Montreal Alouettes @ Toronto Argonauts: Pre-Season Game Thread

[Will]

June 8, 2017 at BMO Field at 7:30 PM

It was tweeted by Herb Zurkowsky that Darian Durant will not play for Montreal on Thursday.

No news on Argo lineup, etc., as of yet.

[Stevoman]

I'm most curious to see how Wilder Jr. plays. Based on size, he could be dominant runner similar to Robert Drummond.

[jerrym]

I'm most curious to see how Wilder Jr. plays. Based on size, he could be dominant runner similar to Robert Drummond.

That's who James Wilder reminded me of when I watched his highlights video.

[Will]

I'm most curious to see how Wilder Jr. plays. Based on size, he could be dominant runner similar to Robert Drummond.

I am too. My hope/thinking is a 1-2 combo of Whitaker and Wilder. Both are different physical specimens and can compliment each other nicely.

[dsiemier]

Does anyone know if they will have a tailgate at the Shipyard for the pre-season game?

[Jon Gonzo]

I am too. My hope/thinking is a 1-2 combo of Whitaker and Wilder. Both are different physical specimens and can compliment each other nicely.

It has been 20 years and we Argo fans are still missing the 2-Back Set that adorned us with the brute force of one Robert Drummond; coupled with the sublime skills of the irrepressible Mike Pinball Clemons. I love the idea. Unfortunately, CFL Coaches don't run those Offensive sets much anymore, if at all. If you have good CanCon and you have a FB that can block like a FB, run like an RB and catch like a receiver, I say why not?

The Professor seems to have his set. But he's also smart, and may adapt his concepts to the talents he has. Is this guy good enough to even consider that?

We shall see. Early yet. He looks like a football player. But looks aren't everything.

[Will]

I don't think the Argos will be going to a 2-back set. I was merely suggesting Whitaker and Wilder as the two running backs who I'd like to make the roster.

Your point about Whitaker and Clemons is well taken though.

[Antwon]

I'm most curious to see how Wilder Jr. plays. Based on size, he could be dominant runner similar to Robert Drummond.

Same here! I hope he plays well and makes the team. If they give him enough carries during the game, he could produce big in the forth quarter with his size wearing down defenses!

[Neely2005]

Does anyone know if they will have a tailgate at the Shipyard for the pre-season game?

The Tailgates & Shipyards are being combined into 1 event @ the Ontario Place parking lot this season. There will be a smaller one for the preseason game.

Tailgating

Tailgating is BACK! This season we will be tailgating at the Ontario Place Lot 2 where we will once again be serving $4 ice cold beers. Thursday’s tailgate opens at 4:30pm. You will need to purchase a tailgate pass to enter the lot with your car. Fans who are walking in will need to have a game ticket.

[ArgoRavi]

It has been 20 years and we Argo fans are still missing the 2-Back Set that adorned us with the brute force of one Robert Drummond; coupled with the sublime skills of the irrepressible Mike Pinball Clemons. I love the idea. Unfortunately, CFL Coaches don't run those Offensive sets much anymore, if at all. If you have good CanCon and you have a FB that can block like a FB, run like an RB and catch like a receiver, I say why not?

The Professor seems to have his set. But he's also smart, and may adapt his concepts to the talents he has. Is this guy good enough to even consider that?

We shall see. Early yet. He looks like a football player. But looks aren't everything.

From what I recall, the Argos didn't go with a two-back set when Drummond was with the team. Pinball moved to the slotback position at that point and Drummond was the sole running back.

You would likely have to go back to 1993 when the late Warren Hudson returned to the team at fullback and 1994-95 when Duane Forde was employed as an Argo for the last time that they really went with a two back set on a regular basis. They did it a bit in 1998 when they brought Tony Burse in.

[timlb01]

From what I recall, the Argos didn't go with a two-back set when Drummond was with the team. Pinball moved to the slotback position at that point and Drummond was the sole running back.

