Marcus Ball Released by 49ers

[1971GreyCup]

I think he last played his last season here in the 2012 Grey Cup. He went out on top.

[AngeloV]

Actually, that was his first season. Also played 2013.

[jerrym]

At only 29, and considering his record with the Argos in 2012-13, I would love to have him back, especially considering the defensive sieve backfield we had last year.



In two seasons with Toronto, Ball had 142 tackles, 7 sacks, 3 fumble recoveries, and 4 interceptions (with 2 touchdown returns)


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Ball

[AngeloV]

At only 29, and considering his record with the Argos in 2012-13, I would love to have him back, especially considering the defensive sieve backfield we had last year.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Ball

I don't see it happening. He plays the same spot as Winston Venable. Not a good fit for the Argos right now. If he comes back to the CFL, I would bet on him wearing green.

["Issues"Mcgee]

I thought he was great when he was with the Argos. The last I had heard of him was during that whole baseball bat incident which was extremely bizarre.

[Jon Gonzo]

I don't see it happening. He plays the same spot as Winston Venable. Not a good fit for the Argos right now. If he comes back to the CFL, I would bet on him wearing green.

Venable can play both WIL and SAM. One of the reasons the Argos pegged him as a priority in FAgency.

[paulwoods13]

It would be a nice problem to have.

[1971GreyCup]

It look like he has played in 18 games over the last three seasons. Practise roster salaries are $6,900 USD per week. On the 53 man roster its sizeably more at $450,000 USD minimum. In his three seasons in the NFL, he has played 5 games (Saints 2014), 1 game (Panthers 2015) and 15 games (49ers 2016). It looks like as a rule, in the NFL practise roster players, they pro-rate your minimum salary as a fraction of the minimum NFL, plus pay you the practise roster pay for the balance with a guaranteed 3 weeks ($79,000 USD). Teams can pay more, and the Patriots do.

Last year was a good year, when Marcus made at least $429,000 USD for 15 games or the 49ers. In 2014, the Saints paid Marcus at least $210,000 USD. In between, for the game he played for the Panthers, he was likely paid $169,000 USD.

If he returned to the CFL in good form, if he could earn money similar to his first two years in the NFL.

[AngeloV]

It would be a nice problem to have.

It's also 4 years later. No guarantee he would be the same player, and if there is a bidding war for him with Chris Jones, who he excelled under, I would pass.

[doubleblue]

It's also 4 years later. No guarantee he would be the same player, and if there is a bidding war for him with Chris Jones, who he excelled under, I would pass.

I would think they will pass on Ball unless he comes in at a reasonable price under the cap. Most come back from the NFL heavier and slower but there has been a few players who come back and play well for several years. Maybe it depends on how much they love the game, stay humble and work on their conditioning etc. Unfortunately they seem to be in the minority.

[ArgoRavi]

It's also 4 years later. No guarantee he would be the same player, and if there is a bidding war for him with Chris Jones, who he excelled under, I would pass.

I agree, AV. Ball at 29 and four years removed from the CFL may not be the same player he was when he left.

[1971GreyCup]

Curious comment by Marcus Ball on Instagram. He was cut by the 49ers for something he had no control over. Perhaps SF cut him to make room for their 2017 7th round pick?

Supportive comments from his 2012/13 teammates.

[Jon Gonzo]

I agree, AV. Ball at 29 and four years removed from the CFL may not be the same player he was when he left.

While I don't remember a whole lot of players who have gone lengthy stints here, there and back again with resounding successes (CFL-NFL-CFL).....I'd be more than happy to let this decision be made on the field. That's what Training Camp is for. Not like this team couldn't use a hard nosed LB like Marcus Ball. A gamer is a gamer is a gamer, and having a 29 year old drop 10 pounds isn't exactly the biggest challenge one may face in a career full of them.

