Victor Butler

[Will]

FYI, he's written a fairly scathing letter that 3-Down Nation published. More or less, the same situation as Wilder.

[mchesher03]

Well this isn’t going according to plan here sheesh…

Anyhow, at times like this I like to think about how much fun this past season was if nothing else J

[Skilz]

I swear I could be a savant.

These were my EXACT words in the James Wilder thread on Page 3


2) Precedent- If I am correct Victor Butler is in Year 1 of his deal, having played 3-4 seasons for the Dallas Cowboys previously. His sack and QB pressure statistics were off the charts the first 6 weeks of the season. Then he got injured.

Wonder if he revolted like Wilder - would Popp agree? Likely not.

[OV Argo]

Have to wonder if some of these American players are either gullible or have been fed B$/lies by agents or CFL GMs who recruited them ? They think they can just show up for a cup of coffee for one season and then are free to go back to the NFL?

Some CFL GMs - and the Americans 1st / preferred attitude of some GOBs - are to blame for this fiasco we are seeing with Wilder & Butler, IMO. They want to treat the CFL as some joke /farm system for the NFL? - then go ahead and keep signing these guys and letting them out of their contracts; hey - why not let them go mid-season if an NFL team has need? - call the CFL guy up from the minors - and tough $hite for the CFL team, the league and the fans. After all - why stand in the way of the player's well being? They shouldn't have to commit to the dinky little CFL.

Very disappointed in both Wilder & Butler - and some of their both ignorant and ungrateful attitudes. Neither would have been playing pro football and making a living at it if not for the Argos & the CFL last season. Get lost - the both of you.

Keep signing these guys Popp - looks real good on the Argos & the CFL.

[Will]

He isn't wrong about the practice facility.

[Will]

My opinions on the Butler/Wilder situation are way over the map.

[dmont]

.

I see a lot of differences between this and the Wilder case. Wilder basically said "I looked at the situation and decided it wasnt for me. I understand I need to sit out a year, and I'm going to do it. Otherwise, nothing but good feelings for the Argonauts". Butler is bashing the team and how it operates, essentially telling other players not to come here. Forget negotiations, I say demand an immediate retraction or the Argos suspend him.

It's one thing if the playing conditions are harsh and the owners are making boat loads of money, but this is an organization that lost money last year and nobody's getting rich. I'm sorry it doesn't live up to his standards but that's been the reality of cfl football in toronto: surviving. I hope MLSE changes that.

The one point Butler might have is if his handshake agreement was made with the previous GM. Popp might do something like "I was unaware that the previous management had made this promise. I've since confirmed it and will honour the previous arrangement." That calms things down without setting a precedent.

In short, I see some grey area with Wilder (although I still disagree with his approach) but I Butler is very disappointing. If the Argos discipline him over this, they have my full support.

[R.J]

This could be a long off season, as I don't think it's only Argonaut players having these issues. He's right about Canadian's being paid more (sad that Canadian's are not only handing roster and starting spots, but also handed significantly more money just because of their passport), Butler's also right about the practice facility which is pathetic to say the least. I didn't know about the meals not being provided, that's messed up as there are quite a few CFL teams providing them now at some point on practice/walk through days. Add in that the League has told all the execs/football ops people not to pay out the bonuses, and this is not looking good right now.

Players need to get paid substantially more IMO, they need much better insurance benefits, I also think it's time to either lower or get rid of the ratio, bring down the roster size to 40 (+ 10 PR, then add 5 for NFL cuts), and maybe even look at taking out the starting QB's salary out of the SMS.

Butler signed the deal, but if he was told by Zimmerman or whomever, that he'd be free to go to the NFl in 2018, then I do think he should be let go. I wouldn't work for a company where my bosses don't keep their word.

[ArgoGabe22]

Not a fan of him saying he's being taken hostage, when there are actual hostages in the world. But, if he was promised to be released, then he probably should. Do I think he needed to write everything that he did publicly? No. And seeing that he lasted in the NFL for more years than the average player, i'm sure there are more CFL players who are currently playing (and not publicly complaining) and are under much more financial stress living in TO or Vancouver than he is. He also has quite the nice car, if its even his LOL.

[jerrym]

Part of this problem relates to the change in management. Barker let some players go the NFL after one year. As Butler's letter notes, he was signed after Popp became GM. IMO, if Barker promised Butler or Wider they could go to the NFL after one year, Popp should honour that as an Argo promise even if he wants to change his approach on two year contracts in the future. Failing to keep Barker's commitment, if that was what happened, could hurt recruiting in the future as players wonder if other promises will be upheld or if they will be ignored if management changes, as sooner or later it will.



