GAME THREAD / Week 7 / Stamps @ Argos

[Wobbler]

https://s4.postimg.org/5gkbwo3y1/cal.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/5gkbwo3y1/) @ https://s1.postimg.org/x7sp836mj/argos.gif (https://postimg.org/image/x7sp836mj/)

We haven't been able to beat any Western teams, we're vulnerable to the run, and we're coming off a demoralizing defeat. Calgary is a Western team, they run very effectively, and are coming off a historic victory.

Obviously, we should lose this game.

There could be a few interesting wrinkles. Everyone we put on the 6-game to start the year (Bethel-Thompson, Cash, Waud, Woods, Wylie) *might* now be available. Since there were reports that Cash practiced last week he seems very likely to dress. Who knows about the others.

[Neely2005]

This is going to be a tough one. We have to stop letting games slip away.

[mchesher03]

No way around it, this one will be tough. That said, what I’m looking for:


Time for Fuller to step up, so far he’s the polar opposite of SJ Green in my view – Green coming up with everything and Fuller coming up with nothing. Gotta start making some of those catches
Cooooooooombs – man he’s been a joy to watch so far, luckily he’s stepped into that Andre Durie role and ran with it so far. Credit to the former regime for trading for the draft slot and picking this guy.
D line – these guys need to get some pressure, Lemon has been neutralized as of late and no Laing and Butler on Saturday showed. Hope those other guys pick it up on Thursday.
Malcolm Williams – has had a great last couple games, in my view much more reliable than Fuller right now anyways
Sears – has been quite dependable this year, minus that brain fart on Saturday. Hope he returns to being a dependable guy this game and shakes that off.
Thought Owusu-Ansah played well on Saturday, headcase Duron Carter just made some good catches.
Wilder – same as the past few weeks, get after it, less east-west running and more downhill running like Jerome Messam.

[gilthethrill]

Calgary is out of breath after Saturday nights decisive win.

[Stevoman]

Going to be a tough game and I know it doesn't work this way but I'm hoping that Calgary used up a lot of points last week and are feeling a little too full of themselves. I don't think the Argos loss was demoralizing and see them coming out strong.

[R.J]

Stamps seem off this year. I think the Argonauts should win this one.

[gilthethrill]

Stamps seem off this year. I think the Argonauts should win this one.

Actually they do....I was thinking the same thing until Saturday night.

[Argo57]

Stamps seem off this year. I think the Argonauts should win this one.

Argos will need their A game for 60 minutes.

[Argo57]

No way around it, this one will be tough. That said, what I’m looking for:


Time for Fuller to step up, so far he’s the polar opposite of SJ Green in my view – Green coming up with everything and Fuller coming up with nothing. Gotta start making some of those catches
Cooooooooombs – man he’s been a joy to watch so far, luckily he’s stepped into that Andre Durie role and ran with it so far. Credit to the former regime for trading for the draft slot and picking this guy.
D line – these guys need to get some pressure, Lemon has been neutralized as of late and no Laing and Butler on Saturday showed. Hope those other guys pick it up on Thursday.
Malcolm Williams – has had a great last couple games, in my view much more reliable than Fuller right now anyways
Sears – has been quite dependable this year, minus that brain fart on Saturday. Hope he returns to being a dependable guy this game and shakes that off.
Thought Owusu-Ansah played well on Saturday, headcase Duron Carter just made some good catches.
Wilder – same as the past few weeks, get after it, less east-west running and more downhill running like Jerome Messam.




Same thought went through my mind in regards to Fuller, he needs to start making some of those catches or he may be replaced.

[Argo]

Stamps seem off this year. I think the Argonauts should win this one.

Argos, without the handful of key injuries, would match up rather well against Team Winning Formula.

Even missing important personnel I expect a good effort.

Of course CFL officiating is always a concern.

[ArgoRavi]

35 years ago this week, the Argos upset the dynasty Eskimos at home in one of the most notable regular season wins in the club's history. The Stamps are the closest thing to a dynasty in this league right now given how consistently strong they have been over the past number of years. Might history repeat this week?

[mchesher03]

Same thought went through my mind in regards to Fuller, he needs to start making some of those catches or he may be replaced.

Yeah he’s just the polar opposite of guys like SJ Green and Armanti Edwards who I feel like are catching everything thrown their way, especially SJ!

Although he had a couple bad drops himself, looking forward to Posey getting back in and I think he replaces Fuller unless he can step it up a bit. Thursday would be a great time to start.

[AngeloV]

Yeah he’s just the polar opposite of guys like SJ Green and Armanti Edwards who I feel like are catching everything thrown their way, especially SJ!

Although he had a couple bad drops himself, looking forward to Posey getting back in and I think he replaces Fuller unless he can step it up a bit. Thursday would be a great time to start.


