league is so awesome to begin with why are we having to teach people the rules from a 100+ year old league in relation to one that is only 50+ years old....it's because people aren't actively engaged in their product, the kids liked "Football", just not this type of football, it was really sad for someone who is a long time CFL lover to see......

Well I guess I'm not the only one who thinks that season ticket numbers are going down next season.

[S.A.C.]

http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/video/how-to-fix-a-sinking-ship-in-toronto~987914When he mentions needing the minor league hockey/baseball approach targeting groups sales, the only relevant example I can think of would be the Marlies. I don't pay much attention to them, but I was under the impression that they've usually had only small crowds except for 2 or 3 times a year when they have 11 a.m. weekday games and arrange for a few thousand school kids to be there.
http://www.marlies.ca/tickets/SchoolGroups.asp

I don't understand how that could apply to the Argos, since it's not realistic to suggest having a weekday game start at 11 a.m.!

[Neely2005]

Being accurate.



I figured that's what you meant - just that it wasn't what you said.
Agreed that education of a long running sport tradition in this country should not be necessary.
Canadians invented this game after all and Americans changed it to suit their stadiums (afaik).

I don't understand what is so shameful about being Canadian and appreciating Canadian institutions and traditions.
My parents came from a small country in South America. They made sure to take me to Maple Leafs, Argonauts, Metro-Croatia (soccer) games as a child and expose me to Canadian sporting institutions. I've been a fan ever since.
Today it's soccer and cricket. That's fine, but...?

As I've said before Canadians (especially Torontonians) love to run down anything that's Canadian. It doesn't matter if it's the CFL, BlackBerry, Canadian Film and TV...

[Neely2005]

Is it an issue for other teams in the league or in other sports or is it merely another excuse for the Toronto marketplace?

Not all stadiums face the same direction so it may be minimized at other stadiums.

[AngeloV]

Why do you not use paragraphs or line breaks in your very long posts?

.

I'd much rather have poor sentence structure than crappy subject matter. I'm good with his posts.



Even among high school and local rep football teams, a number of the players have a disdain for CFL players. I can trace that back to the parents who openly trash the league. Doesn't bode well for the future of the league in the CFL.

And I'll go back to what I have been saying for years. Society today equates quality with revenue and salaries. Really is sad. Since many players in the NFL make more money than an entire teams cap in the CFL, they look down upon it.


Well I guess I'm not the only one who thinks that season ticket numbers are going down next season.

I think they will increase again. IMO, they haven't even scratched the surface in corporate and group sales. Everything just seemed so rushed in 2016.

[Neely2005]

I'd much rather have poor sentence structure than crappy subject matter. I'm good with his posts.



And I'll go back to what I have been saying for years. Society today equates quality with revenue and salaries. Really is sad. Since many players in the NFL make more money than an entire teams cap in the CFL, they look down upon it.



I think they will increase again. IMO, they haven't even scratched the surface in corporate and group sales. Everything just seemed so rushed in 2016.

I don't see how that's going to be enough to make up for the losses:


Does anyone else think that season ticket numbers are going down next season?

No Grey Cup

Team was terrible in 2016

Traded away the first overall pick for an average QB

BMO Field novelty has worn off

People know that there will be lots of tickets available for every game

In season ticket pricing promotions

Alienated some of the existing season ticket holders

Some season ticket holders increased their number of season tickets from the Rogers Centre and will now decrease the number back down

[paulwoods13]

My comments in bold below.


Does anyone else think that season ticket numbers are going down next season?

No Grey Cup How many of this year's sales were predicated on first call on Grey Cup tickets? I bet not many.

Team was terrible in 2016 No doubt about that. It's not necessarily a huge inhibitor but it increases the sales challenge for sure.

Traded away the first overall pick for an average QB How many potential new buyers will even be aware of that? You have to be a pretty serious fan already to know that level of detail, IMO. Not sure they're aiming solely or even mostly at established Argo fans. Need to broaden the base to new customers IMO.

BMO Field novelty has worn off I guess so, altho it used to take 2-3 years for novelty to wear off. It's still a fabulous venue, and we know there are literally millions of people in the area who have not set foot inside. We will no doubt lose some of this year's customers for whom the novelty has worn off, but gain some new ones who've never been there before.

People know that there will be lots of tickets available for every game Certainly can't argue that point, yet, and probably for the next 3-4 years.

In season ticket pricing promotions I personally didn't see that as hugely aggravating, but some STHs no doubt did and will be expecting it to happen again.

Alienated some of the existing season ticket holders No question, based on complaints on this forum.

Some season ticket holders increased their number of season tickets from the Rogers Centre and will now decrease the number back down Yeah, but no way of knowing if it is a material number.

[PullTogether73]

When he mentions needing the minor league hockey/baseball approach targeting groups sales, the only relevant example I can think of would be the Marlies. I don't pay much attention to them, but I was under the impression that they've usually had only small crowds except for 2 or 3 times a year when they have 11 a.m. weekday games and arrange for a few thousand school kids to be there.
http://www.marlies.ca/tickets/SchoolGroups.asp

I don't understand how that could apply to the Argos, since it's not realistic to suggest having a weekday game start at 11 a.m.!

Funny that you bring this up.
I was at the Mississauga Steelheads game this past Wednesday - one of their two mid-week 11:00 am school day games held each year (there were 4 of these games on Wednesday in the OHL btw, not just the Steelheads).
While the arena was the most full I've seen it since I started going to games last year (obviously arranged to include as many schools as possible), the noise level was easily the loudest I have ever heard.

While the Argonauts cannot have a mid-week day game, perhaps a Thursday or Friday evening game would be possible to bus in school groups after school for a 7:00 pm start?
A great way to get them while they're young I say.

[paulwoods13]

While the Argonauts cannot have a mid-week day game, perhaps a Thursday or Friday evening game would be possible to bus in school groups after school for a 7:00 pm start?
A great way to get them while they're young I say.

It would create a lot of resentment among existing fans who say they can't get downtown that early on a workday. That complaint has been registered here before. So potentially attract a new generation of kids but tick off a portion of your existing fanbase. Tough call.