[AngeloV]

While I don't remember a whole lot of players who have gone lengthy stints here, there and back again with resounding successes (CFL-NFL-CFL).....I'd be more than happy to let this decision be made on the field. That's what Training Camp is for. Not like this team couldn't use a hard nosed LB like Marcus Ball. A gamer is a gamer is a gamer, and having a 29 year old drop 10 pounds isn't exactly the biggest challenge one may face in a career full of them.

You also have to consider he was playing safety the last 4 years and not LB.

[gilthethrill]

It's also 4 years later. No guarantee he would be the same player, and if there is a bidding war for him with Chris Jones, who he excelled under, I would pass.

I hate to do this, but I have to agree with you in this topic of conversation AV.

[AngeloV]

I hate to do this, but I have to agree with you in this topic of conversation AV.

If he was only down there for a year, I would say go for him. But usually players that leave for an extended period of time come back and just aren't the same.

[gilthethrill]

If he was only down there for a year, I would say go for him. But usually players that leave for an extended period of time come back and just aren't the same.

That is true more often than not.

[paulwoods13]

All true, but if he could be signed for a reasonable amount (unlikely, IMO, given the salary he has become used to), there is no downside to bringing him in and seeing if he still has it. If not, he gets cut.

[jerrym]

All true, but if he could be signed for a reasonable amount (unlikely, IMO, given the salary he has become used to), there is no downside to bringing him in and seeing if he still has it. If not, he gets cut.

While I would love to have him back, I agree there is a good chance he will sign elsewhere, but like you say if we can get him within budget constraints, then I see little to lose (other than possibly a signing bonus) in bringing him to TC to see if he still has it.

[1971GreyCup]

It's pretty hard to find a downside of landing a popular player with CFL experience. He has 15 games experience playing at the highest level in 2016. Most of the previous three years he earned $6,900 per week. He'd likely make more in Canada. He was considered a very good teammate and at past Argofan Corn Roasts, came across humble and approachable. He has a young family and am pretty sure he'd like a few more earning years before retirement.

[Argo]

It's pretty hard to find a downside of landing a popular player with CFL experience. He has 15 games experience playing at the highest level in 2016. Most of the previous three years he earned $6,900 per week. He'd likely make more in Canada. He was considered a very good teammate and at past Argofan Corn Roasts, came across humble and approachable. He has a young family and am pretty sure he'd like a few more earning years before retirement.

Trestman / Popp may look good to MB, and if his expectations are reasonable he may like the thought of trying to resume his career here (and if he signs and works out, great, if not c'est la vie).

[1971GreyCup]

I'm not sure signing Marcus Ball to a "fat" contract would be a horrible thing. 60,000 people in Toronto watched him play a heck of a Grey Cup game in 2012 and he played much of last year for the 49ers. JB would always play the player who was one step faster, but does that bring in butts in the seats. Popp understands media exposure all the way back to the Stallions who were a very successful CFL franchise. How tough would that job have been in Baltimore?

Blow up the salary cap in year one and get back to relevance here. Is that a crazy idea?

[Mulder]

I'm not sure signing Marcus Ball to a "fat" contract would be a horrible thing. 60,000 people in Toronto watched him play a heck of a Grey Cup game in 2012 and he played much of last year for the 49ers. JB would always play the player who was one step faster, but does that bring in butts in the seats. Popp understands media exposure all the way back to the Stallions who were a very successful CFL franchise. How tough would that job have been in Baltimore?

Blow up the salary cap in year one and get back to relevance here. Is that a crazy idea?

Only 7,000 off on that one. Besides, the 100th Grey Cup and sold out in June, before Marcus Ball played his first regular season game in the CFL. I'm sure purely his signing lead to the completely sold out 100th Grey Cup, right?

[1971GreyCup]

Only 7,000 off on that one. Besides, the 100th Grey Cup and sold out in June, before Marcus Ball played his first regular season game in the CFL. I'm sure purely his signing lead to the completely sold out 100th Grey Cup, right?

Very constructive input. Thanks!

What's that saying, if you're not part of the solution.....?

This is another example how special the Argos fans are.

[Mulder]

Very constructive input. Thanks!

What's that saying, if you're not part of the solution.....?

