REGULAR SEASON FINALE GAME THREAD / Week 20 / Argos @ Lions

[Wobbler]

As previously posted by jerrym and timlb01, Coombs and Lemon are expected to return this week. If they help us to win and secure the playoff bye: great! If we lose, at least they'll be warmed up for when things get serious...

Travelling to the west coast is always tough and B.C. is talented, but I'm expecting a big win.

[timlb01]

As previously posted by jerrym and timlb01, Coombs and Lemon are expected to return this week. If they help us to win and secure the playoff bye: great! If we lose, at least they'll be warmed up for when things get serious...

Travelling to the west coast is always tough and B.C. is talented, but I'm expecting a big win.

I agree with you. I think the team will be ready and primed. This game will be very tight I believe. Is there any word on Marcus Ball and when he may return? Looking forward to watching the game.

[Jon Gonzo]

I agree with you. I think the team will be ready and primed. This game will be very tight I believe. Is there any word on Marcus Ball and when he may return? Looking forward to watching the game.

I read somewhere; not this week, but for the Playoffs. Lemon may be in, depending on a coach's roster decision.

[Antwon]

I heard today on TSN 1150 that the Lions will be giving QB Alex Ross some playing time this game.

[RB957]

I heard today on TSN 1150 that the Lions will be giving QB Alex Ross some playing time this game.

If that is true, let's hope that he doesn't have the type of game against us that Brandon Bridge did when we played the Roughriders. IMO, the Argos really need this victory to build confidence for a run to the Grey Cup. I don't like their chances as much if they have to first win the Eastern semi-final against a West division team.

[timlb01]

If that is true, let's hope that he doesn't have the type of game against us that Brandon Bridge did when we played the Roughriders. IMO, the Argos really need this victory to build confidence for a run to the Grey Cup. I don't like their chances as much if they have to first win the Eastern semi-final against a West division team.

I agree that if we do not finish first this could be a quick playoff experience.

[timlb01]

I read somewhere; not this week, but for the Playoffs. Lemon may be in, depending on a coach's roster decision.

I read yesterday and posted it that Lemon is expected to play in BC. I am very curious about Marcus Ball though.

[gilthethrill]

If that is true, let's hope that he doesn't have the type of game against us that Brandon Bridge did when we played the Roughriders. IMO, the Argos really need this victory to build confidence for a run to the Grey Cup. I don't like their chances as much if they have to first win the Eastern semi-final against a West division team.

If Alex Ross steps onto the field Saturday night expect the Argo defence to make him look like Alex P. Keaton. Another bye week should give Marcus Ball time to heal fully.

[AngeloV]

If Alex Ross steps onto the field Saturday night expect the Argo defence to make him look like Alex P. Keaton. Another bye week should give Marcus Ball time to heal fully.

Are you saying Ross is a member of the young Republicans?

[gilthethrill]

Are you saying Ross is a member of the young Republicans?

Yes! That is exactly what I am saying!

[argotom]

This is our playoff game in BC, even though it is not a must win I say we have to win and in an impressive manner.

[jerrym]

With Wilder running wild again and Coombs and Lemon back, I'm expecting an Argo win even if Jennings plays like he did last yard as he did against Winnipeg.

[AngeloV]

Depth chart is out.
Coombs, Lemon and Woodson are all back. Looks like Darby is out with Ford moving to HB and White back to field corner. Jones backs up Coombs in place of an injured Ralph. With the exception of Ball, Ralph and Darby, this might be the healthiest line up all year.

https://d3ham790trbkqy.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/sites/8/2017/11/ArgosDepth_vsBCNov4.pdf

[paulwoods13]

Sorry to see both Harris and Darby out. Ford has been OK this year, but Harris is better IMO. Good to see Lemon and, of course, Coombs back. With no McDaniel, I don't know who the emergency kicker is. I assume Mathews and either Woodson or Webster will be scratched. Wonder how much PT Bass will get at LB.

Note Ralph has been six-gamed. Given there would be little or no salary saving from such a move at this time of year, I am guessing his season is over, unfortunately.

[cfl-cis fan]

Sorry to see both Harris and Darby out. Ford has been OK this year, but Harris is better IMO. Good to see Lemon and, of course, Coombs back. With no McDaniel, I don't know who the emergency kicker is. I assume Mathews and either Woodson or Webster will be scratched. Wonder how much PT Bass will get at LB.

Note Ralph has been six-gamed. Given there would be little or no salary saving from such a move at this time of year, I am guessing his season is over, unfortunately.

think the emergency Kicker/Punter is Malcolm Williams

[Wobbler]

Note Ralph has been six-gamed. Given there would be little or no salary saving from such a move at this time of year, I am guessing his season is over, unfortunately.
Where did you see that? The transaction wire shows him going on the 1 game IR and so does the team roster.

[paulwoods13]

I thought it said six at the bottom of second page of the depth chart.

[ArgoRavi]

I thought it said six at the bottom of second page of the depth chart.

