GAME THREAD / Lucky Week 13 / Edmonton @ Toronto

[Wobbler]

Edmonton has lost four straight, but played really well against Calgary in their most recent setback. Reilly threw for close to 500 yards against the best secondary in the league, thanks in part to the return of Derel Walker.

We will get some helpful additions to the roster too, but... we also have a losing streak. Ours is being crushed by Calgary plus an embarrassing loss to the then 0-8 Ti-Cats.

Personal prediction: Edmonton 27, Toronto 8.

[doubleblue]

Edmonton has lost four straight, but played really well against Calgary in their most recent setback. Reilly threw for close to 500 yards against the best secondary in the league, thanks in part to the return of Derel Walker.

We will get some helpful additions to the roster too, but... we also have a losing streak. Ours is being crushed by Calgary plus an embarrassing loss to the then 0-8 Ti-Cats.

Personal prediction: Edmonton 27, Toronto 8.

Yes Edmonton will be pumped to stop the losing skid. That loss to Hamilton is going to come back to bite the Argos I'm afraid at the end of the year. That is the first time I have seen Trestman on edge this year after a loss as he knew it as well.

[Antwon]

We really need this win. The east is there for the taking.
Unfortunately Edm has a ferocious d-line. So if Trestman has spent the bye week coming up with new wrinkles and a run game to protect Ray, then we have a chance.
I expect the same 90% pass plays and Ray to be hammered all game.
(And with three QB's down last week, I'm afraid this could be Ray's week.)


Side note: the Cats won last week with a balanced pass and run game. And I smell a home win for them against Sask without Glenn.

[gilthethrill]

An interesting fact....John Chick has not been on the winning side yet this season. I hope it continues that way Saturday afternoon.

[AngeloV]

An interesting fact....John Chick has not been on the winning side yet this season. I hope it continues that way Saturday afternoon.

I was hoping to wait until after the game to bring this up. Nobody suffers through worse Karma than me.

:)

[gilthethrill]

I was hoping to wait until after the game to bring this up. Nobody suffers through worse Karma than me.

:)

It's OK, AV...the Argos are undefeated this season in home games that I attend. John Chick can't control that.

[ArgoRavi]

Teams tend to fare well coming off their bye week so hopefully that will work out in the Argos' favour this week.

[jerrym]

Edmonton has lost four straight, but played really well against Calgary in their most recent setback. Reilly threw for close to 500 yards against the best secondary in the league, thanks in part to the return of Derel Walker.

We will get some helpful additions to the roster too, but... we also have a losing streak. Ours is being crushed by Calgary plus an embarrassing loss to the then 0-8 Ti-Cats.

Personal prediction: Edmonton 27, Toronto 8.

Everything favours the Eskimos but I don't think the margin will not be as wide as you predict.

[R.J]

I don't see a win here, but stranger things have happened.

[Argo]

Edmonton to win.

[mchesher03]

C’mon guys this is the CFL, anything can happen! #noleadissafe!

Their D-Line vs. our O-Line is less than ideal, however let’s see – we did witness the improbable lefeveor led win over the Ticats around this time a year ago.

Read that Butler may be back for this one??? That’d be amazing – any other injury updates or is it wait for the depth chart tomorrow?

[AngeloV]

C’mon guys this is the CFL, anything can happen! #noleadissafe!

Their D-Line vs. our O-Line is less than ideal, however let’s see – we did witness the improbable lefeveor led win over the Ticats around this time a year ago.

Read that Butler may be back for this one??? That’d be amazing – any other injury updates or is it wait for the depth chart tomorrow?


Butler, Laing and Sears all looking like they will be starting this week from my observations.

[mchesher03]

Great, looking forward to that d line push from laing and butler!

This isn’t a knock on the backups (wynne, davis, etc.) have played well, but those two were on fire at the start of the year.

Butler still tied for the sack lead in the CFL!

[Wobbler]

It'll be interesting to see how Butler looks without Lemon to draw some attention.

[gilthethrill]

It'll be interesting to see how Butler looks without Lemon to draw some attention.

I noticed Akeem Jordan is not on the PR (unlike Mitchell White)....would they dare rush him onto the active roster to offset the loss of Lemon?

[Shatto]

You are correct, Jordan is listed on the active roster. For a 32 year old player who hasn't played a down as a defensive player since 2013, he must have really impressed the coaching staff in the couple of days he has been here. Who knows, he may be the second coming of James "quick" Parker. It does seem strange, though.

[AngeloV]

You are correct, Jordan is listed on the active roster. For a 32 year old player who hasn't played a down as a defensive player since 2013, he must have really impressed the coaching staff in the couple of days he has been here. Who knows, he may be the second coming of James "quick" Parker. It does seem strange, though.

I would bet he will be strictly special teams. Argos have not been too happy with the teams.

[Argofan_1000]

ticketmaster showing quite a few tickets gone. hope so. mid 20's and sunny

I think game goes to the wire and the Argos can win this. I think they are much better than their record shows.

[AngeloV]

ticketmaster showing quite a few tickets gone. hope so. mid 20's and sunny

I think game goes to the wire and the Argos can win this. I think they are much better than their record shows.

I agree. Reilly has taken a pounding this year but especially the last 4 games. Let's hope that continues.

[Skinny G]

Anyone interested in extra tickets for the game? Not looking like we'll be able to make it, so have our 2 seats available. Seats are in Section 220 in upper section. Please send me a PM if interested. Thanks!

[Argo]

ticketmaster showing quite a few tickets gone. hope so. mid 20's and sunny

I think game goes to the wire and the Argos can win this. I think they are much better than their record shows.

I think Edmonton, with its top-notch QB and receiver corps, scores more points against a good Argonauts D than Ray's unit manages to score. Edmonton FTW.

[Wobbler]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Download this week's game notes and depth chart for our game against the <a href="https://twitter.com/EdmontonEsks">@EdmontonEsks</a>.<br><br> » <a href="https://t.co/x9jnoVwAYE">https://t.co/x9jnoVwAYE</a><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ArgosFootball?src=hash">#ArgosFootball</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFL?src=hash">#CFL</a> <a href="https://t.co/R4s4FvPfzN">pic.twitter.com/R4s4FvPfzN</a></p>&mdash; Toronto Argonauts (@TorontoArgos) <a href="https://twitter.com/TorontoArgos/status/908716052506447873">September 15, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

- Almost the same secondary as last week (Sears is back), which is disappointing
- Butler and Laing are back, as expected
- Worthy is back and has taken Fuller's spot at field WR
- Wilder is the RB - Whitaker is on the 1 game IR
- Lemon, Watman, and Woodson were all put on the 6 game IR

[Will]

We must win. We will win.

