Toronto Argonauts @ Hamilton Tiger-Cats: Pre-season Game Thread

[Will]

The Argos take a trip down the QEW to the Donut to play the Ticats in their 2nd pre-season game. The cutdown deadline is Saturday night so it'll be a long 24 hours or so for Trestman & Co to get this team down to size. Some logjams to be cleared up at receiver and it's time to figure out who will protect Ricky Ray's blindside.

[argotom]

Just read today how the team still has the same 6 QB's on the roster and expects all to play during the game.
Not sure how that will work?

[Wobbler]

Just read today how the team still has the same 6 QB's on the roster and expects all to play during the game.
Not sure how that will work?
Easy: use them two at a time. We'll have the best flea flicker play in the league!

[ArgoZ]

I'll be at the game. Section 103 otherwise known as "BOX J" right behind the Cats bench. What have I done? :ohno:

[gilthethrill]

I'll be at the game. Section 103 otherwise known as "BOX J" right behind the Cats bench. What have I done? :ohno:

Ya, gotta question your sanity on that one.

[AngeloV]

I'll be at the game. Section 103 otherwise known as "BOX J" right behind the Cats bench. What have I done? :ohno:

Just don't wear a skirt...er kilt.

[Neely2005]

The game will be streamed on www.argosallaccess.ca

[RB957]

The game will be streamed on www.argosallaccess.ca (http://www.argosallaccess.ca)

Sweet. Thanks for that info. Would much rather watching the game on our site, vs. the TiCats one.

[Jon Gonzo]

#93 Martin and #91 Cash have gone missing from the Roster. Must be cuts. I thought Cash would stick.

[ArgoGabe22]

Cash and Martin still appears on the roster for me. Might not be on depth chart due to injury.

[Will]

#93 Martin and #91 Cash have gone missing from the Roster. Must be cuts. I thought Cash would stick.

Cash is injured.

[Wobbler]

Speaking of the depth chart:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Download the position chart for tomorrow night&#39;s road showdown with the <a href="https://twitter.com/Ticats">@Ticats</a>.<br><br>🗒 » <a href="https://t.co/EjHS9GFJ7Y">https://t.co/EjHS9GFJ7Y</a><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Argos?src=hash">#Argos</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Ticats?src=hash">#Ticats</a> <a href="https://t.co/N82ZXu05Zr">pic.twitter.com/N82ZXu05Zr</a></p>&mdash; Toronto Argonauts (@TorontoArgos) <a href="https://twitter.com/TorontoArgos/status/875373188326330369">June 15, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[AngeloV]

#93 Martin and #91 Cash have gone missing from the Roster. Must be cuts. I thought Cash would stick.

Bishop looked dominating in the first pre season game.

[argolio]

Bishop looked dominating in the first pre season game.Also looked good at practice yesterday.

[OV Argo]

Also looked good at practice yesterday.


Didn't look like much all last season IMO - mediocre; hopefully he's learned & progressed from his CFL experience - could he beat out Cash for a starting job? - Laing/ backed by Waud as one of the 7 only need apply NIs at the other DT spot ?

[1971GreyCup]

A rare "Argos" article in this mornings Toronto Star. It looks like Curtis Rush will cover the team this year as a freelance writer a year after his retirement. Interesting comment about how the team can't carry two kickers this year? I wonder what the basis of that comment is? A lot of teams did exactly that last year.

http://startouch.thestar.com/screens/b2110417-92c6-45c1-91fd-8efa683e63c5%7C_0.html

[jerrym]

Here's the Ticat depth chart.

http://assets.ticats.ca.s3.amazonaws.com/app/uploads/2017/06/15093124/Depth-Chart-Roster-6-16-17-vs-TOR.pdf
<script async="" src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script><iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" title="Twitter analytics iframe" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: none;"></iframe>

[Wobbler]

Interesting comment about how the team can't carry two kickers this year?
It doesn't say that the team can't carry two kickers this year.

[Neely2005]

It doesn't say that the team can't carry two kickers this year.

No but it does say that they wont:

"Meanwhile, Canadian kicker Ronnie Pfeffer, who was signed this week, will get a chance to play in the second half of Friday’s game. He has a tough assignment trying to unseat the incumbent, Lirim Hajrullahu, and the team won’t carry two kickers during the regular season."

[AngeloV]

Didn't look like much all last season IMO - mediocre;

Hard to judge based on last year. Stuber's D used a lot of 3 man fronts last year. Could be better suited as a DT over a NT.

[OV Argo]

Here's the Ticat depth chart.

http://assets.ticats.ca.s3.amazonaws.com/app/uploads/2017/06/15093124/Depth-Chart-Roster-6-16-17-vs-TOR.pdf
<script async="" src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script><iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" title="Twitter analytics iframe" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: none;"></iframe>

It doesn't matter for an ex. game, but the Ticats have only 6 NI starters listed there - and they won't be able to do that for regular season.


