GAME THREAD - Week 4: Toronto Argonauts at Winnipeg Blue Bombers

[Will]

Thursday, July 13, 2017 at 8:30 PM

I don't really know what to make of Winnipeg so far although I think the game is quite winnable.

[Scooter McCray]

Another game on 5 days rest. On the road this time. I think if they get off to a slow start they won't be able to come all the way back this time. Establish run and try to keep it close. Who does the scheduling in the CFL? Jeffrey Orridge? Ottawa's schedule is brutal with both bye weeks in October.

[mchesher03]

Tough one on the road again and with only 5 days rest to boot as already mentioned.

That said it is a winnable game and puts this team in the drivers seat heading into the next home game against the redblacks.

Would be nice to be 3-1 going into that Ottawa game but you never know. That said, if that O-Line can hold up, we may see another ricky ray show.

[paulwoods13]

Another game on 5 days rest. On the road this time. I think if they get off to a slow start they won't be able to come all the way back this time. Establish run and try to keep it close. Who does the scheduling in the CFL? Jeffrey Orridge? Ottawa's schedule is brutal with both bye weeks in October.

Ottawa is in a brutal stretch right now but the fact is, in an 81-game schedule over 20 weeks, one team always has to play an extra game in one week. This year Ottawa drew the short straw -- it has been the Argos for the past several seasons. Not to mention we didn't always get full-length bye weeks, had to go on the road for weeks at a time, etc. A lot of that was not the league's fault, but the bleating from Ottawa over their "terrible" schedule makes me laugh -- nothing Ottawa has this year is as bad as what we had in 2016, 2015, 2014, ....

[Wobbler]

I don't know how well we match up with the Bombers, but I'd love to see a better start this week. Seven penalties (by seven different players) in the first ten minutes on Saturday was pretty disappointing. If that keeps happening, Trestman's reputation for attention to detail will be seriously called into question.

Frank says that Bishop and Worthy will be out, but Whitaker will go this week (http://slam.canoe.com/Slam/Football/CFL/Toronto/2017/07/10/22737146.html?cid=rsssportscfl). Wynn will replace Bishop, and presumably Jackson will dress to replace Worthy.

[ArgoRavi]

The Bombers' defence looks quite vulnerable. The key for the Argos, as is usually the case, is not to turnover the ball. Might S.J. Green have another big game on Thursday night?

[AngeloV]

Funny listening to TSN Radio Winnipeg yesterday. They were talking about the Bombers having a short week and didn't even acknowledge the fact the Argos week is shorter and they have to travel.

[gilthethrill]

The Bombers' defence looks quite vulnerable. The key for the Argos, as is usually the case, is not to turnover the ball. Might S.J. Green have another big game on Thursday night?

I feel,it noteworthy that fine LB Ian Wild will miss possibly 6 games due to injury.

[Jon Gonzo]

Yep, Ian Wild, Tristan O, Bruce Johnson, Kevin Fogg (who has played a couple of great games against the Argos) are all injured. I think RR will be working some seam patterns and playing some long ball. Like to see the run game get going a little bit. BWhit is still a little sore, maybe Wilder Jr. can come in a have a big game too. Time for his to flash a little.

[Scooter McCray]

Ottawa is in a brutal stretch right now but the fact is, in an 81-game schedule over 20 weeks, one team always has to play an extra game in one week. This year Ottawa drew the short straw -- it has been the Argos for the past several seasons. Not to mention we didn't always get full-length bye weeks, had to go on the road for weeks at a time, etc. A lot of that was not the league's fault, but the bleating from Ottawa over their "terrible" schedule makes me laugh -- nothing Ottawa has this year is as bad as what we had in 2016, 2015, 2014, ....nobody in professional football has had worse scheduling than the Argos with multiple seasons of 4 game road trips and no home games etc...No team has a right to complain because the Argos did it without complaint. Having said that I believe with a former player as commish we won't see those schedules again. A push for a 10th team will improve quality of play because there will never be a need to play on mess than 6 days rest.