[doubleblue]

<twitterwidget class="twitter-tweet twitter-tweet-rendered" id="twitter-widget-0" style="position: static; visibility: visible; display: block; transform: rotate(0deg); max-width: 100%; width: 500px; min-width: 220px; margin-top: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px;" data-tweet-id="908716052506447873"></twitterwidget>
<script async="" src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

- Almost the same secondary as last week (Sears is back), which is disappointing
- Butler and Laing are back, as expected
- Worthy is back and has taken Fuller's spot at field WR
- Wilder is the RB - Whitaker is on the 1 game IR
- Lemon, Watman, and Woodson were all put on the 6 game IR

At first I said why Worthy instead of one fo the other WR's in camp. But then I see Whitaker is out so Jackson may be seeing more time at RB and they need Worthy to take some kick returns. Deane is going to carry the load at RG? Hope he's up to it on a warm day. Good job Butler is back with Lemon going down.

[gilthethrill]

Would have liked to have seen White at CB. Thought he would have been ready after a week of practise.

[paulwoods13]

White is already on the one-game IR so either not ready or actually hurt. Woodson is on the 6-game so must be seriously hurt as it would make little sense to put him there for cap reasons. I see no sign of the NAT DB we added to the PR this week.

[Argo]

We must win. We will win.

Und Morgen, wir müssen wissen, wir werden wissen. LOL.

[jerrym]

Good to see the Argos getting healthy, especially with the return of Butler and Laing, as well as Sears (if he can avoid stupid penalties).

[Wobbler]

Sears bears watching. His strange behavior in week six was never explained.

[Stevoman]

Any update on Gabriel?

[ArgoGabe22]

Any update on Gabriel?

I'll be sitting in the stands today!

[Wobbler]

Thanks for the update!

[jerrym]

Former Argo Euclid Cummings strips Ray of the ball on second play from scrimmage. Not a good sign.

[jerrym]

Travon Van makes the Argo defence look like Swiss cheese in running for a TD immediately after the Ray fumble. This could get ugly fast if the Argos don't get their heads into the game now.

[jerrym]

Declan Cross has his TD called back but then catches another pass. He just keeps getting better and better.

[jerrym]

Nice surprise play with Fajardo hitting SJ for TD from the one!

[jerrym]

Wilder goes through a big hole to score on a long run for a 21-14 lead!

[Argo]

Looking at the boxscore, it looks like J. Wilder is on fire.

[PullTogether73]

An Argo running play up the gut for mega yards AND a touchdown?
How did that play get into our playbook?

I may have to find the medical office here at BMO Field to check that I'm not delirious/delusional!

[jerrym]

Matese Jackson 125 yard end zone to end zone TD! The definition of speed.

[PullTogether73]

ANOTHER run up the gut for an Argo big gain?
Which team is this?
It isn't the Argos.

[Neely2005]

It's a coming out party for James Wilder Jr.!

[Neely2005]

Imagine if Ray got as much time as Reilly does!?!

[jerrym]

Imagine if Ray got as much time as Reilly does!?!

If Wilder in future games can continue to break tackles the way he has done in this game, other teams will be forced to pay more attention to him, thereby giving Ray more time.

[jerrym]

Konar interception after Eskimo TD changes the whole complexion of the game.

[jerrym]

Costly penalty on Argo interception costs the Argos another TD. However, offensive pass interference costs Eskimos a TD and helps the Argos escape with only a FG.

[jerrym]

Great blitz to sack Reilly leading to an Argo win.

[jerrym]

Argos in first (at least until tomorrow when Ottawa plays Montreal).

[Wobbler]

Well, that was a pleasant surprise!

The biggest shock, obviously, was Wilder Jr. He has gone from a guy who looked tentative when carrying the ball and was surprisingly easy to tackle to an entirely different guy with excellent balance, who makes quick decisions, and even looks very alert (e.g. the fumble recovery). Oh, and led the team in receiving yards too. Amazing!

We took too many penalties, as usual, but it was a strong effort in all three phases.

[Argo]

Surprising, though yes indeed, a very nice 3-phase win. Wilder superb with 190 rushing, 67 receiving, and a vital fumble recovery Q4 03:44.

But no call on the hit to Mike Reilly's head... brutal.

[Stevoman]

Wilder Jr. must've been rejuvenated after the bye week as that was an excellent performance! I think the penalty challenges were called correctly at the end of the game but agree that there was a missed call on the Reilly hit. Black was definitely not being malicious on the play but it looked like Reilly turned his way at the last second and Black's helmet hit his facemask. Normally I think Maas is just whining but do think he had reason to be upset after that one.

[Argo57]

I'll gladly eat some crow here, Wilder looked outstanding tonight as did Martese Jackson.
Credit to the O-Line for opening some nice holes for Wilder to hit!!
Successful weekend in my books, Argos win and Ticats lose, life is good........for now.

[Argofan_1000]

is that the most yards from a running back this year? talking all teams

[paulwoods13]

Sure am glad Wilder hasn't been benched.

[Argo57]

Wilder Jr. must've been rejuvenated after the bye week as that was an excellent performance! I think the penalty challenges were called correctly at the end of the game but agree that there was a missed call on the Reilly hit. Black was definitely not being malicious on the play but it looked like Reilly turned his way at the last second and Black's helmet hit his facemask. Normally I think Maas is just whining but do think he had reason to be upset after that one.

I actually thought Reilly should have been flagged for roughing the rusher on the helmet to helmet collision.
All kidding aside I've seen lesser hits flagged but won't apologize for the Argos catching a break, think back to the Labour Day fiasco.

[ArgoGabe22]

Good team win overall but something about Ray bothered me. He threw a lot more dumb passes than usual.

I didn't notice the helmet to helmet on Black's big hit (still need to see a reply) but I don't feel bad at all. Ray got clobbered in Winnipeg with no call.

[jerrym]

The attendance of 13,182 was close to the season average.

[argofan81]

Good team win overall but something about Ray bothered me. He threw a lot more dumb passes than usual.

I didn't notice the helmet to helmet on Black's big hit (still need to see a reply) but I don't feel bad at all. Ray got clobbered in Winnipeg with no call.

I've watched the replays. Honestly, tried to remove my bias as an Argo fan. At game speeds, I'd say helmet-to-chest. Slow it down and it becomes a game of inches (more accurately, millimetres). I can see why it wasn't called at game speed and unless every play is reviewed at the command centre, plays like that are going to be hit and miss. Technically, should it have been flagged, yes! Practically and at game speeds, no!!

[ArgoGabe22]

I've watched the replays. Honestly, tried to remove my bias as an Argo fan. At game speeds, I'd say helmet-to-chest. Slow it down and it becomes a game of inches (more accurately, millimetres). I can see why it wasn't called at game speed and unless every play is reviewed at the command centre, plays like that are going to be hit and miss. Technically, should it have been flagged, yes! Practically and at game speeds, no!!

