Another who???? [Archive]

OV Argo

05-03-2012, 05:56 PM

Luke Wilson - TE from Rice.
Signed by the Blue Jays.

???

Yep - not only is Wilson a major league baseball prospect - already signed - he`s also considered a good TE prospect for next year`s NFL draft, AND he plays a position that is NOT used in the CFL ...

... wouldn`t be a CFL draft without all sort of surprises or bizzarre or baffling picks IMO, and this draft is a doozy in that department IMO; hard to fathom where a lot of CFL `scouts`get their ideas from. And the Argos have never been a team to build well through solid drafting, nor had that much luck with draft picks, so why start now i guess; but again, hopefully some of the picks pan out.

Argocister

05-03-2012, 06:01 PM

I was hoping that with Rudge coming in there would be a connect between the team and their marketing. The Olympics helped Canadians create an identity, and I know those players from the NCAA are Canadian, but more marketing pluses would come from taking more CIS players..... I guess the Argos let the other teams develop them....... As a major CIS fan I am disappointed ..... I am actually looking forward to see if any draft picks make the team my husband has tickets for....the tabbies :(

ArgoRavi

05-03-2012, 06:13 PM

The Argos drafted three CIS players in all including WR Quincy Hurst from Manitoba, LB Aaron Crawford from St. Mary's and DB Shea Pierre from Windsor so half of their picks came from the CIS.

1argoholic

05-03-2012, 06:16 PM

Our final two picks might be the only to pan out. I will never understand how one team can historically seemingly not give a shite about this draft. Hard to say that we did anything that will help our team this year.

Argoholics

05-03-2012, 06:17 PM

ArgoGabe22

05-03-2012, 06:21 PM

^ Don't think anyone is. I personally wouldn't have minded trading up for Chambers and if it didn't pan out I still wouldn't be as upset. At least they tried. I'm really liking Hamilton's draft. Why can't we have Obie back?

KCargosfan

05-03-2012, 06:21 PM

Only 5 WRs taken. Anybody know anything about Hurst?

Argocister

05-03-2012, 06:28 PM

The Argos drafted three CIS players in all including WR Quincy Hurst from Manitoba, LB Aaron Crawford from St. Mary's and DB Shea Pierre from Windsor so half of their picks came from the CIS.
And when I wrote the statement they had only picked Hurst...... In general, the Argos don't seem to go with the CIS players as much. maybe because CIS players will still be there to sign afterwards if they want. I realize they go with what's best for them.... That's their job. That's their choice in running the team. I personally would still like to see more CIS.... Other teams do .

Skinny G

05-03-2012, 07:01 PM

One thing I found interesting is that no one took a shot at drafting Quinlan... I wouldn't mind Barker trying to get him signed asap... would love to see him in camp and see what he can do and see if he has tools that can be developed.

OV Argo

05-03-2012, 07:59 PM

Wow, I almost feel like the Argos don't take the draft serious as some of the other teams, but maybe that's me and my 35 years of following the team... I'm not impressed but only time will tell I guess.

I don't know if it's not taking the draft seriously? - surely somebody in the organization has or now does; but maybe who gets the final call on the draft picks is somebody who has not been / is not really up to the task or else they just have a dim or limited view of what the draft can do for a team ???

This year's draft is not only IMO strange or very questionable for the Argos, but it also features league wide weirdness seems to me; and a number of supposed top prospects, including some players who got invited to the CFL E-Camp and some of whom put up some very impressive testing #s, are not drafted at all ... while all sorts of no names with not much on their football resumes get drafted ???

Pretty obvious to me that a lot of CFL key personnel decision makers have a limited or dim view of NI talent and in particular amongst CIS players and including some spicific positions; a whole whack of star CIS players not taken this draft - the 3 star CIS QBs being ignored should be no surprise, but RBs like Levesque and Riva, a DB like Hollohan (superb set of Combine #s and a 2 time CIS all-star DB) or DTs Van Praaet and Postuma or an O-Lineman like Mederios - not getting drafted at all ? - while a bunch of other picks have shown exactly what in football ??? But, maybe the CFL "scouts" have been digging really deep lately, and maybe some will hide their intentions so some real good players are not invited to their own Combine?

