Jim Barker and Canadian QBs

[jerrym]

While I have mixed feelings about Jim Barker's time with the Argos, I appreciate his willingness to put the issue of Canadian QBs in the CFL back on the table in a meaningful way. When he kept Queens QB Danny Brannagan around through the 2010 season on the PR and then played him in the final game of the year, there was a lot skepticism in the media about the move. After all, a Canadian QB had not played in a regular season game since Guilio Caravatta in 1997. Barker argued that Canadian QBs should be counted as Canadians in the non-import ratio rather than as one of three QBs in order to help their professional development.

The low point for Canadian quarterbacks occurred when Jamie Bone won an Ontario Human Rights Tribunal case.



University of Western Ontario quarterback Jamie Bone attended Tiger-Cats training camp but was cut. He took the Tiger-Cats to the Ontario Human Rights Tribunal, alleging that he was never given a fair chance to compete for a quarterback position because he was Canadian.

During the proceedings, the Tiger Cats admitted that they had made up their mind on who the starters would be.
Bone won his case, and the tribunal awarded him $10,000.
The Tiger-Cats were awarded to give him a 14 day tryout in 1980.


http://forums.cfl.ca/cfl-talk/1/canadian-qb-discrimination-case-vs-ticats-1979/91941/




While some critics have dismissed Danny Brannagan's presence with the Toronto Argonauts this season as token at best — he only threw four passes — the significance of his year goes far beyond his statistics. Brannagan was the first Canadian quarterback to throw a pass in a regular-season game in 14 years.
"Hopefully, this becomes more of the norm," said Brannagan, who went to Queen's University in Kingston, Ont., and grew up in Burlington, Ont.
"Just the fact that I got into one game and stuck it out this year [should be] encouraging for young guys growing up."
Argo's coach Jim Barker – an American – has championed the importance of developing young Canadian quarterbacks since his days in the Calgary Stampeders front office.
"I had a football school in Calgary," Barker said. "Young kids, who were great athletes wanted to be quarterbacks. But they had nobody to look up to."
Barker has urged the CFL to change its rule regarding the nationalities of quarterbacks. Right now, all teams must have at least 20 non-imports (Canadians) on their rosters, but quarterbacks don't count towards the quota.
"Just let them be considered a Canadian," Barker pleaded.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/football/cfl-ready-for-more-canadian-qbs-1.903337


Barker's raising of this issue has helped keep the pressure up to develop a Canadian QB.
The CFL internship program has helped in developing Canadian university QBs in recent years.
With Brandon Bridge appearing to be on the verge of becoming a starter and Andrew Buckley initially looking good in relief of Mitchell, before having some problems completing passes in terrible playing conditions at the end of the season, there is promise for the future of Canadian QBs.

[rdavies]

The low point for Canadian quarterbacks occurred when Jamie Bone won an Ontario Human Rights Tribunal case.There was a lower point before that, the Ottawa Rough Riders treatment of Bill Robinson. They rolled out the red carpet for his rookie competition while he got to stay in the college dorm.

Quarterback controversy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_Ottawa_Rough_Riders_season)

Jerry Keeling was projected as the starting quarterback for the Rough Riders while Condredge Holloway was expected to be the quarterback of the future. Holloway was selected in the 12th round of the 1975 NFL Draft by New England Patriots but they were projecting him only as a wide receiver or defensive back.

General Manager Frank Clair made five trips to try to get Holloway signed. Clair pursued another well known college quarterback, Notre Dame Fighting Irish quarterback Tom Clements. Clements had just been dropped from the Winnipeg Blue Bombers negotiation list and following a substantial bonus offer, signed with Ottawa. After the acquisition of Clements, Holloway soon signed with the club.

Bill Robinson, a Canadian quarterback who led schools to appearances in the 1973 and 1974 Vanier Cup was trying to earn a spot on the roster as a quarterback.

Robinson competed for the spot against Notre Dame quarterback Tom Clements and Tennessee quarterback Condredge Holloway. Before training camp, Robinson was treated poorly by the organization as his $13,000 contract was mailed to him. The contract stated that there was no signing bonus and no negotiation.

Tony Gabriel stated that Robinson was the best passer in camp. Even Tom Clements stated that Robinson threw better than him. In an intra squad game, Robinson completed 10 of 13 passes. In his first preseason game, Robinson completed 3 of 6 passes, included a 48 yard pass to Tony Gabriel.

In the three remaining preseason games, Robinson only had 8 minutes of playing time. CFLPA president George Reed was furious at the Rough Riders organization. Fans were highly critical of the poor treatment that Robinson received. The problem was that the Rough Riders guaranteed the contracts of Clements and Holloway. Robinson would be placed on the 21-day injury list with tonsillitis although his tonsils had been removed years earlier. He would make the team as a defensive back and special teams player. Surprisingly, Holloway and Clements developed so quickly that Brancato decided to trade Keeling to the Hamilton Tiger-Cats prior to the season-opener.