[doubleblue]

Not that this really matters, but I'm surprised by how many people were surprised to learn how hot it is on the east side in afternoons and early evenings. The same conditions applied to a good chunk of the Rogers Centre east side when the roof was open on a sunny day. Granted the RC is cavernous enough that some shadows emerge as the sun moves, but I stopped sitting on the east side years ago because it was way too hot and sunny at times. I hope this does not become a serious impediment to selling tickets over there as the years go on. I would not argue against cheaper tickets on that side, to encourage fuller stands there. And lots of evening games.

I think the lower East Side seats could become a real problem to fill on afternoon games in the Summer. They will only fool people once. I remember walking around the first pre-season game before and at half time to different locations to check things out. It would have been unbearable for me to sit there on hot humid days. Later in the fall it would be enjoyable on a sunny cool day. So I agree evening games only until mid September. I would think that would be easy for Management to clue in on that issue.

[paulwoods13]

I think the lower East Side seats could become a real problem to fill on afternoon games in the Summer. They will only fool people once. I remember walking around the first pre-season game before and at half time to different locations to check things out. It would have been unbearable for me to sit there on hot humid days. Later in the fall it would be enjoyable on a sunny cool day. So I agree evening games only until mid September. I would think that would be easy for Management to clue in on that issue.

Right, but did you ever sit on the lower east side in RC? Wasn't it kind of the same thing?

Tim Hortons Field has the same orientation and it's also unbearably hot on its east side for afternoon games in summer and early fall. Yet they have sold out for two-plus years.

Interestingly, on this forum most of those who posted about their responses to the team's survey on game days/times supported Saturdays at 4 o'clock -- certainly prime time for heat in the east stands. It's only a small sample but do all of us who voted for that sit on the west side?

[Shipyard]

Right, but did you ever sit on the lower east side in RC? Wasn't it kind of the same thing?

Tim Hortons Field has the same orientation and it's also unbearably hot on its east side for afternoon games in summer and early fall. Yet they have sold out for two-plus years.

Interestingly, on this forum most of those who posted about their responses to the team's survey on game days/times supported Saturdays at 4 o'clock -- certainly prime time for heat in the east stands. It's only a small sample but do all of us who voted for that sit on the west side?

i would be in this camp:

sat 7pm for summer
sat 4pm for after labour day

[S.A.C.]

It would create a lot of resentment among existing fans who say they can't get downtown that early on a workday...And I doubt TSN and their advertisers would like the idea of a 'school day' game. I assume most minor league hockey and baseball teams don't have their games televised, and having one or two of their 40 (or 81 or whatever it is) home games a year on a weekday morning/afternoon isn't much of a problem for them.
Not that it's going to happen, but making the visiting B.C. Lions play at what would feel like 8 a.m. to them is an amusing thought.

[Mightygoose]

And I doubt TSN and their advertisers would like the idea of a 'school day' game. I assume most minor league hockey and baseball teams don't have their games televised, and having one or two of their 40 (or 81 or whatever it is) home games a year on a weekday morning/afternoon isn't much of a problem for them.
Not that it's going to happen, but making the visiting B.C. Lions play at what would feel like 8 a.m. to them is an amusing thought.

I would be OK if they make the pre season game mid-week during the day. Those are not always televised plus it's in early June so it's good to get the school kids out.

Give STHs an option to donate them and get a credit for the unused game.

[argoscott]

Howbout implementing a rule were the coach cant release our best receivers?

[ArgoGabe22]

Howbout implementing a rule were the coach cant release our best receivers?

Last I saw, both Shaw and Spencer are still with the team.

[AngeloV]

Howbout implementing a rule were the coach cant release our best receivers?

Shaw was a 1,000 yard d receiver this year. None of the guys you have a man crush on have come close, and all failed to make an impact elsewhere.

[gilthethrill]

Last I saw, both Shaw and Spencer are still with the team.

I think what scott meant was for the coach not being able to release players that don't want to be an Argonaut.

[PullTogether73]

And I doubt TSN and their advertisers would like the idea of a 'school day' game. I assume most minor league hockey and baseball teams don't have their games televised, and having one or two of their 40 (or 81 or whatever it is) home games a year on a weekday morning/afternoon isn't much of a problem for them.
Not that it's going to happen, but making the visiting B.C. Lions play at what would feel like 8 a.m. to them is an amusing thought.

????
Who suggested having a "school day" game in the CFL?
My suggestion was bussing school kids to BMO Field for a Thursday or Friday night game that starts at 7:00 pm.
Paul pointed out that some fans may find a 7:00 pm start too early to get to the stadium.
There is no suggestion of an earlier start time.

[S.A.C.]

...My suggestion was bussing school kids to BMO Field for a Thursday or Friday night game that starts at 7:00 pm... They're not 'school kids' anymore by 7:00 pm. They're at home and probably not going anywhere unless it's with their parents.
I would be OK if they make the pre season game mid-week during the day. Those are not always televised plus it's in early June so it's good to get the school kids out.

Give STHs an option to donate them and get a credit for the unused game.Now that sounds like an idea they might actually consider if they could fill the stadium with a big crowd of kids, although I suppose some here would be p.o.'d at not being able to attend the pre-season game, and it might be a little warm on the field at high noon during that time of year.

[ArgoGabe22]

They're not 'school kids' anymore by 7:00 pm. They're at home and probably not going anywhere unless it's with their parents.Now that sounds like an idea they might actually consider if they could fill the stadium with a big crowd of kids, although I suppose some here would be p.o.'d at not being able to attend the pre-season game, and it might be a little warm on the field at high noon during that time of year.

This has been done before. Question is, how many of those kids returned?

Having schoolkids at 7pm game is doable, as long as its organized. A youth football team will actually organize it and will be more committed to attending then just giving them to a group of random kids with no information on the game, transportation etc. presented them

[PullTogether73]

This has been done before. Question is, how many of those kids returned?