KCargosfan

05-03-2012, 08:08 PM

Pretty obvious to me that a lot of CFL key personnel decision makers have a limited or dim view of NI talent and in particular amongst CIS players and including some spicific positions; a whole whack of star CIS players not taken this draft - the 3 star CIS QBs being ignored should be no surprise, but RBs like Levesque and Riva, a DB like Hollohan (superb set of Combine #s and a 2 time CIS all-star DB) or DTs Van Praaet and Postuma or an O-Lineman like Mederios - not getting drafted at all ? - while a bunch of other picks have shown exactly what in football ??? But, maybe the CFL "scouts" have been digging really deep lately, and maybe some will hide their intentions so some real good players are not invited to their own Combine?

Will be interesting where those guys end up as FA signings.

RoRoYoBoat

05-03-2012, 08:13 PM

But ranked by who ? You have to keep that in mind. Forde is a self anointed guru and the CFL Scouting rankings is made up by the team's GM's who do their very best to keep their work private...

Wobbler

05-03-2012, 08:29 PM

Luke Wilson - TE from Rice.
Signed by the Blue Jays.
I like the Willson pick, provided that he doesn't have a realistic shot at the MLB (I don't know).

His NFL stock dropped quite a bit last season because he had consistency problems. Sure, he could have a great year and end up being drafted, but that's a risk with any Junior.

I watched a few of his games with Rice last year and he's an intriguing package. He's an awesome upfield blocker and has decent speed; he could certainly line up as SB and end up blocking for Durie or Boyd. He has good hands (but did drop some catchable balls last year) and would be a legitimate threat for short passes (at SB or TE). He's also certainly strong enough to line up on short yardage plays.

Willson may not have been the wisest choice, but he's an *intriguing* choice.

Nob

05-03-2012, 08:32 PM

Here's what I can see about the Argos draft - there are no stats listed on the Argo website on any of their picks. That tells me lots......

Argocister

05-03-2012, 11:39 PM

The picks are futures and won't be around for a year or more.
The 3 from the NCAA all have a year left at school.
I'm not sure,if the CIS players have another year of eligibility, but they'll be at training camp.
It is true how the whole draft was not predictable. ... Except for Heenan.
I don't think a RB was even picked.
Does anyone think more non-imports will be signed by the Argos as free agents?

1argoholic

05-04-2012, 12:10 AM

So does this say that Barker is thrilled with our roster as it sits now and it needs no help? He seems to think that Ray will lead us to the Grey Cup with little help. It's not like we've brought in super star talent as free agent signings other than Ray. Go look at the roster and you make the call if these are the guys that will win Grey Cup 100. I can't see how we didn't pick one or two guys who would make an impact this year. Why toss picks aside until next year or maybe never? I really want to hear Barkers thoughts on this. Yesterday he was yapping on about always looking for players that are better than what we have. That was obviously some sort or BS he was flinging. I have hope for our final two picks. Time will tell.

zontar

05-04-2012, 01:34 AM

Quite possibly Obie's best draft, with help from Cortez and not a coincidence its the most talented draft class since Obie's been here.

ArgoRavi

05-04-2012, 01:43 AM

Some good news for the Argos is that Luke Willson is leaning towards football over baseball: http://www.windsorstar.com/sports/LaSalle+Willson+drafted+Argos+Draft/6562831/story.html

Willson was also very happy to be picked by the Argos in the draft: http://blog.chron.com/owls/2012/05/rice-tight-end-willson-selected-in-cfl-draft/

So does this say that Barker is thrilled with our roster as it sits now and it needs no help? He seems to think that Ray will lead us to the Grey Cup with little help. It's not like we've brought in super star talent as free agent signings other than Ray. Go look at the roster and you make the call if these are the guys that will win Grey Cup 100. I can't see how we didn't pick one or two guys who would make an impact this year. Why toss picks aside until next year or maybe never? I really want to hear Barkers thoughts on this. Yesterday he was yapping on about always looking for players that are better than what we have. That was obviously some sort or BS he was flinging. I have hope for our final two picks. Time will tell.

The Argos only had one pick in the first three rounds of this draft so chances of getting much immediate help were never good. If it were up to me, I would have picked Plesius at #9 only because I know much more about him than Laing but obviously the Argo brass likes what they see in Laing and only time will tell if they are correct on that. I doubt that not picking Plesius this year will cost the Argos the Grey Cup though.

