Giovinco blaming the Argos for TFC's woes

[Mightygoose]

Mods, if you want to move this, please do.

http://www.tsn.ca/soccer/video/giovinco-blames-bmo-s-other-tenant-for-poor-play-at-home~1014017

After the field held up well between both teams and multiple events.

How is it Giovinco's place to blame the Argos for the field conditions despite coming off their best season including going 3 - 1 during the playoffs on home field.

I was really hoping the rift between the two fan bases can be set aside now but comments like this will just keep it going.

[Will]

Or maybe playing soccer on a grass field in November-December could be the issue?

[dmont]

.

Funny how it never seems to be a problem for the opposing team....... but that's none of my business..... ;)

[Neely2005]

I actually think that it's TFC's fault that the Argos sucked this year. TFC obviously ruined our field.

[Antwon]

Funny how he didn't cry about the field after they won the playoff game against Montreal!!!
Maybe TFC ripped the field up so bad in that game that it was impossible for it to return to pristine condition in NOVEMBER!!!!!

[Mulder]

I wonder how the Grounds Crew feels about being thrown under the bus?

I also wonder what MLSE thinks about investing all that money now?

How are cramps related to the field condition anyways?

[Downtownfan]

this is kinda just too stupid for words. they had a great season, the field looked fine, they did really well in the playoffs, they did not complain about the fiasco in Montreal, and yet it is the Argos to blame? Maybe they just lost a crappy game in a crappy way, and they should leave it at that.

[Antwon]

Also when's the last time an NHL'er blamed the ice for a game lost??!!??!! NEVER because they are men!
It's a know fact that most NHL arenas have poor ice at various times of the year. Converting for hockey, basketball, concerts etc. And especially in the playoffs due to the warmer weather. Talk about a cry baby!

[ArgoGabe22]

Giovinco probably got cramps for the following reasons: overplayed (not enough rest) throughout the season or the delay between games was far too long. I think they went 2 weeks without a game.

[PullTogether73]

There are no words.
SMH.

[AngeloV]

Well from what I saw, he was horrible on Saturday, so I guess it has to be someone's fault other than his own. He needs to call the WGR550 whinerline.

[gilthethrill]

Well that's settles it!!! The only thing to do now is for TFC to move out of BMO Field!

[Ron]

Smart PR moves. Blame the other team at the field and their fans will eat it up. Takes away any personal responsibility for their own play. Let's not bother with the groundskeepers publicly stating that the field is far more ripped up after a soccer game than any football game.

[Downtownfan]

you know, the more I think about this, the stupider it becomes. Didn't any of our so called "journalists" at this press conference ask about the magical impact of the fabled "pitch" on the rest of the team? Was it localized only to one player? Should Argos players be concerned next year about cramping up because of the field? This is the kind of moronic statement that will stand and be eaten up by some as "proof" of the problems of a shared field, instead of being called out for what it is, complete and unmitigated bullshit designed to deflect away from a crappy game and a crappy result. What a fucking baby.

You know, I was once a very big soccer fan: saw my first Blizzard game back in 78 as a kid, and have seen Arsenal at Highbury, and Inter at San Siro. When TFC first came on the scene, I was pretty keen on the team, but the complete assholeness of their then management (Peddie et al) towards the Argos, and the continued assholeness of so many of their "supporters" towards the Argos have turned me off so badly. Soccer itself, the MLS version, is pretty sloppy stuff (the MLS final, which I did not watch, thankfully, makes the point), and it doesn't help when the high priced talent moans about the field. What a turn off.

[mchesher03]

oh captain "no show" in the playoffs comes across as looking pretty stupid here.

airing this complaint days after the final game and taking into account there's been exactly 1 football game (grey cup) between october 15 and now makes him just look silly and looking for excuses.

always a new excuse here with TFC.

[mchesher03]

Well from what I saw, he was horrible on Saturday, so I guess it has to be someone's fault other than his own. He needs to call the WGR550 whinerline.

he was basically non-existant in the parts of the game I watched. My only takeaways were him whining to the ref every time a Seattle player defended him. Full disclosure I played soccer growing up and loved playing against the type of player who wines that much, you know they're rattled...

[R.J]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIikqPmbgvI

[bender]

you know, the more I think about this, the stupider it becomes. Didn't any of our so called "journalists" at this press conference ask about the magical impact of the fabled "pitch" on the rest of the team? Was it localized only to one player?

They did ask. It's in the original post. Jozy Alitore also was asked about the field.