Having schoolkids at 7pm game is doable, as long as its organized. A youth football team will actually organize it and will be more committed to attending then just giving them to a group of random kids with no information on the game, transportation etc. presented them

No, simply giving tickets to school kids is not how to do it.
It should be organized as a "field trip" for lack of a better term.
A class at a school gets bussed down to the stadium together. The school could organize the bus, the Argonauts could provide a ticket to the game and a voucher for a food item and a drink for each student. Teachers and parent volunteers supervise the kids while on the trip.

The idea here is to get kids who might not otherwise be interested in CFL football to become interested in CFL football.
We always talk about getting the "casual" fan to come out to the games. Casual fans can come in all ages. Having youth football teams attend as guests is not getting casual fans out to the games. These young people are already interested in football. They don't need to be exposed to it.

Again, I refer to my own experience in my youth where I didn't play football until high school, but became interested in football earlier on because I was exposed to it by my parents.

[Argo57]

Does anyone else think that season ticket numbers are going down next season?

No Grey Cup

Team was terrible in 2016

Traded away the first overall pick for an average QB

BMO Field novelty has worn off

People know that there will be lots of tickets available for every game

In season ticket pricing promotions

Alienated some of the existing season ticket holders

Some season ticket holders increased their number of season tickets from the Rogers Centre and will now decrease the number back down

Neely, all valid points IMO.
I know several people who won't be renewing (due to many factors you listed), my concern is absolutely no momentum was created last season and in fact the reverse happened.
Whether or not the Grey Cup was in T.O. this season didn't factor into my season ticket purchase.
Hopefully as Angelo pointed out Argo ownership has a plan with corporate partners etc to get people to the games.
The main issue this season was the bad on field product, what casual fan watching on TV would be inspired to purchase any ticket package heading into 2017 (not many I would suspect).
I have pretty much decided I will renew for 2017 but may dumb down my costs a little.
Similar onfield performance in 2017 could spell long term trouble.

[argoscott]

Shaw was a 1,000 yard d receiver this year. None of the guys you have a man crush on have come close, and all failed to make an impact elsewhere.

All 4 receivers were picked up already...btw your mamma wears army boots, having said that, I never said Shaw and Spencer were no good, and FYI you are in the minority of Argo fans (not here perhaps) but Argo fans in general, I do not know of one that agrees with releasing the big 3, or even one that agreed with bringing in Willy

:)

[argoscott]

Last I saw, both Shaw and Spencer are still with the team.

So you agree with the coach also that releasing the receivers was the way to go, I see

[argoscott]

I think what scott meant was for the coach not being able to release players that don't want to be an Argonaut.

So you think our 4 receivers that were released did not want to be Argos?

[argoscott]

I stated a fact that the coach`s decision to release the 4 receivers was a bad one, it is the majority opinion of Argo fans in general, but obviously not here, I am sensing hostility, I guess I am slow on the take, I get it, dont let the door hit me on the way out. :love:

[AngeloV]

All 4 receivers were picked up already...btw your mamma wears army boots, having said that, I never said Shaw and Spencer were no good, and FYI you are in the minority of Argo fans (not here perhaps) but Argo fans in general, I do not know of one that agrees with releasing the big 3, or even one that agreed with bringing in Willy

:).

They were picked up, but none contributed. Elliott, was hardly even targeted last week but the Cats. Gurley wasn't even in the line up for Winnipeg. Hazelton never dressed for Edmonton and I don't think anyone even raised an eyebrow over Bates being released. These guys are all free agents in February, and none of them did anything to make the Argos look like it was a bad move to release them.

As for you knowing what "Argos fans in general" feel, I really doubt that have a clue about it, same as me, and anyone else. Nobody knows as many Argos fans as it would take to know what the majority feel. It is quite possible that your friends that are Argos fans feel this way, but again, that doesn't mean the majority feel the same way.


I stated a fact that the coach`s decision to release the 4 receivers was a bad one, it is the majority opinion of Argo fans, but all I get is beat up, so I get the message I am not welcome her

Dude, it's not that you are not welcome here. But you really need to know the difference between fact and opinion. Just because you have a certain opinion doesn't make it fact.

[Will]

I stated a fact that the coach`s decision to release the 4 receivers was a bad one, it is the majority opinion of Argo fans, but all I get is beat up, so I get the message I am not welcome her


Why are so many people quick to assume that just because someone disagrees with them that their opinions aren't welcome?

[argoscott]

.

They were picked up, but none contributed. Elliott, was hardly even targeted last week but the Cats. Gurley wasn't even in the line up for Winnipeg. Hazelton never dressed for Edmonton and I don't think anyone even raised an eyebrow over Bates being released. These guys are all free agents in February, and none of them did anything to make the Argos look like it was a bad move to release them.

As for you knowing what "Argos fans in general" feel, I really doubt that have a clue about it, same as me, and anyone else. Nobody knows as many Argos fans as it would take to know what the majority feel. It is quite possible that your friends that are Argos fans feel this way, but again, that doesn't mean the majority feel the same way.

The majority of argo fans were sickened by the release of the receivers, not even debatable, btw you are one unfriendly SOB,not to mention your description of the success of the 4 receivers is inaccurate, they need time to develop chemistry, Elliot has done fine in Hamilton, Gurley had a great long pass, they have other receivers

[AngeloV]

The majority of argo fans were sickened by the release of the receivers, not even debatable, btw you are one unfriendly SOB

Once again, you are making the mistake of speaking for the majority of Argos fans that you don't even know. As far as me being an unfriendly SOB, well, I disagree...I'm very good.

[argoscott]

Once again, you are making the mistake of speaking for the majority of Argos fans that you don't even know. As far as me being an unfriendly SOB, well, I disagree...I'm very good.

I am not welcome here in your little club

[R.J]

I am not welcome here in your little club
If your an Argo/CFL fan, of course you are.

This isn't the first time I've heard something like this, not sure why this is becoming the norm, but just because someone disagrees with you it doesn't mean that you're not welcome.

[gilthethrill]

So you think our 4 receivers that were released did not want to be Argos?

Milanovich stated in his post game conference after that brutal, brutal loss to Montreal that some players did not want to be here. The next day those 4 players were cut. I think that says it all.

