Victor Butler

[Will]

Obviously a small sample size, but through two games he has 5 tackles, 4 sacks and 2 forced fumbles. Whether or not he keeps it up is another question, but if he does he is the type of DE I was looking for to complement Shawn Lemon.

[gilthethrill]

Good find by Jim Barker.

[AngeloV]

Nobody can keep up that pace, but the added attention he gets from other teams schemes will free up Lemon. If they both stay healthy, bad news for opposing QB's.

[jerrym]

He can't keep it up for the rest of the season, but he is tonight with two sacks already at half-time against Ottawa.

[jerrym]

Butler picks up his third sack in the fourth quarter! This guy is becoming a game changer.

[gilthethrill]

Also had 8 tackles. Lineman of the week.

[Argo57]

Defensive stud, D Line drastically improved this season!!
Kudos to Barker for signing Butler.

[doubleblue]

Heard him on Hogan's interview. He seems to have his head screwed on right. Hope Popp can sign him for a three year deal. Calgary for example, seems to be able to keep players but the Argos get a good player and he's back to the NFL or to another team in the CFL. Anybody still upset about releasing Ricky Foley?

Also thought Findley did a great job coming in for Bishop. Don't know why Trestman couldn't go with two Canadian DT starters when Waud gets back.

[paulwoods13]

If we started two NAT tackles we could try a second INT on the o-line, which is still really struggling.

[doubleblue]

If we started two NAT tackles we could try a second INT on the o-line, which is still really struggling.

That's exactly what I was thinking.

[gilthethrill]

If we started two NAT tackles we could try a second INT on the o-line, which is still really struggling.

Did J-Michael Deane see the field tonight?

[paulwoods13]

I don't believe Deane played a snap. Btw who was our scratch besides Prukop?

[Argo57]

If we started two NAT tackles we could try a second INT on the o-line, which is still really struggling.

Ray stood in there tonight but took a lot of punishment, not a good scenario long term.

[Wobbler]

I don't believe Deane played a snap. Btw who was our scratch besides Prukop?
W Campbell.

[ArgoZ]

Heard him on Hogan's interview. He seems to have his head screwed on right. Hope Popp can sign him for a three year deal. Calgary for example, seems to be able to keep players but the Argos get a good player and he's back to the NFL or to another team in the CFL. Anybody still upset about releasing Ricky Foley?

Also thought Findley did a great job coming in for Bishop. Don't know why Trestman couldn't go with two Canadian DT starters when Waud gets back.

3 year deal? Don't think so. Try 1 year, and at this rate, it would have to be after a failed NFL tryout. Life of a CFL fan.

[ArgoRavi]

Butler turns 30 later this month. I can't see any NFL teams interested in signing him next year when he would be 31 by the time their season begins.

[paulwoods13]

Butler turns 30 later this month. I can't see any NFL teams interested in signing him next year when he would be 31 by the time their season begins.

Ordinarily I would agree, but he is playing at a level that will turn some heads down south. Working against him is the fact that he has already played seven years there so his salary would have to be at least $915,000 next year. Teams will weigh (among other things) whether he's worth twice as much as a first-year DE.

[OV Argo]

Heard him on Hogan's interview. He seems to have his head screwed on right. Hope Popp can sign him for a three year deal. Calgary for example, seems to be able to keep players but the Argos get a good player and he's back to the NFL or to another team in the CFL. Anybody still upset about releasing Ricky Foley?

Also thought Findley did a great job coming in for Bishop. Don't know why Trestman couldn't go with two Canadian DT starters when Waud gets back.


Didn't see Bishop go out with an injury, but Findley - in the rest of this game - was easily & clearly (IMO) way better than Bishop has been; any bets on to who gets the more reps if Bishop is healthy and dressed again? Laing/Findley/Waud could IMO easily form the starting 2 DT spots in a rotation; and as good as Butler is playing, they IMO should have another DE in the mix along with Lemon - could be another import, but I'd like to see draft pick Evan Foster get a real shot there.