Further up, it says that he has been placed on the one-game; at the bottom, it says the six-game but I am inclined to believe the former over the latter. One newspaper article this week seemed to indicate that it was a minor foot injury that Ralph has.

[Joe Barnes]

It should be a great game. Argos have 1st place on the line and BC, favourites to contend for the Grey Cup at the outset of the season, have a lot of pride (haha, pride...Lions...okay, stop) and would love to win out at home. Still, I see Argos coming out strong, well rested after the bye (thus taking the edge off of the time difference and travel). If BC stays in the game into the 2nd half, it'll be an entertaining finish, as they have a lot of talent and nothing to lose. I still see Argos winning in the end, as I believe they really, as a franchise, would prefer to host the East Final, as they'd have more time to promote that game.

[argotom]

A quick start is needed as we get the kickoff.

[argotom]

Boy we got lucky on that bad pass completion to Green.

[argotom]

Just what the doctor could have ordered, a long time consuming sustained drive and we cannot punch it in.
Our achilles heel and especially heading into the playoffs.

[argotom]

Now that's what we need more in the red zone, a TD.

[Wobbler]

The team looks motivated tonight. B.C., unsurprisingly, doesn't.

Wilder might nail down the ROY award in the next hour or so.

[argotom]

Steam rolling on all cylinders, but 12 points left on the field.

[Ace]

Looking good so far -- too bad Coombs didn't catch that one - likely a TD.

D doing a great job.

Wonder if we will put Fajardo in the second half if we scored another TD?
since we scored another TD to Posey

[Joe Barnes]

Steam rolling on all cylinders, but 12 points left on the field.

Looking good, so far...but I fear our red zone troubles are going to come back to haunt us in the next few weeks...

[argotom]

The tale of two opposite teams as BC looks like they have mailed it in.

[Wobbler]

An injury to Wilder Jr. is the last thing we need...

Whew. No big deal.

[argotom]

Wilder and our O line is awesome today.

[Argos1983]

Woo hoo!! ---- Eastern Final at BMO here we come.....let's fill the damn place on November 19th ---- time to start marketing the crap out of this game!! --- we also have the benefit of likely having some "visitor" tickets sold from Ottawa or Saskatchewan fans as well.....would be nice to have a LOUD HOME crowd.....(let's not mention our last three Eastern Finals hosting results - 2005/2007/2013 :().....we honoured 1996/1997 this year, let's perform like them in 2017.....

[Wobbler]

Time to rest Ray, Wilder, Green, and other key people. Hopefully.

[Wobbler]

Two illegal kickoffs by Hajrullahu?

[Will]

Argos went into BC and did precisely what they needed to do so full marks for finally putting forth 60 minutes!

[Stevoman]

Great game, I love blowouts in important games! Need to convert more in the redzone come playoff time though. Also concerned about Martese Jackson being injured. I think this team needed the bye week so that players like Jackson and Ball can get rested up and healed for the East Final.
This has been a great year and there are so many things to like about this team. Happy that we get to keep watching in November!

[Joe Barnes]

Well, that was what we wanted. A very good showing and now two weeks to heal (Jackson?) and market this game. The team looks very well positioned. We've beaten Ottawa, come very close with Saskatchewan, and beaten both Winnipeg and Edmonton, should we and they get that far. Calgary? Looks beatable, right now. This year's Cup is up for grabs! Why not the Argos? Hopefully we can get a big, loud home crowd out to the Eastern Final!

[Bleeds Double Blue]

Just got home from the game where I ran my personal in attendance winning streak to 7. I don't know what it is but with my ass in the seat the Argos always win. The last 7 times anyway. Tonight's game was an all round dominant performance in all phases of the game with the exception of the two out of bounds kickoffs. What's up with that?

A hearty shout out to the much maligned O-line! They were magnificent tonight as was the defense.

Considering the turmoil that this team went through in the offseason a first place finish is quite an accomplishment. Attaboys all round.

[jerrym]

Wilder proved he is a dual threat tonight that finally gives the Argos a balanced attack that greatly increases the chances that Toronto could win the Grey Cup.

[ArgoZ]

Great game. Ricky Ray with another wonderful season. If we somehow win the Cup, I would claim he's the greatest Argonauts QB of all time.

[doubleblue]

Great game for the Argos. I had been confidence the Argos would win, but a little surprised how easy it looked. Football is such a mental game beside the physical. I see no reason for Ricky Ray to retire, unless he wants to walk away on his own terms. Keep that current Line together with Wilder and Ricky is not getting pummeled every game.

[Argo]

Well, that was what we wanted. A very good showing and now two weeks to heal (Jackson?) and market this game. The team looks very well positioned. We've beaten Ottawa, come very close with Saskatchewan, and beaten both Winnipeg and Edmonton, should we and they get that far. Calgary? Looks beatable, right now. This year's Cup is up for grabs! Why not the Argos? Hopefully we can get a big, loud home crowd out to the Eastern Final!

Superb playing by the Argonauts. I agree with your statements.

"Martese Jackson being injured. I think this team needed the bye week so that players like Jackson and Ball can get rested up and healed for the East Final."