As others have stated, don't think that you are not wanted here on the forum. Look at Grey Dragon and I...we disagree on the Crossover format, but hey, it's just a matter of debate.

[argoscott]

If your an Argo/CFL fan, of course you are.

This isn't the first time I've heard something like this, not sure why this is becoming the norm, but just because someone disagrees with you it doesn't mean that you're not welcome.

Yes I realize I sounded like a cry baby, but my experience overall has been negative, more often than not my opinions here have mostly been met with sarcastic unfriendly replies . This has been my experience here over a couple years btw, I forgot my previous handle, but yes I guess I am a glutten for punishment, I find several other places more friendly, no not that everybody agrees with me...ON this case they do, I know of no argo fan outside of here that agrees with the coaches moves this year .. adios

[Argo57]

Why are so many people quick to assume that just because someone disagrees with them that their opinions aren't welcome?

I don't get it as well, while I know I'm always right I welcome diverse opinions!😀

[Argo57]

Let's be honest the season was a write off with the "Big 3" which many thought were overrated to begin with.
No doubt as the Argo season unravelled their collective attitudes deteriorated rather quickly and were shipped out.
My question was the timing of their releases and how long they actually put up with their crap.
Angelo's summary is spot on, they contributed little to nothing to their new teams.

[1971GreyCup]

Definitely two factions here on the sudden release of the four starting receivers. One side insists that they didn't contribute to the Argos, the other teams,were bad eggs and good riddance.

The other side, myself included, thought the decision was a bad short and intermediate decision. Certainly didn't improve the Argos down the stretch. The Argos QB situation was exaserbated without these receivers to throw to. Maybe a much needed diversion for management at a time when they realized the desperate Willy trade was a costly, flop.

As for their impact this year, I think they were insurance for their new teams down the stretch and more importantly more talent to bring to camp next year for depth of CFL experience. Their new teams will lose receivers to attrition. Argos's themselves will lose a couple more international and domestic receivers as well and could be bringing in all new receivers (with exception to Wylie) and a new QB.

Management didn't do themselves, or the next coach and GM any favours on this one!

I am pretty sure this site would be more fan friendly if the Argos were 16 - 2.

[paulwoods13]

Let's see how many of the "Big Four" (including Bates) are on CFL rosters come July 1. I'll be surprised if the number exceeds two, and think it is more likely zero or one.

[1971GreyCup]

I have to ask myself where were the "Big Four" haters at training camp or when the Argos were 4 -2?

When they were released, you said 'look no one wants them'! When they all signed quickly with superior teams that ran better offensives, you said 'they won't play'. When they played you said, 'look they aren't playing enough'. Now, they won't be in the CFL by July 1st. In the meantime, SM and JB remain without fault to you guys. Sheesh!

Mark Twain — 'Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.'

[Ron]

I have to ask myself where were the "Big Four" haters at training camp or when the Argos were 4 -2?

Mark Twain — 'Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.'

I've been complaining about those receivers making the QB's look bad for over a year.

[paulwoods13]

I have to ask myself where were the "Big Four" haters at training camp or when the Argos were 4 -2?

When they were released, you said 'look no one wants them'! When they all signed quickly with superior teams that ran better offensives, you said 'they won't play'. When they played you said, 'look they aren't playing enough'. Now, they won't be in the CFL by July 1st. In the meantime, SM and JB remain without fault to you guys. Sheesh!


Sheesh is right -- what does opinions that differ from yours on the merits of those receivers have to do with SM-JB?

[1971GreyCup]

Sheesh is right -- what does opinions that differ from yours on the merits of those receivers have to do with SM-JB?

SM/SB are great football guys.

This is one of their many big calls that = 2016 results. They provided the justifications for this drastic move that are often repeated here. Bad guys. No talent. Not team guys.

Who else do I point to when it comes to this disastrous move. I am sorry, this was a great move with tons of future upside!

[argolio]

Who else do I point to when it comes to this disastrous move. I am sorry, this was a great move with tons of future upside!Had little effect either way. We didn't win with them (except when Ray started) and we didn't win without them.

[S.A.C.]

No, simply giving tickets to school kids is not how to do it.
It should be organized as a "field trip" for lack of a better term.
A class at a school gets bussed down to the stadium together...Yeah, as mentioned earlier, it's like how the Marlies and apparently the junior hockey team in Mississauga do this. The tickets are sold, not 'given away', but presumably significantly discounted as group sales for the pre-season game. They help organize where and when the buses drop off, park, and then pick up everybody after the game ends. The schools and kids are more interested in field trips that get them out of another boring day in the classroom than they would be about being given a coupon for a ticket to a night or weekend game that most of them probably wouldn't use.
Maybe most of the kids won't pay a lot of attention to the game and won't necessarily become fans right away or even later, but hopefully some will, and the rest will at least know it exists and where the stadium is, and maybe remember they had fun.

[AngeloV]

SM/SB are great football guys.

This is one of their many big calls that = 2016 results. They provided the justifications for this drastic move that are often repeated here. Bad guys. No talent. Not team guys.

Who else do I point to when it comes to this disastrous move. I am sorry, this was a great move with tons of future upside!

If you agree that they are great football guys, why are you unwilling to allow them to turn this team around?

As far as complaints about these receivers when they were 4-2, seems to me Elliott only played 2 quarters in the first game and missed all 4 of those wins. Common denominator there?

Gurley was the only one that surprised me as far as getting cut goes. But when tv cameras catch you having an in suck fest, I'm good with that releas too. Lack of character shows most in tough times. Pinball went through some of the toughest and never turned on anyone.

[1971GreyCup]

Had little effect either way. We didn't win with them (except when Ray started) and we didn't win without them.

Maybe the common denominator was Ray and not them. Sorry, AngeloV my sarcasm was showing through. Didn't mean to endorse them.

[ArgoRavi]

If you agree that they are great football guys, why are you unwilling to allow them to turn this team around?

As far as complaints about these receivers when they were 4-2, seems to me Elliott only played 2 quarters in the first game and missed all 4 of those wins. Common denominator there?