And maybe vet Deane will emerge on the O-line if he gets a shot, but Trestman might be one of those offensive coaches who likes to stick with his starting O-line. And a good number of rookie draft pick O-linemen last season panned out as solid players when given a shot last year - Mason Woods might be one of those types too.


And there is IMO very little chance Butler gets another NFL look at his age (plus higher salary he would command as Paul points out) - he could set the CFL sack record and I doubt that would draw much notice from the NFL super-experts, who mostly have little to no use for top CFL stats and play-making.

[R.J]

Butler looking to be a huge pickup, as is Bear Woods IMO. TBH, the defence is playing a lot better than I anticipated, but I still feel the secondary is our weak point on defence, and you know who needs to be replaced.

[AngeloV]

Butler as a first year CFL player I believe had to sign a 1+ 1 deal. That would make him an Argo property in 2018 as well.

[Will]

Butler looking to be a huge pickup, as is Bear Woods IMO. TBH, the defence is playing a lot better than I anticipated, but I still feel the secondary is our weak point on defence, and you know who needs to be replaced.

Is his name hyphenated? :D

[AngeloV]

Butler looking to be a huge pickup, as is Bear Woods IMO. TBH, the defence is playing a lot better than I anticipated, but I still feel the secondary is our weak point on defence, and you know who needs to be replaced.

Has you know who been beat this year? I have yet to see a big game from a short side wide out this year against the Argos. Young Brandon Harris is the only db that has struggled IMO, but I'm not willing to give up on a rookie.

[Argo57]

Has you know who been beat this year? I have yet to see a big game from a short side wide out this year against the Argos. Young Brandon Harris is the only db that has struggled IMO, but I'm not willing to give up on a rookie.

After suffering through last years D I am thrilled with what they have done so far, superior talent level and much more aggressive scheme nice to watch.

[paulwoods13]

The defence is playing extremely well. Most of Ellingson's big plays were superb throws and catches. Some credit is due to the other team.

We definitely need more depth on the d-line. Can't expect Lemon and Butler to play every down all season without wearing down.

I would like to see two NATs at DT (rotating among the three) but Waud needs to get healthy for that to be possible. That switch would allow us to insert an INT on the o-line, which is still struggling. I can't decide who is having a worse year, Holmes or Watman, but leaning to the former. Deane's turn may be coming.

[AngeloV]

The defence is playing extremely well. Most of Ellingson's big plays were superb throws and catches. Some credit is due to the other team.

We definitely need more depth on the d-line. Can't expect Lemon and Butler to play every down all season without wearing down.

I would like to see two NATs at DT (rotating among the three) but Waud needs to get healthy for that to be possible. That switch would allow us to insert an INT on the o-line, which is still struggling. I can't decide who is having a worse year, Holmes or Watman, but leaning to the former. Deane's turn may be coming.

I think the Argos probably need to dress one less receiver and an extra D-lineman too. Paden wasn't even looked at last night. Would have been better off starting Noel (same body type as Fuller too) at that spot and getting the extra depth on the line, but who can argue with a victory?

[ArgoGabe22]

Butler is still on pace to get 40 sacks. :)

[Wobbler]

Didn't see Bishop go out with an injury, but Findley - in the rest of this game - was easily & clearly (IMO) way better than Bishop has been.
I only noticed him a couple of times, but I thought he looked a bit sluggish for a guy coming in fresh halfway through a game. He was certainly good enough to earn some future rotation time, though.

[Wobbler]

Butler is still on pace to get 40 sacks. :)
He's on pace for 42, but if he decides to get serious...

[doubleblue]

I only noticed him a couple of times, but I thought he looked a bit sluggish for a guy coming in fresh halfway through a game. He was certainly good enough to earn some future rotation time, though.

