2016-2017 Offseason transactions

[Wobbler]

After extending Shawn Lemon and Jake Reinhart last week, today the Argos signed (http://www.durhamregion.com/sports-story/7008293-toronto-argonauts-sign-four-players/):

Chris Kolankowski (OL, NAT)
Malcolm Williams (WR, NAT)
Ryan Hawkins (K, INT)
Brandon Washington (OG, INT)

(Williams and Washington spent most of last year on our PR)

[Wobbler]

Corey Watman also extended (http://www.niagarathisweek.com/sports-story/7010374-argonauts-sign-lineman-watman-to-extension/)

[R.J]

http://www.argonauts.ca/2016/12/15/argos-add-lineman-and-pair-of-receivers/

he Toronto Argonauts announced today that the team has signed international receivers Jameon Lewis and Joe Morgan, as well as international offensive lineman Davonte Wallace.

[jerrym]

Argos have signed DBs Ri'shard Anderson and Winstion Rose for 2017. Both were on PR in 2016.

http://www.argonauts.ca/2016/12/05/argos-add-2/

[Neely2005]

Canadian kicker and punter Lirim*Hajrullahu has signed a one-year contract extension with the Argos, per sources:

http://3downnation.com/2017/01/11/argos-extend-canadian-kicker/

[Will]

Canadian kicker and punter Lirim*Hajrullahu has signed a one-year contract extension with the Argos, per sources:

http://3downnation.com/2017/01/11/argos-extend-canadian-kicker/

Good news! Kicking and punting is probably the only area (with perhaps the exception of one DE spot) where an upgrade is not required.

[Neely2005]

Canadian kicker and punter Lirim*Hajrullahu has signed a one-year contract extension with the Argos, per sources:

http://3downnation.com/2017/01/11/argos-extend-canadian-kicker/

Weird that the Argonauts have officially announced this signing but still nothing official on the Willy re-signing.

http://www.argonauts.ca/2017/01/11/east-division-all-star-lirim-hajrullahu-signs-extension-with-argos/

[Will]

Would it have something to do with waiting until January 15 when that bonus was due to kick in?

[gilthethrill]

Good work by Barker on extending LH. With Willy at QB our punting game will be called upon a lot. :)

[doubleblue]

Good work by Barker on extending LH. With Willy at QB our punting game will be called upon a lot. :)

I think I can put you in the quite a few "two and out" category. ;)

[R.J]

Happy to see Hajrullahu back coming back.

[ArgoGabe22]

Tyler Holmes signs a 2 year contract.

[Neely2005]

Tyler Holmes re-signs:

http://3downnation.com/2017/01/11/canadian-ol-tyler-holmes-inks-extension-argos/

[gilthethrill]

Barker is doing a real good job of locking key core players. Free agent period and FA camps are going to be real interesting to see who signs to go along with the incumbents.

[paulwoods13]

Wow. I was really worried Holmes would sign in Ottawa. He wasn't great last season but he's still a cornerstone-type piece. Cutting Bourke freed up some money -- I assume Holmes will be our highest-paid o-lineman.

[Will]

Wow. I was really worried Holmes would sign in Ottawa. He wasn't great last season but he's still a cornerstone-type piece. Cutting Bourke freed up some money -- I assume Holmes will be our highest-paid o-lineman.

Holmes had an opportunity to sign with Ottawa a few years ago and did not so I'm not surprised.

[stuntdog]

Anthony Coombs has signed a two-year extension with the Argos according to Justin Dunk on 3 Down Nation (http://3downnation.com/2017/01/11/national-running-backreceiver-re-ups-toronto/)

I'm pleasantly surprised by this.

[R.J]

Anthony Coombs has signed a two-year extension with the Argos according to Justin Dunk on 3 Down Nation (http://3downnation.com/2017/01/11/national-running-backreceiver-re-ups-toronto/)

I'm pleasantly surprised by this.
As am I. I'm really surprised actually.

[gilthethrill]

Wow. I was really worried Holmes would sign in Ottawa. He wasn't great last season but he's still a cornerstone-type piece. Cutting Bourke freed up some money -- I assume Holmes will be our highest-paid o-lineman.

Do you think Holmes would get more salary than Van Zeyl? Do you think Barker will bring CVZ back?

[gilthethrill]

As am I. I'm really surprised actually.

Me too. I hope the coaches can get a defined role for him and use him more. Will AD be back after this signing?

[OV Argo]

Wow. I was really worried Holmes would sign in Ottawa. He wasn't great last season but he's still a cornerstone-type piece. Cutting Bourke freed up some money -- I assume Holmes will be our highest-paid o-lineman.


Not sure Holmes would make the starting Ottawa O-line. Nolan MacMillan (a free agent currently) is better IMO and younger; maybe he could beat out J'Michael Deane at the other guard spot, but the RedBlacks have former top draft pick Alex Mateas in the wings - to take over at one of the interior O-line spots - current vet C Jon Gott is considered still pretty strong i think.

Doubt Holmes woulda got big starter money out of Ottawa.

[AngeloV]

Anthony Coombs has signed a two-year extension with the Argos according to Justin Dunk on 3 Down Nation (http://3downnation.com/2017/01/11/national-running-backreceiver-re-ups-toronto/)

I'm pleasantly surprised by this.

I'm not surprised at all. I personally don't buy the crap being said on here about Argos management.

[OV Argo]

As am I. I'm really surprised actually.


Why? - did you think he would command big or even decent CFL buck$, or did you see another CFL team having big interest in him (a Canadian tailback with a bit of slotback experience now)?

I doubt Coombs is all of a sudden going to play a big or bigger role in the same old Millanovich offence; that hybrid slot spot might get changed since it has not been near as productive since Durie's hey-days there, or maybe another receiver (like Spencer) might get a shot at it.

I like Coombs and glad he is still around - versatile guy who could play both as a 2nd RB plus still some receiver, and maybe return some kicks too.

[paulwoods13]

Holmes had an opportunity to sign with Ottawa a few years ago and did not so I'm not surprised.

Yeah, but they're a contending team now and there's always the pull of family. Someone close to the Argo org (but not in football ops) told me recently he thought Holmes was getting pressure from his folks to sign there. Regardless, very glad he didn't.

[paulwoods13]

Do you think Holmes would get more salary than Van Zeyl? Do you think Barker will bring CVZ back?

IMO he should get more than CVZ at this stage of their careers. The latter seems to be on the downside, while Holmes is in his prime. I assume CVZ will be re-signed, but would not be shocked if he isn't.

[paulwoods13]

Why? - did you think he would command big or even decent CFL buck$, or did you see another CFL team having big interest in him (a Canadian tailback with a bit of slotback experience now)?

I doubt Coombs is all of a sudden going to play a big or bigger role in the same old Millanovich offence; that hybrid slot spot might get changed since it has not been near as productive since Durie's hey-days there, or maybe another receiver (like Spencer) might get a shot at it.

I like Coombs and glad he is still around - versatile guy who could play both as a 2nd RB plus still some receiver, and maybe return some kicks too.

I'm glad he's back as well, but like SR I thought there was a good chance he'd leave. Two major factors: 1. He didn't get used much in 2016, and 2. He's from Manitoba and sometimes guys (especially out west -- see Andrew Harris) like to play at home. Anyway, glad he resisted the lure of free agency as he could be a cornerstone receiver going forward. IMO he's too small to play regularly at TB but I'd like him to get 35-50 carries per year (2-3 per game) as it would keep him more involved and would create some problems for the defence. I have always liked handoffs and pitches to guys who don't usually line up at TB.

[R.J]

I'm glad he's back as well, but like SR I thought there was a good chance he'd leave. Two major factors: 1. He didn't get used much in 2016, and 2. He's from Manitoba and sometimes guys (especially out west -- see Andrew Harris) like to play at home. Anyway, glad he resisted the lure of free agency as he could be a cornerstone receiver going forward. IMO he's too small to play regularly at TB but I'd like him to get 35-50 carries per year (2-3 per game) as it would keep him more involved and would create some problems for the defence. I have always liked handoffs and pitches to guys who don't usually line up at TB.
The two reasons mentioned here are why I thought Coombs could end up leaving.

[ArgoGabe22]

I'm not surprised at all. I personally don't buy the crap being said on here about Argos management.

Does Coombs and Holmes know who's coaching? If the locker room was so bad then why would guys not try to leave free agency? It's odd that the most of the more important possible FA's IMO are all re-signing. I guess we'll never know what actually went on. Plus, there are are two sides to every story.

[ArgoRavi]

I'm not surprised at all. I personally don't buy the crap being said on here about Argos management.

I also think that sometimes people overestimate how much a player wants to play at "home". Holmes has been around Toronto long enough now to establish some roots and, clearly, Coombs has no issue with Toronto either.

[paulwoods13]

Does Coombs and Holmes know who's coaching? If the locker room was so bad then why would guys not try to leave free agency? It's odd that the most of the more important possible FA's IMO are all re-signing. I guess we'll never know what actually went on. Plus, there are are two sides to every story.

Yep. Maybe the free agents would have been more eager to leave if the four receivers hadn't been cut, or if there had been no experienced QBs on the roster. We'll never know.

[Shatto]

The last three have been very good signings. Looks like Barker has been given the go-ahead to sign those players, he feels are necessary for next year. Kind of indicates he will be around next season ---still no word on the coaching situation. . Suspect the silence may be saying something --perhaps Barker back but maybe a new coach. Whatever the braintrust is doing , they need to act quickly.

[AngeloV]

The last three have been very good signings. Looks like Barker has been given the go-ahead to sign those players, he feels are necessary for next year. Kind of indicates he will be around next season ---still no word on the coaching situation. . Suspect the silence may be saying something --perhaps Barker back but maybe a new coach. Whatever the braintrust is doing , they need to act quickly.

The coach is under contract. Why would they need to announce he'd be back? If there was an announcement to be made, it would have been on a change of coach. I may be 1 of 4 or 5 on here that feel this way, but I'd be very happy to see no coaching change.

[jerrym]

Resigning Lirim Hajrullahu is important as we've all seen seasons where the Argos kicking game did them no favours.

[jerrym]

I'm glad he's back as well, but like SR I thought there was a good chance he'd leave. Two major factors: 1. He didn't get used much in 2016, and 2. He's from Manitoba and sometimes guys (especially out west -- see Andrew Harris) like to play at home. Anyway, glad he resisted the lure of free agency as he could be a cornerstone receiver going forward. IMO he's too small to play regularly at TB but I'd like him to get 35-50 carries per year (2-3 per game) as it would keep him more involved and would create some problems for the defence. I have always liked handoffs and pitches to guys who don't usually line up at TB.

I also thought there was a good chance he would be gone for these reasons.

[gilthethrill]

The coach is under contract. Why would they need to announce he'd be back? If there was an announcement to be made, it would have been on a change of coach. I may be 1 of 4 or 5 on here that feel this way, but I'd be very happy to see no coaching change.

Other teams have already announced that their staffs are returning. No changes being made but yet they made an effort to make a simple announcement.

[PullTogether73]

Other teams have already announced that their staffs are returning. No changes being made but yet they made an effort to make a simple announcement.

What do these announcements say exactly?
I don't recall reading announcements about coaches who are currently under contract that reiterate that they are still under contract.

Something like, "Justin Trudeau, Prime Minister of Canada, will return as Prime Minister of Canada for 2017"?

[1971GreyCup]

It's eight weeks since the Argos have announced that a thorough review of football operations and promised dominant and exciting football in 2017 and beyond. While no one expected any announcements before Grey Cup time, is moving on. Is anyone else getting impatient for at least an update? If the current regime returns intact, what structural changes could the Argos make to become dominant and exciting?

[Neely2005]

It's eight weeks since the Argos have announced that a thorough review of football operations and promised dominant and exciting football in 2017 and beyond. While no one expected any announcements before Grey Cup time, is moving on. Is anyone else getting impatient for at least an update? If the current regime returns intact, what structural changes could the Argos make to become dominant and exciting?

Apparently it's very thorough since we still haven't heard anything.

[stuntdog]

If the current regime returns intact, what structural changes could the Argos make to become dominant and exciting?

Would be a good topic for Cybulski & Sanchez to discuss on their Waggle podcast.

[Stevoman]

Glad Coombs and Liam are back. Hopefully Coombs gets more of an opportunity to shine this season.

