View Full Version : Damien Cox - Argos v TFC
mint83
11-01-2016, 01:33 AM
https://www.thestar.com/sports/tfc/2016/10/31/tfc-showing-who-bmos-main-tenants-are-cox.html
Sorry for my technical skills if the link doesn't work.
Again, too bad this years Argos regime has allowed these hacks to continue writing stuff like this.
PullTogether73
11-01-2016, 01:54 AM
Strangely, I don't have much of a problem with what Cox wrote in this article.
As an Argonauts fan, I'm disappointed that it has come to this, but I can at least see that his point can be made if one looks at game attendance.
We might argue that TV ratings are better for Argonauts games versus TFC games, but are we able to separate Toronto viewers from national viewers? It may be that viewers from other cities watch to see their team play the Argonauts rather than Toronto fans watching to see the local team play.
Wow. You mean TFC gets a full house for it's first winning playoff run in it's long decade of existence? Little early to make TFC the predominant #4 team if one has any lick of unbiased opinion.
And notice how he shows the TFC TV rating when compared to the Raptors but excluded the TV rating Argo games get? Cox knowingly is fudging that since he's no noob when it comes to the CFL. He just knew actually using the Argo TV numbers would bury his argument.
Had the Argos gone 12-4 and hosting a East Final and TFC again having a losing season. BMO would be sold out for the Argos playoff game and Cox would NOT be writing any articles about the Argos being #4 and TFC being nobodies.
gilthethrill
11-01-2016, 06:05 AM
I was expecting some one in the Toronto media to write something like this. Cox is a dick. What is this BMO Main Tennant crap? The Argos and KFC are co-tenants. This really sucks that the Argos picked the worst possible time to be the worst team in the CFL. Wonder if Cox will be poking his nose at the Grey Cup Festival later this month...
Oh, he's probably right.
Always going to question the motives of a Rogers employee though.
It is this type of attitude of pitting sports teams against another in this city as why most of the members here couldn't give a damn about the rest of Toronto sports.
doubleblue
11-01-2016, 08:45 AM
I never really cared too much what Cox ever said. Writing for a dying paper. But the TFC fans will love It, otherwise who cares.
1971GreyCup
11-01-2016, 09:32 AM
The Moment TFC Made the Argos Irrelevant, Damien Cox, TheStar.com
1 November 2016
Part II
The contrast was just too great, too utterly convincing, to ignore.
In the same stadium where the Toronto Argonauts drew tiny crowds all season, the same BMO Field that was supposed to save the CFL in this city, Toronto FC attracted a capacity audience on Sunday night for a raucous, thrilling playoff game against New York City FC and in doing so made a statement.
This was the moment TFC clearly became No. 4 in this sports town, passing the Argos, the oldest franchise in the city.
Passion has vanquished history.
Those who follow the Reds will have a giggle at this statement, believing they left the CFL in their dust long ago, and they may be right. For years, even in the face of strong evidence that suggested the Argos were in serious decline as a sporting concern in the GTA, it was difficult to give TFC its due, largely because the team was lousy most of the time and missed the playoffs for the first eight years of its existence.
Traditional media outlets stuck stubbornly to the belief that the Argos still mattered to significant numbers of people and pro soccer couldn’t grow because it never had.
But you just can’t make that case anymore.
It’s not about which sport is better or more entertaining. This is about relevance in the city, and watching the sold-out stadium on Sunday as TFC charged to a 2-0 victory in the first game of the two-game MLS aggregate series, and listening to the non-stop chanting and singing of TFC’s supporters in the end zone, it was impossible to deny the fact this soccer club has not only engaged its core group but started to attract sports fans in general.
Pascal Siakam, one of the newest Raptors, tweeted his support and offered his playing skills. SNL comedian Leslie Jones spent all Sunday tweeting her thoughts on MLS playoff competition, including the Toronto-New York game.
TFC’s stars, notably Sebastian Giovinco, Jozy Altidore and Michael Bradley, all shone brightly on Sunday night in a game that seemed part-brawl at times, giving the team personality to those, like myself, who haven’t watched much before.
It’s taken TFC nine years and lots of missteps — lest we bring up the name of Jermain Defoe — to reach this point under head coach Greg Vanney. Not only will there be lots of anticipation for next Sunday’s game at Yankee Stadium, there are lots of talking points, including the style of play and perhaps whether Spanish captain David Villa should be suspended for the second game for a rather brutal kick to the back of TFC’s Armando Cooper’s legs that was clearly seen by referee Silviu Petrescu but somehow went unpunished.
So as not to get carried away, let’s be clear; TFC remains no threat to the Big Three in this town, the Maple Leafs, Raptors and Blue Jays, although the 238,000 viewers TFC attracted Sunday night wasn’t far off what the Raps attracted Friday (300,000) against Cleveland. The trend is clearly upwards, the soccer team can fairly say it dominated the front pages of Toronto sport sections on Monday and the commitment of TFC’s fans to their team matches any of the other three franchises.
The Argos, meanwhile, are limping to the end of a sad 5-12 season in which they won only two of nine home games. As mentioned, BMO Field was viewed as a panacea for much of which ailed the football franchise, but the first year out of Rogers Centre didn’t prove that to be the case at all.
The Argos drew an average of 16,380 fans, with crowds as low as 12,373. In a shrinking league in which average attendance for the nine teams is now less than 25,000 (it was 29,166 a decade ago) the Toronto squad is disappearing out of sight.
With aging quarterback Ricky Ray seemingly injured almost all of time, the team has no noteworthy stars. While once upon a time the Argos could go out and get players like Rocket Ismail, Doug Flutie and even Ricky Williams to try and goose the city into paying attention, it’s hard to imagine a single football star who could do that today. Peyton Manning out of retirement, maybe? Johnny Manziel out of whatever world he’s inhabiting these days? Bo-Levi Mitchell is probably the CFL’s top quarterback now, but if the Argos managed to get him, it would have no impact whatsoever on the team’s profile in this city.
Meanwhile, the recent controversy over price-slashing for the Nov. 27 Grey Cup game at BMO Field hasn’t helped create any better feelings about the Argos. After setting sky-high prices for the games and drawing a moderate response from the public, ticket prices were reduced, which might help fill the stadium but incensed those who had bought at the initial prices.
In a fall in which Toronto sports fans have had to dig deep already for the World Cup of Hockey and Blue Jays playoff games, it will be interesting indeed to see whether the Argos and the CFL can fill BMO Field for the Grey Cup contest.
It’s hard to see how the Argos can survive this, although being owned by TSN and Larry Tanenbaum at least offers deep pockets and commitment. It’s surely better than being owned by David Braley.
They now seem destined to finding ways to simply survive. Every other CFL team is, at worst, the second pro team in their market. In Ottawa, the RedBlacks might be No. 1. The Argos are fifth in theirs.
A decade ago, few would have imagined the day Toronto’s football team would fall so far to be eclipsed by professional soccer. But it has surely happened.
Antwon
11-01-2016, 01:01 PM
Unfortunately The Argos have given Cox lots to feed his ongoing negative view of them.
To bad he doesn't have the guts to put all the TV numbers out there. Argo/CFL/Grey Cup compared to TFC/MLS/Championship. CFL outdraws consistently.
And saying 238,000 for Sundays playoff game is a trend? Really, when most regular season games don't crack 100,000. It's a playoff spike!
Just like the Raptors playoff TV numbers that didn't continue into the next regular season.
He says TFC made a lot of missteps in the past. Fair enough but the Argos have made just as many if not more.
--C&S backing out of a York U stadium and going back to the dome.
--Braley owning the team and gutting operations etc.
--New owners extending JB and SM to only have them completely crap out
I don't see a quick fix for the Argo mess, so we'll have to get used to more articles like this.
Neely2005
11-01-2016, 01:08 PM
Just an FYI I was told that Rogers was giving out free tickets to the TFC playoff game, up to 4 per employee were available.
AngeloV
11-01-2016, 01:56 PM
Oh, he's probably right.
Always going to question the motives of a Rogers employee though.
It is this type of attitude of pitting sports teams against another in this city as why most of the members here couldn't give a damn about the rest of Toronto sports.
No shit. I would have no problem if he wanted to write about a wonderful experience and atmosphere at the TFC game, but there was no reason to include the Argos in that write up. A huge troll job.
Funny how all these writers made fun of the CFL for having 2 teams with similar nicknames (although spelled differently with a different meaning), yet none of them make fun of how many teams are named (insert city)FC.
No shit. I would have no problem if he wanted to write about a wonderful experience and atmosphere at the TFC game, but there was no reason to include the Argos in that write up. A huge troll job.
Funny how all these writers made fun of the CFL for having 2 teams with similar nicknames (although spelled differently with a different meaning), yet none of them make fun of how many teams are named (insert city)FC.
Agree 100% with this.
Agree 100% with this.
Me too.
Treblecharger1
11-01-2016, 02:22 PM
What is not reported was the hundreds of tickets I saw being handed out to Bell Employees outside gate 1 on Sunday. 100% a double standard as when the Argos pad the house with tickets it is reported. I love both teams, both teams have similar problems. The Argos have a perception problem as most of their fan base does not go to the games and watches at home. TFC on the other hand gets every damn fan they have in the Stadium while no one watches at homes.
No shit. I would have no problem if he wanted to write about a wonderful experience and atmosphere at the TFC game, but there was no reason to include the Argos in that write up. A huge troll job.
Funny how all these writers made fun of the CFL for having 2 teams with similar nicknames (although spelled differently with a different meaning), yet none of them make fun of how many teams are named (insert city)FC.
Agree 100% with this.
Me too.
Me three.
DoubleBlue_Red
11-01-2016, 02:56 PM
Maybe if Argos fans were not dicks to soccer fans there would not be as much fuel on the TFC fire. The Argos have brought this situation upon themselves.