[Wobbler]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Download the depth chart and game notes for this week's game vs. <a href="https://twitter.com/Wpg_BlueBombers">@Wpg_BlueBombers</a> ⬇️<a href="https://t.co/mHwmJPLrYv">https://t.co/mHwmJPLrYv</a><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Argos?src=hash">#Argos</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFLGameDay?src=hash">#CFLGameDay</a> <a href="https://t.co/K4YgNMCQBe">pic.twitter.com/K4YgNMCQBe</a></p>&mdash; Toronto Argonauts (@TorontoArgos) <a href="https://twitter.com/TorontoArgos/status/885138010655928320">July 12, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

- Jimmy Ralph starting at field WR!
- Paden takes Posey's spot at boundary WR; Posey was placed on the *6* game IR - that's a concern.
- Wynn takes Bishop's (1 game IR) spot
- Prukop listed on the 46 *again*?
- Jackson will dress as the kick returner, replacing Worthy; Worthy was also placed on the *6* game IR.

I don't recall hearing anything about Posey's injury.

[Wobbler]

...also, we're starting 8 NATs for the first time this year. It would be great to see Ralph take ownership of the field WR position; hopefully he can make an impression despite not getting many targets.

[paulwoods13]

Prukop isn't leaving the 46 unless he comes down with an injury, I'd say. Clearly someone tried to snag him off the PR last week. I am betting one of our eastern rivals.

[Wobbler]

I thought that to avoid honoring a PR claim, the player's employer was forced to activate him for the next game, after which he was protected from being claimed when returned to the PR.

Obviously that's not right.

Edit: According to cfldb I invented the last part of that rule entirely.

"Practice roster contracts allow a player to be signed by another club to a regular player contract, meaning the player must take an active (46-man) roster spot (sign a standard player contract). The club that currently holds the practice roster contract has the same option to sign the player to a standard player contract (and place the player on a 46-man roster spot) to avoid losing the player."

So we're stuck with Prukop on the 46 until he gets injured, gets "injured", or we decide he isn't worth the hassle.

[paulwoods13]

So we're stuck with Prukop on the 46 until he gets injured, gets "injured", or we decide he isn't worth the hassle.

While it's annoying that we have to "waste" a spot on the 46 on a guy who clearly won't dress this season except in an emergency, better that than hand an opponent a QB with potential. I wouldn't be surprised if after six games, Prukop goes to IR and Bethel-Thompson (who's likely closer to being ready to play) goes to the 46.

[ArgoRavi]

Are we actually only dressing 43 players then? Prukop didn't dress in Ottawa but there were still two scratches. Would it not make the most sense for Prukop to be one of the two scratches or does he have to be on the 44 to be protected?

[Wobbler]

Prukop was one of the scratches, Ravi. We're still dressing 44.

[OV Argo]

...also, we're starting 8 NATs for the first time this year. It would be great to see Ralph take ownership of the field WR position; hopefully he can make an impression despite not getting many targets.


OMG - NO !!!

Why wouldn't Finley - after a strong game with 2 sacks and other tough play - be given the start over this Wynn guy ? 9 NI strarters would boggle a GOB mind like Jimmy P's ?

[Wobbler]

Finley got a lot of help on his sacks; I wouldn't be in any hurry to start him. Wynn looked good in the preseason and seems like our best option at the moment.

[R.J]

All just placeholders until Cash is healthy and ready.

[Rich]

Winnipeg doesn't look as good this year as I thought they would be. I think we're gonna kick their sorry asses all over the field Thursday night. Argonauts 37 Bombers 11.

[gilthethrill]

[QUOTE=R.J;113043]All just placeholders until Cash is healthy and ready.[/QUOTE

I am expecting a big game from Dylan Wynne.

[1971GreyCup]

We're loving the local print coverage of the game in the Winnipeg Free Press. Three pages, four writers and one Canada Press (Dan Ralph) articles to digest on game day. Lots of local interest in the game. Looking forward to the wonderful sight lines offered at Investors Group Field. Transit infrastructure to the game has been improved. Show a ticket and ride for free.

[OV Argo]

Finley got a lot of help on his sacks; I wouldn't be in any hurry to start him. Wynn looked good in the preseason and seems like our best option at the moment.

