You Are Invited to a New Event: Argos Open Mic Night

[Jamiedykstra]

Hi Everyone,

We are excited to share some news about a new event we are introducing this year called Argos Open Mic Night.

The Argos Open Mic Night is designed to provide our most devoted and valued fans a platform to meet with our business leadership group for a face-to-face conversation. We will be holding a few of these events over the next several weeks as we continue to plan for the upcoming season.

The group of fans we identified to invite to the first Argos Open Mic Night is you: some of our most passionate and vocal fans who are active on the ArgoFans.com Forum.

Each invite-only event will be held at our business office in downtown Toronto and will include food and refreshments. Present at the meeting from our team will be our President and CEO Michael Copeland, Senior Vice President of Business Operations Sara Moore, Senior Director of Ticket Sales and Service Michael Hook, Senior Director of Marketing and Events Meghan Rogers and myself.

This does not replace the Argos’ Town Hall event. The Town Hall will also include our new GM Jim Popp and Head Coach Marc Trestman and will be held at a later date. News on the front soon.

The Argos Open Mic Night you have been invited to attend is on Tuesday, March 28 at 6:00pm ET.

Please RSVP to jdykstra@argonauts.ca by Thursday, March 23 at 5:00pm to reserve your spot.

Thank you for your continued support. We hope to see you at the event.

Sincerely,

Jamie Dykstra

[Mightygoose]

Great to hear the initiative!

What time on the 28th does it start?

[Will]

Thank you for the invitation Jamie!

For all of us: I would encourage those who are able to take advantage of this opportunity to attend! Fans on here have brought up many, many issues over the past year or so and the team is extending an olive branch to us to allow our voices to be heard.

[Jamiedykstra]

My apologies. I didn't mention the time. It will run from 6:00pm - 8:00pm.


Great to hear the initiative!

What time on the 28th does it start?

[Tobythor]

Thanks for setting this up. I'll be there.

[Shatto]

Would loved to have attended but unfortunately have a previously set commitment. Hope evening goes well. l

[argofan81]

Hi Everyone,

We are excited to share some news about a new event we are introducing this year called Argos Open Mic Night.

The Argos Open Mic Night is designed to provide our most devoted and valued fans a platform to meet with our business leadership group for a face-to-face conversation. We will be holding a few of these events over the next several weeks as we continue to plan for the upcoming season.

The group of fans we identified to invite to the first Argos Open Mic Night is you: some of our most passionate and vocal fans who are active on the ArgoFans.com Forum.

Each invite-only event will be held at our business office in downtown Toronto and will include food and refreshments. Present at the meeting from our team will be our President and CEO Michael Copeland, Senior Vice President of Business Operations Sara Moore, Senior Director of Ticket Sales and Service Michael Hook, Senior Director of Marketing and Events Meghan Rogers and myself.

This does not replace the Argos’ Town Hall event. The Town Hall will also include our new GM Jim Popp and Head Coach Marc Trestman and will be held at a later date. News on the front soon.

The Argos Open Mic Night you have been invited to attend is on Tuesday, March 28 at 6:00pm ET.

Please RSVP to jdykstra@argonauts.ca by Thursday, March 23 at 5:00pm to reserve your spot.

Thank you for your continued support. We hope to see you at the event.

Sincerely,

Jamie Dykstra

Where is the Argo's business office -- 10 Lower Spadina Avenue? Since I would likely be driving, what parking is available close to the business office?

[Jamiedykstra]

Where is the Argo's business office -- 10 Lower Spadina Avenue? Since I would likely be driving, what parking is available close to the business office?

yes - 10 Lower Spadina - fifth floor. There is a shoppers drug mart on Queens Quay a block away that has parking on the third level of the parking garage.

[Neely2005]

Unfortunately our son has an away playoff hockey game scheduled for that day. If the Series wraps up early we will try to attend but we won't know until after Sunday so we won't meet the RSVP deadline.

[jerrym]

Living on the wet coast I obviously won't be there. However, this is great news for Argo fans and a badly needed form of communication between the team and fans. I hope someone will provide a detailed update here on what happens at the meeting. Thanks in advance.

[Red Head]

Excellent opportunity for both sides. Since I am not able to make it that evening any idea when next ones are scheduled or can we submit written questions/ comments that could be answered here after event .
A complete link post event would be great as well for all of us to get a feel for the tone of the meeting as well as the discussion.

[TOBenfica]

looking forward to it... great opportunity to address ideas from the fan base.

[ArgoGabe22]

I'm planning on being there

[Jamiedykstra]

Unfortunately our son has an away playoff hockey game scheduled for that day. If the Series wraps up early we will try to attend but we won't know until after Sunday so we won't meet the RSVP deadline.

that's ok if you miss the RSVP deadline. Just let me know if you will be joining us as soon as you know.

[Will]

I look forward to meeting those members who will attend.

[argofan81]

Would have loved to attend but just realized that I have a conflict that day. I hope that I will be able to attend one of the other events being offered to another group.

[mchesher03]

Great to see the organization doing these things – well done Jamie (and colleagues). Won’t be able to make this one but I look forward to the Town Hall – someone advise how this goes!

[AngeloV]

So, who's all going to this? I will be there, just curious who else has committed to it.

[ArgoGabe22]

So, who's all going to this? I will be there, just curious who else has committed to it.

I'll be there.

[Will]

I felt it would make sense if I attended.

[paulwoods13]

I'm attending. Looking forward to it.

[AngeloV]

Cool, looking forward to seeing you guys there.

[Treblecharger1]

I will be attending... Look forward to seeing you guys!

[Neely2005]

that's ok if you miss the RSVP deadline. Just let me know if you will be joining us as soon as you know.

Thanks our playoff series ended early so we will be able to attend, I sent you an Email to RSVP.

[TOBenfica]

I'm in.

[Neely2005]

What a great event. Thank you to all that were involved.

[Argos1983]

Any updates as to what was discussed at tonight's event?

[paulwoods13]

Great event. I'll try to write up a summary of what we heard tomorrow.

[ArgoGabe22]

Any updates as to what was discussed at tonight's event?

I won't share much now but will say that I am a lot more confident in Copeland, Moore and even Jim Popp, who made an unexpected appearance.