Twitter (which should probably be avoided) is screaming for a penalty. Perhaps I have too much of an Argos bias but I really see nothing wrong with the hit whatsoever. Yes, a flag could've been thrown technically but that hit looks clean (st chest) in real time. Black is not head hunting. Football is a collision sport, helmets will always somewhat come into contact. Now, what the BC player did was a blatant helmet to helmet hit that should've been called. Black came in clean and at full speed. I'm not really sure what he could've done? Gone for the knees and get called a dirty player?

[Argocister]

My 2 cents worth ....
Love it that Butler, Sears and Laing are back. Makes it a bit easier to miss Lemon. It's also good to have the variety/rotation on the d line
Specials played well tonight. I'm not sure if we just match well against the Eskimos or we've just honed our skills that much , but I was never nervous or hoping the job would be done with the special teams out there.
Thank you Oline ..... having Himebach back may have made the difference along with the break, but the paths that opened for Wilder were amazing. Ihaven't looked at the stats but I don't think Ray looked so harrassed as well.
And thank you D for clinching the game for us in the end. i was going to start to list some .... Bear, Ball, Black .... but then figured it would just be the whole defense tonight.

Even though we had our average 13,some odd thousand ..... the crowd had some good energy.
I know one more pair of seasons that will be sold next year. My friends have been a couple of times now and had a great time. hopefully more will follow .

Looking forward to next Saturdays game against the Als .... ARGOOOOOOOOOOOS!

[ArgoZ]

I've watched the replays. Honestly, tried to remove my bias as an Argo fan. At game speeds, I'd say helmet-to-chest. Slow it down and it becomes a game of inches (more accurately, millimetres). I can see why it wasn't called at game speed and unless every play is reviewed at the command centre, plays like that are going to be hit and miss. Technically, should it have been flagged, yes! Practically and at game speeds, no!!

The Esks offensive pass interference was the same, where it looks perfectly fine until you break down the replay, frame by frame. It's too unreasonable to expect the referees to see all of this in real time, otherwise we might as well watch every play on replay and then make the calls. I'd would rather live in the moment and with the call, then wait for a replay decision.

[ArgoFan1]

I was one that had been saying that Wilder should have been cut long ago. He never was able to run more than two yards, it seemed. Today, he was fantastic and at times, looked like the second coming of Kackert, especially with that long touchdown. There are quite a few players to like on this team. Just too bad they can be so frustrating at times, like in Hamilton. Again... Ray never did throw any long passes. Haven't looked at the stats yet, but probably 20 yards may have been his longest actual throw, just like the last game. Great to see Jackson finally run one the length of the field and not have it nullified by a penalty. This was one of the most entertaining games I've seen at home in quite a while. Right down to the wire, and the final nail coming with that great sack of Reilly. So many people in Toronto don't know what they missed by not going to the game. Oh... and I have to tip the hat to Trestman for putting Fajardo in at the end of the game, who used his feet to get us two crucial first downs. Can't wait for next week !!

[Rich]

I have to tip the hat to Trestman for putting Fajardo in at the end of the game, who used his feet to get us two crucial first downs.


It looks like we've finally got a Fajardo package on offence, and that will definitely give defences something else to worry about. On his TD pass, it looked at first like a mistake that he was even in the game. The ball was originally placed on the 1 yard line so the Fajardo squad came in, but when the ball was moved back to the 3 they surprisingly stayed in. I'm assuming now that the pass play was part of the Fajardo package.

[Rich]

Sure am glad Wilder hasn't been benched.

But here's the big question: If Whitaker is healthy and ready to go this week, who starts at tailback against the Als? I sure hope Wilder gets another go while he's hot. On the other hand, the O-Line was ripping open such big holes against Edmonton, Betty White could have rushed for 100 yards in that game.

[1971GreyCup]

Anyone else notice a WWII Lancaster bomber flyover 10 minutes prior to last night's game? I had an message from the U.K. about it, but no public announcement? It was announced at Woodbine. Would it just be coincidentally banking over BMO Field?

879

[PullTogether73]

Anyone else notice a WWII Lancaster bomber flyover 10 minutes prior to last night's game? I had an message from the U.K. about it, but no public announcement? It was announced at Woodbine. Would it just be coincidentally banking over BMO Field?

879

It was announced in one of the e-mails from the Argos ahead of the game as part of "Military Appreciation Night".

[1971GreyCup]

I guess I missed that one. The demographic that most appreciates WWII isn't necessarily internet savvy. I am glad they announced the military presence and not left it to the emails. Sarcasm

[ArgoGabe22]

But here's the big question: If Whitaker is healthy and ready to go this week, who starts at tailback against the Als? I sure hope Wilder gets another go while he's hot. On the other hand, the O-Line was ripping open such big holes against Edmonton, Betty White could have rushed for 100 yards in that game.

I assume Wilder will start since Whittaker was practically benched yesterday.

[Will]

After yesterday's performance you have to go with Wilder. On the Argos fancast, Clay, Anthony and I usually breakdown the good, bad and the ugly from yesterday's game so I figured I'd get a head start.

Good

- The aforementioned James Wilder Jr, who had the breakout game that many of us on the forum were waiting for. His 190 yard were the most by an Argo running back since Gil Fenerty had over 200 yards rushing against the Stampeders back in 1988. He also picked up some key first downs on that first touchdown drive.

- Martese Jackson was a force on returns. He gave the Argos instant field position on several of his returns and, of course, returned O'Neil's missed FG for a touchdown.

- The offensive line played well after a rough first series. You know you've done well when your team rushes for more than 200 yards in the game.

Bad

- The offence only produced 3 points in the 2nd half and that was primarily as a result of two long runs by Wilder. Ricky Ray struggled in the 2nd half going 6/12 for 39 yards. Edmonton held the ball for a 11 minutes in the 3rd quarter, but it wasn't Ray's best performance out there. But, it's nice to see that in spite of this that other players were able to step up and that special teams and defence was able to propel the Argos to the win.

- S.J Green only had 2 catches for 7 yards and a touchdown. He had a few drops out there I think as well. But, this might be good news for next Saturday as he usually performs well after struggling.

- A couple of breakdowns in the secondary, though the back end was actually solid for the most part considering the weapons that Edmonton has in their receiving corps.

Ugly

- The attendance was only 13,182. I realize that "it is what it is" for now, but it was a beautiful day, the Jays were on the road and we are now into post-Labour Day.

- The Argos raising our general anxiety in the 4th quarter.