[doubleblue]

It's eight weeks since the Argos have announced that a thorough review of football operations and promised dominant and exciting football in 2017 and beyond. While no one expected any announcements before Grey Cup time, is moving on. Is anyone else getting impatient for at least an update? If the current regime returns intact, what structural changes could the Argos make to become dominant and exciting?

The only thing left might be they are waiting for the NFL season to end. Don't know why anyone would want to leave the NFL willingly to come to a lower paid job in the CFL. Could somebody like Tom Dimitroff want to return to his CFL roots to run the Argos in his senior years?

Update. Tom has a three year contract through 2019. But who else is in the NFL with CFL experience who could be thought of as a Shananhan type President of Football Ops. There has to be some reason for the long drawn out delay in who's in charge going forward.

[Antwon]

It's eight weeks since the Argos have announced that a thorough review of football operations and promised dominant and exciting football in 2017 and beyond. While no one expected any announcements before Grey Cup time, is moving on. Is anyone else getting impatient for at least an update? If the current regime returns intact, what structural changes could the Argos make to become dominant and exciting?

Yes getting very impatient!! I expect some announcement before free agency opens. I think players generally like to know who's coaching the team they may change to.
Unfortunately my money is on the status quo.

[AngeloV]

Other teams have already announced that their staffs are returning. No changes being made but yet they made an effort to make a simple announcement.

Tells me that there will likely be some changes on the staff, but not at the HC spot.

[ArgoRavi]

Tells me that there will likely be some changes on the staff, but not at the HC spot.

I would be quite good with this.

[Wobbler]

It's odd that the most of the more important possible FA's IMO are all re-signing.
I'd say either we overpaid or they accepted good offers because they liked what they heard about our plans going forward. Hopefully the latter.

[Argo57]

Tells me that there will likely be some changes on the staff, but not at the HC spot.

A distinct possibility Angelo, wonder who they could be talking to as many other CFL teams have recently announced that their entire coaching staffs are returning in 2017.

[OV Argo]

I'd say either we overpaid or they accepted good offers because they liked what they heard about our plans going forward. Hopefully the latter.

Maybe that, but also maybe none of the Argos' free agent signings thus far was exactly a big, in demand FA name, with suitors about to be calling with lotsa ca$h.

[paulwoods13]

There may not be a lot of players who score big in free agency. With more than 200 free agents potentially coming on the market, smart players and agents may be twigging to the fact that it's a buyer's market. GMs may be telling guys, "Don't make the same mistake Joe Bautista made by overestimating the market for your services. Take my offer now because it won't still be on the table after Feb. 15."

[Argo57]

There may not be a lot of players who score big in free agency. With more than 200 free agents potentially coming on the market, smart players and agents may be twigging to the fact that it's a buyer's market. GMs may be telling guys, "Don't make the same mistake Joe Bautista made by overestimating the market for your services. Take my offer now because it won't still be on the table after Feb. 15."

Easier said than done especially when player agents are involved.

[1971GreyCup]

There may not be a lot of players who score big in free agency. With more than 200 free agents potentially coming on the market, smart players and agents may be twigging to the fact that it's a buyer's market. GMs may be telling guys, "Don't make the same mistake Joe Bautista made by overestimating the market for your services. Take my offer now because it won't still be on the table after Feb. 15."

Classic Leo Cahill negotiating. "I've got a great offer on the table. You get on that plane without signing and I'll personally call the NFL team that's interested and tell them there is no competing offer".

He laid this out in the book he wrote with Scott Young "Goodbye Argos."

[gilthethrill]

Classic Leo Cahill negotiating. "I've got a great offer on the table. You get on that plane without signing and I'll personally call the NFL team that's interested and tell them there is no competing offer".

He laid this out in the book he wrote with Scott Young "Goodbye Argos."

One of my favourite books ....along with Bouncing Back and the Argos Bounce.

[AngeloV]

A distinct possibility Angelo, wonder who they could be talking to as many other CFL teams have recently announced that their entire coaching staffs are returning in 2017.

There are a lot of coaches with experience in the league that are currently not under contract anywhere. It doesn't have to be someone that is currently tied to another team.


Maybe that, but also maybe none of the Argos' free agent signings thus far was exactly a big, in demand FA name, with suitors about to be calling with lotsa ca$h.

Because you've spoken to player personnel guys and GM's or coaches to know this.


Classic Leo Cahill negotiating. "I've got a great offer on the table. You get on that plane without signing and I'll personally call the NFL team that's interested and tell them there is no competing offer".

He laid this out in the book he wrote with Scott Young "Goodbye Argos."

Of course as we all know, Leo was not playing in a salary cap world, and CFL could pay comparable salary (or even more in some cases) to NFL in those days.

[OV Argo]

There are a lot of coaches with experience in the league that are currently not under contract anywhere. It doesn't have to be someone that is currently tied to another team.



Because you've spoken to player personnel guys and GM's or coaches to know this.



Of course as we all know, Leo was not playing in a salary cap world, and CFL could pay comparable salary (or even more in some cases) to NFL in those days.


That's why I said maybe, get it? Sorry to hurt your Jim & Scotty are the greatest feelings though - bet you talk to them everyday.

[Wobbler]

Could you guys try to be nice, please? Life is too short.

We have some more important guys to re-sign (Whitaker, Greenwood, Jefferson) and others that would help, but I think our off-season has been quite acceptable so far.

[1971GreyCup]

It's nice to see Shawn Lemon spending the office in Toronto and mentoring the young football players in the GTA through Nick Burn's SuperElite Football. My son has participated in the past and found it special to work out with Owens, Yurichuk, Smith, and Turner.

[paulwoods13]

It's nice to see Shawn Lemon spending the office in Toronto and mentoring the young football players in the GTA through Nick Burn's SuperElite Football. My son has participated in the past and found it special to work out with Owens, Yurichuk, Smith, and Turner.

Out of curiosity, which Smith and Turner?

[1971GreyCup]

Wayne Smith and Calgary's Junior Turner.

[paulwoods13]

Wayne Smith and Calgary's Junior Turner.

Tnx. I assumed Wayne but wasn't sure who Turner was. Wayne's a good guy in the community for sure, and a serviceable backup lineman.

[Neely2005]

Van Zeyl re-signs:

http://3downnation.com/2017/01/31/van-zeyl-re-signs-argos-report/

[Wobbler]

CVZ has been extended for three years (http://www.tsn.ca/argos-sign-all-star-ol-van-zeyl-1.661555).

With Van Zeyl and Holmes returning and McEwan still under contract, our OL Canadian content is pretty secure. Hopefully we'll be able to keep building during free agency.

[AngeloV]

CVZ has been extended for three years (http://www.tsn.ca/argos-sign-all-star-ol-van-zeyl-1.661555).

With Van Zeyl and Holmes returning and McEwan still under contract, our OL Canadian content is pretty secure. Hopefully we'll be able to keep building during free agency.

I really hope they move CVZ to right guard.

[BATKINSON001]

I don't know how to embed tweets...

gary lawless (@garylawless) tweeted at 11:52 AM on Tue, Jan 31, 2017:
first big signing for Spencer Zimmerman with @TorontoArgos in his acting GM role as he gets Chris Van Zeyl to re-up @cfl #cfl
(https://twitter.com/garylawless/status/826473169678639107?s=03)

And from 3down nation:

http://3downnation.com/2017/01/31/van-zeyl-re-signs-argos-report/
Van Zeyl re-signs with Argos: report

The Toronto Argonauts have re-signed offensive lineman Chris Van Zeyl, according to published reports.


Van Zeyl was set to become a free agent in February and would have been one of the top Canadian players available. The 33-year-old can play both tackle and guard was named CFL East Division all-star for the third time in 2016.

[doubleblue]

I really hope they move CVZ to right guard.

I think some of us have been calling for that the last couple of years. He did play Guard back a two or three years ago didn't he, with King and Rogers the Tackles. But when he signed his last contract he was suddenly moved back to RT. Don't Canadian OT's make more money than Guards? Maybe that had something to do with the position move. I thought he did play some what better last year at RT, but the play that sticks in my mind was the free shot TiCat DE Adrian Tracy had on Ricky Ray while Van Zeyl felt he should be helping Watman double team a DT. That may have been his assignment (Watman was over matched) but it didn't look like a smart thing to do as a guy like Tracy should never get a free shot at your QB.

[BATKINSON001]

http://3downnation.com/2017/01/31/van-zeyl-re-signs-argos-report/
Van Zeyl re-signs with Argos: report
Posted on January 31, 2017 by 3Down Staff // 0 Comments

The Toronto Argonauts have re-signed offensive lineman Chris Van Zeyl, according to published reports.


Van Zeyl was set to become a free agent in February and would have been one of the top Canadian players available. The 33-year-old can play both tackle and guard was named CFL East Division all-star for the third time in 2016.

[gilthethrill]

I really hope they move CVZ to right guard.

Agreed. That move could extend his career. Wonder if the Argos will have any interest in recently released Jeff Parrot formerly a long time OT for Montreal?

Good job Mr Zimmerman!

[Wobbler]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Chris Van Zeyl&#39;s new deal with the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Argos?src=hash">#Argos</a> for 3 years in the $230K range, per <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFL?src=hash">#CFL</a> sources.</p>&mdash; Justin Dunk (@JDunk12) <a href="https://twitter.com/JDunk12/status/826495129049509888">January 31, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Seems like a lot of money for a guard. Sure, we gave Holmes $200K a couple of years ago, but it seemed likely at the time that he was going to get a lot of attention on the market.

[BATKINSON001]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Chris Van Zeyl's new deal with the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Argos?src=hash">#Argos</a> for 3 years in the $230K range, per <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFL?src=hash">#CFL</a> sources.</p>— Justin Dunk (@JDunk12) <a href="https://twitter.com/JDunk12/status/826495129049509888">January 31, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Seems like a lot of money for a guard. Sure, we gave Holmes $200K a couple of years ago, but it seemed likely at the time that he was going to get a lot of attention on the market.

How do you embed the tweet so it shows like that? Is it desktop only or can I do that on my phone?

The money seems good as its for 3 years and they will need some veterans around.

[ArgoGabe22]

I like CVZ but at 230K, that's a steep price for someone approaching the end of their career.

[Wobbler]

How do you embed the tweet so it shows like that? Is it desktop only or can I do that on my phone?
Depends on what Twitter app you're using, I think. From a browser, if you bring up the menu associated with a tweet and select "embed this tweet" you can copy and paste that code.

[ArgoGabe22]

How do you embed the tweet so it shows like that? Is it desktop only or can I do that on my phone?

The money seems good as its for 3 years and they will need some veterans around.

From my experience, I can only do it on a desktop.

[BATKINSON001]

From my experience, I can only do it on a desktop. thanks.

[R.J]

Not comfortable seeing Van Zeyl get that kind of reported term and dough, when IMO he's played poorly 3 seasons in a row. A move to RG is a must IMO, but that's Bourke type of money for a guy who hasn't been an elite tackle (and RT, not an LT) or even Offensive Lineman in a few years.

[Will]

Not comfortable seeing Van Zeyl get that kind of reported term and dough, when IMO he's played poorly 3 seasons in a row. A move to RG is a must IMO, but that's Bourke type of money for a guy who hasn't been an elite tackle (and RT, not an LT) or even Offensive Lineman in a few years.

Why do I need to post when you just summed up my thoughts? Although, I think he's played poorly since 2015, I don't remember his play being an issue in 2014.

[gilthethrill]

Not comfortable seeing Van Zeyl get that kind of reported term and dough, when IMO he's played poorly 3 seasons in a row. A move to RG is a must IMO, but that's Bourke type of money for a guy who hasn't been an elite tackle (and RT, not an LT) or even Offensive Lineman in a few years.

The way Zimmerman spoke, it hinted that CVZ will remain at OT.

[Will]

The way Zimmerman spoke, it hinted that CVZ will remain at OT.

Do the Argos (at 01/31/2017) have someone who can plausibly be ahead of him on the depth chart? That's the issue and one issue I am not comfortable with.

[paulwoods13]

Not signing a NAT who can start would be worse than signing him. He hasn't been good
the past few years, is out of position at RT and is probably why overpaid. But I'd still rather have him as an asset we own than let him go to free agency.

[gilthethrill]

Do the Argos (at 01/31/2017) have someone who can plausibly be ahead of him on the depth chart? That's the issue and one issue I am not comfortable with.

I don't think Sackey or Campbell are ready. Now that Barker is gone I wonder how long they will survive.

[AngeloV]

Do the Argos (at 01/31/2017) have someone who can plausibly be ahead of him on the depth chart? That's the issue and one issue I am not comfortable with.