ArgoGabe22
11-01-2016, 03:24 PM
Maybe if Argos fans were not dicks to soccer fans there would not be as much fuel on the TFC fire. The Argos have brought this situation upon themselves.
How so? Because they moved to BMO? So TFC fans are allowed to act a certain way because they are forced to share a stadium? The Argos sharing BMO has not affected TFC in anyway this season. For the most part, both fan bases don't see eye to eye because of the fact the stadium has to be shared (correction: Argo fans seem to have no issue with sharing a stadium, but do have a problem with some of the attitudes shared by TFC fans) but it doesn't make sense for an Argo fan to be a "dick" to soccer fans, without reason to. And that reason would be most definitely instigated by a TFC fan first. Not that I think Argo fans need or should be going after another fan base but given the Arogs current situation, makes little sense for an Argos fan to initiate "the battle".
And I'm curious why you chose to include that word. From what I have seen, Argo fans have really done nothing malicious. I won't comment on TFC fan's behaviour.
gilthethrill
11-01-2016, 03:30 PM
Boy, what I would pay to be able to read a response by 1argoholic on this!
sportspirate
11-01-2016, 03:44 PM
Boy, what I would pay to be able to read a response by 1argoholic on this!
Isn't he still active on these boards?
gilthethrill
11-01-2016, 03:46 PM
Isn't he still active on these boards?
I am pretty sure he got banned. Not sure for how long if that is the case.
gilthethrill
11-01-2016, 03:47 PM
How so? Because they moved to BMO? So TFC fans are allowed to act a certain way because they are forced to share a stadium? The Argos sharing BMO has not affected TFC in anyway this season. For the most part, both fan bases don't see eye to eye because of the fact the stadium has to be shared (correction: Argo fans seem to have no issue with sharing a stadium, but do have a problem with some of the attitudes shared by TFC fans) but it doesn't make sense for an Argo fan to be a "dick" to soccer fans, without reason to. And that reason would be most definitely instigated by a TFC fan first. Not that I think Argo fans need or should be going after another fan base but given the Arogs current situation, makes little sense for an Argos fan to initiate "the battle".
And I'm curious why you chose to include that word. From what I have seen, Argo fans have really done nothing malicious. I won't comment on TFC fan's behaviour.
Agree totally with you Gabe.
sportspirate
11-01-2016, 04:36 PM
I am pretty sure he got banned. Not sure for how long if that is the case.
I wonder why he got banned? I need to log on here more often, I always miss the juicy drama :(
I am pretty sure he got banned. Not sure for how long if that is the case.
IIRC, before 1argoholic disappeared he was lamenting the tough problem of re-establishing his livelihood (landscaping, at around age 55) in Ontario following his move from Duncan, B.C.
He said he needed to cut costs and mentioned paying for Internet. Perhaps that's why he's MIA. It'd be nice to see his return here.
gilthethrill
11-01-2016, 05:06 PM
IIRC, before 1argoholic disappeared he was lamenting the tough problem of re-establishing his livelihood (landscaping, at around age 55) in Ontario following his move from Duncan, B.C.
He said he needed to cut costs and mentioned paying for Internet. Perhaps that's why he's MIA. It'd be nice to see his return here.
Yes, I do recall that. If that's the case, I would be more than glad to pay for his Internet. Would be well worth it!
PullTogether73
11-01-2016, 05:07 PM
Funny how all these writers made fun of the CFL for having 2 teams with similar nicknames (although spelled differently with a different meaning), yet none of them make fun of how many teams are named (insert city)FC.
I'll add to this by pointing out that none of those teams should be using the non-name "FC".
They should be using the non-name "SC" since they are playing in MLS, not MLF.:ohno:
As for mocking the Roughriders/Rough Riders names, I always point out that there are three teams in the NCAA's South East Conference (SEC) named Tigers.
The Toronto-wannabe Americans crowd usually shuts up when I mention this.:D
Maybe if Argos fans were not dicks to soccer fans there would not be as much fuel on the TFC fire. The Argos have brought this situation upon themselves.
Are you serious or just trolling ?
PullTogether73
11-01-2016, 05:13 PM
Maybe if Argos fans were not dicks to soccer fans there would not be as much fuel on the TFC fire. The Argos have brought this situation upon themselves.
From which planet did you just arrive to make such an inaccurate statement?
TFC fans (well, specifically the abhorrent "Supporters Groups"members) have been openly hostile to the Argonauts ever since the prospect of the Argonauts moving to BMO was raised.
Argonauts fans have only ever responded to this hostility, they have never initiated it.
"The Argos have brought this situation upon themselves"?
You have no credibility here making such a ridiculous statement.
1971GreyCup
11-01-2016, 05:30 PM
Listened to Bob McCowan and Damian Cox interview Joe Theismann on radio today. Damian made a slightly mocking remark about Argos record this year. Joe ignored him and went on to reminisce about his time with the Argos and recalled in 1971 splitting QB chores with Greg Barton until Greg broke his finger.
Damian didn't go there again. Hypocrit!
Argo57
11-01-2016, 07:08 PM
Listened to Bob McCowan and Damian Cox interview Joe Theismann on radio today. Damian made a slightly mocking remark about Argos record this year. Joe ignored him and went on to reminisce about his time with the Argos and recalled in 1971 splitting QB chores with Greg Barton until Greg broke his finger.
Damian didn't go there again. Hypocrit!
Theismann always talks highly of the Argonauts and CFL, love the fact that he hasn't forgotten those days.
Argo57
11-01-2016, 07:23 PM
Years ago I enjoyed Cox but over time he has become full of himself, actually a complete knob TBH.
Born and raised in the Hammer so wouldn't expect the likes of him and Brunt to miss a chance to kick the Argonauts when they are down.
Golden Fleece
11-01-2016, 07:24 PM
Seems like a load of premature speculation from Cox. Let's see how fervent (and large) TFC's fan base is during their next fallow period. Toronto fans are bigger bandwagon jumpers than most, so a sold out playoff game isn't enough to convince me.
Years ago I enjoyed Cox but over time he has become full of himself, actually a complete knob TBH.
Born and raised in the Hammer so wouldn't expect the likes of him and Brunt to miss a chance to kick the Argonauts when they are down.
Hamilton fans might not wish the Argos success on the field, but I don't think they want the team to fold either. I'm not sure I could place Cox in that camp anymore.
BorisToronto
11-01-2016, 07:30 PM
Howdy gang... I don't post often but I thought I check in the page since this article came out.
Maybe if Argos fans were not dicks to soccer fans there would not be as much fuel on the TFC fire. The Argos have brought this situation upon themselves.
I'm curious to the examples of this dickishness? I'm honestly asking, not in jest. I can only speak from personal experience of the last year on twitter, and I get regular trolling posts/responses from TFC fans.. Unsolicited and unwarranted as I don't comment on TFC posts or actively engage them. But sure enough many troll anything posted #cfl #argos and just are plain abusive.
As per this article, Cox wasn't wrong on his original assessment of the Argo's state this year... But that's where it stops, the comparison was unwarranted and now created a "champion" of the title of "main tenant" which is a bull statement in so many ways. Instead of focusing on the success the soccer team has had, he choose to create a feud.
Argo57
11-01-2016, 07:37 PM
Hamilton fans might not wish the Argos success on the field, but I don't think they want the team to fold either. I'm not sure I could place Cox in that camp anymore.
A year or two ago we were at a Ticat open house, Hamilton executive stated that they are in the Argos corner hoping that they succeed, sure bitter rivals but mutual respect between organizations (the way it should be)!!
Cox and Brunt however usually don't miss a chance to shit on the Argos, anyone else remember Brunt sucking up to CFL fans during the 2012 Grey Cup while selling his book?
A year or two ago we were at a Ticat open house, Hamilton executive stated that they are in the Argos corner hoping that they succeed, sure bitter rivals but mutual respect between organizations (the way it should be)!!
Cox and Brunt however usually don't miss a chance to shit on the Argos, anyone else remember Brunt sucking up to CFL fans during the 2012 Grey Cup while selling his book?
I don't doubt that.
I would hope that the Argos executive has the same mutual feeling, and that goes for every other team in the league.
Do the Argos deserve criticism? Wholeheartedly 100%, but, Rogers' hostility towards the league diminishes the credibility of whatever they write about it.
AngeloV
11-01-2016, 07:48 PM
Maybe if Argos fans were not dicks to soccer fans there would not be as much fuel on the TFC fire. The Argos have brought this situation upon themselves.
You're joking right? Maybe some of us on here have said a few things, but please remind me of the time when Argos fans planned to go to TFC games and vowed to start up trouble including starting fights. When did Argos fans physically rip seats out of there spots? When have Argos fans been a public disgrace such as what we all saw when Montreal played here a few weeks ago? Yeah, Argos fans are the dicks.
Do the Argos deserve criticism? Wholeheartedly 100%, but, Rogers' hostility towards the league diminishes the credibility of whatever they write about it.
Agreed.
You're joking right? Maybe some of us on here have said a few things, but please remind me of the time when Argos fans planned to go to TFC games and vowed to start up trouble including starting fights. When did Argos fans physically rip seats out of there spots? When have Argos fans been a public disgrace such as what we all saw when Montreal played here a few weeks ago? Yeah, Argos fans are the dicks.
I really don't understand how anyone could say with a straight face and without trolling that we're the bad guys and started it all................. I really don't.
SMH
AngeloV
11-01-2016, 07:56 PM
A year or two ago we were at a Ticat open house, Hamilton executive stated that they are in the Argos corner hoping that they succeed, sure bitter rivals but mutual respect between organizations (the way it should be)!!
Cox and Brunt however usually don't miss a chance to shit on the Argos, anyone else remember Brunt sucking up to CFL fans during the 2012 Grey Cup while selling his book?
Admittedly during their really lean years before Bob Young, I found myself cheering for the Cats unless it had negative implications on the Argos. God I'm glad I can go back to hating them again.