[BATKINSON001]

Great event. I'll try to write up a summary of what we heard tomorrow.looking forward to this. I didn't even know about the meeting....

[Will]

I will echo what Gabe said!

I have been especially critical of Copeland and Moore over the last 6 months, but I think after yesterday that they do deserve some slack from the fanbase. Things aren't going to change overnight, but I feel more confident about the running of this team now than I did 24 hours prior let me put it that way.

Thanks to Jamie for hosting us last night and it was nice meeting some of the members on here.

[argofan81]

Great event. I'll try to write up a summary of what we heard tomorrow.

I really wanted to attend but had a conflict. I'm not really part of other groups (though I am a season ticket holder) so probably won't get the chance to attend another one. Would love to hear about how the event was run as well as what was discussed. The few that have posted have been vague thus far but I'm sure we'd all love to share in the enthusiasm!!

[Argos1983]

Great event. I'll try to write up a summary of what we heard tomorrow.

Thanks - looking forward to it.....

[AngeloV]

It was a great evening, and I echo what those that were there have already stated. I was especially impressed with Copeland, and how he takes responsibility for things. A great surprise to have Jim Popp there last night too. Who the hell was it that compared him to the Gliebermans?

Thanks to Jamie for organizing.

[paulwoods13]

I really wanted to attend but had a conflict. I'm not really part of other groups (though I am a season ticket holder) so probably won't get the chance to attend another one. Would love to hear about how the event was run as well as what was discussed. The few that have posted have been vague thus far but I'm sure we'd all love to share in the enthusiasm!!

I'm pretty sure the Town Hall in May will be open to all STHs.

[BATKINSON001]

I'm pretty sure the Town Hall in May will be open to all STHs.. Is it scheduled yet?

[mchesher03]

Glad to hear it was a well-received event and appears to have been a success. Let’s see what these guys can do, I for one am willing to give Popp / Trestmann a shot this year. Call me naïve, a fool, etc. that’s fine. Can’t be any worse than last year IMO.

Looking forward to the Town Hall anyways (and obviously the season).

[paulwoods13]

. Is it scheduled yet?

In May but I don't think they have worked out all details. May be held at BMO.

[Neely2005]

So who's going to post the picture from last night?

[Will]

So who's going to post the picture from last night?

I'll give it a shot after work.

[argomANIA]

It was awesome meeting everyone yesterday! Nice to put some faces to names. I thought it was a great event.
Good job on the Argos for reaching out to their core. Very informative.

[argofan81]

Is it possible for someone to summarize the topics discussed if not the details? Were opinions asked of us? Perhaps those of us who weren't able to attend could send an email with our thoughts/suggestions as well?

[Will]

Patience :)

[Hook16]

It was great meeting those of you who attended last night. Thank you for taking the time to come in and share your feedback. If you were not able to attend I welcome your feedback so please fee free to email me anytime. You core fans are so very important to the Toronto Argonauts and we are going to continue to work hard to make this season great.

Thank you
Michael Hook
mhook@argonauts.ca

[paulwoods13]

Here is my summary of the mtg, covering many but by no means all of the points raised, in no particular order. It was attended by five Argo execs (Copeland, Moore, Popp, Dykstra and Hook) and about two dozen members of this forum.

BUSINESS STUFF

Copeland grew up as an Argo fan because of family connection. He shagged punts from the Big Zee, hung around with Symons and Gabler, and had an Argo flag (boat logo) on his bedroom wall as a kid.

The question of boat logo returning was raised. (Surprisingly it took until 1:51 into the meeting!) It won't become primary logo but will remain a secondary logo with new merchandise this year, designed and controlled by the Argos org, not the league. The shield remains the main logo on the uni (hooray!) but it is difficult to use in merch because very difficult to embroider. (Have to admit that had never occurred to me.) The new simplified A logo will also be a "campaign element" featured on merch. Mockups of new uses of these logos on merch were passed around, looked good.

The team got into BMO for the first time only about two wks before first game, and didn't get some details finalized (including big ones like goal post installation) until very close to that game. BMO mgmt. was not ready for what the Argos required. They thought Argos would have similar needs to TFC, but the needs are different. For instance BMO had only one replay machine attached to the video board (since soccer seldom needs replays). The Argos have purchased a second replay machine so we can get more replays this year.

Despite many improvements, BMO is not state of the art. No wifi yet and there is no way to give STHs a card that could be automated for merch and concession purchases.

TFC mgmt. is co-operative and helpful. TFC worked hard to ensure Argos got the schedule dates they needed this year.

There will be signage in BMO celebrating the Argos' Grey Cup championships. Mockups of new banners (similar to the old ones) were passed around.

There will be a new ticket price map in 2018, with fewer price points, less confusion and fewer instances where big price gaps are essentially side by side. Michael Hook, the new ticket mgr, seems committed to simplifying pricing.

Hypothetically, the team would rather have 25,000 fans at an average price of $50 than 16,000 fans at an average price of $90 -- the more fans in there, the better atmosphere and the more new fans can be won over.

There will be more brand ambassadors (around 20) in the building on game days. STHs will be catered to, with their own entrance and with brand ambassadors instructed to keep us happy and tend to our needs.

The org has grown recently from 14 staff to 35, so feels better equipped for the season. Last season was too much too soon; new building, Grey Cup etc., led to mistakes. Copeland accepted responsibility and promised they will have learned and will be better.

They are emphasizing group sales this season. Reaching out to minor and touch football orgs, among others.

To combat the "NFL is better" mentality of this marketplace, they plan to emphasize the accomplishments of players wherever they were before: NCAA, CIS, NFL. Show on the video board that so-and-so was a member of national championship team at Alabama or Laval, not just list the school, etc.

Tix to this year's Grey Cup in Ottawa will be made available to Argo STHs.

They are looking into getting a restaurant for post-game festivities as they used to do with Shoeless Joe's.

They would like to emulate the growth of supporter groups that TFC has had, but feel it needs to happen organically.

Re Rogers' disdain for the CFL: Copeland takes it as a challenge. He wants to force them to cover the team and be respectful by creating a winning team and a successful organization. Rather than bitch about it, prove them wrong.

There will be Argo merch at the Adidas flagship store at Queen and Yonge. But big retail chains will stock merch only if it can sell in sufficient quantities to justify the shelf space. The org needs to earn that space by developing into a team whose colours fans want to wear.