If I was making the decisions, with Jones all but guaranteed a starting SB position, I would sign a number of International tackles, and hope you can find 2 good bookends to start at tackles. They would likely be low paid, and allow you to eat big contracts at the guard spots.

[OV Argo]

If I was making the decisions, with Jones all but guaranteed a starting SB position, I would sign a number of International tackles, and hope you can find 2 good bookends to start at tackles. They would likely be low paid, and allow you to eat big contracts at the guard spots.

Can't really see many guaranteed starting positions for the Argos with no GM & HC in place at this point.

Van Zeyl is a vet and maybe could rebound to be solid at either OT or guard - but that is what real TC competition is for.

Might be able to find 2 good new, young import OTs but maybe not - there is not some unlimited supply of those types, despite what some CFL fans believe (and not saying you think that way AV). Maybe Sackey or Campbell progress big-time and with a new O-line coach perhaps? Also IMO a pretty deep O-line crop this year, including a few OT types.

Argos should have no dreaded "ratio problems" IMO - another CFL fairy tale that certain fan forums love to subscribe too ;o) Could easily start 2 import OTs if that is how TC competition shakes out.

[AngeloV]

Can't really see many guaranteed starting positions for the Argos with no GM & HC in place at this point.

Van Zeyl is a vet and maybe could rebound to be solid at either OT or guard - but that is what real TC competition is for.

Might be able to find 2 good new, young import OTs but maybe not - there is not some unlimited supply of those types, despite what some CFL fans believe (and not saying you think that way AV). Maybe Sackey or Campbell progress big-time and with a new O-line coach perhaps? Also IMO a pretty deep O-line crop this year, including a few OT types.

Argos should have no dreaded "ratio problems" IMO - another CFL fairy tale that certain fan forums love to subscribe too ;o) Could easily start 2 import OTs if that is how TC competition shakes out.

I don't think they'll have any ratio problems either OV. They have some talent at skill positions. That's why I think they can afford to start 2 Internationals at tackle...of course this all depends if they can find 2 good ones. Imports at OT also come considerably cheaper than quality Canadians there, so it would also help cap wise. They really need to work on getting Greenwood signed, and hopefully give Miles a legitimate shot to start at MLB, along with Waud at DT.

[doubleblue]

The Argos, re-Barker brought quite a few good Import Tackles into the League in the last several years. Washington, Rogers, King, Campbell come to mind. All but Campbell are still in the League as he retired rather than move to Regina. The players are out there, just have to be recruited. I would be ok with Van Roten playing somewhere in the line. I thought he should have been at RG all last year. So if they can re-sign Van Roten that would just leave a good LT missing from a pretty good O Line IMO.
If Van Zeyl is actually getting 230,000 I would wager maybe 50,000 would be made up in bonuses, with a base of around 180,000.

[Wobbler]

MLB and two recievers (all INT) signed today (http://www.argonauts.ca/2017/02/01/argos-sign-international-trio/).

[gilthethrill]

Victor Butler has a lot of NFL experience...weighing in at 248 he could be used at DE as well. Harris could be a find based on his college career. Hope the new coaching staff likes these guys.

[Wobbler]

True - I'm curious about what we do at DE. Lemon is a lock, obviously, but do we bring back Foley? If we end up with two INTs on the OL we'll have to keep an eye on our NAT content on D.

[OV Argo]

Ego-Jones and the Riders have cut vet DB Fred Bennett. Argos should sign him IMO - always thought he was very good and might come relatively cheap now. Need for veteran savvy in the D-backfield IMO, as opposed to the Barker MO of plugging-in a bunch of new, ex-NFL resume guys every year and thinking that will work. Matt Black should finally get a real look to see if he can start at his real position - cornerback - too - another vet to provide some glue to the secondary, and Jefferson has built up some CFL experience and has talent IMO. And I hope Gabriel can rebound at safety - not sure if Stubler liked him ?

[ArgoRavi]

Ego-Jones and the Riders have cut vet DB Fred Bennett. Argos should sign him IMO - always thought he was very good and might come relatively cheap now. Need for veteran savvy in the D-backfield IMO, as opposed to the Barker MO of plugging-in a bunch of new, ex-NFL resume guys every year and thinking that will work. Matt Black should finally get a real look to see if he can start at his real position - cornerback - too - another vet to provide some glue to the secondary, and Jefferson has built up some CFL experience and has talent IMO. And I hope Gabriel can rebound at safety - not sure if Stubler liked him ?

Gabriel was really hampered by injuries in 2016 but can hopefully rebound in 2017. I agree with you, OV, about Bennett. I think that he would be a nice addition and he knows Stubler's defence too.

[gilthethrill]

Ego-Jones and the Riders have cut vet DB Fred Bennett. Argos should sign him IMO - always thought he was very good and might come relatively cheap now. Need for veteran savvy in the D-backfield IMO, as opposed to the Barker MO of plugging-in a bunch of new, ex-NFL resume guys every year and thinking that will work. Matt Black should finally get a real look to see if he can start at his real position - cornerback - too - another vet to provide some glue to the secondary, and Jefferson has built up some CFL experience and has talent IMO. And I hope Gabriel can rebound at safety - not sure if Stubler liked him ?

I totally agree about Bennett. Last season there were numerous veteran DB's that were available from other CFL teams, but for what ever reason they found their way to other teams and contributed. Not sure how Zimmerman can continue to sign players when the new coaching staff (announcement to be made soon) may not even want them.

[paulwoods13]

I totally agree about Bennett. Last season there were numerous veteran DB's that were available from other CFL teams, but for what ever reason they found their way to other teams and contributed. Not sure how Zimmerman can continue to sign players when the new coaching staff (announcement to be made soon) may not even want them.

Coaches can cut players in camp; Zimmerman should do whatever he feels is needed in the meantime. There's absolutely no downside to signing Bennett unless his salary demands are untenable. Obviously we need Gabriel to rebound as a starter, and we need at least one NAT LB (Greenwood, hope he gets re-signed, and/or Miles) and at least one NAT d-lineman at all times. Ideally we'd start four NATs on defence, three on the o-line and two among the six backs and receivers, giving us tons of substitution flexibility. I don't think Black is gonna play cornerback. I love the guy but he's been with the team for seven years -- if he was capable of starting there it probably would have happened by now.

[Will]

I totally agree about Bennett. Last season there were numerous veteran DB's that were available from other CFL teams, but for what ever reason they found their way to other teams and contributed. Not sure how Zimmerman can continue to sign players when the new coaching staff (announcement to be made soon) may not even want them.

It may not be business as usual, but the Argos cannot treat it like it isn't business as usual. The timing of the Barker firing and Milanovich resignation was not ideal, but needless to say the Argos still need to field a team and in my opinion cannot wait until a new coaching staff is in place because who the hell knows when that is going to happen!

[OV Argo]

Coaches can cut players in camp; Zimmerman should do whatever he feels is needed in the meantime. There's absolutely no downside to signing Bennett unless his salary demands are untenable. Obviously we need Gabriel to rebound as a starter, and we need at least one NAT LB (Greenwood, hope he gets re-signed, and/or Miles) and at least one NAT d-lineman at all times. Ideally we'd start four NATs on defence, three on the o-line and two among the six backs and receivers, giving us tons of substitution flexibility. I don't think Black is gonna play cornerback. I love the guy but he's been with the team for seven years -- if he was capable of starting there it probably would have happened by now.



"capable of starting" should be determined by a smart coaching staff; and not by myopic dullard thinking that Canadians don't get to play certain positions. A new defensive coaching staff (DC or DBs coach) might be willing to give vet Matt Black a chance to start at corner - he has lots of experience, and has almost always held-up well there when given spot playing time. Problem is the GOB thinking process there - young import corners or DBs can get torched all over the field and the thinking is - "oh well, he's learning and will get better"; a Canadian playing there will be graded much more harshly. Little note to GOB DCs - the exclusive Americans only corners and DBs in the CFL now are mostly getting beaten all over the field, pretty well all the time, game in game out.

[paulwoods13]

We've had this debate before so almost no point rehashing it, but the idea that imports are judged less harshly than Canadians is undermined by the fact that Black, as one example, has had a job in the league for seven seasons. Can't find any INT DBs who lasted that long while "getting torched up and down the field." Those who play like that generally last less than two seasons. And yes, I know a case can be made that Black hasn't had the same chance to get torched as a CB. Maybe that's to his detriment, maybe it's to his benefit.

[Reggiemac]

And the argos signed a new receiver KR Chandler Worthy. Lots of youtube videos of him, good hands, speed and lots of KR TDs. And seems to be a slippery runner, shakes tackles and can also play DB. He looks like the exciting KR we need. Check him out on youtube. Google his name lots of games .

[OV Argo]

Victor Butler has a lot of NFL experience...weighing in at 248 he could be used at DE as well. Harris could be a find based on his college career. Hope the new coaching staff likes these guys.

Read that Butler was a DE in college ball before being converted to linebacker in the NFL and is rated a good pass rusher. Maybe doubtful he could beat out Lemon at DE, but maybe could man the other side DE? Is Foley going to be coming back? - if not, it might be 2 import DEs starting and maybe Waud mans one DT spot (and IMO that is why the Argos should be thinking of a DT from this year's draft - a good crop there IMO - and might have to use their 1st pick #10 overall, or could maybe wait till their second pick / #19 ?).

Greenwood - hopefully re-signed and healthy, plus Gabriel at safety = would then give 3 starters on D; but I hope Matt Black or Thomas Miles might get a shot to start, or at least sub-in for certain packages.

[Reggiemac]

And we signed another receiver KR prospect today, things are looking up in our kick return game possibilities!

[Reggiemac]

And tge other new receiver KR is Andre Debose and I had a look at his youtube videos and this guy will put lots of bums in seats, very exciting. Hopefully he can makevit through camps inscratched. Another break away threat with great sped, goid hands and can slip casual tackles like no ankle slap will stop him. Played and starred at a big school program so he should be ready.

[1971GreyCup]

I just can't wait to train them all on the differences between NCAA/NFL and the CFL game. Usually takes a season or two.

[AngeloV]

I just can't wait to train them all on the differences between NCAA/NFL and the CFL game. Usually takes a season or two.

Not with the good ones. Let's hope we've found some good ones.

[gilthethrill]

A bit off topic but listening to a "Podcast" by Hamilton fan Josh Smith, he has heard rumblings that Chad Owens could very well be returning to the Boatman after Free Agency hits. This "Podcast" is on 3downnation.

[paulwoods13]

A bit off topic but listening to a "Podcast" by Hamilton fan Josh Smith, he has heard rumblings that Chad Owens could very well be returning to the Boatman after Free Agency hits. This "Podcast" is on 3downnation.

I think that's extremely probable. Ham has tons of receivers. We need to improve there and would really benefit from some veteran leadership.

[BATKINSON001]

A bit off topic but listening to a "Podcast" by Hamilton fan Josh Smith, he has heard rumblings that Chad Owens could very well be returning to the Boatman after Free Agency hits. This "Podcast" is on 3downnation. if true, I would love to have him back.

[Argo57]

if true, I would love to have him back.

Me too, should play it out as an Argo.

[ArgoGabe22]

A bit off topic but listening to a "Podcast" by Hamilton fan Josh Smith, he has heard rumblings that Chad Owens could very well be returning to the Boatman after Free Agency hits. This "Podcast" is on 3downnation.

Why do people keep saying this? Not that I wouldn't want him back, I do, but what is the reasoning behind this thought? Hamilton may not want to retain him and he wants to play close to home, so the Argos are the only possibility?

[Neely2005]

A bit off topic but listening to a "Podcast" by Hamilton fan Josh Smith, he has heard rumblings that Chad Owens could very well be returning to the Boatman after Free Agency hits. This "Podcast" is on 3downnation.

As long as we can sign him to a similar one year deal like Hamilton did.

[AngeloV]

As long as we can sign him to a similar one year deal like Hamilton did.

Term of the deal means nothing. I do agree that $$$ need to be similar though.

[Neely2005]

Term of the deal means nothing. I do agree that $$$ need to be similar though.

Potential bad PR if they cut him before his contract expires.

[AngeloV]

Potential bad PR if they cut him before his contract expires.

Don't think it's any different than not offering a contract for a 2nd season. Same optics.

[paulwoods13]

Pretty sure he signed a one-year contract for low dollars. He owes them nothing. As to why it's plausible he would return, I already have two reasons (our need for receivers and leadership). Add one more: he is settled in the GTA and will not want to move his family. It's still possible he will re-sign with ham but I think there is a very good possibility he returns to the Argos.