:D
1971GreyCup
11-01-2016, 08:01 PM
I feel that after the rubbish Cox put his name to today, the greats of Canadian Sports Writers must be turning in their graves. The likes of Trent Frayne, Scott Young, Jim Hunt, Jim Coleman and Milt Dunnell are only a few of those greats that I remember.
I am sure growing up, Damien looked up to these giants and said, I want to be just like you guys! Sadly, somewhere along the way, he forgot why he wanted to be a sports writer. Damien, you are just about as far away from these greats as you can ge!
Integrity, research, objectivity and great writing were staples in sports not so long ago. None of the greats integrity was for sale.
Argo57
11-01-2016, 08:03 PM
I don't doubt that.
I would hope that the Argos executive has the same mutual feeling, and that goes for every other team in the league.
Do the Argos deserve criticism? Wholeheartedly 100%, but, Rogers' hostility towards the league diminishes the credibility of whatever they write about it.
Guaranteed, the Argos have left themselves open to some of this crap but bashing them and piling on when they are down has become an Olympic sport at Rogers unfortunately.
AngeloV
11-01-2016, 08:04 PM
I feel that after the rubbish Cox put his name to today, the greats of Canadian Sports Writers must be turning in their graves. The likes of Trent Frayne, Scott Young, Jim Hunt, Jim Coleman and Milt Dunnell are only a few of those greats that I remember.
I am sure growing up, Damien looked up to these giants and said, I want to be just like you guys! Sadly, somewhere along the way, he forgot why he wanted to be a sports writer. Damien, you are just about as far away from these greats as you can ge!
Integrity, research, objectivity and great writing were staples in sports not so long ago. None of the greats integrity was for sale.
I honestly believe that when many of these writers cross over to the broadcasting world, their writing styles change to go more with their "entertaining" broadcast personalities.
Argo57
11-01-2016, 08:07 PM
You're joking right? Maybe some of us on here have said a few things, but please remind me of the time when Argos fans planned to go to TFC games and vowed to start up trouble including starting fights. When did Argos fans physically rip seats out of there spots? When have Argos fans been a public disgrace such as what we all saw when Montreal played here a few weeks ago? Yeah, Argos fans are the dicks.
Or anti Argonaut banners at the games??
Sense of entitlement in regards to BMO is staggering TBH.
I'll defend the media establishment to a degree (generally; definitely not in regards to the article) and say that it cannot be easy to cover sports in a town like Toronto. The Argos are the last team in town to win a championship in 2012 and as we know many in the media dismiss that as non-significant. It probably isn't easy to be anything but overwhelmingly negative.
BorisToronto
11-01-2016, 08:18 PM
Or anti Argonaut banners at the games??
Sense of entitlement in regards to BMO is staggering TBH.
That was quite precious. I get their feeling of BMO being their home as they were there for a while. But as a public facility and one built with the option for a CFL conversion in the original agreement. It was a silly little thing to hold a grudge over. You can't control what you don't own, it also applies to us as well.
1971GreyCup
11-01-2016, 08:18 PM
I honestly believe that when many of these writers cross over to the broadcasting world, their writing styles change to go more with their "entertaining" broadcast personalities.
Jim Hunt was a frequent guest on Bob McCowan's radio show and never behaved in such a manner. He was too well respected to mess with either.
ArgoRavi
11-01-2016, 08:21 PM
The Toronto Star had one of their sports columnists write a column about the Argos for the first time this season and this was the crap that they wrote?
Argo57
11-01-2016, 08:23 PM
That was quite precious. I get their feeling of BMO being their home as they were there for a while. But as a public facility and one built with the option for a CFL conversion in the original agreement. It was a silly little thing to hold a grudge over. You can't control what you don't own, it also applies to us as well.
Agreed Boris, if someone wants to cheer on TFC at BMO field have at it, but conversely Argo fans have the same right.
Personally I think of BMO as the Argonauts home because that the team I'm interested in but the big difference is we (Argo supporters) respect the fact that TFC belongs there as well.
BorisToronto
11-01-2016, 08:26 PM
Agreed Boris, if someone wants to cheer on TFC at BMO field have at it, but conversely Argo fans have the same right.
Personally I think of BMO as the Argonauts home because that the team I'm interested in but the big difference is we (Argo supporters) respect the fact that TFC belongs there as well.
I've taken the approach of being an "adult" and not insulting their fans even during negative interactions on twitter. It would be too easy to respond back negatively, but then I'd be involved. I honestly don't care to.. I don't follow soccer, it does nothing for me. And oddly enough with a functioning remote control I can pretty much avoid soccer in my life.
Agreed Boris, if someone wants to cheer on TFC at BMO field have at it, but conversely Argo fans have the same right.
Personally I think of BMO as the Argonauts home because that the team I'm interested in but the big difference is we (Argo supporters) respect the fact that TFC belongs there as well.
Or at least made peace with the establishment in that regard.
BorisToronto
11-01-2016, 08:30 PM
Or at least made peace with the establishment in that regard.
The stadium share is not going anywhere. What can be best hoped for is a improvement in the stadium turn around that would allow the interior of the stadium to feature what ever team is playing. Banners, flags, murals, statues.. what have you and be easily removed and replaced for the next team.
The stadium share is not going anywhere. What can be best hoped for is a improvement in the stadium turn around that would allow the interior of the stadium to feature what ever team is playing. Banners, flags, murals, statues.. what have you and be easily removed and replaced for the next team.
A reasonable enough compromise.
BorisToronto
11-01-2016, 08:37 PM
A reasonable enough compromise.
Reasonable is hardly agreeable to these days...
AngeloV
11-01-2016, 08:43 PM
Jim Hunt was a frequent guest on Bob McCowan's radio show and never behaved in such a manner. He was too well respected to mess with either.
True, but by the time Shaky was on the air, he became more of a part time writer, usually writing his stories with more of a lighter side approach.
1971GreyCup
11-01-2016, 08:46 PM
The Toronto Star had one of their sports columnists write a column about the Argos for the first time this season and this was the crap that they wrote?
Do you think it was unsolicited from The Star and needing to fill columns on the cheap, they'll accept anything??
argolio
11-02-2016, 12:31 AM
I'll add to this by pointing out that none of those teams should be using the non-name "FC".
They should be using the non-name "SC" since they are playing in MLS, not MLF.:ohno:
As for mocking the Roughriders/Rough Riders names, I always point out that there are three teams in the NCAA's South East Conference (SEC) named Tigers.
The Toronto-wannabe Americans crowd usually shuts up when I mention this.:DSoutheastern Conference, for the sake of accuracy. They also have two teams named Bulldogs.
The CFL East and West were also essentially two different, separate leagues until the 50s. It's not like one league had two Rider teams from the beginning. The playoff format didn't even get standardized for both divisions until the 70s. The NFL also had some weird playoff format anomalies that lasted until the early 70s.
Two years ago, Cox reportedly agreed to terms with TSN only a day or two before he signed with Rogers. Not that I'm questioning his integrity.
PullTogether73
11-02-2016, 04:29 AM
I still don't have a problem with the article tbh. The conclusion is probably accurate.
As some have pointed out though, it didn't have to be written.
I believe that blaming Rogers for this is inaccurate.
I really think that Rogers has backed off being hostile to the Argonauts/CFL this year.
But Cox himself seems to have a personal hate for the Argonauts and uses every opportunity to dump on them.
He bears responsibility for this article solely imo.
ArgoGabe22
11-02-2016, 06:57 AM
Damian Cox blocked me after I called him on something. No name calling, no insults, just a friendly reply.
1971GreyCup
11-02-2016, 08:01 AM
Maybe "tabloid" journalism is the direction the Toronto Star is looking towards to turn this boat?
Torstar Corp (TSb). The owner of circulation daily newspaper reported a bigger-than-expected adjusted third- quarter loss as it struggles with slumping advertising revenue. Operating revenue also fell, by 12.6 percent to C$162.1 million. Torstar reported net income attributable to shareholders of C$1.4 million, or 2 Canadian cents per share, for the quarter, including a gain of C$21.8 million from the sale of the Toronto Star's printing plant.
argotom
11-02-2016, 10:07 AM
Cox like Brunt is a puke, no credibility.
RB957
11-02-2016, 10:45 AM
I was fuming when I first read this column. I have now calmed down, and read it a few more times. My take: Cox's conclusion that TFC has "overtaken" the Argos is really ridiculous. Earlier this season, they were barely being mentioned in the press. Quite rightly, now that they have had some success and actually won in the playoffs, there is no surprise that interest is building. It is true, that TFC has drawn larger crowds, but their total fan base has always been smaller, and the tv numbers have been abysmal. Also, i recall many times viewing TFC hilights and seeing many many empty seats. They have done a good job in the past couple of years recruiting some bigger name players, are playing well as a team, and are reaping the benefits. Good for them. Having said that, what Cox says about the Argos situation is not untrue. They mistakenly believed that BMO would be a panacea for all ills and it hasn't been. A perfect storm of issues coming together has made this season to be a disaster: lousy scheduling, overpriced tickets(?), poor on-field performance, Grey Cup ticket fiasco, some questionable management decisions etc. Let's be realistic. In the Toronto market, with the Leafs, Jays and Raptors as the big three, the Argos are never going to get that attention. As far as who has surpassed who for "4th place", I say who cares? If our average attendance was around 16K, then really the issue is finding another 8 - 9 K fans to fill the seats. That is not an impossible goal. And while Cox is true, that the CFL doesn't necessarily have the "marquee" players other leagues have, we still have great athletes who are also interesting, multi-dimensional people. Look at that article in the Star just this week about Akwasi Owusu-Ansah and his passion for art and outreach to community. Or the recent story about Chad Kackert singing songs on his guitar at an open-mic night at a local pub. These are people I could sit down and have a beer with. And they would let me. They are generally humble, grateful for the opportunities they have and very approachable. Can anyone see themselves even getting close to Kyle Lowery, Jose Bautista or Auston Matthews? Not a chance. As far as I am concerned the CFL is special. It is the only professional sport that unites all of Canada, and that is played on our terms. We need to celebrate that and its rich history, and try finding about ten thousand more loyal and proud Canadians to share our passion for this great game. And then we need to put a competitive team on the field and all will be well. After that, all those others, Damien Cox included, can go f*#k themselves.