Let's remember that it will take a few years before we know how good or how bad of a draft this was for the Argos or any other team. We still don't know who the big winners of the 2010 draft were. The Argos were seen at the time to have made out very well but we are still waiting for Greenwood and Reinders and Steven Turner did not pan out, in part because of a serious injury that nobody could have predicted. Eppele will likely be a starter this year though after playing effectively in his sophomore season and Spencer Watt has shown flashes and will likely be a significant part of the offence this year so that draft could still turn out to be an outstanding one, especially if Greenwood and/or Reinders ever show up and make a contribution.

As far as 2011 goes, we are anxiously awaiting how Feoli-Gudino will do and whether the likes of Alexandre and Robinson will improve. If Tyler Holmes shows up this year, that would be a major boost.

It seems that more years than not, Jim Popp makes some selections that leaves experts scratching their heads and yet he has had at least as many hits as misses and always has his team at or near the top of the East. Once again this year, people can't figure out what Popp has done but I bet that he ends up with at least a couple of solid contributors long-term for that franchise. Again, we have to wait and see and it will take a few years before we know how successful any team's draft has been.

gilthethrill

05-04-2012, 06:53 AM

Cleyon Laing? I never even heard him mentioned on any draft preview show. Argos must be expecting him to get more playing time in his senior year & blossom into a solid player. I expect if he played CIS ball, he would have been a house hold name. The linebacker out of Colorado intriques me. He does not appear to be an NFL type LB, so I expect him to be in camp next year as well. If Wilson does choose football, that too could be a smart pick as an oversized slotback-fb type guy.

Really wished Nathan Riva would have been drafted by Barker & Co.

1argoholic

05-04-2012, 01:12 PM

We have lost so many guys who just get drafted and never see double blue so I was hoing for a change in direction. I thought that they may take players that could help now. Barker keeps going on about not having a first rounder. What the hell this isn't the NFL. We don't have many teams and there was one less first round pick to boot. He could have had a solid player at number nine. What happens if this so called athlete in Laing has a terrific year. We lose him to the NFL. Wilson could end up there as well. If his NFL dream dies he may pick baseball and the better money to be made.
One thing that has made Wally a huge success is the ability to find great talent that falls through the NFL cracks until they star in the CFL. Then once they leave he has the ability to always plug the holes. The key is that he picks guys who actually show up to camp. I don't like this picking for next year. How often has that worked out for us. Oh well as a fan sitting thousands of miles a way all I can do is share my thoughts which are 99.9% of the time looked at as being stupid by many on here. Funny how correct I've been in evaluation of the team the last few years though. I just hope we have done enough to improve this year. Hopefully it's better coaching that'll make a difference. Montreal will be in the mix as always and Hamilton will be much better so I just hope we can hang in.

RoRoYoBoat

05-04-2012, 02:17 PM

Your looking at pieces of paper and computer screens. Ray was worth the pick, Wilson is a good pick. Lavoie is a good pick. Abedayo runs an electronic 40 in 4.78 at 265 That's a serious prospect. People get caught up with name recognition. Both those teams drafted guys who are highly intelligent and fit a specific purpose to build them up and utilize them. Barker is not perfect but Jones is a hell of a talent evaluator and so is Milanovich, so give them an opportunity. I'll take their judgement over Allemang and Forde any day. As for Montreal when you've drafted Jourdain 48, Stala 50 and Josh Bourke at 24. I am not going to question those guys. Every single one of their starter has been drafted by the club and The have an additional four NI that they drafted who now play for other teams. If our guys can just come close to that kind of success I'd be ecstatic.

KCargosfan

05-04-2012, 02:42 PM

RoRoYoBoat

05-04-2012, 07:57 PM

Come on... You don't think they spoke to Wilson before drafting him ? Wouldn't you have liked to have Kerry Carter ? He was a NCAA future pick. Tonye Tonye is a beast and IMO as good as Plesius and not as much of a head case.

Great post. I thought getting Adebayo at 18 was a steal for Montreal. Kind of wish we had taken him with our first pick.

Two different positions. Laing is a DT and Adebayo is an end. NI DT are less of a risk and Montreal needed an end to go with Ihekwoaba. So it makes sense.

