When Buono says the Situation in BC is Bad, it's Disastrous - Thanks to Guess Who

[jerrym]

Wally's recent comment that "I didn't come back to coach to put myself through this misery. I came back because I felt the franchise needed to be stable." has much more to do with the instability created by Braley's ownership than with the player personnel on the field. It all sounds depressingly familiar to Argo fans. That's why I posted on the Double Blue website.



Somehow, their football issues seem almost trivial compared to their off-field dilemma where owner David Braley is, theoretically, trying to sell the team in what is likely Buono’s last year on the job. And did we mention the Lions are in need of a new president? ...
“This is miserable,” [Buono] said. “You think I’m having fun? You think I need the money? Come on. I don’t need any of this.” ... "Believe me, I know (about the problems) more than anybody. I’m the only one here. We have no president and David (Braley) has a lot of things he’s dealing with. He’s trusting me.”
But, while revealing, Buono’s angst isn’t really the issue. Looking forward, the Lions can’t begin to address their difficulties until the team is sold, a new president is appointed and Buono’s successor is named. You have to admit, solving all that is a little more complicated than finding a new field corner or free safety, so where do things sit now with the sale of the team? ...
Braley has told CFL commissioner Randy Ambrosie — more intrigue, the league has taken a great interest in the Lions’ file — there are three separate entities interested in buying the Lions and all are legitimate. Now, we can’t provide details on two of the parties, other than to report the interest of Canucks owner Francesco Aquilini has waned, but we can tell you the third is a group made up of The Waterboys, the support network established by the late, great Bob Ackles, and they satisfy a lot of the criteria Braley set down for the new owners. ...

The Waterboys group — which is headed by car magnate Moray Keith and insurance man Mark Woodall — has already made several pitches to the Hamilton-based industrialist and presented scenarios where he maintains an interest in the team or is bought out all together.
But their efforts have yet to result in anything concrete, and that raises questions. Part of the problem is likely over the perceived value of the franchise.
One source said if Braley would have gotten $20 million for the Lions, the deal would likely be concluded by now. ...

That leaves one other explanation, and it’s disturbing. There’s some thought that, despite his public statements, Braley won’t sell the team. Instead, he’ll hang on and try to talk Buono into another year, and that would spell disaster for the Lions. The 2017 season has been bad enough but you can imagine going through it again; a year with a lame-duck GM and head coach, a year when the business-side is under-funded; a year when there’s no clear direction for the future. Another year of that would leave wounds from which the franchise might never recover. Braley has always said his concern is about the health and well-being of the Lions.
Now it’s time to prove it.


http://theprovince.com/sports/football/cfl/bc-lions/ed-willes-off-field-questions-around-teams-sale-compounding-buonos-miserable-year

[Mightygoose]

Though this will likey be moved to the CFL sub-forum, it's really too bad that things have deteriorated so much.

Too bad to hear the Canucks interest has waned but if the owner isn't motivated or is not asking for a realistic price-point they can only stick around for so long.

It's mirroring the final few years under his stewardship of the Argos. No vested ownership, no president and the football ops in limbo. The only difference is they're not getting evited from their stadium so no need for a new home.

If this isn't sold by the end of the year, to what extent the league gets involved?

[Argofan_1000]

Though this will likey be moved to the CFL sub-forum, it's really too bad that things have deteriorated so much.

Too bad to hear the Canucks interest has waned but if the owner isn't motivated or is not asking for a realistic price-point they can only stick around for so long.

It's mirroring the final few years under his stewardship of the Argos. No vested ownership, no president and the football ops in limbo. The only difference is they're not getting evited from their stadium so no need for a new home.

If this isn't sold by the end of the year, to what extent the league gets involved?

I think the League will get involved after GC. Braley has had a great run but he is not the owner that will take this team forward.

[R.J]

The CFL needs to rid itself of Braley, should have happened a long time ago IMO. If the rumour is true that the Aquillini's are losing interest, it's not looking good in BC, Aqullini's and Sidoo would be huge for that team IMO.