Last February, I signed a one-year deal with the organization that included a team-held option. I made it painfully clear to the team that I was only interested in playing the 2017 season. I saw this as a great opportunity and possible chance to relaunch my NFL career where I had played 65 games over seven seasons. I was told that the Argos have a history of working with guys who have the opportunity to play down south, so if it did not pan out there was always a home for them back in Toronto.
I said: “If that’s the understanding, let’s do it.”
Shortly after joining the team, Jim Popp was hired on as general manager and Marc Trestman as the head coach.


http://3downnation.com/2018/01/26/victor-butler-argonauts-holding-hostage/

[Scooter McCray]

The Love Boat is taking on some water. It was all too good to be true. For guys like Wilder and Butler that have been professionals for a few years, their tactics for airing their concerns in the public leave alot to be desired. Why burn your bridges like this. They should understand that the Argos and any other CFL team would want them for more than one season, hence the 2 year standard entry contracts the CFL has. Likewise, if they do light up the league in year one of said contract, than I would hope the incumbent team does offer to improve the contract for the last year. Offer an extension as well, but if the player really wants to bolt after two years, sweeten the final year and leave it at that.

Otherwise there is no point to signing players like this who really think they are going to jump right back to the NFL immediately. It is counterproductive, and the PR in this situation is in no way beneficial to the team or the league. This just looks bad for the league. Unfortunately there is not a ton of money in the CFL. Football rosters are huge in comparison to other sports. All of the revenues are in Canadian dollars, and the TV deal while good, probably doesn't compensate the league based upon the viewership they deliver compared to the other sports. The other side of revenues being gate driven, the largest cities are the poorest draws in attendance and that doesn't help matters. The argument is like a dog chasing it's tail; "I don't like the CFL because it is minor league, they don't pay guys enough." Rather than this is good, entertaining football. I will go to some games, thereby filling team coffers and increase ability to recruit and retain top talent.

[OV Argo]

What type of CFL GM signs players who he knows are only interested in a one season / cup of coffee/ quick pay-cheque attitude and then adios? Nice way to build a team, huh? I guess the type of GM who believes getting some of these players is worth it cause it almost guarantees a big winning season and a very good chance at a GC ? Name me all the times that has happened.

The Argos were a .500 type team last season; and things gelled nicely for a play-off run; Victor Butler and James Wilder are both fine football players, and had some great moments for the Argos last season; but it's not like the team was getting a proven CFL superstar like a Doug Flutie. I'd suggest Wilder's 9 carries for 14 yards production in the GC game is easily replaceable; Butler didn't do much in that game either. They were both more like a few big, outstanding game type players and I don't think they respect or appreciate the CFL. I'll take the game that the likes of Declan Cross or Matt Black or Sean McEwen or Jermaine Gabriel or Llevi Noel brought in the GC / play-offs and their respect for the pro league in their own country.

Sick of over-rated, superior in their own minds American players bad-mouthing the CFL and the CFL GOB types who $uck up to them. And spouting cliched bull$hite they were told/sold - about a few Canadian O-linemen being over-paid in the CFL when the reality is that a majority of a CFL team's $MS is reserved for American players - QBs are the highest paid by far and star, vet starters make way more than average - and CFL GOBs reserve a majority or roster spots period, a huge majority of starting jobs (highest paid), and a monopoly of the highest paid jobs (QBs) for their favored American players.

Total garbage / B$ - makes me want to puke - that this league had the gall to once bill itself as "Radically Canadian" or wants to float "it's our game" type bull$hite.

"This town needs an enema" - said the Joker ;o) Please sign Johnny Football so we can all go - "golly gee, an all-American hero comes to our little old CFL; we're so fortunate".

:biteme:

[ArgoZ]

Welcome to the Argonauts, the NFL’s farm team! Sorry guys, but that guy (Barker) is gone. God forbid Popp is trying to build a winning franchise for us Argos fans. So just checking, that’s Posey, Wilder, and now Butler that want $200000 next year. Anyone else want to join in? I called it, I saw the signs of these egos on Twitter. OV covered all my points, way to much BS spewing from Butler than Wilder.

[argotom]

This has not been a good week for the team.
The public relations aspect has taken a hit.
Even though what's the old saying there is no such thing as bad PR as long as you stay relevant?

[Skilz]

This has not been a good week for the team.
The public relations aspect has taken a hit.
Even though what's the old saying there is no such thing as bad PR as long as you stay relevant?