AngeloV
11-02-2016, 10:59 AM
I was fuming when I first read this column. I have now calmed down, and read it a few more times. My take: Cox's conclusion that TFC has "overtaken" the Argos is really ridiculous. Earlier this season, they were barely being mentioned in the press. Quite rightly, now that they have had some success and actually won in the playoffs, there is no surprise that interest is building. It is true, that TFC has drawn larger crowds, but their total fan base has always been smaller, and the tv numbers have been abysmal. Also, i recall many times viewing TFC hilights and seeing many many empty seats. They have done a good job in the past couple of years recruiting some bigger name players, are playing well as a team, and are reaping the benefits. Good for them. Having said that, what Cox says about the Argos situation is not untrue. They mistakenly believed that BMO would be a panacea for all ills and it hasn't been. A perfect storm of issues coming together has made this season to be a disaster: lousy scheduling, overpriced tickets(?), poor on-field performance, Grey Cup ticket fiasco, some questionable management decisions etc. Let's be realistic. In the Toronto market, with the Leafs, Jays and Raptors as the big three, the Argos are never going to get that attention. As far as who has surpassed who for "4th place", I say who cares? If our average attendance was around 16K, then really the issue is finding another 8 - 9 K fans to fill the seats. That is not an impossible goal. And while Cox is true, that the CFL doesn't necessarily have the "marquee" players other leagues have, we still have great athletes who are also interesting, multi-dimensional people. Look at that article in the Star just this week about Akwasi Owusu-Ansah and his passion for art and outreach to community. Or the recent story about Chad Kackert singing songs on his guitar at an open-mic night at a local pub. These are people I could sit down and have a beer with. And they would let me. They are generally humble, grateful for the opportunities they have and very approachable. Can anyone see themselves even getting close to Kyle Lowery, Jose Bautista or Auston Matthews? Not a chance. As far as I am concerned the CFL is special. It is the only professional sport that unites all of Canada, and that is played on our terms. We need to celebrate that and its rich history, and try finding about ten thousand more loyal and proud Canadians to share our passion for this great game. And then we need to put a competitive team on the field and all will be well. After that, all those others, Damien Cox included, can go f*#k themselves.
Love it. Great post/rant.
doubleblue
11-02-2016, 11:00 AM
Yes, I do recall that. If that's the case, I would be more than glad to pay for his Internet. Would be well worth it!
1argoholic is alive and well on the CFL.ca site. From all his posts it would appear he has too much time on his hands. I think he goes under the name of 1873argo or something like that.
1argoholic is alive and well on the CFL.ca site. From all his posts it would appear he has too much time on his hands. I think he goes under the name of 1873argo or something like that.
Argonauts est.1873
Tbone is also posting there as Enterprise Captain.
doubleblue
11-02-2016, 12:19 PM
Argonauts est.1873
Tbone is also posting there as Enterprise Captain.
I think I saw Area 51 on there too. ex-Double Blue Room deplore ables. :)
Neely2005
11-02-2016, 02:05 PM
I was fuming when I first read this column. I have now calmed down, and read it a few more times. My take: Cox's conclusion that TFC has "overtaken" the Argos is really ridiculous. Earlier this season, they were barely being mentioned in the press. Quite rightly, now that they have had some success and actually won in the playoffs, there is no surprise that interest is building. It is true, that TFC has drawn larger crowds, but their total fan base has always been smaller, and the tv numbers have been abysmal. Also, i recall many times viewing TFC hilights and seeing many many empty seats. They have done a good job in the past couple of years recruiting some bigger name players, are playing well as a team, and are reaping the benefits. Good for them. Having said that, what Cox says about the Argos situation is not untrue. They mistakenly believed that BMO would be a panacea for all ills and it hasn't been. A perfect storm of issues coming together has made this season to be a disaster: lousy scheduling, overpriced tickets(?), poor on-field performance, Grey Cup ticket fiasco, some questionable management decisions etc. Let's be realistic. In the Toronto market, with the Leafs, Jays and Raptors as the big three, the Argos are never going to get that attention. As far as who has surpassed who for "4th place", I say who cares? If our average attendance was around 16K, then really the issue is finding another 8 - 9 K fans to fill the seats. That is not an impossible goal. And while Cox is true, that the CFL doesn't necessarily have the "marquee" players other leagues have, we still have great athletes who are also interesting, multi-dimensional people. Look at that article in the Star just this week about Akwasi Owusu-Ansah and his passion for art and outreach to community. Or the recent story about Chad Kackert singing songs on his guitar at an open-mic night at a local pub. These are people I could sit down and have a beer with. And they would let me. They are generally humble, grateful for the opportunities they have and very approachable. Can anyone see themselves even getting close to Kyle Lowery, Jose Bautista or Auston Matthews? Not a chance. As far as I am concerned the CFL is special. It is the only professional sport that unites all of Canada, and that is played on our terms. We need to celebrate that and its rich history, and try finding about ten thousand more loyal and proud Canadians to share our passion for this great game. And then we need to put a competitive team on the field and all will be well. After that, all those others, Damien Cox included, can go f*#k themselves.
Well said!
paulwoods13
11-02-2016, 02:57 PM
I think I saw Area 51 on there too.
Not for weeks, not sorry to say.
Not for weeks, not sorry to say.
I heard not since his brother was benched.
I think I saw Area 51 on there too. ex-Double Blue Room deplore ables. :)
He is there, but as per his usual when things he end up being wrong, the Argos suck, and his brother plays poorly: he disappears. Returns a few months after lol.
He is there, but as per his usual when things he end up being wrong, the Argos suck, and his brother plays poorly: he disappears. Returns a few months after lol.
He was bragging quite a bit when the Argos were 4-2, and isn't his go-to to blame the rest of the d-line when things go south?
He was bragging quite a bit when the Argos were 4-2, and isn't his go-to to blame the rest of the d-line when things go south?
Or Chris Jones lol
IIRC A51 was touting Stubler and how awesome the veteran Argos dline was, then disappeared. Did the same thing when people starting calling him out on Riderfans, but when he was right about something, he'd pop back in after a few months for a toadaso. What's the old saying - "If you throw enough shit against a wall, some of it has gotta stick."
Or Chris Jones lol
IIRC A51 was touting Stubler and how awesome the veteran Argos dline was, then disappeared. Did the same thing when people starting calling him out on Riderfans, but when he was right about something, he'd pop back in after a few months for a toadaso. What's the old saying - "If you throw enough shit against a wall, some of it has gotta stick."
I thought the d-line was going to be a strength this year (well the interior more than the DE's) and they were playing well up until the game against the Blue Bombers, but after that...SPLAT!
I thought the d-line was going to be a strength this year (well the interior more than the DE's) and they were playing well up until the game against the Blue Bombers, but after that...SPLAT!
Only signing I liked was Bulcke. I was hoping that Foley would regain his form, but it's two seasons in a row now that he's played poorly, time to cut bait IMO. I was expecting big things from Waud, and hoping to see more of Walker, but injuries lead to my disappointment. Laurent made Hall look better and if we signed Hickman from 2011 good deal, but he hasn't been the same since coming back from the NFL.
We need so many upgrades it's not even funny - QB, RB, OL, WR, DL, LB, DB's, the entire team! That's messed up IMO.
Only signing I liked was Bulcke. I was hoping that Foley would regain his form, but it's two seasons in a row now that he's played poorly, time to cut bait IMO. I was expecting big things from Waud, and hoping to see more of Walker, but injuries lead to my disappointment. Laurent made Hall look better and if we signed Hickman from 2011 good deal, but he hasn't been the same since coming back from the NFL.
We need so many upgrades it's not even funny - QB, RB, OL, WR, DL, LB, DB's, the entire team! That's messed up IMO.
I was worried about Foley and Hickman lining up at the DE positions and having little depth behind them. I thought the Argos were solid at DT with Bulcke, Waud, Hall and that Munroe guy who ended up retiring. Bryan Hall might be a good indicator of the major problem in evaluating the DT position because of how chemistry with your fellow DT can make you look much better or much worse.
Yes, there are needs at every position group on the roster except for probably Lirim Hajrullahu.
hugoagogo
11-02-2016, 05:28 PM
Damian Cox blocked me after I called him on something. No name calling, no insults, just a friendly reply.
Me as well. Even when you are civil and want to have a discussion on twitter, if you disagree with his viewpoint and give rational reasons why, he blocks you. He says stupid crap for the sake of getting noticed. Hack.
Argo57
11-02-2016, 06:47 PM
Only signing I liked was Bulcke. I was hoping that Foley would regain his form, but it's two seasons in a row now that he's played poorly, time to cut bait IMO. I was expecting big things from Waud, and hoping to see more of Walker, but injuries lead to my disappointment. Laurent made Hall look better and if we signed Hickman from 2011 good deal, but he hasn't been the same since coming back from the NFL.
We need so many upgrades it's not even funny - QB, RB, OL, WR, DL, LB, DB's, the entire team! That's messed up IMO.
Valid points, really no better than an expansion team (minus the 1st round pick) at this time.
Valid points, really no better than an expansion team (minus the 1st round pick) at this time.
That should give us hope then, Ottawa went to the GC in year 2 lol.
argonaut11xx
11-02-2016, 06:54 PM
Damien Cox is human gutterfilth IMO. An anti Canadian loser, etc, etc.
That said I did attend a TFC game back in June/16, and I also took my 3 nephews to the Argo home opener.