...

Another low point was the case of Kyle Quinlan (he of the great McMaster/Laval Vanier Cup thriller (http://www.sportsnet.ca/more/vanier-cup/)) Probably the greatest Canadian QB prospect in decades, he left Montreal because he didn't feel he would be given a fair chance, ironically this may have been one of the few times where the GM (Popp) might have given him that chance.

Ron Lancaster wrote an article, it's out there somewhere on why GMs don't want Canadian QBs. I know it's out there because I posted the full article when I found it. That's why I post full articles so that when the link disappears you can still access the info. I'll try and find it.

They have been saying Bridge was the first Canadian since Russ Jackson to throw a playoff TD. Did Gerry Dattilio never get in a playoff game?

[ArgoRavi]

Gerry Dattilio did start two playoff games at QB for Montreal in 1980 and one for Calgary in 1982. I don't believe that he had a TD pass for the Stamps but I do find it hard to believe that he didn't at least throw one for the Als in 1980. I will have to do a little research on that.

EDIT: Just looked up the Montreal Gazette for November 1980 and Dattilio did not throw a TD pass in either playoff game that year. Keith Baker dropped a perfectly thrown Dattilio pass in the East Final at the Hamilton goal-line but, sadly, Dattilio did not register a playoff TD pass that year or in 1982 when the Stamps only managed three points in a loss in Winnipeg. I don't believe that he played much QB in the playoffs after that. His only other chances would have been in 1984 and 1985 but I believe that Joe Barnes saw the bulk of the action for the Montreal Concordes during the 1985 post-season while Turner Gill was the starting QB in 1984.

[jerrym]

Gerry Dattilio did start two playoff games at QB for Montreal in 1980 and one for Calgary in 1982. I don't believe that he had a TD pass for the Stamps but I do find it hard to believe that he didn't at least throw one for the Als in 1980. I will have to do a little research on that.

EDIT: Just looked up the Montreal Gazette for November 1980 and Dattilio did not throw a TD pass in either playoff game that year. Keith Baker dropped a perfectly thrown Dattilio pass in the East Final at the Hamilton goal-line but, sadly, Dattilio did not register a playoff TD pass that year or in 1982 when the Stamps only managed three points in a loss in Winnipeg. I don't believe that he played much QB in the playoffs after that. His only other chances would have been in 1984 and 1985 but I believe that Joe Barnes saw the bulk of the action for the Montreal Concordes during the 1985 post-season while Turner Gill was the starting QB in 1984.

Gerry Datillio was an Eastern All-Star in 1980, as well as being the Outstanding Canadian and the runner-up for Most Outstanding Player. Naturally, the next year, the Alouettes signed Vince Ferragamo, who had led the Los Angeles Rams to the Super Bowl the same year Datillio was runner-up for Outstanding Player. Ferragamo was anointed the starter but struggled throughout the season, and was replaced as starter towards the end of the year by Datillio. By the way, Datillio was originally signed by the Argos in 1975, and got into one game but had no statistics. The next year the Argos released him.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerry_Dattilio

[jerrym]

I forgot to mention that Jamie Bone, who I noted in post #1 was cut by the Tiger Cats without being given a chance and won a human rights tribunal award for that, was thought highly enough by the Dallas Cowboys that they signed him and brought him to training camp, although he didn't make the team.

[Ron]

There is nothing more ridiculous than a campaign to have a Canadian count as a Canadian in Canada. This has been a pox on the CFL for decades. Hopefully this off season they will finally stop this stupidity.


Ron Lancaster wrote an article, it's out there somewhere on why GMs don't want Canadian QBs. I know it's out there because I posted the full article when I found it. That's why I post full articles so that when the link disappears you can still access the info. I'll try and find it.

I remember that about 10 years back. His main point was to blame the media pressure that would fall upon coaches to be forced to play a Canadian QB. The idea was silly then and time has shown it's even moreso today.

Agreed on the links. Easy to find discussion on the topic but all the links for the original seem to be gone. Better to sacrifice a few clicks for someone else today than to lose stories to history because the original media could care less to keep it.

[gilthethrill]

I think Datillio started his career as a receiver....I believe he was a college QB at a small school in Colorado.

[jerrym]

There is nothing more ridiculous than a campaign to have a Canadian count as a Canadian in Canada. This has been a pox on the CFL for decades. Hopefully this off season they will finally stop this stupidity.



I remember that about 10 years back. His main point was to blame the media pressure that would fall upon coaches to be forced to play a Canadian QB. The idea was silly then and time has shown it's even moreso today.

Agreed on the links. Easy to find discussion on the topic but all the links for the original seem to be gone. Better to sacrifice a few clicks for someone else today than to lose stories to history because the original media could care less to keep it.


Hopefully, the building pressure, including Bridge's challenge to Ambrosie, will bring about a change in the rules.