They thanked Argomania for her suggestion that a 10% discount on merch prices for STHs is not sufficient when shipping costs are factored in.


FOOTBALL STUFF

Re-signing Van Zeyl and Holmes was more important than pursuing FAs from other teams. VZ was described as "the best right tackle in the league, a cornerstone player." (There isn't much agreement in this forum for that sentiment, but for the record Popp seems to believe it.)

Copeland reiterated, with a bit more elaboration, what he said at the Popp/Trestman newser. He had to make sure Tanenbaum agreed with him that Popp was the best GM candidate, and doing so meant presenting LT with a wide range of candidates from the NFL.

Zimmerman did a great job in the interim period and is one of the best up-and-coming future GMs in the league.

2017 is not a strong draft year so they are not overly concerned with having no first-rounder. Added two new NAT starters last season in McEwen and Jones, so in good shape for young Canadians.

Popp likes Fajardo as at least the third-down QB. He noted CF is an athlete who can play on special teams as well. They will keep four QBs including at least one young one being developed. He noted that they have five guys with varying degrees of CFL experience but indicated he would like another QB. (I can't see six coming to camp, so if a kid is signed, IMO it's bye-bye to one of Kilgore, Matthews or Willy.)

[timlb01]

I am really disappointed that I could not make it but it sounds like everyone is rejuvenated about the management team which is fantastic to hear. I hope that we all can contribute to filling BMO consistently every game every year and bring back the Argo pride in Toronto like I remember when I was a kid. Thanks to everyone summarizing and giving me an idea of what I missed.

[Neely2005]

One other thing that was brough up was the possibility of selling merchandise at the Tailgates and Argonauts season ticket holders would be able to get a discount there since it's not possible to get a discount at BMO Field due to the lack of infrastructure that Paul mentioned.

[Argo57]

Thanks for the update guys, a lot of positives to build on!!
Communication with their fanbase does wonders sometimes, hopefully able to attend the next event.

[TOBenfica]

thanks Micheal...... it was a great event that helps personalize the organization and shows us fans that the argos are committed to become a success in this town...


It was great meeting those of you who attended last night. Thank you for taking the time to come in and share your feedback. If you were not able to attend I welcome your feedback so please fee free to email me anytime. You core fans are so very important to the Toronto Argonauts and we are going to continue to work hard to make this season great.

Thank you
Michael Hook
mhook@argonauts.ca

[ArgoZ]

Thanks for the summary Paul, some very nice things to hear. I'm surprised how many members attended, really wished I could have come after hearing that. Great move by the Argos for hosting such an event. Having positive vibes simply flowing through a fan forum is a great thing to see.

Even though it was a small event, don't you guys feel like your more part of something, that a connection is growing or stronger? This was exactly what I felt was missing last season.

Now that the Argos are engaging their fans again, does that mean ArgomANIA is coming back?

Once you have a template for your logo, any modern company like Adidas can reproduce or embroider it larger or smaller. There has been many more complicated logos, even in this city, than the current Argos logo. It may be more difficult for smaller companies (Mustang) without the modern computers and equipment.

[ArgofanIan]

Was really great to meet fellow ARGO fans who could attend.


I am very impressed with the ARGO management team... There is some real good people in place running the Argos at this time. Things are definitely headed in a positive direction.
.

Thanks again to everyone on the ARGOS for making this happen... Go ARRGOS !!!


ARGOFANIan

[Shatto]

Thank you Paul, for the excellent summary of information provided at the meeting. Unfortunately I had a prior engagement, so regretfully I had to miss the event.
One question I would liked to have posed, was in regards to the future recognition of the retired numbers of past Argo players. TFC has a Wall of Honour just outside the Argo dressing room area. Hopefully, a similar plan is in place for the Argos---was that question raised?

[jerrym]

Thanks for the update Paul. If the Argos accomplish 1/2's of their goals this year with regard to servicing the fans, that would be an enormous improvement.

[AngeloV]

Paul was on point with his ovearall summary.

Copeland also acknowledged that it is going to take time. I think it's important for all to understand this, and if things don't go the way we all hope this year in terms of a huge turnaround attendance wise, the doom and gloom attitude we saw for much of the last 6 months doesn't just reappear on here.

[Neely2005]

Thank you Paul, for the excellent summary of information provided at the meeting. Unfortunately I had a prior engagement, so regretfully I had to miss the event.
One question I would liked to have posed, was in regards to the future recognition of the retired numbers of past Argo players. TFC has a Wall of Honour just outside the Argo dressing room area. Hopefully, a similar plan is in place for the Argos---was that question raised?

No IIRC we only asked about the banners. You can send an Email to Michael Hook though, as per his post above they are looking for suggestions.

[Will]

Paul summarized the evening well.

[argofan81]

Thanks for the summary Paul. It sounds like a great time and I am happy that the team is making an effort to communicate with it's fans, something that was definitely lacking last year. I get the sense that there is now genuine hope and optimism for the future!

A quick question (& please don't take this as a complaint), when they were talking about not being able to have a card for concession/merchandise discounts, was this meant to imply that is the reason that the STH discount does not apply in stadium?

[Neely2005]

Thanks for the summary Paul. It sounds like a great time and I am happy that the team is making an effort to communicate with it's fans, something that was definitely lacking last year. I get the sense that there is now genuine hope and optimism for the future!

A quick question (& please don't take this as a complaint), when they were talking about not being able to have a card for concession/merchandise discounts, was this meant to imply that is the reason that the STH discount does not apply in stadium?

Yes. The stadium doesn't have the necessary infrastructure / technology to track and process season ticket discounts on merchandise. They are considering selling merchandise at the Tailgates and offering the season ticket holder discount there.

[Will]

Thanks for the summary Paul. It sounds like a great time and I am happy that the team is making an effort to communicate with it's fans, something that was definitely lacking last year. I get the sense that there is now genuine hope and optimism for the future!

A quick question (& please don't take this as a complaint), when they were talking about not being able to have a card for concession/merchandise discounts, was this meant to imply that is the reason that the STH discount does not apply in stadium?

That was one of the reasons, Moore mentioned something about control over the merchandise booths as being another reason, yes?