Gurley was the only one that surprised me as far as getting cut goes. But when tv cameras catch you having an in suck fest, I'm good with that releas too. Lack of character shows most in tough times. Pinball went through some of the toughest and never turned on anyone.

IIRC, Gurley missed the wins over Montreal and Ottawa too.

[R.J]

Not that this really matters, but I'm surprised by how many people were surprised to learn how hot it is on the east side in afternoons and early evenings. The same conditions applied to a good chunk of the Rogers Centre east side when the roof was open on a sunny day. Granted the RC is cavernous enough that some shadows emerge as the sun moves, but I stopped sitting on the east side years ago because it was way too hot and sunny at times. I hope this does not become a serious impediment to selling tickets over there as the years go on. I would not argue against cheaper tickets on that side, to encourage fuller stands there. And lots of evening games.
I figured the sun would be bothersome, but I wasn't expecting the humdity we got this year.

West side for the Ticats, and if I get season tickets for the Argos, I plan to sit on the West side. Hopefully some good seats open up.

[ArgoGabe22]

Milanovich stated in his post game conference after that brutal, brutal loss to Montreal that some players did not want to be here. The next day those 4 players were cut. I think that says it all.

As others have stated, don't think that you are not wanted here on the forum. Look at Grey Dragon and I...we disagree on the Crossover format, but hey, it's just a matter of debate.

We don't even know what went on afterwards behind the scenes. When they were released, out of respect, Milanovich obviously did not want to give a proper reason on why they were released. I believe the issue with these 4 are much deeper than just their on field performance.

[Argo57]

I've been complaining about those receivers making the QB's look bad for over a year.

You were correct in that evaluation Ron, never thought the "Big 3" struck fear into any D TBH.

[doubleblue]

Had little effect either way. We didn't win with them (except when Ray started) and we didn't win without them.

I glad you mentioned "except when Ray started". Winnipeg receivers didn't look very good either except when Nichols started. There's nothing like having a QB like Ricky Ray who throws the ball on time and in the right place. When receivers have to reach back, reach high, dive or wait for the thrown ball they have a tendency to look bad or very ordinary. Teams now a days need the big dominant receivers like Gurley and Elliott IMO. All the good teams in the League pretty well have that. The Argos need to go out and find a couple again. Shaw and Spencer are good change of pace receivers but will get shut down if they are the go to guys IMO.

[cfl-cis fan]

I glad you mentioned "except when Ray started". Winnipeg receivers didn't look very good either except when Nichols started. There's nothing like having a QB like Ricky Ray who throws the ball on time and in the right place. When receivers have to reach back, reach high, dive or wait for the thrown ball they have a tendency to look bad or very ordinary. Teams now a days need the big dominant receivers like Gurley and Elliott IMO. All the good teams in the League pretty well have that. The Argos need to go out and find a couple again. Shaw and Spencer are good change of pace receivers but will get shut down if they are the go to guys IMO.

Jones ........

[Neely2005]

Should I be expecting a similar Email from the Argonauts?

http://info.ottawaredblacks.com/nl/jsp/m.jsp?c=10012be9071c48977a

[ArgoTD]

Last off season, the excuse was that they had to delay in getting things rolling until the purchase of the team was finalized which left them behind in terms of their planning. This off season there can't be any excuses. They have clearly seen the current landscape and they must identify and take into account the challenges in putting a comprehensive plan together. Copeland must show improvement in all aspects of the organization this coming year or they need to get someone else in. It actually astonishes me that he read the conditions they were facing so poorly given his time in the league office.

[herrington2828]

Milanovich stated in his post game conference after that brutal, brutal loss to Montreal that some players did not want to be here. The next day those 4 players were cut. I think that says it all.

As others have stated, don't think that you are not wanted here on the forum. Look at Grey Dragon and I...we disagree on the Crossover format, but hey, it's just a matter of debate.

They drank on the train home and harassed management in their cabin. fact. ask any player you know. 3 have confirmed it but JB and SM are too classy to bury a player publicly

[R.J]

Last off season, the excuse was that they had to delay in getting things rolling until the purchase of the team was finalized which left them behind in terms of their planning. This off season there can't be any excuses. They have clearly seen the current landscape and they must identify and take into account the challenges in putting a comprehensive plan together. Copeland must show improvement in all aspects of the organization this coming year or they need to get someone else in. It actually astonishes me that he read the conditions they were facing so poorly given his time in the league office.
I find it odd that we still haven't received any renewal information. Copeland brought up that we'll only receive it after the Grey Cup - what's the hold up ?

[Mightygoose]

I find it odd that we still have received any renewal information. Copeland brought up that will only receive it after the Grey Cup - what's the hold up ?

Just another thing that shows they had way too much on their plate in the first years.

So I guess this season was year zero? Need to work on a tag line

Year One: An Argos Story

Or

The Farce Awakens.

I'm sure someone can do better...lol

[PullTogether73]

Just another thing that shows they had way too much on their plate in the first years.

So I guess this season was year zero? Need to work on a tag line

Year One: An Argos Story

Or

The Farce Awakens.

I'm sure someone can do better...lol

Give yourself credit - "The Farce Awakens" would be a very good tag line for the Argonauts going into next season.
:D

[paulwoods13]

I find it odd that we still haven't received any renewal information. Copeland brought up that we'll only receive it after the Grey Cup - what's the hold up ?

I would bet that there are two possible reasons: 1. They have been too busy trying to shore up all the leaks in the Grey Cup dike to focus on anything else. And/or 2. The current exec may not be in position to roll out next year's plans because may not be the ones rolling out those plans. Cope and Tanenbaum may have triaged a need to deal with the immediate emergency (the Grey Cup) and leave the longer-term emergency for discussions and/or action next week and beyond.

[Argo57]

I find it odd that we still haven't received any renewal information. Copeland brought up that we'll only receive it after the Grey Cup - what's the hold up ?

A couple of days ago I called the Argos regarding renewals, was told nothing was finalized and they would start the process "a week or two" after the Grey Cup.