You would likely have to go back to 1993 when the late Warren Hudson returned to the team at fullback and 1994-95 when Duane Forde was employed as an Argo for the last time that they really went with a two back set on a regular basis. They did it a bit in 1998 when they brought Tony Burse in.

As I recall that is accurate but we have had a two back rotation at other times. I cannot see Whitaker becoming a regular at slot back like Don Mathews did with Pinball.

[ArgoGabe22]

<iframe id="twitter-widget-0" scrolling="no" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" class="twitter-tweet twitter-tweet-rendered" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: block; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: medium none;" frameborder="0"></iframe><iframe id="twitter-widget-0" scrolling="no" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" class="twitter-tweet twitter-tweet-rendered" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: block; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: medium none;" frameborder="0"></iframe><blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Argonauts?src=hash">#Argonauts</a> preseason week 1 depth chart. Edwards/Posey at boundary WR, Fuller at field WR. Some key players to watch. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFLFantasy?src=hash">#CFLFantasy</a> <a href="https://t.co/N06HmP9SsV">pic.twitter.com/N06HmP9SsV</a></p>&mdash; Onside CFL Fantasy (@CFLFantasyFTB) <a href="https://twitter.com/CFLFantasyFTB/status/872522187650908160">June 7, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script><iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: medium none;" frameborder="0"></iframe><iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: medium none;" frameborder="0"></iframe><iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: medium none;" frameborder="0"></iframe>

[gilthethrill]

Will TSN radio in Montreal broadcast the game? I would hate to miss it.

[Wobbler]

It would be foolish to read too much into positioning in pre-season game #1, but it *looks* like we're using Mason Woods at guard. Has that been the case in camp so far?

Also, it does look like the Will LB spot may be more of a hybrid DB/WLB position this year as Shatto reported; Vaughn, Rose, and Neal seem more like DBs who can play OLB than OLBs who can play DB.

[AngeloV]

It has been 20 years and we Argo fans are still missing the 2-Back Set that adorned us with the brute force of one Robert Drummond; coupled with the sublime skills of the irrepressible Mike Pinball Clemons. I love the idea. Unfortunately, CFL Coaches don't run those Offensive sets much anymore, if at all. If you have good CanCon and you have a FB that can block like a FB, run like an RB and catch like a receiver, I say why not?

The Professor seems to have his set. But he's also smart, and may adapt his concepts to the talents he has. Is this guy good enough to even consider that?

We shall see. Early yet. He looks like a football player. But looks aren't everything.

I wouldn't have called that a 2 back said. Pinball was essentially a slotback, the position which Durie and now Coombs play. Rarely if ever did you see both in the backfield at the same time. When Pinner was lined up at RB, they would flank Drummond out wide. The last Argo real 2 back system was likely Gil Fenerty with Warren Hudson and briefly John Avery with Sean Millington. (I have chosen to ignore anything that happened when John Huard was coach)

Edit: I guess when Obie returned in '93 and '94 they used one with Duane Ford and either Pinner or Mo Dean.

[ArgoRavi]

I wouldn't have called that a 2 back said. Pinball was essentially a slotback, the position which Durie and now Coombs play. Rarely if ever did you see both in the backfield at the same time. When Pinner was lined up at RB, they would flank Drummond out wide. The last Argo real 2 back system was likely Gil Fenerty with Warren Hudson and briefly John Avery with Sean Millington. (I have chosen to ignore anything that happened when John Huard was coach)

Edit: I guess when Obie returned in '93 and '94 they used one with Duane Ford and either Pinner or Mo Dean.

I just remembered the Argos using Ricky Williams and John Avery together in the backfield in 2006 but that may the last time that we saw any kind of two-back set.

[Wobbler]

Also, I guess we're not kidding around with this plan to move Gabriel to field corner. I'm not a big fan of the idea yet; Gabriel seems like a better hitter than cover guy. Is Mitchell such an upgrade at safety that moving Gabriel makes sense, or am I undervaluing JG's coverage skills?

