GAME THREAD - Week 1: Hamilton Tiger-Cats @ Toronto Argonauts

[Will]

Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 4:00 PM

869 vs 870

Let's please get this season off to a better start than 2016. It will help set the tone.

[argolio]

Seven days and 90 minutes away. It's here!

[R.J]

Too long of an off season, the season is finally here, and I can't wait for Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and especially Sunday.

[Argo57]

I've already started my stretching program and cracked a half bag of peanuts in the shell.
In mid season form and ready to go!!

[AngeloV]

So who goes down first? Ray or Collaros?

[Argo57]

So who goes down first? Ray or Collaros?

Considering Ricky is old and fragile and Zach is the young stud QB my guess is Zach😛

[R.J]

I think if Zach gets another serious injury this season then Ticats may have to move on. 3 seasons and 2 serious injuries, hasn't reached Ray level yet though.

[Wobbler]

Ray had one serious injury in his first nine years in the CFL. Hopefully Collaros has just been unlucky.

[1971GreyCup]

Just like last season's home opener against the Ticats set the tone when they crushed Argos at new BMO Field, I expect the new era to be unveiled with a strong Argos display on Sunday afternoon. Hamilton will face a brand new team and I expect the Argos Defense to be aggressive.

Anyone have a handle on ticket sales for Sunday? According to Ticketmaster, you can get 4 tickets on the East Side, 50 Yard Line, Row 4, for $97! I would expect a lot fans to make the trip for this game.

[AngeloV]

Ray had one serious injury in his first nine years in the CFL. Hopefully Collaros has just been unlucky.

I'm sure that'll all it is. I was only kidding. I have never bought the line of certain players being injury prone.

[Bleeds Double Blue]

Anyone have a handle on ticket sales for Sunday? According to Ticketmaster, you can get 4 tickets on the East Side, 50 Yard Line, Row 4, for $97! I would expect a lot fans to make the trip for this game.

This fan will definitely be making the trip. I have no idea of what to expect on Sunday but I'll be there. And Argo57, take it easy on those nuts. You don't want to wind up on the IR with a thumb injury right out of the gate.

[Neely2005]

I think if Zach gets another serious injury this season then Ticats may have to move on. 3 seasons and 2 serious injuries, hasn't reached Ray level yet though.

Collaros has missed significant time in all 3 of his seasons as a starter. How many injuries did Ray have in his first 3 years as a starter?

[Neely2005]

Just an FYI the Tailgate / Shipyard combo opens at noon on Sunday at Ontario Place Parking Lot # 2.

I'm predicting an Argonauts win.

[ArgoRavi]

Collaros has missed significant time in all 3 of his seasons as a starter. How many injuries did Ray have in his first 3 years as a starter?

0.0, I believe is the answer.

[Argo57]

This fan will definitely be making the trip. I have no idea of what to expect on Sunday but I'll be there. And Argo57, take it easy on those nuts. You don't want to wind up on the IR with a thumb injury right out of the gate.

I'm ready for Sunday!!
Nothing like the return of CFL football!!

[mchesher03]

Did that first game ever set the tone last year (not in a good way either!)

Can still remember that glimmer of hope, believe it was early in the 2nd half, ticats were 2nd and long and back inside their own 5. They proceeded to march the length of the field and score a TD. That wasn’t the turning point of the season and even with a stop there, we still may well lose that game – but man them converting that long 2nd down was crushing at the time.

I’m really looking forward to seeing what the defence can bring on Sunday. I think they pressure collaros. If (and a big if) our o-line keeps pressure off Ricky – I also look forward to seeing what our receivers can do.

[ArgoGabe22]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">What should Toronto expect out of an <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Argos?src=hash">#Argos</a> team coached by Marc Trestman? <br><br>Just ask Jon Gruden. 🤷*♂️ <a href="https://t.co/icHSZzYyws">pic.twitter.com/icHSZzYyws</a></p>&mdash; Toronto Argonauts (@TorontoArgos) <a href="https://twitter.com/TorontoArgos/status/877149110331199488">June 20, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[paulwoods13]

Impressed that Gruden knew the name of our starting QB (altho he may have been coached on that point). I remember interviewing Joe Theismann in 1989 when Tracy Ham was tearing up the CFL; acting as if was all up to speed on the league, he referred to him as Travis Ham.

[ArgoGabe22]

Impressed that Gruden knew the name of our starting QB (altho he may have been coached on that point). I remember interviewing Joe Theismann in 1989 when Tracy Ham was tearing up the CFL; acting as if was all up to speed on the league, he referred to him as Travis Ham.

Gruden was the coach of the Raiders when Ray was at Sacramento State. California based team scouting California based college QB perhaps? The 49s did invite Ray to camp, so maybe Gruden remembers Ray and has somewhat followed his career?

[gilthethrill]

Gruden was the coach of the Raiders when Ray was at Sacramento State. California based team scouting California based college QB perhaps? The 49s did invite Ray to camp, so maybe Gruden remembers Ray and has somewhat followed his career?

I think Ray delivered potatoes chips to the grocery store Gruden shopped at. They would chat in the snack aisle.

[timlb01]

That is a great tweet. I just forwarded it to a bunch of people at work.

[jerrym]

Trestman said he sees Coombs both as a receiver and RB. I expect he will be mostly catching the ball as so far he hasn't shown much ability to break tackles.

[Rich]

That is a great tweet. I just forwarded it to a bunch of people at work.

I did too. I know it will make a lot of my friends who don't follow the Argos sit up and take notice. I've been saying for years that the League should make this kind of thing part of their marketing: getting NFL people to say how relatively good the CFL is. It would sway a lot of people. Canadians are funny that way. We always want our culture to be validated by others. When Steve Martin says what a great artist Lawren Harris was, or when Paul McCartney says what a great songwriter Ron Sexsmith is, people here goes crazy. Just imagine some big NFL coaches or GMs or players like Cam Wake or Ricky Williams looking into the camera and saying these CFL players are really good, you are really missing out if you're not watching them. Hundreds of thousands of casual fans would be intrigued.

[timlb01]

I did too. I know it will make a lot of my friends who don't follow the Argos sit up and take notice. I've been saying for years that the League should make this kind of thing part of their marketing: getting NFL people to say how relatively good the CFL is. It would sway a lot of people. Canadians are funny that way. We always want our culture to be validated by others. When Steve Martin says what a great artist Lawren Harris was, or when Paul McCartney says what a great songwriter Ron Sexsmith is, people here goes crazy. Just imagine some big NFL coaches or GMs or players like Cam Wake or Ricky Williams looking into the camera and saying these CFL players are really good, you are really missing out if you're not watching them. Hundreds of thousands of casual fans would be intrigued.


Agreed 100%. It is a shame so many people need validation like this. The league is great and unique. I would love to take a team like the Stamps and pit them head to head with any NFL team using CFL rules. People would be shocked and I think the Stamps may put a good licking on an NFL team.

[Tobin Rote]

I did too. I know it will make a lot of my friends who don't follow the Argos sit up and take notice. I've been saying for years that the League should make this kind of thing part of their marketing: getting NFL people to say how relatively good the CFL is. It would sway a lot of people. Canadians are funny that way. We always want our culture to be validated by others. When Steve Martin says what a great artist Lawren Harris was, or when Paul McCartney says what a great songwriter Ron Sexsmith is, people here goes crazy. Just imagine some big NFL coaches or GMs or players like Cam Wake or Ricky Williams looking into the camera and saying these CFL players are really good, you are really missing out if you're not watching them. Hundreds of thousands of casual fans would be intrigued.

Absolutely true... sadly.

["Issues"Mcgee]

I did too. I know it will make a lot of my friends who don't follow the Argos sit up and take notice. I've been saying for years that the League should make this kind of thing part of their marketing: getting NFL people to say how relatively good the CFL is. It would sway a lot of people. Canadians are funny that way. We always want our culture to be validated by others. When Steve Martin says what a great artist Lawren Harris was, or when Paul McCartney says what a great songwriter Ron Sexsmith is, people here goes crazy. Just imagine some big NFL coaches or GMs or players like Cam Wake or Ricky Williams looking into the camera and saying these CFL players are really good, you are really missing out if you're not watching them. Hundreds of thousands of casual fans would be intrigued.

You hit the nail on the head right there. Torontonians are definitely the biggest perpetrators of this attitude.

[ArgoZ]

Agreed 100%. It is a shame so many people need validation like this. The league is great and unique. I would love to take a team like the Stamps and pit them head to head with any NFL team using CFL rules. People would be shocked and I think the Stamps may put a good licking on an NFL team.

They would definitely be competitive and probably would win against some NFL teams. However, that would be completely unfair to said NFL team. Give ample time for that team to practice, adjust its roster and coaching to reflect the CFL game and they would beat the Stamps. As the saying goes "football is football". The talent in the CFL is incredible when you compare how many football players actually turn pro, but same can be said about the even harder to make NFL.

[Jayahre]

They would definitely be competitive and probably would win against some NFL teams. However, that would be completely unfair to said NFL team. Give ample time for that team to practice, adjust its roster and coaching to reflect the CFL game and they would beat the Stamps. As the saying goes "football is football". The talent in the CFL is incredible when you compare how many football players actually turn pro, but same can be said about the even harder to make NFL.

Head to head against the Stamps? but they aren't the Grey Cup champs!!
Besides none of the NFL players would know CFL rules, never played on a Canadian sized field with only 3 downs. The CFL also has TWO extra players on the field. You have to remember the majority of our players couldn't make NFL teams and we have a rule that states we have to play Canadians even if they are not as good as imports.
You will never convince NFL fans that the CFL is a great league.
Sadly, sports fans in Toronto don't see the CFL as major league and that will never change. Demographics have changed the millenials are not interested in the CFL and don't know the sport at all, the majority of Argo fans are older "baby" boomers and that group is getting smaller.
The Argos may get some "baby boomers" to come back that have abandoned the team, but don't count on 20-30 somethings.

Having said that and before people jump all over me, that's the way I see it.
But I do have my ticket to the game on Sunday, I will also be at the Ottawa home opener on Friday night.
I think the Ticats are overrated and an Argo win on Sunday.

[Neely2005]

Head to head against the Stamps? but they aren't the Grey Cup champs!!
Besides none of the NFL players would know CFL rules, never played on a Canadian sized field with only 3 downs. The CFL also has TWO extra players on the field. You have to remember the majority of our players couldn't make NFL teams and we have a rule that states we have to play Canadians even if they are not as good as imports.
You will never convince NFL fans that the CFL is a great league.
Sadly, sports fans in Toronto don't see the CFL as major league and that will never change. Demographics have changed the millenials are not interested in the CFL and don't know the sport at all, the majority of Argo fans are older "baby" boomers and that group is getting smaller.
The Argos may get some "baby boomers" to come back that have abandoned the team, but don't count on 20-30 somethings.