[doubleblue]

Great win for the Argos. 13,000 people can make a lot of noise in BMO. Must be the roof that throws the sound out to the field. The Argos played Western Conference football against a very good team.
Happy to see Wilder get used to his strengths. Even thought he might not be the ideal RB inside he did what I always thought he could do. Take a swing or screen pass and make ten yards or more just or his quickness and power. Huge for keeping drives going.
How many times did OV and I ask the previous regime to bring in a BIG back to go with Whitaker or whatever pony back they had at that the time. Calgary always shows the other teams how it's done if they're smart enough to follow suit.
The O Line played well against a very good defensive line, still think they could be better with Van Zeyl in at RG if Popp could find the right Import to really solidify that line. But Deane played pretty good after that early attempt of a block that got Ricky sacked right off the bat. Van Zeyl tried that same cut block dive at the DE feet once later without much success. Maybe it was a Coach instructed thing to mix it up against a guy like Willis.
I don't think Trestman needs both Worthy and McDaniel in the lineup at the same time. I expect it is for special teams but IMO one of the Canadian kids could do what Worthy did/does. I would rather see an extra import DB dressed or another Import O Lineman. But they're the experts.
We get AK and White in at the corners and Lemon back before the playoff this defense will be tough to beat. I don't think a Toronto - Calgary or Edmonton Grey Cup in out of reason. But we can't afford to lose Ricky Ray. Which reminds me someone earlier mentioned that Rick appeared to tire in the 4th quarter, I thought so too. Good call by Trestman putting Fajardo in to run the ball against a tiring Edmonton Defense to maintain possession.

[Argofan_1000]

Great win for the Argos. 13,000 people can make a lot of noise in BMO. Must be the roof that throws the sound out to the field. The Argos played Western Conference football against a very good team.
Happy to see Wilder get used to his strengths. Even thought he might not be the ideal RB inside he did what I always thought he could do. Take a swing or screen pass and make ten yards or more just or his quickness and power. Huge for keeping drives going.
How many times did OV and I ask the previous regime to bring in a BIG back to go with Whitaker or whatever pony back they had at that the time. Calgary always shows the other teams how it's done if they're smart enough to follow suit.
The O Line played well against a very good defensive line, still think they could be better with Van Zeyl in at RG if Popp could find the right Import to really solidify that line. But Deane played pretty good after that early attempt of a block that got Ricky sacked right off the bat. Van Zeyl tried that same cut block dive at the DE feet once later without much success. Maybe it was a Coach instructed thing to mix it up against a guy like Willis.
I don't think Trestman needs both Worthy and McDaniel in the lineup at the same time. I expect it is for special teams but IMO one of the Canadian kids could do what Worthy did/does. I would rather see an extra import DB dressed or another Import O Lineman. But they're the experts.
We get AK and White in at the corners and Lemon back before the playoff this defense will be tough to beat. I don't think a Toronto - Calgary or Edmonton Grey Cup in out of reason. But we can't afford to lose Ricky Ray. Which reminds me someone earlier mentioned that Rick appeared to tire in the 4th quarter, I thought so too. Good call by Trestman putting Fajardo in to run the ball against a tiring Edmonton Defense to maintain possession.

I saw enough young people at the game to be reasonably hopeful on attendance. Like the atmosphere there. Team needs to win for more to have a look. You can see how soft the Jays support is. 1.0+M tv last year now in line with the CFL. CFL has a few advantages, 1st the game itself is more exciting, 2nd they have an endless supply of NCAA and Usport players and right now they have the best athletes in the city no matter what sport. Jays, Raptors, TFC fans all saying they have better support. For a decade I remember they had 15-20 out to the games with many a free ticket. Raptors couldn't get anyone out so the leafs forced the purchase of Raptors season seats, and TFC had worse attendance than the Argos.

[AngeloV]

But here's the big question: If Whitaker is healthy and ready to go this week, who starts at tailback against the Als? I sure hope Wilder gets another go while he's hot. On the other hand, the O-Line was ripping open such big holes against Edmonton, Betty White could have rushed for 100 yards in that game.

Oh Whitaker is healthy. I was at all 3 practices this week, and he participated in every drill hard, but go zero reps with the Argos offence. Ran strictly scout team. Truth be told, I was surprised to see Wilder start. I would say that Jackson got more reps over the 3 days than he did, but admittedly, Wilder got more on Thursday, which was the last practice of the week.

[Wobbler]

I didn't notice until now, but we actually had more rushing yards (231) than passing yards (226) yesterday. I bet it's been a while since that happened.

[PullTogether73]

I assume Wilder will start since Whittaker was practically benched yesterday.

Well, he wasn't even dressed.
Hoagie mentioned on the pre-game show that Trestman wanted to see what he had with Wilder, and rotating between Wilder and BWhit wasn't giving them that opportunity.
BWhit was on the 1-game IR for yesterday's game even though he wasn't injured.
It was referred to as a "coach's decision" to sit him.

[ArgoGabe22]

Well, he wasn't even dressed.
Hoagie mentioned on the pre-game show that Trestman wanted to see what he had with Wilder, and rotating between Wilder and BWhit wasn't giving them that opportunity.
BWhit was on the 1-game IR for yesterday's game even though he wasn't injured.
It was referred to as a "coach's decision" to sit him.

It's still a benching IMO

[Neely2005]

Does anyone know if/when TSN is replaying this game? I forgot to set the PVR before we went to the game.

[gilthethrill]

Does anyone know if/when TSN is replaying this game? I forgot to set the PVR before we went to the game.

Try You Tube. It should be posted.

[Argo]

Does anyone know if/when TSN is replaying this game? I forgot to set the PVR before we went to the game.

It seems that every CFL game is available on YouTube (with no commercials) not too long after game day. This is how I watch the CFL (no TV).

[jerrym]

I was one that had been saying that Wilder should have been cut long ago. He never was able to run more than two yards, it seemed. Today, he was fantastic and at times, looked like the second coming of Kackert, especially with that long touchdown.

I also had strong doubts about Wilder. He seemed to be slow getting moving in the backfield and was getting tackled before getting any momentum up. Maybe it was a false memory but he looked thinner than before during his half-time interview which could affect his speed. Whatever the reason for his improved performance, he has shown that with decent blocking he can be a dominant RB. However, I would say he looked more like the second coming of Drummond than Kackert. I hope the Argos don't abandon the run game even if it is sometimes shut down in the future. It definitely takes some of the pressure off Ray.

[jerrym]

I don't think Trestman needs both Worthy and McDaniel in the lineup at the same time. I expect it is for special teams but IMO one of the Canadian kids could do what Worthy did/does. I would rather see an extra import DB dressed or another Import O Lineman. But they're the experts.


I agree that I would prefer a Canadian over Worthy and substitute in an International DB in his place. Worthy is a luxury we don't need when we also have Martese.

[Neely2005]

Try You Tube. It should be posted.


It seems that every CFL game is available on YouTube (with no commercials) not too long after game day. This is how I watch the CFL (no TV).

Thanks guys!

[paulwoods13]

I agree that I would prefer a Canadian over Worthy and substitute in an International DB in his place. Worthy is a luxury we don't need when we also have Martese.