This is another example how special the Argos fans are.

Dumb comment deserves a sarcastic response. At least mine was factual.

Hopefully you included yourself in that "special Argo Fans" group.

[1971GreyCup]

Dumb comment deserves a sarcastic response. At least mine was factual.

Hopefully you included yourself in that "special Argo Fans" group.

Absolutely, let's squash all "out of the box" ideas. Make sure everyone who provides input is put in their place. Let's stick to the status quo. Next year we'll look back fondly at the time we still had 3,500 STHs.

Whoever said "there are no stupid questions", what were they thinking?

[Will]

Are the 52,000 who attended the 100th really remembering Marcus Ball's performance or are they remembering Ricky Foley and Chad Kackert. The casual is likely remembering the latter players.

[1971GreyCup]

Maybe.

Ironically, both players above recently released. One for bonus purposes and one I had to dig to find out he was no longer on the roster. Ricky a local player and very popular out here in the East.

I'm not saying they shouldn't be released, but they were contributors on a big stage in front of 52,000 football ticket buyers.

[Mulder]

Absolutely, let's squash all "out of the box" ideas. Make sure everyone who provides input is put in their place. Let's stick to the status quo. Next year we'll look back fondly at the time we still had 3,500 STHs.

Whoever said "there are no stupid questions", what were they thinking?

You are advocating blowing up the team for 1 player who
a) Hasn't played in the CFL in a few years, who knows what impact he'd have.
b) Ball has been active in exactly 6 NFL games in the last two seasons
c) Would be a marginal marketable player at best. Certainly not drawing "60,000". Nor did he draw 60,000 to the 100th Grey Cup (Which you have also claimed).

The Argonauts have other areas of need, namely offense.

As for your "no stupid questions" comment, you phrased your original post on the topic as a statement.
Regardless, there is stupid ideas and "Blowing up the Salary Cap for a American Linebacker" certainly is one of them.
Bring him in and see if he can make an impact? Sure.
Thinking he is going to sell tickets? No. It won't move the needle in Toronto, it barely would anywhere else in the CFL.

[Will]

The troubles the Argos have are far greater than what one individual player will ultimately solve. Recall that this is the team that added Doug Flutie in 1996, went 30-6 in two seasons, kicked the shit of most teams and still couldn't draw above 20,000.

[paulwoods13]

IMO the problem with the notion of "blowing up the salary cap" for one year is that it represents yet another attempt at a quick fix. This team's history is full of quick fixes, from Anthony Davis to Terry Metcalf to Rocket Ismail to Tracy Ham to Kent Austin to Doug Flutie to Ricky Williams. Did any of them produce sustainable, long-term growth of the business and fanbase? What's needed here is a team that competes and is entertaining every year, not a team that flares up in popularity from time to time (e.g. 1991 and 2012) only to fall off the radar right after.

If we were going to blow up the salary cap, it would have to be for a guy or guys who would definitely sell a lot of tickets. Loved Marcus Ball when he played here, but he isn't even on the radar of hard-core NFL fans in this market.

[Jon Gonzo]

No one will be blowing up any salary cap for one Marcus Ball. I would love to have him, but he won't be getting huge bucks and he'd still have to make the team. Bring it on. He's a baller. Van Roten, Greg Jones, same deal. The more better ball players around, the better it is for all.

[Will]

No one will be blowing up any salary cap for one Marcus Ball. I would love to have him, but he won't be getting huge bucks and he'd still have to make the team. Bring it on. He's a baller. Van Roten, Greg Jones, same deal. The more better ball players around, the better it is for all.

I'd rather have Van Roten over Ball. Van Roten is versatile and I still have concerns with our offensive line.

[AngeloV]

Blowing up the salary cap is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. A team that goes over the salary cap one year has that much less to play with the following. Furthermore, all contracts need to get certified by the league before a team can actually use a player. This will not happen. But that's ok 71. Keep on ragging on the team.