The crowd energy was at a much higher level at the soccer game, and that pissed me off.
So as much as cox is an idiot who hates the CFL, it kills me knowing that the soccer team has a far more energized fan base than the Argos have.
The fact he was comparing a playoff soccer game to a "worst in CFL" Argo team, I understand.
BUT.
The stupid soccer team had the Argofans beat in terms of enthusiasm in the june/july games that were poorly attended by BOTH fan bases.
(I am only comparing the fan enthusiasm, cause the soccer game was as boring as watching paint dry)
That should give us hope then, Ottawa went to the GC in year 2 lol.
The Argonauts have gone from 4-14 to 15-3 (95-96) and 2-14 to 9-6-1 (81-82) in the past. The player personnel director will not have the luxury of a dispersal draft this year however.
Argo57
11-02-2016, 07:05 PM
That should give us hope then, Ottawa went to the GC in year 2 lol.
Ottawa's management team and coaching staff has done a masterful job in building a competitive team in a relatively short period of time.
Maybe the Argos will hire a staff capable of the same?
Ottawa's management team and coaching staff has done a masterful job in building a competitive team in a relatively short period of time.
Maybe the Argos will hire a staff capable of the same?
You know how I feel about the matter.
Ballstothewall
11-02-2016, 07:24 PM
This is the difference in how the 2 teams are covered. The very first ever playoff game for TFC in its entire history was played last week in front of an announced crowd of 21,000 well short of a sellout. Really meaning that 18,000 were in the seats. However this was never discussed in any of the media story's. It was reported as a very vocal crowd. Now, we all know if the Argos had a playoff game with announced crowd of 21,000 that would be the lead of any media report. A disappointing crowd of only 21,000 were in attendance, then we would also get that's" most of that crowd dressed as empty seats comment". We all recall the home opener in which the Argos fell 1800 short of a sellout and that was the story, not being the first Argo game played at BMO.. Interesting that MR Cox's also did not comment on the thousands of free tickets that we're given to Rogers employees for this last game either. If Bell did that for a Argo playoff game, you just know that would find its way into the story.
AngeloV
11-02-2016, 08:53 PM
This is the difference in how the 2 teams are covered. The very first ever playoff game for TFC in its entire history was played last week in front of an announced crowd of 21,000 well short of a sellout. Really meaning that 18,000 were in the seats. However this was never discussed in any of the media story's. It was reported as a very vocal crowd. Now, we all know if the Argos had a playoff game with announced crowd of 21,000 that would be the lead of any media report. A disappointing crowd of only 21,000 were in attendance, then we would also get that's" most of that crowd dressed as empty seats comment". We all recall the home opener in which the Argos fell 1800 short of a sellout and that was the story, not being the first Argo game played at BMO.. Interesting that MR Cox's also did not comment on the thousands of free tickets that we're given to Rogers employees for this last game either. If Bell did that for a Argo playoff game, you just know that would find its way into the story.
Well said!!
This is the difference in how the 2 teams are covered. The very first ever playoff game for TFC in its entire history was played last week in front of an announced crowd of 21,000 well short of a sellout. Really meaning that 18,000 were in the seats. However this was never discussed in any of the media story's. It was reported as a very vocal crowd. Now, we all know if the Argos had a playoff game with announced crowd of 21,000 that would be the lead of any media report. A disappointing crowd of only 21,000 were in attendance, then we would also get that's" most of that crowd dressed as empty seats comment". We all recall the home opener in which the Argos fell 1800 short of a sellout and that was the story, not being the first Argo game played at BMO.. Interesting that MR Cox's also did not comment on the thousands of free tickets that we're given to Rogers employees for this last game either. If Bell did that for a Argo playoff game, you just know that would find its way into the story.
Quite so. It is difficult in this world to be ethical, to have integrity, to shun hypocrisy. It is easy to be a panderer, a saboteur, a liar, a con artist.
RB957
11-02-2016, 09:34 PM
Damien Cox is human gutterfilth IMO. An anti Canadian loser, etc, etc.
That said I did attend a TFC game back in June/16, and I also took my 3 nephews to the Argo home opener.
The crowd energy was at a much higher level at the soccer game, and that pissed me off.
I will give the TFC fans their due, however to your point about Argo fans - the team didn't give them a whole lot to cheer about at home, winning only two games of nine. BUT..... the game against the Ti-Cats in September, the week after Labour Day was AMAZING. The vibe was so positive and the fan energy was outstanding. It was thrilling, and left me with a taste of what it could be like game in and game out if the team is competitive. Let's hope they make some positive changes for next year.
BorisToronto
11-02-2016, 09:57 PM
I will give the TFC fans their due, however to your point about Argo fans - the team didn't give them a whole lot to cheer about at home, winning only two games of nine. BUT..... the game against the Ti-Cats in September, the week after Labour Day was AMAZING. The vibe was so positive and the fan energy was outstanding. It was thrilling, and left me with a taste of what it could be like game in and game out if the team is competitive. Let's hope they make some positive changes for next year.
That game was indeed electric and my personal highlight of this season. LeFevour was just fun to watch and it helped a lot that it was a W for us. Let's get more of that in the house. Shall we?
LLB997
11-02-2016, 10:46 PM
mehhhhh, no biggie. Damien C@cks was understating the Argos for effect and most certainly overstating tfc. lets run a few things down here. I remember tfc fans claiming how a home playoff date would enthrall the whole city.....has this happened? neither playoff game has been a sellout and all ive been hearing in the sports media is Mcdavid v. Matthews for 3 days straight. I get no sense the city is even aware of the MLS playoffs. 200 thousand viewership for the playoffs..... this is Good??? He's compairing 2 minnows ....who cares. Damien was certainly just extending himself to insecure tfc fans. make no mistake, they are co tenants. And speaking of having no relevance at all. People read Damiens musings for FREE at Mcdonalds. Is this guy being paid in Mcnuggets?
ardesh
11-05-2016, 06:34 PM
Its pretty obvious TFC is the fourth team in the city and its not even close. The big 4 are the Jays, Leafs, Raptors and Toronto Fc. Every other team is rather minor.
However, on a glimmer of hope
#CFLGameDay
1,567 Tweets
Is trending on Twitter today!
(https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFLGameDay?src=tren)
Neely2005
11-05-2016, 06:41 PM
Its pretty obvious TFC is the fourth team in the city and its not even close. The big 4 are the Jays, Leafs, Raptors and Toronto Fc. Every other team is rather minor.
However, on a glimmer of hope
#CFLGameDay
1,567 Tweets
Is trending on Twitter today!
(https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFLGameDay?src=tren)
Yeah the 30,000 people watching regular season TFC games certainly backs that statement up.
Yeah the 30,000 people watching regular season TFC games certainly backs that statement up.
And the fact that the two playoff games this season looked half empty on the east side. Announced sellout for the second same IIRC.
Argo57
11-05-2016, 06:44 PM
Yeah the 30,000 people watching regular season TFC games certainly backs that statement up.
Not even worth responding Neely.
Wobbler
11-05-2016, 06:48 PM
Its pretty obvious TFC is the fourth team in the city and its not even close. The big 4 are the Jays, Leafs, Raptors and Toronto Fc. Every other team is rather minor.
You *might* be right about TFC's status but unfortunately you're trolling instead of contributing. If you want to participate (meaningfully), please try harder.
Neely2005
11-05-2016, 06:50 PM
And the fact that the two playoff games this season looked half empty on the east side. Announced sellout for the second same IIRC.
Plus Rogers and Bell gave away thousands of tickets to employees for free.
1971GreyCup
11-05-2016, 06:53 PM
The media, the reason for this thread, will never be the same. Just look at the U.S. elections where the "fifth estate" are now just shills for corporate interests and don't even hide their allegiances.
Plus Rogers and Bell gave away thousands of tickets to employees for free.
And outside of BMO, and near Union as well.
Neely2005
11-07-2016, 12:02 PM
And outside of BMO, and near Union as well.
Funny that no one in the media has mentioned that TFC is papering their playoff games and still can't sell out.
Jayahre
11-09-2016, 09:30 AM
Wow. You mean TFC gets a full house for it's first winning playoff run in it's long decade of existence? Little early to make TFC the predominant #4 team if one has any lick of unbiased opinion.
And notice how he shows the TFC TV rating when compared to the Raptors but excluded the TV rating Argo games get? Cox knowingly is fudging that since he's no noob when it comes to the CFL. He just knew actually using the Argo TV numbers would bury his argument.
Had the Argos gone 12-4 and hosting a East Final and TFC again having a losing season. BMO would be sold out for the Argos playoff game and Cox would NOT be writing any articles about the Argos being #4 and TFC being nobodies.
They couldn't sell out the inaugural game at BMO back in June with thousands of Hamilton fans buying tickets, I doubt a 12 -4 season and hosting a playoff game would sell anywhere near 20k, unless they can host Hamilton. Two home games this year against Hamilton boosted the attendance, I'm sure it would have been much lower than the announced 16k average without the Ticat fans.
As for TFC, you have to give their fans credit, 28k noisy fans coming out on a cold sunday evening. But if you look at their fans they seem to be mainly young 20 somethings and don't really care about the cold or that's it's a Sunday night.
Argoknot
11-11-2016, 04:21 PM
^We also have to give you credit for your TFC fan posts as slim at cfl.ca subtly jabbing anything CFL and praising anything TFC. Well done!
Also interesting that the Impact could sell 50k tickets maybe more and it is a great accomplishment (which it is) but if the Als did that the story would be why they were 10k short of a sellout and why couldn't they sellout a playoff game (reference opening game for Argos at BMO) Just wondering why there is this double standard but not surprising when the league is up against a mostly hostile Toronto media (save TSN) and some TFC and NFL fans that want to see the little league dead. Why the Argos/CFL threaten them is well beyond me.