That's almost exactly what half this board was saying about Wilder three weeks ago. Worthy (a) replaced Fuller, which should have made everyone happy, (b) played quite well for a guy who hadn't dressed in 8 or 9 games, and (c) allows us to integrate Jackson more into the offence since he can also return kicks.

I've been worried about our depth at DB since week 1, but we are already dressing an extra INT DB and I don't see why we would need a second.

[Stevoman]

Does anyone know if/when TSN is replaying this game? I forgot to set the PVR before we went to the game.

It's on tsn.ca in the archived games section. It will be up for 1 week.

[OV Argo]

Great to see Wilder break-out with a big game; a RB needs the ball lots for a chance to produce lots - loved that big gainer TD run - so rare in the CFL these days and basically forgotten as a potential big factor on offence - shades of Leon McQuay or Bill Symons or Gill Fenerty (not that Wilder is even close to that level of RB talent though). Hopefully the Argos stick with plenty of ground game. Have to give the O-line some credit for opening up some good holes - against those Esks DTs like Sewell & Cummings - who were total non factors in stuffing the run game; plus the Esks were playing lightweight Hoffman-Ellis at MLB (when they could have had big MLB Mulumba there instead - he might have helped them), and back from injury safety Neil King was nowhere to be found to stop the run up the middle either = Esks got exposed there and good on the Argo offensive thinkers for going there. Tyler Holmes still continuing to struggle or be matador like often in pass pro though - why not give Mason Woods a shot there ?

[Wobbler]

Can't really fault Edmonton for not anticipating our run-heavy game plan. Montreal will be better prepared.

Given how long we've stuck with our current OL - including no changes in the bye week - I think this is it unless someone gets hurt. Himebauch might have some new ideas, but the rest of the staff seems to have prioritized chemistry over tinkering.

[OV Argo]

Can't really fault Edmonton for not anticipating our run-heavy game plan. Montreal will be better prepared.

Given how long we've stuck with our current OL - including no changes in the bye week - I think this is it unless someone gets hurt. Himebauch might have some new ideas, but the rest of the staff seems to have prioritized chemistry over tinkering.


The Esks have 2 supposed stud DTs in Sewell & Cummings - and they did zip against Wilder running wild up the middle - and neither did their MLB or safety who should be counted on to help there.

The Als are going with mostly a couple of NI DTs in Don O & Westerman and they have done little this year IMO; and Hebert has taken over at MLB lately for the rookie import MLBs who started earlier and were mediocre at best - Hebert is a tough hitter with a nose for the ball but not a real MLB; and the Als rookie safety Wright hasn\'t done much either, but run support might be more of a strength for him.

Wilder should be able to do just fine against that Als D - feed him the ball lots. Thing about a real good, applied run game - Ds can be looking for it, but if your O-line is firing off well and you have a tough or explosive back - it's tough to stop - unless you have stud type run stopping defenders at key positions - most CFL teams just do not.

[Shatto]

I have to admit that I didn't think Wilder was an every down CFL RB, as he seemed to lack an explosive burst. Wrong! He demonstrated in this game he had both speed and power. His performance showed, he has the potential to be a Messam style impact player in the CFL and to be an real asset for the Argos as they fight for first place in the East. This is great example of how the coaching staff has a far better insight re. the players and the game than we, the average fans (well--at least this fan)
Great game, exciting plays, last minute suspense--pity more fans weren't in the stands to see the game. It was good to see the often disparaged OL, receive praise from the coaching staff and Wilder himself.

[paulwoods13]

But here's the big question: If Whitaker is healthy and ready to go this week, who starts at tailback against the Als? I sure hope Wilder gets another go while he's hot. On the other hand, the O-Line was ripping open such big holes against Edmonton, Betty White could have rushed for 100 yards in that game.

I think it's safe to assume Wilder will start again. Imo the more intriguing question is whether Whitaker will dress ahead of McDaniel. BW is definitely a better RB and would give us the ability to keep JW fresh, but with Wilder starting at TB I assume he's off special teams, and McDaniel has likely taken his spot there. It's largely invisible to us fans, but those spots on kick coverage are very important and it might handicap us to not have McDaniel in there.

It was good to see BW all smiles on the sideline after Wilder scored his TD. Whitaker is a great team player as well as a leader.

[gilthethrill]

I think it's safe to assume Wilder will start again. Imo the more intriguing question is whether Whitaker will dress ahead of McDaniel. BW is definitely a better RB and would give us the ability to keep JW fresh, but with Wilder starting at TB I assume he's off special teams, and McDaniel has likely taken his spot there. It's largely invisible to us fans, but those spots on kick coverage are very important and it might handicap us to not have McDaniel in there.

It was good to see BW all smiles on the sideline after Wilder scored his TD. Whitaker is a great team player as well as a leader.

Everyone loves Brandon Whittaker.

[Neely2005]

It's on tsn.ca in the archived games section. It will be up for 1 week.

Found it, thanks!

http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/video/cfl-eskimos-vs-argonauts~1204637

[AngeloV]

Imo the more intriguing question is whether Whitaker will dress ahead of McDaniel. BW is definitely a better RB and would give us the ability to keep JW fresh, but with Wilder starting at TB I assume he's off special teams, and McDaniel has likely taken his spot there. It's largely invisible to us fans, but those spots on kick coverage are very important and it might handicap us to not have McDaniel in there.



Paul, I don't see BW getting into the line up next game either. At practice last week (and I was there all 3 days), he was healthy, but not getting ANY reps. Wilder and Jackson got ALL of the reps. BW doesn't play ST's so I don't see him replacing McDaniel either. I think the only thing that will get BW back in the line-up is injury or multi game ineffectiveness from the position. I love the guy, but I think the team made their decision to go in a different direction. One with significant more speed.

[Rich]

Thing about a real good, applied run game - Ds can be looking for it, but if your O-line is firing off well and you have a tough or explosive back - it's tough to stop -

Especially in Canadian football with the one-yard off the ball, which provides an extra advantage for the running game.

I'm just wondering if this current Argonauts O-Line might actually be better suited for run blocking than for pass protection. More explosive first step maybe?

[Rich]

I think the team made their decision to go in a different direction. One with significant more speed.

And more power too.

[Jon Gonzo]

A lot more football to be played, but it's nice to see a younger back step up for us. It seems like a long time since we've had a dominant running game like that (Boyd, Kackert).

Brandon Whitaker is 32 and wasn't a priority re-signing in the off season. I actually think the team had designs of a Kendall Hunter/ James Wilder backfield going in.
At 32 the digression is not only predictable, but nearly certain. He's a fantastic player and team-mate and I doubt he's sung his last song yet, but it's essential for this team to progress with an eye on the long term plan.

O.Lineman generally won't look very good (nor will an offense) if all you do is pass protect. Especially with an immobile QB who is in his mid 30's and hasn't been able to stretch the D. That's a recipe for the infirmary. This new dimension will help and if they can keep the ball rolling could jell this team into a contender.