[1971GreyCup]

Marcus Ball was an example folks. Writing a big cheque to Doug Flutie or Rocket Ismail didn't hurt the Argos. I'd rather that, than spending my time doing research trying to find tidbits on the Argos. Their media coverage has gone to pretty near zero. Saving money on salaries isn't very newsworthy.

TFC is spending $10 million a year on Giovonni. Putting in seats doesn't seem to be a problem in the City of Toronto for that marginal sports franchise..

[argolio]

Marcus Ball was an example folks. Writing a big cheque to Doug Flutie or Rocket Ismail didn't hurt the Argos. I'd rather that, than spending my time doing research trying to find tidbits on the Argos. Their media coverage has gone to pretty near zero. Saving money on salaries isn't very newsworthy.

TFC is spending $10 million a year on Giovonni. Putting in seats doesn't seem to be a problem in the City of Toronto for that marginal sports franchise..As I understand it, CFL teams aren't allowed to have "marquee players" anymore. Every player must fit under the cap. Even if it was allowed, I can't imagine a team doing it for someone other than a skill-position player.

Frankly, I don't see how the MLS can sustain their policy of three marquee players per team. Their TV contract is minimal and their ratings are poor. Unless the league has a really rich guy(s) funding it all, it sounds like a Ponzi scheme.

[ArgoGabe22]

As I understand it, CFL teams aren't allowed to have "marquee players" anymore. Every player must fit under the cap. Even if it was allowed, I can't imagine a team doing it for someone other than a skill-position player.

Frankly, I don't see how the MLS can sustain their policy of three marquee players per team. Their TV contract is minimal and their ratings are poor. Unless the league has a really rich guy(s) funding it all, it sounds like a Ponzi scheme.

Last I read, TFC isn't even making any money. But they do have rich owners.


Toronto FC is still losing $9 million a year, according to Forbes’ operating income estimates for 2015.

President Manning wouldn’t speak to that number specifically, but did acknowledge the club made some large investments in players — strikers Sebastian Giovinco and Jozy Altidore and midfielder Michael Bradley are three of the highest paid athletes in the league — and BMO Field recently.

“I believe that all those investments are actually going to pay off as our business and revenues are growing,” he said. “That’s how the organization is looking at it.”

[1971GreyCup]

Last I read, TFC isn't making any money.

Neither is Amazon for that matter.

[Wobbler]

Haven't we already acquired a high profile player this year? I suspect that more people have heard of SJ Green than Marcus Ball. And if bringing back a previous hero is worth anything to marketing, we already did that too, with Cleyon Laing.

[argolio]

Neither is Amazon for that matter.Amazon just turned a profit for the eighth straight quarter
https://www.recode.net/2017/4/27/15451726/amazon-q1-2017-earnings-profits-net-income-cash-flow-chart

[1971GreyCup]

Amazon just turned a profit for the eighth straight quarter
https://www.recode.net/2017/4/27/15451726/amazon-q1-2017-earnings-profits-net-income-cash-flow-chart

I do stand corrected. Just goes to show how up-to-date I am on the FANG stocks. And AMZN hit $963 in my absence too.

[paulwoods13]

Marcus Ball was an example folks. Writing a big cheque to Doug Flutie or Rocket Ismail didn't hurt the Argos. I'd rather that, than spending my time doing research trying to find tidbits on the Argos. Their media coverage has gone to pretty near zero. Saving money on salaries isn't very newsworthy.

TFC is spending $10 million a year on Giovonni. Putting in seats doesn't seem to be a problem in the City of Toronto for that marginal sports franchise..

Writing a big cheque to Doug Flutie didn't help the Argos anywhere except on the field. Their attendance those two years, with arguably the greatest player and greatest team in CFL history, was in the 17,000-18,000 range. Five years later they were on the brink of bankruptcy.

Writing a big cheque to Rocket Ismail helped for one year, then all the value faded away.

Quick fixes don't work and are not needed.

[1971GreyCup]

Blowing up the salary cap is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. A team that goes over the salary cap one year has that much less to play with the following. Furthermore, all contracts need to get certified by the league before a team can actually use a player. This will not happen. But that's ok 71. Keep on ragging on the team.