I believe Finley got credit for two sacks. Don't know why Waud (if he can stay healthy) Laing and Finley at DT, and Lemon, Butler and Tuggle at DE couldn't be an effective unit for the D Line and another Canadian starter position.
Ricky is taking too many hard hits IMO that could be remedied somewhat with a bit more talent and size on the O Line. IMO they should drop Paden and replace that position with Noel and/or Coombs. Move Washington to RG. Start Will Campbell at LT. Play James Wilder more as a FB/SB/TE along with Whitaker in the back field. Wilder IMO would be a much better blocker, a receiver out of the backfield and occasionally running the ball than Cross. Those changes would still give them 7 starters for the ratio. It is so easy being a arm chair QB. :)

[gilthethrill]

I believe Finley got credit for two sacks. Don't know why Waud (if he can stay healthy) Laing and Finley at DT, and Lemon, Butler and Tuggle at DE couldn't be an effective unit for the D Line and another Canadian starter position.
Ricky is taking too many hard hits IMO that could be remedied somewhat with a bit more talent and size on the O Line. IMO they should drop Paden and replace that position with Noel and/or Coombs. Move Washington to RG. Start Will Campbell at LT. Play James Wilder more as a FB/SB/TE along with Whitaker in the back field. Wilder IMO would be a much better blocker, a receiver out of the backfield and occasionally running the ball than Cross. Those changes would still give them 7 starters for the ratio. It is so easy being a arm chair QB. :)

As for the defensive line, Alan Michael Cash is on the 6 game. If he gets healthy he would really add to the interior. Not sure of the nature of Bishops injury. I don't know if Findley is a long term starter despite last nights performance. Dylan Wynn is also an option at DT. Will Brian Jones ever play SB? Not sure if he is really hurt or just not a favourite of Popp. I would start him ahead of Paden.

[ArgoRavi]

As for the defensive line, Alan Michael Cash is on the 6 game. If he gets healthy he would really add to the interior. Not sure of the nature of Bishops injury. I don't know if Findley is a long term starter despite last nights performance. Dylan Wynn is also an option at DT. Will Brian Jones ever play SB? Not sure if he is really hurt or just not a favourite of Popp. I would start him ahead of Paden.

I don't think anyone saw Brian Jones during training camp or in the preseason so I think it is safe to say that he is indeed injured.

[1971GreyCup]

As for the defensive line, Alan Michael Cash is on the 6 game. If he gets healthy he would really add to the interior. Not sure of the nature of Bishops injury. I don't know if Findley is a long term starter despite last nights performance. Dylan Wynn is also an option at DT. Will Brian Jones ever play SB? Not sure if he is really hurt or just not a favourite of Popp. I would start him ahead of Paden.

Bishop must have an upper body injury. We saw him strolling around without his shoulder pads during the game in the second half.

[AngeloV]

I would start him ahead of Paden.
Jones is not a wideout type. If I had to chose a replacement for Fuller, it would be either Noel, or Ralph at this point.



I don't think anyone saw Brian Jones during training camp or in the preseason so I think it is safe to say that he is indeed injured.

He was practicing last Wednesday when I attended.

[paulwoods13]

I believe Finley got credit for two sacks. Don't know why Waud (if he can stay healthy) Laing and Finley at DT, and Lemon, Butler and Tuggle at DE couldn't be an effective unit for the D Line and another Canadian starter position.

I can't tell whether Tuggle is a rush end or a LB. He seems to be built more like a LB, and he changed his number to 24 which is not really a d-line number. I saw him on the field once or twice in the first two home games but it seemed to me that both Lemon and Butler were also on the field at the same time. But I could be wrong about that.

[doubleblue]

I can't tell whether Tuggle is a rush end or a LB. He seems to be built more like a LB, and he changed his number to 24 which is not really a d-line number. I saw him on the field once or twice in the first two home games but it seemed to me that both Lemon and Butler were also on the field at the same time. But I could be wrong about that.