CFL commissioner Randy Ambrosie plans to put the status of Canadian quarterbacks in the CFL before the league’s stakeholders this coming off-season.
But first he plans to discuss the issue with the league’s coaches and general managers and have an off-season visit with Brandon Bridge, the Mississauga, Ont., native who recently became the first Canadian quarterback to start and win a game in more than 30 years.

“I think we should take input from important sources and who better to start with than him?” said Ambrosie Friday. “My plan is to put this on the table this off-season because I think it’s an important issue we should be discussing.”
Earlier this week, Bridge, who is currently the backup to starter Kevin Glenn in Saskatchewan, invited Ambrosie to meet with him via a public post on Twitter to discuss the issues surrounding Canadian quarterbacks.
He then posted the next day that Ambrosie had responded to him and accepted the invitation.

http://www.tsn.ca/ambrosie-to-tackle-status-of-canadian-quarterbacks-1.891171

[jerrym]

There is a certain irony in Brandon Bridge, a Canadian Black quarterback, seeking a change in a CFL rule that treats Canadian quarterbacks differently than other Canadians at other positions.

[OV Argo]

I doubt things are going to change for real on this issue - even if Ambrosie gets the roster rule changed so that a Canadian QB would count against the ratio (hey, a neat-o excuse for GOBs to employ an import somewhere else). You can't force CFL GMs or personnel decision makers to sign or invite a Canadian QB for a TC look - the typical GOB is still going to believe they are automatically inferior to any American QB they could sign instead - and especially with CIS trained QBs.


Proof of a change of standard party-line mind-set would be in real evidence from a CFL TC - with a Canadian QB given a real chance to compete for a team in need at the position. Bridge was Div I US college ball trained and on some NFL radar with his rocket arm = CFL GMs know about these guys and want to sign them; Buckley was IMO more of an anomaly - he was playing in the Stamps backyard, and Dickenson got to know about him.

There are talented CIS QBs up for the signing or drafting just about every CFL season, yet they almost never get the call for a real shot - the cases of Bone, or Robinson or Chris Flynn from way in the past are one thing, but Quinlan was just a few years back, and there have been many other examples of outstanding CIS QBs getting ZERO CFL look from the past decade alone. Laval QB Hugo Richard (Vanier winner, strong arm with outstanding passing stats, big & good mobility) is up for this coming CFL draft. We shall see if he gets drafted or signed for TC by any CFL team; my guess would be no - and CFL GOBs would clearly continue to favor Matthew Shitz types or ex-NFL clipboard holders like Ryan Lindley when they look for TC QB depth.

We shall see ... some other good young Canadian QBs like Merchant (Western) or O'Connor (UBC) will be available to the CFL soon down the road too; this Rourke kid at Ohio might be a better bet with his Div I resume.

[OV Argo]

I think Datillio started his career as a receiver....I believe he was a college QB at a small school in Colorado.

Dattilio played some receiver & special teams before he got a shot to play QB with the Als; he was a star QB at Northern Colorado (and in their hall of fame).

[rdavies]

Agreed on the links. Easy to find discussion on the topic but all the links for the original seem to be gone. Better to sacrifice a few clicks for someone else today than to lose stories to history because the original media could care less to keep it.Not to belabour the point but this is the perfect case for why to include the full story. I'm not particularly worried about Sportsnet or the National Post missing a few clicks and even then by including the link I am still giving people the option of using the link. And if you do use the link you will benefit by seeing graphics/photos that go with the story and other links that provide background to the story so I don't think I am injuring anybody.

I can understand if it's someone's personal blog but I usually use sources from bigger media sources to give some sort of "legitimacy" to the story. Often times, and I'm not saying it is true in this case, the people who don't want the story posted in full are on the opposing side of the argument and they want that info not to be "seen" so readily

And it's not so much about a media outlet keeping the info, it's that they often update their websites and directories are changed and links die. The story is still on their server but unavailable to the public through the old link. Archive.org's Wayback Machine is great for remedying that but it doesn't always work and this is one of those times.

If people are worried about an article taking up so much physical space, it would help if people learned how to use the quote and edit functions so instead of quoting a whole article they quote only the sentence or small part they are referring to. Same with photos, how many times have you seen people just hit the quote button without editing and you see the same photo 5 times on the same page.

Back to the unjustly forgotten (except here) Gerry Dattilio.

[Shatto]

Perhaps an incentive, such as, a Canadian QB salary not counting against the salary cap, might be devised to encourage teams to give a Canadian QB a fair shot of making the team.

[doubleblue]

I like Brandon's suggestion. Let a Canadian QB like him count in the ratio if he plays. Teams would still have to have 7 other starters for a Canadian like Bridge to count for the ratio, just encase of an injury. But when Bridge was playing QB they would only need six others starting instead of seven. It would be a start and I believe we would soon start to see teams taking longer looks at the Canadian kids and try and develop them like they do at the other positions.