Josh Bourke has been released

[Will]

Not a surprising move.

[gilthethrill]

This move opens up a lot of cap space. Did he really play that poorly?

[Mightygoose]

Were there locker room issues there as well?


Matthew ScianittiVerified account ‏<s>@</s>TSNScianitti <small class="time">2h2 hours ago (https://twitter.com/TSNScianitti/status/818529940723429376) </small> Matthew Scianitti Retweeted Toronto Argonauts
There were rumbling of discontent between Bourne and Argos coaching/personnel staff. Never a strong fit between player and team. <s>#</s>CFL (https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFL?src=hash)https://twitter.com/torontoargos/status/818519850796597248 … (https://t.co/HjLRhKWcn8)

Matthew

[paulwoods13]

He didn't play well to my eye, in the 10 games he dressed for. Got beaten several times for sacks and took some untimely penalties. But I'm sure there's more to this story and I'm sure we'll never know exactly what caused him and his close buddy, Brian Bulcke, to fall out of favour so quickly. It's a real shame in Bourke's case because he seemed likely to be a strong contributor at a vitally important position.

[R.J]

^ It seems as though some of the vets were none to happy with the coaching staff.


Not a surprising move.
Nope.

This move opens up a lot of cap space. Did he really play that poorly?
I think he did, and IMO the line played better with him out. Bourke's contract was reportedly over $230k, so we're saving some good cap room.

[doubleblue]

Wasn't there some rumour of a bonus coming due in January? Didn't hurt the cap much last year as I believe he was on the 6 game for two thirds of the season. Hard to believe he could lose it in one year, but it would be pretty difficult to pass block after dislocating a thumb. But if the rumours are true about discontent with the Coaches I would think it would be easier to replace a couple of assistant coaches than good veteran players. My way or the highway army discipline might work in the NFL but I'm not so sure it does in the CFL, especially with the "Nationals".

[OV Argo]

Be interesting to see if Bourke continues playing in the CFL and where.

Very hard for me to believe one of the perennial best OTs in the league for years, suddenly lost his playing ability in one season - and he isn't that old; trying to play thru an injury and struggling I can understand.

Not getting along with the coaches = player has to go pretty well. Bourke, Raymond and Bulcke ALL did not pan out as veteran help last year? - i find that more than a bit odd.

O-line is IMO a huge area of concern for this team (and Bourke rebounding to form could have helped tremendously); along with D-backfield; and D-line; and QB situation.

Guess it's going to be Barker & Millanovich to fix things though = good luck there.

[paulwoods13]

But if the rumours are true about discontent with the Coaches I would think it would be easier to replace a couple of assistant coaches than good veteran players. My way or the highway army discipline might work in the NFL but I'm not so sure it does in the CFL, especially with the "Nationals".

I have to disagree with this. The inmates can't run the asylum. Deciding to replace the coaches would require accepting that players were in the right/coaches were in the wrong. If mgmt didn't agree with that notion, it would be insane to make coaches pay the price with their job.

[ArgoRavi]

I read a tweet from one reporter - can't recall who now - that the consensus around the league was that Bourke did not play well so it seemed to be quite noticeable. Nobody else in the league has picked up Bulcke so it is likely the case that injuries have ended his career. Raymond is another one who is likely at the end of the line.

Barker has never been big on signing veteran free agents from other teams until last season and that pretty much blew up in his face so I expect he will be extra cautious with the free agent route from now on.

[Neely2005]

I read a tweet from one reporter - can't recall who now - that the consensus around the league was that Bourke did not play well so it seemed to be quite noticeable. Nobody else in the league has picked up Bulcke so it is likely the case that injuries have ended his career. Raymond is another one who is likely at the end of the line.

Barker has never been big on signing veteran free agents from other teams until last season and that pretty much blew up in his face so I expect he will be extra cautious with the free agent route from now on.

So no free agents and no first round draft picks. Well at least he's good at making trades.

[OV Argo]

So no free agents and no first round draft picks. Well at least he's good at making trades.


He'll sign a few guys who were once NFL draft picks or made an NFL roster - and these are guaranteed superstars to be handed playing time.

[Argo57]

I have to disagree with this. The inmates can't run the asylum. Deciding to replace the coaches would require accepting that players were in the right/coaches were in the wrong. If mgmt didn't agree with that notion, it would be insane to make coaches pay the price with their job.

True the inmates can't run the asylum but conversely if the coaching staff have as reported "lost the room" and respect of the players that situation should be dealt with as well, only so many players you can release before that becomes counterproductive and detrimental to the team.

[ArgoGabe22]

I too heard that he was due a bonus as well. Regardless if he was a good or bad presence in the locker-room he wasn't worth the coin he was getting.

[Neely2005]

True the inmates can't run the asylum but conversely if the coaching staff have as reported "lost the room" and respect of the players that situation should be dealt with as well, only so many players you can release before that becomes counterproductive and detrimental to the team.

Exactly. How many players have to be let go before we start to question if it's actually the players?

[Argo57]

I too heard that he was due a bonus as well. Regardless if he was a good or bad presence in the locker-room he wasn't worth the coin he was getting.

His play certainly didn't match his paycheque, wonder if he ends up back in Montreal.

[R.J]

His play certainly didn't match his paycheque, wonder if he ends up back in Montreal.
It wouldn't surprise me if the Riders go after him.