Argoknot
11-11-2016, 04:37 PM
And notice how he shows the TFC TV rating when compared to the Raptors but excluded the TV rating Argo games get? Cox knowingly is fudging that since he's no noob when it comes to the CFL. He just knew actually using the Argo TV numbers would bury his argument.
Had the Argos gone 12-4 and hosting a East Final and TFC again having a losing season. BMO would be sold out for the Argos playoff game and Cox would NOT be writing any articles about the Argos being #4 and TFC being nobodies.NHL, Canucks-Leafs/Sabres-Sens/Oilers-Isles/Flyers-Habs, Saturday, CBC-Sportsnet-City: 2,200,000
NFL, Colts-Packers/Saints-Niners, Sunday, CTV: 848,000
NHL, Flames at Kings, Saturday, CBC-Sportsnet: 678,000
NFL, Steelers-Ravens/Eagles-Giants/Lions-Vikes, Sunday, CTV: 670,000
CFL, Roughriders at Lions, Saturday, TSN: 582,000
NHL, Hockey Central, Saturday, CBC-Sportsnet-City: 503,000
CFL, Argonauts at Eskimos, Saturday, TSN: 491,000
NHL, Jets at Rangers, Sunday, Sportsnet-360: 440,000
CFL, Blue Bombers at Redblacks, Saturday, TSN: 387,000
CFL, Alouettes at Tiger-Cats, Saturday, TSN: 364,000
NFL, Broncos at Raiders, Sunday, TSN: 316,000 (NBC audience not measured)
NBA, Kings at Raptors, Sunday, Sportsnet One: 244,000
MLS, TFC at NYC, Sunday, TSN: 221,000
NHL, Flames at Ducks, Sunday, Sportsnet One: 215,000
NHL, Oilers at Red Wings, Sunday, Sportsnet West: 212,000
MLS, Montreal at NY Red Bulls, Sunday, TSN: 181,000
Speed skating, Short-track World Cup, Saturday, CBC: 179,000
Figure skating, Rostelecom Cup, Saturday, CBC: 164,000
Figure skating, Rostelecom Cup, Sunday, CBC: 155,000
Soccer, Premier League games, Saturday, TSN: 118,000
Soccer, Watford at Liverpool, Saturday, TSN: 117,000
NHL, Jets at Red Wings, Friday, TSN Regional: 106,000
Soccer, Tottenham at Arsenal, Sunday, TSN: 105,000
Auto racing, NASCAR AAA Texas 500, Sunday, TSN 105,000
ArgoGabe22
11-11-2016, 04:58 PM
With those numbers, I'm guessing Rod Black no longer does figure skating.
mint83
11-11-2016, 05:40 PM
NHL, Canucks-Leafs/Sabres-Sens/Oilers-Isles/Flyers-Habs, Saturday, CBC-Sportsnet-City: 2,200,000
NFL, Colts-Packers/Saints-Niners, Sunday, CTV: 848,000
NHL, Flames at Kings, Saturday, CBC-Sportsnet: 678,000
NFL, Steelers-Ravens/Eagles-Giants/Lions-Vikes, Sunday, CTV: 670,000
CFL, Roughriders at Lions, Saturday, TSN: 582,000
NHL, Hockey Central, Saturday, CBC-Sportsnet-City: 503,000
CFL, Argonauts at Eskimos, Saturday, TSN: 491,000
NHL, Jets at Rangers, Sunday, Sportsnet-360: 440,000
CFL, Blue Bombers at Redblacks, Saturday, TSN: 387,000
CFL, Alouettes at Tiger-Cats, Saturday, TSN: 364,000
NFL, Broncos at Raiders, Sunday, TSN: 316,000 (NBC audience not measured)
NBA, Kings at Raptors, Sunday, Sportsnet One: 244,000
MLS, TFC at NYC, Sunday, TSN: 221,000
NHL, Flames at Ducks, Sunday, Sportsnet One: 215,000
NHL, Oilers at Red Wings, Sunday, Sportsnet West: 212,000
MLS, Montreal at NY Red Bulls, Sunday, TSN: 181,000
Speed skating, Short-track World Cup, Saturday, CBC: 179,000
Figure skating, Rostelecom Cup, Saturday, CBC: 164,000
Figure skating, Rostelecom Cup, Sunday, CBC: 155,000
Soccer, Premier League games, Saturday, TSN: 118,000
Soccer, Watford at Liverpool, Saturday, TSN: 117,000
NHL, Jets at Red Wings, Friday, TSN Regional: 106,000
Soccer, Tottenham at Arsenal, Sunday, TSN: 105,000
Auto racing, NASCAR AAA Texas 500, Sunday, TSN 105,000
Does anyone know what the overall CFL regular season TV rating average was in 2016 and how it compares to 2015?
......Same question for MLS.
Argoknot
11-11-2016, 06:34 PM
^The Great Canadian Ratings Report: Labour Day produces classic TV audiences for CFL (https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/the-great-canadian-ratings-report-202257020.html)
Chris Zelkovich Eh Game 7 September, 2016
It's long been said that the CFL season doesn't really get started until Labour Day, which always made more than a few people wonder why so many fans bothered to show up those first two months.
Regardless, it's a long-standing belief and the CFL is certainly hoping that it bears out this season. If this year's Labour Day Classic schedule is any indication, the league is in for a big bounceback in its television numbers.
Prior to the first weekend in September, CFL ratings were showing some improvement: up 7 per cent overall and up an impressive 14 per cent in the much-valued 18-49 age bracket.
Until the top rated game of the season vs the Impact (pre September 18) that had over 100k, and the playoff game above, the TFC season average was an incredibly abysmal 38k. Looks like TSN is not renewing because of this.
http://i65.tinypic.com/a0w0wh.jpg
It will be interesting to see how MLS ratings are for the Toronto-Montreal series.
Argoknot
11-11-2016, 06:39 PM
With those numbers, I'm guessing Rod Black no longer does figure skating. Not exactly a big time competition to broadcast.
I would imagine that the Argo game getting 491K must mean people in the GTA were watching
Neely2005
11-11-2016, 08:08 PM
NHL, Canucks-Leafs/Sabres-Sens/Oilers-Isles/Flyers-Habs, Saturday, CBC-Sportsnet-City: 2,200,000
NFL, Colts-Packers/Saints-Niners, Sunday, CTV: 848,000
NHL, Flames at Kings, Saturday, CBC-Sportsnet: 678,000
NFL, Steelers-Ravens/Eagles-Giants/Lions-Vikes, Sunday, CTV: 670,000
CFL, Roughriders at Lions, Saturday, TSN: 582,000
NHL, Hockey Central, Saturday, CBC-Sportsnet-City: 503,000
CFL, Argonauts at Eskimos, Saturday, TSN: 491,000
NHL, Jets at Rangers, Sunday, Sportsnet-360: 440,000
CFL, Blue Bombers at Redblacks, Saturday, TSN: 387,000
CFL, Alouettes at Tiger-Cats, Saturday, TSN: 364,000
NFL, Broncos at Raiders, Sunday, TSN: 316,000 (NBC audience not measured)
NBA, Kings at Raptors, Sunday, Sportsnet One: 244,000
MLS, TFC at NYC, Sunday, TSN: 221,000
NHL, Flames at Ducks, Sunday, Sportsnet One: 215,000
NHL, Oilers at Red Wings, Sunday, Sportsnet West: 212,000
MLS, Montreal at NY Red Bulls, Sunday, TSN: 181,000
Speed skating, Short-track World Cup, Saturday, CBC: 179,000
Figure skating, Rostelecom Cup, Saturday, CBC: 164,000
Figure skating, Rostelecom Cup, Sunday, CBC: 155,000
Soccer, Premier League games, Saturday, TSN: 118,000
Soccer, Watford at Liverpool, Saturday, TSN: 117,000
NHL, Jets at Red Wings, Friday, TSN Regional: 106,000
Soccer, Tottenham at Arsenal, Sunday, TSN: 105,000
Auto racing, NASCAR AAA Texas 500, Sunday, TSN 105,000
So a meaningless Argonauts game crushed a TFC playoff game.
Argoknot
11-11-2016, 08:22 PM
So a meaningless Argonauts game crushed a TFC playoff game.In a word, yes, and likely (until the series against Montreal) the most meaningful game in TFC history. And to me that is a relatively poor CFL number.
Argoknot
11-11-2016, 08:27 PM
I would imagine that the Argo game getting 491K must mean people in the GTA were watchingWhile I can't prove it, I would think the large fluctuation in Argo numbers would indicate that it is people from the GTA watching and not as the haterz keep telling us the people of Saskatchewan. When the Argos had the 900k game did the people of Saskatchewan suddenly prefer the Argos over their own Riders? When the Argos floundered so did their numbers.
Toronto team ratings are driven by the massive numbers of people in the GTA. When the Jays and Raps had playoff success the numbers boomed, both were behind the CFL before that.
argotom
11-11-2016, 10:06 PM
MLS games all draw numbers worse than infomercials, family and friends.
ArgoRavi
11-12-2016, 03:45 AM
Does anyone know what the overall CFL regular season TV rating average was in 2016 and how it compares to 2015?
......Same question for MLS.
I don't know the MLS numbers but the CFL numbers have been tracking higher this season than last year up until two or three weeks ago at least. And that is despite an awful lot of competition against the CFL this year such as the Olympics, the Blue Jays' run, and World Cup of Hockey. If the Riders and Argos had both had better seasons this year, we would have seen even higher TV numbers IMO.