In his defence, SJ is SJ. As good as anyone at catching contested balls. Edwards hasn't exactly been thrown any of those types of passes. He did have a contested ball in the endzone in Winnipeg which he couldn't hang on to, so let's be fair here. I would love to see them use Fuller on more slant and in routes where he can use his big body to shield defenders. Having said that, I can see him being a healthy scratch when Posey returns.

[mchesher03]

Was it posey hauling in those slant passes in the opener / drubbing of the ticats? Man, those were a thing of beauty.

[Wobbler]

We just took Whitaker off the 6 game IR early. And by early I mean REALLY early - five weeks early. Obviously he was never actually hurt.

I think it's safe to say that the James Wilder experiment is over for now.

[mchesher03]

Interesting development – wonder if whittaker is on the depth chart for tomorrow’s game in that case?

[Wobbler]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Download the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Argos?src=hash">#Argos</a> depth chart for the team&#39;s Week 7 matchup vs. <a href="https://twitter.com/calstampeders">@calstampeders</a>.<br><br>🗒 » <a href="https://t.co/iyqqeghc92">https://t.co/iyqqeghc92</a><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFLGameDay?src=hash">#CFLGameDay</a> <a href="https://t.co/xjFzaGmHZ3">pic.twitter.com/xjFzaGmHZ3</a></p>&mdash; Toronto Argonauts (@TorontoArgos) <a href="https://twitter.com/TorontoArgos/status/892764489568964608">August 2, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[gilthethrill]

I see Darryl Waud is making his 2017 debut. Could use Bishop or Cash too. Hopefully soon.

[Wobbler]

Interesting that Sears is "injured"; Qudarius Ford has his HB spot.

Nice to see Waud back.

[AngeloV]

Armanti Edwards out. He took a nasty hit Saturday. I was surprised to see him come back in the game.

[mchesher03]

Looks like it’s time for Big Will Campbell to shine with Brandon Washington on the 1 game injury list too.

As someone who also follows Michigan football, big will has had a bit of a rough go of things, a 5 star hs recruit at D-Tackle and got flipped between OL and DL a bit in college and I think stuck with the Jets briefly as a OL before ending up here.

Hopefully he can get the job done tomorrow.

[Stevoman]

Did the Sears mistake cost him a position this week? Also, nice to see Whitaker back. I think Wilder has tremendous potential but Whitaker is much more consistent.

[AngeloV]

Did the Sears mistake cost him a position this week? Also, nice to see Whitaker back. I think Wilder has tremendous potential but Whitaker is much more consistent.

Actually, IMO, Wilder has out performed Whitaker this season.

[ArgoGabe22]

Actually, IMO, Wilder has out performed Whitaker this season.

Not sure what their blocking was like for either but from just running, I think it's difficult to say one is better than the other given the lack of room both are given to run with the line. Wilder has more potential to cause damage by running through defenders but I still don't see that as much as i would like to.

[AngeloV]

Not sure what their blocking was like for either but from just running, I think it's difficult to say one is better than the other given the lack of room both are given to run with the line. Wilder has more potential to cause damage by running through defenders but I still don't see that as much as i would like to.

Wilder has yet to be stopped on short yardage this season as a runner. He converts those 2nd and 2's that we have had so much trouble with. I really wish they would have given him the ball when they had first and goal on the 5 last week.

[Wobbler]

I was going to express concern about whether 170 lb Ford was big enough to deal with slotbacks, but then I realized that he's a beast compared to (160 lb) Josh Mitchell, who was doing a pretty good job for us until he got hurt.

So, uh, never mind.

[Neely2005]

Hard to disagree but I'm not sure what they can do?

http://calgaryherald.com/sports/football/cfl/calgary-stampeders/mitchell-bmo-endzones-could-amount-to-bad-scene

[Shatto]

It is an interesting question. Is it the transition of grass to turf or is it the quality of the turf itself? Noticed Cross slipped at the end of the end zone so it suggests the quality of the turf may be the issue.

Also does anyone have any inside information of what is happening with the Argo's practice field? Right now they are still at York Un but with the university team scheduled to begin soon, will that have to change?

[1971GreyCup]

I think the Argos might move to Don Bosco from York U.

[ArgoZ]

It is an interesting question. Is it the transition of grass to turf or is it the quality of the turf itself? Noticed Cross slipped at the end of the end zone so it suggests the quality of the turf may be the issue.


Not enough information being presented in that article, only complaining. I assume the only issue is players slipping. So why are they doing so? Whenever I wear cleats, they have been fine on turf, so are they wearing the wrong shoes or is it sub par turf? Turf shoes are not the greatest on wet grass, but I havent heard of the opposite.

[Will]

I think the Argos might move to Don Bosco from York U.