[moeajram]

Copeland needs to take a serious look at the pain and angry that he has created between the org and the season ticket holder. The season ticket hold continue to invest in this team and always come out on the short end. This has been happening since C&S sold the team and continues with the ownership group. After this whole mess with the grey cup, if another grey cup comes to town, how do fans and season ticket holder trust them that they are going to get the best value on grey cup. We need to build this fan base and we have to ensure that the ticket prices are correct which means lowering the number of price tiers that they have and allowing season tickets holder to get the best value on their tickets.

[Argo57]

Copeland needs to take a serious look at the pain and angry that he has created between the org and the season ticket holder. The season ticket hold continue to invest in this team and always come out on the short end. This has been happening since C&S sold the team and continues with the ownership group. After this whole mess with the grey cup, if another grey cup comes to town, how do fans and season ticket holder trust them that they are going to get the best value on grey cup. We need to build this fan base and we have to ensure that the ticket prices are correct which means lowering the number of price tiers that they have and allowing season tickets holder to get the best value on their tickets.

I wouldn't expect the Grey Cup to return to Toronto for quite some time.

[moeajram]

I wouldn't expect the Grey Cup to return to Toronto for quite some time.
Oh i thought that the new ownership group were promised so many grey cups in the first 10 years.

[Will]

Oh i thought that the new ownership group were promised so many grey cups in the first 10 years.

That is the rumor. Toronto got shut out for the Grey Cup for 15 years after 1992. I don't expect that to happen this time, but it should be 5 at least, and maybe not till 2023 which is the 150th anniversary of the team.

[doubleblue]

They drank on the train home and harassed management in their cabin. fact. ask any player you know. 3 have confirmed it but JB and SM are too classy to bury a player publicly

Can't really blame them. Milanovich's offense would drive anybody to drink out of frustration.

[Neely2005]

An easy one would have been to have 2017 season tickets available for sale during the Grey Cup. My brother and some of his friends attended and want to buy season tickets for next season and where surprised to find out that they're not on sale yet.

[moeajram]

An easy one would have been to have 2017 season tickets available for sale during the Grey Cup. My brother and some of his friends attended and want to buy season tickets for next season and where surprised to find out that they're not on sale yet.
I think they have to take their time to review the prices of the seating including season ticket holder prices. They to get it right this year to avoid the mess that was created this year.

[AngeloV]

I think they have to take their time to review the prices of the seating including season ticket holder prices. They to get it right this year to avoid the mess that was created this year.

Too late for that. They already announced 2016 prices were frozen for 2017.

[RB957]

An easy one would have been to have 2017 season tickets available for sale during the Grey Cup. My brother and some of his friends attended and want to buy season tickets for next season and where surprised to find out that they're not on sale yet.

Yet they still have the link to the site selling tickets to the Grey Cup... two days after it was played. How do they expect to get the big things right, when they don't even take care of small things like this?

[Mulder]

An easy one would have been to have 2017 season tickets available for sale during the Grey Cup. My brother and some of his friends attended and want to buy season tickets for next season and where surprised to find out that they're not on sale yet.

This is interesting, because the people I was with said their friends who lived in Toronto had fun at the game as well and are thinking about season tickets, something may be starting to simmer with regards to the Argos in Toronto. It's up to the organization to capitalize.

[Neely2005]

This is interesting, because the people I was with said their friends who lived in Toronto had fun at the game as well and are thinking about season tickets, something may be starting to simmer with regards to the Argos in Toronto. It's up to the organization to capitalize.

Well hopefully they get back to work quickly and don't lose more momentum.

[R.J]

An easy one would have been to have 2017 season tickets available for sale during the Grey Cup. My brother and some of his friends attended and want to buy season tickets for next season and where surprised to find out that they're not on sale yet.
Such a good opportunity missed.

Just an fyi, Hogan was on TSN 1150 earlier and brought up that there's some rumblings about Copeland kept for next season.

[paulwoods13]

Just an fyi, Hogan was on TSN 1150 earlier and brought up that there's some rumblings about Copeland kept for next season.

Simmons reported same rumblings a week ago. It will be very interesting to see how this plays out. Maybe instead of a football czar, they hire an uber-president (Leiwecke type) and drop both Copeland and Barker down a rung, one to lead biz ops and one to lead football ops, and both on a short leash.

[doubleblue]

Such a good opportunity missed.

Just an fyi, Hogan was on TSN 1150 earlier and brought up that there's some rumblings about Copeland kept for next season.

Argos need someone like Keith Pelley as President IMO.

[Mightygoose]

Simmons reported same rumblings a week ago. It will be very interesting to see how this plays out. Maybe instead of a football czar, they hire an uber-president (Leiwecke type) and drop both Copeland and Barker down a rung, one to lead biz ops and one to lead football ops, and both on a short leash.

Sounds like a bit of a demotion for Copeland? Is he being made of a scapegoat (maybe on some level deserved) for the off field issues and Grey Cup Fiasco?

Perhaps someone he can learn under...who knows but I would be nice to see some changes...

[R.J]

Simmons reported same rumblings a week ago. It will be very interesting to see how this plays out. Maybe instead of a football czar, they hire an uber-president (Leiwecke type) and drop both Copeland and Barker down a rung, one to lead biz ops and one to lead football ops, and both on a short leash.
MLSE already has Leweike's replacement in Mr. Friisdahl (I know it's a different organization, just a bit confused as to your meaning). Copeland is the Pres and C.E.O, so remove the C.E.O title, or drop him to V.P of whatever, and hire Copeland's replacement ? Why even bother having Copeland and Moore around then ? What would Barker be dropped to, Asst. GM (only has the GM title currently) ? I doubt that will happen. Not sure why this issue is so difficult, Craig Reynolds was a life long accountant, and somehow had the knowledge to hire Jones and Murphy in Sask. Forzani Group brought in Hufnagel, Scott Mitchell brought in Austin, Jeff Hunt is the guy who hired Marcel Desjardins, etc.

I do wonder who's making some of the decisions here though re: ticket prices, Grey Cup prices etc, and even this supposed football czar crap, and to be honest, I'm starting to question what's going on in Toronto.