We may see Colaros and Ray in tandem towards the end of the season.

Most important, as I see it, is the long term plan. Wilder checks that box in that part of the field.

[RB957]

Wilder's performance on Saturday was what I had hoped for when I first saw him earlier in the season. Size, speed and explosion through the line. That didn't happen at first. He seemed tentative. Saturday was completely different. If he can deliver that kind of performance, we will be in good shape because that will take a lot of pressure off of the O line and having to consistently rely on the passing game. I also liked that Fajardo got some reps at the end of the game to secure those final first downs and kill any chance for Edmonton to get the ball back. I hope they develop some packages for him to keep opposing defenses off balance.

[Will]

A strong running attack should also allow Ricky to take more shots downfield as he's gotten away from that in the past month or so.

[AngeloV]

Most important, as I see it, is the long term plan. Wilder checks that box in that part of the field.

Honestly, with the way Free Agency works now, it's almost impossible to plan anything past the next season.

[Wobbler]

A couple more games close to Saturday's performance and Wilder will be in the NFL next year.

[OV Argo]

A couple more games close to Saturday's performance and Wilder will be in the NFL next year.


Can't tell if you're serious or joking there?

Wilder's CFL play is next to irrelevant for getting another NFL look; what could help him is that he is a known name and was a top prospect out of college ball there, plus is still fairly young - so one of his connections down there might land him another NFL look from a team that has not already written him off. But the NFL could care less about how good a RB plays up here - there are literally dozens of CFL RBs from the past number of years who are IMO 10x the RB talent of Wilder (including Messam (way bigger) and Andrew Harris, now), but the RB skills they demonstrated in the CFL mean zero/zip-o in terms of getting an NFL call.

Not meaning to slight Wilder - I was pulling for him when the Argos signed him; then disappointed by his early play - looked tentative or afraid to run hard; and then really pleased with his last game - he has some talent; but IMO - that was a game against a really weak Esks run defence (MLB Hoffman-Ellis in particular) and it might have caught them by surprise. I'll be way more impressed if Wilder rips off several more 100+ yard games in a row however. That still won't be the ticket for an NFL call though. Jon Cornish had how many thousand yard CFL seasons in a row, plus one of the best yards/carry averages for a RB in decades ? - he did not get an NFL call.

[doubleblue]

Can't tell if you're serious or joking there?

Wilder's CFL play is next to irrelevant for getting another NFL look; what could help him is that he is a known name and was a top prospect out of college ball there, plus is still fairly young - so one of his connections down there might land him another NFL look from a team that has not already written him off. But the NFL could care less about how good a RB plays up here - there are literally dozens of CFL RBs from the past number of years who are IMO 10x the RB talent of Wilder (including Messam (way bigger) and Andrew Harris, now), but the RB skills they demonstrated in the CFL mean zero/zip-o in terms of getting an NFL call.

Not meaning to slight Wilder - I was pulling for him when the Argos signed him; then disappointed by his early play - looked tentative or afraid to run hard; and then really pleased with his last game - he has some talent; but IMO - that was a game against a really weak Esks run defence (MLB Hoffman-Ellis in particular) and it might have caught them by surprise. I'll be way more impressed if Wilder rips off several more 100+ yard games in a row however. That still won't be the ticket for an NFL call though. Jon Cornish had how many thousand yard CFL seasons in a row, plus one of the best yards/carry averages for a RB in decades ? - he did not get an NFL call.

I read a few years ago that Cornish did get NFL interest and he turned it down. No doubt in my mind he was NFL calibre. IMO not every player in the NFL is better than all the CFL players.

[AngeloV]

A couple more games close to Saturday's performance and Wilder will be in the NFL next year.

That would be entirely up to the Argos. As a CFL rookie, he is bound to a 1 + 1 entry level contract.

[Wobbler]

That still won't be the ticket for an NFL call though. Jon Cornish had how many thousand yard CFL seasons in a row, plus one of the best yards/carry averages for a RB in decades ? - he did not get an NFL call.
Wilder's name will matter, strong performance (if he keeps it up) will matter, and his *age* will matter. At 25, he's still young and healthy enough to be worth investing in. Cornish was 28 by the time he started to dominate.


That would be entirely up to the Argos. As a CFL rookie, he is bound to a 1 + 1 entry level contract.
History suggests that the Argos would let him go.

[gilthethrill]

Wilder has one huge game and now all this NFL talk?

[Wobbler]

It's (very) premature, but I'd be cautious about planning my future offense around him. If you follow him on Twitter it's pretty obvious that he'd like to play in the NFL if someone gives him a shot.

[Jon Gonzo]

Honestly, with the way Free Agency works now, it's almost impossible to plan anything past the next season.

Jim Popp has a plan, which he has referred to on occasion. In fact, if any CFL GM's don't have them, they won't be around long. These are still football programs, regardless of FA, and that takes foresight and planning. The good ones are better at making them, and the best ones make them and implement them most effectively.

They still sign guys on 3 & 4 year contracts and with the ratio; it is even more important to work your Canadians up with an eye to the future.

[Argo57]

I read a few years ago that Cornish did get NFL interest and he turned it down. No doubt in my mind he was NFL calibre. IMO not every player in the NFL is better than all the CFL players.

I think most American players who come to the CFL are shocked at the quality of play, different game and skill set required to succeed.

[AngeloV]

They still sign guys on 3 & 4 year contracts and with the ratio; it is even more important to work your Canadians up with an eye to the future.

Oh really? Find me the last CFL contract that was for more than 2 years. The new free agency system with 2nd contracts only having to be 1 year changed all that, and it's only been in effect for 2 years now. Sorry, but the landscape has changed.

[Jon Gonzo]

Oh really? Find me the last CFL contract that was for more than 2 years. The new free agency system with 2nd contracts only having to be 1 year changed all that, and it's only been in effect for 2 years now. Sorry, but the landscape has changed.

So, CFL GM's don't have long term plans anymore?! Well, I'll be dipped in buttermilk, rolled in flour and you call me a corn dog then! Why didn't we just keep ole Jim Barker around?

[OV Argo]

Wilder has one huge game and now all this NFL talk?


Exactly.

And Butler, Laing, Woods, Posey, Ball and Tyler Holmes can all expect to be wooed by the NFL for next season.

[Wobbler]

There's no need to be petulant, JG. There are some players you can plan around long-term (e.g. guys who don't want to leave town and can be expected to accept fair offers) and some roles you can plan around long-term (e.g. easily-replaced players), but Angelo's right - long-term contracts just don't happen any more.

[Jon Gonzo]

There's no need to be petulant, JG. There are some players you can plan around long-term (e.g. guys who don't want to leave town and can be expected to accept fair offers) and some roles you can plan around long-term (e.g. easily-replaced players), but Angelo's right - long-term contracts just don't happen any more.