Right away? I thought any sort of facility at that location was more of an intermediate or long-term project.

[Neely2005]

Not enough information being presented in that article, only complaining. I assume the only issue is players slipping. So why are they doing so? Whenever I wear cleats, they have been fine on turf, so are they wearing the wrong shoes or is it sub par turf? Turf shoes are not the greatest on wet grass, but I havent heard of the opposite.

I think it's the transition from grass on the field to turf in the endzone that causes the problem. Especially since they're usually hitting that transition with a lot of speed.

[Bleeds Double Blue]

I just saw that the club has released Matt Black and Devon Wylie. Not sure what to think of this since I am not close enough to the situation to form an informed opinion. Any comments or should this have its own thread?

[Wobbler]

It was discussed in the transactions thread.

[Joe Barnes]

I think it's the transition from grass on the field to turf in the endzone that causes the problem. Especially since they're usually hitting that transition with a lot of speed.

It looks to me like a turf quality issue. You look at other stadiums with modern Field Turf surfaces and they really resemble grass. They look (at least) like a good surface to run on and not too hard on the body. When the players run and get tackled they kick up those black beads. This doesn't happen at BMO - the endzones look like the indoor/outdoor on my parents front steps back in the '80's! Argos only get the stadium on game days, so not sure what they can do...

[AngeloV]

Not enough information being presented in that article, only complaining. I assume the only issue is players slipping. So why are they doing so? Whenever I wear cleats, they have been fine on turf, so are they wearing the wrong shoes or is it sub par turf? Turf shoes are not the greatest on wet grass, but I havent heard of the opposite.

They definitely wear different length of cleats on grass than they do on field turf. Likely the longer cleats worn on grass is what can create the problem when they go into the endzone.

[gilthethrill]

They definitely wear different length of cleats on grass than they do on field turf. Likely the longer cleats worn on grass is what can create the problem when they go into the endzone.

I suggest Calgary stay out of the endzone tonight just to be safe.

[Wobbler]

But we should probably send a few guys in there to test it, right? That seems wise.

[jerrym]

If the Argos are to have a chance, they need to contain Messam. If they cannot do that, the combination of Calgary running and passing will run up the score. It could happen even if they hold Messam in check, but without that they are out of luck.

[ArgoZ]

Argos score first! Take that deadly turf endzone!

[jerrym]

Mr. Reliable comes through again with a TD reception.

[jerrym]

I don't understand why Trestman threw the challenge flag, especially with only one challenge per game now. The chances of overturning the defensive pass interference was so low. Unfortunately, Calgary almost immediately ends the Argo lead

[jerrym]

Whitaker's ten yard run was a result of his quickness, something that was sorely missing with Wilder.

[Bleeds Double Blue]

I tried watching the game on TV and listening to Hogan on the computer but the radio broadcast is two plays behind. (sigh) By the way, what's the over under on how many times Rod Black calls Messam the Brampton Bus? I say 9.

[jerrym]

Roy Finch is determined to make up for his fumble, with great returns every time, ending in a 103 yard TD, leaving the Argos down 17-7. The Argos need to respond quickly in order to avoid Calgary rolling up the score. Hajrullahu needs to focus more on hang time than distance against Finch.

[Bleeds Double Blue]

On that punt return touchdown by Finch #85 for Calgary had a man-sized hold on Matt Webster. No call with the ref standing right beside them. C'mon.

[jerrym]

Great stop by Bear Woods on Messam! It helps limit Stampeders to a FG and less than a 2TD/convert lead.

[Argo57]

Argo D hanging tough, O-Line continues to struggle.

[jerrym]

Ray had an open receiver nearby but held on too long on his fumble. Fortunately, the Argos quickly recovered Messam's fumble and got a FG out of it.

[jerrym]

Argos fail to stop a last minute drive by Calgary, resulting in a 17 point lead with one second left.

[Argo57]

This could get really ugly soon, Calgary good at burying teams when they get a lead.

[Bleeds Double Blue]

I might go blind here from watching Dunigan's suit.

[Neely2005]

With how bad CFL refereeing is maybe they should be giving them more challenges.
:)

[larz-7]

how many times again do we here Fuller almost makes a catch

[jerrym]

Marquay McDaniel puts on a pass reception show leading to a TD and a close to insurmountable 24 point lead.

[jerrym]

how many times again do we here Fuller almost makes a catch

I'd be happy to see him cut.

[jerrym]

Martese Jackson has been the one shining light for the Argos with another fine 64 yard return.

[jerrym]

Ugh! Ray is holding his arm. With a 24 point deficit, the Argos should go with Fajardo for the rest of the game, even if Ray is not seriously hurt.

[jerrym]

Ray grimaces on the sidelines after throwing one pass. Hopefully he is not gone long-term.