You know, I was once a very big soccer fan: saw my first Blizzard game back in 78 as a kid, and have seen Arsenal at Highbury, and Inter at San Siro. When TFC first came on the scene, I was pretty keen on the team, but the complete assholeness of their then management (Peddie et al) towards the Argos, and the continued assholeness of so many of their "supporters" towards the Argos have turned me off so badly. Soccer itself, the MLS version, is pretty sloppy stuff (the MLS final, which I did not watch, thankfully, makes the point),

How is this any different than "You know, i've watched football at Ralph Wilson and 'insert NFL stadium here'. Football, the CFL version is sloppy". You're making the same arguments about MLS that CFL fans have heard their whole lives.


and it doesn't help when the high priced talent moans about the field. What a turn off.

http://news.nationalpost.com/sports/cfl/terrible-just-terrible-turf-grass-combo-at-bmo-field-appeared-to-be-an-issue-on-key-grey-cup-play

[Downtownfan]

Did Jozy say the pitch caused him cramps too?

My point is that I would probably be much more of a TFC fan if there was not such a clear animus towards the Argos from many TFC fans. CFL and NFL are two different games; I have been to many NFL games (including Bills games), and NCAA games, and CIS games, etc., and can make a judgment on the quality of different versions of football, thank you.

As Dave Dickenson said, "Who knows if that can be resolved? The grass stops at a certain yard line and the one end zone is just regular. When you have the two different surfaces that’s tough on guys with their cleats... But I love the stadium. I think it’s a great size. I like grass, I can’t believe how green it is out there.” Or, as Rick Campbell said when it comes to the field, "But that’s part of the deal and we won’t make a big focus on that." Not sure where I see someone blaming the field for their performance, or claiming that it caused injury.

[Mulder]

They did ask. It's in the original post. Jozy Alitore also was asked about the field.




How is this any different than "You know, i've watched football at Ralph Wilson and 'insert NFL stadium here'. Football, the CFL version is sloppy". You're making the same arguments about MLS that CFL fans have heard their whole lives.



http://news.nationalpost.com/sports/cfl/terrible-just-terrible-turf-grass-combo-at-bmo-field-appeared-to-be-an-issue-on-key-grey-cup-play

The obvious solution to this is to switch it all to field turf. Many newer studies coming out saying it's safer than grass. Can especially stop cramps.

[AngeloV]

They did ask. It's in the original post. Jozy Alitore also was asked about the field.




How is this any different than "You know, i've watched football at Ralph Wilson and 'insert NFL stadium here'. Football, the CFL version is sloppy". You're making the same arguments about MLS that CFL fans have heard their whole lives.



http://news.nationalpost.com/sports/cfl/terrible-just-terrible-turf-grass-combo-at-bmo-field-appeared-to-be-an-issue-on-key-grey-cup-play

Just checked all 5 of your posts here. Every one TFC/MLS related (and this your first since 2012). Serious question...why did you post now? Do you have some sort of radar detector telling you when you have to go somewhere and defend TFC?

[Will]

I thought that TFC players had been doing a good job of avoiding embroiling themselves in the "Argos @ BMO" controversy...that is until now...

[Mightygoose]

I haven't heard anything from a player on the field yet. Hopefully this is only a view by a select few like Giovinco and Altidore.

Otherwise, this may not be the end of this as I understand they're both signed for 3 more seasons. This could affect future high priced DPs coming to Toronto and the Argos will constantly be blamed.

Funny thing is the Jays had issues signing and keeping free agents for years with the artificial surface being the cause. They wanted to boot the Argos out for that reason, yet the Jays are still on turf and the Argos are on grass...Can't win here it seems.

[Scooter McCray]

Didn't the Argos bend over backwards to accommodate the TFC schedule by only playing within certain time frames of when TFC played? Not to mention the Argos never once played on a damp field. Their pitch was pristine. I really want to hear someone from MLSE respond to this and defend their ground crew and the Argos.

[Argo57]

Waaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh!!!!!
Congrats Seattle!!!

[paulwoods13]

This could affect future high priced DPs coming to Toronto and the Argos will constantly be blamed.


I guess those high-priced DPs could go to Montreal for playoff games on artificial turf with sunken patches around the old baseball bases. Or to New York to play in Yankee Stadium on a field much smaller than regulation with dirt around the infield.

[ArgoGabe22]

I would imagine the Montreal game right after the GC, would've had the most poorest pitch conditions of the season and I heard crickets. I heard crickets all season but after they lose, it becomes an issue? Give me a break.