I noticed he went in few times as 4th LB when Argos went to a 34 defense. Especially against Hamilton. But he rushed the QB instead of dropping back in coverage.

[OV Argo]

Jones is not a wideout type. If I had to chose a replacement for Fuller, it would be either Noel, or Ralph at this point.




He was practicing last Wednesday when I attended.


IF Jones is healthy and just sitting around on the PR or IR or something = what a waste - of a 1st round draft pick and a (maybe?) outstanding young receiver talent (college ball receiving stats + measureables - suggest this).

Again - if the current regime has no use for this guy (and would rather play Paden types), then have to think he could make pretty decent trade bait - the Ticats (Fantuz out) and Bombers, in particular, have very little NI receiving talent on their rosters. I'd be happy with a mid round draft pick or a depth/back-up type for the roster rather than see Jones waste away. The only one NI receiver need apply for playing time (and it's a running back in Coombs) thinking also means Noel and Ralph (of the outstanding pre-season) sit on the bench only. So Paden can play ???

[doubleblue]

IF Jones is healthy and just sitting around on the PR or IR or something = what a waste - of a 1st round draft pick and a (maybe?) outstanding young receiver talent (college ball receiving stats + measureables - suggest this).

Again - if the current regime has no use for this guy (and would rather play Paden types), then have to think he could make pretty decent trade bait - the Ticats (Fantuz out) and Bombers, in particular, have very little NI receiving talent on their rosters. I'd be happy with a mid round draft pick or a depth/back-up type for the roster rather than see Jones waste away. The only one NI receiver need apply for playing time (and it's a running back in Coombs) thinking also means Noel and Ralph (of the outstanding pre-season) sit on the bench only. So Paden can play ???

:ohno:OV. You would trade our last year #1 pick for a mid rounder. He is suppose to be a starter by now and another Fantuz. I guess Somebody forgot to tell Trestman. ;) Just maybe Trestman thinks Noel is going to be the better player.

However, I would trade him in a minute for Winnipeg's #2 pick this year OG Quad Spooner. If not Okafor or Vaughan from Hamilton, but Popp might not want to trade with an Eastern rival.

[paulwoods13]

To win championships, you need depth. I certainly would not give a prospect like Jones away for a mid-round pick at this point. Just because someone isn't on the 46 two weeks into the season doesn't mean he won't become a player. He may or may not be out of our plans but if he is, he's still an asset we should hold on to until something of equal or greater value is offered.

[AngeloV]

:ohno:OV. You would trade our last year #1 pick for a mid rounder. He is suppose to be a starter by now and another Fantuz. I guess Somebody forgot to tell Trestman. ;) Just maybe Trestman thinks Noel is going to be the better player.

However, I would trade him in a minute for Winnipeg's #2 pick this year OG Quad Spooner. If not Okafor or Vaughan from Hamilton, but Popp might not want to trade with an Eastern rival.

Problem is that Jones has been injured for all or part of 2 straight training camps. Hard to win a job that way. Argos like Coombs, so he plays. I have no issue with that if you are not an established talent. One thing that can't be overlooked so far is that the Argos reduced the number of back up LB types from last year, and have gone with more WR types. I know it's early, but the speed has really been evident on kick coverage where they have been much better than at any point last year.

[OV Argo]

:ohno:OV. You would trade our last year #1 pick for a mid rounder. He is suppose to be a starter by now and another Fantuz. I guess Somebody forgot to tell Trestman. ;) Just maybe Trestman thinks Noel is going to be the better player.

However, I would trade him in a minute for Winnipeg's #2 pick this year OG Quad Spooner. If not Okafor or Vaughan from Hamilton, but Popp might not want to trade with an Eastern rival.