OV Argo

05-04-2012, 08:28 PM

Two different positions. Laing is a DT and Adebayo is an end. NI DT are less of a risk and Montreal needed an end to go with Ihekwoaba. So it makes sense.

Have the Als stated they plan to give playing time / start an NI at DE? - to replace Stewart maybe? - Ihekwoaba has seen basically zero playing time on their D so far; maybe between him and Abedayo, they go with an NI at DE, but i'll believe it when i see it.

Quite possibly Obie's best draft, with help from Cortez and not a coincidence its the most talented draft class since Obie's been here.

Yep - Obie and the Ticats kicked -@$$ in this past draft IMO; Plesius and Gascon-Nadon are both top CIS defensive stars, and Stephen is a former CIS all-star who went on to play in a Div I program - maybe a future solid CFL safety; and getting a CIS best type receiver like Charbonneau-Campeau later in the draft was a real steal IMO - they now have this guy along with Fantuz, Stala and Giguere as NI receivers (plus Mahoney and McKay who are both former top CIS receivers). And Rockhill was considered a very good O-Line prospect for this draft - maybe a future starting OT - all proven college ball players - that's what you should be aiming for in the draft IMO.

RoRoYoBoat

05-04-2012, 09:03 PM

Yep - Obie and the Ticats kicked -@$$ in this past draft IMO; Plesius and Gascon-Nadon are both top CIS defensive stars, and Stephen is a former CIS all-star who went on to play in a Div I program - maybe a future solid CFL safety; and getting a CIS best type receiver like Charbonneau-Campeau later in the draft was a real steal IMO - they now have this guy along with Fantuz, Stala and Giguere as NI receivers (plus Mahoney and McKay who are both former top CIS receivers). And Rockhill was considered a very good O-Line prospect for this draft - maybe a future starting OT - all proven college ball players - that's what you should be aiming for in the draft IMO.

Ahhh.... But they aren't signed yet... Wait till Obilovich contacts Halloway and tries to sign these two :)
And he can only protect 22 of them... You think Nadon or Plesius will accept a practice roster spot ?

It always looks greener in the neighbors yard...

OV Argo

05-04-2012, 09:32 PM

Ahhh.... But they aren't signed yet... Wait till Obilovich contacts Halloway and tries to sign these two :)
And he can only protect 22 of them... You think Nadon or Plesius will accept a practice roster spot ?

It always looks greener in the neighbors yard...

Not sure what you're getting at here? - do you think the Ticats made some poor picks; and in comparison, the Argos draft was excellent?

Obie knows some in and outs, with his vast CFL experience, of signing guys and dealing with agents; the rap on CIS players choosing a hard-ball type agent is garbage IMO and another CFL good ole boy way to discredit Canadian talent; and BTW - i believe that agent represented top Bomber pick Muamba last year - who signed with them, played for them last year, and is now in the running to maybe start at MLB (Lobendhan cut; but Muamba could be in a fight with Labbe who is quite good IMO).
Argos drafted Tonye-Tonye - seems like a pretty good college ball resume from the States - i think he is more a MLB type (can't see him getting any type of CFL look as a tweener type, small CFL OLB) - are the Argos going to carry 3 NI MLB types on the roster? - Pottinger, Black and this draft pick ???

Argocister

05-04-2012, 10:21 PM

On the day after the draft, there are many that also have the Tabbies having the most successful draft..... And also have the the "who and what? " response for the Argos picks.
It is what it is..... There are different influencing factors for each team. For the Argos it is the preference for selecting juniors, the lack of film and info due to the fire, ...... Did others catch the comment re Barker knowing the coach for
Laing in Iowa......obviously you have to depend on relationships if you've lost most of your info.
The interview on RougeRadio was interesting on the draft as a whole....It is an hour long..... http://www.rougeradio.com/ ....season 3show 2
I like the Ticats draft, not so much the Argos...... But I will leave it up to Milanovich to get the team together for the season so that it won't really matter.

KCargosfan

05-04-2012, 11:16 PM

Not sure what you're getting at here? - do you think the Ticats made some poor picks; and in comparison, the Argos draft was excellent?