3 interior O-linemen + one receiver (last year's draft pick Mike Jones with Fantuz out) - I'm guessing will be the only 4 on offence. So they will need 3 on D.
Ted Laurent is a fixture at DT; and that depth chart shows Courtney Stephen at safety, but I think Craig Butler is going to start there in reg. season (?); so, either Stephen goes back to start at corner, or else they might have to go with 2 starting NI DTs (Atkinson has experience, plus former draft pick Evan Gill or this year's pick Justin Vaughn in the mix?)

Poor Kenty and Tillspin and that annoying "ratio problem".<iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: none;" title="Twitter analytics iframe"></iframe>

[Jayahre]

Should be a good test, the Ticats are showing most of their 1st stringers starting and the Argos showing most starters.

Look at what happened last night in Montreal, the Als first stringers against Ottawa back ups and a 3rd and 4th string QB. Most of the RBs players were rookies who never played the CFL game before.
Tough to evaluate talent when the rosters are lopsided.
It was a little sickening to see Als veteran players "showboating" after a TD in a pre-season game against 2nd and 3rd stringers.

[Jon Gonzo]

Hard to judge based on last year. Stuber's D used a lot of 3 man fronts last year. Could be better suited as a DT over a NT.

Fans often have a hard time evaluating DT's period. Some are asked to simply soak up blocks and plug a lane, so it doesn't look like much is going on at times.

I talked to a guy who played against him last year and he told me that Bishop is 'very strong.'

[ArgoGabe22]

Should be a good test, the Ticats are showing most of their 1st stringers starting and the Argos showing most starters.

I wouldn't trust any of the depth charts. Argos got sneaky and list players in numerical order, which does not necessarily mean they are starting. Ticats too could be fibbing with who starts.

[paulwoods13]

Pretty sure there are no NAT/INT requirements in preseason games.

[Wobbler]

No but it does say that they wont:
I read the article. There's a big difference between can't and won't.

[1971GreyCup]

It doesn't say that the team can't carry two kickers this year.

I must have misinterpreted "He has a tough assignment trying to unseat the incumbent, Lirim Hajrullahu, and the team won’t carry two kickers during the regular season"

[doubleblue]

In these pre-season games the home team generally use more starters than the visitors to insure a win. Got to keep the home town fans happy. Good policy as long as we don't catch on. ;)

[Wobbler]

I think Morgan just fumbled his way off the team.

[Neely2005]

It looks like we might actually have a return game this year.

[dmont]

Foster gets a sack. Great catch by Malcolm Williams. I'm pulling for him!

[jerrym]

Good to see Nationals University of Manitoba Evan Foster and Langley Rams WR Malcolm Williams having an impact with a sack and long reception.

[Wobbler]

Bethel-Thompson is sure getting a lot of reps! I suppose that the 1-2-3 QBs are already set, and just we're trying to figure out who to keep on the IR/PR.

[dmont]

Bethel Thompson's looking better now that he's comfortable. Who made that good catch? The one called back?

[dmont]

I think Jackson just ran over one of our guys from behind
Ha!

[gilthethrill]

Both Oneyka and Foster, 2 draft picks made plays in the first half. I think Malcolm Williams can be the 3rd Canadian receiver on the roster behind Jones and Noel. As for the return games, both Jackson and Worthy appear worthy (sorry for repeating myself) of roster spots.

[jerrym]

Chandler Worthy had some good returns, especially a long one for 39 yards, as well as a long reception that was called back because of an offside penalty.

[Gill The Thrill]

Both Oneyka and Foster, 2 draft picks made plays in the first half. I think Malcolm Williams can be the 3rd Canadian receiver on the roster behind Jones and Noel. As for the return games, both Jackson and Worthy appear worthy (sorry for repeating myself) of roster spots.

How about Jimmy Ralph, I'd rank him ahead of Noel. Noel sure about Worthy, but like Jackson as PR/KR.

[jerrym]

Bethel Thompson is only 5/13 but a lot of those incompletions were early and some were drops. To me the important for a rookie like him in preseason is that he kept his composure and improved in the second quarter, although that was when Hamilton's second stringers started coming into the game.

[Gill The Thrill]

Chandler Worthy had some good returns, especially a long one for 39 yards, as well as a long reception that was called back because of an offside penalty.


Have to take into consideration who the return was on...still good, and also take into consideration if the coaching staff thinks he can stay healthy and is durable. This is why I wasn't too upset with Diontae Spencer going to Ottawa...decent enough returner at times, but really frail, and overrated as a WR.

[Wobbler]

As for the return games, both Jackson and Worthy appear worthy (sorry for repeating myself) of roster spots.
I think Worthy has done enough tonight to make the team as a solid WR/KR. Jackson isn't going to play RB for us; is he a good enough returner to earn a spot? I suspect not.

[Gill The Thrill]

Congrats to Jimmy Ralph...best hands of all the National receivers, maybe one of the best on the team.

[jerrym]

For an undrafted guy, Jimmy Ralph is showing some promise.

[Wobbler]

Gotta love Jimmy Ralph. We'll keep him around one way or another.

[jerrym]

Nice interception by Marcus Alford. Argos looking better as the game goes on.