[larz-7]

missed it what happened to Ray

[Argo57]

Well, let's see how serious Ray's injury is.
Worrisome is the fact that it is his surgically repaired shoulder, damn shame he is having a good year.
Didn't realize that the Argo backups get no reps in practice.

[Antwon]

On that punt return touchdown by Finch #85 for Calgary had a man-sized hold on Matt Webster. No call with the ref standing right beside them. C'mon.

EXACTLY hard to beat a good team when the refs are against you!

[jerrym]

Although Fajardo shadows Ray in practice, he gets no reps, while Dickenson gives his QB backups the most backup reps in the leagues. With Buckley going 10/10 last week and 2/2 this week up to this point, the difference in reps can be seen in its effect on their level of play up to this point. If Ray is injured, Fajardo is likely to face a challenging baptism of fire.

[Shipyard]

Well, let's see how serious Ray's injury is.
Worrisome is the fact that it is his surgically repaired shoulder, damn shame he is having a good year.
Didn't realize that the Argo backups get no reps in practice.

i doubt its long term (ie. serious / season ending) with ray ... they would have his pads off with ice on it right away. my guess a week or two if he tweaked it. its not like he landed on it .. arm got hit while in throwing motion.

Fajardo looked ok ... good dual threat guy

[jerrym]

Great to see Fajardo score and his good running ability, but his inexperience shows in his focusing on running over passing.

[larz-7]

Although Fajardo shadows Ray in practice, he gets no reps, while Dickenson gives his QB backups the most backup reps in the leagues. With Buckley going 10/10 last week and 2/2 this week up to this point, the difference in reps can be seen in its effect on their level of play up to this point. If Ray is injured, Fajardo is likely to face a challenging baptism of fire.
For some strange reason i think Fajardo might turn a few heads if indeed he is needed.

[OV Argo]

What a beat-down by the Stumps - Argos out-gunned in all phases of the game.

O-line is a big issue IMO - and particularly at guard; Watman & Holmes have been weak or pylon like at times; like to see top draft pick Mason Woods given a shot to see if he can help - massive size and natural OG experience.

Fajardo has some wheels for a QB - impressive and his arms looks decent too.

Finley with 2 sacks at least one bright spot on the D.

Like to see Noel, Jones or even Ralph in for Fuller, but doubt that is going to happen.

[Shirley]

Great to see Fajardo score and his good running ability, but his inexperience shows in his focusing on running over passing.

He completed a beautiful long pass to Green, no first team reps. I will be very disappointed if he does not get the start against Montreal. As 1050 am went off air Trestman would not state that Cody would get the start. We shafted Dan Lef...... last year, I thought this new management was above that kind of stuff. Hoping they are. Other than Ricky Ray, nobody else should be starting against Montreal but Cody, and he should be told he is the guy while RR is down period

[Shirley]

Fajardo I think will be special if given the chance, he should be the future of the franchise


What a beat-down by the Stumps - Argos out-gunned in all phases of the game.

O-line is a big issue IMO - and particularly at guard; Watman & Holmes have been weak or pylon like at times; like to see top draft pick Mason Woods given a shot to see if he can help - massive size and natural OG experience.

Fajardo has some wheels for a QB - impressive and his arms looks decent too.

Finley with 2 sacks at least one bright spot on the D.

Like to see Noel, Jones or even Ralph in for Fuller, but doubt that is going to happen.

[Shirley]

Absolutely correct


for some strange reason i think fajardo might turn a few heads if indeed he is needed.

[Shirley]

YES on Fajardo


What a beat-down by the Stumps - Argos out-gunned in all phases of the game.

O-line is a big issue IMO - and particularly at guard; Watman & Holmes have been weak or pylon like at times; like to see top draft pick Mason Woods given a shot to see if he can help - massive size and natural OG experience.

Fajardo has some wheels for a QB - impressive and his arms looks decent too.

Finley with 2 sacks at least one bright spot on the D.

Like to see Noel, Jones or even Ralph in for Fuller, but doubt that is going to happen.

[Shirley]

Great to see Fajardo score and his good running ability, but his inexperience shows in his focusing on running over passing.

Beauty long pass from Fajardo to Green

[Wobbler]

I only saw bits of this game, but Calgary looked way too comfortable covering our receivers. Green will get his catches and Coombs is becoming a nice option, but I'm starting to realize how much we need Devier Posey back.

In the post-game audio I think I heard Trestman mention that "Daryl" was injured. Please tell me that he was momentarily confused and talking about Daryl Bell of the University of West Florida Argonauts, and not the perpetually injured Daryl Waud.