Obie knows some in and outs, with his vast CFL experience, of signing guys and dealing with agents; the rap on CIS players choosing a hard-ball type agent is garbage IMO and another CFL good ole boy way to discredit Canadian talent; and BTW - i believe that agent represented top Bomber pick Muamba last year - who signed with them, played for them last year, and is now in the running to maybe start at MLB (Lobendhan cut; but Muamba could be in a fight with Labbe who is quite good IMO).
Argos drafted Tonye-Tonye - seems like a pretty good college ball resume from the States - i think he is more a MLB type (can't see him getting any type of CFL look as a tweener type, small CFL OLB) - are the Argos going to carry 3 NI MLB types on the roster? - Pottinger, Black and this draft pick ???

I'm under the impression Tonye-Tonye is heading back to Northern Colorado for another year.

OV Argo

05-04-2012, 11:32 PM

I'm under the impression Tonye-Tonye is heading back to Northern Colorado for another year.

Gerry Datillio played at Northern Colorado; Kyle Quinlan, or Billy Greene, did not.

ArgoRavi

05-05-2012, 03:27 AM

Come on... You don't think they spoke to Wilson before drafting him ? Wouldn't you have liked to have Kerry Carter ? He was a NCAA future pick. Tonye Tonye is a beast and IMO as good as Plesius and not as much of a head case.

I am not sure if the Argos or any CFL team can even speak with NCAA players before drafting them. Wouldn't that make them ineligible then? I thought that the NCAA has strict rules about that.

Regarding Willson's MLB prospects, I am not sure that they are all that great. There are lots of baseball players signed and drafted each year and most of them will never make the majors which is the only place where they can make substantial money. It really isn't that much of a longshot that Willson could end up with the Argos in the forseeable future.

Gerry Datillio played at Northern Colorado; Kyle Quinlan, or Billy Greene, did not.

And Brad Sinopoli played at the University of Ottawa.

paulwoods13

05-05-2012, 07:03 AM

Judging a team's success or failure at the draft table a day or two after it is not very sensible. Three years after makes more sense. I've been guilty in the past of saying that the Argos' 2010 draft crop was excellent, but even two years later the jury is still out on that.

RoRoYoBoat

05-05-2012, 08:36 AM

That is a good approach. In my opinion this year and next teams have to alter their draft strategy with the dispersal draft and you clearly see that in Montreal. What is the point of drafting guys and investing one or two years development for Ottawa's benefit ? And guess who Ottawa is going to target ? Its Eastern Rivals. Teams can only protect 7 Non-Imports, one QB and one kicker. So let's do the exercise for fun.

Toronto protected list: Ray, Pre, Durie,VanZeyl,Black,Eppele,Laing,Gudino,Foley (as example, just picked based on age and such).

Likely to get poached: JJackson,Marcoux,Watt,Black,Keeping,Parenteau,Brad well.

That's a hit you can live with.

Now do the same with Hamilton

Protected list: Burris,Dyakowski,Fantuz,Hinds,Giguere,Plesius,Step hen,Petrus and a Kicker let's say Congi

Exposed: Hage,Stala,Steele,Rawukamba,Baillargeon,Brown,Rock hill,Nadon,Campeau.

Winnipeg:

Protect: Brink,Logan,Renaud,Poblah,Muamba,Watson,Pencer,Gre aves,Volny.

You see what happens... I'f I am the new GM in Ottawa. I am going to target specifice positions with my 3 rivals to dismantle their roster as much as possible. I'd grab 2 Olinesmen in Montreal, 2 receivers in Hamilton and do the same with their imports.

If the draft was tomorrow, Eastern teams would likely lose these guys

Montreal: Mcpherson,Mcknight Bomben,Matte, Brouillette. 2 of their import DB's
Hamilton: Porter,Stala,Hage,Steele,Campeau,Brown,2 of their import receivers.
Toronto: Jackson,Marcoux,Keeping,Bradwell and ????
Winnipeg Etienne,Labbe,Swiston,Sorensen,Aprille,Bikulidi,Cv etkovic,Woodson,Matechuk,Palardy,Pierce

As you can see Montreal and Hamilton will take a massive hits on their non import content while Toronto and Winnipeg will not. Ottawa will get 4 under age propects of their choice next year to take off the board, plus their turn at the draft table, plus the best non protected players from other teams. What teams tend to do is leave out older players who are earning top money but the way the dispersal draft is set up that won't bother Ottawa too much becaue they have so much youth they have access to.