A few other items:

1. Vis-a-vis merchandising the Argos are kind of caught between a rock and a hard place right now. The industry is consolidating and a lot of the mom & pop jersey stores are getting put out of business and dealing with the larger corporate stores is more difficult. The gist I got was that until the Argos can rebuild their brand recognition in Toronto that it'll be difficult to get merchandise in these stores because the "buyers" for these stores will not go for something they feel will not sell. I think this makes Ania's point more pertinent actually as if we are going to have to go online for our Argos merchandise that the discount should reflect that.

2. I don't know if I am remembering this right, but did they imply that the previous management at BMO wasn't exactly cooperative? They seemed to suggest there was a new group there that seems to be a little more cooperative. Copeland also stressed that the relationship between Argos and Toronto FC is actually solid and that the problem is the "militancy" inherent in parts of their supporter groups.

[argofan81]

Yes. The stadium doesn't have the necessary infrastructure / technology to track and process season ticket discounts on merchandise. They are considering selling merchandise at the Tailgates and offering the season ticket holder discount there.

Interesting. I wonder how TFC does it since a discount off merchandise at BMO field is listed as one of their STH benefits?

[paulwoods13]

1. Vis-a-vis merchandising the Argos are kind of caught between a rock and a hard place right now. The industry is consolidating and a lot of the mom & pop jersey stores are getting put out of business and dealing with the larger corporate stores is more difficult. The gist I got was that until the Argos can rebuild their brand recognition in Toronto that it'll be difficult to get merchandise in these stores because the "buyers" for these stores will not go for something they feel will not sell. I think this makes Ania's point more pertinent actually as if we are going to have to go online for our Argos merchandise that the discount should reflect that.


What we heard was consistent with what I've assumed for years. Retailers are in the business of making money, not promoting external enterprises. All the complaints we've heard over the years about CFL merchandise not being in stores seemed to be based on the premise that the league was inept at marketing, and ignore the premise that the retailers didn't want that merchandise because they didn't expect to make money from it. The National Sports experience in 2006-07 demonstrated the point. They stocked a lot of CFL merch, including in this market name-plated jerseys for Ricky Williams, Michael Bishop, John Avery and Jason Maas. Within six to 12 months, they were blowing that stock out the door at huge discounts. I got Bishop and Avery jerseys for $20 and Ricky's (which was a nicer product very similar to what the team actually wore, with sewn-on name plate, correct font, etc.) for $50. National Sports would not have given that stuff away so cheaply if it had sold at the original prices.

[BATKINSON001]

Here is my summary of the mtg, .......) great post, thanks for taking the time to do it.

[ArgoGabe22]

Also, the training camp location is TBD. Popp has been touring locations and prefers it to be in the city as it is a pain to fly in players and have them transported back and forth to somewhere like Guelph, especially when the doctors are all based in Toronto. But accommodating the Argos may be a challenge. U of T cannot accommodate and are out of the discussion.

[argolio]

Also, the training camp location is TBD. Popp has been touring locations and prefers it to be in the city as it is a pain to fly in players and have them transported back and forth to somewhere like Guelph, especially when the doctors are all based in Toronto. But accommodating the Argos may be a challenge. U of T cannot accommodate and are out of the discussion.I really hope they can go back to York.

[PullTogether73]

It was awesome meeting everyone yesterday! Nice to put some faces to names. I thought it was a great event.
Good job on the Argos for reaching out to their core. Very informative.

Did I miss something here?

The last I knew, you were fed up with how the Argos were treating their loyal fans and STHs.
You had declared that you were jumping off the ship and joining the Tiger-cats as a fan and STH because they were much better with regard to the above.

Now, you are showing up at a function designed for the most loyal Argonauts fans and apparently find it a "great event".

???????:(

[Rich]

Copeland also acknowledged that it is going to take time. I think it's important for all to understand this, and if things don't go the way we all hope this year in terms of a huge turnaround attendance wise, the doom and gloom attitude we saw for much of the last 6 months doesn't just reappear on here.

Copeland said that while he didn't want to criticize previous ownership, the truth is that a lot of the negative sentiment towards the Argonauts is a direct result of the half-assed or non-existent marketing and promotion efforts of the previous regimes. It will take people a while to realize this franchise is only first class from here on out.

This senior management team faced an almost impossible situation last year with the late startup, very late entry to the brand new stadium, and the Grey Cup on top of all that. But I didn't realize how much league office experience both Copeland and Moore have, and on top of that they learned a ton from last year's trial by fire. I don't think we could find two more qualified people anywhere to turn this ship around. We should all be very excited about the future of the Argonauts.

By the way, it was good to meet you AngeloV. I'm sure many on this board would be surprised to learn you're a nice guy in real life. I better not tell anyone and spoil your mystique.

[ArgoGabe22]

Did I miss something here?

The last I knew, you were fed up with how the Argos were treating their loyal fans and STHs.
You had declared that you were jumping off the ship and joining the Tiger-cats as a fan and STH because they were much better with regard to the above.

Now, you are showing up at a function designed for the most loyal Argonauts fans and apparently find it a "great event".

???????:(

If you don't know Ania, then it's best to just let it be. She's still apart of the forum and is committed as anyone in providing important feedback back to the top. The organization needs to win a lot of fans back and this may be step 1 in doing so. It's good for them to know what they have done as org to turn a fan(s) away.

[Will]

If you don't know Ania, then it's best to just let it be. She's still apart of the forum and is committed as anyone in providing important feedback back to the top. The organization needs to win a lot of fans back and this may be step 1 in doing so. It's good for them to know what they have done as org to turn a fan(s) away.

Gabe couldn't say it any better. Best to let it be.

[argomANIA]

If you don't know Ania, then it's best to just let it be. She's still apart of the forum and is committed as anyone in providing important feedback back to the top. The organization needs to win a lot of fans back and this may be step 1 in doing so. It's good for them to know what they have done as org to turn a fan(s) away.


Gabe couldn't say it any better. Best to let it be.


Thank you both

[Jon Gonzo]

From someone who is out of town and could not attend; just wanted to say that this type of summery is much appreciated. Its just this kind of stuff that makes this site worth a daily visit. Thank you gang. Paul Wood's summery was especially thoughtful and well put together.