Having said that and before people jump all over me, that's the way I see it.
But I do have my ticket to the game on Sunday, I will also be at the Ottawa home opener on Friday night.
I think the Ticats are overrated and an Argo win on Sunday.

We see plenty of kids and families at the Argonauts games and Tailgates.

[OV Argo]

Head to head against the Stamps? but they aren't the Grey Cup champs!!
Besides none of the NFL players would know CFL rules, never played on a Canadian sized field with only 3 downs. The CFL also has TWO extra players on the field. You have to remember the majority of our players couldn't make NFL teams and we have a rule that states we have to play Canadians even if they are not as good as imports.
You will never convince NFL fans that the CFL is a great league.
Sadly, sports fans in Toronto don't see the CFL as major league and that will never change. Demographics have changed the millenials are not interested in the CFL and don't know the sport at all, the majority of Argo fans are older "baby" boomers and that group is getting smaller.
The Argos may get some "baby boomers" to come back that have abandoned the team, but don't count on 20-30 somethings.

Having said that and before people jump all over me, that's the way I see it.
But I do have my ticket to the game on Sunday, I will also be at the Ottawa home opener on Friday night.
I think the Ticats are overrated and an Argo win on Sunday.


Just FYI - Ottawa won the GC last season, and they did so playing/starting more of those Canadian players - that your type has been told are inferior - than all other CFL teams.

Some people being told cliched fairy tales about the CFL and swallowing/buying it, is part of the problem the CFL faces in some parts. In Ottawa - where fans have responded to the return of CFL ball with sold-out RedBlacks game, I see a very large number of younger fans 20-30 range - the demographic that supposedly is not interested in the CFL. They, combined with the older CFL fans or baby boomer group, make for a SRO Lansdowne. Could that group get interested in the Argos deep in wannabeland? = I believe enough could - from such a huge population base to draw from - and Argo games could be SRO consistently. Will take a smart & strong marketing effort. Tough sell maybe, but do-able.

[timlb01]

They would definitely be competitive and probably would win against some NFL teams. However, that would be completely unfair to said NFL team. Give ample time for that team to practice, adjust its roster and coaching to reflect the CFL game and they would beat the Stamps. As the saying goes "football is football". The talent in the CFL is incredible when you compare how many football players actually turn pro, but same can be said about the even harder to make NFL.

I am a strong believer that the game is different enough that you need a different player especially at the "non-skilled" positions. Even at QB I think it takes a different style and mentality. Some would adapt but linebacker, DL and OL I think very different. Lots of NFLers have come up and I cannot name one guy that was dominate but you can name some that were here and went down to the NFL that became big stars. Cam Wake for example right now.

I agree if the NFL adopted all of the CFL rules the outcome would change. I believe the 96 and 97 Argos could have beaten anyone at that time as long as the played with the Canadian rules.

[RB957]

You hit the nail on the head right there. Torontonians are definitely the biggest perpetrators of this attitude.

The Ottawa Redblacks have proven you can attract a younger fan base. Their game day experience is amazing. As far as Toronto, let's not worry about all the CFL haters and sports snobs in this city. I have said it before - we will never be able to compete for attention with the Leafs, Jays, Raptors so don't worry about it. All we have to do is find about 8,000 people willing to give it a shot and we have a sell-out. this is realistic and do-able. Go Argos!!

[Stevoman]

I agree if the NFL adopted all of the CFL rules the outcome would change. I believe the 96 and 97 Argos could have beaten anyone at that time as long as the played with the Canadian rules.

I agree with this and say it often. Most people think I'm crazy but those who know, know what I mean..

[Will]

Anyone hear anything new about Matt Black? An article by Rush or high-pitched Frank suggested he was hurt.

[doubleblue]

I am a strong believer that the game is different enough that you need a different player especially at the "non-skilled" positions. Even at QB I think it takes a different style and mentality. Some would adapt but linebacker, DL and OL I think very different. Lots of NFLers have come up and I cannot name one guy that was dominate but you can name some that were here and went down to the NFL that became big stars. Cam Wake for example right now.

I agree if the NFL adopted all of the CFL rules the outcome would change. I believe the 96 and 97 Argos could have beaten anyone at that time as long as the played with the Canadian rules.

I remember a newspaper article back then where a Canadian Kicker (Klaus Wilmeyer ?), who was playing for the Super Bowl Champs, was asked how he thought the 97 Argos would fare against the SF 49's. He said "with Doug Flutie playing for the Argos I wouldn't like our chances". The players know. But Flutie IMO would have made many CFL teams very difficult for a NFL team to beat. By that time (in the mid 90's) he really had things figured out, and on the bigger CFL field he was almost unstoppable.

[1971GreyCup]

Toronto Star, Damien Cox with a current assessment of the Toronto Argonauts return to relevance. Not bad, considering how he's done hatchet jobs in the past.

http://startouch.thestar.com/screens/4ca2acf7-1ce0-483e-9e22-7eae9a189ddc%7C_0.html

There’s the Argonauts as a competitive football operation.
Then there’s the Argonauts and their “situation.”
These two things are linked, certainly, but they’re also separate to some degree.
This much is clear. If the Larry Tanenbaum/Bell-owned football team produces a record and quality of performance even remotely as horrible as last season, there will be nothing to talk about on either front.
No one will care about the Argos, and few will trickle down to BMO Field to watch them play.
Conversely, the team’s profile in the city has deteriorated to such an extent that even if Jim Popp and Marc Trestman stage a dramatic turnaround immediately, nothing may change and the Argos may still be ignored.
But it’s worth a try, right? Or should we say, worth another try.
It was back in 1999 that American businessman Sherwood Schwarz bought the football team from Interbrew, brought in CFL warhorse J.I. Albrecht to run the operation and later recruited theatre entrepreneur Garth Drabinsky to boost the team’s image.
What an unmitigated disaster. Albrecht growled at every media person in town and brought in the similarly grim John Huard to coach. Huard lasted eight games and exited after a 51-4 home-field loss to B.C. Drabinsky promised the moon and tried to organize wet T-shirt contests, but generated nothing. Schwarz, with the CFL head office lambasting the Argos for “total incompetence” and with his family begging him to stop putting millions into the team, simply walked away in 2003.
That seemed to be the low point in Argo history. Lower than a salamander’s belly low.
The combined efforts of David Cynamon, Howard Sokolowski and Keith Pelley brought it back to a significant degree. But double-dipping David Braley decided he wanted to own both the Argos and B.C. Lions at the same time and drove the team into the ditch again.
Which is where we are. In the ditch. Again.
Media estimates of the actual crowd size for a BMO Field pre-season game between the Argos and Montreal Alouettes earlier this month ranged as low as 2,000 fans. TWO THOUSAND?? Even Albrecht couldn’t scare off customers to that degree.
Nobody’s quite sure how many folks will be on hand for Sunday afternoon’s home opener against Hamilton. The Ottawa Redblacks won the Grey Cup in that stadium last November, and if the Argos need inspiration they can certainly look to the Redblacks, who successfully resuscitated football in the nation’s capital when it looked dead, deader and extremely dead.
The effort begins with Popp and Trestman, who brought football glory to Montreal. Popp’s a North Carolinian with proven ability as a recruiter and pitchman. He looked like a football institution in Montreal under owner Bob Wetenhall, but that all went sour and now he’s here.
Trestman was 59-31 with two Grey Cups with the Als before heading south in 2013 for a crack at coaching the Chicago Bears and more money. Now he’s back, and not because he did so well down south. But his CFL reputation is superb, and Popp has spoken confidently about the quality of the team’s training camp and pre-season play. What broke under Scott Milanovich last season may well be repaired under Trestman.
It’s hard to comment on the level of the team’s talent, because there are so few established, veteran players. If you walked the streets of Toronto, you might get a few folks who could name 37-year-old Ricky Ray as quarterback of the Argonauts, but beyond that there are no marquee names. Another veteran quarterback, Drew Willy, was acquired at significant cost last season, but he was cut in training camp. S.J. Green might have been a big star on the Quebec football scene, but nobody knows him in Toronto yet.
Truth be told, there isn’t a single name that could fix this problem and produce a flood of new interest and new Argo customers. It’s got to be incremental. An improved team in the weak CFL East. Some consistency on the roster. An entertaining offence, hopefully led by an injury-free Ray. This is a five-year project.
Within the larger context of a Toronto sporting landscape that includes winning NHL, NBA and MLS rosters, plus a Blue Jays squad that went to the playoffs the last two years, there is no easy answer for the Argos, and absolutely no guarantee they can recapture any slice of the sports business pie even if they do everything right.
Once the CFL could say at the very least it had a diehard, rabid fan base in Toronto that was distinctly different from the more staid loyalists of the other franchises, but now even that reputation has been usurped by Toronto FC with its Red Patch Boys and various flag-waving, singing supporters groups.
You can say what’s been done in Ottawa could be done in Toronto.
But there’s a great deal more competition for the sporting dollar in the GTA, which makes the path back to relevance far more cluttered.
As well, media coverage of the Argos is skimpy and inconsistent. TSN (owned by Bell) is dedicated to comprehensive coverage of the league, but beyond that, newspaper, radio, television and online coverage of the Argos is not nearly what it used to be.
Did dwindling crowds produce less coverage, or did less coverage produce dwindling crowds? Or did money-squeezed media operations have fewer resources to cover the Argos which then helped produce smaller audiences? You can argue all sides of this, but it doesn’t really matter. The fact remains that the Argos have to somehow wedge themselves back into the larger conversation through improved quality of their product and an experience at BMO Field that makes people want to come back and tell their friends.
Popp and Trestman did great things in Montreal. But this isn’t Montreal. Toronto is a dead zone for the CFL, a commissioner-less league that has to be concerned that the Grey Cup game last fall generated 3.6 million viewers, down from previous years.
For the Argos, it’s going to take a great deal of time and sustained effort to change their lot. A great deal more than manufactured tailgate parties. It will take at least as long to improve the Argo “situation” as it took Braley to smother whatever enthusiasm was generated in the seven years under Cynamon and Sokolowski.
Start with baby steps. Start with an improved team that can win a few home games. Until that happens, there’s really nothing to talk about.