[Neely2005]

He completed a beautiful long pass to Green, no first team reps. I will be very disappointed if he does not get the start against Montreal. As 1050 am went off air Trestman would not state that Cody would get the start. We shafted Dan Lef...... last year, I thought this new management was above that kind of stuff. Hoping they are. Other than Ricky Ray, nobody else should be starting against Montreal but Cody, and he should be told he is the guy while RR is down period

I'm pretty sure that Trestman isn't committing to Fajardo because he doesn't know if Ray will be able to play or not yet.

[Wobbler]

11,616? Well, I guess it's about the same as the Friday night BC game a few weeks back.

[Neely2005]

11,616? Well, I guess it's about the same as the Friday night BC game a few weeks back.

I'm not surprised. Weekday games just aren't going to work for the Argonauts unless there's some kind of giveaway promotion.

[Shipyard]

I'm not surprised. Weekday games just aren't going to work for the Argonauts unless there's some kind of giveaway promotion.

all the rest of our home games are saturdays at 4pm IIRC

[Stevoman]

Tough game against a tough team. I hope Ray is okay and as is Gabriel (can't afford to lose either of those two). Looking forward to when Butler and Laing are back as they sure were needed tonight. Oh well, a home and home against Montreal and then Calgary again followed by 2 Ticat games. All will be a challenge but there could be a realistic possibility of 3-4 wins over that stretch.

[Jayahre]

11,616? Well, I guess it's about the same as the Friday night BC game a few weeks back.

Yes and it looked like less fans in the stands, I would say well under 10k.
They must have used the tickets sold not scanned last night..................

Whether it's Thursday, Friday, Sunday or Monday there hasn't been much difference in attendance.

Two games against the Ticats is what this team needs. But you know that no matter how bad their record is, the Ticats will be up for the Labour Day game and probably pull it off.

[R.J]

Seems to me that Trestman doesn't trust Fajardo running the offense much, a lot of run plays early on. Still not sold on Fajardo, and I'm not liking the potential idea of him being thrown to the wolves, still not ready IMO. In saying that, maybe he needs some more reps to get comfortable, in BC Lulay was getting around 40% while being the backup, maybe with an old QB Trestman needs to change how he does things.

[paulwoods13]

I only saw bits of this game, but Calgary looked way too comfortable covering our receivers. Green will get his catches and Coombs is becoming a nice option, but I'm starting to realize how much we need Devier Posey back.

In the post-game audio I think I heard Trestman mention that "Daryl" was injured. Please tell me that he was momentarily confused and talking about Daryl Bell of the University of West Florida Argonauts, and not the perpetually injured Daryl Waud.

Waud was in civvies in the second half. Grrrr.

[Neely2005]

all the rest of our home games are saturdays at 4pm IIRC

One is @ 7PM but they're all on Saturdays.

[Neely2005]

Yes and it looked like less fans in the stands, I would say well under 10k.
They must have used the tickets sold not scanned last night..................

Whether it's Thursday, Friday, Sunday or Monday there hasn't been much difference in attendance.

Two games against the Ticats is what this team needs. But you know that no matter how bad their record is, the Ticats will be up for the Labour Day game and probably pull it off.

You know very well that the Argonauts Always use tickets scanned. The upper East side looked fuller than usual.

[Neely2005]

Marc Trestman and Ricky Ray on Argos’ QB shoulder injury:

http://3downnation.com/2017/08/03/marc-trestman-ricky-ray-argos-qb-shoulder-injury/

[Shirley]

Please tell me RJ does NOT stand for Rob Johnson :) BTW I think Fajardo is a special QB, and I believe he broke the crazy Collin K (guy that is in the news all the time)passing record at same school

Cody Fajardo set to join Colin Kaepernick in NCAA record books, this is a story from 2014

<tbody>
Nevada's Cody Fajardo enters the weekend 25 yards shy of 9,000 career passing yards.

</tbody>


Nevada senior quarterback Cody Fajardo is about to join an NCAA fraternity so exclusive that it only has one other member.


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000419827/article/cody-fajardo-set-to-join-colin-kaepernick-in-ncaa-record-books




Seems to me that Trestman doesn't trust Fajardo running the offense much, a lot of run plays early on. Still not sold on Fajardo, and I'm not liking the potential idea of him being thrown to the wolves, still not ready IMO. In saying that, maybe he needs some more reps to get comfortable, in BC Lulay was getting around 40% while being the backup, maybe with an old QB Trestman needs to change how he does things.

[Antwon]

Tough game, but we probably seen it coming.
Ray was taking more hits. Offence is around 80-90% pass.
Hopefully Trestman reviews the games and really takes notes on how Calgary's offence runs.
I just don't think in todays CFL you can be that pass heavy. The defenses today are too good and as the season goes along they start teeing it up and playing pass and getting more presure on the QB.


And I also think Fajardo has a lot of potential.