[Gill The Thrill]

I think Worthy has done enough tonight to make the team as a solid WR/KR. Jackson isn't going to play RB for us; is he a good enough returner to earn a spot? I suspect not.

See the bobble on that catch...that's one that if he's hit hard enough becomes an interception. I don't know why announcers (Marshall Ferguson) say bobbled catches are great catches, they're not. They're unclean because the receiver is not securing the football quick enough before being hit and possibly separated from the ball.

[Gill The Thrill]

Can we also end the Jeff Matthews experiment...the guy is brutal. His delivery is so slow.

[Wobbler]

Mathews sure looks like a big step up from Bethel-Thompson. Not a fair comparison, of course, but I have a new appreciation for JM.

[OV Argo]

Both Oneyka and Foster, 2 draft picks made plays in the first half. I think Malcolm Williams can be the 3rd Canadian receiver on the roster behind Jones and Noel. As for the return games, both Jackson and Worthy appear worthy (sorry for repeating myself) of roster spots.





Robert Woodson making some plays too; that\s 3 draft pick defensive players who might be able to help - let's see if they get to play any D come regular season.

Can they keep all 3 of Ralph, Jones & Noel on the game roster, plus Coombs too or Williams? - kinda doubt it

[Argo57]

Can we also end the Jeff Matthews experiment...the guy is brutal. His delivery is so slow.

Sorry, I must be watching a different game?

[OV Argo]

Can we also end the Jeff Matthews experiment...the guy is brutal. His delivery is so slow.


Kenty's boy from US college ball? - gonna rate repeat CFL looks due to his passport.

[jerrym]

Ralph continues to impress with four receptions and a TD now.

[OV Argo]

Argos 3rd & 4th string QBs keeping them in the game vs. a lot of Ticat starters = good sign, I guess. Compare that to Ottawa getting blown out last night.

[Wobbler]

See the bobble on that catch...that's one that if he's hit hard enough becomes an interception.
I agree that he doesn't seem like a great receiver, but he's a solid backup. That, combined with his kick return skill, should make the difference.

[Gill The Thrill]

Sorry, I must be watching a different game?

I'll take Fajardo over both Matthews and Bethel-Thompson hands down.

[Argo57]

I'll take Fajardo over both Matthews and Bethel-Thompson hands down.

I also prefer Fajardo, wouldn't call Matthews performance brutal though.

[Wobbler]

I'll take Fajardo over both Matthews and Bethel-Thompson hands down.
Nevertheless, Mathews had a strong game tonight.

[Gill The Thrill]

I also prefer Fajardo, wouldn't call Matthews performance brutal though.

I wouldn't either, but his TD pass was against a makeshift defence. I'm basing it on his poor play with Hamilton last year. Remember he had the #2 spot over Masoli but was so bad in game action that Austin had no choice but to put in Masoli.

[ArgoGabe22]

Ticats moved Kay Okafor to OL since he's so raw. OV won't like hearing that.

[ArgoGabe22]

Gotta love Jimmy Ralph. We'll keep him around one way or another.

He's shown more 'excitement' value than both Jones and Noel did last regular season. I'm really liking Ralph. I don't know if he's as good as a blocker or better than Jones but has caught everyone's attention.

Matthews was fine tonight. 80% passes completed and no turnovers. Even ran for a first down.

[gilthethrill]

Nevertheless, Mathews had a strong game tonight.

True he has, but against 3rd stringers.

[Wobbler]

He's shown more 'excitement' value than both Jones and Noel did last regular season. I'm really liking Ralph.
I think Jones will also do good things, but yeah - I'm on Team Ralph!

[OV Argo]

Ticats moved Kay Okafor to OL since he's so raw. OV won't like hearing that.

Ultra under-sized to play O-line in the pros; but, hey, he's Canadian and maybe a good "athlete" and they belong more on the O-line? ;o)

Tillspin's drafting this year was kinda strange or iffy IMO - he's clueless and GOB myopic when it comes to Canadian talent.

[dmont]

.

Jimmy Ralph has had a good couple of games, but I think I'd choose Malcolm Williams. He's a truer WR like Jones and Noel. I don't see Ralph backing up Coombs. Good player, but odd man out in our system, I think.

[OV Argo]

.

Jimmy Ralph has had a good couple of games, but I think I'd choose Malcolm Williams. He's a truer WR like Jones and Noel. I don't see Ralph backing up Coombs. Good player, but odd man out in our system, I think.


Jones is a slotback.

[Gill The Thrill]

True he has, but against 3rd stringers.

Both teams swapped lousy QB's from last season....Matthews and Kilgore:D

[ArgoGabe22]

So Prukop suffers a "mysterious injury" post game and is moved to the 9 game IR?

[Argo57]

True he has, but against 3rd stringers.

That's what makes QB evaluation so difficult.

[Gill The Thrill]

.