Oh really? - i did not know that; has Victor Butler got any help on all his sacks this season, or was it all just him, and thus that's why all the raves for his play and sack stats ?

[Rich]

Oh really? - i did not know that; has Victor Butler got any help on all his sacks this season, or was it all just him, and thus that's why all the raves for his play and sack stats ?


I love Finley's motor, I agree he's definitely earned the right to start, but I think we'll see a lot of him tonight anyway.

[timlb01]

We're loving the local print coverage of the game in the Winnipeg Free Press. Three pages, four writers and one Canada Press (Dan Ralph) articles to digest on game day. Lots of local interest in the game. Looking forward to the wonderful sight lines offered at Investors Group Field. Transit infrastructure to the game has been improved. Show a ticket and ride for free.

Enjoy the game. Wish I was there!

[AngeloV]

Oh really? - i did not know that; has Victor Butler got any help on all his sacks this season, or was it all just him, and thus that's why all the raves for his play and sack stats ?

If you took a minute to actually watch the plays again, Butler gets his sacks by cleanly beating his guy and getting to the QB before he has a chance to release. On at least one of Finley's sacks, it was due to Harris not finding a man down field, then stepping up to avoid the rush from the end, and unfortunately for him, but not the Argos, Finley just happened to be where Harris stepped up to. Not taking anything away from Finley, he played well. But like usual, you can't admit that there is a reason why some Canadian players are back ups (other than your sorry GOB conspiracy theory).

[doubleblue]

We're loving the local print coverage of the game in the Winnipeg Free Press. Three pages, four writers and one Canada Press (Dan Ralph) articles to digest on game day. Lots of local interest in the game. Looking forward to the wonderful sight lines offered at Investors Group Field. Transit infrastructure to the game has been improved. Show a ticket and ride for free.

The Toronto Sun had 9 (nine) pages on Football yesterday. 4 pages were on a Simmons article on Johnny Bassett and Leo Cahill signing the Big Three Miami Dolphins Csonka, Kiick and Warfield for the Toronto Northmen. Five pages on the CFL including the Argos of course.

[OV Argo]

I love Finley's motor, I agree he's definitely earned the right to start, but I think we'll see a lot of him tonight anyway.

He might have earned some respect to play more in the D-line rotation - which most CFL teams do lots now, but the Argos did not seem to do in the first game of the year. The D could evolve as the season goes on, with more guys earning the confidence of the coaches to get more playing time. Finley has several years of CFL roster and some playing time experience with the Als to learn and get his game together. Younger guys like Woodson or Onyeka might step-up too.

[argolio]

Look forward to seeing what Jimmy Ralph can do. He has earned being the "next man up" after putting in the work in camp.

Short weeks always worry me, but a win at a West team would be huge. Or very large.

[Bleeds Double Blue]

As usual I am hoping for an Argo win but will settle for a good competitive game and no Rod Black. Maybe not in that order.

[Wobbler]

Prukop will dress today. We're sitting Mathews (and Campbell).

[ArgoZ]

Another new uniform combination. Looks good, but white helmets would be proper/better. Go Ralph!

[Neely2005]

Off to another great start.
:-(

[Argo57]

Another new uniform combination. Looks good, but white helmets would be proper/better. Go Ralph!

Personally I think this the Argos best uniform.

[Argo57]

Off to another great start.
:-(

Tyler Holmes cleanly beaten (again) on the sack, then illegal hands to the face penalty, hopefully his night gets better!

[jerrym]

Great job by Martese Jackson of tightroping down the sideline for a TD!

[Fumblitis]

This drive with 10 minutes in the second quarter. Before SJ Green made that great catch he threw a great block on the previous play to spring Armanti Edwards for the first down. What a well rounded receiver...

[Wobbler]

Yikes. First our kickoff return TD is taken away by a bad call, then we drop *two* TD passes. Ouch.

[Bleeds Double Blue]

That bad call just cost some woman a million bucks. Safeway breathes a sigh of relief.

[ArgoZ]

I liked Jackson all pre-season. We got ourselves a returner.