[Will]

Also, I guess we're not kidding around with this plan to move Gabriel to field corner. I'm not a big fan of the idea yet; Gabriel seems like a better hitter than cover guy. Is Mitchell such an upgrade at safety that moving Gabriel makes sense, or am I undervaluing JG's coverage skills?

It is also pre-season which would be a time to experiment.

Also in reference to '97, the Argos might not have used Pinball and Drummond in the backfield together, but it was nice to see that they had plenty of options. Remember when Drummond got injured they had Pinball at running back for a game or two and he ran right through the BC Lions in the Argos 46-3 win.

[Shatto]

Wobbler---Re the question on Woods--yes, in the 2 sessions I have seen, he played exclusively at Guard

[Neely2005]

Will TSN radio in Montreal broadcast the game? I would hate to miss it.

TSN 1050 is broadcasting the game tomorrow as it's a home game.

[AngeloV]

Also, I guess we're not kidding around with this plan to move Gabriel to field corner. I'm not a big fan of the idea yet; Gabriel seems like a better hitter than cover guy. Is Mitchell such an upgrade at safety that moving Gabriel makes sense, or am I undervaluing JG's coverage skills?

Personally, I think in today's game the free safety has a lot of coverage responsibilities. Coverage is probably easier at the field corner than it is in the middle of the field.

[Jon Gonzo]

From what I recall, the Argos didn't go with a two-back set when Drummond was with the team. Pinball moved to the slotback position at that point and Drummond was the sole running back.

You would likely have to go back to 1993 when the late Warren Hudson returned to the team at fullback and 1994-95 when Duane Forde was employed as an Argo for the last time that they really went with a two back set on a regular basis. They did it a bit in 1998 when they brought Tony Burse in.

Yes, now that you mention it, I believe your recollections are correct.

[Jon Gonzo]

I believe they are trying to get Gabriel out of the middle due to past concussion history. That's the collision corridor. Safety's and concussions.

[Will]

I believe they are trying to get Gabriel out of the middle due to past concussion history. That's the collision corridor. Safety's and concussions.

Good point, something we did not consider on our podcast last night.

[Bleeds Double Blue]

All I know is I am so happy to see a game thread back at the top of the list of threads. It's been a long time coming.

[mchesher03]

All I know is I am so happy to see a game thread back at the top of the list of threads. It's been a long time coming.

couldn't agree more!

[gilthethrill]

I hope the Argos stomp on Montreal. Give Popp and Trestman some very difficult personal decisions.

[R.J]

All I know is I am so happy to see a game thread back at the top of the list of threads. It's been a long time coming.
I couldn't possibly agree more. Heading to the game right now from work, and just so pumped.

[gilthethrill]

Listening to the game on TSN 690. Sounds like the crowd is into it. CFL stats show Bethel-Thompson has a INT and Jeff Matthews has a sack.

[Wobbler]

It sounded like we had a pretty good game, especially on defence. I hope that Wilder hasn't won the backup RB job by default; did Malena's injury look bad?

Six penalties on special teams is eyebrow-raising, but hopefully that will be sorted out.

[paulwoods13]

Malena's injury looked to be a knee. He had great difficulty moving on the sideline afterwards and had to be carted off. IMO Wilder won the job anyway. Had one very nice long run but also dropped a very catchable pass.

[paulwoods13]

Jimmy Ralph may have won a roster spot with a spectacular catch and a TD. The Argo first string defence looked very strong in the quarter or so they played. Both Owusu and his backup Berry scored TDs -- I like the look of our secondary so far. Some of the young Canadians showed well. Mason Woods didn't get in until the second half, at RG beside Jamal Campbell. Our possible starter at LT, W Campbell, seemed to get hurt. Our backup long snapper Tuck had a very rough night. Two backup kickers saw action. I'd say Watson was better than Graves. I didn't see Sackey, Wylie, Wallace, Posey in uniform and Waud was still wearing a walking boot. Cam Walker looked good in 2nd half, so did A Ford at DHB.