I also thought that the Argos' chances to play in, and win, the Grey Cup improved significantly by earning the bye into the East Division Final.

[1971GreyCup]

Had a long drive on Friday and listened to the classic Steely Dan song "Rikki don't lose that number" and couldn't help but think of Jim Popp and the upcoming off season negotiations with Ricky Ray. With Tom Brady playing at top of form at 40, and Ricky's form last nupight, it seems he's got years of fuel left in his tank. Given a strong O-line and James Wilder's running/receiving out of the backfield, Ricky could extend his career here in Toronto by years.

https://youtu.be/eDWeGLt-2WE

[AngeloV]

Looking good, so far...but I fear our red zone troubles are going to come back to haunt us in the next few weeks...

I've said all year too much is being made of the red zone issues. Argos offence has long drives, keeps the D off the field, and still gets points. I'll take 3 of those over a TD and 2 times going 2 and out any day of the week.

As for the game itself, it was a dominating performance. People can say BC mailed it in, but if that was the case, why didn't they mail it in last week? Anyone that follows me on twitter knows that I was happy that Ottawa beat Hamilton last week, because I didn't want the Argos to back in to first place, and more importantly not have to go 4 weeks between meaningful games.

James Wilder is beyond the shadow of a doubt the league's 2nd half MOP, averaging more than 200 yards from scrimmage in his 6 starts over that time. Argos finish the season winning 5 of last 7, with only 2 losses coming on last second plays in which Wilder was injured in the first one and completely sat out the 2nd one. At this time, Argos are as good as any team in the league. And to think, their best player on D, Marcus Ball missed the last 6 games.

So happy for Ricky Ray. As classy a person as there ever has been, that a few love to shit on. Some of which have been conspicuous by their absence the last few weeks.

I personally can't wait for the 19th.

[timlb01]

So happy watching the game last night. There are so many players on this team to love now. This season has exceeded my expectations by millions of miles. I cannot believe the DB's and corners that Popp has been able to put together throughout the season along with the D line and linebackers. I could not have dreamed of this. Wilder has really rounded out the offence. He has made a massive difference and the O line coaching change has made a massive difference. Three concerns going into the playoffs; 1) red zone production, 2) Jackson if healthy fumbling and 3) tackling on special teams at times.

I don't think anyone could have predicted this. BTW did you guys see Marcus Ball in the dressing room after the game!!! What a great guy and great leader. So glad it looks like he will be back.

[Bleeds Double Blue]

Sunday morning and time for sober reflection. It was a dominant performance against a team that clearly wanted no part of it. I agree with you timlb01 that the O-line coaching change along with the emergence of James Wilder has made a huge difference to this offense. The D has been stellar all season long. The one sad note, and there always seems to be one is that this tremendous start to finish beat down came at 1 in the morning for you guys. I wonder how many potential ticket buyers stayed up to see it?

[Jon Gonzo]

Congrats and cheers to all Argo fans!

Last night was a big win for all of us hard bitten Argo fans.

Following the late regime change, I told myself that an 8 win season would have to be considered a great success. Marc Trestman has surpassed my expectations of him and I too am buying what he is selling. He is even better than I imagined. You can see it in the players, and you hear Trestman's words echo on-camera or in the sound bites.

The last time we found success, we had a team that had bought in and played hard for each other. They played like a band of brothers. Players like Kackert, Durie, Foley, Ball, Chad Owens, Swayze, Belli, Van Zeyl.

This team is buying what Trestman is selling and they are because he is the consummate pro (who teaches team first) who is a part time professor, physiologist, father figure, good citizen, good family man and an adaptive and proficient football coach.

I believe this team will play to the end and compete for a Grey Cup.

It is amazing what a running game has done for the Offensive Line and in turn for Ricky Ray's health. We must always strive for a dominant, game changer who plays for the team.

Nearly every time the Argos have had a game changer in the backfield, the O-Line and the Quarterback find success through players like Mike Clemons, Robert Drummond, Mike Jenkins, Chad Kackert, Gil Fenerty, Cedric Minter and Bill Symons

With Trestman, I believe that Jim Popp can keep feeding him the type of football players that will keep this program winning on the field and building in the community.

For the first time in several years, we finally have a big play Defense that can win a game on their own accord. This team can win in any one of the 3 phases, as is called for.

Enjoy your weekend, and congrats to all.

[Joe Barnes]

Congrats and cheers to all Argo fans!

Last night was a big win for all of us hard bitten Argo fans.

Following the late regime change, I told myself that an 8 win season would have to be considered a great success. Marc Trestman has surpassed my expectations of him and I too am buying what he is selling. He is even better than I imagined. You can see it in the players, and you hear Trestman's words echo on-camera or in the sound bites.

The last time we found success, we had a team that had bought in and played hard for each other. They played like a band of brothers. Players like Kackert, Durie, Foley, Ball, Chad Owens, Swayze, Belli, Van Zeyl.

This team is buying what Trestman is selling and they are because he is the consummate pro (who teaches team first) who is a part time professor, physiologist, father figure, good citizen, good family man and an adaptive and proficient football coach.