[Will]

Copeland said that while he didn't want to criticize previous ownership, the truth is that a lot of the negative sentiment towards the Argonauts is a direct result of the half-assed or non-existent marketing and promotion efforts of the previous regimes. It will take people a while to realize this franchise is only first class from here on out.

I think he also made a point of mentioning that some of the previous ownership groups simply did not have the resources needed to put together a proper marketing & promotional campaign.

[AngeloV]

By the way, it was good to meet you AngeloV. I'm sure many on this board would be surprised to learn you're a nice guy in real life. I better not tell anyone and spoil your mystique.

Thanks Rich. Same from my end. I was pleasantly surprised.

[Will]

Thanks Rich. Same from my end. I was pleasantly surprised.

I think you'll find that 99% of the people that you'll actually meet in person from a CFL message board are friendly people.

[Argo57]

Thank you both

Hang in there Ania, I personally never took your viewpoint as being disloyal at all.
Sometimes loyalty takes the form of letting your voice be heard and simply demanding better from your team, good on you.

[PullTogether73]

If you don't know Ania, then it's best to just let it be. She's still apart of the forum and is committed as anyone in providing important feedback back to the top. The organization needs to win a lot of fans back and this may be step 1 in doing so. It's good for them to know what they have done as org to turn a fan(s) away.


Gabe couldn't say it any better. Best to let it be.

Why "let it be"?
Because I haven't met someone personally? What has that got to do with anything in this?

When she declared in a new thread that she was fed up with the Argos new management AFTER ONE YEAR, I pointed out that the new management group had been in position FOR ONE YEAR and should be given more time to learn how to run the team before making making full judgement and switching allegiance to the Argos hated rival.

After making that judgement and move, returning at the first opportunity seems remarkably fickle.

I don't understand why a pass should be given. Are you an Argonauts fan or not?

[ArgoGabe22]

Why "let it be"?
Because I haven't met someone personally? What has that got to do with anything in this?

When she declared in a new thread that she was fed up with the Argos new management AFTER ONE YEAR, I pointed out that the new management group had been in position FOR ONE YEAR and should be given more time to learn how to run the team before making making full judgement and switching allegiance to the Argos hated rival.

After making that judgement and move, returning at the first opportunity seems remarkably fickle.

I don't understand why a pass should be given. Are you an Argonauts fan or not?


Well, anyone who has either met or known Ania doesn't seem to have a problem and understands her decision. And if not, they at least had the opportunity to meet with her and possibly discuss this her. I don't think she's trying to hide, I have meet her numerious times. At the end of the day, who cares? Why does it bother you so much? She is free to do whatever she wants as did Chad Owens, and other fans/players who join the dark side.

[AngeloV]

Why "let it be"?
Because I haven't met someone personally? What has that got to do with anything in this?

When she declared in a new thread that she was fed up with the Argos new management AFTER ONE YEAR, I pointed out that the new management group had been in position FOR ONE YEAR and should be given more time to learn how to run the team before making making full judgement and switching allegiance to the Argos hated rival.

After making that judgement and move, returning at the first opportunity seems remarkably fickle.

I don't understand why a pass should be given. Are you an Argonauts fan or not?

I'm not going to lie, I was disappointed when I found out Ania was going to be there. No secret that I was the most vocal of anyone concerning that thread. I said it and then and will reiterate that if she wanted to start that type of thread, do it on a Ti-Cats forum. It would have made their members happy. Posting it here only brought up negativity towards the team we are suppose to be behind, win or lose.

Having said all that, I like Ania as a person. I just didn't like what she did that one time.

[paulwoods13]

Non-Argo fans are allowed to belong to this forum. Everyone who belongs to this forum was invited to the event. She belongs to this forum. She accepted the invitation. End of story.

[Neely2005]

Non-Argo fans are allowed to belong to this forum. Everyone who belongs to this forum was invited to the event. She belongs to this forum. She accepted the invitation. End of story.

Exactly, and after a season in Hamilton I think that she'll be back.
:-)

[Wobbler]

When she declared in a new thread that she was fed up with the Argos new management AFTER ONE YEAR, I pointed out that the new management group had been in position FOR ONE YEAR and should be given more time to learn how to run the team before making making full judgement and switching allegiance to the Argos hated rival.
No one owes you any explanations, GreyDragon, and I really don't think it matters what you "pointed out" in an old thread.

[Will]

I'm not going to lie, I was disappointed when I found out Ania was going to be there. No secret that I was the most vocal of anyone concerning that thread. I said it and then and will reiterate that if she wanted to start that type of thread, do it on a Ti-Cats forum. It would have made their members happy. Posting it here only brought up negativity towards the team we are suppose to be behind, win or lose.

Having said all that, I like Ania as a person. I just didn't like what she did that one time.

I'm sure my friendship with Ania is well-known on here and I knew she was planning to attend, and I had no problem with this because I knew she was going to be respectful and come into it with an open mind.

We speak of giving this new management team more than 1 year. You can disagree with her all you want about her method of protest, but her presence at the meeting, her open mind going into that meeting and the willingness to admit that she was impressed by what she heard from Copeland proves to me that she is willing to give the Argos a chance to make this right.

[AngeloV]

I'm sure my friendship with Ania is well-known on here and I knew she was planning to attend, and I had no problem with this because I knew she was going to be respectful and come into it with an open mind.

We speak of giving this new management team more than 1 year. You can disagree with her all you want about her method of protest, but her presence at the meeting, her open mind going into that meeting and the willingness to admit that she was impressed by what she heard from Copeland proves to me that she is willing to give the Argos a chance to make this right.

And I respect your opinion. I was just stating how I truthfully felt.

[argolio]

Thanks Rich. Same from my end. I was pleasantly surprised.I think the universe is crumbling.

[PullTogether73]

No one owes you any explanations, GreyDragon, and I really don't think it matters what you "pointed out" in an old thread.

Interesting.
Ania seems to have a posse of members here who she has charmed into defending her, such that she doesn't have to defend herself.

I asked why she showed up at an Argonauts event when she declared on this forum that she was no longer interested in being a fan of the Argonauts due to the way she was being treated by management.
The answer seems to be, Ania is a nice person and if she wants to be disloyal to the Argonauts, that's okay, give her a pass because she is a nice person.

Got it. Reasonable questions are not tolerated on this forum.

Good luck to all going forward.

[Stevoman]

Thanks for the summary! Helps us west coast Argo fans out.