[ArgoZ]

Don't think it's any different than not offering a contract for a 2nd season. Same optics.

Seeing that the regime that did so is no longer here, there shouldn't be any hard feelings either. Can we get Tory Gurley back too?

[OV Argo]

Seeing that the regime that did so is no longer here, there shouldn't be any hard feelings either. Can we get Tory Gurley back too?

I'd rather have Gurley back over Chad. Nothing against Owens - a superb CFL talent as a dual threat receiver & returner in his day - I just think his best days are long behind him; but i could be wrong and he might be a great Argo re-acquisition. I also bet he would want or command pretty big CFL buck$ still - not worth it if that is the case.

[Will]

Re-signing Chad Owens might not be the best football move, but it probably is the right PR move. This is a franchise that needs to assuage it's loyal die-hards at this point.

[1971GreyCup]

Seeing that the regime that did so is no longer here, there shouldn't be any hard feelings either. Can we get Tory Gurley back too?

I don't know how well others know Tori Gurley, but I know him, his mother and grandfather well enough to disregard the garbage thrown at him last season. I would love the new regime to welcome him back.

[ArgoGabe22]

A Gurley that doesn't like to block or has tantrums on the sideline? No thanks.

[1971GreyCup]

A Gurley that doesn't like to block or has tantrums on the sideline? No thanks.

To each his own. I find it hard to believe that Tori was fine for four years in NCAA Division I, 5 years in the NFL and one and half years with the Argos before he had tantrums and stopped blocking. A key to Argos PR program before our exHc pilloried him. Oh and by the way this limited scope player with a bad character now starts for a superior team. IMO

It won't do our recruiting any favours if we're the team to scapegoat players for coaching inadequacy.

[AngeloV]

Seeing that the regime that did so is no longer here, there shouldn't be any hard feelings either. Can we get Tory Gurley back too?

Will he block on hitch screens this time? My biggest frustration with the "big 3" was that for their size, they were brutal at downfield blocking. Ottawa mastered the hitch screen last year because all of their receivers bought in to blocking for the recipient of the screen pass.

[1971GreyCup]

Will he block on hitch screens this time? My biggest frustration with the "big 3" was that for their size, they were brutal at downfield blocking. Ottawa mastered the hitch screen last year because all of their receivers bought in to blocking for the recipient of the screen pass.

Maybe some coaching is required here.

Some here would imply that they wouldn't block as opposed to couldn't block. A big difference. And to imply that is ludicrous.

[Will]

Maybe some coaching is required here.

The Argos offence was relatively successful in 2012 and 2013 in no small part, IMO, due to the blocking skills of a Mike Bradwell or a Spencer Watt. For an offence that relied so much on the short passing game like the Milanovich offence, there was a failure in ensuring that several of the receivers had the proper skill set to aid it in recent years.

[1971GreyCup]

In 2015, when the Argos had a healthy QB that could get the ball the quality receivers, the statistics were strong. Also, high hopes were for 2016.

- Trevor Harris with three new receivers completed 382 out of 538 pass attempts (71% completion) for 4354 yards with 33 touchdowns and 19 interceptions;

- Gurley finished the 2015 CFL season with 793 yards on 58 receptions and was the league leader in touchdown receptions with 10;

- Elliot had an impressive first season in the CFL playing in 16 of 18 regular season games and amassing 50 receptions for 642 yards with 8 touchdowns;

- Hazelton contributed 70 pass receptions for 803 yards with 6 touchdowns in his rookie season.

Apparently, without a healthy QB that could get the ball downfield, these three highlights of the 2015 season became lowlights of 2016 and were released. They could block downfield, had attitude problems, etc.

Where was the criticism in 2015? Or are we revising history to fit the narrative?

Or maybe it was poor strategic management that didn't bring back all the pieces of the puzzle?

[paulwoods13]

There was criticism in 2015. All of them got benched temporarily for disciplinary reasons. Gurley spent almost n entire game (one of the games in Hamilton, I think against Calgary) in uniform on the sidelines. I believe he was benched because he bitched about something that night.

[OV Argo]

To each his own. I find it hard to believe that Tori was fine for four years in NCAA Division I, 5 years in the NFL and one and half years with the Argos before he had tantrums and stopped blocking. A key to Argos PR program before our exHc pilloried him. Oh and by the way this limited scope player with a bad character now starts for a superior team. IMO

It won't do our recruiting any favours if we're the team to scapegoat players for coaching inadequacy.

I believe there was some significant scape-goating of players last year to make up for coaching "inadequacy" (I'd call it stupidity); Bourke, Bulcke (one game chance while they trotted out a mediocre rookie import Bishop all season), Raymond, and then cutting 4 receivers at one time ??? Too bad that entire coaching staff didn't get cut about mid season and a new staff could have been working to see if they could make needed improvements.

Gurley was easily IMO, the best receiver talent of the so-called big 3; and they could have cut the other 2 as an example / to make a point.

[AngeloV]

Maybe some coaching is required here.

Some here would imply that they wouldn't block as opposed to couldn't block. A big difference. And to imply that is ludicrous.

You're kidding, right? This stuff is taught from pop warner all the way through college ball. If you're a pro and you don't block, it's because you have no desire to do so. You also make it sound like these guys have been 1500 yard receivers in this league. Not even close. They either couldn't even get on the field, or were barely used on their new teams. Gurley didn't even dress in the playoff game.

[1971GreyCup]

You're kidding, right? This stuff is taught from pop warner all the way through college ball. If you're a pro and you don't block, it's because you have no desire to do so. You also make it sound like these guys have been 1500 yard receivers in this league. Not even close. They either couldn't even get on the field, or were barely used on their new teams. Gurley didn't even dress in the playoff game.

I guess Edmonton, Hamilton and Winnipeg disagree as they are all under contract to return in 2017. How does a redshirt freshman start at receiver at University of South Carolina in the ACC and the go on to hang around the NFL for five seasons with his bad attitude. To be honest, I would say the frustration must have rained supreme on the SM team. I believe in 2017 receivers wouldn't even recommend challenges, because they new what happened to those who did and the result seemed to be quite dis-functional. I am pretty sure that Jim Barker wasn't looking for 4 troublemakers when he scouted the terrible four.

I took the position after Week #1 that big changes were required after the thumping we took at hands of the Ticats during Week #1. Many disagreed. We had a top quality coach and a top GM. Patience was required.

The season turned into a circus after Week 16 and the GM/HC summariiy cut 1/4 of offense. Timing was great as it was just before we played the CFL powerhouse Stampeders. By the way, we got zilch for these players. I was then told, no one would pickup these guys. Except they were all four picked up?? Now I hear they didn't a lot of playing time.

And the final straw for me was when the GM and HC decided just 5 days later that there still as a chance to get to the Grey Cup in-spite of the self-inflicted mortal wound of Week 16. A desperate trade for a reportedly gunslinger QB was acquired after trading future assets. This previously benched QB, with a hefty contract would be available in the offseason. To add to the problem, the receivers had just been sent packing!

I guess it all circles back to the terrible four. I fear the Argos have a rough road ahead, and many players will have lots to prove when they come back to town.

[AngeloV]

How does a redshirt freshman start at receiver at University of South Carolina in the ACC and the go on to hang around the NFL for five seasons with his bad attitude. To be honest, I would say the frustration must have rained supreme on the SM team.

Nowhere did I ever question his talent. You do realize that he was with 8 different organizations in the NFL and now is in his 2nd in the CFL, right? I get that you have a personal relationship with him, but a good attitude and being a good team mate doesn't get you now 9 pink slips in 5 years.

And for the record, South Carolina is in the SEC, not the ACC.

[Neely2005]

I believe there was some significant scape-goating of players last year to make up for coaching "inadequacy" (I'd call it stupidity); Bourke, Bulcke (one game chance while they trotted out a mediocre rookie import Bishop all season), Raymond, and then cutting 4 receivers at one time ??? Too bad that entire coaching staff didn't get cut about mid season and a new staff could have been working to see if they could make needed improvements.

Gurley was easily IMO, the best receiver talent of the so-called big 3; and they could have cut the other 2 as an example / to make a point.

Well when Pinball's wife sends out a Tweet saying that it's not the players...

[paulwoods13]

I was then told, no one would pickup these guys. Except they were all four picked up?? Now I hear they didn't a lot of playing time.

I was one who said that not all four would surface elsewhere. I was wrong as all four did get signed by other teams. But it is a fact that they got little playing time. Elliott got the most PT with the Cats (three games). Gurley played two games with the Bombers and did not play in the playoffs. Hazelton did not dress for Edmonton. Bates played two games with Sask. I'll be surprised if all four are on an opening-day roster but I assume a couple of them will be. Time will tell if any have a greater impact with their new team than they had with the Argos.


And the final straw for me was when the GM and HC decided just 5 days later that there still as a chance to get to the Grey Cup in-spite of the self-inflicted mortal wound of Week 16. A desperate trade for a reportedly gunslinger QB was acquired after trading future assets. This previously benched QB, with a hefty contract would be available in the offseason. To add to the problem, the receivers had just been sent packing!

The sequence of events is off. The Willy trade occurred Sept. 11. The receivers were cut on Oct. 3.

[Reggiemac]

Butler was seen as a passrusher on the rise when he tore up his knee 4 seasons ago. He was on a multimillion dollar contract. Then he had a 4 game suspension for violating PED policy. That was a few years ago so maybe he is on a recovery path to restore his career.

[Reggiemac]

We have many talented feceivers signed for next year. What I havent seen is any RB signings, I think we need a breakaway threat in the backfield to open up our passing game. Whittaker is a steady guy but no threat. Also must have good hands and be a punishing blocker.is that too much to ask for?

[Reggiemac]

I wonder if he turned to PED's as a result of his injury? Trying to get back to his former self. Thats when many people get addicted. Having suffered a stroke I would probably gladly find a pill that could return me to my old self. But they dont exist. This is regarding the Victor Butler signing.

[Wobbler]

We signed our seventh and eighth round picks from last year's draft.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Argos?src=hash">#Argos</a> announce signing of two 2016 <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFLDraft?src=hash">#CFLDraft</a> picks.<br><br>📰 <a href="https://t.co/CNpW1HTv8A">https://t.co/CNpW1HTv8A</a> <a href="https://t.co/kdk7RQ92Ze">pic.twitter.com/kdk7RQ92Ze</a></p>&mdash; Toronto Argonauts (@TorontoArgos) <a href="https://twitter.com/TorontoArgos/status/829778787978055681">February 9, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[jerrym]

Here's some more information on the two draft picks from last year who signed.



The Toronto Argonauts announced today that the club has signed 2016 CFL Draft picks Johnathan Ngeleka and Ryan Nieuwesteeg.
Ngeleka (pronunciation: NUH-GLE-KAH), spent five years at McMaster University, where he registered 30 tackles, six tackles for a loss of 47 yards, and fives sacks with the Marauders. The 5-10, 191-pound, native of Hamilton, Ontario, attended training camp with the Double Blue after being selected in the seventh round (58th overall) of the 2016 CFL Draft.
Nieuwesteeg (pronunciation: NEW-WE-STEEG), selected by the Argonauts in the eighth round (66th overall) of the 2016 CFL Draft. The 5-8, 170-pound native of Niagara Falls, Ontario played five seasons at the University of Guelph, where he compiled 1,498 kick return yards on 103 returns and hauled in 32 passes for 372 receiving yards with the Gryphons.
The 2015 Yates Cup Champion and second-team OUA All-Star attended training camp with the Argonauts in 2016 before electing to return to UofG for his final year of USport eligibility.


http://www.argonauts.ca/2017/02/09/argo-sign-pair-2016-cfl-draft-picks/

[jerrym]

I like CVZ but at 230K, that's a steep price for someone approaching the end of their career.

I agree as he will be 37 at the end of the contract. As much as I like CVZ, I wonder if this is the best direction to go for a rebuilding team. I hoped the Argos don't get Bourked.

[Reggiemac]

We scheduled 3 free agent camps and cancelled one of them but the forum has been silent on the camps. Anyone got ideas on prospects that impresed? Weve seen some receiver signings so maybe they were impressive enough to be signed but any otherscwho havent been announced yet?

[ArgoRavi]

We scheduled 3 free agent camps and cancelled one of them but the forum has been silent on the camps. Anyone got ideas on prospects that impresed? Weve seen some receiver signings so maybe they were impressive enough to be signed but any otherscwho havent been announced yet?