I believe this team will play to the end and compete for a Grey Cup.

It is amazing what a running game has done for the Offensive Line and in turn for Ricky Ray's health. We must always strive for a dominant, game changer who plays for the team.

Nearly every time the Argos have had a game changer in the backfield, the O-Line and the Quarterback find success through players like Mike Clemons, Robert Drummond, Mike Jenkins, Chad Kackert, Gil Fenerty, Cedric Minter and Bill Symons

With Trestman, I believe that Jim Popp can keep feeding him the type of football players that will keep this program winning on the field and building in the community.

For the first time in several years, we finally have a big play Defense that can win a game on their own accord. This team can win in any one of the 3 phases, as is called for.

Enjoy your weekend, and congrats to all.

Hear, Hear! Well said...

[ArgoGabe22]

James Wilder is beyond the shadow of a doubt the league's 2nd half MOP, averaging more than 200 yards from scrimmage in his 6 starts over that time. Argos finish the season winning 5 of last 7, with only 2 losses coming on last second plays in which Wilder was injured in the first one and completely sat out the 2nd one. At this time, Argos are as good as any team in the league. And to think, their best player on D, Marcus Ball missed the last 6 games.


Everyone talks about Andrew Harris but if Wilder had started the entire season, and stayed healthy, how close would he be to a 1000 & 1000 season as a RB?

[Argo57]

I've said all year too much is being made of the red zone issues. Argos offence has long drives, keeps the D off the field, and still gets points. I'll take 3 of those over a TD and 2 times going 2 and out any day of the week.

As for the game itself, it was a dominating performance. People can say BC mailed it in, but if that was the case, why didn't they mail it in last week? Anyone that follows me on twitter knows that I was happy that Ottawa beat Hamilton last week, because I didn't want the Argos to back in to first place, and more importantly not have to go 4 weeks between meaningful games.

James Wilder is beyond the shadow of a doubt the league's 2nd half MOP, averaging more than 200 yards from scrimmage in his 6 starts over that time. Argos finish the season winning 5 of last 7, with only 2 losses coming on last second plays in which Wilder was injured in the first one and completely sat out the 2nd one. At this time, Argos are as good as any team in the league. And to think, their best player on D, Marcus Ball missed the last 6 games.

So happy for Ricky Ray. As classy a person as there ever has been, that a few love to shit on. Some of which have been conspicuous by their absence the last few weeks.

I personally can't wait for the 19th.

Agree on all points Angelo, I was highly critical of the previous Argo regimes handling of the QB situation and wondered about Ray’s durability but gladly have been proven wrong in 2017.
Trestman’s commitment to Ray from the moment he arrived has paid dividends not only on the field but I suspect off the field as well.
The players respect Trestman and his staff and it shows on the field, they are all in this together and I couldn’t be happier to witness this evolution as a fan!
It goes without saying we all want the Argos in the Grey Cup this season vying for their 17th World Championship but win or lose Popp, Trestman and each player should be commended for their efforts this season!!
Go Argos!!!!!

[Wobbler]

I noticed Jordan and Bass a couple of times, but I couldn't tell under what circumstances they were coming in. Did anyone figure out how we were using them?

[paulwoods13]

This team is shaping up as a strong contender to win the Grey Cup. It's not just because they seem to be getting healthy and rounding into form in all three phases at the right time of year. They also seem to have championship-calibre chemistry and love for one another. The 2004 and 2012 teams also had that, and in both years I had a very strong sense of destiny heading into the playoffs. (Actually, in 2004 I felt it starting around mid-season.)

These guys are going to be a real handful for whichever team emerges next week. The best outcome of the semi from a biz standpoint is likely Sask since they have lots of fans in the area, but I honestly don't care who we play -- we're going to beat whomever we face on the 19th. I see a Ricky Ray-Mike Reilly showdown for both MOP and the Grey Cup.

[paulwoods13]

I noticed Jordan and Bass a couple of times, but I couldn't tell under what circumstances they were coming in. Did anyone figure out how we were using them?

Looked to me as if Bass was in on second-and-long situations, but hard to tell on TV. He played a fair number of snaps. I am assume Jordan sits if Ball suits up, with Bass and Plummer both dressed as well.

[paulwoods13]

I've said all year too much is being made of the red zone issues. Argos offence has long drives, keeps the D off the field, and still gets points. I'll take 3 of those over a TD and 2 times going 2 and out any day of the week.


Very good point, AV. Possession matters, and points are points. We needed that Posey TD at the end of the half to feel comfortable but bottom line is we rolled up 500 yards of offence and 40 points so the offence was successful all night, despite a few misfires in the red zone.


James Wilder is beyond the shadow of a doubt the league's 2nd half MOP, averaging more than 200 yards from scrimmage in his 6 starts over that time. Argos finish the season winning 5 of last 7, with only 2 losses coming on last second plays in which Wilder was injured in the first one and completely sat out the 2nd one.

Wilder looks close to unstoppable right now, like Kackert in 2012 except bigger, faster and stronger. The o-line has been mowing people down in the run game and on screen passes.