[Will]

The depth chart for this game is up, and by extension the 6-game list which consists of:

Devon Wylie
McLeod Bethel-Thompson
Matt Black
Mason Woods
Alan-Michael Cash
Daryl Waud

Of note:

- The experiment with Jermaine Gabriel at CB seems to have only been a pre-season thing as he is listed at safety. The secondary is Owusu-Ansah; Sears; Gabriel; Mitchell and Murray (which makes me nervous because I thought Murray was a HB or LB and not a CB)

- Ball, Woods and Vaughan are the linebackers

- Victor Butler appears to have won the DE spot opposite Lemon.

- Brandon Washington won the LT job backed up by Jamal Campbell.

- The receivers are Posey, Green, Coombs, Edwards and Fuller.

- Fajardo backs up.

- Chandler Worthy returning kicks.

[Neely2005]

Toronto Star, Damien Cox with a current assessment of the Toronto Argonauts return to relevance. Not bad, considering how he's done hatchet jobs in the past.

http://startouch.thestar.com/screens/4ca2acf7-1ce0-483e-9e22-7eae9a189ddc%7C_0.html

There’s the Argonauts as a competitive football operation.
Then there’s the Argonauts and their “situation.”
These two things are linked, certainly, but they’re also separate to some degree.
This much is clear. If the Larry Tanenbaum/Bell-owned football team produces a record and quality of performance even remotely as horrible as last season, there will be nothing to talk about on either front.
No one will care about the Argos, and few will trickle down to BMO Field to watch them play.
Conversely, the team’s profile in the city has deteriorated to such an extent that even if Jim Popp and Marc Trestman stage a dramatic turnaround immediately, nothing may change and the Argos may still be ignored.
But it’s worth a try, right? Or should we say, worth another try.
It was back in 1999 that American businessman Sherwood Schwarz bought the football team from Interbrew, brought in CFL warhorse J.I. Albrecht to run the operation and later recruited theatre entrepreneur Garth Drabinsky to boost the team’s image.
What an unmitigated disaster. Albrecht growled at every media person in town and brought in the similarly grim John Huard to coach. Huard lasted eight games and exited after a 51-4 home-field loss to B.C. Drabinsky promised the moon and tried to organize wet T-shirt contests, but generated nothing. Schwarz, with the CFL head office lambasting the Argos for “total incompetence” and with his family begging him to stop putting millions into the team, simply walked away in 2003.
That seemed to be the low point in Argo history. Lower than a salamander’s belly low.
The combined efforts of David Cynamon, Howard Sokolowski and Keith Pelley brought it back to a significant degree. But double-dipping David Braley decided he wanted to own both the Argos and B.C. Lions at the same time and drove the team into the ditch again.
Which is where we are. In the ditch. Again.
Media estimates of the actual crowd size for a BMO Field pre-season game between the Argos and Montreal Alouettes earlier this month ranged as low as 2,000 fans. TWO THOUSAND?? Even Albrecht couldn’t scare off customers to that degree.
Nobody’s quite sure how many folks will be on hand for Sunday afternoon’s home opener against Hamilton. The Ottawa Redblacks won the Grey Cup in that stadium last November, and if the Argos need inspiration they can certainly look to the Redblacks, who successfully resuscitated football in the nation’s capital when it looked dead, deader and extremely dead.
The effort begins with Popp and Trestman, who brought football glory to Montreal. Popp’s a North Carolinian with proven ability as a recruiter and pitchman. He looked like a football institution in Montreal under owner Bob Wetenhall, but that all went sour and now he’s here.
Trestman was 59-31 with two Grey Cups with the Als before heading south in 2013 for a crack at coaching the Chicago Bears and more money. Now he’s back, and not because he did so well down south. But his CFL reputation is superb, and Popp has spoken confidently about the quality of the team’s training camp and pre-season play. What broke under Scott Milanovich last season may well be repaired under Trestman.
It’s hard to comment on the level of the team’s talent, because there are so few established, veteran players. If you walked the streets of Toronto, you might get a few folks who could name 37-year-old Ricky Ray as quarterback of the Argonauts, but beyond that there are no marquee names. Another veteran quarterback, Drew Willy, was acquired at significant cost last season, but he was cut in training camp. S.J. Green might have been a big star on the Quebec football scene, but nobody knows him in Toronto yet.
Truth be told, there isn’t a single name that could fix this problem and produce a flood of new interest and new Argo customers. It’s got to be incremental. An improved team in the weak CFL East. Some consistency on the roster. An entertaining offence, hopefully led by an injury-free Ray. This is a five-year project.
Within the larger context of a Toronto sporting landscape that includes winning NHL, NBA and MLS rosters, plus a Blue Jays squad that went to the playoffs the last two years, there is no easy answer for the Argos, and absolutely no guarantee they can recapture any slice of the sports business pie even if they do everything right.
Once the CFL could say at the very least it had a diehard, rabid fan base in Toronto that was distinctly different from the more staid loyalists of the other franchises, but now even that reputation has been usurped by Toronto FC with its Red Patch Boys and various flag-waving, singing supporters groups.
You can say what’s been done in Ottawa could be done in Toronto.
But there’s a great deal more competition for the sporting dollar in the GTA, which makes the path back to relevance far more cluttered.
As well, media coverage of the Argos is skimpy and inconsistent. TSN (owned by Bell) is dedicated to comprehensive coverage of the league, but beyond that, newspaper, radio, television and online coverage of the Argos is not nearly what it used to be.
Did dwindling crowds produce less coverage, or did less coverage produce dwindling crowds? Or did money-squeezed media operations have fewer resources to cover the Argos which then helped produce smaller audiences? You can argue all sides of this, but it doesn’t really matter. The fact remains that the Argos have to somehow wedge themselves back into the larger conversation through improved quality of their product and an experience at BMO Field that makes people want to come back and tell their friends.
Popp and Trestman did great things in Montreal. But this isn’t Montreal. Toronto is a dead zone for the CFL, a commissioner-less league that has to be concerned that the Grey Cup game last fall generated 3.6 million viewers, down from previous years.
For the Argos, it’s going to take a great deal of time and sustained effort to change their lot. A great deal more than manufactured tailgate parties. It will take at least as long to improve the Argo “situation” as it took Braley to smother whatever enthusiasm was generated in the seven years under Cynamon and Sokolowski.
Start with baby steps. Start with an improved team that can win a few home games. Until that happens, there’s really nothing to talk about.

Why is everyone taking shots at the Tailgates? We enjoy them and like the fact that they're Not full of drunk idiots like in Buffalo.

[Argofan_1000]

I remember Frank Kush when he was with Hamilton then returned to the NFL. Question was why he was not having the same success as he did in Canada - said it was because the Tiger Cats were a much better team then the Colts.

1960's CFL we were 2 wins 8 losses vs NFL. This is when the CFL teams were only allowed to carry a small number of Americans. I guess the question is, has the CFL narrowed the gap in talent between the 2 leagues since the 60's? A very good or great CFL team playing an NFL team for 1 game? 1/2 and 1/2 rules, we all know who will want to prove something. would it be 1972 for all the NFL followers?

Coach when he was asked about Ray and Cutler, he was very diplomatic but we all know what he thought. Ray is the much better QB. wouldn't the CFL DB's and LB's think that 1/2 of the difficulty is removed playing NFL rules?

I would like to see an NFL game on a CFL field and a CFL game on an NFL field. Just science, no other reason

[timlb01]

I remember Frank Kush when he was with Hamilton then returned to the NFL. Question was why he was not having the same success as he did in Canada - said it was because the Tiger Cats were a much better team then the Colts.

1960's CFL we were 2 wins 8 losses vs NFL. This is when the CFL teams were only allowed to carry a small number of Americans. I guess the question is, has the CFL narrowed the gap in talent between the 2 leagues since the 60's? A very good or great CFL team playing an NFL team for 1 game? 1/2 and 1/2 rules, we all know who will want to prove something. would it be 1972 for all the NFL followers?

Coach when he was asked about Ray and Cutler, he was very diplomatic but we all know what he thought. Ray is the much better QB. wouldn't the CFL DB's and LB's think that 1/2 of the difficulty is removed playing NFL rules?

I would like to see an NFL game on a CFL field and a CFL game on an NFL field. Just science, no other reason

I would love to see it too. I will not happen because the NFL have way too much to lose if they cannot dominate with either rules. Imagine what this wouled do for the CFL. I have often thought that someone now a days should come out and do a Leo Cahill. It would create a lot of good publicity.

[R.J]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Download the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Argos?src=hash">#Argos</a> depth chart for this Sunday&#39;s home opener vs. <a href="https://twitter.com/Ticats">@Ticats</a>.<br><br>🗒 » <a href="https://t.co/nyjx2tUMaG">https://t.co/nyjx2tUMaG</a><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFLKickoff?src=hash">#CFLKickoff</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFL?src=hash">#CFL</a> <a href="https://t.co/ElJrCHaz3G">pic.twitter.com/ElJrCHaz3G</a></p>&mdash; Toronto Argonauts (@TorontoArgos) <a href="https://twitter.com/TorontoArgos/status/878637290301607936">June 24, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Tomorrow&#39;s season-opening lineup vs. <a href="https://twitter.com/TorontoArgos">@torontoargos</a>.<br><br>DEPTH CHARTS &gt; <a href="https://t.co/u2ZF6QXygP">https://t.co/u2ZF6QXygP</a><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Ticats?src=hash">#Ticats</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFL?src=hash">#CFL</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/tphcanada">@tphcanada</a> <a href="https://t.co/X8fXdh8YRK">pic.twitter.com/X8fXdh8YRK</a></p>&mdash; Hamilton Tiger-Cats (@Ticats) <a href="https://twitter.com/Ticats/status/878631925166080000">June 24, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[OV Argo]

<twitterwidget class="twitter-tweet twitter-tweet-rendered" id="twitter-widget-0" style="position: static; visibility: visible; display: block; transform: rotate(0deg); max-width: 100%; width: 500px; min-width: 220px; margin-top: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px;" data-tweet-id="878637290301607936"></twitterwidget>
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Once again - same as the last exhibition game - that Ticat depth chart will not be do-able in a regular season game; because it shows only 6 NI/National starters: 3 O-linemen + receiver Jones on offence; plus only 2 on D - Laurent at DT and Stephen at safety. I bet they will get to 7 by starting/ playing a NI DE - between vet Capicciotti and 1st round draft pick McCough ?

Of course Kenty & Tillspin would love to get away with playing less than 7; damn that nuisance "ratio problem".