Unless the media cover these camps, we won't know anything until players are signed.

[Reggiemac]

I expect to see avery competitive TC this year. Especially on tge D side as we brought in so many new guys last year because of injuries and they have had the benefit of practicing and in some cases dressing for games so that has to be a positive and with the recent receiver KR signings it should be an interesting battle at that position. So, if they get off tgeir collective asses and get a GM and HC we can move forward.

[R.J]

I expect to see avery competitive TC this year. Especially on tge D side as we brought in so many new guys last year because of injuries and they have had the benefit of practicing and in some cases dressing for games so that has to be a positive and with the recent receiver KR signings it should be an interesting battle at that position. So, if they get off tgeir collective asses and get a GM and HC we can move forward.
Very little talent on the defensive side of the ball IMO.

[OV Argo]

Very little talent on the defensive side of the ball IMO.

The additions of Venable and Sears (if he can stay healthy and play to his CFL best form) really help there IMO. And IF Greenwood returns, those 3 could, IMO, form a top notch CFL LB corps.

Other units of the D have big question marks or holes though.

D-Line: Lemon is a good pass rushing DE; Foley is getting on in mileage and has to rebound to better than last year or be replaced IMO; Bishop & Hall were mediocre at best IMO - a better import DT should be found; I have hopes that Waud can still become a very good CFL DT, but they should draft a DT from a good crop coming up to compete/platoon there (unless Finley shows he is good for playing time there)

DBs: I think Gabriel can still be a very good CFL safety; but after that - lots of competition needed with all spots up for grabs - maybe they go out and sign a vet DB for experience/leadership (Jovon Johnson?); like to see Matt Black get a real shot to play corner, but he at least provides very experienced depth - could fill in anywhere in the D backfield.

[R.J]

The additions of Venable and Sears (if he can stay healthy and play to his CFL best form) really help there IMO. And IF Greenwood returns, those 3 could, IMO, form a top notch CFL LB corps.

Other units of the D have big question marks or holes though.

D-Line: Lemon is a good pass rushing DE; Foley is getting on in mileage and has to rebound to better than last year or be replaced IMO; Bishop & Hall were mediocre at best IMO - a better import DT should be found; I have hopes that Waud can still become a very good CFL DT, but they should draft a DT from a good crop coming up to compete/platoon there (unless Finley shows he is good for playing time there)

DBs: I think Gabriel can still be a very good CFL safety; but after that - lots of competition needed with all spots up for grabs - maybe they go out and sign a vet DB for experience/leadership (Jovon Johnson?); like to see Matt Black get a real shot to play corner, but he at least provides very experienced depth - could fill in anywhere in the D backfield.
I agree about our linebacking corps if Greenwood re-signs and Sears plays Sam, but aside from Lemon and Gabriel, what else do we really have ?
I'm not really crazy about Johnson coming here, as I don't think that highly of him as a player, but considering how poor our secondary is, I suppose we could use him.
Black, IMO is nowhere near good enough to be a CFL starter, no matter where you put him.

[OV Argo]

I agree about our linebacking corps if Greenwood re-signs and Sears plays Sam, but aside from Lemon and Gabriel, what else do we really have ?
I'm not really crazy about Johnson coming here, as I don't think that highly of him as a player, but considering how poor our secondary is, I suppose we could use him.
Black, IMO is nowhere near good enough to be a CFL starter, no matter where you put him.


There's been this discussion about Black here lots before.

There is basically zero evidence to support the notion that he could not be a capable starting CFL corner - his natural position in college ball where he was an all-star - and with his extensive CFL D learning experience now. He just has not been given any real game in game out starting chance at corner (though he has at safety and his been just ok there); and the times he has played some corner for the Argos, IMO he held up pretty well.

OTOH - there is TONS of evidence of other Argo (and CFL in general) import corners (and D-halfs) getting handed starting positions and being mediocre, lousy or burned all over the field. Sorry, but I'm stuck with going by actual on field football game evidence in evaluating players and not pre-judging them by their passports like some typical GOBs - and if you want to write off Black as a potential starter, I could easily write-off half the starting corners in the CFL now, including some mediocres who have been handed extensive CFL playing time (and Black has NOT been given that chance) - a bunch of them with the Argos over the past few seasons. You're entitled to your opinion of course and I might change my mind WHEN/IF I get to see Black start a bunch of games (at corner or D-half) and he shows he is not a good player there.

[doubleblue]

There's been this discussion about Black here lots before.

There is basically zero evidence to support the notion that he could not be a capable starting CFL corner - his natural position in college ball where he was an all-star - and with his extensive CFL D learning experience now. He just has not been given any real game in game out starting chance at corner (though he has at safety and his been just ok there); and the times he has played some corner for the Argos, IMO he held up pretty well.

OTOH - there is TONS of evidence of other Argo (and CFL in general) import corners (and D-halfs) getting handed starting positions and being mediocre, lousy or burned all over the field. Sorry, but I'm stuck with going by actual on field football game evidence in evaluating players and not pre-judging them by their passports like some typical GOBs - and if you want to write off Black as a potential starter, I could easily write-off half the starting corners in the CFL now, including some mediocres who have been handed extensive CFL playing time (and Black has NOT been given that chance) - a bunch of them with the Argos over the past few seasons. You're entitled to your opinion of course and I might change my mind WHEN/IF I get to see Black start a bunch of games (at corner or D-half) and he shows he is not a good player there.

IMO Matt Black at age 31 is a good rotation/back up guy right now. Good enough to come in or start some games but not an every down player at this stage of the game. But a valuable Canadian veteran to have on the roster.

[Shatto]

Ottawa gets Tate for a 2018, 5th round draft choice ---we get Willy for the 1st overall draft choice in 2017 and also our best DB Can you say hosed?

[AngeloV]

Ottawa gets Tate for a 2018, 5th round draft choice ---we get Willy for the 1st overall draft choice in 2017 and also our best DB Can you say hosed?

Not going to defend the trade for Willy (it was an obvious desperation move for a team that was hosting the Grey Cup), but in all honesty, different expectations. Tate is brought in to be a back up. Willy was brought in to be the starter.

Don't get the love for Tate these days. Looked GREAT in 2012. Has looked pretty bad in limited starts since.

[Argo57]

Not going to defend the trade for Willy (it was an obvious desperation move for a team that was hosting the Grey Cup), but in all honesty, different expectations. Tate is brought in to be a back up. Willy was brought in to be the starter.

Don't get the love for Tate these days. Looked GREAT in 2012. Has looked pretty bad in limited starts since.

Good trade for both teams, Ottawa didn't give up much to acquire a serviceable backup for Harris and Calgary picks up a late pick for a guy who never was going to start for them.

[Reggiemac]

Ottawa is looking more and more like Calgary east

[Jon Gonzo]

Ottawa has good management. They came into the league and schooled solid CFL GM's in a short period of time. Smart, getting CFL proven talent in the FO and on the field. Watch, we'll do the opposite.

[Neely2005]

Not going to defend the trade for Willy (it was an obvious desperation move for a team that was hosting the Grey Cup), but in all honesty, different expectations. Tate is brought in to be a back up. Willy was brought in to be the starter.

Don't get the love for Tate these days. Looked GREAT in 2012. Has looked pretty bad in limited starts since.

And Tate still looks better than Willy IMO, regardless of what the trades were.

[gilthethrill]

Takes departure from Calgary could very well free up a roster spot for Mitchell Gale.

[paulwoods13]

One perspective: Ott gets a solid, experienced backup and insurance policy in Tate, Calgary gets a somewhat experienced backup in Gale.

Another perspective: Ott gets a guy considered toxic by teammates, who has barely played despite being in the league for eight years (averaged fewer than four attempted passes per game over that span). Calgary is pooched if BLM gets hurt, with just the inexperienced Gale and Buckley behind him.

[Jon Gonzo]

Further perspective; Harris just turned away from an extension offer from Ottawa this week. It doesn't sound like there's an understanding of future worth here. Harris seems like he's as tough a negotiator as he is on the field, but Ott Man believes in strict money ball. Something to watch.

[AngeloV]

Further perspective; Harris just turned away from an extension offer from Ottawa this week. It doesn't sound like there's an understanding of future worth here. Harris seems like he's as tough a negotiator as he is on the field, but Ott Man believes in strict money ball. Something to watch.

Sounds like Harris is gambling on having his first post September success. I don't blame him. What good is an extension? If he struggles, he gets released and if he shows himself to be the real deal he gets his price.

[OV Argo]

One perspective: Ott gets a solid, experienced backup and insurance policy in Tate, Calgary gets a somewhat experienced backup in Gale.

Another perspective: Ott gets a guy considered toxic by teammates, who has barely played despite being in the league for eight years (averaged fewer than four attempted passes per game over that span). Calgary is pooched if BLM gets hurt, with just the inexperienced Gale and Buckley behind him.


Heard from a Stamps fan that Tate is not "toxic" to his team-mates but more just a flake & space-cadet ?

[R.J]

Takes departure from Calgary could very well free up a roster spot for Mitchell Gale.
Yup, gotta think that the Gale signing was a big factor in the Tate trade. That, money, and Dickenson also thinks highly of Buckley.

[jerrym]

Another perspective: Ott gets a guy considered toxic by teammates, who has barely played despite being in the league for eight years (averaged fewer than four attempted passes per game over that span). Calgary is pooched if BLM gets hurt, with just the inexperienced Gale and Buckley behind him.

Tate's extreme intensity on and off the field sometimes negatively affected his play and led to emotional outbursts against teammates that led to his unpopularity.

[AngeloV]

Yup, gotta think that the Gale signing was a big factor in the Tate trade. That, money, and Dickenson also thinks highly of Buckley.

Article on 3down nation from the Calgary Herald speculates the fact that Tate is so happy to be a back-up may show a lack of drive to be anything more. I can't say I disagree. If he wanted to really play, he would have been seeking an opportunity to have been a starter elsewhere rather than just re-up to be the back up. Most back ups want to start. He seems to be an exception to this.

[Neely2005]

A good article on Whitaker:

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/football/cfl/veteran-running-back-whitaker-taking-patient-approach-in-cfl-free-agency-414651354.html

[Wobbler]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Argos?src=hash">#Argos</a> sign former <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NFL?src=hash">#NFL</a> and All-American RB Kendall Hunter <a href="https://t.co/DR2NC2wH8z">https://t.co/DR2NC2wH8z</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Toronto?src=hash">#Toronto</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFL?src=hash">#CFL</a> <a href="https://t.co/gFG3vkOZZO">pic.twitter.com/gFG3vkOZZO</a></p>&mdash; Justin Dunk (@JDunk12) <a href="https://twitter.com/JDunk12/status/835572320789987328">February 25, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Shatto]

Recent signings are having a rather consistent thread of disastrous injury history . Hunter hasn't play really played for last three years because of injuries. Murray has missed 15 games over the past two years, Fuller 31 games over the past three years and Sears 36 games over the past three years. Whitaker gained over 1000 yards last year and only missed 3 games over the past two years but wasn't offered a contract by the team--strange!

[Jon Gonzo]

Chandler Worthy's game reel from Troy. Great speed, good yac and looks like he's got hands and he plays return teams. Keep an eye on this guy. May be a good one to step in for Dionte Spencer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hDHeouj5GI

[ArgoRavi]

Recent signings are having a rather consistent thread of disastrous injury history . Hunter hasn't play really played for last three years because of injuries. Murray has missed 15 games over the past two years, Fuller 31 games over the past three years and Sears 36 games over the past three years. Whitaker gained over 1000 yards last year and only missed 3 games over the past two years but wasn't offered a contract by the team--strange!

Keep in mind that Whitaker missed a boatload of games in the two or three seasons he played prior to coming to Toronto.

[argolio]

If Whitaker doesn't make it to someone's camp, he'd be an excellent mid-season injury replacement.

[Shatto]

It is correct that Whitaker has missed games in the past through injuries but in the last six seasons he has only missed 29 games as a result of injuries. That is just under 5 games a season. That is a far cry from Hunter, who has basically missed all of the last three seasons. Hopefully Hunter can return to full health and realize his obvious huge potential as a RB for the Argos. Nevertheless it is still surprising that Zimmerman has decided not to extend a contract offer to Whitaker, who had a very productive season last year. Perhaps even more surprising is lack of news that Zimmerman has attempted to sign Greenwood, who is a definite ratio changer.