PullTogether73
11-12-2016, 05:49 AM
NHL, Canucks-Leafs/Sabres-Sens/Oilers-Isles/Flyers-Habs, Saturday, CBC-Sportsnet-City: 2,200,000
NFL, Colts-Packers/Saints-Niners, Sunday, CTV: 848,000
NHL, Flames at Kings, Saturday, CBC-Sportsnet: 678,000
NFL, Steelers-Ravens/Eagles-Giants/Lions-Vikes, Sunday, CTV: 670,000
CFL, Roughriders at Lions, Saturday, TSN: 582,000
NHL, Hockey Central, Saturday, CBC-Sportsnet-City: 503,000
CFL, Argonauts at Eskimos, Saturday, TSN: 491,000
NHL, Jets at Rangers, Sunday, Sportsnet-360: 440,000
CFL, Blue Bombers at Redblacks, Saturday, TSN: 387,000
CFL, Alouettes at Tiger-Cats, Saturday, TSN: 364,000
NFL, Broncos at Raiders, Sunday, TSN: 316,000 (NBC audience not measured)
NBA, Kings at Raptors, Sunday, Sportsnet One: 244,000
MLS, TFC at NYC, Sunday, TSN: 221,000
NHL, Flames at Ducks, Sunday, Sportsnet One: 215,000
NHL, Oilers at Red Wings, Sunday, Sportsnet West: 212,000
MLS, Montreal at NY Red Bulls, Sunday, TSN: 181,000
Speed skating, Short-track World Cup, Saturday, CBC: 179,000
Figure skating, Rostelecom Cup, Saturday, CBC: 164,000
Figure skating, Rostelecom Cup, Sunday, CBC: 155,000
Soccer, Premier League games, Saturday, TSN: 118,000
Soccer, Watford at Liverpool, Saturday, TSN: 117,000
NHL, Jets at Red Wings, Friday, TSN Regional: 106,000
Soccer, Tottenham at Arsenal, Sunday, TSN: 105,000
Auto racing, NASCAR AAA Texas 500, Sunday, TSN 105,000
Never mind the TFC number above...why does everyone assume that the Raptors are such a big deal?
Barely above TFC in viewership, and well below all four CFL games, including a nothing game between Hamilton and Montreal.
I don't get the assumption that the Raptors are so widely followed.
Argoknot
11-12-2016, 05:59 AM
Never mind the TFC number above...why does everyone assume that the Raptors are such a big deal?
Barely above TFC in viewership, and well below all four CFL games, including a nothing game between Hamilton and Montreal.
I don't get the assumption that the Raptors are so widely followed.The Raptors were never a big deal until their playoff run which is what also makes the treatment of the CFL so galling. And the Hamilton/Montreal numbers are much higher because the number above doesn't include RDS.
ArgoZ
11-12-2016, 01:02 PM
While I can't prove it, I would think the large fluctuation in Argo numbers would indicate that it is people from the GTA watching and not as the haterz keep telling us the people of Saskatchewan. When the Argos had the 900k game did the people of Saskatchewan suddenly prefer the Argos over their own Riders? When the Argos floundered so did their numbers.
Toronto team ratings are driven by the massive numbers of people in the GTA. When the Jays and Raps had playoff success the numbers boomed, both were behind the CFL before that.
Do people really believe that the majority of viewers that watch an Argonauts vs RedBlacks/Cats/Montreal game come from out West? I think very few are even turning in, during a glorious summer. That argument falters even more when the Cats play Sask and next week the Cats draw a bigger number playing the Argos. So Sask viewers preferred the Argos to Riders? LOL
Neely2005
11-12-2016, 03:45 PM
Does anyone know what the overall CFL regular season TV rating average was in 2016 and how it compares to 2015?
......Same question for MLS.
TFC was averaging TV ratings of 32,000 per game in the regular season.
ArgoRavi
11-12-2016, 06:07 PM
Never mind the TFC number above...why does everyone assume that the Raptors are such a big deal?
Barely above TFC in viewership, and well below all four CFL games, including a nothing game between Hamilton and Montreal.
I don't get the assumption that the Raptors are so widely followed.
Have a look at this recent column by Chris Zelkovich: https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/can-the-toronto-raptors-finally-make-a-dent-in-the-world-of-sports-television-153155409.html
If my reading is correct, Raptors "fans" don't actually watch the full games but only bits and pieces at best. They may only watch the highlights but do so in big numbers. This reminds me of the old saying that you only need to watch the final 5 minutes of a basketball game as the rest of the game is irrelevant. I guess that many of the Raptors' followers feel that way.
RB957
11-15-2016, 08:40 AM
Here is a link to Damien Cox's most recent column in the the Toronto Star this morning:
https://www.thestar.com/sports/football/2016/11/14/it-seems-the-us-is-finally-ready-for-some-football-cox.html
The last bit of the column is the best, and is great to see for all CFL fans. I have reprinted it below:
In Canada, after Rogers and Sportsnet owned September and October with strong World Cup of Hockey and Blue Jays ratings, these NFL games delivered good numbers for Bell and TSN, which really needs football to drive its numbers these days. Interestingly, the NFL games drew about half the eyeballs on Canadian airwaves than did the CFL playoff games.
Those contests were entertaining and tight in Hamilton and Vancouver, but the loss of the Tiger-Cats as a possible contestant for the Nov. 27 Grey Cup Game at BMO Field takes away a potentially good draw from a game that’s having trouble selling tickets. Edmonton won the game but may have lost quarterback Mike Rielly to injury, while out west Winnipeg’s first winning season in a while crashed to an abrupt conclusion against the Lions.
Still, the CFL stood strong against the NFL up here, good news indeed for Jeffrey Orridge’s league, which has suffered through awful football in Eastern Canada this year and lousy seasons in the key football markets of Toronto and Regina.
With the NHL and NBA just getting revved up, this should be football’s month in Canada. The NFL and CFL may deal in different dimensions, but both could surely use a run of entertaining games to remind people they are as relevant as ever.
ArgoRavi
11-15-2016, 11:31 AM
Here is a link to Damien Cox's most recent column in the the Toronto Star this morning:
https://www.thestar.com/sports/football/2016/11/14/it-seems-the-us-is-finally-ready-for-some-football-cox.html
The last bit of the column is the best, and is great to see for all CFL fans. I have reprinted it below:
In Canada, after Rogers and Sportsnet owned September and October with strong World Cup of Hockey and Blue Jays ratings, these NFL games delivered good numbers for Bell and TSN, which really needs football to drive its numbers these days. Interestingly, the NFL games drew about half the eyeballs on Canadian airwaves than did the CFL playoff games.
Those contests were entertaining and tight in Hamilton and Vancouver, but the loss of the Tiger-Cats as a possible contestant for the Nov. 27 Grey Cup Game at BMO Field takes away a potentially good draw from a game that’s having trouble selling tickets. Edmonton won the game but may have lost quarterback Mike Rielly to injury, while out west Winnipeg’s first winning season in a while crashed to an abrupt conclusion against the Lions.
Still, the CFL stood strong against the NFL up here, good news indeed for Jeffrey Orridge’s league, which has suffered through awful football in Eastern Canada this year and lousy seasons in the key football markets of Toronto and Regina.
With the NHL and NBA just getting revved up, this should be football’s month in Canada. The NFL and CFL may deal in different dimensions, but both could surely use a run of entertaining games to remind people they are as relevant as ever.
I wonder why Cox's article focused mostly on the NFL then.
Shipyard
11-15-2016, 12:49 PM
TFC was averaging TV ratings of 32,000 per game in the regular season.
actually it was 38k ... LMOL
argotom
11-15-2016, 02:44 PM
actually it was 38k ... LMOL
Big deal, family and friends numbers way below informercial figures.
Downtownfan
11-15-2016, 03:13 PM
From a CP article, one that paints a much different picture of TFC than you usually hear. While the team has many positives, such as season tickets and overall attendance, it is not all rosy. https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/toronto-fc-president-see-bright-213419470.html
But hey, would you ever hear that...
"While Toronto FC is enjoying its most successful season on the pitch, the MLS franchise won't make money this season. ...The team tracks both paid attendance and the actual turnstile count at BMO Field. The gap between the two narrowed by 3,000 each game this season even though paid tickets were only up 1,500 a match. ...The team only gets about 100 walkup fans a game, Manning said.... ...While he was happy with playoff audiences of more than 200,000, regular season ratings were down this year. He hopes to discuss scheduling and numbers with his TV partners in the off-season...."
AngeloV
11-15-2016, 03:17 PM
From a CP article, one that paints a much different picture of TFC than you usually hear. While the team has many positives, such as season tickets and overall attendance, it is not all rosy. https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/toronto-fc-president-see-bright-213419470.html
But hey, would you ever hear that...
"While Toronto FC is enjoying its most successful season on the pitch, the MLS franchise won't make money this season. ...The team tracks both paid attendance and the actual turnstile count at BMO Field. The gap between the two narrowed by 3,000 each game this season even though paid tickets were only up 1,500 a match. ...The team only gets about 100 walkup fans a game, Manning said.... ...While he was happy with playoff audiences of more than 200,000, regular season ratings were down this year. He hopes to discuss scheduling and numbers with his TV partners in the off-season...."
All kidding aside, their season is just way too long with the ridiculous amount of FIFA mandated breaks. If the CFL had 2 week breaks between each round of the playoffs, people wouldn't hesitate to call it out as a bush league.
Shipyard
11-15-2016, 04:47 PM
From a CP article, one that paints a much different picture of TFC than you usually hear. While the team has many positives, such as season tickets and overall attendance, it is not all rosy. https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/toronto-fc-president-see-bright-213419470.html
But hey, would you ever hear that...
"While Toronto FC is enjoying its most successful season on the pitch, the MLS franchise won't make money this season. ...The team tracks both paid attendance and the actual turnstile count at BMO Field. The gap between the two narrowed by 3,000 each game this season even though paid tickets were only up 1,500 a match. ...The team only gets about 100 walkup fans a game, Manning said.... ...While he was happy with playoff audiences of more than 200,000, regular season ratings were down this year. He hopes to discuss scheduling and numbers with his TV partners in the off-season...."
Still don't get why MLSE looks at losing $15-$20million a season on TFC as good business .. thats more than they paid for the franchise.