Was a joke, and that wasn't the original point I made. But yes of course, Angelo is right

[ArgoRavi]

Running back has been a traditionally difficult position for anyone looking to make the transition from the CFL to NFL. Mike Pringle tried and didn't make it. Off the top of my head, Cedric Minter might have been the last one to do it successfully. The late Jimmy Edwards spent some time with the Vikings after a successful tenure with the Ticats in the late 1970s.

[argolio]

Isn't it typically the CFL player (through agents setting up off-season workouts) who pursues the NFL and not the other way around?

[Wobbler]

Was a joke, and that wasn't the original point I made.
OK, but I don't know what your original point was. Never mind!

[OV Argo]

Running back has been a traditionally difficult position for anyone looking to make the transition from the CFL to NFL. Mike Pringle tried and didn't make it. Off the top of my head, Cedric Minter might have been the last one to do it successfully. The late Jimmy Edwards spent some time with the Vikings after a successful tenure with the Ticats in the late 1970s.


Gill Fenerty made the NFL via the Argos after Minter, and i think did more there.

Bo Scott & Vic Washington had pretty successful NFL careers after playing for the powerhouse Ottawa Rough Riders.

Pringle had an NFL try-out where they looked him more as a kick-returner ? - just not his strength.


Be glad the NFL super-scouts have either no clue about or else write-off a lot of CFL talent - and particularly at RB.

[jerrym]

Wilder was named offensive player of the week. No surprise after gaining 190 yards on the ground and 76 through the air. Former Argo Diontae Spencer was also named ST player of the week.

[Rich]

Gill Fenerty made the NFL via the Argos after Minter, and i think did more there.

Bo Scott & Vic Washington had pretty successful NFL careers after playing for the powerhouse Ottawa Rough Riders.

Pringle had an NFL try-out where they looked him more as a kick-returner ? - just not his strength.


Be glad the NFL super-scouts have either no clue about or else write-off a lot of CFL talent - and particularly at RB.

Kenton Keith had a couple of half-decent seasons with the Colts in the 00s.

[Argo57]

Wilder has one huge game and now all this NFL talk?

Wilder has proven that he has the ability to be an effective back, doing it consistently is another story.

[Jon Gonzo]

OK, but I don't know what your original point was. Never mind!


Here is my original point;

A lot more football to be played, but it's nice to see a younger back step up for us. It seems like a long time since we've had a dominant running game like that (Boyd, Kackert).

Brandon Whitaker is 32 and wasn't a priority re-signing in the off season. I actually think the team had designs of a Kendall Hunter/ James Wilder backfield going in.
At 32 the digression is not only predictable, but nearly certain. He's a fantastic player and team-mate and I doubt he's sung his last song yet, but it's essential for this team to progress with an eye on the long term plan.

O.Lineman generally won't look very good (nor will an offense) if all you do is pass protect. Especially with an immobile QB who is in his mid 30's and hasn't been able to stretch the D. That's a recipe for the infirmary. This new dimension will help and if they can keep the ball rolling could jell this team into a contender.

We may see Colaros and Ray in tandem towards the end of the season.

Most important, as I see it, is the long term plan. Wilder checks that box in that part of the field.

Well, that wasn't too outlandish now was it? And the rebuttal seems (to me) to be a stretch. It brushes off my statement with the implication that CFL GM's don't have master plans, which IMHO, is rubbish. I interjected humour to move on. We don't want a humourless board now do we? I have re-read my post several times and I can't really find issue with this original statement. But I guess someone can pick, if they feel like it.

If there is something I said here that seems way off base, Wobbler, go ahead and flame away. But do me a favour, before you come running to one of the old boys defense (which is sadly predictable in this little forum) please read the original thread through for an unbiased understanding. Us interlopers are not all bad, and we are knowledgeable fans too. Unless of course I am trespassing? Thank you.

[paulwoods13]

I don't think any GM makes long-term plans around young INT players. All of them aspire to move from the five-figure CFL to the six-figure NFL, several actually try every year and a few successfully make the jump. Unless you can persuade a guy to sign a first contract longer than two years, making long-term plans involving specific individual players who are new to the league would be a recipe for disappointment. Once you get a guy signed to a second contract, it makes more sense to see them as part of you team's future. But I reckon most if not all GMs view most players (apart from QBs and NAT starters) as fairly easy to replace.

[Scooter McCray]

Like most on here I was reaĺly happy to see a run game emerge. And I hope that it wasn't just a one off lucky game. Something about Wilder doesn't strike me as explosive running back capable of breaking big gainers like a Kackert. That big run he had was due to good blocking and Edmonton defence shifted to strong side for the pass. Where he excelled last game was the punishing run over people for 6 yards. That seemed to be missing until last week. Hopefully he brings it every game like the great RBS do.

[ArgoGabe22]

Here is my original point;

A lot more football to be played, but it's nice to see a younger back step up for us. It seems like a long time since we've had a dominant running game like that (Boyd, Kackert).

Brandon Whitaker is 32 and wasn't a priority re-signing in the off season. I actually think the team had designs of a Kendall Hunter/ James Wilder backfield going in.
At 32 the digression is not only predictable, but nearly certain. He's a fantastic player and team-mate and I doubt he's sung his last song yet, but it's essential for this team to progress with an eye on the long term plan.

O.Lineman generally won't look very good (nor will an offense) if all you do is pass protect. Especially with an immobile QB who is in his mid 30's and hasn't been able to stretch the D. That's a recipe for the infirmary. This new dimension will help and if they can keep the ball rolling could jell this team into a contender.

We may see Colaros and Ray in tandem towards the end of the season.

Most important, as I see it, is the long term plan. Wilder checks that box in that part of the field.

Well, that wasn't too outlandish now was it? And the rebuttal seems (to me) to be a stretch. It brushes off my statement with the implication that CFL GM's don't have master plans, which IMHO, is rubbish. I interjected humour to move on. We don't want a humourless board now do we? I have re-read my post several times and I can't really find issue with this original statement. But I guess someone can pick, if they feel like it.

If there is something I said here that seems way off base, Wobbler, go ahead and flame away. But do me a favour, before you come running to one of the old boys defense (which is sadly predictable in this little forum) please read the original thread through for an unbiased understanding. Us interlopers are not all bad, and we are knowledgeable fans too. Unless of course I am trespassing? Thank you.

Your original point mentioned contracts up to 3-4 years in length. Now, you have excluded that point - which Angelo was referring to. I don't see a problem with disputing that long term contracts are no longer the norm.

[Jon Gonzo]

I don't think any GM makes long-term plans around young INT players. All of them aspire to move from the five-figure CFL to the six-figure NFL, several actually try every year and a few successfully make the jump. Unless you can persuade a guy to sign a first contract longer than two years, making long-term plans involving specific individual players who are new to the league would be a recipe for disappointment. Once you get a guy signed to a second contract, it makes more sense to see them as part of you team's future. But I reckon most if not all GMs view most players (apart from QBs and NAT starters) as fairly easy to replace.