[Argo57]

I thought receiver Cole Watson #86 had a pretty solid game as well.

[ArgoGabe22]

There was another DB with #14, so the QB got credited with the INT but it didn't happen.

Graves and Watson are not real kickers. Just receivers who can kick in emergency situations.

[Will]

I admittedly should have paid a little more attention to Campbell at left tackle. The Argos did allow several sacks throughout the game but I didn't pay enough attention to which lineman may have been at fault.

The offense wasn't overly exciting tonight but it's just preseason and they obviously weren't going to show too much. Ray's only drive was efficient but of course Fuller fumbled the ball ending that drive. I thought Willy was okay as well and sort of ran into the same luck is Ray did with Dr stalling at Midfield or somewhat into Montreal territory. Mathews didn't really impress me to be honest and for Fajardo was pretty good as well although he would have played against Montreal's table scraps.

The defense definitely has potential. However it is pretty clear that Vernon Adams still has a lot of work to do in Montreal. The first Pick 6 was particularly brutal. The Alouettes could be in for a long season if Darian Durant gets hurt.

One player I was watching was James Wilder. He had a few hiccups early but I was impressed with his running Style and his strength especially on that long run where it seem like 5 Als players fail to tackle him. I think it'll be him and Whitaker as running backs. I felt sorry for Malena because that one run was pretty nice. At receiver Watson had a nice game as did Chandler Worthy. I think they are worth keeping around to give another shot in the next preseason game.

Special teams will definitely need to improve but confident this is something that Kevin Ivan can IR note before the season starts.

I sort of promised myself that it wouldn't comment on the crowd. However it was pretty pathetic for a preseason game no matter how you cut it.

[jerrym]

The small reported crowd of 2,000 concerns me but the defence looked respectable considering it was the first preseason game but the offence needs work although Ralph and Wilder impressed.

[ArgoZ]

The small reported crowd of 2,000 concerns me but the defence looked respectable considering it was the first preseason game but the offence needs work although Ralph and Wilder impressed.

5500 actually, which looked accurate. I was thinking 4500 behind the team, 500 endzone, 500 in East. Historically (last ten years minus last season) a normal number for an Argos pre-season game. Season tickets look be around 4000. Same old faces, which is fine, love you all. It's like they lost almost all new subscribers and everyone who doubled up from last season. A successful year could return ST back to 7000, that's a realistic goal.

[Will]

Game stats (https://www.cfl.ca/games/2363/montreal-alouettes-vs-toronto-argonauts/#boxscore) for everybody's reference.

[mchesher03]

anyone know where Devon Wylie was last night? Doesn't show up on the stat sheet and I didn't notice him in street clothes on the sideline (maybe I missed him). Think our receivers looked good last night but he's a definite asset himself.

[ArgoGabe22]

Gave up a TD late with the backups in but I'm confident that the defence can turn itself around for this season. Especially with the addition of Bear Woods. Really liked Troy Davis yesterday.

Offensively, still not sure what to expect. I know it's preseason game #1 so nothing spectacular was shown but I really wish Marcus Brady wasn't back this year. I think I saw Wylie on the sidelines. McDaniel is an interesting prospect. Running back turned slot.

I'm willing to bet that Jefferson, Shaw and Spencer will not be missed at all this season. I think we have found enough adequate replacements, although still need a reliable kick returner - which we have not had since Owens IMO.

[Shatto]

The 1st string offense (when Ray was in) and 1st string defense, as hoped, played very well. At this time of the season, it is interesting to ruminate on those who did not play on the 1st teams but look to have made a case for making the team. Here is my take on some of those players:

Wilder (RB)-aside form the early drop he looked good both running and catching the ball.

Ralph (WR)-a National receiver who made two spectacular catches. One for a long gain and one for the team's only offensive TD

Farjardo (QB)-was 9 of 11 and led the offense to its only TD. He gives the team something the other QB's don't --the threat of running.

Berry (DB)-showed excellent coverage skills and had a pick 6. Always close the ball.