Jimmy Ralph has had a good couple of games, but I think I'd choose Malcolm Williams. He's a truer WR like Jones and Noel. I don't see Ralph backing up Coombs. Good player, but odd man out in our system, I think.
What's a truer???? and what has Levi Noel done consistently to show that he's a truerer??? He's the new Spencer Watt of National receivers, a hyped guy who did so little.

On a positive note, you could tell this regime is soo much better at acquiring talent than Barker and Milo...no more Henry Jose trying out at RB, or Todd Lowber trying out at receiver. Not as many fillers in camp just being warm bodies.

[gilthethrill]

Even in preseason it feels nice to beat Hamilton. Nice one handed TD grab by Johnson from Prukop. Cut down day will be interesting.

[Argo57]

Even in preseason it feels nice to beat Hamilton. Nice one handed TD grab by Johnson from Prukop. Cut down day will be interesting.

Great throw as well, Prukop also showed some promise.

[ArgoGabe22]

Todd Lowber trying out at receiver.

Nice throwback. Lowber had three cracks to make the roster. I was once bored and curious what happened to him. Found out he now works at the US Department of State.

[ArgoGabe22]

Even in preseason it feels nice to beat Hamilton. Nice one handed TD grab by Johnson from Prukop. Cut down day will be interesting.

Would not surprise me if Wylie and Paden are released. Not sure Posey has shown enough to start as well.

[paulwoods13]

Everyone loves their roster at the end of camp, but I think we have the makings of a good team and will have some very difficult roster decisions to make. We seem to have a fair bit of depth at a lot of positions, and I love our young NAT talent.

[argotom]

Prokup looked good, Ralph made some nice catches and comes from a good gene pool.
I like Jackson as the returner and Wilder as the RB although the latter didn't have that much work.
Mathews although better than last week is probably gone.

[paulwoods13]

Would not surprise me if Wylie and Paden are released. Not sure Posey has shown enough to start as well.

I see Paden gone almost for sure. Wylie may get kept until he's fully healthy. I still think Posey starts, and may end up being our most productive receiver.

[paulwoods13]

I hope we don't see this uni combo ever again. Please go back to contrasting pants/jerseys, and save the white helmets for the white jerseys.

[Stevoman]

I liked Prokup's throwing motions and his ability to run the ball. Very refreshing considering Kilgore was on the other side and was making more errant throws. Ray, Fajardo, Prokup, would be my choice but I imagine Willy will be in the mix.

[Argo57]

I hope we don't see this uni combo ever again. Please go back to contrasting pants/jerseys, and save the white helmets for the white jerseys.

Not big on the plain white socks either.

[ArgoZ]

I hope we don't see this uni combo ever again. Please go back to contrasting pants/jerseys, and save the white helmets for the white jerseys.

I'm hoping it was just our pre-season experimental look.

[doubleblue]

I don't believe any actual starters played tonight for the Argos. But some young Canadian backups got a lot of playing time. Ralph and Williams should be kept around somewhere as WR depth. Woodson at safety. Late round pick Carson played almost the whole game at DT didn't look out of place. Jamal Campbell looks like the best young Canadian back up O-Lineman. Sackey and Woods don't look they will be able to play any time soon at Guard. Kolankowski didn't look out of place at Center but McEwen backed by Watman are ahead of him. Newton should make the team for ST's. Herdman shows more quickness in game play than testing, might show enough for a PR spot. Mathews surprised a bit at QB and his experience showed. Both Bethal-Thompson and Prukop showed some promise. Who do you keep there as a 4th stringer?
Worthy looks like he could make the team as a Returner/WR. Maybe WR's Watson and Johnson as well on the PR. Brooks at DB played well enough for a PR spot.
I would have liked to see young Canadians like Jones and Noel get some more game experience instead of some who won't be kept around.
Don't remember so many rookies and young players seeing so much playing time in a pre-season game and still win the game. Trestman does things different and the rookies playing experience will show up down the road when their turn comes.

[ArgoZ]

I don't understand the hate for Mathews on here. He was the best of our QB's tonight despite who he was playing. He's only 25. I think it would be foolish to cut him at this point.

[Argo57]

Tomorrow should be an interesting day in the CFL.

[argolio]

Looked to me like we had no glaring missed assignments, and our tackling was generally good.

Considering our o-line were backups and were matched up against many of their starters, I thought all our QBs stood up to the pressure quite well.

In three camp visits and two preseason games. Jimmy Ralph impressed me every time. I can't see him not making the team.

Most important, no serious injuries that I can remember.

[dmont]

What's a truer???? and what has Levi Noel done consistently to show that he's a truerer??? He's the new Spencer Watt of National receivers, a hyped guy who did so little.

On a positive note, you could tell this regime is soo much better at acquiring talent than Barker and Milo...no more Henry Jose trying out at RB, or Todd Lowber trying out at receiver. Not as many fillers in camp just being warm bodies.

Truer: the comparative adjective form of "true". I just meant that our team seems to designate certain positions for nats and others for imports. From what I gather, it seems like we're leaning toward one of the starting WR positions being a national, and it's a good idea to have good national backups for that position.