Yes, but Paul there is a reason a team like Calgary contends every year. Look at how long their key Int vets stay. It's a solid question is it not? Why?

[Jon Gonzo]

Your original point mentioned contracts up to 3-4 years in length. Now, you have excluded that point - which Angelo was referring to. I don't see a problem with disputing that long term contracts are no longer the norm.


I omitted nothing. That is the original post, verbatim.

[Jon Gonzo]

Like most on here I was reaĺly happy to see a run game emerge. And I hope that it wasn't just a one off lucky game. Something about Wilder doesn't strike me as explosive running back capable of breaking big gainers like a Kackert. That big run he had was due to good blocking and Edmonton defence shifted to strong side for the pass. Where he excelled last game was the punishing run over people for 6 yards. That seemed to be missing until last week. Hopefully he brings it every game like the great RBS do.

I found that his upright style makes it easier for defenders to tackle to be honest. He's almost too much of a target. That's why Pringle types are so hard to tackle. They are like muscle balls.

[Will]

Fenerty played a few years with the Saints after he left the Argos following the 1989 season. I didn't realize he had played in the NFL before coming to Toronto. Cedric Minter played a year or two for the New York Jets before coming back to Toronto for the 1986 season where ironically the arrival of Fenerty made him expendable and he was traded for Gilbert Renfroe.

Pringle's problem in the NFL was presumably signing with the Broncos. No chance he was uprooting Terrell Davis from the starting job on that team.

[ArgoGabe22]

I omitted nothing. That is the original post, verbatim.

Ok, well your second post mentioned it which I saw Angelo reply to, in which you replied back, and the saw Wobbler reply to your response. Point is, what is so bad with disputing contract lengths and asking for the last contract that was actually 2+ years?

[paulwoods13]

Yes, but Paul there is a reason a team like Calgary contends every year. Look at how long their key Int vets stay. It's a solid question is it not? Why?

I think it's fairly clear that there are many reasons Calgary contends every year. One of those reasons is relatively low turnover. But they have lost players to the NFL and free agency just as others have. I don't believe the key to their success is that they do long-term planning and others don't, or that Calgary's long-term planning is smarter and better than other teams'. I think that would be an over-simplification.

[AngeloV]

I don't think any GM makes long-term plans around young INT players. All of them aspire to move from the five-figure CFL to the six-figure NFL, several actually try every year and a few successfully make the jump. Unless you can persuade a guy to sign a first contract longer than two years, making long-term plans involving specific individual players who are new to the league would be a recipe for disappointment. Once you get a guy signed to a second contract, it makes more sense to see them as part of you team's future. But I reckon most if not all GMs view most players (apart from QBs and NAT starters) as fairly easy to replace.

My guess is that players themselves, as well as their agents are reluctant to sign any deal longer than 1 or 2 years these days. With contracts not guaranteed, there is absolutely no incentive to do so. They are not protected against injury, or an off season by doing this.

For the record, I never said that trying to get long term stability is a bad thing. I just don't believe it is really doable. All GM's need to play for today, because the way the league is now, nobody has any clue what they will have tomorrow. That includes the draft. Unlike in hockey or baseball, teams do not retain rights after an entry level contract.

To me, the league should put in something that will allow teams to keep their own free agents. Maybe something like if a free agent re-signs with their own team, 10 or 15% of that contract would not count against the cap. That would allow teams to pay more in order to keep their own. Everybody wins in this scenario.

[Argo]

To me, the league should put in something that will allow teams to keep their own free agents. Maybe something like if a free agent re-signs with their own team, 10 or 15% of that contract would not count against the cap. That would allow teams to pay more in order to keep their own. Everybody wins in this scenario.

Good idea.

[Argo57]

I think it's fairly clear that there are many reasons Calgary contends every year. One of those reasons is relatively low turnover. But they have lost players to the NFL and free agency just as others have. I don't believe the key to their success is that they do long-term planning and others don't, or that Calgary's long-term planning is smarter and better than other teams'. I think that would be an over-simplification.

Stampeders are very good at recruiting players to fit their system(s), players are also drawn to successful programs to which success breeds success.
Hufnagel and his staff have done a great job!

[Jon Gonzo]

Stampeders are very good at recruiting players to fit their system(s), players are also drawn to successful programs to which success breeds success.
Hufnagel and his staff have done a great job!


And they tend to stay on....which is good for continuity and a successful application of a long range plan, which is good for the team, which is good for results, which is good for the fans and good for the league.

Jim Barker's undoing was getting away from continuity, cos when he had it, the Argos won. We've seen this time and time again in this league. It's an unstable league, but those who can be 'less unstable' tend to have the most success.

[Rich]

Stampeders are very good at recruiting players to fit their system(s), players are also drawn to successful programs to which success breeds success.
Hufnagel and his staff have done a great job!

This is what it's all about, longer-term planning is all about the next man up at every position. Jim Popp should already be looking for another big, strong, athletic RB who can catch, bring him in next year to learn the system in case Wilder bolts in 2019. I'm tired of all these tiny little scatbacks the Argos bring into TC every season. You plan to have a certain kind of offence (and defence) year after year, and the plan either succeeds or fails largely because of the personnel.

[Al&Kat]

Getting back to Wilder, I hung around a bit after the game and met Mrs. Wilder.
You can't miss her, in her #32 jersey. I happily congratulated her on her husband's
best game (so far) and wished her and James the best for the rest of the season. Nice lady.

[AngeloV]

I found that his upright style makes it easier for defenders to tackle to be honest. He's almost too much of a target. That's why Pringle types are so hard to tackle. They are like muscle balls.

Eric Dickerson and Robert Drummond are 2 very successful backs in different leagues that had an upright running style.

[PullTogether73]

Getting back to Wilder, I hung around a bit after the game and met Mrs. Wilder.
You can't miss her, in her #32 jersey. I happily congratulated her on her husband's
best game (so far) and wished her and James the best for the rest of the season. Nice lady.

S.J. Green's wife has sat in my section for a few games this year. She is always there with her young son and daughter in tow.
They are all wearing Argos jerseys with #19 on them. "Mrs. Green", "Lil' SJ", and I can't remember the daughter's nameplate.
Handsome family.

[R.J]

Eric Dickerson and Robert Drummond are 2 very successful backs in different leagues that had an upright running style.
Cornish also ran upright, Messam as well come to think of it.

[Jon Gonzo]

Eric Dickerson and Robert Drummond are 2 very successful backs in different leagues that had an upright running style.

This is true and I would be very happy if this guy was even a quarter as good as those two. My point is, you certainly don't see it everyday.

[gilthethrill]

Cornish also ran upright, Messam as well come to think of it.

Yes he did...made an easy target for Herberts high tackle.