[Wobbler]

I didn't think he did much against BC, but he looks like an all star now.

[ArgoGabe22]

Penalties......

Noel's flag was bullshit.

[jerrym]

A much more exciting first half than last week.

[ArgoZ]

That bad call just cost some woman a million bucks. Safeway breathes a sigh of relief. Major bummer. One more half for fate to make it right.

[Argo57]

You've got to be f**king kidding!!!

[Bleeds Double Blue]

The officiating crew is having a tough night.

[Argo57]

The officiating crew is having a tough night.

Like pretty much every night.

[Argo57]

Weak play call (and weaker blocking) on second down by the Argos.

[larz-7]

a touch down on this drive would be nice

[larz-7]

oh well

[Argo57]

I guess headshots to the QB's are fair game?

[Bleeds Double Blue]

Ricky Ray takes an elbow to the face. No call. Great game Zebras.

[jerrym]

I don't know which is worse the poor officiating or Argos' bad penalties.

[jerrym]

TJ Heath puts an exclamation mark on how bad the Willy trade with an interception that ends Argos' last chance.

[Will]

Officiating was brutal, but I hope fellow #Argos (https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/argos?source=feed_text&story_id=10159227208595105) fans realize that it isn't ultimately was cost them the game. Nobody told #Argos to 1) Surrender opening kickoff of game for TD, 2) Edwards & Whitaker drop easy TD's in endzone, 3) Bombers yardage total isn't significant, but D did allow several long drives, 4) Bombers OL kept #Argos pass rush in check.

[larz-7]

I guess headshots to the QB's are fair game?
Depends.

[doubleblue]

Tough loss in a winnable game. Who wants to be an official. Poor woman loses a million on that call. Noel wasn't trying to block just accidental contact. They should give the woman at least half the prize.
Oh yeah JJ Heath looked pretty good.

[Neely2005]

Our players can't keep dropping very catchable balls in the endzone.

[doubleblue]

I guess headshots to the QB's are fair game?

Should be a fine coming from the league office on that one.

[Neely2005]

That bad call just cost some woman a million bucks. Safeway breathes a sigh of relief.

They probably have contest insurance.

[Bleeds Double Blue]

Poor woman loses a million on that call. Noel wasn't trying to block just accidental contact. They should give the woman at least half the prize.

No way anyone at Safeway is answering the phone tonight.

[gilthethrill]

Winnipeg continues its trend from last season by getting very favorable calls. Must catch those balls in the endzone however. Protecting the QB is last year's news.

[larz-7]

They probably have contest insurance.
ya ref gets 500 dollar gift card to use at his local safeway.

[doubleblue]

ya ref gets 500 dollar gift card to use at his local safeway.

Lol. You aren't hinting at a conspiracy are you? :)

I wonder if Glen Johnson actually fines his officials for bad calls. Probably not because they could always show him tapes of all his bad ones.

[Will]

Lost in all of this is that Ray seemed in discomfort walking off the field after the INT.

[larz-7]

Lol. You aren't hinting at a conspiracy are you? :)

I wonder if Glen Johnson actually fines his officials for bad calls. Probably not because they could always show him tapes of all his bad ones.
no whats funny guess where Glen Johnson used to work.

[Rich]

the Noel non-block
the phantom PI on Sears
the call on Ball for getting his facemask stuck
roughing the passer at the end
We really got killed by the refs. But the game was ours for the taking and we gave it away. Ricky was off, the receivers were terrible, and on D I think the front 4 was just gassed by the 4th quarter, I think the short week caught up with them. 3-1 would have been so sweet, publicity-wise, but if casual fans watched this game on TV (on a night with no baseball) they saw a pretty damn entertaining game.

[ArgoRavi]

Lost in all of this is that Ray seemed in discomfort walking off the field after the INT.

And the offensive line really can't be blamed for that as it was a dirty, cheap, late hit that should have been called by the officials. Disgusting!

[matthew]

Isn't it a chance to win. Isn't it just that they qualify for season end draw for million?