[argotom]

The more we see of Wilder and the more he dominates each game, the more he reminds me of Robert Drummond.

[timlb01]

The more we see of Wilder and the more he dominates each game, the more he reminds me of Robert Drummond.

I agree. I thought that from the beginning of the season glad he is exceeding early season expectations.

[OV Argo]

Seems like the winds have whipped up a perfect storm type season for the Argo sails.

Jimmy P & Trestman as vet skippers to take the helm; great new deck hands additions - like Butler, Wynn, Wilder; gifted very good vet players in Woods & SJ Green (thanks Mavis); the return of stalwarts like Marcus Ball and Cleon Laing; old Ricky Ray looking like Ricky Ray of old - sharp, smart leader at QB with a very good receiving corps to throw to. All 3 phases of the game seem to be sailing smoothly now, at the right time, into the play-off seas.

And - they get to host the East final and face either: Ottawa - sub. 500 team this year, and missing some key starters with injury, but still defending GC Champs - i guess they have that going for them, OR the Riders - 2 games above .500 in and up & down season, and have some real star talent, but very iffy at QB compared to Ricky Ray. And - neither of these teams have anything close to a powerful, dominant pass rush D-line - which might be the main thing to give Ray trouble in a big game now.


2017 - onwards to Ottawa (take Lake Ontario to Kingston, turn left, and then sail up the Rideau Canal system, and dock right at Lansdowne Park ;o).

PULL TOGETHER !!!

[Argo57]

Seems like the winds have whipped up a perfect storm type season for the Argo sails.

Jimmy P & Trestman as vet skippers to take the helm; great new deck hands additions - like Butler, Wynn, Wilder; gifted very good vet players in Woods & SJ Green (thanks Mavis); the return of stalwarts like Marcus Ball and Cleon Laing; old Ricky Ray looking like Ricky Ray of old - sharp, smart leader at QB with a very good receiving corps to throw to. All 3 phases of the game seem to be sailing smoothly now, at the right time, into the play-off seas.

And - they get to host the East final and face either: Ottawa - sub. 500 team this year, and missing some key starters with injury, but still defending GC Champs - i guess they have that going for them, OR the Riders - 2 games above .500 in and up & down season, and have some real star talent, but very iffy at QB compared to Ricky Ray. And - neither of these teams have anything close to a powerful, dominant pass rush D-line - which might be the main thing to give Ray trouble in a big game now.


2017 - onwards to Ottawa (take Lake Ontario to Kingston, turn left, and then sail up the Rideau Canal system, and dock right at Lansdowne Park ;o).

PULL TOGETHER !!!

Sounds like a good plan OV!

[doubleblue]

The more we see of Wilder and the more he dominates each game, the more he reminds me of Robert Drummond.

I don't remember Robert Drummond being as physical as James Jr. To me he more of a chip off the old block. He is suppose to be still under contract for 2018, if Popp doesn't let him go early. I'm sure the NFL will come calling again.

[Argo]

Wilder looks close to unstoppable right now, like Kackert in 2012 except bigger, faster and stronger.

So the premise of The Six Million Dollar Man was correct. Nice to see those screen passes, BTW.

[Argo]

I don't remember Robert Drummond being as physical as James Jr. To me he more of a chip off the old block. He is suppose to be still under contract for 2018, if Popp doesn't let him go early. I'm sure the NFL will come calling again.

I wonder how it'd play out if the CFL did not allow GMs to let players under contract leave early? Most players would still sign in the CFL anyway (playing vs not-playing, in all likelihood), and could still leave after year two.

[paulwoods13]

I don't remember Robert Drummond being as physical as James Jr. To me he more of a chip off the old block. He is suppose to be still under contract for 2018, if Popp doesn't let him go early. I'm sure the NFL will come calling again.

It's hard to know whether that will happen. Certainly he's dominating this league, and for better or worse the Argos get more NFL attention than other teams. But he was on NFL practice rosters for two seasons, and was a FA who could have been signed by any NFL team after Buf cut him last year. I'd say it's about 50/50 that he gets some interest from the NFL. If I were Popp, I wouldn't stand in his way if he has a good offer, but would first ask him how many undrafted FAs have made the NFL at RB four years out of college. And inform him how the greatest rusher the CFL has ever seen, Mike Pringle, barely got a sniff from the Broncos at the peak of his abilities.

[AngeloV]

It's hard to know whether that will happen. Certainly he's dominating this league, and for better or worse the Argos get more NFL attention than other teams. But he was on NFL practice rosters for two seasons, and was a FA who could have been signed by any NFL team after Buf cut him last year. I'd say it's about 50/50 that he gets some interest from the NFL. If I were Popp, I wouldn't stand in his way if he has a good offer, but would first ask him how many undrafted FAs have made the NFL at RB four years out of college. And inform him how the greatest rusher the CFL has ever seen, Mike Pringle, barely got a sniff from the Broncos at the peak of his abilities.

Obviously I hope he stays here, but I if he were to go, I hope he has a lot of success.