Still don't get why MLSE looks at losing $15-$20million a season on TFC as good business .. thats more than they paid for the franchise.
The entire MLS is basing their financial situation on future value, hoping that a mega media deal comes their way. That's the reason why they feel expansion fees should be over $100 million, but the fact that they are finding people who are willing to pay it, is just further proof IMO that a lot of people have more money than brains.
Even the Whitecaps are fudging numbers
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Average attendance at BC Place. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WhitecapsFC?src=hash">#WhitecapsFC</a> <br><br>Announced: 20,889<br>Actual: 17,537<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/BCLions?src=hash">#BCLions</a> <br><br>Announced: 19,749 <br>Actual: 14,579 <a href="https://t.co/VRJsokZ5EN">https://t.co/VRJsokZ5EN</a></p>— Mike Martignago (@MikeMartignago) <a href="https://twitter.com/MikeMartignago/status/798635635447730176">November 15, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
RB957
11-15-2016, 06:08 PM
I wonder why Cox's article focused mostly on the NFL then.
I think it is because he has always been biased towards the NFL. However, he could not overlook that the CFL numbers were better. I see it as grudging acknowledgement not boasting. Doesn't matter though, because the numbers speak for themselves and to me shows that there is legitimate interest in Canadian football.
Scooter McCray
11-15-2016, 07:40 PM
I still think that if the media covered the Argos proportionally to their viewership they would be relevant in this market. Instead the Argos have to pull rabbits out of their hats to market and hope the media take notice.
Mulder
11-16-2016, 08:04 AM
From a CP article, one that paints a much different picture of TFC than you usually hear. While the team has many positives, such as season tickets and overall attendance, it is not all rosy. https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/toronto-fc-president-see-bright-213419470.html
But hey, would you ever hear that...
"While Toronto FC is enjoying its most successful season on the pitch, the MLS franchise won't make money this season. ...The team tracks both paid attendance and the actual turnstile count at BMO Field. The gap between the two narrowed by 3,000 each game this season even though paid tickets were only up 1,500 a match. ...The team only gets about 100 walkup fans a game, Manning said.... ...While he was happy with playoff audiences of more than 200,000, regular season ratings were down this year. He hopes to discuss scheduling and numbers with his TV partners in the off-season...."
I've been calling this a for a few years now.
MLSE has bent over backwards to give their fanbase what they want. It started with Grass, then they still weren't fielding a good team MLSE could sense a revolt happening among the season ticket base, the cut existing season ticket prices in half with little media attention. (Remember that when Argos announce next years pricing). And now finally invested some money into the team and a winning season, and look ratings are down, and they didn't sell out the first playoff game in history. It's pretty much the same 20,000 people going to every game, and yet you have some members of that fanbase calling for their own 50,000 seat stadium in 5-10 years...
As for the TFC vs Argos debate that has raged for years. It's pretty clear which side started it, and for the most part instead of having a rational debate about the merits of both leagues in this city one side has actively snuffed out opposing viewpoints, raged social media war and hoped for the death of a team. It hasn't been until recently that some Argo Fans (including this site) have been using their own tactics against them. I don't hate TFC, I hate what is likely a vocal minority of their fanbase doing such actions. Thus, it's been really hard for Argo Fans to even like TFC.
I've been calling this a for a few years now.
MLSE has bent over backwards to give their fanbase what they want. It started with Grass, then they still weren't fielding a good team MLSE could sense a revolt happening among the season ticket base, the cut existing season ticket prices in half with little media attention. (Remember that when Argos announce next years pricing). And now finally invested some money into the team and a winning season, and look ratings are down, and they didn't sell out the first playoff game in history. It's pretty much the same 20,000 people going to every game, and yet you have some members of that fanbase calling for their own 50,000 seat stadium in 5-10 years...
As for the TFC vs Argos debate that has raged for years. It's pretty clear which side started it, and for the most part instead of having a rational debate about the merits of both leagues in this city one side has actively snuffed out opposing viewpoints, raged social media war and hoped for the death of a team. It hasn't been until recently that some Argo Fans (including this site) have been using their own tactics against them. I don't hate TFC, I hate what is likely a vocal minority of their fanbase doing such actions. Thus, it's been really hard for Argo Fans to even like TFC.
I totally agree.
Put that vocal minority aside, I'd be probably neutral about TFC.
Jayahre
11-16-2016, 11:07 AM
I still think that if the media covered the Argos proportionally to their viewership they would be relevant in this market. Instead the Argos have to pull rabbits out of their hats to market and hope the media take notice.
I think that the Sun has extensive coverage of the Argos through the season. Lots of coverage too about the move to BMO, the ownership change, the marketing with the posters on the TTC, the ads on TV with the players running through the Princes gates. The coverage about the Shipyards concerts, the tailgating, the $4 beers. What more could they have done?
How can the media not ignore 12k fans showing up for the second game and the 16k average over the season?
Some people get upset when the media reports on TFC or that they averaged over 26k this season and 17k season tickets, and that is over 20 home games a year, not just the 9 that the Argos play.
You can't ignore that fact that TFC has already sold more tickets for their game at BMO on Nov 30th than Grey Cup tickets sold.
As for TV ratings, it's really irrelevant for a league that is gate driven, the CFL has sold their broadcast rights to TSN until 2022.
We don't even know what the TV ratings breakdown for the CFL is in Toronto, we have no idea how many in Toronto are watching the Argos. If an Argo game gets 500k viewers we don't know how many in the city are watching, 480k of the viewers could be the loyal CFL viewers watching across Canada.
Maybe the article by Cox wouldn't have upset Argo fans if he had just reported on the success of TFC and not mentioned or compared to the Argos. But it's hard to ignore what has happened to TFC and the Argos. The same trend is happening in Montreal, the Impact out drawing the Als and they have sold 50k tickets for their playoff game against TFC.
Godfather
11-16-2016, 01:41 PM
I've been calling this a for a few years now.
MLSE has bent over backwards to give their fanbase what they want. It started with Grass, then they still weren't fielding a good team MLSE could sense a revolt happening among the season ticket base, the cut existing season ticket prices in half with little media attention. (Remember that when Argos announce next years pricing). And now finally invested some money into the team and a winning season, and look ratings are down, and they didn't sell out the first playoff game in history. It's pretty much the same 20,000 people going to every game, and yet you have some members of that fanbase calling for their own 50,000 seat stadium in 5-10 years...
As for the TFC vs Argos debate that has raged for years. It's pretty clear which side started it, and for the most part instead of having a rational debate about the merits of both leagues in this city one side has actively snuffed out opposing viewpoints, raged social media war and hoped for the death of a team. It hasn't been until recently that some Argo Fans (including this site) have been using their own tactics against them. I don't hate TFC, I hate what is likely a vocal minority of their fanbase doing such actions. Thus, it's been really hard for Argo Fans to even like TFC.
You can never believe team owners when they say that teams are not making money. If they admit teams make money then fans want lower prices and players want more money. I think that TFC, through synergies with other Rogers/Bell/MLSE interests (along with the argos) is providing a financial benefit to its owners. However, I do think that if MLS goes under it will be due to an inability to control player salaries (a lesson the CFL learned).
Argoknot
11-16-2016, 03:05 PM
I've been calling this a for a few years now.
MLSE has bent over backwards to give their fanbase what they want. It started with Grass, then they still weren't fielding a good team MLSE could sense a revolt happening among the season ticket base, the cut existing season ticket prices in half with little media attention. (Remember that when Argos announce next years pricing). And now finally invested some money into the team and a winning season, and look ratings are down, and they didn't sell out the first playoff game in history. It's pretty much the same 20,000 people going to every game, and yet you have some members of that fanbase calling for their own 50,000 seat stadium in 5-10 years...
As for the TFC vs Argos debate that has raged for years. It's pretty clear which side started it, and for the most part instead of having a rational debate about the merits of both leagues in this city one side has actively snuffed out opposing viewpoints, raged social media war and hoped for the death of a team. It hasn't been until recently that some Argo Fans (including this site) have been using their own tactics against them. I don't hate TFC, I hate what is likely a vocal minority of their fanbase doing such actions. Thus, it's been really hard for Argo Fans to even like TFC.Post of the year candidate!
Argoknot
11-16-2016, 03:10 PM
Maybe the article by Cox wouldn't have upset Argo fans if he had just reported on the success of TFC and not mentioned or compared to the Argos. But it's hard to ignore what has happened to TFC and the Argos. The same trend is happening in Montreal, the Impact out drawing the Als and they have sold 50k tickets for their playoff game against TFC.And maybe if you weren't one of the people Mulder was referring to about raging social media war against the league and Argos we might take what you say seriously. But at least you are allowed to get your insidious shots in (as if we are too stupid to figure it out), but if the shoe were on the other foot at the TFC website, you'd be banned after one post.
Argoknot
11-16-2016, 03:12 PM
I totally agree. Put that vocal minority aside, I'd be probably neutral about TFC.I'll go even farther, if it wasn't for them I might even support TFC. But those aholes wanted it that way, so be it.
Here's something I find funny, TFC is supposed to be made up of PC/SJW millennials, but they are the most sexist and exclusive fan bases there is. And yet the stodgy old CFL has actively campaigned to embrace the LGBT community. Go figure, things are never as they seem.
Mulder
11-17-2016, 10:08 AM
You can never believe team owners when they say that teams are not making money. If they admit teams make money then fans want lower prices and players want more money. I think that TFC, through synergies with other Rogers/Bell/MLSE interests (along with the argos) is providing a financial benefit to its owners. However, I do think that if MLS goes under it will be due to an inability to control player salaries (a lesson the CFL learned).
Lots of similarities between the designated player rule in MLS and what happened to the CFL in the early 90's.
People seem to take some comfort that the league holds the players contracts, give it more of a safety net but if the whole structure fails then MLS will fail..
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