[Mightygoose]

Naylor's take on the non-sale to date.

http://www.tsn.ca/braley-doesn-t-expect-to-sell-lions-this-year-1.887505

Braley says the 2 concussion lawsuits are holding up the sale.

TSN's legal analyst Eric Macramalla says the lawsuits are a factor but pose minimal risk to new owners.

Just more of me thinks the below is the bigger issue.

Quote



It is believed the Waterboys group is willing to pay in the $14 million to $15 million range, while Braley is believed be seeking about $20 million, according to sources


Sadly, the longer this drags out, the lower the want and willing prices will appears to be http://forums.cfl.ca/Smileys/default/sad.gif<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[R.J]

A part of me thinks it's good that Braley wants good value for the Lions, but it's pretty evident that the Lions are losing ground in the Greater Vancouver area. Not that the Canucks are even as strong as they once were or that the Whitecaps are extremely strong (looks like they're fudging the attendance numbers), but it's clear that the Canucks are still "the team" in the lower mainland, the whitecaps have gained a much greater popularity since joing the MLS, and the Seahawks fanbase has exploded in BC for some reason. Something is wrong here though, as it seems the Lions are going downhill as oppsed to up or even stabilizing.

I think Braley has to be careful here. It would suck to lose the Aquilini and Sidoo's interest, or even "the waterboys" for that matter IMO.

[jerrym]

Naylor's take on the non-sale to date.

http://www.tsn.ca/braley-doesn-t-expect-to-sell-lions-this-year-1.887505

Braley says the 2 concussion lawsuits are holding up the sale.

TSN's legal analyst Eric Macramalla says the lawsuits are a factor but pose minimal risk to new owners.

Just more of me thinks the below is the bigger issue.

Quote
It is believed the Waterboys group is willing to pay in the $14 million to $15 million range, while Braley is believed be seeking about $20 million, according to sources








Sadly, the longer this drags out, the lower the want and willing prices will appears to be http://forums.cfl.ca/Smileys/default/sad.gif<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

if Braley has been offered 14-15 million he should take the money and run before things completely fall apart.

[jerrym]

Farhan Lalji reported during the Edmonton-BC broadcast that Braley is now saying that the sale of the Lions may not happen this calendar year due to "complicating factors", leaving the Lions future further up in the air.

[Will]

Farhan Lalji reported during the Edmonton-BC broadcast that Braley is now saying that the sale of the Lions may not happen this calendar year due to "complicating factors", leaving the Lions future further up in the air.

Weren't there "complicating factors" in getting the Argo sale completed?

[AngeloV]

Weren't there "complicating factors" in getting the Argo sale completed?

Yeah. He overvalued the franchise. That was the complication and I'm betting the same thing is happening in B.C.

[R.J]

Yeah. He overvalued the franchise. That was the complication and I'm betting the same thing is happening in B.C.
And yet some still blame Rogers for the Argos purchase. Admittedly Rogers did slow it down a bit early on, but Braley always seems to have excuses for why he doesn't sell right away. While I appreciate Braley taking over the Lions, the sooner he's out of the League, the better IMO.

[Mightygoose]

No question Rogers made it difficult by both evicting them from their current home and the lease to BMO had to go through them as well. In BC's case there is no issue with the stadium.

But yes, Braley has been getting in his own way on both fronts. He said recently that the concussion lawsuits are holding up the sale. They've been going on for over 2 years and the one with Arland Bruce should be resolved before the end of the year. Question I have is, why is Braley bringing this up now?

[R.J]

No question Rogers made it difficult by both evicting them from their current home and the lease to BMO had to go through them as well. In BC's case there is no issue with the stadium.

But yes, Braley has been getting in his own way on both fronts. He said recently that the concussion lawsuits are holding up the sale. They've been going on for over 2 years and the one with Arland Bruce should be resolved before the end of the year. Question I have is, why is Braley bringing this up now?
My guess is that he's being asked about it a lot lately, so he needed an excuse.

[AngeloV]

And yet some still blame Rogers for the Argos purchase. Admittedly Rogers did slow it down a bit early on, but Braley always seems to have excuses for why he doesn't sell right away. While I appreciate Braley taking over the Lions, the sooner he's out of the League, the better IMO.