[OV Argo]

I don't remember Robert Drummond being as physical as James Jr. To me he more of a chip off the old block. He is suppose to be still under contract for 2018, if Popp doesn't let him go early. I'm sure the NFL will come calling again.


Wilder might (but I doubt it) get an NFL shot again - based on his famous NFL name and coming from a top notch Div I program; but not on what he's done in the CFL - NFL scouts don't give a rat's @$$ about CFL RBs.

As far as comparison to Drummond - very similar in that they are big and tall tailbacks who run sort of more upright; both have (had) great speed for big backs, and some power that goes with their size; but neither is an overly physical runner to me - not pure power runners and not like they go looking to smash mouth run over defenders, but they can when they have to; but patient backs who can hit a hole with power & speed and both break-away threats. Wilder's just over 7 yards/carry average this season is off the charts outstanding; if he could get close to that again in a full CFL season where he gets well over a thousand yards or leads the league in rushing he might go down as an all-time great CFL RB talent (and up there with the likes of Symons, McQuay, Fenerty, Jenkins as an all-time great Argo tailback talent). We shall see - love to see a full season ... or 3 or more, in an Argo uniform, out of this guy !

[Jon Gonzo]

I have no doubt that Wilder will get some sniffs. RB is a different position though, and at 25, he may be more interested in starting as opposed to the potential of another position on a practice roster? I could see one more crack at that. Take the $400,000 a year, see how it pans out, and then return at 27-28.

Most NFL Teams draft RB's high and play them soon thereafter. The guys with the newspaper clippings.

It has to be a dream for him though.

The comparison to Robert Drummond is obvious. Both running styles mixed grace with power. Both were big men for the position, and both ran with an upright running style. Another similarity is that there was /is very little motion in the run, and had a look of smoothness -- until contact.

And that's the violent part (;

One difference is that one was drafted in the 3rd Round of the NFL Draft, and played 36 games with 3 TD's. The other (Wilder) went undrafted and never dressed for a regular season game. So Drummond had a more impressive resume coming in.

Of course, it goes without saying, that Wilder has a long way to go to match Drummond. Like, 4 Grey Cups. But he shows much promise, and he'll have to stay healthy and stay put.

[argolio]

Boy we got lucky on that bad pass completion to Green.How is it bad when a completion gets you a first down?


Looks like a balanced group of playoff teams, especially if the Stamps have fallen back. We could see some great games over the next three weeks.

Can't wait for the 19th.

[argotom]

How is it bad when a completion gets you a first down?


Looks like a balanced group of playoff teams, especially if the Stamps have fallen back. We could see some great games over the next three weeks.

Can't wait for the 19th.


You didn't see it?
It was a lame duck pass, across the field and how the DB did not intercept I'll never know.
Otherwise if Ray had to do it over again, I would think he would not have even tried to complete as the DB was spying on our receiver.
He had a better chance to catch it than Green did who was likely surprised it landed in his hands.

[doubleblue]

Wilder might (but I doubt it) get an NFL shot again - based on his famous NFL name and coming from a top notch Div I program; but not on what he's done in the CFL - NFL scouts don't give a rat's @$$ about CFL RBs.

As far as comparison to Drummond - very similar in that they are big and tall tailbacks who run sort of more upright; both have (had) great speed for big backs, and some power that goes with their size; but neither is an overly physical runner to me - not pure power runners and not like they go looking to smash mouth run over defenders, but they can when they have to; but patient backs who can hit a hole with power & speed and both break-away threats. Wilder's just over 7 yards/carry average this season is off the charts outstanding; if he could get close to that again in a full CFL season where he gets well over a thousand yards or leads the league in rushing he might go down as an all-time great CFL RB talent (and up there with the likes of Symons, McQuay, Fenerty, Jenkins as an all-time great Argo tailback talent). We shall see - love to see a full season ... or 3 or more, in an Argo uniform, out of this guy !

I don't know about the NFL not wanting to sign CFL RB's. The Argo one's you mentioned except for Symons (maybe he was better than most of the others) plus Cedric Minter all went down south and were never any good afterwards. But just about any CFL RB that has a great year goes down for a shot at the big money. Can't blame them. Messam, Charles Roberts, Mike Pringle and the back out in Regina come to mind. But there have been others. Jon Cornish is one of the few good ones that stayed put.

So I think Wilder Jr. will give it another shot even just to please his Dad. A half million US for even a backup RB and special teams position a year would probably take him 4 years or more in the CFL to equal it.

[Antwon]

OK I was glad to see JB and SM get let go. And very happy Popp and Trestman were brought on.
With the late hiring I expected the team to get close to 500 and be behind Ott and Ham in the standings.
But 9-9 and first place exceedes expectations!! More importantly is how well the team has come together.
I had a lot of faith in Trestman and little faith in Ray. But eat my words Ray had an outstanding season.
And the pass heavy offense on Trestman was altered as he seen Ray taking a beating game after game. Leaning more on the run combinded with Wilder busting out gives us a balanced attack and Ray taking fewer hits.


So now on to the Final!!