[jerrym]

Blaming others for your problems almost never leads to a solution.

[ArgoZ]

I guess those high-priced DPs could go to Montreal for playoff games on artificial turf with sunken patches around the old baseball bases. Or to New York to play in Yankee Stadium on a field much smaller than regulation with dirt around the infield.

Clever. They could also play on the many artificial turf fields all around the MLS, something many world class players and World Cups refuse to do. Seba cramped up due to overexertion in cold weather, simple as that. If he expects us to believe that was caused by the turf, he is a moron. What a baby. I have lost a lot of admiration for the Italian striker. I think his strike partner Altidore and himself need to work on their finishing, rather than working on excuses why they couldn't find the back of the net.

[R.J]

There are some very good artificial surfaces out there nowadays, so hopefully MLSE finally just decides to go with the cheaper option. It seems as though the perception of the old carpets is behind soccer people's current view of turf.

[R.J]

LMAO, Even soccer coaches flop


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCacbm4AV2E

[Skinny G]

So wait... he blames field conditions (with the Argos playing on it) that impacted him over the last few games of the year... lets see these dates:

- October 15: Last Argos Home Game
- October 23: TFC wins vs Chicago - No Complaints
- October 26: TFC wins vs Philly - No Complaints
- October 30: TFC wins vs NYCFC (Only 4 days after previous game) - No Complaints
- November 27: Grey Cup
- November 30: TFC wins vs Mtl - No Complaints
- December 10: TFC loses... whining begins....

8 days between the last Argos game and the next TFC game...2 soccer playoff games with no football happening between the next week without issue... 3 days between the Grey Cup and the 2nd leg of the Eastern Final, but no issue as they won big... another 10 days between games to the MLS cup...YA...SURE... the Argos caused all the pitch problems to happen and his cramping to occur at the end of the year...couldn't be his body just reacting wear and tear eh??

[Neely2005]

So wait... he blames field conditions (with the Argos playing on it) that impacted him over the last few games of the year... lets see these dates:

- October 15: Last Argos Home Game
- October 23: TFC wins vs Chicago - No Complaints
- October 26: TFC wins vs Philly - No Complaints
- October 30: TFC wins vs NYCFC (Only 4 days after previous game) - No Complaints
- November 27: Grey Cup
- November 30: TFC wins vs Mtl - No Complaints
- December 10: TFC loses... whining begins....

8 days between the last Argos game and the next TFC game...2 soccer playoff games with no football happening between the next week without issue... 3 days between the Grey Cup and the 2nd leg of the Eastern Final, but no issue as they won big... another 10 days between games to the MLS cup...YA...SURE... the Argos caused all the pitch problems to happen and his cramping to occur at the end of the year...couldn't be his body just reacting wear and tear eh??

Personally I think that playing soccer outdoors in December in Canada might not be the best idea.

[Skinny G]

Personally I think that playing soccer outdoors in December in Canada might not be the best idea.

I agree, and he/TFC (and all the other East Coast teams) should take that up with the MLS if they are concerned with playing games in extremely cold and potentially snowy weather. His body struggled to deal with the colder weather and/or beating he may have taken through the year. Saying his cramping and lackluster play at the end of the year is all on him... not the pitch... not the Argos.

[Stevoman]

Well, this is definitely most offensive to the grounds people who have done a fantastic job this season. For a guy who makes more money than all of the Argos players combined, one would hope he could be man enough to admit that he pulled himself out of the game and therefore let his own team down by not being available for penalty kicks and that blaming the Argos just makes him look even worse. Foley and Black said what needed to be said.

[ArgoRavi]

Personally I think that playing soccer outdoors in December in Canada might not be the best idea.

That is putting it kindly. There is no reason why the MLS season has to be so long and extend well into December.

[argolio]

Good luck to him ever getting back into the Italian national team.

[Bleeds Double Blue]

Personally I think that playing soccer outdoors in December in Canada might not be the best idea.Maybe they could have had a word with our friends at the Rogers Center.
:D

[Kenners]

Matt Black and Foley are defending the team and cfl on Twitter.

[jojoheath]

What a baby, lost all respect for that little wimp. Has to play in MLS because he cant play in any of the other REAL Leagues!!

[LLB997]

the nicest "pitch" in the mls and he still complains. the guys makes 7 million a season and his teammates make 70 grand a season. what a cremepuff this guy is.

[Will]

What a baby, lost all respect for that little wimp. Has to play in MLS because he cant play in any of the other REAL Leagues!!