[R.J]

Just what we need............... another small back. smh

[ArgoRavi]

It is correct that Whitaker has missed games in the past through injuries but in the last six seasons he has only missed 29 games as a result of injuries. That is just under 5 games a season. That is a far cry from Hunter, who has basically missed all of the last three seasons. Hopefully Hunter can return to full health and realize his obvious huge potential as a RB for the Argos. Nevertheless it is still surprising that Zimmerman has decided not to extend a contract offer to Whitaker, who had a very productive season last year. Perhaps even more surprising is lack of news that Zimmerman has attempted to sign Greenwood, who is a definite ratio changer.

IIRC, Whitaker missed the better part of two seasons before coming to Toronto. Whitaker missed 3 games in 2 years in Toronto, right? So that means that he missed a whopping 26 games in the previous 4 seasons. Anyway, just because a player has been "injury-prone" during one part of this career doesn't mean that he will continue to be. Whitaker is a case in point.

As for Greenwood, I am sure that Zimmerman has tried to re-sign him. At this point, it is a "buyer's market" so Greenwood won't get any big raise wherever he ends up.

[Shatto]

ArgoRavi makes some excellent points in regards to players who are injury prone some seasons and not others. The point I was trying to make (obviously not very successfully) is that it is difficult to understand why Zimmerman has taken a flyer on Hunter, who has missed practically all of the last three seasons through injuries but did not even offer a contract to Whitaker, who has been reasonably injury free recently and was the league's second leading rusher last year. One would have thought that based on Whitaker's recent performance , at least he would be given a training camp opportunity to show the new coach what he was capable of doing.

[Will]

ArgoRavi makes some excellent points in regards to players who are injury prone some seasons and not others. The point I was trying to make (obviously not very successfully) is that it is difficult to understand why Zimmerman has taken a flyer on Hunter, who has missed practically all of the last three seasons through injuries but did not even offer a contract to Whitaker, who has been reasonably injury free recently and was the league's second leading rusher last year. One would have thought that based on Whitaker's recent performance , at least he would be given a training camp opportunity to show the new coach what he was capable of doing.

Trestman is aware of what Whitaker is capable of, and who knows whether Popp may elect to sign him.

[AngeloV]

ArgoRavi makes some excellent points in regards to players who are injury prone some seasons and not others. The point I was trying to make (obviously not very successfully) is that it is difficult to understand why Zimmerman has taken a flyer on Hunter, who has missed practically all of the last three seasons through injuries but did not even offer a contract to Whitaker, who has been reasonably injury free recently and was the league's second leading rusher last year. One would have thought that based on Whitaker's recent performance , at least he would be given a training camp opportunity to show the new coach what he was capable of doing.

I'm guessing the only reason Whitaker was not offered a contract was that he will turn 32 during the season. He had a very good season last year, but they may have determined they want to go in a direction where they have a RB that could possibly be their starter for the next 3 or 4 years. Having said that, the way free agency now works in the CFL, that is a very difficult thing to forecast.

[Wobbler]

...it is difficult to understand why Zimmerman has taken a flyer on Hunter...
I guess bringing in anyone without CFL experience could be considered a "flyer", but Hunter's credentials are excellent. And he's been healthy for almost two years - he just wasn't able to find employment in the NFL. Obviously there will be more guys to come, but signing Hunter seems like a wise move.

I like Whitaker too - it's unlucky for him that he became a FA at a point when the supply and demand worked against him. It would be nice to have him back.

[paulwoods13]

ArgoRavi makes some excellent points in regards to players who are injury prone some seasons and not others. The point I was trying to make (obviously not very successfully) is that it is difficult to understand why Zimmerman has taken a flyer on Hunter, who has missed practically all of the last three seasons through injuries but did not even offer a contract to Whitaker, who has been reasonably injury free recently and was the league's second leading rusher last year. One would have thought that based on Whitaker's recent performance , at least he would be given a training camp opportunity to show the new coach what he was capable of doing.

One plausible explanation is salary expectations. As a CFL vet Whitaker would expect to make six figures. As a guy with no football job, Hunter could probably be signed for $50-560k. Is Whitaker twice as good, or could that gap be better spent elsewhere?

[Will]

One plausible explanation is salary expectations. As a CFL vet Whitaker would expect to make six figures. As a guy with no football job, Hunter could probably be signed for $50-560k. Is Whitaker twice as good, or could that gap be better spent elsewhere?

That's what I was thinking as well.

[ArgoZ]

Just what we need............... another small back. smh

For a little guy, he is sure built like a truck. They like what they see. If he's hungry and has the desire, I don't see a problem giving a try-out to a guy like this. He actually looks like a younger and stronger Whitaker. Hopefully he can play as well. I also would like to see a big bruising back added to the mix, but there's lots of open spots for competition in the backfield on this team now.

[OV Argo]

One plausible explanation is salary expectations. As a CFL vet Whitaker would expect to make six figures. As a guy with no football job, Hunter could probably be signed for $50-560k. Is Whitaker twice as good, or could that gap be better spent elsewhere?


Very doubtful that a player with NFL drafted & experience on his resume signs up here very often for that kind of money - those types are highly prized by a lot of CFL GMs (Barker & Jimmy P for sure) and I bet they often get enticed up here by being offered quite a bit more than CFL minimum. Might be a decent savings in $M$ vs. Whitaker but I wouldn't count on that. Again - more CFL salary speculation, guessing , rumour, unsubstantiated gossip = good fun, eh.

Hunter does have a nice resume, but also injury concerns and hasn't played for some time - and again, you can never discount some CFL thinkers' love affair with ex-NFL or all-american names. Maybe Jimmy P told Zimmerman sign this guy as soon as he saw Hunter was available to the Argos? Why Whitaker would not be given a shot to compete in TC is way beyond me. If Greenwood gets shunned aside too, it will be just be more example of how clueless this "new regime" is.

[doubleblue]

I see Hunter is only 5'7 200, another small RB along the lines that Milanovich seemed to like. He would have been put on the Argo Neg List by Barker last year. But he was a 4th round pick coming out of Oklahoma State, so he may some game. Leo used to say that generally only players taken in top 4 rounds each year in the NFL could crack a CFL line up coming out of College. I would think he would be coming in at around 75,000 with some bonuses. Cheaper and young than Whitaker.

[AngeloV]

I see Hunter is only 5'7 200, another small RB along the lines that Milanovich seemed to like. He would have been put on the Argo Neg List by Barker last year. But he was a 4th round pick coming out of Oklahoma State, so he may some game. Leo used to say that generally only players taken in top 4 rounds each year in the NFL could crack a CFL line up coming out of College. I would think he would be coming in at around 75,000 with some bonuses. Cheaper and young than Whitaker.

200 lbs, is not small for a 5'7" frame. Mike Pringle was considered a power back at 5'9 and 202.

[paulwoods13]

Why Whitaker would not be given a shot to compete in TC is way beyond me. If Greenwood gets shunned aside too, it will be just be more example of how clueless this "new regime" is.

This implies he was/is willing to sign and the org is not willing to offer him a contract. That might be true, but it also might be that he would get a shot to compete -- but at the right price. Anyone whose price is too high cannot expect a TC invitation. I don't know what BW expects to be paid but I imagine it is well above what would be paid to any unproven INT.

[doubleblue]

200 lbs, is not small for a 5'7" frame. Mike Pringle was considered a power back at 5'9 and 202.

Mike Jenkins was about that size and had a good season with the Argos, so who knows. The fact that he was picked in the 4th round means the NFL scouts saw something there.

[OV Argo]

Mike Jenkins was about that size and had a good season with the Argos, so who knows. The fact that he was picked in the 4th round means the NFL scouts saw something there.


Not only drafted, but made the 49ers roster and was Frank Gore's main back-up for a couple of seasons = that shows something IMO; hope Hunter is recovered from injuries and hungry to play football still.

There are so many good college ball RBs who will not get NFL drafted for whatever reason; surely one or two of those types could be signed to compete in Argo TC - doesn't always have to be ex-NFL roster guys who have injury issues or other problems; this is where good, quality scouting comes in, rather than just mining contacts in the States or watching the NFL waiver wire.

And Mike Jenkins is one of my all-time fave Argo running backs - short but powerful - had that one superb Argo season - too bad he got the NFL call and left the Argos - if only he had stayed and been a long-time Argo.

[jerrym]

Not only drafted, but made the 49ers roster and was Frank Gore's main back-up for a couple of seasons = that shows something IMO; hope Hunter is recovered from injuries and hungry to play football still.

There are so many good college ball RBs who will not get NFL drafted for whatever reason; surely one or two of those types could be signed to compete in Argo TC - doesn't always have to be ex-NFL roster guys who have injury issues or other problems; this is where good, quality scouting comes in, rather than just mining contacts in the States or watching the NFL waiver wire.

And Mike Jenkins is one of my all-time fave Argo running backs - short but powerful - had that one superb Argo season - too bad he got the NFL call and left the Argos - if only he had stayed and been a long-time Argo.

After bulking up to play in the NFL, he was not the same when he returned to the CFL - not the first RB to have this happen to.

[Argo57]

After bulking up to play in the NFL, he was not the same when he returned to the CFL - not the first RB to have this happen to.

Cedric Minter comes to mind for me, was noticeably bigger (and slower) when he returned to Toronto in the mid 1980's after his stint with the NY Jets.

[doubleblue]

WR/PR Andrew Hawkins has been released by the Cleveland Browns. A speedy little guy like Stephan Logan. Didn't he play for Jim Popp's Al's a while back in Montreal. 30-31 years old now and would be taking a huge pay cut to come back and play in the CFL. $1,800,000.00 US to maybe 100,000 Ca
I guess it would depend on how much he still loves to play the game.

[jerrym]

WR/PR Andrew Hawkins has been released by the Cleveland Browns. A speedy little guy like Stephan Logan. Didn't he play for Jim Popp's Al's a while back in Montreal. 30-31 years old now and would be taking a huge pay cut to come back and play in the CFL. $1,800,000.00 US to maybe 100,000 Ca
I guess it would depend on how much he still loves to play the game.

Or how wisely he has used his money.

[doubleblue]

Kudo's to the Toronto Sun today. 5 pages on the Argos.

[BATKINSON001]

Kudo's to the Toronto Sun today. 5 pages on the Argos.Cool, will have to pick one up on the way to work this afternoon

[mchesher03]

Kendall Hunter c'mon down. Younger guy still 28 years old - one time OK State Cowboy, 49er and Saint. Guess we'll see what he can do up here in training camp at least...

[Neely2005]

Kendall Hunter c'mon down. Younger guy still 28 years old - one time OK State Cowboy, 49er and Saint. Guess we'll see what he can do up here in training camp at least...

http://www.cfl.ca/2017/03/02/argos-sign-former-niner-kendall-hunter/

[Reggiemac]

I just watched his hilite tape on youtube. Looks fast and shifty at the line of scrimmage, shakes off tackles well but Didnt see any blocking or receiving but hopefully he can stay healthy and give us the breakaway threat we need.

[Reggiemac]

I just watched his hilite tape on youtube. Looks fast and shifty at the line of scrimmage, shakes off tackles well but Didnt see any blocking or receiving but hopefully he can stay healthy and give us the breakaway threat we need.

[ArgoGabe22]

Argos signed James Wilder Jr. 6,3, 230lb RB.

[Wobbler]

Yup!

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">CONTRACT SIGNED!!!!!!📝<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/TorontoArgonauts?src=hash">#TorontoArgonauts</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/getWILDER?src=hash">#getWILDER</a> <a href="https://t.co/RTe9YEHs2A">pic.twitter.com/RTe9YEHs2A</a></p>&mdash; James Wilder Jr (@IAm_Wilder32) <a href="https://twitter.com/IAm_Wilder32/status/837433836225036293">March 2, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Will]

Argos signed James Wilder Jr. 6,3, 230lb RB.

His father was a decent running back for the Buccaneers in the 80s.

[R.J]

Argos signed James Wilder Jr. 6,3, 230lb RB.
I like this signing.

[Wobbler]

Are you sure he's big enough, SnowRogue?

[Treblecharger1]

Love this signing :) Saw him a bunch with the Bills and always thought he got ripped off when they signed Reggie Bush! Also a great community guy:https://youtu.be/RS-97CxCa8E

[doubleblue]

Argos signed James Wilder Jr. 6,3, 230lb RB.

Finally! The Argos sign a BIG running back.

I remember his Dad. Didn't seem that long a go.