Nope, you're wrong there. I'm pretty sure you've heard worse ideas from me.

By the way AngeloV, have you ever offered a constructive idea for a solution to the obvious problems. Or do you just fiddle while Rome burns? There's more than a few in this forum who are quick to point out the shortcomings of solutions offered, by strangely offer nothing. All is "Tickety Boo" with the organization past, present and future, right?

Make sure you don't stick your head out. Someone might know what you're really thinking.

[1971GreyCup]

And why not start a new thread " All is fine with the model franchise - no input or suggestions are welcome!"

[paulwoods13]

Or we could stop lodging personal attacks on those we don't agree with.

[Shipyard]

Writing a big cheque to Doug Flutie didn't help the Argos anywhere except on the field. Their attendance those two years, with arguably the greatest player and greatest team in CFL history, was in the 17,000-18,000 range. Five years later they were on the brink of bankruptcy.

Writing a big cheque to Rocket Ismail helped for one year, then all the value faded away.

Quick fixes don't work and are not needed.


only work if they keep signing the #1 pick in NFL draft to 1 year deal. Then sign the next #1 pick to 1 year deal, and so on and so on.

[Wobbler]

It's true that the board can sometimes be dismissive of unconventional ideas... but this one deserves to be dismissed, IMO.

[Argo57]

I suspect Marcus Ball would not be the same player he was during his first tenure in Toronto.
Worth a look perhaps but only at the right price$$.

[Jon Gonzo]

I am not sure how signing a former All Star CFL Linebacker (who went South for a few years) constitutes as unconventional to be honest? He's still under 30. And how on Gods green earth is he anywhere near the likes of a Rocket or a Flutie in terms of a signing? There would be no blowing up the salary cap on Marcus Ball. Puzzling thread, especially considering that TC is the time to gather 75 of the best players you can possibly get your hands on. The salary cap is not even an issue until the roster is declared, and then you play money ball.

Why wouldn't you want him here? Are you paying him yourself or something? Weird to me. You just cut him if he can't make it.

Speaking of money ball, considering the Argo's ditched all their national LB's and don't have a MLB of reputation, they should add some money here. Also, one of the most expensive positions on the team, Left Tackle, is costing them minimally at this point.

There would be nothing to loose in a signing of this magnitude.

[Wobbler]

Have another look at this post (http://www.argofans.com/showthread.php?4881-Marcus-Ball-Released-by-49ers&p=109906&viewfull=1#post109906), Jon. We'd all like to have MB in camp, but...

[Jon Gonzo]

Have another look at this post (http://www.argofans.com/showthread.php?4881-Marcus-Ball-Released-by-49ers&p=109906&viewfull=1#post109906), Jon. We'd all like to have MB in camp, but...

Yes, I agree he wouldn't be getting big money at this stage. Maybe he's even thinking about hanging them up at this stage?

[AngeloV]

Nope, you're wrong there. I'm pretty sure you've heard worse ideas from me.

By the way AngeloV, have you ever offered a constructive idea for a solution to the obvious problems. Or do you just fiddle while Rome burns? There's more than a few in this forum who are quick to point out the shortcomings of solutions offered, by strangely offer nothing. All is "Tickety Boo" with the organization past, present and future, right?

Make sure you don't stick your head out. Someone might know what you're really thinking.

Well maybe you can shed your wisdom at the town hall. You go on a website called ARGOFANS and do nothing but slag the team. What if a new fan came on here and read all the crap that you post, and was influenced into thinking this team isn't worth supporting from what they've been reading. How is that helping the team that you claim to love? The more I see this, the more I understand why Lori Bursey pulled the forum off of the FOA website.

[Jon Gonzo]

Well maybe you can shed your wisdom at the town hall. You go on a website called ARGOFANS and do nothing but slag the team. What if a new fan came on here and read all the crap that you post, and was influenced into thinking this team isn't worth supporting from what they've been reading. How is that helping the team that you claim to love? The more I see this, the more I understand why Lori Bursey pulled the forum off of the FOA website.