Which (and this is going to be an unpopular opinion) is the exact same thing the CFL haters would say about Foley and Black.

[LLB997]

Which (and this is going to be an unpopular opinion) is the exact same thing the CFL haters would say about Foley and Black.

Foley and Black are not cited as the top CFLers as Giovinco is for MLS. That said... The NFL always gives CFL'ers a Look , but Italy's coach has just said that Giovinco will not get an invite to team Italy because "MLS doesn't count". Italy's coach actually said that playing in and dominating the MLS makes him mentally weak . LOL

[argotom]

Foley and Black are not cited as the top CFLers as Giovinco is for MLS. That said... The NFL always gives CFL'ers a Look , but Italy's coach has just said that Giovinco will not get an invite to team Italy because "MLS doesn't count". Italy's coach actually said that playing in and dominating the MLS makes him mentally weak . LOL


The MLS is horrible quality 5th Division or worse, so let's not compare it to real soccer played in Europe and the rest of the world.

[paulwoods13]

There are some very good artificial surfaces out there nowadays, so hopefully MLSE finally just decides to go with the cheaper option.

Now I'm going to emulate TFC fans and demand that BMO stick with real grass. It is one of the aspects I like most about our move there.

[AngeloV]

Now I'm going to emulate TFC fans and demand that BMO stick with real grass. It is one of the aspects I like most about our move there.

TBH Paul, I like real grass too. But I don't like players running from real grass to turf as is the case in the end zones at BMO. I would prefer 1 or the other. It is going to be a factor on a key play at some point in a football game. When the Argos played the Stamps, Kenny Shaw scored a TD on a quick in route over the goal line in which the Stamps corner fell when he went to make his break. It obviously wasn't a key point in that game of season, but it could have been. The 2 different surfaces require different footwear.

[Neely2005]

TBH Paul, I like real grass too. But I don't like players running from real grass to turf as is the case in the end zones at BMO. I would prefer 1 or the other. It is going to be a factor on a key play at some point in a football game. When the Argos played the Stamps, Kenny Shaw scored a TD on a quick in route over the goal line in which the Stamps corner fell when he went to make his break. It obviously wasn't a key point in that game of season, but it could have been. The 2 different surfaces require different footwear.

Isn't only the North end zone turf?

[R.J]

Isn't only the North end zone turf?
North Endzone is all turf, but the South is half turf and half grass.

[AngeloV]

North Endzone is all turf, but the South is half turf and half grass.

Thanks.

[bender]

The north end is the side where the permanent seating was removed to extend the field for football. The endzone is all turf there.

The south end usually has a couple feet of concrete between the field and the wall during soccer and it's mainly used as a walkway for stadium personnel. For Argos, they cover the remaining concrete with turf and run it right up to the wall.

[Neely2005]

The north end is the side where the permanent seating was removed to extend the field for football. The endzone is all turf there.

The south end usually has a couple feet of concrete between the field and the wall during soccer and it's mainly used as a walkway for stadium personnel. For Argos, they cover the remaining concrete with turf and run it right up to the wall.

Thanks.

[Will]

The north end is the side where the permanent seating was removed to extend the field for football. The endzone is all turf there.

The south end usually has a couple feet of concrete between the field and the wall during soccer and it's mainly used as a walkway for stadium personnel. For Argos, they cover the remaining concrete with turf and run it right up to the wall.

I think it was that way for soccer in the south end even before the Argos moved in right?

[bender]

I think it was that way for soccer in the south end even before the Argos moved in right?

Nothings changed in the south end. They simply pull the couple feet of turf and remove all the padding and you never really know it was there to begin with.

[Scooter McCray]

the nicest "pitch" in the mls and he still complains. the guys makes 7 million a season and his teammates make 70 grand a season. what a cremepuff this guy is.He makes $7M? Well he's a bloody big deal then. No wonder he lead his team through the playoffs and took his team to the promised land in the bloody shootout.

[ArgoRavi]

Matt Black and Foley are defending the team and cfl on Twitter.

And a couple of TFC fans were taking shots at Black especially because he and other CFLers have to work other jobs in the off-season. Oh, what a crime that is!

[DoubleBlue_Red]

the nicest "pitch" in the mls and he still complains. the guys makes 7 million a season and his teammates make 70 grand a season. what a cremepuff this guy is.