Argos need someone like Keith Pelley as President IMO.
I always felt that if MLSE bought the team in 2003, and Keith Pelley was around for the rebuild and a joint BMO from day one, that we wouldn't be talking about the Argos issues right now. People can say what they want about Pelley, but the team was considerably more visible under his tenure than it is today.

[paulwoods13]

I'm saying they may hire a Leiwecke type as the overall president, and effectively demote Copeland to head of business ops, reporting to the new president. Thought that was clear. It has nothing to do with MLSE except that Leiwecke worked there so he came to mind as an example of the type/profile of boss needed.

[R.J]

I'm saying they may hire a Leiwecke type as the overall president, and effectively demote Copeland to head of business ops, reporting to the new president. Thought that was clear. It has nothing to do with MLSE except that Leiwecke worked there so he came to mind as an example of the type/profile of boss needed.
So what happens to Moore (Current Sr. vp of business ops) ?

[Mightygoose]

So what happens to Moore (Current Sr. vp of business ops) ?

A sacraficial lamb perhaps? She was the chair of the Grey Cup comittee and the fiasco that became. Someone has to pay the price.

I confess it is a cruel throught.

[ArgoGabe22]

So what happens to Moore (Current Sr. vp of business ops) ?

From what I've heard from those who had to deal with her in person, she can take a hike.

[paulwoods13]

So what happens to Moore (Current Sr. vp of business ops) ?

Obviously, if a new president is appointed, all best are off for all current members of the admin. Copeland, Moore, Barker could all be kept or all be gassed.

[Jayahre]

Let the owner Larry Tannenbaum, who is also chairman of TFC and MLSE, turn the management over to TFC !!
They probably should fire the old football guys and let the young successful soccer guys show them how to run a business.

[Neely2005]

Should I be expecting a similar Email from the Argonauts?

http://info.ottawaredblacks.com/nl/jsp/m.jsp?c=10012be9071c48977a

Again, should I be expecting a similar Email from the Argonauts?

http://info.ottawaredblacks.com/nl/jsp/m.jsp?c=db33126424f5861afe

[Neely2005]

Let the owner Larry Tannenbaum, who is also chairman of TFC and MLSE, turn the management over to TFC !!
They probably should fire the old football guys and let the young successful soccer guys show them how to run a business.

Yes because 1 season of on field success for TFC overshadows a decade of on field incompetence.

[Mightygoose]

From what I've heard from those who had to deal with her in person, she can take a hike.

Take it for what it's worth.

I was speaking with my former co-working/current client who is with MLSE

Says there will be some heads to roll in both the coaching/management and on the executive level.

Though he can't name anything he let out a 'Sa' but wouldn't let me know if I connected the dots right or wrong re: Post 230.

We shall see.......

[AngeloV]

Let the owner Larry Tannenbaum, who is also chairman of TFC and MLSE, turn the management over to TFC !!
They probably should fire the old football guys and let the young successful soccer guys show them how to run a business.


Why do you even post here?

[doubleblue]

Take it for what it's worth.

I was speaking with my former co-working/current client who is with MLSE

Says there will be some heads to roll in both the coaching/management and on the executive level.

Though he can't name anything he let out a 'Sa' but wouldn't let me know if I connected the dots right or wrong re: Post 230.

We shall see.......

One could almost take that to mean Sally Moore. I think Milanovich knows he's as good as gone. Barker might be happy to just retire to California and do some scouting for the Argos to earn some of his pay.
I'm starting to like the sound on a new Leiwecke type head honcho to try and straighten this mess out.

[R.J]

Take it for what it's worth.

I was speaking with my former co-working/current client who is with MLSE

Says there will be some heads to roll in both the coaching/management and on the executive level.

Though he can't name anything he let out a 'Sa' but wouldn't let me know if I connected the dots right or wrong re: Post 230.

We shall see.......
If things continue, I'd like to see Copeland gone as well.

Why do you even post here?
I guess trolling the CFl forums wasn't enough for him, or maybe he's surprised that the Argos are still alive (he stated previously on the CFl forums that the Argonauts would be dead and buried by this time).

[AngeloV]

I guess trolling the CFl forums wasn't enough for him, or maybe he's surprised that the Argos are still alive (he stated previously on the CFl forums that the Argonauts would be dead and buried by this time).

I just don't get it. We have a few fans of other teams that post here and add quite a bit of good to this site. Then we have him. I personally don't post on other teams fan forum sites, but if I did, I don't think I would only come around to piss others off.

[Argo57]

I just don't get it. We have a few fans of other teams that post here and add quite a bit of good to this site. Then we have him. I personally don't post on other teams fan forum sites, but if I did, I don't think I would only come around to piss others off.

I'm with you Angelo, I have better things to do than attempt to push buttons on other fan forums.
TFC and their fans should enjoy their run to the final, good for them but to TBH I'm indifferent one way or another.

[Argoknot]

Why do you even post here?Because CFL fans are trusting and stupid like a loyal old dog. As paranoid and ridiculous as this may sound the soccer people post negative insidious comments at most CFL sites. But they're smarter than CFL fans because they will ban and delete CFL fans if they try to do the same thing at their sites. They want the Argos and CFL dead and CFL fans just don't have the stomach to fight back and thus they'll keep getting kicked and eventually perception becomes reality.

At one general forum the same TFC fan mods both the MLS forum and CFL forum, I'm not saying you can't be a fan of both, many are, but there is a very sizeable number of social media savvy TFC people (almost never Whitecaps or Impact fans) who post negative news with the intent of wanting to kill the Argos or CFL. There is no other logic to it. Jayahre does that at the CFL site and everybody knows it. He won't deny it he just disappears for a while and comes back when the smoke clears.

They almost all start the same way. Their first post is something along the lines of "I've been a fan of the CFL for 30 years... BUT" And trolls always give themselves away with another little bit of behaviour that logic would dictate but I won't say because it might help them.

It's just sad that CFL fans seem to bury their head in the sand. I'd love to see them go all "Hanson Brothers" on these trolls and media people.