Something to think about...

KCargosfan

05-05-2012, 02:14 PM

Gerry Datillio played at Northern Colorado; Kyle Quinlan, or Billy Greene, did not.

Michael Bishop played at Kansas State.

That is a good approach. In my opinion this year and next teams have to alter their draft strategy with the dispersal draft and you clearly see that in Montreal. What is the point of drafting guys and investing one or two years development for Ottawa's benefit ? And guess who Ottawa is going to target ? Its Eastern Rivals. Teams can only protect 7 Non-Imports, one QB and one kicker. So let's do the exercise for fun.

Toronto protected list: Ray, Pre, Durie,VanZeyl,Black,Eppele,Laing,Gudino,Foley (as example, just picked based on age and such).

Likely to get poached: JJackson,Marcoux,Watt,Black,Keeping,Parenteau,Brad well.

That's a hit you can live with.

Now do the same with Hamilton

Protected list: Burris,Dyakowski,Fantuz,Hinds,Giguere,Plesius,Step hen,Petrus and a Kicker let's say Congi

Exposed: Hage,Stala,Steele,Rawukamba,Baillargeon,Brown,Rock hill,Nadon,Campeau.

Winnipeg:

Protect: Brink,Logan,Renaud,Poblah,Muamba,Watson,Pencer,Gre aves,Volny.

You see what happens... I'f I am the new GM in Ottawa. I am going to target specifice positions with my 3 rivals to dismantle their roster as much as possible. I'd grab 2 Olinesmen in Montreal, 2 receivers in Hamilton and do the same with their imports.

If the draft was tomorrow, Eastern teams would likely lose these guys

Montreal: Mcpherson,Mcknight Bomben,Matte, Brouillette. 2 of their import DB's
Hamilton: Porter,Stala,Hage,Steele,Campeau,Brown,2 of their import receivers.
Toronto: Jackson,Marcoux,Keeping,Bradwell and ????
Winnipeg Etienne,Labbe,Swiston,Sorensen,Aprille,Bikulidi,Cv etkovic,Woodson,Matechuk,Palardy,Pierce

As you can see Montreal and Hamilton will take a massive hits on their non import content while Toronto and Winnipeg will not. Ottawa will get 4 under age propects of their choice next year to take off the board, plus their turn at the draft table, plus the best non protected players from other teams. What teams tend to do is leave out older players who are earning top money but the way the dispersal draft is set up that won't bother Ottawa too much becaue they have so much youth they have access to.

Something to think about...

Great post.

Argocister

05-05-2012, 05:02 PM

I would need more convincing to agree with that post. I can't see putting one of the goals of the draft to be..... Draft far out and poor so Ottawa can't screw us. That's not supportive of the league ( which I think the CFL is trying to push)
I think Barker likes sleepers, if the NCAA players make it to the CFL then it's a prize for us, and who can we work with in the CIS bunch for the spots we need. They obviously consider NCAA players a higher stock than the CIS ..... They're the football gurus but... It seems the CIS stock is improving ( although not by this draftS results) . From home on my couch, I think the CIS players are better than they think and the group selecting the players are stuck in old time thinking. But maybe that also is wishful thinking on my part.

ArgoRavi

05-05-2012, 05:07 PM

I would need more convincing to agree with that post. I can't see putting one of the goals of the draft..... Draft far out and poor so Ottawa can't screw us.
I think Barker likes sleepers, if the NCAA players make it to the CFL then it's a prize for us, and who can we work with in the CIS bunch for the spots we need. They obviously consider NCAA players a higher stock than the CIS ..... They're the football gurus but... It seems the CIS stock is improving ( although not by this draft) . From home on my couch, I think the CIS players a better than they think and they're stuck in old thinking. But maybe that also is wishful thinking.

My perception is that we have seen an increasing number of CIS players picked over the years. Barker and many others have said that CIS talent has improved a lot over the years. It just so happened that this year we saw a fair number of NCAA players picked early but I don't really think that is indicative of anything. In the end, 28 of the 45 players selected this year came from the CIS.