[timlb01]

OK I was glad to see JB and SM get let go. And very happy Popp and Trestman were brought on.
With the late hiring I expected the team to get close to 500 and be behind Ott and Ham in the standings.
But 9-9 and first place exceedes expectations!! More importantly is how well the team has come together.
I had a lot of faith in Trestman and little faith in Ray. But eat my words Ray had an outstanding season.
And the pass heavy offense on Trestman was altered as he seen Ray taking a beating game after game. Leaning more on the run combinded with Wilder busting out gives us a balanced attack and Ray taking fewer hits.


So now on to the Final!!

You could not have asked for a better pair. Popp has proven in Montreal that he can win long term and be consistent. Trestman proved that he can win consistently as well when he was in Montreal. I know everywhere Don Matthews coached it was going to be pretty hard for anyone to beat him. I feel the same now with Trestman. I am still amazed that these two have been able to do what they have done so far this year. I still think no matter what the stats say Matthews was the greatest coach ever. The 4 years he coached in Toronto were some of the greatest especially the two with Flutie. I think we are again in an era where this could be the next best thing to 1996 and 1997. Amazing job by these guys win or lose on the 19th. I am over the moon.

[AngeloV]

You didn't see it?
It was a lame duck pass, across the field and how the DB did not intercept I'll never know.
Otherwise if Ray had to do it over again, I would think he would not have even tried to complete as the DB was spying on our receiver.
He had a better chance to catch it than Green did who was likely surprised it landed in his hands.

any ball that is out of reach of the DB, whether by an inch or a yard is a good pass if it gets to the receiver. Ray is 100% aware of his arm strength, and if he wasn't confident the DB was too far away to make a play, he wouldn't have thrown the ball. Enough with the cliche comment of it being a lame duck.

[Bleeds Double Blue]

I admit that I was not a big fan of the Jim Popp hiring. Based on what the Als looked like the last couple of years it seemed to me as though he was hired as the last man available. My bad. Considering what he has accomplished with virtually no offseason to work with and looking at the Als situation with Kavis Reed it’s apparent that ownership meddling had a lot to do with Montreal’s record of late. If I had my druthers (what the hell is a druther?) I would pick Jim Popp over Reed every time. Thank you Montreal.

I would suggest that should the Argonauts stun the world and win the Grey Cup Bob Wetenhall should get a ring for his contributions to the cause.

[timlb01]

I admit that I was not a big fan of the Jim Popp hiring. Based on what the Als looked like the last couple of years it seemed to me as though he was hired as the last man available. My bad. Considering what he has accomplished with virtually no offseason to work with and looking at the Als situation with Kavis Reed it’s apparent that ownership meddling had a lot to do with Montreal’s record of late. If I had my druthers (what the hell is a druther?) I would pick Jim Popp over Reed every time. Thank you Montreal.

I would suggest that should the Argonauts stun the world and win the Grey Cup Bob Wetenhall should get a ring for his contributions to the cause.

A+

[AngeloV]

I admit that I was not a big fan of the Jim Popp hiring. Based on what the Als looked like the last couple of years it seemed to me as though he was hired as the last man available. My bad. Considering what he has accomplished with virtually no offseason to work with and looking at the Als situation with Kavis Reed it’s apparent that ownership meddling had a lot to do with Montreal’s record of late. If I had my druthers (what the hell is a druther?) I would pick Jim Popp over Reed every time. Thank you Montreal.

I would suggest that should the Argonauts stun the world and win the Grey Cup Bob Wetenhall should get a ring for his contributions to the cause.

I still think the problem in Montreal is due to meddling owners. I'm convinced they forced Popp to make all the impatient coaching changes that he did. Any coach is going to have a tough time there, because rumour has it the owners will force any coach to keep AC on the staff. Nothing against him, but philosophically, that is not the way a chain of command should work. GM chooses coach. Coach chooses coaching staff.

[Will]

I still think the problem in Montreal is due to meddling owners. I'm convinced they forced Popp to make all the impatient coaching changes that he did. Any coach is going to have a tough time there, because rumour has it the owners will force any coach to keep AC on the staff. Nothing against him, but philosophically, that is not the way a chain of command should work. GM chooses coach. Coach chooses coaching staff.

I agree with you on this point. It seems that the Alouettes may be similar to the Colts on that point. How much did Calvillo mask any dysfunction with ownership when he was playing similar to Manning masking any dysfunction with the Irsays.

[R.J]

I still think the problem in Montreal is due to meddling owners. I'm convinced they forced Popp to make all the impatient coaching changes that he did. Any coach is going to have a tough time there, because rumour has it the owners will force any coach to keep AC on the staff. Nothing against him, but philosophically, that is not the way a chain of command should work. GM chooses coach. Coach chooses coaching staff.
Agreed. I also think AC maybe needs to take a seat in terms of coaching, looks lost on the sidelines, and clearly nowhere near ready to be the play caller/OC. An ambassador role IMO is better suited for Calvillo right now.

[jerrym]

Living in Vancouver, I got to see Wilder at BC Place for the first time rather than on a broadcast. As many of you have already seen at BMO, he's even more impressive under these circumstances where you can see what he is doing throughout every play.