Lori Bursey has a different mandate with the "Friends of the Argos," as is her right. This is open, frank talk from Argonaut fans; or at least I thought it was? This is the stuff my dad and I discuss every phone call -- all year long (; If this site is not about open, free discussion about this Football Team, please let me know, cos then I'll run along.

Otherwise the FOA may have a website that is better sited to one or two people here who seem to suffer from peptic agita every-time someone has the gall to ask for a little more. I mean we are talking about a team that has won only 23 times in 3 seasons (with two Playoff misses) are we not?

I would think that a fan board would reflect and should reflect that, unless of course you desire the FOA's route? Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[1971GreyCup]

Well, well, well. This season is turning out to be very interesting! Marcus Ball was very popular with fans during his time. I look forward to see what he looks like on Sunday. Shrewd move by Jim Popp.

Add to the reversal of live radio broadcasts today, lots to get excited about for Argos fans.

[Jon Gonzo]

I call this great news. Not to be unconventional, or dismissive but I sure hope we didn't 'blow up the salary cap.' Hey, if he has 'NFL-itis' its not like he can't be cut. This may well be one of the most important of the off season. This thread should be pinned as an example of who starts what; how they start it, and why it gets continued. If nothing is learned, then I don't care what team they are a fan of.

[AngeloV]

Call me very surprised about this. I sure hope he proves me wrong and comes in to be the same player he was in 2012-13.

Does this move Rico Murray into the secondary if it works out?

[paulwoods13]

Seems to me that Rico Murray should be able to play HB. Just a hunch - I think Johnny Sears might be in tough to stick.

[AngeloV]

Seems to me that Rico Murray should be able to play HB. Just a hunch - I think Johnny Sears might be in tough to stick.

Sears is listed as the DB and Murray as the LB. If Murray can move to HB, it's quite possible that they can both start at half in the secondary. Question is, which one would play the tougher spot of boundary HB.

[Neely2005]

Well maybe you can shed your wisdom at the town hall. You go on a website called ARGOFANS and do nothing but slag the team. What if a new fan came on here and read all the crap that you post, and was influenced into thinking this team isn't worth supporting from what they've been reading. How is that helping the team that you claim to love? The more I see this, the more I understand why Lori Bursey pulled the forum off of the FOA website.

I have some honest questions for you since I've never understood this leaf fan type of mentality.

Do you think that fans should never question the team that they cheer for?

Are we only to praise everything that the team does?

We finished dead last, last season and traded away the first overall pick. If we can't be critical of the team after a season like that when would it be acceptable to be critical?

[AngeloV]

I have some honest questions for you since I've never understood this leaf fan type of mentality.

Do you think that fans should never question the team that they cheer for?

Are we only to praise everything that the team does?

We finished dead last, last season and traded away the first overall pick. If we can't be critical of the team after a season like that when would it be acceptable to be critical?

Explained my feelings a while ago, and have not been involved in any mud slinging on here since before the town hall, but if you need me to refresh your memory, I posted on this site a couple of weeks ago that I have no issue with constructive criticism, but IMO it was WAY OVER THE TOP, and WAY TOO EARLY to determine the fate of the team. It was February. Lots can happen, and has happened between then and the start of the season. Just like in the same way, you don't see me declaring the team the early favourites to go to the Grey Cup based on some news perceived as positive around here.

Comments like "I think maybe I'll just go to all the road games and not the home games" Annoyed the F out of me. That's the comments from a fan? Support the bottom line of the rest of the league, but not the team you supposedly cheer?

I realize that was a sarcastic comment, but I'm just using it as an example.

Anyway, that's all I will say about this subject going forward. I've decided to stop being so confrontational around here. I'm just going continue to support my team, win or lose. No reason to change that philosophy now. Never been one to jump on or off a bandwagon.

[Will]

Angelo's said his piece so let's move on.

[Will]

Thread is redundant since Ball has since signed with Argos.