:shhhh:<iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: none;" title="Twitter analytics iframe"></iframe><iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: none;" title="Twitter analytics iframe"></iframe>

[R.J]

Once again - same as the last exhibition game - that Ticat depth chart will not be do-able in a regular season game; because it shows only 6 NI/National starters: 3 O-linemen + receiver Jones on offence; plus only 2 on D - Laurent at DT and Stephen at safety. I bet they will get to 7 by starting/ playing a NI DE - between vet Capicciotti and 1st round draft pick McCough ?

Of course Kenty & Tillspin would love to get away with playing less than 7; damn that nuisance "ratio problem".

:shhhh:<iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: none;" title="Twitter analytics iframe"></iframe><iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: none;" title="Twitter analytics iframe"></iframe>
FWIW, Tillman has said multiple times that he'd like to see the ratio increase.

[OV Argo]

FWIW, Tillman has said multiple times that he'd like to see the ratio increase.


Total B$hite from a GOB clown.

[Neely2005]

Saw this on the CP24 News Ticker yesterday afternoon:

Tickets available for Sunday's Argonauts Home Opener.

Nice to see Bell starting to make use of its media muscle.

[paulwoods13]

By my count we need to sit two INTs. I'm guessing one d-linemen ( wynn or Tuggle) and either Plummer or Wilder. We have five INT receivers listed: 4 starting plus Worthy who's listed as our primary returner. Can't always believe the chart but I don't think any of those five will sit.

[Wobbler]

I'm curious to see how cautious we are with Green. If his health is still a bit uncertain Worthy/Ralph/Noel might get some of his reps, but if we think he's 100% it would be hard to take him off the field.

[argotom]

Today's key is for Ray to stay clean in the pocket and try to release the ball quicker, with a little more zip on the ball.

[Nob]

I'm very excited - I'm going to be at the game today. I lucked out to be in town for business. After spending the last 8 years on the left coast this is only my second game in Toronto during this time, and the first where I will be in BMO. Outside of the weather I can't think of a better way to inaugarate myself to the new facility.

I'll be in 227, row 25, seat 12......or at least until I find better open spots to sit!!

[gilthethrill]

I notice on the 6 game injury list, two big names in Waud and Cash are listed. Any idea how serious they are hurt and what are their respective injuries?

[argolio]

I notice on the 6 game injury list, two big names in Waud and Cash are listed. Any idea how serious they are hurt and what are their respective injuries?Waud's been in a walking cast for a couple of weeks. Not sure about Cash.

[ArgoRavi]

Waud's been in a walking cast for a couple of weeks. Not sure about Cash.

Waud really has had a lot of trouble staying healthy, hasn't he? It is a shame because he has such great potential.

[Wobbler]

I really like Chandler Worthy as a returner. He's nice and quick and makes very good decisions - like killing extra time before conceding the single point in the first quarter.

[R.J]

If SJ can stay healthy I think it's pretty clear that he's returned to form.

Still too many checkdowns for my liking,but I haven't seen that many deep balls thrown in a long time. Good thing it's Trestman calling the plays.

For awhile there I thought Milanovich was calling the offensive plays for Hamilton. Hamilton could be in big trouble this season with their lackluster defense - is Jordan Younger their db coach ? Lol.

[Wobbler]

Wow. I missed a couple of series, but what a game by Ray (one bad pass by my count) and Green (who looks like his old self). Fewer penalties and kicking fiascos would have been nice, but it was still never really competitive.

It's going to be a fun year!

[R.J]

Wow. I missed a couple of series, but what a game by Ray (one bad pass by my count) and Green (who looks like his old self). Fewer penalties and kicking fiascos would have been nice, but it was still never really competitive.

It's going to be a fun year!
I love how unhappy Trestman looked after each penalty, and I undoubtedly think he'll make a point to fix the problem during film room

[paulwoods13]

If SJ can stay healthy I think it's pretty clear that he's returned to form.

Still too many checkdowns for my liking,but I haven't seen that many deep balls thrown in a long time. Good thing it's Trestman calling the plays.

For awhile there I thought Milanovich was calling the offensive plays for Hamilton. Hamilton could be in big trouble this season with their lackluster defense - is Jordan Younger their db coach ? Lol.

Ricky comoleted 80% of his passes (with three dropped) for 506 yards and you are complaining about too many checkdowns? Seriously?

[Stevoman]

Wow that was a fun one! Only complaint is the lack of 7's when they had the chance. I loved watching the speed of the defence and the aggressiveness of the offence. Such a contrast to the season opener from last year.

[R.J]

Ricky comoleted 80% of his passes (with three dropped) for 506 yards and you are complaining about too many checkdowns? Seriously?
Did I say Ray played poorly ? No

Completion percentage literally means nothing to me. I still remember when Ricky broke the record against Winnipeg - nobody ever mentions that 90% of his passes were swings and checkdowns, but whatever.

Just goes to show IMO how much better a coach and offensive mind Trestman is.

Also, if you take such issue with my posts, you can easily put me on your ignore list.

[Wobbler]

13.6K is not a good opening day crowd. Hopefully success like this will be noticed, and boost future attendance.

[R.J]

13.6K is not a good opening day crowd. Hopefully success like this will be noticed, and boost future attendance.Long rebuild awaits this franchise I'm afraid.

[timlb01]

Great game apart from the lack of buts in the seats. The team has some fine tuning but amazing considering when Popp and Trestman came on board. Good to see that we will be competitive at the least. Fix the field goals and a couple of drops imagine how many points we would have put up.

[gilthethrill]

Still love watching Elliott spin the ball after a 7 yard gain trailing by 15. I hate Luke Tasker so much that I love him. The front 7 looked dominant today, causing Zac to go the sideline shouting at Austin more than once. Marcus Ball is not suffering from NFL itis. Ricky Ray is not washed up.

[ArgoRavi]

Great game apart from the lack of buts in the seats. The team has some fine tuning but amazing considering when Popp and Trestman came on board. Good to see that we will be competitive at the least. Fix the field goals and a couple of drops imagine how many points we would have put up.

This should have been a 43-7 game if you factor in the two drops by Fuller and Posey in the endzone in the first half. 43-7 would have been representative of the play too as the Argos simply dominated from start to finish.

Being able to bounce back from adversity was what I liked most about this win. Fuller and Posey both rebounded from their drops with some terrific catches and plays. The team, as a whole, bounced back immediately to start the second half after the disastrous end to the first half. This is going to be a fun team to watch this year.

[Will]

Both projected starting halfbacks for the Tiger-Cats were out and it showed. Ray threw for 500+ yards, the Argos had three 100 yard receivers and Edwards had 78. Victor Butler and Laing both had 2 sacks each.

Overall, hopefully they can get Whitaker and Wilder going a little more next time and eliminate some of those dropsies.

Still much to be encouraged about.

[Argofan_1000]

quite noisy and a lot of fun for that size of crowd. Like the drum line. I do have to say that the Argos this year look quite good. Players I would say look to be the best athletes in the city, no question about that. We will see if Toronto was watching on TV

[Will]

Long rebuild awaits this franchise I'm afraid.

Pretty sad.

I'd say more, but if you don't have anything nice to say then don't say it all.

[Topshelf]

Great job by the coaching staff
Great job by the players
Horrible job by the marketing team, if there is one
I'm convinced they are pumping in noise, because that crowd was far too small to be heard
They had an entire off season, their biggest rival, and no in town competition.
No point going on after every game about crowd size, but opening day I think is a good one to take notice of. Even when the jays were mediocre, opening day was a sellout.

[paulwoods13]

Did I say Ray played poorly ? No

Completion percentage literally means nothing to me. I still remember when Ricky broke the record against Winnipeg - nobody ever mentions that 90% of his passes were swings and checkdowns, but whatever.

Just goes to show IMO how much better a coach and offensive mind Trestman is.

Also, if you take such issue with my posts, you can easily put me on your ignore list.

Two questions: how many checkdowns were there today? And how many is too many?

[1971GreyCup]

Excellent start to 2017. Trestman has a high tempo offense is designed to play to Ricky Ray's strength and addition of receivers SJGreen, Posy and Edwards on offense were an immediate hit!

Woods and Ball additions to the front seven, made for an immediate dominant in force. I would add that Cory Chamberlin's aggressive defense scheme was impressive. I loved the dominant defenses of days gone by.

Next week's crowd number will be concerning with BC coming to town. The tailgate pad was a quarter of the size of last year, and Shipyard is now a DJ. Tailgate experience is enjoyable, but not user friendly. At 12:20 I asked why we still weren't let in and there was no answer for me. A very labour intensive event. From the gate on until parking, there were a half dozen people managing us for the 10 yard drive.

The Argos have a powerful social media presence and a very good game day experience to sell. This positive week's experience will bring back the 11,000 Argo fans who attended, but we'll lose the 2,500 Ticats fans today for a couple of months. The team had better get their ticket sellers in the community and start selling single games tickets, ten at a time. They should have been in the community selling in December, not July.

One hundred sales of ten will add ten percent more to the crowd. I am pretty sure most fans could sell a thousand single game tickets. But that's not our job.

Maybe get to twenty thousand by the end of the year. With this quality product, those single game attendees will become Season Ticket holders.

Today, the season opener 2017 drew only 60% ot the numbers for 2016. This "it's going take a long time to turn this around" mantra is nothing but BS. An excuse for failing. A way to lower expectations.

No other theatre or musical performance can afford to play in empty venues. You better believe that ticket brokers, street vendors are out in the market working until the venues are full. Do it the old fashion way.

[Argo57]

All things Argonaut have been improved this season, improved talent, coaching and best of all effort from the players.
Well done!!
A lot of fun watching at BMO today and oh yeah, we beat Hamilton!!!

[Mightygoose]

Very entertaining game aside from the final 3 minutes which is always a crawl. Ray to Green looks like a formidable combo so far. If they both stay healthy that's a dangerous weapon they have.

As far as a crowd size goes, don't really have any answers. I've seen the east side worse but the loss of STHs in the west to a lesser extend the endzones are being felt. The group section in the upper east side looked better than I expected since there are no STHs or single game tickets being sold row 6 onwards.

At what point does the team just list the attendance N/A so it doesn't become the story after every home game. Let those in charge of selling concern themselves with the numbers.

[Scooter McCray]

At the game today. What a 180 degree change from last season on the field. I can't believe what Popp & Trestman have done so quickly. The team deserves a front office that works as hard and prepares as hard because 13000 demonstrates to me the lack of effort to sell and market this team in the off season. Ownership deserves much blame as well. Bell media does little to nothing to cover the very team they own. What are they afraid of?