[AngeloV]

Seems to me that Trestman doesn't trust Fajardo running the offense much, a lot of run plays early on.

Probably didn't want a 2nd QB to get killed last night. May have been the worst I have ever seen from the O-line. Maybe time to look at Campbell, Sackey and Woods. Or change the way they use the ratio and add an import at guard.

[AngeloV]

I also want to say it was a pleasure meeting Ravi at the game last night. As luck would have it he bought a ticket right across the aisle from my seat. 👍👍

[Joe Barnes]

You know very well that the Argonauts Always use tickets scanned. The upper East side looked fuller than usual.

I was there and the crowd size was similar to the BC game. It ended up as 397 more than that. I'd say the announced number was accurate, though obviously disappointing. There were Calgary fans there but not nearly as many as last years game, which suprised me a bit.

[gilthethrill]

Looking at the stats one has to wonder how Calgary won by such a margin. The Finch punt return TD and that Calgary TD drive to end the 1st half really hurt. 6 sacks by the Argos looks good, but the pressure Calgary put on Ray all game was more meaningful. Argos have a ways to go.

[Wobbler]

Waud was in civvies in the second half. Grrrr.
Sigh...

I'm happy for Daryl Bell though.

[Argo57]

Probably didn't want a 2nd QB to get killed last night. May have been the worst I have ever seen from the O-line. Maybe time to look at Campbell, Sackey and Woods. Or change the way they use the ratio and add an import at guard.

Both guards have looked like human turnstiles at times, can't believe how bad Holmes has played after looking so promising earlier in his career.

[doubleblue]

Both guards have looked like human turnstiles at times, can't believe how bad Holmes has played after looking so promising earlier in his career.

That hit on Ricky came around Van Zeyl just like Tracy did last year that put Ricky out. I thought they should have gone to more tight end formations in the second half to at least give Ricky some time. Still think Wilder could be used as a TE part of the time and if no body comes he releases for a short pass over the middle. He's dangerous when he gets in the open with the ball, a tough guy to bring down. Running inside, that's a different story.
Normally it is the left tackle who protects the QB blind side, but with Ricky it seems his right side needs the extra blocker outside of Van Zeyl.

[Argo57]

That hit on Ricky came around Van Zeyl just like Tracy did last year that put Ricky out. I thought they should have gone to more tight end formations in the second half to at least give Ricky some time. Still think Wilder could be used as a TE part of the time and if no body comes he releases for a short pass over the middle. He's dangerous when he gets in the open with the ball, a tough guy to bring down. Running inside, that's a different story.
Normally it is the left tackle who protects the QB blind side, but with Ricky it seems his right side needs the extra blocker outside of Van Zeyl.

Not talking about that particular hit, Holmes clearly beaten on an earlier sack which has actually happened several times this season.

[Shatto]

Some rambling observations about the game:
.The D wasn't great but received no help from the offense. 6 QB sacks and deserved better from the offense
.Gabriel looked banged up when he came off --replaced by Webster not Woodson. Webster missed a couple of open field tackles he should have made
.Running game practically non-existent.
.Fuller does not get separation and now not winning the battles for the ball.
.OL looked porous but with no running game the Stamps were pressuring Ray all night. Only had 3 sacks but around Ray all night
.Fajardo ran successfully as soon as he came in. He was the team's top rusher.
.The north end zone is a disgrace--players slipping all night.
.Down 41-13 in 4th --why go for a field goal when they need TD's to get back in the game?
.Another pathetic crowd but they were lively until the game got out of hand. Many left well before game was over.

[ArgoRavi]

I also want to say it was a pleasure meeting Ravi at the game last night. As luck would have it he bought a ticket right across the aisle from my seat. 

Nice meeting you, Argolio and your other buddy last night too, AV! You're an entertaining and knowledgeable bunch to be around.

[argolio]

Nice meeting you, Argolio and your other buddy last night too, AV! You're an entertaining and knowledgeable bunch to be around.Tell the truth: we're nuts! Great to meet you as well.

Not much to say about the game, other than they whooped us. Can't even blame the refs (even though they sucked!).

Assuming Ray is out for awhile, Fajardo has had over a year to prepare for this possibility, so now it's up to him to run with it. But I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that Prukop will be our starting QB in 2018 or 19.

[paulwoods13]

We play a sixth o-lineman (J Campbell) on about half of all downs, and a FB/TE (Cross) on about another quarter, and we still can't protect the QB or open any lanes for a running game. Until we fix the blocking problem, we'll be scuffling. Going with two INTs might help but we don't currently have the depth of NAT talent to do it, IMO.

Gabriel looks to be out for a while with some type of shoulder injury -- I wonder if we will recall Matt Black. And of course Waud is probably gone, again.