Bradley and Altidore both make about 6m each as well. Other players such as Cheyrou are on 300k contracts. MLSE is paying these guys salary akin to a mid range Premier League club. The Argos will not win this turf war, they would be best playing at a facility built for Canadian football i.e. university.

[Argocister]

Bradley and Altidore both make about 6m each as well. Other players such as Cheyrou are on 300k contracts. MLSE is paying these guys salary akin to a mid range Premier League club. The Argos will not win this turf war, they would be best playing at a facility built for Canadian football i.e. university.

Beg to differ with you on this one .
At the present there is no turf war .... Why should there be one. There are a group of MLS teams that share their field. Toronto should be no different.
It is what it is .... Argos are there.

Salaries to the players have no bearing on who inhabits the city owned field.

[R.J]

Bradley and Altidore both make about 6m each as well. Other players such as Cheyrou are on 300k contracts. MLSE is paying these guys salary akin to a mid range Premier League club. The Argos will not win this turf war, they would be best playing at a facility built for Canadian football i.e. university.
It's cute that TFC fans think they can win anything.

[LLB997]

Bradley and Altidore both make about 6m each as well. Other players such as Cheyrou are on 300k contracts. MLSE is paying these guys salary akin to a mid range Premier League club. The Argos will not win this turf war, they would be best playing at a facility built for Canadian football i.e. university.

3 players on TFC make up over 80 percent of the salary cap for the club. The fact you mention the 3rd to 4th top salaries dropping by 5.7 million dollars says it all. Nothing to win, Nothing will change. Actually i take that back, they may remove the grass in the end all due to this so TFC will be the big loser as CFL teams are used to fake grass.

[Scooter McCray]

How do the economics of TFC support these outrageous salaries? Why does MLSE fund this with no hope of ever recouping or ever breaking even?

[Mulder]

3 players on TFC make up over 80 percent of the salary cap for the club. The fact you mention the 3rd to 4th top salaries dropping by 5.7 million dollars says it all. Nothing to win, Nothing will change. Actually i take that back, they may remove the grass in the end all due to this so TFC will be the big loser as CFL teams are used to fake grass.

CFL dabbled in the DP salary cap exempt players. MLS would be wise to take a history lesson.

[Mulder]

How do the economics of TFC support these outrageous salaries? Why does MLSE fund this with no hope of ever recouping or ever breaking even?

Right now? A salary system that is paid for by the league, not the team. Not sure if that has changed recently or not. So expansion fee's as well. MLS also holds the national team games (that ones that sell and people watch well) ransom so that they can turn the profits from those games towards MLS salaries. Sad state of the league if your main product isn't profitablle that you have to turn to National Team games and International 'friendlies' for additional revenue.

[DoubleBlue_Red]

It's cute that TFC fans think they can win anything.

They won the Eastern conference of MLS. The MLS Cup sold out in minutes. The Grey Cup was in danger of not selling out. Right there is a barometer of this market. Minnesota, Atlanta and LA are adding MLS teams, its completely a growth league and sport.

[ArgoGabe22]

They won the Eastern conference of MLS. The MLS Cup sold out in minutes. The Grey Cup was in danger of not selling out. Right there is a barometer of this market. Minnesota, Atlanta and LA are adding MLS teams, its completely a growth league and sport.

How fast would've it sold if TFC wasn't playing?

[DoubleBlue_Red]

How fast would've it sold if TFC wasn't playing?

If TFC wasn't playing in it, Toronto wouldn't have hosted :).

[argolio]

How do the economics of TFC support these outrageous salaries? Why does MLSE fund this with no hope of ever recouping or ever breaking even?The economics don't -- the MLSE board does. Right now, the T in TFC really stands for Tim Lieweke. Now that he's gone, the question is what will MLSE do after Giovinco and his other high-priced pals leave.


If TFC wasn't playing in it, Toronto wouldn't have hosted :).Quit being a fool. We already know what would have happened since Toronto actually did host an MLS championship game without the host city playing.

[Rich]

MLSE is paying these guys salary akin to a mid range Premier League club.

Then they are overpaid. The suggestion that the MLS is getting anywhere near mid-range Premier League talent is laughable. How many MLS players graduated directly to the Premiership this year? Any? On the other hand around 10-15 CFL players (correct me if I'm wrong Argofans) move up to the Best Football League In The World every year.

Isn't this be proof that the CFL is closer to the NFL in terms of talent than the MLS is to the premiership?

[gilthethrill]

If TFC wasn't playing in it, Toronto wouldn't have hosted :).

Why did MLS soccer do away with holding the MLS Cup at neutral sites?