[Will]

Very entertaining game aside from the final 3 minutes which is always a crawl. Ray to Green looks like a formidable combo so far. If they both stay healthy that's a dangerous weapon they have.

As far as a crowd size goes, don't really have any answers. I've seen the east side worse but the loss of STHs in the west to a lesser extend the endzones are being felt. The group section in the upper east side looked better than I expected since there are no STHs or single game tickets being sold row 6 onwards.

At what point does the team just list the attendance N/A so it doesn't become the story after every home game. Let those in charge of selling concern themselves with the numbers.

Media would still draw their own conclusions.

[dmont]

.

I only got to watch the first half, but that was a lot of fun. I can't remember the last time I saw an Argo QB finding open receivers so frequently. I'm sure that's due to a cohesive O-line, improved receivers, and injuries in the opposing defence.

Really enjoyed seeing our receivers winning their one-on-one matchups.

Defense was lights-out. Really noticed Ball, Sears, Liang, and Butler. I hope Mitchell is ok, poor guy.

Was nice to see Woodson get some playing time on D.

Oh please oh please let Ricky and SJ stay healthy...

I'm looking forward to attending the BC game.

[ArgoGabe22]

Still too many checkdowns for my liking

500 yards and zero INTS. If this becomes the norm then I'm all for it. Ray throws deep if its there and checkdowns instead of forcing it and turning it over.

[R.J]

500 yards and zero INTS. If this becomes the norm then I'm all for it. Ray throws deep if its there and checkdowns instead of forcing it and turning it over.
Let's not pretend that Posey, Edwards, and especially Green didn't make some great catches for Ray today, and that the Ticats had their starting secondary today (which they didn't btw).
Trestman out coached Austin, and he along with Ray (the entire team for that matter) deserve kudos. Night and day IMO over Milanovich.
Anyone else catch how pissed off Collaros was at Austin today ?

[Will]

Let's not pretend that Posey, Edwards, and especially Green didn't make some great catches for Ray today, and that the Ticats had their starting secondary today (which they didn't btw).
Trestman out coached Austin, and he along with Ray (the entire team for that matter) deserve kudos. Night and day IMO over Milanovich.
Anyone else catch how pissed off Collaros was at Austin today ?

I saw Collaros come to the bench very upset after Sears sacked him.

[doubleblue]

13.6K is not a good opening day crowd. Hopefully success like this will be noticed, and boost future attendance.

I thought it looked like more. Quite a few Minor Football teams, maybe they weren't paying customers.

[Stevoman]

This thread is too short for what a great game that was and so I'm posting again. I think that was the most enjoyable performance by the Argos since at least some time in 2015. Great start to the season!

[ArgoGabe22]

One thing I haven't read yet is the fact we could've blown out the Ticats by more if we couldve capitalized more. Hijrahullah was half of our scoring.

[ArgoGabe22]

Let's not pretend that Posey, Edwards, and especially Green didn't make some great catches for Ray today, and that the Ticats had their starting secondary today (which they didn't btw).
Trestman out coached Austin, and he along with Ray (the entire team for that matter) deserve kudos. Night and day IMO over Milanovich.
Anyone else catch how pissed off Collaros was at Austin today ?

Ray still put the ball in the perfect spot for them to make those plays. If not, easily could've been picked off.

["Issues"Mcgee]

Ray threw 506 yards despite being robbed of two perfectly placed touchdown passes.

[Wobbler]

Let's not pretend that Posey, Edwards, and especially Green didn't make some great catches for Ray today, and that the Ticats had their starting secondary today (which they didn't btw).
Trestman out coached Austin, and he along with Ray (the entire team for that matter) deserve kudos. Night and day IMO over Milanovich.
Anyone else catch how pissed off Collaros was at Austin today ?
I don't think the coaching strategy was noticeably different, but Trestman may have done a better job of getting the players ready.

To me, the big difference was in the receiving corps. Green was able to catch anything regardless of whether he was open, and the rest of the guys were able to get open (unlike last year's group). Ray never changes, but the effectiveness of the RC let him throw more productively (and get the ball out quicker) today.

[paulwoods13]

Let's not pretend that Posey, Edwards, and especially Green didn't make some great catches for Ray today, and that the Ticats had their starting secondary today (which they didn't btw).

We just witnessed one of the greatest games a quarterback has played in this league -- ever -- and your first comment is "too many checkdowns" and then it's "yeah but his receivers made great plays and they were up against a lousy defence." Unbelievable.

[mchesher03]

[QUOTE=paulwoods13;112032]We just witnessed one of the greatest games a quarterback has played in this league

Paul is spot on, this was one of the top games of Ricky’s career. No chance there was too many checkdowns, how many times did he throw quick hitters over the middle for 12-15 yards? A whole whack of times. Sure his receivers made some unbelievable catches (esp. SJ Green – wow!) but they let him down a few times too. All in all, pretty hard to complain about Ricky Ray after that one.

If we’re going to play the “ticats secondary wasn’t their starters” card, then what’s their excuse for their putrid offence yesterday? Our D looked very very impressive.

All in all I was very impressed. I won’t get expectations up after one game, so I’ll say at the very least we’re going to have a much more entertaining season than last!

[mchesher03]

Maybe it deserves a separate thread but is it too early to start a Jeff Reinboldt firing watch?

Not once or twice but Three times (!) there was more than one ticat defender screaming, waving their arms, etc. at Reinboldt to call the play in. They were fortunate the Argos didn’t just audible and throw a bomb on those plays when the ticats were obviously in disarray. I’d leave a one off but I’ve never seen this happen so often in one game, it was odd. There was also one instance where the ticats d was running onto the field almost too late entirely, the argos were getting to the line already. I found that odd too. Regardless, ol’ whiny kent Austin can’t be too happy with Reinboldt today.

On another fun note, what’s this talk about Zach Collaros lipping off to Kent during the game? Zach sure was pissy – was great to see our D setting the tempo and taking it to them.

[1971GreyCup]

Enjoyed the post game show on TSN1050. Marc Trestman also holds a great press conference.

TSN1050 immediately cut away to a canned ESPN show. We turned to TSN1150 and got the rest of our post game information. Did savour the Ticats panicking too.

My question is, once you've got the infrastructure in place for a radio show, what exactly is the savings to shortened the experience?

They're still taken one step forward and two steps back? Lots to be excited about after the game. Most fans that drove are sitting in their cars, wanting the post game analysis. Shut that down immediately. It's a fact that most advertising is targeted at post-buyer behaviour. Used to reinforce their purchase decisions, right?

This franchise is finally back when the seats are full! Takeaway the elephant in the room (attendance) and the Toronto Star lead sports story is excellent professional football played in Toronto yesterday. Followed by a story about a Jays win. Followed by a story about the Leafs. We are very close to the return of football prominence in Toronto folks.

Also, I can see the Argos defense developing a real personality and quickly! Very well coached, with talent and swagger. They'll play very hard at home. Outstanding!!

[doubleblue]

Ray still put the ball in the perfect spot for them to make those plays. If not, easily could've been picked off.

I agree, there was tight coverage on some of those catches, but Ricky threw the ball almost perfectly to allow those tall receivers to catch it. And he throws such a soft ball too. Got to love it. No wonder Trestman made him the starter the day he was hired, he knew what he was getting.

[Jon Gonzo]

Entertaining, fast, aggressive and hard hitting. I love it! Great start.

You can always find negatives, but I think we ought to savour this win. There won't be a "W" out there every-week. It was the Ti-Cats. It was the 1st "W" in 8 tries. It was the introduction of a new era. The Defense looks great and will win a couple of games on their own, I am sure. Marcus Ball will make "NFL-itis" a positive connotation. (;

Ricky Ray was superb. There is no need to temper or mitigate that fact.

Dropped balls, fumbles, low numbers, blocked kicks; they happen....but this team came out and WON that football game and showed tons of verve doing it... Walter Mitty.


Lets keep in mind, most of us would agree that going in, an 8/9 win seasons would have been considered an improvement and a success.


Smell the roses; I think we've got us a ball club.

[paulwoods13]

They were fortunate the Argos didn’t just audible and throw a bomb on those plays when the ticats were obviously in disarray.

Yeah, there was at least one play where the entire defence was racing into position as the Argos were ready to go -- I was wishing they had just gone ahead and snapped the ball.

[paulwoods13]

TSN1050 immediately cut away to a canned ESPN show. We turned to TSN1150 and got the rest of our post game information. Did savour the Ticats panicking too.

My question is, once you've got the infrastructure in place for a radio show, what exactly is the savings to shortened the experience?

They're still taken one step forward and two steps back? Lots to be excited about after the game. Most fans that drove are sitting in their cars, wanting the post game analysis. Shut that down immediately. It's a fact that most advertising is targeted at post-buyer behaviour. Used to reinforce their purchase decisions, right?


Great question. It would have SOME cost, as someone has to operate the equipment at the stadium, and the announcers should get paid for their work, but the cost of running another hour or so post-game would not be that high. It's something the team should consider covering.

[gilthethrill]

One of the Hamilton writers was wondering how Argo Tackle Brandon Washington (a Ti-Cat castoff) would stand up to Chick and Tracey. He should have been wondering how Hamilton rookie Tackle Swindle would handle Lemon and Butler. Washington did well but Lemon and Butler really benefitted from the inside push by Laing and Norton and had big days.

[AngeloV]

Let's not pretend that Posey, Edwards, and especially Green didn't make some great catches for Ray today, and that the Ticats had their starting secondary today (which they didn't btw).
Trestman out coached Austin, and he along with Ray (the entire team for that matter) deserve kudos. Night and day IMO over Milanovich.
Anyone else catch how pissed off Collaros was at Austin today ?

You are unreal.

[paulwoods13]

Lemon and Butler really benefitted from the inside push by Laing and Norton and had big days.

You mean Bishop, of course, not Norton. I agree our d-line was exceptionally strong. We also used a lot more safety and LB blitzes than I expected, and very effectively. The one worry I have about the d-line is wearing them out. Unlike most teams these days, we did not do any sort of rotation -- as far as I could see the four starters played virtually every snap. We dressed Tuggle and he got into a few plays on defence, but it looked to me as if he was lined up at LB, not d-line.