Noel showed flashes last year, he's got a year of experience at the pro level, and he's played in more than just two preseason games. Plus he's good on specials.

Agreed on the talent in camp. I like that they brought in a ton of WRs and DBs, and that they're taking a good look at a power running back. Ray, Willy, and Fajardo on the roster, bethel-thompson (because he's a pocket passer in the Ricky Ray style) to the PR.

[jerrym]

Mathews surprised a lot of people, including me, tonight.

[OV Argo]

What's a truer???? and what has Levi Noel done consistently to show that he's a truerer??? He's the new Spencer Watt of National receivers, a hyped guy who did so little.

On a positive note, you could tell this regime is soo much better at acquiring talent than Barker and Milo...no more Henry Jose trying out at RB, or Todd Lowber trying out at receiver. Not as many fillers in camp just being warm bodies.

In case you missed it last season - Noel made 2 terrific grabs, including a TD, on one series, in his ultra limited playing time; when he starts playing lots and gets targeted lots, and drops passes or does little, you can start running jabs about him. but for now, your opinion about him is total garbage, with no on field evidence to back it up.

[ArgoRavi]

I don't understand the hate for Mathews on here. He was the best of our QB's tonight despite who he was playing. He's only 25. I think it would be foolish to cut him at this point.

I have never been a huge Jeff Mathews fan but he played very well on Friday night.

[Rich]

In case you missed it last season - Noel made 2 terrific grabs, including a TD, on one series, in his ultra limited playing time; when he starts playing lots and gets targeted lots, and drops passes or does little, you can start running jabs about him. but for now, your opinion about him is total garbage, with no on field evidence to back it up.

Suddenly the Argos have too much NAT talent at the receiver positions. Maybe we really could go with two starting NATs. I'd be perfectly content with Noel/Williams/Ralph sharing one receiving slot and Coombs/Jones/Cross sharing the other. That's a lot of talent with the ability to give the offence a lot of flexibility.

[Rich]

I hope we don't see this uni combo ever again. Please go back to contrasting pants/jerseys, and save the white helmets for the white jerseys.

Gotta disagree vehemently, Paul, I think the white socks work great with the white helmets and blue unis, kinda reminds me of the '67 home look.

868

[Rich]

I have never been a huge Jeff Mathews fan but he played very well on Friday night.

I find it curious that The Professor spent the whole game trying to determine who the #4QB is when he hasn't officially named a #2 yet. I am assuming it will be Willy which I think would be a mistake.

But whoever the #2 is, wouldn't it have been wise to get him some playing time in this game to build up some confidence for when he is needed?

[paulwoods13]

I find it curious that The Professor spent the whole game trying to determine who the #4QB is when he hasn't officially named a #2 yet. I am assuming it will be Willy which I think would be a mistake.

But whoever the #2 is, wouldn't it have been wise to get him some playing time in this game to build up some confidence for when he is needed?

It's at least possible that Fajardo ends up No. 2 and Mathews No. 3. I think it's doubtful because I have a hard time seeing them risk having no experienced backup behind Ricky. But it's at least conceivable. Did Mathews play well enough last night to have them let Willy go? Maybe Sask would take him back in a trade?

[Will]

Very few projected starters played last night on either side of the ball. Bear Woods started at MLB and had 3 tackles (incl. 1 TFL) in I'd say a quarter of play. Great closing speed on the ball carrier, damned glad to have him and hope he can stay healthy. Of note I wanted to highlight this from the Argos website (https://www.argonauts.ca/2017/06/16/post-game-notes-preseason-b-hamilton/):

A handful of Toronto Argonauts 2017 CFL Draft picks proved their worth on Friday night: LB Nakas Onyeka (3 DT, 1 TFL, 1 QP), DL Evan Foster (3 DT, 1 ST, 1 QS), S Robert Woodson (3 DT, 1 ST, 1 QS), LB Justin Herdman (1 DT, 1 QS). I think Onyeka got the opportunity to lineup with Bear Woods in the first quarter.

Argos defence looked pretty good against Collaros considering it wasn't the "A" unit out there. Collaros missed on several throws and was pressured on several others. The Ticats left him in long enough to put together that touchdown drive. The Argos allowed another TD on a short field, but shutout the Tiger-Cats after that. The caveat being that the final two Ticat QB's that played (Keith and Kilgore) were awful.

Bethel-Thompson looked exactly like a QB seeing his first CFL game action. He played against the Ticat first-stringers and struggled a little bit and also had a couple of breakdowns by the OL that didn't help him. Seemed to find a nice rhythm by the end of the first half. Of concern (in spite of the starters not being in there) is that the Argos did surrender 7 sacks last night, several were coverage sacks but still a stat you never like to see.

Special teams coverage was OK. Allowed some big returns, but looked great on other punts/kickoffs too.

Some interesting questions for Propp and Trestman to answer including:

1) Who won the KR/PR battle? Both Worthy and Jackson had a few nice returns, and both flashed a bit on offence.

2) How many of the draft picks make the team? As highlighted above, 4 flashed potential last night.