Harris (DB)-not as noticeable as Berry but he also demonstrated excellent coverage abilities and closed on the ball very quickly.

Davis (DE)-one sack and always close the getting the QB. Excellent quickness. Can he challenge Butler for the DE position?

Plummer (LB)-started with the first string D but Woods will have that spot. However he showed great range and good pursuit of the ball.

Question --why were Posey, Paden and Wylie not dressed?

[Will]

Gave up a TD late with the backups in but I'm confident that the defence can turn itself around for this season. Especially with the addition of Bear Woods. Really liked Troy Davis yesterday.

Offensively, still not sure what to expect. I know it's preseason game #1 so nothing spectacular was shown but I really wish Marcus Brady wasn't back this year. I think I saw Wylie on the sidelines. McDaniel is an interesting prospect. Running back turned slot.

I'm willing to bet that Jefferson, Shaw and Spencer will not be missed at all this season. I think we have found enough adequate replacements, although still need a reliable kick returner - which we have not had since Owens IMO.

I hear what you're saying on the offence. Nothing we saw yesterday would calm the fears of those who didn't like the Milanovich/Brady offence.

[gilthethrill]

I listened to the game on TSN 690. I am positive that the commentators gave Posey credit for a 12 yard run on an end a round play in the 4th quarter. I imagine calling preseason games are tough with all the player shuffling, but I am accustomed to better commentary during Argo broadcasts.

[argolio]

I'd love to know how much weight today's coaches give to pre-season games compared to practices & team meetings. I think these games mean less than 30+ years ago.

Having said that, great to see the return of competitive football.

[R.J]

I hear what you're saying on the offence. Nothing we saw yesterday would calm the fears of those who didn't like the Milanovich/Brady offence.
Count me in as one of those.

As for the game itself, I thought the defence looked pretty good, but IMO Montreal's offence isn't a good test. Davis and Herdman looked pretty good out there.

Offensively, I liked the Ralph catch, and think Fajardo looked more decisive than he did last year, Wilder looked pretty good after a bad start, and there was another young receiver who's name escapes me that I thought looked pretty good as well. Offensive line is still a bit of a concern, but it was the first preseason game, and no sense in putting too much stock into it.

Special Teams looked like it was the first pre season game, too many penatlies, but I think Trestman as the Head Coach should clean those up, and Eiben knows this game well enough, that I think we should be fine, but I still think we need a returner.

Can't wait for next Friday, as the starters should see more game time, and theoretically we should get a better read on what this team could be.

[Neely2005]

Count me in as one of those.

As for the game itself, I thought the defence looked pretty good, but IMO Montreal's offence isn't a good test. Davis and Herdman looked pretty good out there.

Offensively, I liked the Ralph catch, and think Fajardo looked more decisive than he did last year, Wilder looked pretty good after a bad start, and there was another young receiver who's name escapes me that I thought looked pretty good as well. Offensive line is still a bit of a concern, but it was the first preseason game, and no sense in putting too much stock into it.

Special Teams looked like it was the first pre season game, too many penatlies, but I think Trestman as the Head Coach should clean those up, and Eiben knows this game well enough, that I think we should be fine, but I still think we need a returner.

Can't wait for next Friday, as the starters should see more game time, and theoretically we should get a better read on what this team could be.

To bad our next game isn't televised.
:-(

[R.J]

To bad our next game isn't televised.
:-(
According to the CFL website, Ticats.ca will air the game.
I'll be watching the game live at THF.

[ArgoRavi]

I'd love to know how much weight today's coaches give to pre-season games compared to practices & team meetings. I think these games mean less than 30+ years ago.

Having said that, great to see the return of competitive football.

I recall Trestman saying a few years ago when he was in Montreal that the performance of players day-to-day in training camp mattered to him more than what they did in preseason games.

[Neely2005]

According to the CFL website, Ticats.ca will air the game.
I'll be watching the game live at THF.

My condolences.
:-)