[AngeloV]

Living in Vancouver, I got to see Wilder at BC Place for the first time rather than on a broadcast. As many of you have already seen at BMO, he's even more impressive under these circumstances where you can see what he is doing throughout every play.

It's definitely been a pleasure to watch him do what he does.

[gilthethrill]

It's definitely been a pleasure to watch him do what he does.

Was Cory Boyd just as dominant in 2010 and 2011 as Wilder Jr is now?

[ArgoGabe22]

Was Cory Boyd just as dominant in 2010 and 2011 as Wilder Jr is now?

Wilder is much better IMO

[OV Argo]

Wilder is much better IMO

Boyd was good; i think Wilder is better too (faster for sure); but i need to see more to be sure - a full season out of Wilder playing like he has in 10 games or so this year. Sorry, but he ain't exactly Leon McQuay to me yet ;o)

[AngeloV]

Was Cory Boyd just as dominant in 2010 and 2011 as Wilder Jr is now?

I liked Boyd a lot, but no chance was he the game changer that Wilder has been. Having said that, he also didn't have Ricky Ray at QB those years.

[Wobbler]

... a full season out of Wilder playing like he has in 10 games or so this year.
Just six games, really. Abruptly, beginning in week 13, he has been ridiculously good. In his three previous starts in June and July he was terrible-to-decent, I'd say. Six games is a limited data set to be sure, and only two of those performances were against good teams (Edmonton was a pretty average team in mid-September)... but I've seen enough to get excited. If he stays in our league, the only reason he could *never* be the next X-Ray is that the nickname wouldn't make any sense. ;)

[doubleblue]

I liked Boyd a lot, but no chance was he the game changer that Wilder has been. Having said that, he also didn't have Ricky Ray at QB those years.

I don't remember Boyd fighting through tackles like Junior does and he wasn't much of a passer blocker. Maybe he didn't like the QB of the time. He wouldn't be alone if that was the case.

[Jon Gonzo]

I don't remember Boyd fighting through tackles like Junior does and he wasn't much of a passer blocker. Maybe he didn't like the QB of the time. He wouldn't be alone if that was the case.

I do. I remember him moving piles of tacklers for many extra yards. I also recall him being very emotional and as it turns out, a bit of a head case. But he was a good one, and he played his heart out, hurt. Except, he was ultimately a problem for Jim Barker. I remember how surprised the CFL world was when he was let go. As Angelo pointed out, he didn't play with Ricky Ray. He had Cleo Lemon, so that is a thing to consider. JWJ has what it takes to be better, but he hasn't surpassed him yet. Wilder is smoother, with better hands and without a doubt...is faster and in way better shape. Boyd was kind of out of shape, but was exceptionally physical. Downhill where as JWJ is upright. (;

[Will]

His first two years with the Argos were with Cleo Lemon/Steven Jyles and Dalton Bell as QB. Jim Barker was the coach. Boyd was not cut until Ricky Ray had been acquired and Scott Milanovich hired. I forget that Chad Kackert was actually with the Argos in 2011 too.

[gilthethrill]

I do. I remember him moving piles of tacklers for many extra yards. I also recall him being very emotional and as it turns out, a bit of a head case. But he was a good one, and he played his heart out, hurt. Except, he was ultimately a problem for Jim Barker. I remember how surprised the CFL world was when he was let go. As Angelo pointed out, he didn't play with Ricky Ray. He had Cleo Lemon, so that is a thing to consider. JWJ has what it takes to be better, but he hasn't surpassed him yet. Wilder is smoother, with better hands and without a doubt...is faster and in way better shape. Boyd was kind of out of shape, but was exceptionally physical. Downhill where as JWJ is upright. (;

The reason Boyd was cut was because he was either unable or unwilling to pass protect. He was wiffing on blocking assignments and getting Ray killed.

[Jon Gonzo]

The reason Boyd was cut was because he was either unable or unwilling to pass protect. He was wiffing on blocking assignments and getting Ray killed.

Ah yes, I'd forgotten that he'd played with Ricky. How many games, I don't recall? I think the outrage over Boyd getting cut was quickly assuaged by our love for one Chad Kackert, who was a practice roster guy.

[R.J]

Boyd didn't fight through tackles ?
I really think people are over looking how good Boyd was for us, and let's be honest he was cut because of his blocking ability/drive. He's not the legend that Kackert is around here though for some reason............ :eyeroll:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiI3rB_ur3w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoDdzFf4Oz8

[Scooter McCray]

Boyd was a great RB for the Argos. He and Chad Owens were the only thing we had going in 2010 and 2011 offensively. I was really pissed when they cut him because the only thing I remembered about Kackert was a 2 fumble performance in 2011 in a game in Montreal. Having said that I became a huge Kackert fan and the change in the team in 2012 when he took over was unmistakable. If Kackert doesn't go down prior to the 2013 EF the Argos win back to back Grey Cups.

[R.J]

And the Legend of Kackert continues to grow.