[Mulder]

They won the Eastern conference of MLS. The MLS Cup sold out in minutes. The Grey Cup was in danger of not selling out. Right there is a barometer of this market. Minnesota, Atlanta and LA are adding MLS teams, its completely a growth league and sport.

And which game do you think was more profitable?

In most cases, even after the price drop. Grey Cup ticket prices at the cheapest sections were 4x more and in the more expensive sections 7-8x more. Regardless how many "giveaways" there may have been.

The barometer is novelty in this case, a MLS had to go from hosting at a neutral site to what they do now because had this game been hosted somewhere else it probably wouldn't have sold out. I mean, the 100th Grey Cup sold out before the first regular season game that season, in June. Is that an indicator for the barometer of the market?

[DoubleBlue_Red]

Then they are overpaid. The suggestion that the MLS is getting anywhere near mid-range Premier League talent is laughable. How many MLS players graduated directly to the Premiership this year? Any? On the other hand around 10-15 CFL players (correct me if I'm wrong Argofans) move up to the Best Football League In The World every year.

Isn't this be proof that the CFL is closer to the NFL in terms of talent than the MLS is to the premiership?

They are paid what MLSE feels is a worthy investment based on what the market can yield. Your disputing that Giovinco who played for Juventus and has caps for the Italy national team is not a top flight player? Plus Bradley who played in Serie A and Altidore who played in the Premier League. There is no indication that TFC will be selling these guys any time soon.

The problem that the CFL faces with my generation is that it is viewed as 3rd rate, behind NFL and NCAA football. The 2012 Grey Cup may have sold out quickly, but look how far things have fallen in 4 years. Given the Argos attendance and interest in the Grey Cup, would lead one to believe that BMO is not the solution for the Argos - getting back on topic.

[Mulder]

They are paid what MLSE feels is a worthy investment based on what the market can yield. Your disputing that Giovinco who played for Juventus and has caps for the Italy national team is not a top flight player? Plus Bradley who played in Serie A and Altidore who played in the Premier League. There is no indication that TFC will be selling these guys any time soon.

The problem that the CFL faces with my generation is that it is viewed as 3rd rate, behind NFL and NCAA football. The 2012 Grey Cup may have sold out quickly, but look how far things have fallen in 4 years. Given the Argos attendance and interest in the Grey Cup, would lead one to believe that BMO is not the solution for the Argos - getting back on topic.

So are you a Argo fan, or a TFC fan? BMO is the only solution currently. It wasn't going to be a massive come back but a slow build. As for how far things have 'fallen' if you can't understand the difference between 100th Grey Cup and 104th, at double the price of the 100th, then no one can help you.

[Ron]

Just my take ...

How did everyone get suckered into discussing whether the Argos deserve to be at BMO or whether MLS is superior to the CFL when the topic was about a TFC star being a whinny little bitch?

[AngeloV]

It's cute that TFC fans think they can win anything.

No $hit.

I know it seems as though I'm easily annoyed, especially lately, but I really can't stand TFC trolls coming on here and pretending to be Argos fans so they can spew their BS.

[gilthethrill]

When will MLS expand again into Canada?

[Neely2005]

If TFC wasn't playing in it, Toronto wouldn't have hosted :).

So don't compare it to the Grey Cup where the home team wasn't playing.

Also IIRC the MLS championship game used to be played at a neutral site like the Grey Cup but the MLS fans didn't support it so it had to be changed to be played at one of the participating teams venues.

[Neely2005]

They are paid what MLSE feels is a worthy investment based on what the market can yield. Your disputing that Giovinco who played for Juventus and has caps for the Italy national team is not a top flight player? Plus Bradley who played in Serie A and Altidore who played in the Premier League. There is no indication that TFC will be selling these guys any time soon.

The problem that the CFL faces with my generation is that it is viewed as 3rd rate, behind NFL and NCAA football. The 2012 Grey Cup may have sold out quickly, but look how far things have fallen in 4 years. Given the Argos attendance and interest in the Grey Cup, would lead one to believe that BMO is not the solution for the Argos - getting back on topic.

If the CFL is viewed as 3rd rate then MLS is 12th rate.

Also can someone get rid of this Troll?

[Rich]

They are paid what MLSE feels is a worthy investment based on what the market can yield. Your disputing that Giovinco who played for Juventus and has caps for the Italy national team is not a top flight player? Plus Bradley who played in Serie A and Altidore who played in the Premier League. There is no indication that TFC will be selling these guys any time soon.