It also doesn't help that we are currently missing two of our top four receivers in Posey and Edwards. Too many times, Ricky had no one open to throw to.

We are not nearly as good as Calgary at the moment. We're fortunate to play in a very weak division but still, we would be in a much more comfortable position if we had been able to win in Sask last week. Ott isn't going to lose close games forever, and Mtl looks decent (and is coming off a bye when we play them next weekend).

[ArgoGabe22]

I also want to say it was a pleasure meeting Ravi at the game last night. As luck would have it he bought a ticket right across the aisle from my seat. 👍👍

Ravi knows where the best bang for your buck is in terms of ticket pricing.

[cfl-cis fan]

We play a sixth o-lineman (J Campbell) on about half of all downs, and a FB/TE (Cross) on about another quarter, and we still can't protect the QB or open any lanes for a running game. Until we fix the blocking problem, we'll be scuffling. Going with two INTs might help but we don't currently have the depth of NAT talent to do it, IMO.

Gabriel looks to be out for a while with some type of shoulder injury -- I wonder if we will recall Matt Black. And of course Waud is probably gone, again.

It also doesn't help that we are currently missing two of our top four receivers in Posey and Edwards. Too many times, Ricky had no one open to throw to.

We are not nearly as good as Calgary at the moment. We're fortunate to play in a very weak division but still, we would be in a much more comfortable position if we had been able to win in Sask last week. Ott isn't going to lose close games forever, and Mtl looks decent (and is coming off a bye when we play them next weekend).

Not saying the Oline play is up to snuff but Ricky can not expect to hang on to the ball that long, NO Oline can provide that. He has for the most part abandoned the outlet. Have to take what the defence gives you some times.

[Argofan_1000]

Probably didn't want a 2nd QB to get killed last night. May have been the worst I have ever seen from the O-line. Maybe time to look at Campbell, Sackey and Woods. Or change the way they use the ratio and add an import at guard.

Agree with you about the OL. How long is the league going to hold on to every aspect of the ratio rules. Stars of the League, the QB's get hurt more than they should. I would like the ratio kept but remove the on field ratio. This allows the coaches to coach and not address the ratio during the game. Also changes the draft so teams will now hunt for the best Nationals and not the best OL. Also gives the League a tool to say that the best players are playing. It won't erode the fabric of the CFL, it will only help in my view.

A positive note is that the Argos need to evaluate Cody anyway. It is his chance to see if he can be the future of the Argos.

[AngeloV]

Agree with you about the OL. How long is the league going to hold on to every aspect of the ratio rules. Stars of the League, the QB's get hurt more than they should. I would like the ratio kept but remove the on field ratio. This allows the coaches to coach and not address the ratio during the game. Also changes the draft so teams will now hunt for the best Nationals and not the best OL. Also gives the League a tool to say that the best players are playing. It won't erode the fabric of the CFL, it will only help in my view.

A positive note is that the Argos need to evaluate Cody anyway. It is his chance to see if he can be the future of the Argos.

Regarding the ratio, with the receivers the Argos have, they should look at going with a 2nd National starting on O full time. I like Fuller, but he hasn't made a difference in this offence. I would prefer to start either Williams or Noel at the receiver spot at this point. You can also move Woodson into the field side corner spot. The o-line is having troubles, both run and pass blocking. If it requires starting an import inside, then by all means, do it.

[OV Argo]

Agree with you about the OL. How long is the league going to hold on to every aspect of the ratio rules. Stars of the League, the QB's get hurt more than they should. I would like the ratio kept but remove the on field ratio. This allows the coaches to coach and not address the ratio during the game. Also changes the draft so teams will now hunt for the best Nationals and not the best OL. Also gives the League a tool to say that the best players are playing. It won't erode the fabric of the CFL, it will only help in my view.

A positive note is that the Argos need to evaluate Cody anyway. It is his chance to see if he can be the future of the Argos.



Just FYI - the Bombers started 3 imports on the O-line most of last season, and they were a middle of the pack team that lost in the first round of the play-offs; OTOH - the RedBlacks started/played more NIs than all other teams in the league, including 4 on the O-line (including a rookie draft pick at OT) AND they won the GC.

Be nice to be able to talk specifics about CFL rosters instead of hearing the typical, usual cry-babying about ratio problems and lack of respect for Canadian talent or calling for less Canadian players in the freakin' CANADIAN Football League. The Argos have had some struggles on the O-line for sure; why don't you name all the superstar import O-linemen they could easily plug-in to help there. I'd like to see top Argo draft pick - Mason Woods - massive, experienced at guard - get a chance to see if he could help; but maybe there are a few dozen American O-lineman just hanging around that they could try to help as well?