[Argoknot]

Sounds like a bit of a demotion for Copeland? Is he being made of a scapegoat (maybe on some level deserved) for the off field issues and Grey Cup Fiasco? Perhaps someone he can learn under...who knows but I would be nice to see some changes...Ironic considering he was probably the guy who got the rest of the CFL to the present good state that it is in. He did what I would have done, been a little overly optimistic to create demand and a good vibe. Unfortunately they really underestimated the market, but I've read very few accounts of people having a bad fan experience at the games so they did something right.

But they still only have to get 25k AIS (asses in seats) not 6 million of the GTA. Not everyone has to be an Argo fan just 25k, the rest will take care of itself.

[ArgoRavi]

Ironic considering he was probably the guy who got the rest of the CFL to the present good state that it is in. He did what I would have done, been a little overly optimistic to create demand and a good vibe. Unfortunately they really underestimated the market, but I've read very few accounts of people having a bad fan experience at the games so they did something right.

But they still only have to get 25k AIS (asses in seats) not 6 million of the GTA. Not everyone has to be an Argo fan just 25k, the rest will take care of itself.

Numbers that Jeffrey Orridge and TSN have been quoting recently appear to indicate that overall interest in the Argos is up, even in the younger demographic. IIRC, Argos' TV ratings were up some 52% this year so there has been growth, despite the lousy on-field performance, which means that Copeland and Moore must be doing something right.

[Neely2005]

Again, should I be expecting a similar Email from the Argonauts?

http://info.ottawaredblacks.com/nl/jsp/m.jsp?c=db33126424f5861afe

The more I think about it the more I believe that Ottawa should be the model that we follow. They seem to be doing everything right and really seem to value their fans.

[Mulder]

Because CFL fans are trusting and stupid like a loyal old dog. As paranoid and ridiculous as this may sound the soccer people post negative insidious comments at most CFL sites. But they're smarter than CFL fans because they will ban and delete CFL fans if they try to do the same thing at their sites. They want the Argos and CFL dead and CFL fans just don't have the stomach to fight back and thus they'll keep getting kicked and eventually perception becomes reality.

At one general forum the same TFC fan mods both the MLS forum and CFL forum, I'm not saying you can't be a fan of both, many are, but there is a very sizeable number of social media savvy TFC people (almost never Whitecaps or Impact fans) who post negative news with the intent of wanting to kill the Argos or CFL. There is no other logic to it. Jayahre does that at the CFL site and everybody knows it. He won't deny it he just disappears for a while and comes back when the smoke clears.

They almost all start the same way. Their first post is something along the lines of "I've been a fan of the CFL for 30 years... BUT" And trolls always give themselves away with another little bit of behaviour that logic would dictate but I won't say because it might help them.

It's just sad that CFL fans seem to bury their head in the sand. I'd love to see them go all "Hanson Brothers" on these trolls and media people.

As someone who used to run this site, I can offer my perspective.

There is a balance between allowing free speech and catering to group consensus.
Just because someone has an opposing viewpoint, you can't dismiss them, moderate them or ban them, especially if they are at least trying to do it in a civil manner. It may be upsetting to the main audience, but Argofans isn't here to cater to your feelings.

When myself or Will banned or moderated someone, It's not disallowing their right to freedom of speech, it's because you said something stupid and it was likely against the rules.

My policy was/is that anyone could come here and debate whatever they liked as long as they also attempted to learn something. Being open minded about peoples motives for being here despite having some rough posts. If that be about different CFL teams or different leagues.

My thoughts about other sites banning people for differing viewpoints? What they have done is created a place where someone can post something and everyone just agrees, it's what they want in the whole TFC/Argos debate. It's sort of a confirmation bias based within a community. The 'we have this viewpoint so we must be right mentality" removing the opposing viewpoint does this, and it's actually what is happening in universities across north america right now as well. Group mentally eventually leads to close mindedness, when everyone just agrees with no talking about, no debate, or no counter opinion you get to that state where if someone says something slightly off the group censuses their gone.

Quite often, the owners/moderators will use the guise of 'trolling' to remove the person who disagrees or has an opposing viewpoint. There is a difference between providing a claim/counter-claim/opinion and trolling. One may have the unintended affect of upsetting readers and the other is deliberate attempt. Of course you can argue a Argo fan going to a TFC forum (or vise-versa) is that deliberate attempt. However, I don't agree with that as long as you go there attempting to learn something yourself.

People in both sports can have their reasons for not liking the other sport, that is fine. But we need to get to a point to say it's OK to like the other sport, and it's OK to like multiple sports.

[Will]

Because CFL fans are trusting and stupid like a loyal old dog. As paranoid and ridiculous as this may sound the soccer people post negative insidious comments at most CFL sites. But they're smarter than CFL fans because they will ban and delete CFL fans if they try to do the same thing at their sites. They want the Argos and CFL dead and CFL fans just don't have the stomach to fight back and thus they'll keep getting kicked and eventually perception becomes reality.

At one general forum the same TFC fan mods both the MLS forum and CFL forum, I'm not saying you can't be a fan of both, many are, but there is a very sizeable number of social media savvy TFC people (almost never Whitecaps or Impact fans) who post negative news with the intent of wanting to kill the Argos or CFL. There is no other logic to it. Jayahre does that at the CFL site and everybody knows it. He won't deny it he just disappears for a while and comes back when the smoke clears.

They almost all start the same way. Their first post is something along the lines of "I've been a fan of the CFL for 30 years... BUT" And trolls always give themselves away with another little bit of behaviour that logic would dictate but I won't say because it might help them.

It's just sad that CFL fans seem to bury their head in the sand. I'd love to see them go all "Hanson Brothers" on these trolls and media people.

Everytime, the mods here show the slightest bit of moderation then they are accused of stifling free speech.

[R.J]

Everytime, the mods here show the slightest bit of moderation then they are accused of stifling free speech.
Yup. As I recall it, Argknot pretty much made this type of accusation when his old account (rdavies) was banned lol.

[Argoknot]

???

[Ron]

Dogs are not stupid.