3) Did Mathews do enough last night to stick on the roster and, if so, at whose expense?

[Jon Gonzo]

It's at least possible that Fajardo ends up No. 2 and Mathews No. 3. I think it's doubtful because I have a hard time seeing them risk having no experienced backup behind Ricky. But it's at least conceivable. Did Mathews play well enough last night to have them let Willy go? Maybe Sask would take him back in a trade?

Be great to get a 1st Rounder, and a starting All-Star DB

[Jon Gonzo]

A handful of Toronto Argonauts 2017 CFL Draft picks proved their worth on Friday night: LB Nakas Onyeka (3 DT, 1 TFL, 1 QP), DL Evan Foster (3 DT, 1 ST, 1 QS), S Robert Woodson (3 DT, 1 ST, 1 QS), LB Justin Herdman (1 DT, 1 QS). I think Onyeka got the opportunity to lineup with Bear Woods in the first quarter.



Who of our group with the CIS knowledge knows which of these prospects can go back an play University Ball this year? That'll be a big hint on who stays and who doesn't I should think. OV?

[1971GreyCup]

Shout out to the Ticats for Game Day experience. A multiple of activities and experiences were available at Tim Hortons Field and a few more will be added when the season begins. Bob Young isn't resting on his laurels and continues to be a CFL model owners.

[ArgoZ]

1) Who won the KR/PR battle? Both Worthy and Jackson had a few nice returns, and both flashed a bit on offence.

3) Did Mathews do enough last night to stick on the roster and, if so, at whose expense?

A exciting PR has been sorely missed. I love a guy who can bust his way right up the gut like Clemons, Dorsey and Owens used too. Which one is these guys broke that nice return up the middle last night? It was shades of Pinball the way he was juking. He gets my vote.

As I mentioned in another post, Mathews is only 25. He outplays the other QB's but gets axed for a 29 year old Bethel-Thompson or even a 30 year old Willy? Hard decisions today.

[ArgoZ]

Shout out to the Ticats for Game Day experience. A multiple of activities and experiences were available at Tim Hortons Field and a few more will be added when the season begins. Bob Young isn't resting on his laurels and continues to be a CFL model owners.

Agree. It's a great time and an envious setup. Props also to the fans. As an Argos fan sitting right in the middle of hostile territory last night, I was treated fine. Even had good chats going and leaving the stadium. The "class" of fans is much higher than when I was a regular in Box G or H at Ivor Wynne.

[OV Argo]

Suddenly the Argos have too much NAT talent at the receiver positions. Maybe we really could go with two starting NATs. I'd be perfectly content with Noel/Williams/Ralph sharing one receiving slot and Coombs/Jones/Cross sharing the other. That's a lot of talent with the ability to give the offence a lot of flexibility.



All those ex-NFL resume receivers in camp - and none seemed to step-up to grab a starter job as a CFL receiver - guys like Stephen Hill (cut) and Justin Brown (what happened to him?); Joe Morgan has played and caught some passes last night; Worthy too - but maybe none of those guys make the team and it's all import receivers who have CFL experience who make it (Green, Fuller as vets, plus Posey & Edwards played some in the league last year) ?

I think the Argos could easily go with 2 starting NI receivers out of Jones, Noel, Coombs or young guys like Ralph & Williams who have really impressed. But they won't; unless there is some sort of dreaded "ratio problem" that dictates they have to start 2 NIs there to make the 7 only.

And if Jones & Noel are not that highly regarded for playing time by the new regime, that did not draft them, then maybe they could make good trade bait - the Ticats & Bombers in particular are pretty thin in terms of NI receiver talent.

[1971GreyCup]

Agree. It's a great time and an envious setup. Props also to the fans. As an Argos fan sitting right in the middle of hostile territory last night, I was treated fine. Even had good chats going and leaving the stadium. The "class" of fans is much higher than when I was a regular in Box G or H at Ivor Wynne.

We noted exactly the same thing last night. Friendly banter from the Ticat fans. Even when we confronted Argos sucks, fans quickly warmed. They just didn't have a sufficient imagination to come up with something creative. My 16 year old son grew up watching Argos games in The Hammer. He learned, but wasn't allowed to use a number of colourful words there. Haha

They are looking forward to a turn in fortunes down the QEW. Argos weakness doesn't help the Ticats one bit. I've gone to Ivor Wynne since Theismann threw 5 interceptions, four to Al Brenner. Then went on to a Super Bowl. The Hammer was no friend to Joe the Throw. Truely a historic rivalry.

[Jon Gonzo]

PIVOT DECISIONS;

These are pivot points that will often make the other decisions for themselves.

LT

I believe the Team will go with 4 Nationals and 1 American on the OL this year, as they groom Jamal Campbell to start

One will start, one will get cut and one will go to the PR

Brandon Washington, William Campbell, or Ryan Mack

*Washington was hurt last night and it may be the IR for him to start. Otherwise, he was the favourite

OLB

Rico Murray, Cassius Vaughan, Davonte Neal


One cut here.