That's how I feel too. I felt the same way when he owned the Argos.

[R.J]

That's how I feel too. I felt the same way when he owned the Argos.
I respect the fact that Braley took over the Argos (even though the League could have, maybe they didn't want to ?), Ticats, and Lions, but he's been a terrible Owner for all 3 IMO. Ackles deserves full credit for saving the Lions IMO.

[ArgoRavi]

I respect the fact that Braley took over the Argos (even though the League could have, maybe they didn't want to ?), Ticats, and Lions, but he's been a terrible Owner for all 3 IMO. Ackles deserves full credit for saving the Lions IMO.

Agreed. Braley will leave the Lions in only slightly better shape than how he found them, assuming he does sell early enough in the off-season.

[timlb01]

This is unfortunate as we learned as Argo fans but really if he was running a NHL team like this who would care other than the fans of that team. We are just too sensitive when it is a CFL team and it translates into bad news for the league we all love. I hope he moves on sooner rather than later. Running a professional sports team is very different than running a part business. I thought his health issues last year would have sped this up.

[R.J]

This is unfortunate as we learned as Argo fans but really if he was running a NHL team like this who would care other than the fans of that team. We are just too sensitive when it is a CFL team and it translates into bad news for the league we all love. I hope he moves on sooner rather than later. Running a professional sports team is very different than running a part business. I thought his health issues last year would have sped this up.
Lots of talk about Sens games looking empty the last season, playoffs and 10 games, Canucks have been brought up the last two years, and Montreal not selling out a couple of games ago was brought up as well. No Canadian NHL teams are currently up for sale, so not sure how the situation is the same.

[Mightygoose]

Lots of talk about Sens games looking empty the last season, playoffs and 10 games, Canucks have been brought up the last two years, and Montreal not selling out a couple of games ago was brought up as well. No Canadian NHL teams are currently up for sale, so not sure how the situation is the same.

Agreed it's not the same with the Canadian based NHL teams.

The closer compareble is Carolina IMO. Though Karmanos has never owned 2 teams at once, but the Hurricanes have been for sale for about 3 years. Karmanos is in his 70s and not the greatest of health, same as Braley. Part of the NHL executive committee (until earlier in the year) so has a long term tenue as an owenr, same as Braley.

Hurricanes attendance has been declining significantly, there's an interested prospective owner in Chuck Greenburg but Karmanos has valuated the team at 500 million (was asking for 400 million when it first started) and there is no owners wanting to pay what he wants. Greenburg is looking for investors to meet that price point.

Karmanos continues to be half comittal weather he'll sell or not while he continues to be an absentee owner and has even suggested that he'll raise the price if a sale doesn't close soon. Similar to Braley wanting more than anyone is willing to pay yet what the franchsie is really worth keeps declining.

[jerrym]

Buono and even the players are starting to raise questions about the future of the team.



Buono has a contract to serve in his current dual capacity until Feb. 1 and as a consultant until August. Buono said he would like to know if he is needed but hasn't spoken to Braley about his future, and has no plans to do so until the Lions have completed their schedule.

That hasn't stopped calls for clarity, however, and Buono met with his team prior to their 35-29 overtime loss Saturday to the Edmonton Eskimos to answer concerns from players as to who might be in charge of their future. Some 24 players will be eligible for free agency in the off-season.



http://www.metronews.ca/sports/2017/10/25/questions-on-gridiron-and-in-boardroom-loom-as-lions-close-out-season.html

[jerrym]

Going into the Lions final game of the season against the Argos, uncertainty about the future of the team still reigns.