[argolio]

What the heck? I'm seeing "banned" under GreyDragon's name. Sure, nobody "owes" him an explanation, but he was hardly out of bounds asking for one or bringing up the issue.

Having met GreyDragon, he's a true Argo fan, and I feel obligated to stand up for him.

[AngeloV]

What the heck? I'm seeing "banned" under GreyDragon's name. Sure, nobody "owes" him an explanation, but he was hardly out of bounds asking for one or bringing up the issue.

Having met GreyDragon, he's a true Argo fan, and I feel obligated to stand up for him.

I've never met him, but truth be told, and I'm sure many will agree with this, I've said much worse on here.

[Wobbler]

For the record, I didn't ban him. But we have a low tolerance of members attacking one another and demanding proof of loyalty.

It's only a very short term ban, by the way.

[Will]

What the heck? I'm seeing "banned" under GreyDragon's name. Sure, nobody "owes" him an explanation, but he was hardly out of bounds asking for one or bringing up the issue.

Having met GreyDragon, he's a true Argo fan, and I feel obligated to stand up for him.

You have any issues, feel free to PM me.

[1971GreyCup]

For the record, I didn't ban him. But we have a low tolerance of members attacking one another and demanding proof of loyalty.

It's only a very short term ban, by the way.

Demanding "proof of loyalty"? Getting a little scary?

[Wobbler]

Demanding "proof of loyalty"? Getting a little scary?
Hmm? I think you misinterpreted my post.

[jerrym]

Perhaps I'm missing something, but if we end up not wanting people around who have lost interest in the team or said something negative about the team, that approach would eliminate a very large part of the Toronto population. I prefer to welcome everyone whether an old-timer, returnee, or new recruit.

[Argo57]

Perhaps I'm missing something, but if we end up not wanting people around who have lost interest in the team or said something negative about the team, that approach would eliminate a very large part of the Toronto population. I prefer to welcome everyone whether an old-timer, returnee, or new recruit.

If they banned everyone who has said negative things about the team then there would be no one left on this forum.
People posting with criticism of the Argonauts shows they still care enough to comment, bigger problem is when people stop caring altogether.

[paulwoods13]

Why does banning someone (which in this case I don't agree with) also result in their posts and replies to their posts being erased from threads? There may be a technical reason for it, but IMO it's stupid. It makes threads far less intelligible if some of the posts suddenly disappear.

[Neely2005]

Why does banning someone (which in this case I don't agree with) also result in their posts and replies to their posts being erased from threads? There may be a technical reason for it, but IMO it's stupid. It makes threads far less intelligible if some of the posts suddenly disappear.

I don't think it does because I've seen banned under some posters posts. I think that some posts must have been deleted.

[Harpastum]

Glad to see the meeting provided answers to a lot of our questions & concerns.
But I am confused about one item that came up...
Am I to understand there is a good likelihood there will be an increased STH discount on merchandise coming shortly?

[AngeloV]

Why does banning someone (which in this case I don't agree with) also result in their posts and replies to their posts being erased from threads? There may be a technical reason for it, but IMO it's stupid. It makes threads far less intelligible if some of the posts suddenly disappear.

Honestly, I don't see why some of these posts have been deleted. Nothing bad was said. Are we to assume that some members of this forum are being protected?

[AngeloV]

Honestly, I don't see why some of these posts have been deleted. Nothing bad was said. Are we to assume that some members of this forum are being protected?

After speaking to Will privately, though I don't agree with the banning and deletion of posts, I do respect his reasoning.

[Will]

I've restored the posts that were deleted, however please let us continue to discuss what was said at the meeting on Tuesday and not who attended the meeting and their motivations for doing so. If you have any problems with a mod decision use the private messaging feature.

[AngeloV]

I've restored the posts that were deleted, however please let us continue to discuss what was said at the meeting on Tuesday and not who attended the meeting and their motivations for doing so. If you have any problems with a mod decision use the private messaging feature.

Very fair.

[Will]

Glad to see the meeting provided answers to a lot of our questions & concerns.
But I am confused about one item that came up...
Am I to understand there is a good likelihood there will be an increased STH discount on merchandise coming shortly?

Possibly, the suggestion was put out there, but no indication as to whether the team will implement it.

[ArgoRavi]

This senior management team faced an almost impossible situation last year with the late startup, very late entry to the brand new stadium, and the Grey Cup on top of all that. But I didn't realize how much league office experience both Copeland and Moore have, and on top of that they learned a ton from last year's trial by fire. I don't think we could find two more qualified people anywhere to turn this ship around. We should all be very excited about the future of the Argonauts.

A lot of venom has been spewed at these two and I am glad that they were able to finally provide their own perspective to their critics. It never, ever made sense to me that they could go from highly-respected around the league to complete idiots in one year (the latter characterization was quite a popular one among many Argos fans over the past year). I am very glad that the calls for their firing were not heeded by Argonauts ownership.

[ArgoZ]

A lot of venom has been spewed at these two and I am glad that they were able to finally provide their own perspective to their critics. It never, ever made sense to me that they could go from highly-respected around the league to complete idiots in one year (the latter characterization was quite a popular one among many Argos fans over the past year). I am very glad that the calls for their firing were not heeded by Argonauts ownership.

Perspective? More like provided their own excuses. They seem to be saying all the right things and learning from their mistakes, however, it's the mistakes that many felt should not have happened in the first place. Considering the state the franchise was in a short while ago, the criticism was justified. We will never know how actually close they may have been to being fired (a very possible outcome), because I believe everyone was extremly lucky how the whole scenario played out. The timing and explanation of the events still do not add up or make sense. Popp and Trestman were never a sure thing. If it didn't play out as it did, I'm sure the venom would be still spewing.

[Argo57]

Perspective? More like provided their own excuses. They seem to be saying all the right things and learning from their mistakes, however, it's the mistakes that many felt should not have happened in the first place. Considering the state the franchise was in a short while ago, the criticism was justified. We will never know how actually close they may have been to being fired (a very possible outcome), because I believe everyone was extremly lucky how the whole scenario played out. The timing and explanation of the events still do not add up or make sense. Popp and Trestman were never a sure thing. If it didn't play out as it did, I'm sure the venom would be still spewing.