Rico will probably be kept for his versatility and switching up and back. Neal was tried on Special Teams/returns last night. PR?

I think one gets cut; while there must be, at least, some temptation to start a Canadian here; Onyeka, Newton, Herdman?

I think Terrence Plumber sticks, at least until Marshall McFadden comes off the IR. That's if they keep him at all. Maybe one of those two slide over?


RECEIVER;

Has Devon Wylie lost his job to Chandler Worthy, Cole Watson, or Cam McDaniel?

Should be 2 cuts here and one to PR

Wouldn't be surprised to see both Worthy and Martese Jackson around for a least a few more weeks anyway.

How dinged up is Jeff Fuller?

Again, is there more temptation to go with 2 Canadians here? Jimmy Ralph has opened up that conversation. Or can Brandon Whitacker take a hybrid Slot position with James Wilder as the main Back?

QB;

I believe Jeff Matthews response to an ordinary start, may have the Coaches batting around what they may do with Drew Willy.

I see this as Willy/ and or Matthews. Cody Fajardo is a lock. He looks like a potential starter with upside and dynamics. Willy is vanilla.

One wins, one looses. Maybe a team (Saskatchewan) would give us a 1st Rounder for him?

Then they'll decide on which one of the young guys sticks; Prukop or Bethel-Thompson.

Yes, one may have been injured last night, if they believe they both have potential future stuff. (;

[OV Argo]

I have never been a huge Jeff Mathews fan but he played very well on Friday night.


Matthews had some impressive moments for the Ticats - did he not? - where he completed some passes and looked OK; he also looked useless at times, with dumb decision making, bad throws and lack of mobility. Maybe he becomes the next Warren Moon though, under the guidance of a QB guru like Trestman. Pigs will be flying then. ;o)

[gilthethrill]

Jon Gonzo I saw McFadden on the field late late in the game.

[Shirley]

Pretty solid review. I share your belief in Cody Fajardo, I hope he is a lock, he should be #2 in my mind.



PIVOT DECISIONS;

These are pivot points that will often make the other decisions for themselves.

LT

I believe the Team will go with 4 Nationals and 1 American on the OL this year, as they groom Jamal Campbell to start

One will start, one will get cut and one will go to the PR

Brandon Washington, William Campbell, or Ryan Mack

*Washington was hurt last night and it may be the IR for him to start. Otherwise, he was the favourite

OLB

Rico Murray, Cassius Vaughan, Davonte Neal


One cut here.

Rico will probably be kept for his versatility and switching up and back. Neal was tried on Special Teams/returns last night. PR?

I think one gets cut; while there must be, at least, some temptation to start a Canadian here; Onyeka, Newton, Herdman?

I think Terrence Plumber sticks, at least until Marshall McFadden comes off the IR. That's if they keep him at all. Maybe one of those two slide over?


RECEIVER;

Has Devon Wylie lost his job to Chandler Worthy, Cole Watson, or Cam McDaniel?

Should be 2 cuts here and one to PR

Wouldn't be surprised to see both Worthy and Martese Jackson around for a least a few more weeks anyway.

How dinged up is Jeff Fuller?

Again, is there more temptation to go with 2 Canadians here? Jimmy Ralph has opened up that conversation. Or can Brandon Whitacker take a hybrid Slot position with James Wilder as the main Back?

QB;

I believe Jeff Matthews response to an ordinary start, may have the Coaches batting around what they may do with Drew Willy.

I see this as Willy/ and or Matthews. Cody Fajardo is a lock. He looks like a potential starter with upside and dynamics. Willy is vanilla.

One wins, one looses. Maybe a team (Saskatchewan) would give us a 1st Rounder for him?

Then they'll decide on which one of the young guys sticks; Prukop or Bethel-Thompson.

Yes, one may have been injured last night, if they believe they both have potential future stuff. (;

[Tobin Rote]

PIVOT DECISIONS;

These are pivot points that will often make the other decisions for themselves.

LT

I believe the Team will go with 4 Nationals and 1 American on the OL this year, as they groom Jamal Campbell to start

One will start, one will get cut and one will go to the PR

Brandon Washington, William Campbell, or Ryan Mack

*Washington was hurt last night and it may be the IR for him to start. Otherwise, he was the favourite

OLB

Rico Murray, Cassius Vaughan, Davonte Neal


One cut here.

Rico will probably be kept for his versatility and switching up and back. Neal was tried on Special Teams/returns last night. PR?

I think one gets cut; while there must be, at least, some temptation to start a Canadian here; Onyeka, Newton, Herdman?

I think Terrence Plumber sticks, at least until Marshall McFadden comes off the IR. That's if they keep him at all. Maybe one of those two slide over?


RECEIVER;

Has Devon Wylie lost his job to Chandler Worthy, Cole Watson, or Cam McDaniel?

Should be 2 cuts here and one to PR

Wouldn't be surprised to see both Worthy and Martese Jackson around for a least a few more weeks anyway.

How dinged up is Jeff Fuller?