We don't have a ton of depth at either d-line or in the secondary so I could see some PR guys being released to bring in some new guys for both groups. Especially with Mitchell down -- we have just one INT DB on the 46 who didn't dress (Brandon Harris), and one on the PR (Winston Rose). Matt Black is on the six-game IL. Woodson acquitted himself very well at CB after Mitchell's injury (got beaten once on a deep throw, otherwise he wasn't really tested) but I assume he won't move into a starting role so soon into his pro career. On the line, we deactivated Wynn from the 46 and have Evan Foster on the PR. Cash and Waud are both six-gamed. So if we were to lose one of the front four we would be very thin.

[argotom]

Awesome game yesterday, very exciting and the only disappointing aspect was the lack of fans.
I have previously let it be known how Ray's best days were behind and he is basically a pylon in the pocket.
The pylon thing is possibly right as he is slower than last year if that's possible.
But that was one HOF and Player of the Week performance for the ages.
He made great throws, dropped them in the receivers hands and as we know there were more yards and TDs left on the field.
He made more big throws downfield than likely all last year during that disaster offensive scheme from the horrid Milanovich HC/OC.
If this is any indication what a new HC and OC can bring with a recharged Ray, well then let's buckle up.

[paulwoods13]

Good of you to acknowledge Ray's performance, AT. He clearly is not a mobile QB, but you don't need to be when you can hit receivers as effectively as he did yesterday. I'd have a hard time agreeing his best days are behind him after a 506-yard performance that didn't even include two dropped TD passes, but in any event it appears he was made for this offence, or vice versa. Also nice to see Fajardo do what we needed him to do -- get a first down in short yardage, score a TD in goal-line, and hold the ball well for Hajrillahu. Too bad we didn't pile up as many points as we could have because if we had, CF likely would have got some live snaps and hopefully we'd see that the cupboard isn't actually bare behind RR.

[argotom]

Good of you to acknowledge Ray's performance, AT. He clearly is not a mobile QB, but you don't need to be when you can hit receivers as effectively as he did yesterday. I'd have a hard time agreeing his best days are behind him after a 506-yard performance that didn't even include two dropped TD passes, but in any event it appears he was made for this offence, or vice versa. Also nice to see Fajardo do what we needed him to do -- get a first down in short yardage, score a TD in goal-line, and hold the ball well for Hajrillahu. Too bad we didn't pile up as many points as we could have because if we had, CF likely would have got some live snaps and hopefully we'd see that the cupboard isn't actually bare behind RR.


Agreed, the cupboard appears to be well stocked after yesterday.
We left points off the scoreboard as it would have been nice to put the peddle to the metal.
We are in for a good test on Friday as the Lions have Jennings and a much better Defence than the Cats, despite their loss on the weekend.
As for the Cats, they were horrid the DBs couldn't keep up with our receivers and were outreached on many occasions.
As for Zack, this could have been his worst game mind you he was pressured big time by our line.

[Will]

You mean Bishop, of course, not Norton. I agree our d-line was exceptionally strong. We also used a lot more safety and LB blitzes than I expected, and very effectively. The one worry I have about the d-line is wearing them out. Unlike most teams these days, we did not do any sort of rotation -- as far as I could see the four starters played virtually every snap. We dressed Tuggle and he got into a few plays on defence, but it looked to me as if he was lined up at LB, not d-line.

We don't have a ton of depth at either d-line or in the secondary so I could see some PR guys being released to bring in some new guys for both groups. Especially with Mitchell down -- we have just one INT DB on the 46 who didn't dress (Brandon Harris), and one on the PR (Winston Rose). Matt Black is on the six-game IL. Woodson acquitted himself very well at CB after Mitchell's injury (got beaten once on a deep throw, otherwise he wasn't really tested) but I assume he won't move into a starting role so soon into his pro career. On the line, we deactivated Wynn from the 46 and have Evan Foster on the PR. Cash and Waud are both six-gamed. So if we were to lose one of the front four we would be very thin.

Argos can move Cassius Vaughn back into the secondary if need be as well.

[paulwoods13]

Argos can move Cassius Vaughn back into the secondary if need be as well.

Which they did yesterday, as far as I could tell. It looked to me as if we essentially played a 4-2-6 formation all game, or at least after Mitchell got hurt. Doesn't change the need for more depth in the secondary (which includes the two outside linebackers -- we have good depth at MLB with Plummer behind Woods, and McFadden still around).

[doubleblue]

I have to give a shout out to the O-Line for pass protecting quite well against a very tough defensive line. Watman even played fairly well, at least I don't remember him getting pancaked by Laurent like last year. (Still wish Barker had picked Lauzon-Sequin instead of Jones last year) as he would look awfully good at RG for many years IMO. But Barker did pick Jamal Campbell who is being groomed to eventually step in somewhere. He's a mountain of a young man and I think he's going to play with a bit of an edge when he does break into the starting line up. Nothing like a bit of imtimination in the trenches. Looks like the undrafted kid from York, Chris Kolankowski maybe has passed Sankey on the depth chart, and he looks a big as advertised at 6'2 295.
The new receiver Edwards looks like he could be the replacement for Durie and Owens instead of Coombs getting open on those crossing patterns and adding yac yards. Being an ex-QB maybe throw in a few pass option plays for him. Hopefully Trestman will see the "it" value in Noel as the season progresses to rotate with Fuller or Posey. With Ricky Ray dropping that ball out of the heavens into the receivers hands I believe Noel will become a star. But I guess they don't want to rush him just yet. Don't think it would hurt the offense one bit if another Canadian position was needed in the future to start Noel at wide out backed by Ralph. I think I can see OV smiling. :)

[Neely2005]

Ricky comoleted 80% of his passes (with three dropped) for 506 yards and you are complaining about too many checkdowns? Seriously?

3rd best in Argonauts history:

"Ray’s 506 yards were the third-most in a game in Argos history. The team record is 524, set by Tobin Rote in 1960. Ray’s previous career high was 505 yards, done in a game in 2013."

http://nationalpost.com/sports/football/cfl/ricky-ray-throws-for-506-yards-toronto-argonauts-pound-hamilton-tiger-cats-in-front-of-sparse-home-crowd/wcm/7047d9cb-52e4-48e5-ad92-8d3f04460e39

[Neely2005]

Great job by the coaching staff
Great job by the players
Horrible job by the marketing team, if there is one
I'm convinced they are pumping in noise, because that crowd was far too small to be heard
They had an entire off season, their biggest rival, and no in town competition.
No point going on after every game about crowd size, but opening day I think is a good one to take notice of. Even when the jays were mediocre, opening day was a sellout.

No one is pumping in noise. Argonauts fans are loud. This isn't baseball or soccer that we're talking about.

[gilthethrill]

No one is pumping in noise. Argonauts fans are loud. This isn't baseball or soccer that we're talking about.

I was there last September when the Argos beat Hamilton for their last win of the year. Only 17 large in attendance, but it sounds closer to 30. Agreed, all natural noise...those aluminum steps really help.

[Shatto]

Great game. Winning is always good but beating Hamilton is a bonus. There were some positives and just a few negatives.
Positives:
.Ray played an outstanding game. Showed he is not only a very good QB but perhaps the best presently playing.
.Receivers were dominant. There had been some reservations expressed, about the quality of receivers but they demonstrated, if they stay healthy, the group could well rank up there with the best in the league.
.Defensive line completely overpowered the Cat's O line. Butler appears to be a good bookend to Lemon.
.DB's looked very good in their coverage. Losing Mitchell hurt but Harris (didn't dress) had a very good pre-season and could prove to be even better than Mitchell.
.Special team coverage was excellent. They managed to hold Banks in check throughout the game.
Negatives:
.The running game never got untracked. It will have to improve if the team is to be successful in the playoffs.
. Ray was sacked 3 times. This is 3 times too many. Trestman commented on this aspect of the game and stated they must address this issue.
.Attendance---not what we all hoped for--enough said.

[gilthethrill]

Great game. Winning is always good but beating Hamilton is a bonus. There were some positives and just a few negatives.
Positives:
.Ray played an outstanding game. Showed he is not only a very good QB but perhaps the best presently playing.
.Receivers were dominant. There had been some reservations expressed, about the quality of receivers but they demonstrated, if they stay healthy, the group could well rank up there with the best in the league.
.Defensive line completely overpowered the Cat's O line. Butler appears to be a good bookend to Lemon.
.DB's looked very good in their coverage. Losing Mitchell hurt but Harris (didn't dress) had a very good pre-season and could prove to be even better than Mitchell.
.Special team coverage was excellent. They managed to hold Banks in check throughout the game.
Negatives:
.The running game never got untracked. It will have to improve if the team is to be successful in the playoffs.
. Ray was sacked 3 times. This is 3 times too many. Trestman commented on this aspect of the game and stated they must address this issue.
.Attendance---not what we all hoped for--enough said.

Another negative...2 blocked FG attempts.

[Neely2005]

I thought that this was interesting and worth sharing. A friend of mine works for the league and was on the sidelines yesterday. The first thing that he mentioned to me was that there is a whole different attitude on the sidelines under Trestman. He said that there is more focus and discipline than under Milanovich.

My opinion after one game is that we have a lot of veteran players who know how to win and we could be looking at a special team here so enjoy it as they don't come around that often.

[Neely2005]

I was there last September when the Argos beat Hamilton for their last win of the year. Only 17 large in attendance, but it sounds closer to 30. Agreed, all natural noise...those aluminum steps really help.

I'm going to take some credit too, we had 3 kids and 6 cowbells in our group!
:-)

[argotom]

No one is pumping in noise. Argonauts fans are loud. This isn't baseball or soccer that we're talking about.


Absolutely as the immediate close people in our row all agreed the noise from the fans was deafening, much more so than at anytime last year.
It's not pumped.

[mchesher03]

No one is pumping in noise. Argonauts fans are loud. This isn't baseball or soccer that we're talking about.

No chance they are pumping in noise. I’ll only speak to my own section behind the bench but it’s fun, it’s quite active. Get half that volume and action from the east stands (the south endzone sure brings it) and we’re in business. Not chirping anyone but I notice a difference, similar spot at the skydome behind the argos bench was quite sleepy in comparison.

[paulwoods13]

I have to give a shout out to the O-Line for pass protecting quite well against a very tough defensive line. Watman even played fairly well, at least I don't remember him getting pancaked by Laurent like last year. (Still wish Barker had picked Lauzon-Sequin instead of Jones last year) as he would look awfully good at RG for many years IMO. But Barker did pick Jamal Campbell who is being groomed to eventually step in somewhere. He's a mountain of a young man and I think he's going to play with a bit of an edge when he does break into the starting line up. Nothing like a bit of imtimination in the trenches. Looks like the undrafted kid from York, Chris Kolankowski maybe has passed Sankey on the depth chart, and he looks a big as advertised at 6'2 295.