[mchesher03]

It has been a while hasn’t it! Seems like a long time ago that the likes of Robert Drummond and Tony Burse were taking the field… I guess Cory Boyd would qualify too as a more recent example…

[OV Argo]

Love this signing :) Saw him a bunch with the Bills and always thought he got ripped off when they signed Reggie Bush! Also a great community guy:https://youtu.be/RS-97CxCa8E

You saw him in exhibition games for the Bills? - did he ever play any NFL regular season ?

[Will]

Sean McEwan was also re-signed yesterday.

[jerrym]

Sean McEwan was also re-signed yesterday.



McEwen was scheduled to be a free agent after the 2018 season. Now, he’s committed to the Argos through the 2019 campaign – $40,000 signing bonus included.


http://3downnation.com/2017/03/02/argos-ink-extension-canadian-ol-sean-mcewen/

[jerrym]

The Argos have also signed International OL Anthony Morris.



Morris, a 6-foot-7, 300-pound, native of Memphis, Tennessee, was selected by the Oakland Raiders in the seventh round (218th overall) of the 2015 NFL Draft. He played in 37 games in four seasons at Tennessee State. As a senior, he helped anchor an offensive line that ranked 18th in the FCS in average sacks allowed per game with 1.7.


http://www.cfl.ca/2017/03/02/argos-sign-former-niner-kendall-hunter/

[jerrym]

You saw him in exhibition games for the Bills? - did he ever play any NFL regular season ?

His father gained 1500+ yards in 1984 in the NFL. Popp has always liked signing players with recognizable names. (This is not an attack on Popp - just a comment on his tendencies.)
Jr. has no regular season NFL stats. His college stats can be seen at:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/17289/type/college


(http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/17289/type/college)

[OV Argo]

His father gained 1500+ yards in 1984 in the NFL. Popp has always liked signing players with recognizable names. (This is not an attack on Popp - just a comment on his tendencies.)
Jr. has no regular season NFL stats. His college stats can be seen at:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/17289/type/college


(http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/17289/type/college)


Yeah - I was asking about Treblecharger's comments - saying of Junior he "saw him a bunch with the Bills" ? - wondering what that means when the guy has zero regular season NFL playing time?

As for "tendencies" with Jimmy P - er, yeah - seems to be an all-american hero worshipper with a lot of his moves - Ochocinco, Michael Sam and some other NFL hype/ over-rated or has been types signed by him in the past for the Als; gave big buck$ to over-rated clown act Duron Carter (son of Chris in case you hadn't heard ;o) ) then ends up cutting him; traded a 1st round draft pick for Vernon Adams last year and now the guy may not even be in the Als QB picture ? Wilder Sr. was a pretty big NFL name at one time. Not that there's anything wrong/uncommon about a CFL "thinker" being all gollly gosh impressed by former NFL/all-american hype names. A little balance might be nice though - some respect for Canadian football talent as well via the draft and free agent signings to compete in roster areas of need - we shall see.

[REAL]

Yup!

<twitterwidget class="twitter-tweet twitter-tweet-rendered" id="twitter-widget-0" data-tweet-id="837433836225036293" style="position: static; visibility: visible; display: block; transform: rotate(0deg); max-width: 100%; width: 500px; min-width: 220px; margin-top: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px;"></twitterwidget>
<script async="" src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

did the argos announce this signing of Wilder!<iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: none;" title="Twitter analytics iframe"></iframe>

[Treblecharger1]

Howdy, The Bills do a great job with opening up training camp at John Fisher college. Saw him at practice multiple times as well as some NFL preseason.


Yeah - I was asking about Treblecharger's comments - saying of Junior he "saw him a bunch with the Bills" ? - wondering what that means when the guy has zero regular season NFL playing time?

As for "tendencies" with Jimmy P - er, yeah - seems to be an all-american hero worshipper with a lot of his moves - Ochocinco, Michael Sam and some other NFL hype/ over-rated or has been types signed by him in the past for the Als; gave big buck$ to over-rated clown act Duron Carter (son of Chris in case you hadn't heard ;o) ) then ends up cutting him; traded a 1st round draft pick for Vernon Adams last year and now the guy may not even be in the Als QB picture ? Wilder Sr. was a pretty big NFL name at one time. Not that there's anything wrong/uncommon about a CFL "thinker" being all gollly gosh impressed by former NFL/all-american hype names. A little balance might be nice though - some respect for Canadian football talent as well via the draft and free agent signings to compete in roster areas of need - we shall see.

[Wobbler]

did the argos announce this signing of Wilder!<iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: none;" title="Twitter analytics iframe"></iframe>
Hmm. Not yet. There's often a delay before a signing is made official, but this is a bit longer than usual. Perhaps there has been a snag.

[Will]

Hmm. Not yet. There's often a delay before a signing is made official, but this is a bit longer than usual. Perhaps there has been a snag.

It took 1-2 weeks to announce the Rico Murray signing after it was first leaked. Mind you we saw a picture of Wilder signing what is presumably his contract.

[gilthethrill]

It took 1-2 weeks to announce the Rico Murray signing after it was first leaked. Mind you we saw a picture of Wilder signing what is presumably his contract.

It may very well have been a contract for his condo that he was signing.

[Wobbler]

Not unless The Toronto Argonauts Football Club owns a condo complex. :) It's a pretty good pic, and some of the contract particulars are legible.

But who knows. Maybe the wheels are just turning slowly, or maybe he failed his physical, or whatever. If it isn't announced this week I'd say something is wrong.

[REAL]

Not unless The Toronto Argonauts Football Club owns a condo complex. :) It's a pretty good pic, and some of the contract particulars are legible.

But who knows. Maybe the wheels are just turning slowly, or maybe he failed his physical, or whatever. If it isn't announced this week I'd say something is wrong.

Rumor is Wilder will be playing TE not RB.

[OV Argo]

Rumor is Wilder will be playing TE not RB.

You mean H-back to replace Dupuis? Wilder has some size, but any experience there? - they're going to pencil in an import at a little used / part-time position on the offence ? (and i seem to recall that Trestman's offence with the Als did not deploy an H-back type too often?)

[Wobbler]

Rumor is Wilder will be playing TE not RB.
I'd love to believe that we have plans for a designated TE. But... rumor is that you aren't well informed and should be ignored.

[AngeloV]

I'd love to believe that we have plans for a designated TE. But... rumor is that you aren't well informed and should be ignored.

LMFAO. I'm glad you said that because as we know, it may have sounded a little different coming from me.

[Wobbler]

Now it's official.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Argos?src=hash">#Argos</a> have signed international DBs Cariel Brooks and Tramain Jacobs, and international RB <a href="https://twitter.com/IAm_Wilder32">@IAm_Wilder32</a>. <a href="https://t.co/oesSSIYPmr">pic.twitter.com/oesSSIYPmr</a></p>&mdash; Toronto Argonauts PR (@Argonauts_PR) <a href="https://twitter.com/Argonauts_PR/status/841725913695977473">March 14, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[jerrym]

Argo 2012 fifth round draft choice Luke Wilson has resigned with Seattle.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Luke Willson (Seahawks), $1.8M, $800K signing bonus, $1M salary (gtd), $1M incentive</p>&mdash; Aaron Wilson (@AaronWilson_NFL) <a href="https://twitter.com/AaronWilson_NFL/status/843493918822023168">March 19, 2017</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[1971GreyCup]

I see Shawn Lemon and Ricky Ray's jerseys in the Argo Shop $199.00. The other jersey is Ricky Foleys 1/2 off at $99.00. Is the marketing department getting ahead of football operations?

[ArgoZ]

I see Shawn Lemon and Ricky Ray's jerseys in the Argo Shop $199.00. The other jersey is Ricky Foleys 1/2 off at $99.00. Is the marketing department getting ahead of football operations?

Ha! I thought the same thing a few weeks ago when I was checking out merchandise. It's foreshadowing bad luck his way, if anything.

[AngeloV]

I see Shawn Lemon and Ricky Ray's jerseys in the Argo Shop $199.00. The other jersey is Ricky Foleys 1/2 off at $99.00. Is the marketing department getting ahead of football operations?

Ha! I thought the same thing a few weeks ago when I was checking out merchandise. It's foreshadowing bad luck his way, if anything.

My guess is that they probably just had too many Foley jerseys made up, and are trying to clear the overstocked item.

[ArgoFanFrank]

The Ricky Ray jersey was $99.99 for the longest time as well. I think they put it back up as soon as Trestman announced Ray as the Argos' starting QB for the 2017 season!

[Will]

My guess is that they probably just had too many Foley jerseys made up, and are trying to clear the overstocked item.

They were also trying to push Hazelton jerseys last year too :p

[AngeloV]

They were also trying to push Hazelton jerseys last year too :p

Good thing they likely didn't make any Gurley and Elliott jerseys.

:)

[Wobbler]

We signed Cash, as previously reported, and another LT candidate to add to the list.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Argos?src=hash">#Argos</a> have signed international DL Alan-Michael Cash and international OL Ryan Mack. <a href="https://t.co/4zr7KCA3ge">pic.twitter.com/4zr7KCA3ge</a></p>&mdash; Toronto Argonauts PR (@Argonauts_PR) <a href="https://twitter.com/Argonauts_PR/status/844956967512760320">March 23, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[ArgoGabe22]

Argos sign three from all big football programs (if that means much). They have also released Kilgore, whom AV predicted a week ago.

http://www.argonauts.ca/2017/04/03/argos-signing-brown-harris-mcdaniel/

[AngeloV]

Argos sign three from all big football programs (if that means much). They have also released Kilgore, whom AV predicted a week ago.

http://www.argonauts.ca/2017/04/03/argos-signing-brown-harris-mcdaniel/

Sorry to see Kilgore released, but I figured as much after speaking with Popp last week. He really seemed to like what Fajardo has to offer.

DB Harris, a 2nd round pick. Might be someone to look for. WR Harris, had some nice punt return numbers in college, and has decent size.

[Wobbler]

The Jeff Mathews signing likely had Popp's blessing, so yeah, Kilgore looked vulnerable. Especially if Popp expressed interest in Fajardo (I didn't know that). I don't think he played himself off the team last year - despite the INTs - but he didn't secure a spot either.

[paulwoods13]

Personally I'd rather have Kilgore in camp than Matthews, but realistically the open spot is the fourth-string role at this point. Ricky, Willy and Fajardo on the roster and one development/insurance guy.

[OV Argo]

Argos sign three from all big football programs (if that means much). They have also released Kilgore, whom AV predicted a week ago.

http://www.argonauts.ca/2017/04/03/argos-signing-brown-harris-mcdaniel/

Interesting - another couple of signings in Brown & Harris with pretty decent NFL resumes. Wonder how many of these guys - including RB Hunter, DE Butler and the ex-Saints receiver who's name escapes me now ( guy had an eye-popping 39 yards/catch season for the Saints in some limited work there one season). Wonder how many of these guys end up on the Argo roster and can make an impact? Seems like good TC competition though in some areas of big need.

[Stevoman]

I'm okay with Kilgore being gone as I'd rather see them invest in Fajardo.

[gilthethrill]

I feel Kilgore had his chance to display his talent. Too bad he could not build on his 1st career start when he really helped the team beat Ottawa on the road to put them at 4-2.

[Shatto]

The team has signed a fair number of INT receivers --11 up to now. Many of them appear to have been quality players at one time and perhaps still are, so hopefully there will be some good competition The ex Saint's player is Morgan --he played 21 regular season games in the NFL. All told, 4 of the players were drafted and 5 have played regular season games in the NFL, anywhere from 3 to 26 games. Out of this group, the team should manage to find some very productive receivers. Could be a very interesting and entertaining training camp.

[dmont]

.

Thomas Gordon released:

http://www.cfl.ca/2017/04/13/argos-release-lb-thomas-gordon/

[Wobbler]

I was looking for the phrase "...to pursue opportunities in the NFL" but didn't see it in that news blip for some reason. Sorry to see him go - I thought he was quietly effective at multiple positions.

[AngeloV]

I was looking for the phrase "...to pursue opportunities in the NFL" but didn't see it in that news blip for some reason. Sorry to see him go - I thought he was quietly effective at multiple positions.

Looked good early on, but like many others not so good when the team went south following a BS roughing the passer call in Winnipeg. Not that I'm bitter.

:D

[gilthethrill]

I would like to take this time to thank Thomas Gordon for his efforts and wish him well in his future endeavors.