[mchesher03]

My takeaways -



Game was ours for the taking absolutely – to have 22 points going into the half and end up with 25 – not good enough.
Refs became a factor in this game (seemed like every iffy call went winnipeg’s way) but like I said above, still winnable – these things happen in football
Receiving depth appeared to be an issue – several times I felt he forced it to SJ Green (possibly because other options weren’t there and most of the time – Green comes down with it)
This additional time Ricky was looking for, our O Line wasn’t able to provide. Feel like he was under pressure a fair bit
On the flip side our D Line didn’t seem to be generating the usual pressure – leading to our secondary being picked apart a bit imo
Martese Jackson – wow! He has another level, looked really impressive
Those two endzone drops by Coombs and Edwards on that one first half possession were disappointing – think that was off the huge Jackson return and phantom “block in the back” call


Such is life though, 2-2 and have Ottawa at home next Monday, winnable game but won’t be easy. Well it’s fun to be competitive again (the bar sank abysmally low last year), this team is capable of more and I could make the argument, is capable of being 4-0 right now.

[RB957]

the Noel non-block
the phantom PI on Sears
the call on Ball for getting his facemask stuck
roughing the passer at the end
We really got killed by the refs. But the game was ours for the taking and we gave it away. Ricky was off, the receivers were terrible, and on D I think the front 4 was just gassed by the 4th quarter, I think the short week caught up with them. 3-1 would have been so sweet, publicity-wise, but if casual fans watched this game on TV (on a night with no baseball) they saw a pretty damn entertaining game.

The game was entertaining and we could have won it despite everything. Seven lead changes made it pretty exciting. Hopefully enough to draw some more interest.

[RB957]

My takeaways -



Game was ours for the taking absolutely – to have 22 points going into the half and end up with 25 – not good enough.
Refs became a factor in this game (seemed like every iffy call went winnipeg’s way) but like I said above, still winnable – these things happen in football
Receiving depth appeared to be an issue – several times I felt he forced it to SJ Green (possibly because other options weren’t there and most of the time – Green comes down with it)
This additional time Ricky was looking for, our O Line wasn’t able to provide. Feel like he was under pressure a fair bit
On the flip side our D Line didn’t seem to be generating the usual pressure – leading to our secondary being picked apart a bit imo
Martese Jackson – wow! He has another level, looked really impressive
Those two endzone drops by Coombs and Edwards on that one first half possession were disappointing – think that was off the huge Jackson return and phantom “block in the back” call


Such is life though, 2-2 and have Ottawa at home next Monday, winnable game but won’t be easy. Well it’s fun to be competitive again (the bar sank abysmally low last year), this team is capable of more and I could make the argument, is capable of being 4-0 right now.


I agree with your points. My biggest concerns after 4 games are the lack of a strong running game and pass protection- both of which involve the O line. Our offense is 91% pass, so far which makes it easier to defend against and allows opponent's pass rushers to tee it up. Ricky Ray is getting hit way too often. This needs to be addressed if we are going to be really successful.

[mchesher03]

Even with o-line struggles I think a Jeff Fuller or Posey back in the lineup helps tremendously, give ricky more options and relieve some of that pressure a bit. I forget which receiver it was but one was just running simple slants against the ticats to get success – quick release by Ricky, 8-12 yards every play.

[RB957]

Another thing... what is it about playing the Argos that makes Andre Harris look like Superman? As I recall, he ripped us apart last year too.

[Argo]

I agree with your points. My biggest concerns after 4 games are the lack of a strong running game and pass protection- both of which involve the O line. Our offense is 91% pass, so far which makes it easier to defend against and allows opponent's pass rushers to tee it up. Ricky Ray is getting hit way too often. This needs to be addressed if we are going to be really successful.

“Any time you get the run game going it just opens up so much more,” said Harris.

... _ _ _ ...

[Jon Gonzo]

My main concern this season, has been our run game. Argos have to flash it, or they'll get caved in. Look at what it did to our front 7

[ArgoGabe22]

I don't know if Ray had an off night. With the line we have and the lack of a run game, I think the expectation should be that Ray will a) be pressured b) throw off back foot c) get hit a lot. Given all that, he did fairly well, should've had 2-3 TD passes. Shame about the interceptions.