[Jon Gonzo]

A lot of veterans certainly and mysteriously came up with "mediocrititus,' on this team last year. Hmmmmm.

[gilthethrill]

True the inmates can't run the asylum but conversely if the coaching staff have as reported "lost the room" and respect of the players that situation should be dealt with as well, only so many players you can release before that becomes counterproductive and detrimental to the team.

It certainly seems that the list of players who had issues with last years coaching is getting longer.

[KCargosfan]

Bourke is on the downside of his career. Better to cut bait too early than too late with his hefty salary. He's got at best 2 years left, and his days of being the best tackle in the league are far behind him.

[Will]

Exactly. How many players have to be let go before we start to question if it's actually the players?

Remember Diane Clemons (deleted) tweet?

[Ron]

Exactly. How many players have to be let go before we start to question if it's actually the players?

As many as it takes to get rid of all the bad one's.

This team was terrible last season. (Well that's what is always being said around here) So should we then not be happy to see all of the old guard that sucked be gotten rid of? Well yuppy duppy we do.

Also ... with everyone wanting a new coaching staff and brass all off season ... folks would be cheering when any new GM & HC would be releasing all of these exact same turds.

[mchesher03]

Remember Diane Clemons (deleted) tweet?


I don't, what did she have to say?

[mchesher03]

Similar to many here I'm fine with and anticipate significant player turnover this offseason. We were a 5 win team last year, argue all you want about player continuity etc. but this was NOT an exciting team last season. Also back to the topic at hand, I think Bourke was bad last year and I for one thought it was a good move by Barker to sign him.

[Jon Gonzo]

As many as it takes to get rid of all the bad one's.

This team was terrible last season. (Well that's what is always being said around here) So should we then not be happy to see all of the old guard that sucked be gotten rid of? Well yuppy duppy we do.

Also ... with everyone wanting a new coaching staff and brass all off season ... folks would be cheering when any new GM & HC would be releasing all of these exact same turds.


Funny you say that; Josh Bourke and Keon Raymond have spotless records and come from winning programs. I am sure they have never been called that before. I have never heard an unkind word. In fact, I am sure it is unfair. Now, a couple of other guys may qualify, but it seems it didn't stop them from getting employment elsewhere. We'll see if they learn. They certainly are talented and we'll be forced to face them on the other side of the line soon enough. My preference would have been to have the Coach fire a shot across the bow, let one of them go, and get the others in tow. But, our Coach had a tough time of it last season. Nothing was working for him. If he's given an honour this season, he won't be allowed to fail in these issues again. Nor should he be allowed.

[ArgoGabe22]

At least the team isn't being quiet about it.

[Ron]

Funny you say that; Josh Bourke and Keon Raymond have spotless records and come from winning programs. I am sure they have never been called that before. I have never heard an unkind word. In fact, I am sure it is unfair. Now, a couple of other guys may qualify, but it seems it didn't stop them from getting employment elsewhere. We'll see if they learn. They certainly are talented and we'll be forced to face them on the other side of the line soon enough. My preference would have been to have the Coach fire a shot across the bow, let one of them go, and get the others in tow. But, our Coach had a tough time of it last season. Nothing was working for him. If he's given an honour this season, he won't be allowed to fail in these issues again. Nor should he be allowed.

Wasn't talking about their personalities.

[Neely2005]

I don't, what did she have to say?

Basically that it was the coaches not the players.

[doubleblue]

Just wondering if being on the CFLPA executive has anything to do with players being released or traded. Jeff Keeping, Keon Raymond and Josh Bourke all on the PA executive and all ex Argos.

[ArgoRavi]

Just wondering if being on the CFLPA executive has anything to do with players being released or traded. Jeff Keeping, Keon Raymond and Josh Bourke all on the PA executive and all ex Argos.

The Argos signed Bourke and Raymond knowing their involvement with the CFLPA executive so I doubt their release had anything to do with that. Keeping signed with Winnipeg as a free agent last season but was injured in the first quarter of their first preseason game and never returned.

[jerrym]

Not a surprising move.


This move opens up a lot of cap space. Did he really play that poorly?


Bourke is on the downside of his career. Better to cut bait too early than too late with his hefty salary. He's got at best 2 years left, and his days of being the best tackle in the league are far behind him.

This is the good news for Bourke's career with the Argos.

[Reggiemac]

Yes he played very poorly on one play that really ruined our year. He was real lazy on the block that he missed that ended up taking out Ricky Rays knee and our season was lost just like that. Good riddance.

[gilthethrill]

Yes he played very poorly on one play that really ruined our year. He was real lazy on the block that he missed that ended up taking out Ricky Rays knee and our season was lost just like that. Good riddance.

Was that the play when Vaughn Marten took out Ray with a low hit on the knee well after the ball had been delivered?

[Neely2005]

As many as it takes to get rid of all the bad one's.

This team was terrible last season. (Well that's what is always being said around here) So should we then not be happy to see all of the old guard that sucked be gotten rid of? Well yuppy duppy we do.

Also ... with everyone wanting a new coaching staff and brass all off season ... folks would be cheering when any new GM & HC would be releasing all of these exact same turds.

So shouldn't we get rid of the bad coaches too?

[jerrym]

Josh Bourke announced his retirement yesterday. This was a formality as no one wanted him after the Argos cut him in January.