[doubleblue]

Gordon could hit no doubt about that. Would also make a good safety in time IMO, if he was a Canadian with time to develop. They must feel they have players in camp better suited for the new Defensive Coordinator's defense.

[ArgoGabe22]

I wasn't a huge fan of Gordon starting at LB. I hope they find a more "true" LB than just inserting a DB.

[1971GreyCup]

I wasn't a huge fan of Gordon starting at LB. I hope they find a more "true" LB than just inserting a DB.

I did like it when #10 Willie Pile moved up from DB.

[doubleblue]

I did like it when #10 Willie Pile moved up from DB.

Lol. Willie Pless was about the same size as Gordon and he played MLB. Different era though wasn't it.

[OV Argo]

Lol. Willie Pless was about the same size as Gordon and he played MLB. Different era though wasn't it.

Pless only played MLB later in his career - and IMO he was far better as an OLB - with the Argos and later with BC.

Wayne Harris is (IMO) maybe the all-time best CFL MLB and apparently he played there at around or under 200 pound range - amazing, but so-called "under-sized" players can still be league best; JC Sherritt is a very good CFL MLB (and his huge season with the Esks ranks up there with all-time great seasons by a CFL MLB) - he's quite small by pro MLB standards.

The CFL using smaller converted US college ball safeties as OLBs is good for the "different eras" story. Old offences might have licked their lips at the opportunity to pound the run game (with big TEs to block too) at lightweight OLBs, but that type of offensive adjustment is off the table now with same old look predictable offences and no use for an applied ground game.


Gordon seemed like a big hitter, but he was maybe more like a bit of a one big game wonder - he seemed lost or whiffed on tackles some other times; another Willie Pile or Marcus Ball would be nice to find though, let alone a Willie Pless.

[paulwoods13]

Wayne Harris is (IMO) maybe the all-time best CFL MLB and apparently he played there at around or under 200 pound range - amazing, but so-called "under-sized" players can still be league best; JC Sherritt is a very good CFL MLB (and his huge season with the Esks ranks up there with all-time great seasons by a CFL MLB) - he's quite small by pro MLB standards.


Not to take anything away from Wayne Harris, one of the all-time greats, but in his era everyone was way smaller than today. Linemen on both sides of the line played in the range of 220-235 pounds. There were no 300-pound, or even 275-pound, o-linemen to contend with.

[OV Argo]

Not to take anything away from Wayne Harris, one of the all-time greats, but in his era everyone was way smaller than today. Linemen on both sides of the line played in the range of 220-235 pounds. There were no 300-pound, or even 275-pound, o-linemen to contend with.


Yep - I keep NFL yearbooks I've bought going back to the early 80s: the average Canadian college ball O-line now is wayyy bigger than all NFL O-lines of back then (300 pounders are average now; 270+ was big for the pros back then and further); but big deal - most or all the O-lines of back then would have been closer to 300 to if they had today's applied diets/supplements and more & better weight training techniques and personal fitness gurus guiding them. Wayne Harris woulda/coulda have maybe played at 210 or something like that, but the point is he was quite small by MLB standards - of then even (and there were plenty of 240 - 260 range O-linemen to deal with then, plus big bruising fullbacks and large real tight ends). And if pro O-lines now average 50 or more pounds more than the standards of the 60s say, then shouldn't all MLBs now weigh in at around 260 or so to deal with them ? Linemen are where there is this large weight differential now compared to football past; other position groups are often in the same range (and in the CFL case with lightweight OLBs featured - they are often smaller).

[Argo57]

Yep - I keep NFL yearbooks I've bought going back to the early 80s: the average Canadian college ball O-line now is wayyy bigger than all NFL O-lines of back then (300 pounders are average now; 270+ was big for the pros back then and further); but big deal - most or all the O-lines of back then would have been closer to 300 to if they had today's applied diets/supplements and more & better weight training techniques and personal fitness gurus guiding them. Wayne Harris woulda/coulda have maybe played at 210 or something like that, but the point is he was quite small by MLB standards - of then even (and there were plenty of 240 - 260 range O-linemen to deal with then, plus big bruising fullbacks and large real tight ends). And if pro O-lines now average 50 or more pounds more than the standards of the 60s say, then shouldn't all MLBs now weigh in at around 260 or so to deal with them ? Linemen are where there is this large weight differential now compared to football past; other position groups are often in the same range (and in the CFL case with lightweight OLBs featured - they are often smaller).

Let's also add the fact that teams ran the ball more back in those days with a fullback leading the way so the linebacking position was just as demanding as it is today.
Guys like Dan Kepley, Danny Bass, Wayne Harris and the like could play in any era.

[argolio]

And if pro O-lines now average 50 or more pounds more than the standards of the 60s say, then shouldn't all MLBs now weigh in at around 260 or so to deal with them ?Not with the passing game completely replacing the running game as the dominant form of offensive attack, and the greater emphasis on speed that began in the 80s. You also don't see huge NFL safeties like Steve Atwater or David Fulcher any more.

We're seeing something similar in the NHL as well, thanks to the post-lockout rule changes. Pittsburgh won the Cup last year in large part due to their speed advantage. No one could keep up with them.

[paulwoods13]

I have no idea whether a guy like Harris could play in today's game. MLBs back then did not have to deal with nearly as much passing as we see now, or as much motion. There was no "waggle" (running start), there was only one slotback, and no five- or six-pack receiver sets. The way offences play dictates the way defences deploy personnel and the schemes they use. The rise of DBs converted to LBs goes back about 20 years. I think Argos under Matthews were among the first to deploy guys this way. Again, not taking anything away from the heroes of the past -- they were the best at their position in their day, and in cases like Harris deserve to still be remembered among all-time greats. But could Harris do what MLBs are required to do now? I have no idea.

[Jon Gonzo]

I have no idea whether a guy like Harris could play in today's game. MLBs back then did not have to deal with nearly as much passing as we see now, or as much motion. There was no "waggle" (running start), there was only one slotback, and no five- or six-pack receiver sets. The way offences play dictates the way defences deploy personnel and the schemes they use. The rise of DBs converted to LBs goes back about 20 years. I think Argos under Matthews were among the first to deploy guys this way. Again, not taking anything away from the heroes of the past -- they were the best at their position in their day, and in cases like Harris deserve to still be remembered among all-time greats. But could Harris do what MLBs are required to do now? I have no idea.

To me, these are often pretty unfair comparisons and it makes sense to me that it all remains relative. I cannot imagine any reason why yesterdays greats, would not be just as great today. Weight can easily be manipulated by proper nutrition, training and by the leaps and bounds made in fitness and kinesiology.

Good players are good players. Systems come and systems go.

[doubleblue]

I have no idea whether a guy like Harris could play in today's game. MLBs back then did not have to deal with nearly as much passing as we see now, or as much motion. There was no "waggle" (running start), there was only one slotback, and no five- or six-pack receiver sets. The way offences play dictates the way defences deploy personnel and the schemes they use. The rise of DBs converted to LBs goes back about 20 years. I think Argos under Matthews were among the first to deploy guys this way. Again, not taking anything away from the heroes of the past -- they were the best at their position in their day, and in cases like Harris deserve to still be remembered among all-time greats. But could Harris do what MLBs are required to do now? I have no idea.

Definitely a different game now from Wayne Harris' days. Back then the Offensive Guards were 6'0-6'1 225-230 and most Tackles 6'3-6'4 240-250. The Guards did a lot of pulling for off tackle trap plays and around end sweeps. Guys like Roger Perdix 6'1 225 of Ottawa and Jack Abendshen 6' 230 of Sask. were your typical all stars Guards of that era. Couldn't ask the current 300 lbers to do that very often. The CFL has always had unlimited back field motion but until Mathews or Hugh Campbell came up with the idea of the 5 or 6 receiver set with the waggle we still had more of a NFL style offense.
Maybe we always think it was better in the good old days with a TE, FB who could actually do more than just block, but i don't see anything changing back to that now. Maybe a guy like Auclair who could be a force as an inside receiver as a TE, but not too many guys like him coming out these days. Easier to find five 300 LBers up front, a Canadian Fullback who can block a bit and throw in a back up O Lineman at TE on 1st down to try and get 4 or 5 yards from the one RB. Then hope one can get the first down with a quick short pass after taking out the TE and FB for WR's. Exciting as all get out.
I actually fear for the future of Professional Football with the predictable offenses and the Concussion issue that's not going away.

[Argo57]

To me, these are often pretty unfair comparisons and it makes sense to me that it is all remains relative. I cannot imagine any reason why yesterdays greats, would not be just as great today. Weight can easily be manipulated by proper nutrition, training and by the leaps and bounds made in fitness and kinesiology.

Good players are good players. Systems come and systems go.

Points well made Gonzo!

[Wobbler]

WR Stephen Hill and DB Jabriel Washington signed today (http://www.argonauts.ca/2017/04/21/argos-sign-georgia-tech-product-stephen-hill/). Hill is only 25, was a second round pick in 2012, and already has a pretty good NFL resume, but... tore his ACL in 2015.

[Wobbler]

Five players signed after yesterday's evaluation camp (http://www.argonauts.ca/2017/04/25/argos-sign-five-from-free-agent-workout-in-bradenton/).

Durell Eskridge is interesting. He was well regarded as a college FS heading into the 2015 NFL draft but wasn't selected, and has had various injuries after being signed by the Jets and never played in the NFL. It's hard to imagine him quickly adapting to the CFL, but the talent is there.

[OV Argo]

Five players signed after yesterday's evaluation camp (http://www.argonauts.ca/2017/04/25/argos-sign-five-from-free-agent-workout-in-bradenton/).

Durell Eskridge is interesting. He was well regarded as a college FS heading into the 2015 NFL draft but wasn't selected, and has had various injuries after being signed by the Jets and never played in the NFL. It's hard to imagine him quickly adapting to the CFL, but the talent is there.


Drospem Collins ? - they must be kidding, right - guy is brutal = they're desperate for receivers.

[gilthethrill]

Drospem Collins ? - they must be kidding, right - guy is brutal = they're desperate for receivers.

Reminds me of last year's surprising signing of Wallace Miles.

[OV Argo]

Reminds me of last year's surprising signing of Wallace Miles.


Another mediocre import receiver - they certainly get favored for playing time and chances.

[OV Argo]

WR Stephen Hill and DB Jabriel Washington signed today (http://www.argonauts.ca/2017/04/21/argos-sign-georgia-tech-product-stephen-hill/). Hill is only 25, was a second round pick in 2012, and already has a pretty good NFL resume, but... tore his ACL in 2015.


Hill certainly seems like an interesting prospect - 6-4, 215 size and apparently blazing speed (sub 4.4 forty reports ?) - 20 some catches for the Jets 2 seasons in a row after they drafted him in the 2nd round.

Joins Posey and Morgan as TC Argo receivers with nice NFL resumes - playing time and some production = the new young "big 3" to go with vet SJ Green (hopefully he is healthy and can regain his form ?) ? plus Jeff Fuller and a couple of other receives with NFL resumes (Brown & Debose) - not sure if an Argo TC has ever seen a camp with that much ex-NFL resume receiver talent around ? ***; wonder if they are thinking of going all import for the receiving corps? Jones & Noel were IMO excellent draft picks last year (especially where they got Noel later in the draft) = 2 young Canadian receivers with excellent CIS resumes - I had hoped they would both become solid receivers in the Argo 5 pack - wonder if either see much playing time this coming season ? Nice to have lots of TC depth and competition at an important position group that needs to be way better than last season - and with Ricky Ray back to form to deliver the ball ?

*** = more that I think about this - wonder if any CFL TC has ever featured a receiver group that has that much ex-NFL resume talent ( either drafted or played there with some production) - Posey, Morgan, Hill, Brown & Debose (plus Fuller has a couple of NFL TC/roster shots) - cripes throw in Chandler Worthy and Devon Wiley who have played in the NFL with some receptions ??? And they've signed the likes of CFL vets Paden and Collins for TC too. How many freakin' receivers can they have in TC ?

[Shatto]

Good points OV--by my count the team now has 14 International receivers, 5 of whom were drafted and 6 having played anywhere from 3 to 33 games in the NFL. Great TC competition but like you, I really hope that at least one of Jones or Noel get good playing time. Both have excellent potential and it would be a shame to see that potential wasted.

[Shipyard]

Drospem Collins ? - they must be kidding, right - guy is brutal = they're desperate for receivers.

they use these borderline guys to gauge talent they bring in ... he is nothing but cannonfodder for camp.

if he comes anywhere close to making the team, we are in trouble.