B.C. closes a disappointing season by playing host to the Toronto Argonauts, who can secure the top spot in the East Division and a Nov. 19 home playoff date with a victory.
A B.C. win would give the idle Ottawa Redblacks the East.Buono, meanwhile, faces a far less glamorous end, admitting he doesn’t know if he’s retiring after a 15-year run with the Lions, but is nonetheless content if he’s about to coach his last game.The uncertainty over the future of the Lions’ coach and general manager has overshadowed the regular-season finale. Buono said he is purposely waiting until the season is over before discussing his future with owner David Braley, who has previously stated he won’t entertain sale discussions while potential concussion litigation is pending against the club.
Though the Lions have unveiled 2018 season-ticket-renewal plans, suggesting the club will remain in control of the Hamilton-based owner, the team’s head of football operations has nonetheless made it clear a vision for the club needs to be outlined quickly.
“I want to hear what the owner wants to do,” Buono said. “We’re in a situation that we need to clean up. Not that it’s not fixable — I need to burn the ship and get to a point where there’s no more season and I don’t have a contract to coach, then we discuss the next option.”
https://www.pressreader.com/canada/vancouver-sun/20171104/282316795306435

[jerrym]

Buono now says Braley intends to own the Lions through the 2018 season. When Wally announced this, reporters asked him to repeat it because the news came as a surprise since the signs were that the sale would occur early next year, after already being delayed from Grey Cup week. While this may be a fig leaf attempt to stabilize a rapidly deteriorating attendance situation, it is reminiscent of the problem the Argos faced as Braley dragged out the sale of the team indefinitely.



Wally Buono was asked to repeat his answer a second time, just so it was crystal clear. While discussing his own future with the B.C. Lions following a miserable campaign that started with sky-high expectations, the legendary head coach and general manager offered a surprising and unsolicited detail — David Braley plans to continue owning the team for the entirety of next season. ...

The "for sale" sign remains in the window, but as it stands Braley will be in control until at least the end of next season for a club that has seen a sharp decline in attendance over the last few years.
"David's very candid about the fact he will the owner in 2018," said Buono. "That's something that needs to be definite. We need to have definite direction. "It applies with David, with the business part of the organization and the football part of the organization."
Buono added his status will also be determined in the near future. "We need to address that very quickly," said the 67-year-old, who has been with the B.C. since 2003. "I need to sit down with the coaches to just give them some clarity on where we're at. Then the process will start with David."


http://www.calgaryherald.com/sports/buono+braley+plans+lions+2018/15544350/story.html

[Mightygoose]

Well people have bee wanting have some clarity on the ownership front and now we just got it. Not the answer that's wanted.

Let's see the team is owned by someone running the team over 4000km away, no president, a lame duck GM and Coach who may not come back.

What top candidates would want to go there when the boss on top is there essentially on a year to year basis? Never mind this team will be at the bottom of any FA's list.

I can see why potential suitors have waned. Can't have a buyer without a serious seller.

[Scooter McCray]

This is unfortunate as we learned as Argo fans but really if he was running a NHL team like this who would care other than the fans of that team. We are just too sensitive when it is a CFL team and it translates into bad news for the league we all love. I hope he moves on sooner rather than later. Running a professional sports team is very different than running a part business. I thought his health issues last year would have sped this up.In the NHL there is no shortage of markets Bettman can extort money from to move the bad franchises if he has to. The CFL is so small all of the fans are invested into its wellbeing. We want 10 franchises not 8 again. And 10 strong ones so critics no longer have ammunition.

[Antwon]

It's become painfully clear that Braley has no intentions of selling. He publicly stated the sale could not go through until the concussion lawsuit was settled. But it was reported that one interested buyer would work though that. Having seen this from an Argonaut perspective...this is bad for the league as a whole.
I feel bad for Buono, he probably wants to walk away due to the frustration of dealing with Braley. But then would feel like he's abandoning them as their worst moment.
As much as Braley has done for the league, he's all but ruined his legacy with what he did with the Argos and now the Lions!

[Scooter McCray]

It's become painfully clear that Braley has no intentions of selling. He publicly stated the sale could not go through until the concussion lawsuit was settled. But it was reported that one interested buyer would work though that. Having seen this from an Argonaut perspective...this is bad for the league as a whole.
I feel bad for Buono, he probably wants to walk away due to the frustration of dealing with Braley. But then would feel like he's abandoning them as their worst moment.
As much as Braley has done for the league, he's all but ruined his legacy with what he did with the Argos and now the Lions!I agree 100%. I was grateful he saved the Argos, but then I saw he was getting every Grey Cup game, pocketing those revenues and cutting staff and not capitalizing on the 100th Grey Cup win in Toronto or the 99th Grey Cup win in Vancouver. He has torn down these franchises yet expects a big payout from a buyer who is only going to have to sink lots of capital into the Team to make it a going concern again. I hope the CFL steps in and demands he sell to a party now.