Agreed, the criticism towards the team was justified at the time, easy to sit back now and question how people could be so negative towards the team but so be it.

[paulwoods13]

I've restored the posts that were deleted, however please let us continue to discuss what was said at the meeting on Tuesday and not who attended the meeting and their motivations for doing so. If you have any problems with a mod decision use the private messaging feature.

Tnx for doing this.

[Neely2005]

Perspective? More like provided their own excuses. They seem to be saying all the right things and learning from their mistakes, however, it's the mistakes that many felt should not have happened in the first place. Considering the state the franchise was in a short while ago, the criticism was justified. We will never know how actually close they may have been to being fired (a very possible outcome), because I believe everyone was extremly lucky how the whole scenario played out. The timing and explanation of the events still do not add up or make sense. Popp and Trestman were never a sure thing. If it didn't play out as it did, I'm sure the venom would be still spewing.

The franchise wasn't exactly in a great state before they arrived.

[Jon Gonzo]

57 said it best. Passion is good. Fans had plenty of reason to be alarmed and they were, cos they cared about the franchise. This loyalty stuff is over the top. Maybe we should all get secret passwords and brand ourselves with a tattoo of a big plain "A"

[AngeloV]

Agreed, the criticism towards the team was justified at the time, easy to sit back now and question how people could be so negative towards the team but so be it.

I questioned it at the time. I guess I'm just more patient than some. I have often complained about the knee jerk reactions by people on here. Some on here get mad at me because of some of the personal insults I throw out at some members (btw, i never swear or make threats. I tend to throw around the word idiot a lot :D) How is that any worse then the ones thrown out at Copeland and Moore over the last few months?

[Argo57]

I questioned it at the time. I guess I'm just more patient than some. I have often complained about the knee jerk reactions by people on here. Some on here get mad at me because of some of the personal insults I throw out at some members (btw, i never swear or make threats. I tend to throw around the word idiot a lot :D) How is that any worse then the ones thrown out at Copeland and Moore over the last few months?

When you are in charge of the "New York Yankees" of the CFL you are open to criticism (it comes with the territory).
However as one of the more positive individuals on this forum I find the negativity over the top sometimes!😉

[BATKINSON001]

What was ania going on about that people are talking about here?

Pm me if you don't want it mentioned in this thread.

[R.J]

Interesting.
Ania seems to have a posse of members here who she has charmed into defending her, such that she doesn't have to defend herself.

I asked why she showed up at an Argonauts event when she declared on this forum that she was no longer interested in being a fan of the Argonauts due to the way she was being treated by management.
The answer seems to be, Ania is a nice person and if she wants to be disloyal to the Argonauts, that's okay, give her a pass because she is a nice person.

Got it. Reasonable questions are not tolerated on this forum.

Good luck to all going forward.
Sorry, but I'm with Grey Dragon on this.


Agreed, the criticism towards the team was justified at the time, easy to sit back now and question how people could be so negative towards the team but so be it.
Agreed. IMO aside from argoholic and Rocket, most knew it would take time (I myself have stated up to 10 years). In saying that, most also agreed that it was too soon for a Grey Cup, and Copeland and Moore mishandled quite a bit in their first season (which wasn't supposed to happen due to their CFL background).

I'm happy to hear that the ticket pricing structure will change, but there's still a ways to go.

[BATKINSON001]

I was informed that the next meeting which was to happen tonight was cancelled due to not enough people coming... the one for next Tuesday April 18th is still a go.

Hopefully there will be enough people at that one. I am looking forward to it.

[AngeloV]

I was informed that the next meeting which was to happen tonight was cancelled due to not enough people coming... the one for next Tuesday April 18th is still a go.

Hopefully there will be enough people at that one. I am looking forward to it.

What group was supposed to be there tonight? I sincerely hope it isn't FOA or Argos faithful. It would be a shame if either of those groups didn't show enough interest to go.

[Mightygoose]

Didn't even know a second (or third) meeting was scheduled

Can anyone from the team confirm?

[AngeloV]

Didn't even know a second (or third) meeting was scheduled

Can anyone from the team confirm?

They are reaching out to individual groups for these. The first one was with members of this forum. I'm guessing they also planned to do it with Friends of the Argonauts, Argolifers and Argos old faithful groups.

[BATKINSON001]

What group was supposed to be there tonight? I sincerely hope it isn't FOA or Argos faithful. It would be a shame if either of those groups didn't show enough interest to go. I don't know who was supposed to be there just that I was on the list to attend this one, and now the meeting for next week.

[AngeloV]

I don't know who was supposed to be there just that I was on the list to attend this one, and now the meeting for next week.

Well I hope next week's goes off well. I really enjoyed the first one.

[Will]

Didn't even know a second (or third) meeting was scheduled

Can anyone from the team confirm?

I figured that the team was going to reach out to other fan groups.

[BATKINSON001]

I havent seen any posts in the groups I am in.

[1971GreyCup]

I havent seen any posts in the groups I am in. This invite was extended to Season Tocket holders.

[BATKINSON001]

This invite was extended to Season Tocket holders. you are thinking of the town hall meeting that is scheduled for may.

[1971GreyCup]

you are thinking of the town hall meeting that is scheduled for may.

This was my invite "The Argos Open Mic Night you have been invited to attend is on April 12th 2017 6pm – 8pm."

[BATKINSON001]

This was my invite "The Argos Open Mic Night you have been invited to attend is on April 12th 2017 6pm – 8pm."Cool, so they have been sending invites.

[argofan81]

This invite was extended to Season Tocket holders.

If it has been, it must have been only to selected season ticket holders. I haven't received anything about an Open Mic night (which is disappointing as I missed out on the first one for this forum). I did get the town hall email but nothing about this.

[1971GreyCup]

I am sure it was a random selection of STHs.

[Neely2005]

Here is my summary of the mtg, covering many but by no means all of the points raised, in no particular order. It was attended by five Argo execs (Copeland, Moore, Popp, Dykstra and Hook) and about two dozen members of this forum.

BUSINESS STUFF

Copeland grew up as an Argo fan because of family connection. He shagged punts from the Big Zee, hung around with Symons and Gabler, and had an Argo flag (boat logo) on his bedroom wall as a kid.