Campbell went in quite often at tight end and on one play where Whitaker ran for a first down, it was behind a big block thrown by Campbell on the right side of the line. I assume Kolankowski is the seventh o-lineman because he can play centre or guard. I don't know if Sackey has ever played centre. I agree Watman had a decent game yesterday. In fact, when we did give up sacks it always seemed to be the left side of the line (Holmes and Washington) to blame.

[Downtownfan]

I'm going to take some credit too, we had 3 kids and 6 cowbells in our group!
:-)

I had five kids in my group in Section 221 stomping on the stands, among many Ti-Cat fans-- kids had a blast.

[OV Argo]

Argos can move Cassius Vaughn back into the secondary if need be as well.


Yeah, Vaughn was playing the cover OLB spot and played well, but he played in the D-backfield for the Ticats last year, AND, he has a pretty impressive NFL resume (started at corner for 3 different teams there - I did not know that about him when I saw him for the Ticats last year). Nakas Onyeka could get a chance to play OLB if Vaughn needs to be moved back to the secondary.


And as far as Watman - he did get totally, cleanly beaten on one play by a Ticat DT (think it was the rookie Coleman) and the result was Ray got hit good (and sacked maybe?). I thought the Ticat D-line had some good pressure at times - but Ray just stood/hung in there, and got passes away; when he did have lots of time, he was deadly - 2 dropped TD passes - that were bad drops - he might have thrown for closer to 600 yards.

[Argo57]

Maybe it deserves a separate thread but is it too early to start a Jeff Reinboldt firing watch?

Not once or twice but Three times (!) there was more than one ticat defender screaming, waving their arms, etc. at Reinboldt to call the play in. They were fortunate the Argos didn’t just audible and throw a bomb on those plays when the ticats were obviously in disarray. I’d leave a one off but I’ve never seen this happen so often in one game, it was odd. There was also one instance where the ticats d was running onto the field almost too late entirely, the argos were getting to the line already. I found that odd too. Regardless, ol’ whiny kent Austin can’t be too happy with Reinboldt today.

On another fun note, what’s this talk about Zach Collaros lipping off to Kent during the game? Zach sure was pissy – was great to see our D setting the tempo and taking it to them.


The whole thing was thoroughly enjoyable, but I like the job Reinbold did yesterday and hope he keeps it up.

[1971GreyCup]

Argos Tweet: "Dave Warrener of R.H. King Academy is tonight's @BMO Coach of the Game. Congrats, Dave!"

Classy of Dave to show up and accept the award in a NFL NY Giants hat! Nicely managed by the Argos, leaving it on his head for photo ops!

Couldn't someone in Argos PR find an Argos hat? Would the Denver Broncos permit a NY Giants hat on the field and then the next day proudly spread it across all their social media sites? Goodness knows the Argos have enough Brand experts running around on the field on the payroll! Don't they always stress to us the methodical rebuilding of the brand? One step forward, two steps back.

873

#Argos #CFLKickoff

[argotom]

Argos Tweet: "Dave Warrener of R.H. King Academy is tonight's @BMO Coach of the Game. Congrats, Dave!"

Classy of Dave to show up and accept the award in a NFL NY Giants hat! Nicely managed by the Argos, leaving it on his head for photo ops!

Couldn't someone in Argos PR find an Argos hat? Would the Denver Broncos permit a NY Giants hat on the field and then the next day proudly spread it across all their social media sites? Goodness knows the Argos have enough Brand experts running around on the field on the payroll! Don't they always stress to us the methodical rebuilding of the brand? One step forward, two steps back.

873

#Argos #CFLKickoff


Good point.
Same analogy about Blue Jay, Maple Leafs etc. hats similarly being worn.

[jerrym]

I was only able to catch the highlights because of family commitments, but as misleading as highlights can be at times on the overall complexion of a game, this team stands in stark contrast to last year's highly predictable offence and sieve-like defence. There were lots of Rays of sunshine today. Hopefully, it will help in the step-by-step rebuilding of attendance as well.

[Neely2005]

Just watching the game on the PVR and I noticed at the start of the game they had broadcasted the Logo of the World Financial Group onto the Field for the TV audience. It's also the second sponsor logo on our jerseys this year.

EDIT: And an Argonauts logo at centre field and a Tim Hortons logo. Have they been doing this in the past on the broadcasts and I just missed it?

[ArgoGabe22]

Trestman's post game speech.

“First thing, I just want everybody to recognize is how great a winning locker room is, there’s nothing really like it, it’s what we really live for. What you’ll think about when you’re done playing is the appreciation for a winning locker room and what it means to win, because it’s not easy to win. No. 2 is give Hamilton credit. They fought the whole game, they made it hard, ask Ricky Ray he’ll tell ya. They made it tough, they’re a hell of a football team and we’re going to have to play them again so show them the respect that they deserve. And then just finally, take the time, we got a short week and I’m going to get into the short week in a second, take the time when you’re here to really be endearing to your teammates and the job that they did. And then take the time with your families tonight and enjoy the win. Celebrate it with your teammates in appropriate fashion because the truth of the matter is we got a lot of work to do, don’t we? We have got to get better. We have so many different areas in all three phases and we are on a short week. So the only way we can get better, and remember I preface this, take the time to enjoy the win, enjoy your families tonight, but when we leave here, tomorrow we’ve got to invest in our next opponent. They’re coming here on a short week and we can use it to our advantage. We gotta watch the tape of the game and make corrections on your own. We’ve got to invest in BC. We need to lock arms and get back to work as quickly as possible. Take the time in here to enjoy this locker room, you guys deserve it, you worked your tails off. Enjoy the locker room, enjoy afterwards. Enjoy everything that a win entails because it’s not easy and this is something we want to appreciate each and every time we have this opportunity.”

[Neely2005]

I was only able to catch the highlights because of family commitments, but as misleading as highlights can be at times on the overall complexion of a game, this team stands in stark contrast to last year's highly predictable offence and sieve-like defence. There were lots of Rays of sunshine today. Hopefully, it will help in the step-by-step rebuilding of attendance as well.

Check the TSN channels for a full replay of the game, there was already one @ 6AM today.

[Jon Gonzo]

I thought that this was interesting and worth sharing. A friend of mine works for the league and was on the sidelines yesterday. The first thing that he mentioned to me was that there is a whole different attitude on the sidelines under Trestman. He said that there is more focus and discipline than under Milanovich.

My opinion after one game is that we have a lot of veteran players who know how to win and we could be looking at a special team here so enjoy it as they don't come around that often.

Agreed. Milanovich always had teams that had penalty troubles, and he never seemed to be able to rein it in, despite some threats issued. I remember constantly cursing at the TV as the laundry flew all over the field; another flag that I simply knew would be going against Toronto.

[Will]

The distribution of Ray's passes from yesterday:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Wk 1 targets for <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Argos?src=hash">#Argos</a> QB Ricky Ray. Career day enjoying new weapons. Old Ricky conservative throws mixed with new downfield attack <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFL?src=hash">#CFL</a> <a href="https://t.co/MCh2BYUBbP">pic.twitter.com/MCh2BYUBbP</a></p>&mdash; Marshall Ferguson (@TSN_Marsh) <a href="https://twitter.com/TSN_Marsh/status/879397332361543685">June 26, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Argo57]

Trestman's post game speech.

I like his style, very intelligent and classy guy who knows how create a family atmosphere within the locker room.
My guess is these players are going to enjoy playing for him👍👍

[Scooter McCray]

Argos Tweet: "Dave Warrener of R.H. King Academy is tonight's @BMO Coach of the Game. Congrats, Dave!"

Classy of Dave to show up and accept the award in a NFL NY Giants hat! Nicely managed by the Argos, leaving it on his head for photo ops!

Couldn't someone in Argos PR find an Argos hat? Would the Denver Broncos permit a NY Giants hat on the field and then the next day proudly spread it across all their social media sites? Goodness knows the Argos have enough Brand experts running around on the field on the payroll! Don't they always stress to us the methodical rebuilding of the brand? One step forward, two steps back.

873

#Argos #CFLKickoffThis coach is free to wear what he wants but I thought it was classless of him to wear it. The Argos are honoring you at their game. The least you can do is not wear another team's hat out of respect. You don't have to wear an Argo hat but wear nothing instead. As for the Argo organization not ready to supply an Argo hat. I am not surprised. I sure hope the Flutie night is done properly.

[ArgoGabe22]

This coach is free to wear what he wants but I thought it was classless of him to wear it. The Argos are honoring you at their game. The least you can do is not wear another team's hat out of respect. You don't have to wear an Argo hat but wear nothing instead. As for the Argo organization not ready to supply an Argo hat. I am not surprised. I sure hope the Flutie night is done properly.

I think this is way overblown. Coach brings a hat to the game, might be his only hat, obviously doesn't think it's malicious wearing a Giants hat or forgets its even on. Fact is, it's easier to purchase an NFL hat in the market than it is an Argos hat. He might not even be an Argos fan at all.

[AngeloV]

I think this is way overblown. Coach brings a hat to the game, might be his only hat, obviously doesn't think it's malicious wearing a Giants hat or forgets its even on. Fact is, it's easier to purchase an NFL hat in the market than it is an Argos hat. He might not even be an Argos fan at all.

A whole lot about nothing IMO too, Gabe.

I am tired of all the complaining about these types of things in general.

[Downtownfan]

A whole lot about nothing IMO too, Gabe.

I am tired of all the complaining about these types of things in general.

Jeeze, the fact that the guy is a dedicated football coach, came to the came, and brought his team should be reason to celebrate. I wouldn't care if he was wearing a Ti-Cats hat for crying out loud. We need anyone and everyone who is committed coming to our game.

[1971GreyCup]

I think this is way overblown. Coach brings a hat to the game, might be his only hat, obviously doesn't think it's malicious wearing a Giants hat or forgets its even on. Fact is, it's easier to purchase an NFL hat in the market than it is an Argos hat. He might not even be an Argos fan at all.

If he's not an Argos fan, then when offered an honour, please just pass. "Coach of the Game" is just another Branding/Marketing tool. Argos had their top brand experts from their associated Bell Media companies there. I know this because I talked at length to them. Grab a flipping "A" hat and put it on his head, for crying out load! If he won't put it, don't send it across your social network. You own the message. Just plain sloppy business IMO!

[1971GreyCup]

A whole lot about nothing IMO too, Gabe.