The problem that the CFL faces with my generation is that it is viewed as 3rd rate, behind NFL and NCAA football. The 2012 Grey Cup may have sold out quickly, but look how far things have fallen in 4 years. Given the Argos attendance and interest in the Grey Cup, would lead one to believe that BMO is not the solution for the Argos - getting back on topic.

There is no logical argument to claim the CFL is 3rd rate and the MLS is not 3rd rate. Altidore couldn't hack it in the Premier league. If any of the TFC's big three were good enough for the Premiership (or any of the top European leagues) then they would be playing in it. Meanwhile every year there are several CFL players who are deemed good enough to play in the NFL.

[Mightygoose]

When will MLS expand again into Canada?

I highly doubt we'll ever see another one in Canada.

With expansion fees being talked about now up to 200 million USD, I can't see how a market the size of Calgary, Edmonton or Ottawa having the corporate heist to finance that kind of debt, pay their players in US funds too including competing with the big market clubs for the high priced DPs to maintain enough interest to be viable.

There's enough larger US cities interested that MLS will value more for their national footprint.

Once the expansion money dries up, there can be big growing pains down the road especially if the single entity model is ever dropped. If the CPL is up and stable, may be a nice landing spot for teams in trouble!

[R.J]

They won the Eastern conference of MLS. The MLS Cup sold out in minutes. The Grey Cup was in danger of not selling out. Right there is a barometer of this market. Minnesota, Atlanta and LA are adding MLS teams, its completely a growth league and sport.
You trolls make me laugh.

[doubleblue]

They are paid what MLSE feels is a worthy investment based on what the market can yield. Your disputing that Giovinco who played for Juventus and has caps for the Italy national team is not a top flight player? Plus Bradley who played in Serie A and Altidore who played in the Premier League. There is no indication that TFC will be selling these guys any time soon.

The problem that the CFL faces with my generation is that it is viewed as 3rd rate, behind NFL and NCAA football. The 2012 Grey Cup may have sold out quickly, but look how far things have fallen in 4 years. Given the Argos attendance and interest in the Grey Cup, would lead one to believe that BMO is not the solution for the Argos - getting back on topic.

Anybody who thinks the NCAA is a better calibre than the CFL doesn't know much about football. The CFL is full of players who were all stars, all conference, all american on their NCAA team and they are now full grown Men who are better now than when they played College Football. The CFL is also faster ball than the College brand. Not that I needed conformation, but I did see a quote from one of the US officials that officiated CFL games this past summer during the exchange program. He said the CFL was definitely faster than the NCAA Div I.

[Kenners]

I don't get it. Why does this have to even be a "turf war" ?! There were 0 complaints during the season. They've actually done better than any other season. If they made one more penalty kick they'd be champs and I highly doubt we'd be having this conversation. It's incredibly frustrating to hear anyone not have any accountability on themselves. And then when someone calls you out on it, you have legions of people agreeing!? Really? C'mon mannnnn

[Kenners]

824

[ArgoZ]

Just my take ...

How did everyone get suckered into discussing whether the Argos deserve to be at BMO or whether MLS is superior to the CFL when the topic was about a TFC star being a whinny little bitch?

:D, so casually said and funny.

Yeah, no one is going to succesfully preach a TFC agenda on an Argos board, and vice versa.

[ArgoZ]

Anybody who thinks the NCAA is a better calibre than the CFL doesn't know much about football. The CFL is full of players who were all stars, all conference, all american on their NCAA team and they are now full grown Men who are better now than when they played College Football. The CFL is also faster ball than the College brand. Not that I needed conformation, but I did see a quote from one of the US officials that officiated CFL games this past summer during the exchange program. He said the CFL was definitely faster than the NCAA Div I.

I believe the stat is that less than 4% of college players make it as a pro. So how would any of those teams compete with a team of 100% pros?

[ArgoRavi]

When will MLS expand again into Canada?

Let's hope not as we need less MLS in this country than more. MLS was designed to develop the US national team and that is what it has done well with help from Toronto FC. It has done next to nothing for Canadian soccer. Our national men's program will only get better if we have a national soccer league of our own like we used to have with the Canadian Soccer League back in the late 1980s. BTW, how well supported was that league in Toronto?

[Kenners]

http://tipofthetower.com/2016/12/16/feud-between-toronto-fc-and-toronto-argonauts-unnecessary/ great article

[Argo57]

:D, so casually said and funny.