The question of boat logo returning was raised. (Surprisingly it took until 1:51 into the meeting!) It won't become primary logo but will remain a secondary logo with new merchandise this year, designed and controlled by the Argos org, not the league. The shield remains the main logo on the uni (hooray!) but it is difficult to use in merch because very difficult to embroider. (Have to admit that had never occurred to me.) The new simplified A logo will also be a "campaign element" featured on merch. Mockups of new uses of these logos on merch were passed around, looked good.

The team got into BMO for the first time only about two wks before first game, and didn't get some details finalized (including big ones like goal post installation) until very close to that game. BMO mgmt. was not ready for what the Argos required. They thought Argos would have similar needs to TFC, but the needs are different. For instance BMO had only one replay machine attached to the video board (since soccer seldom needs replays). The Argos have purchased a second replay machine so we can get more replays this year.

Despite many improvements, BMO is not state of the art. No wifi yet and there is no way to give STHs a card that could be automated for merch and concession purchases.

TFC mgmt. is co-operative and helpful. TFC worked hard to ensure Argos got the schedule dates they needed this year.

There will be signage in BMO celebrating the Argos' Grey Cup championships. Mockups of new banners (similar to the old ones) were passed around.

There will be a new ticket price map in 2018, with fewer price points, less confusion and fewer instances where big price gaps are essentially side by side. Michael Hook, the new ticket mgr, seems committed to simplifying pricing.

Hypothetically, the team would rather have 25,000 fans at an average price of $50 than 16,000 fans at an average price of $90 -- the more fans in there, the better atmosphere and the more new fans can be won over.

There will be more brand ambassadors (around 20) in the building on game days. STHs will be catered to, with their own entrance and with brand ambassadors instructed to keep us happy and tend to our needs.

The org has grown recently from 14 staff to 35, so feels better equipped for the season. Last season was too much too soon; new building, Grey Cup etc., led to mistakes. Copeland accepted responsibility and promised they will have learned and will be better.

They are emphasizing group sales this season. Reaching out to minor and touch football orgs, among others.

To combat the "NFL is better" mentality of this marketplace, they plan to emphasize the accomplishments of players wherever they were before: NCAA, CIS, NFL. Show on the video board that so-and-so was a member of national championship team at Alabama or Laval, not just list the school, etc.

Tix to this year's Grey Cup in Ottawa will be made available to Argo STHs.

They are looking into getting a restaurant for post-game festivities as they used to do with Shoeless Joe's.

They would like to emulate the growth of supporter groups that TFC has had, but feel it needs to happen organically.

Re Rogers' disdain for the CFL: Copeland takes it as a challenge. He wants to force them to cover the team and be respectful by creating a winning team and a successful organization. Rather than bitch about it, prove them wrong.

There will be Argo merch at the Adidas flagship store at Queen and Yonge. But big retail chains will stock merch only if it can sell in sufficient quantities to justify the shelf space. The org needs to earn that space by developing into a team whose colours fans want to wear.

They thanked Argomania for her suggestion that a 10% discount on merch prices for STHs is not sufficient when shipping costs are factored in.


FOOTBALL STUFF

Re-signing Van Zeyl and Holmes was more important than pursuing FAs from other teams. VZ was described as "the best right tackle in the league, a cornerstone player." (There isn't much agreement in this forum for that sentiment, but for the record Popp seems to believe it.)

Copeland reiterated, with a bit more elaboration, what he said at the Popp/Trestman newser. He had to make sure Tanenbaum agreed with him that Popp was the best GM candidate, and doing so meant presenting LT with a wide range of candidates from the NFL.

Zimmerman did a great job in the interim period and is one of the best up-and-coming future GMs in the league.

2017 is not a strong draft year so they are not overly concerned with having no first-rounder. Added two new NAT starters last season in McEwen and Jones, so in good shape for young Canadians.

Popp likes Fajardo as at least the third-down QB. He noted CF is an athlete who can play on special teams as well. They will keep four QBs including at least one young one being developed. He noted that they have five guys with varying degrees of CFL experience but indicated he would like another QB. (I can't see six coming to camp, so if a kid is signed, IMO it's bye-bye to one of Kilgore, Matthews or Willy.)

Given that 2018 Season Tickets are on sale now I felt that it was relevant to revisit what we were told at the Open Mic night.

[ArgoGabe22]

Just because they listened and nodded, never meant it was going to happen.

[Neely2005]

Just because they listened and nodded, never meant it was going to happen.

It was more than that. They said that they were going to do certain things.

[ArgoGabe22]

It was more than that. They said that they were going to do certain things. Well, I never left thinking they'd absolutely do anything they mentioned. I thought they were more so going to look at certain things. I never got the impression it was all set in stone.

[Scooter McCray]

Michael Copeland wasn't at the meeting I attended. Sara Moore was there. She did not take any notes about anything that was said by the fans in attendance. She had nothing with which to make notes, ie - laptop, pad, pen.

It was all a dog and pony show to try and make us feel like we mattered. I guess she felt she nailed the Grey Cup in 2016.

[paulwoods13]

It was more than that. They said that they were going to do certain things.

This stuff was not listening -- this was talking:

There will be a new ticket price map in 2018, with fewer price points, less confusion and fewer instances where big price gaps are essentially side by side. Michael Hook, the new ticket mgr, seems committed to simplifying pricing.

Hypothetically, the team would rather have 25,000 fans at an average price of $50 than 16,000 fans at an average price of $90 -- the more fans in there, the better atmosphere and the more new fans can be won over.

[Neely2005]

Well, I never left thinking they'd absolutely do anything they mentioned. I thought they were more so going to look at certain things. I never got the impression it was all set in stone.

Then we certainly left with different impressions!

[BATKINSON001]

They can say one thing and do another or do nothing at all, the seating chart for when I look at the prices hasn't changed. I was expecting to see the new price points, if they want me to renew my seasons they need to be more affordable.

[Neely2005]

This stuff was not listening -- this was talking:

There will be a new ticket price map in 2018, with fewer price points, less confusion and fewer instances where big price gaps are essentially side by side. Michael Hook, the new ticket mgr, seems committed to simplifying pricing.

Hypothetically, the team would rather have 25,000 fans at an average price of $50 than 16,000 fans at an average price of $90 -- the more fans in there, the better atmosphere and the more new fans can be won over.

Exactly. This is what they told us.