Again, is there more temptation to go with 2 Canadians here? Jimmy Ralph has opened up that conversation. Or can Brandon Whitacker take a hybrid Slot position with James Wilder as the main Back?

QB;

I believe Jeff Matthews response to an ordinary start, may have the Coaches batting around what they may do with Drew Willy.

I see this as Willy/ and or Matthews. Cody Fajardo is a lock. He looks like a potential starter with upside and dynamics. Willy is vanilla.

One wins, one looses. Maybe a team (Saskatchewan) would give us a 1st Rounder for him?

Then they'll decide on which one of the young guys sticks; Prukop or Bethel-Thompson.

Yes, one may have been injured last night, if they believe they both have potential future stuff. (;

Bethel-Thompson is not young...

[Argo57]

I still think Willy's contract (even renogiated) will work against him moving forward, Fajardo surely less expensive at this time and way more upside!
CFL experience only counts with performance on the field, which IMO could leave Willy on the outside.
I would like Fajardo at #2 and Matthews at #3, Prukop showed some decent skills last night as well (albeit against Hamilton's inexperienced D).

[argolio]

I wouldn't be totally surprised if any of our QBs (other than Ray) gets cut. But I do think they'll find room for Prukop.

[Shirley]

I am on board no matter what moves they make, I will be disappointed if they give short shrift to Fajardo that is for darrrn sure!!! But am tired of being negative the last few years, we have a great GM/HC combo.
They basically get a pass on criticism at least short term, this year from yours truly, though I may have to vent to some degree when/if they make bonehead moves


I wouldn't be totally surprised if any of our QBs (other than Ray) gets cut. But I do think they'll find room for Prukop.

[Shirley]

I still think Willy's contract (even renogiated) will work against him moving forward, Fajardo surely less expensive at this time and way more upside!
CFL experience only counts with performance on the field, which IMO could leave Willy on the outside.
I would like Fajardo at #2 and Matthews at #3, Prukop showed some decent skills last night as well (albeit against Hamilton's inexperienced D).

What you said works for me

[argolio]

I am on board no matter what moves they make, I will be disappointed if they give short shrift to Fajardo that is for darrrn sure!!! But am tired of being negative the last few years, we have a great GM/HC combo.
They basically get a pass on criticism at least short term, this year from yours truly, though I may have to vent to some degree when/if they make bonehead movesFajardo seems safe, but this management team also had no connection to him when they got hired.

We'll know in a few hours.

[Shirley]

Matthews had some impressive moments for the Ticats - did he not? - where he completed some passes and looked OK; he also looked useless at times, with dumb decision making, bad throws and lack of mobility. Maybe he becomes the next Warren Moon though, under the guidance of a QB guru like Trestman. Pigs will be flying then. ;o)

One of the announcers recently sated that Trestman was a QB Whisperer? I like Trest but were are all these qbs he has developed?

In fact he was asked at early presser and stated he had nothing to do with AC success, suggested he learned more from AC rather than vice versa

I am expecting good things from Ray under good coaching, thrilled to have Trestman as HC btw

[R.J]

I think the odds are that it'll be Ray #1, Willy #2, and Fajardo at #3. I'm hoping that the team keeps Prukop around. Bethel-Thompson leaves much to be desired and Matthews IMO is a pylon and has the worst pocket awareness I've ever seen. In saying that, I wouldn't be completely surprised if Matthews sticks around, as Trestman does seem to like pocket QB's.

[Wobbler]

I didn't think Wilder had a great game yesterday. Is there a chance we keep Jackson instead because of his KR skill?

[Antwon]

Matthews had some impressive moments for the Ticats - did he not? - where he completed some passes and looked OK; he also looked useless at times, with dumb decision making, bad throws and lack of mobility. Maybe he becomes the next Warren Moon though, under the guidance of a QB guru like Trestman. Pigs will be flying then. ;o)

That's my take on Matthews time in Hamilton. Looked great at times but always managed brain cramps at some point or two in the game. The fact that he consistently did this worries me if they keep him based on a short time on the field.

[ArgoFan1]

Forgot this little tale from the pre-season game- and a shame that I didn't think to snap a picture at the time. Wishing it was on national television. At one point in the game they had this large flag that was being passed by the people in attendance over their heads along one side of the stadium, like the Leaf flag that they pass along at the ACC during games. Flag was supposed to read Hamilton Proud, but they had the thing facing down, so you could only see it backwards. And they passed it that way the entire length of the stadium. What a telling moment for Hamilton !!!!!!!! Darn- a picture would have been priceless !!

[1971GreyCup]

Forgot this little tale from the pre-season game- and a shame that I didn't think to snap a picture at the time. Wishing it was on national television. At one point in the game they had this large flag that was being passed by the people in attendance over their heads along one side of the stadium, like the Leaf flag that they pass along at the ACC during games. Flag was supposed to read Hamilton Proud, but they had the thing facing down, so you could only see it backwards. And they passed it that way the entire length of the stadium. What a telling moment for Hamilton !!!!!!!! Darn- a picture would have been priceless !!

I've got pictures. It was all over social media. Quite funny