I wouldn't trade the guy away for a roll of tape or anything, but if this "asset" is just sitting on the PR or IR and it's obvious they feel only one Canadian need apply for playing time in the 5 pack, and Noel and Ralph are around for "depth" anyways, then I'd try to at least make trade inquires with teams who are lacking at the "NI receiver position" - at this point in time. Now maybe they think that Jones just needs a bit more time and will be a good one after he "develops" more, or maybe he is nicked some, but the fact that a mediocre like Paden gets put in the line-up instead suggests to me they don't think much of Jones (or Noel or Ralph for that matter).

No way the Bummers are giving up Spooner; and Vaughn was a late round pick that all teams in the league could have valued more. I'd take a 3rd round pick and another roster young back-up guy for Jones - before he flees as a free agent anyways.

[ArgoGabe22]

SJ Green spent years on the PR and as a backup to backups. I wouldn't give up on Jones just yet.

[ArgoRavi]

SJ Green spent years on the PR and as a backup to backups. I wouldn't give up on Jones just yet.

I agree, Gabe. Far too many assumptions being made about where Jones fits in currently without having all of the facts. Further, it isn't like the Argos have been having trouble scoring points without him.

[doubleblue]

SJ Green spent years on the PR and as a backup to backups. I wouldn't give up on Jones just yet.

My beef wasn't with Brian Jones or that he may or may not be someday be a starter. Just don't think he should have be taken 6th overall when good Offensive Linemen were available in a position of need. It was baffling to me.

Also find it odd that the Argos have no French players on their roster when Quebec is the hot bed for talented players in the Country.

[Wobbler]

One thing that can't be overlooked so far is that the Argos reduced the number of back up LB types from last year, and have gone with more WR types. I know it's early, but the speed has really been evident on kick coverage where they have been much better than at any point last year.
That's an interesting point. I've enjoyed our improved coverage but wasn't sure what we were doing differently.

[paulwoods13]

That's an interesting point. I've enjoyed our improved coverage but wasn't sure what we were doing differently.

Woodson is an absolute beast on kick coverage. Flies downfield, shakes off blocks, makes tackles. Everything we would want. And he acquitted himself well when called on to play CB in week 1. Looks like a keeper.

[R.J]

Woodson is an absolute beast on kick coverage. Flies downfield, shakes off blocks, makes tackles. Everything we would want. And he acquitted himself well when called on to play CB in week 1. Looks like a keeper.
Have to agree Paul. Woodson has looked really good so far, if he keeps it up he could push himself onto the starting roster. I think he has potential at corner.

[ArgoGabe22]

Let's not forget Levi Noel is also a 'beast' on coverage teams. Seems like he makes every tackle.

[Wobbler]

Noel made a lot of tackles last year too, but our coverage was still fairly crummy. Thanks to new personnel and/or strategy, we're more effective this year (so far).

[OV Argo]

Have to agree Paul. Woodson has looked really good so far, if he keeps it up he could push himself onto the starting roster. I think he has potential at corner.


Woodson was a repeat all-star D-half in CIS ball; Canadians don't get to play D-half with modern CFL thinking (not in decades basically); perhaps he could make a fine corner; or perhaps he could be given a shot at playing time at his natural position.

Anyhow - steal of a draft pick IMO; and even if he continues to be a good special teams gunner, plus a guy who can back-up or play some reps in the D-backfield. Wonder if he would be next up at safety if Gabriel goes down?

[paulwoods13]

Let's not forget Levi Noel is also a 'beast' on coverage teams. Seems like he makes every tackle.

Noel has made six ST tackles, and Woodson four. That said, I've noticed Woodson more. But there's no question Noel is a very significant contributor on kick coverage, and has been since he arrived last season.

[AngeloV]

Noel has made six ST tackles, and Woodson four. That said, I've noticed Woodson more. But there's no question Noel is a very significant contributor on kick coverage, and has been since he arrived last season.

I've noticed Noel more. There have been a couple of occasions when a returner has tried to go wide, and I was really impressed with Noel's ability to close speed and turn him back inside. No tackle for him, but responsible for the stop.