[paulwoods13]

Regarding the ratio, with the receivers the Argos have, they should look at going with a 2nd National starting on O full time. I like Fuller, but he hasn't made a difference in this offence. I would prefer to start either Williams or Noel at the receiver spot at this point. You can also move Woodson into the field side corner spot. The o-line is having troubles, both run and pass blocking. If it requires starting an import inside, then by all means, do it.

Gabriel's injury, if it's serious, would likely kaibosh that. We are already playing Williams at WR, which means we currently have eight NAT starters (4 o-line, 2 rec, 1 DT, 1 DB). So in theory we could start a second INT on the o-line, but the only way that works is if we don't lose a NAT starter on defence. If we have a healthy Gabriel, Waud and Laing, it could happen. I'd also like to see Posey and Edwards in place of Fuller and Paden (altho the latter made a couple of nice catches this week).

[doubleblue]

Regarding the ratio, with the receivers the Argos have, they should look at going with a 2nd National starting on O full time. I like Fuller, but he hasn't made a difference in this offence. I would prefer to start either Williams or Noel at the receiver spot at this point. You can also move Woodson into the field side corner spot. The o-line is having troubles, both run and pass blocking. If it requires starting an import inside, then by all means, do it.

Winnipeg finally got tired of their porous offensive line and have gone to three imports to get the right combination to protect Nichols. They brought in that huge Left Guard Bond and suddenly the whole line plays better.

I agree about the Canadian receivers except for Green and Posey there would be no big drop off IMO to start a combination of Coombs, Williams, Noel, Ralph or Jones at the other three spots.
I like Will Campbell's play at LT. Holmes and McEwen should be building blocks at LG and OC but they can't seem to open up any holes for the RB's right now. Van Zeyl hasn't been bad IMO at RT but could maybe be more useful now at RG. So another good right tackle would solidify things. One weak spot and sometimes everything breaks down. Jamal Campbell is going to play and I predict play well eventually, but maybe just not a full time starter quite yet.
But the Coaches are the experts but it is frustrating watching them trying to put square pegs in round holes and expect it to work.

[paulwoods13]

Not saying the Oline play is up to snuff but Ricky can not expect to hang on to the ball that long, NO Oline can provide that. He has for the most part abandoned the outlet. Have to take what the defence gives you some times.

Ricky probably hung on to the ball too long on the injury play and a few others, but the notion he has abandoned outlet passes seems rather far-fetched. Thankfully he throws downfield a lot more than last year, but on Thursday the vast majority of his completions were very short, as evidenced by his stats.

[ArgoRavi]

Ott isn't going to lose close games forever, and Mtl looks decent (and is coming off a bye when we play them next weekend).

The RedBlacks are 9-14-2 since the start of the 2016 season and most of those losses have been close games. They have really struggled in closing out games for a while now and the question has to be asked whether Trevor Harris is a clutch performer. I guess I am saying that I could see them continuing to lose close games for quite a while yet although that is hardly anything that the Argos should be counting upon.

[argotom]

The way the weak East is this year and so far even worse than last year, going with a backup for the next several weeks may not be as devastating as if this team was in the West.
The league has to go one division.
I know the West would welcome it and likely have pushed for it.

[Argo]

The RedBlacks are 9-14-2 since the start of the 2016 season and most of those losses have been close games. They have really struggled in closing out games for a while now and the question has to be asked whether Trevor Harris is a clutch performer. I guess I am saying that I could see them continuing to lose close games for quite a while yet although that is hardly anything that the Argos should be counting upon.

I myself don't have the time or inclination to do so, but it'd be interesting to review the 14 losses and 2 ties to see the culpability of (1) the offence, and (2) Trevor Harris.
Although I may be wrong, I have the sense that (1) and (2) have not been the problem.
Harris is a sufficiently mobile QB very able to pass the football, particularly for touchdowns. He's also tactically tough and strategically durable.

[ArgoRavi]

I myself don't have the time or inclination to do so, but it'd be interesting to review the 14 losses and 2 ties to see the culpability of (1) the offence, and (2) Trevor Harris.
Although I may be wrong, I have the sense that (1) and (2) have not been the problem.
Harris is a sufficiently mobile QB very able to pass the football, particularly for touchdowns. He's also tactically tough and strategically durable.

How does he do in clutch situations though? Is he able to move the ball when absolutely necessary? Is he able to make the key play needed to win the game? He sure wasn't able to do so last night.

[AngeloV]

How does he do in clutch situations though? Is he able to move the ball when absolutely necessary? Is he able to make the key play needed to win the game? He sure wasn't able to do so last night.

In both games against the Argos he did. First game Spicoli...er Tate, dropped the snap on the convert. 2nd game, after throwing the td pass to tie it, he never got the ball back. I have changed my opinion on Harris this year, and admit, I was wrong. He's a very good QB, probably behind Reilly and Mitchell in the top tier in the league.