[AngeloV]

It's become painfully clear that Braley has no intentions of selling. He publicly stated the sale could not go through until the concussion lawsuit was settled. But it was reported that one interested buyer would work though that. Having seen this from an Argonaut perspective...this is bad for the league as a whole.
I feel bad for Buono, he probably wants to walk away due to the frustration of dealing with Braley. But then would feel like he's abandoning them as their worst moment.
As much as Braley has done for the league, he's all but ruined his legacy with what he did with the Argos and now the Lions!

That concussion excuse from Braley IMO is a cover up of the real reason he won't sell. He has likely overvalued the worth of the franchise, and nobody is giving him an offer which is in the same ball park of what he is looking for.

[R.J]

Still trying to figure out why this is in the Main Forum instead of the CFL forum ???

[jerrym]

The future of Braley and the BC Lions is still up in the air.



To recap, Braley has said there are three parties interested in the Lions. One of those is a local group headed by car magnate Moray Keith and insurance executive Mark Woodall, who’ve been involved with The Waterboys over the years.
They’re not as convinced there are two other entities competing for the team. They’ve also waited patiently as Braley worked his way through, ahem, the ‘process,’ but considering the magnitude of this deal and the many issues which need to be addressed, time is now of the essence.
For starters, the actual sale of the team is going to take 50 to 60 days to be finalized, and that’s if everything goes smoothly. The new owners will have to be vetted by the league. There are lawyers to be consulted and documents to be drawn up. The Lions’ lease with B.C. Place also expires at the end of this season, which means a new deal has to be negotiated with the landlords.
OK, let’s say all that can be concluded in a couple of months. That still takes us to mid-January and just weeks before the CFL’s free-agency period begins on Feb. 1. Crucial personnel decisions have to be made there. There is still the question over who coaches and who manages the new organization along with season-ticket sales and corporate sponsorships.
These are all massive considerations for the new owners. Put it this way: They’re going to be asking their corporate sponsors to invest in the neighbourhood of 100 grand in their vision for the team.
It will be tricky making that ask if there isn’t a head coach or GM in place.
Buono, meanwhile, maintains he hasn’t fully made up his mind about next year. His contract as head coach and GM expires in February but there’s a provision to stay on as a consultant through August. He’s also left the door open about a possible return — you can never accuse Buono about painting himself into a corner — all of which raises more uncertainty.
Braley hasn’t helped there. The Lions have already restructured season-ticket prices for next year and sent out renewal forms. Maybe that qualifies as business as usual, but it’s not business as usual when Braley tells reporters he’s interviewed candidates for the Lions’ vacant presidency while he’s trying to sell the team.
That’s, of course, if he’s trying to sell the team. On top of everything else, there’s some thought that Braley likes the idea of owning the Lions and won’t sell. Without putting too fine an edge on things, that would be a disaster for this franchise.
As mentioned, The Waterboys have waited patiently as all this has unfolded around them. It’s been trying for them, trying for the organization and, most importantly, trying for the Lions’ fan base.
Buono, who’s acted as Braley’s human shield this year, has always said nothing good ever comes of losing and that’s true. But losing amid confusion over ownership, the general manager, the coach and team’s future is something else entirely.
It’s time to clear up that confusion.


http://theprovince.com/sports/football/ed-willes-as-the-season-ends-for-the-b-c-lions-the-real-work-begins

[AngeloV]

The future of Braley and the BC Lions is still up in the air.



http://theprovince.com/sports/football/ed-willes-as-the-season-ends-for-the-b-c-lions-the-real-work-begins

So after reading all that, I predict they will be a similar success story to the 2017 Argos.

:)