Yeah, no one is going to succesfully preach a TFC agenda on an Argos board, and vice versa.

Yes, just laugh at the stupidity and move on (as difficult as it is sometimes).

[Argo57]

Let's hope not as we need less MLS in this country than more. MLS was designed to develop the US national team and that is what it has done well with help from Toronto FC. It has done next to nothing for Canadian soccer. Our national men's program will only get better if we have a national soccer league of our own like we used to have with the Canadian Soccer League back in the late 1980s. BTW, how well supported was that league in Toronto?

Well stated Ravi, we all know a Canadian soccer league would be grossly inferior to MLS😛

[gilthethrill]

http://tipofthetower.com/2016/12/16/feud-between-toronto-fc-and-toronto-argonauts-unnecessary/ great article

Yes great article, but I commend players like Matt Black going on twitter to stick up for his team. Giovinci made himself an easy target.

[Bleeds Double Blue]

Can we assume that Giovinci will blame the Leafs for hosting the Winter Classic if TFC loses its home opener?

[Argo57]

Can we assume that Giovinci will blame the Leafs for hosting the Winter Classic if TFC loses its home opener?

No that wouldn't be allowed.

[Kenners]

Yes great article, but I commend players like Matt Black going on twitter to stick up for his team. Giovinci made himself an easy target.i definitely agree.

[Shatto]

First an admission-I grew up attending Premier League games as a kid-- I appreciate soccer but I love the CFL and especially the Argos. Several recent occurrences demonstrate why soccer will have a problem becoming more than a niche sport in Canada:
!) Giovinco's blaming his poor play on cramps caused by having to share the field with the Argos. Compare that with Hank playing brilliantly in the GC, even with an injured leg or Baun scoring a Stanley Cup winning goal though playing with a broken leg!
2) Soccer can be deadly dull ( MLS Final) Compare that with the GC. Only the most dedicated and myopic soccer fan can think the game was exciting. In the long run this type of play will turn off the casual Canadian sports fan.
3) The lack of Canadian players starting for TFC and other MLS teams. In the Eastern Final with 2 Canadian teams, only 2 Canadians started. The MLS including TFC, exists primarily to benefit Americans players. Recent rule changes allows a Canadian to be a National player but only if he was a member of a MLS academy before the age of 16. Not good enough --just as American are always Nationals, only a Canadian should be a
National on any Canadian based team. This would force the Canadian MLS teams to play and develop more more Canadian players. Think of the huge number of Canadian football players who became stars but only because of the CFL import rules. Canadian MLS teams should learn from the CFL experience.

On another note--the Argos have started their renewal of ST's but with a complete lack of any exciting annoucements (change to coaching?) Please, Argos, appoint Clemons as President of football operations so we get some dynamic leadership.

[paulwoods13]

The MLS final was not very exciting, but the TFC playoff games leading up to that were mostly entertaining spectacles. Some new fans might have been attracted by those games, and not all of them would have been totally turned off by the final.

As for Giovinco, his remarks were foolish; even if he actually believed that his cramps were the result of TFC sharing the field and not other factors (such as playing for two additional months and playing in horrible rain one week and minus-10 weather the next), he would have been wise to keep his mouth shut. I still have yet to hear any plausible explanation as to how one CFL game played there in a seven-week span could have led to a guy suffering cramps in TFC playoff games.

[jerrym]

Just my take ...

How did everyone get suckered into discussing whether the Argos deserve to be at BMO or whether MLS is superior to the CFL when the topic was about a TFC star being a whinny little bitch?

It's called trolling.

[jerrym]

I don't get it. Why does this have to even be a "turf war" ?! There were 0 complaints during the season. They've actually done better than any other season. If they made one more penalty kick they'd be champs and I highly doubt we'd be having this conversation. It's incredibly frustrating to hear anyone not have any accountability on themselves. And then when someone calls you out on it, you have legions of people agreeing!? Really? C'mon mannnnn

I agree completely.

[jerrym]

Let's hope not as we need less MLS in this country than more. MLS was designed to develop the US national team and that is what it has done well with help from Toronto FC. It has done next to nothing for Canadian soccer. Our national men's program will only get better if we have a national soccer league of our own like we used to have with the Canadian Soccer League back in the late 1980s. BTW, how well supported was that league in Toronto?

With Canada 118th in FiFA rankings (http://www.fifa.com/fifa-world-ranking/associations/association=can/men/index.html), it certainly has done next to nothing for Canadian soccer. I agree about the Canadian Soccer League.