[Jon Gonzo]

Agreed. I think Ricky did his job. Lack of run game, penalties (terrible game from the officials) and then a couple of mistimed drops. Work that run game, and don't let the lineman pin their ears like we've been seeing around here for too long, with a QB who can't move much. That spells trouble. I'd be surprised if Rickey doesn't have a concussion today.

[paulwoods13]

Our o-line is really struggling this year. The guards, and in particular Holmes, have had a succession of rough outings. I noticed Deane got at least one series at RG (and took a hands-to-the-face penalty). We have nothing resembling a run game; while we don't try to run as often as I'd like, when we do there is almost never a hole for the back.

I've been worried since week 1 about playing Lemon and Butler every down. They looked worn out last night. And maybe Bishop was more important than we realized -- no sacks last night without him after three weeks of mostly dominant play.

Without Posey, we seem to lack a real deep threat. Green is excellent but not a fast guy, and I don't think any of the others who played last night have major wheels.

Jackson certainly showed what he is capable of as a returner.

[Will]

We knew that RG might be an issue with Watman and/or Deane, but the fact that LG is an issue (mind you Holmes wasn't great last year) is certainly not helpful.

[jojoheath]

How many passes have we dropped in the endzone this year? not just tonight, but in 4 games...at least 5 by my count. It was same thing last year.

[mchesher03]

3 last night alone.

[Jon Gonzo]

I have mentioned this before, but I talked to an O Lineman here in Ottawa who has played against Bishop, and he called him 'very strong.' I think he soaks up blocks and lets the others freelance a little more. I have also found that these little fan boards tend to settle in on who they want to target and pick on and then it seems to become reality.

The only things they see after that, are the negatives.

AK was one, Bishop was one, Heath when he was here, Van Zeyl, Van Roten; guys who have been very good.

Interesting comment about our Guards. I'll iso them more coming up and see if I can see what you are seeing. Holmes has been a solid pro, so it would surprise me if that didn't continue. Injury would be about the only explanation there? I know fans like to get on Watman; but coaches seem to like him. Reminds me of Wayne Smith. Fans were counting him out for about 5 years in a row.

At the end of the day, the O-Line does need an upgrade. I wouldn't mind seeing Van Roten back in there playing Guard to be honest. We need to run the ball and Ricky needs another beat or two.

[Argo]

Our o-line is really struggling this year. The guards, and in particular Holmes, have had a succession of rough outings. I noticed Deane got at least one series at RG (and took a hands-to-the-face penalty). We have nothing resembling a run game; while we don't try to run as often as I'd like, when we do there is almost never a hole for the back.

I've been worried since week 1 about playing Lemon and Butler every down. They looked worn out last night. And maybe Bishop was more important than we realized -- no sacks last night without him after three weeks of mostly dominant play.

Without Posey, we seem to lack a real deep threat. Green is excellent but not a fast guy, and I don't think any of the others who played last night have major wheels.

Jackson certainly showed what he is capable of as a returner.

All true. There are, and should be, concerns (although, happily, the team is apparently now well and truly on an upward trajectory; such a refreshing change).

I remember back in the day - when the only thing that the Argos had was a rather decent yet invariably worn down defence - Montreal, in particular, running the ball very often and thereby bulldozing the Argos into a spent mass.

[Scooter McCray]

The league should never schedule team's to play on 5 days rest ever. There is no excuse for it or play more than 2 weeks on the road. The fact the Argos have already done this twice in 4 weeks and other teams are playing 4 games in 17 days is insane. It speaks to laziness at league office and lack of will to find a solution. They are asking for poor play and injuries.

[REAL]

How many passes have we dropped in the endzone this year? not just tonight, but in 4 games...at least 5 by my count. It was same thing last year.

Drop passes happen sometimes, not sure what was happening last night. Maybe some of the more esteemed knowledgeable experienced posters can better explain :D

[Neely2005]

How many passes have we dropped in the endzone this year? not just tonight, but in 4 games...at least 5 by my count. It was same thing last year.

6 so far I think.