I am tired of all the complaining about these types of things in general.


AngeloV businesses that can't do the small things, certainly can't do big things. Too many small errors = an empty stadium.

Vince Lombardi is no stranger to success. Followed closely by big business in the 1960's and 1970s. He said "Excellence is not a sometime thing; it's an all the time thing. You don't win once in a while; you don't do things right once in a while; you do them right all of the time. Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing."

When they stop doing these sloppy things and I'll stop complaining. Do you think Trestman is fine with the mistakes on Sunday? No, he isn't. He'll fix them. To paraphrase, he said "these are things we can control. And we will control these things."

[argotom]

AngeloV businesses that can't do the small things, certainly can't do big things. Too many small errors = an empty stadium.

Vince Lombardi is no stranger to success. Followed closely by big business in the 1960's and 1970s. He said "Excellence is not a sometime thing; it's an all the time thing. You don't win once in a while; you don't do things right once in a while; you do them right all of the time. Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing."

When they stop doing these sloppy things and I'll stop complaining. Do you think Trestman is fine with the mistakes on Sunday? No, he isn't. He'll fix them. To paraphrase, he said "these are things we can control. And we will control these things."


Agree with you again.
To suggest this is so minuscule in the overall scheme of things that it makes no difference, for me it's laughable.
The guy knew what he was doing when he put on a hat from the No Funners.
It's also likely he did not pay for the ticket.
Can you imagine this happening to any of the teams with MLSE or the Jays.
My analogy would be like a person throwing out the first pitch with a Yankee hat.
Wouldn't happen first of all as the marketing department or whatever would not allow this.

[AngeloV]

AngeloV businesses that can't do the small things, certainly can't do big things. Too many small errors = an empty stadium.

Vince Lombardi is no stranger to success. Followed closely by big business in the 1960's and 1970s. He said "Excellence is not a sometime thing; it's an all the time thing. You don't win once in a while; you don't do things right once in a while; you do them right all of the time. Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing."

When they stop doing these sloppy things and I'll stop complaining. Do you think Trestman is fine with the mistakes on Sunday? No, he isn't. He'll fix them. To paraphrase, he said "these are things we can control. And we will control these things."

That's fine, but I think a whole lot is being made about this. Was it ideal? Probably not, but nothing to get all worked up about IMO. Get the people in the stadium first, then let's worry about what they are wearing.

[1971GreyCup]

That's fine, but I think a whole lot is being made about this. Was it ideal? Probably not, but nothing to get all worked up about IMO. Get the people in the stadium first, then let's worry about what they are wearing.

Can't disagree with that AngeloV. But tickets are sold, not bought. Hard work pays off.

I am a very tough task master, and 100% outcome oriented. There lies my weakness. I despise mediocrity in business. I am just wired that way.

[Neely2005]

I think this is way overblown. Coach brings a hat to the game, might be his only hat, obviously doesn't think it's malicious wearing a Giants hat or forgets its even on. Fact is, it's easier to purchase an NFL hat in the market than it is an Argos hat. He might not even be an Argos fan at all.

The Argos should have given the coach a free Argonauts hat. Whenever guests/celebrities are at other sports games they usually give them a free leafs, Raptors, Jays... Jersey to wear for the photo op.

[Mightygoose]

Agreed with many on having the Argos hat with the photo op.

Hopefully those with the team continue to read this site and something like this is an easy fix for next time.

Copeland said in an article in the Star the other day, that they are not measuring themselves on attendance that day but by building the brand in the city. Well there is an opportunity right there.

Edit: Added Star link
https://www.thestar.com/sports/football/2017/06/25/argos-are-back-but-fans-stay-away-arthur.html

[Will]

I have to agree, would it really have been that hard to get the guy in an Argos hat?

[AngeloV]

The Argos should have given the coach a free Argonauts hat. Whenever guests/celebrities are at other sports games they usually give them a free leafs, Raptors, Jays... Jersey to wear for the photo op.

That's a fair comment.

[Scooter McCray]

I am more disappointed in the coach than the team. This guy is coaching our youth, and it is clear where his allegiances are and that influence will rub off on those youngsters. I get it, it is the GTA, everyone loves the NFL here. Everyone is free to like what they like and I wouldn't want it any other way. Hopefully he and his players were entertained on Sunday and can give the CFL equal love.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Of_jyeDZ3Sg

[Mightygoose]

I have no issue with him wearing a Giant's cap or even the odd person (not too many) wearing NFL, Jays gear etc....to an Argos game.

I'm sure at a TFC game, you'll get the off casual person wearing Barca, Man U or their national team's jersey etc...

A message that needs to come across that's it's OK to be fan of your favourite NFL team (closet Bills fan here) AND the Argos....it doesn't need to be a choice. The team giving the coach an Argos hat etc...is a way to bridge that.

[Scooter McCray]

I have no issue with him wearing a Giant's cap or even the odd person (not too many) wearing NFL, Jays gear etc....to an Argos game.

I'm sure at a TFC game, you'll get the off casual person wearing Barca, Man U or their national team's jersey etc...

A message that needs to come across that's it's OK to be fan of your favourite NFL team (closet Bills fan here) AND the Argos....it doesn't need to be a choice. The team giving the coach an Argos hat etc...is a way to bridge that. My issue with the guy is not wearing the Giants cap to the game, its wearing it to the game and knowing he is going to be honored by that team and have photo ops with that team. He should have removed it and worn nothing out of respect for the Argos who were his and his teams host when once he knew he was going to be on camera etc. If he chooses not to have the presence of mind to wish to do that - thats okay, but it was a mistake. As soon as I saw him on the jumbotron, and I saw his Giants cap, I couldn't get past that and was offended and felt for the Argos. I just don't think you would see that happen at other professional team events in this city or elsewhere. If you were going to be honored by the Tiger Cats, would you go out of your way to wear an Argo cap to rub their noses in it? Probably not, you would have more class than that and have respect for the people that are there honoring you and hosting you.

[Mightygoose]

My issue with the guy is not wearing the Giants cap to the game, its wearing it to the game and knowing he is going to be honored by that team and have photo ops with that team. He should have removed it and worn nothing out of respect for the Argos who were his and his teams host when once he knew he was going to be on camera etc. If he chooses not to have the presence of mind to wish to do that - thats okay, but it was a mistake. As soon as I saw him on the jumbotron, and I saw his Giants cap, I couldn't get past that and was offended and felt for the Argos. I just don't think you would see that happen at other professional team events in this city or elsewhere. If you were going to be honored by the Tiger Cats, would you go out of your way to wear an Argo cap to rub their noses in it? Probably not, you would have more class than that and have respect for the people that are there honoring you and hosting you.

I guess the real question is....and I don't think we'll ever know.

Was the guy oblivious to what he was wearing at the time (I actually didn't notice until it was brought up here) ? Was it out of spite of the team? I'd like to think it's the previous but either way, it's up to the team to spread their brand. Hopefully they can fix it next time.

[ArgoGabe22]

The guy knew what he was doing when he put on a hat from the No Funners.

It's a conspiracy!!!

[AngeloV]

It's a conspiracy!!!

LMFAO!! Something you would hear from a bad guy wrestler in the 70's.

[OV Argo]

It's a conspiracy!!!


No; more like the guy's just a clueless goof; be like getting invited to a Maple Leafs draft party and show up wearing a Penguins cap.

Whatever though - no big deal - just demonstrates wannabeness at it's finest - deeply ingrained in Southern Ontariowannabeland.

[Wobbler]

Sometimes a hat is just a hat.

[Jon Gonzo]

Sometimes a hat is just a hat.


I spotted a guy wearing a hat while playing Tennis the other day. Someone said his name was Roger Fedora.

[argolio]

Went to a football game and a hat argument broke out.

[AngeloV]

Thank God he wasn't wearing a flat bill cap. I can just imagine how bad the outrage on here would have been.

[doubleblue]

They should have asked the guy to put the hat on backwards to be cool, and hid the NY. He had the right colour after all.

[ArgoZ]

If anyone wants a good laugh, head over to the Ti-Cats forum in CFL.ca. After week one, the sky is falling with many calling for Austin, even Collaros to be moved out. It's a reminder that it is typical for a forum to be overly negative after a loss (much like this one), but it's nice to see it happen somewhere else for time being.

[Argo57]

If anyone wants a good laugh, head over to the Ti-Cats forum in CFL.ca. After week one, the sky is falling with many calling for Austin, even Collaros to be moved out. It's a reminder that it is typical for a forum to be overly negative after a loss (much like this one), but it's nice to see it happen somewhere else for time being.

I talked to some Ticat fans on the GO train heading home on Sunday, their venom towards Austin, Reinbold and the rest of the staff put anything posted on this forum to shame.
Bloom is off the rose in regards to Collaros as well (until their next win of course).

[AngeloV]

If anyone wants a good laugh, head over to the Ti-Cats forum in CFL.ca. After week one, the sky is falling with many calling for Austin, even Collaros to be moved out. It's a reminder that it is typical for a forum to be overly negative after a loss (much like this one), but it's nice to see it happen somewhere else for time being.

Did you read this forum in January and February?

[ArgoZ]

Did you read this forum in January and February?

Of course. However, this off-season was very unique. I believe many Argo fans were more frustrated/worried than any else, with good reason. I still maintain they got the extremely lucky how everything panned out. I find it amusing how the attitude of various teams changes week to week. There is extreme positivity around the Argos (and that's fine), but threads mentioning that this is the best receiving corpse in years are also premature.

[Rich]

but threads mentioning that this is the best receiving corpse in years are also premature.

You're right, it might not pan out because of injuries or whatever. But can you name a better Argos five-some ON PAPER -- experience, resume, measurables -- than this one?

[AngeloV]

Of course. However, this off-season was very unique. I believe many Argo fans were more frustrated/worried than any else, with good reason. I still maintain they got the extremely lucky how everything panned out. I find it amusing how the attitude of various teams changes week to week. There is extreme positivity around the Argos (and that's fine), but threads mentioning that this is the best receiving corpse in years are also premature.

I don't disagree, and to be clear, I wasn't taking a shot at you. Fact is, on the drive home, I chose to listen to the Hamilton post game show for my personal enjoyment. The call ins were awesome!!

[Argo57]

I don't disagree, and to be clear, I wasn't taking a shot at you. Fact is, on the drive home, I chose to listen to the Hamilton post game show for my personal enjoyment. The call ins were awesome!!

LOL Angelo, I immediately tuned into TSN1150 when I got in my car.
Capped off a perfect evening!!