Good or Bad. This two player "mutiny" will be the first great test of Popp's leadership..

Either you stem the flow with these two, or be prepared for the 15+ other Non-Imports to revolt god forbid after another good season...

I assure you that an Athlete not making "enough" money has never earned the collective sympathy of a City or fanbase. (see Jose Bautista's "$25 million demands" two seasons ago - Right, where is he at now?)

[argos1873]

I had to laugh when he implied that not being allowed to play in the NFL was and I quote "a crime against humanity". I'm laughing and shaking my head at the same time. I'd rather watch a team of guys who couldn't sack a bag of peanuts than this jackass. Beat it.

[argotom]

I had to laugh when he implied that not being allowed to play in the NFL was and I quote "a crime against humanity". I'm laughing and shaking my head at the same time. I'd rather watch a team of guys who couldn't sack a bag of peanuts than this jackass. Beat it.

He is right on about the practice facilities and the cost of living in the city.
Not to mention the paltry salary, also like Wilder's.

[RB957]

One thing the Argos do need to do, and it is alluded to in another post, is improve the conditions that the players work under. Their practice facilities have been a joke for a long time. I appreciate that no money was being spent when Braley owned the team because all he was doing was keeping the lights on, but MLSE has to make big improvements. And if it's true what Butler has posted... professional athletes shouldn't have breakfast deducted from their game cheques. That's just petty. Reminds me of the line in Moneyball about the Oakland Athletics charging players to get a pop from the vending machine in their clubhouse.

It is a given that the nature of the market here in Canada means that players won't make the same money as in the U.S. But they are still professional athletes and should be treated accordingly.

[gilthethrill]

Gee, looks like the Argos are the worst employers in the world.....no other CFL team seems to have these issues like Wilder and now Butler are causing.

[ArgoZ]

I had to laugh when he implied that not being allowed to play in the NFL was and I quote "a crime against humanity". I'm laughing and shaking my head at the same time. I'd rather watch a team of guys who couldn't sack a bag of peanuts than this jackass. Beat it.

:D ROTFL, good one. To think, this team wasn't even that great last year. Imagine if the actual great teams had to deal with this. Maybe some do, but at least it would be somewhat expected, not from a bunch of guys who were fortunate to win the Cup thanks to a fumble. These guys exhausted all there NFL options, now they want to leave because there’s “interest”. Finish your damn contract and then you’ll get the pay day. This is a no win for Popp. He releases them, they likely don’t make it, they come back to the highest bidder (not necessarily the Argos) or decide to retire. I’ve always said $ trumps everything and players are always out for themselves, but this is getting ridiculous.

[R.J]

Gee, looks like the Argos are the worst employers in the world.....no other CFL team seems to have these issues like Wilder and now Butler are causing.
I'm sure other teams do face these issues from time to time, we just seem to have the bad apples this time. Chris Williams had something like this go down with Hamilton a few years ago, although IIRC he played 2 years out of a 3 year deal, which IIRC lead to the League ensuring that 2 year offers also had to be offered during the negotiating process. However, teams nowadays will just offer 2 year minimum, and a 3 year deal with more money, which is bad form IMO, but I don't see that changing anytime soon.

[gilthethrill]

I'm sure other teams do face these issues from time to time, we just seem to have the bad apples this time. Chris Williams had something like this go down with Hamilton a few years ago, although IIRC he played 2 years out of a 3 year deal, which IIRC lead to the League ensuring that 2 year offers also had to be offered during the negotiating process. However, teams nowadays will just offer 2 year minimum, and a 3 year deal with more money, which is bad form IMO, but I don't see that changing anytime soon.

I don't feel either Butler or Wilder want more cash from the Argos. They just want out and quickly.

[R.J]

I don't feel either Butler or Wilder want more cash from the Argos. They just want out and quickly.
At least Butler's honest about wanting out, Wilder makes it seem as though he'd stay another year for more money, but I think is a load of you know what.

[Argo57]

Popp hasn’t had the success in the CFL through lying to players.
At this point I would release both of these malcontents and move on, if they try the NFL and get released again they can sign elsewhere.
Butler sounds like an a-hole period, Wilder’s good guy teammate routine seems disingenuous at best right now.
I’m actually quite shocked at the pure venom being thrown at this team just weeks after their win.
They both seem hell bent on discrediting the Argos and how they operate so no turning back with either one.....see ya later🖕

[jerrym]

Good or Bad. This two player "mutiny" will be the first great test of Popp's leadership..

Either you stem the flow with these two, or be prepared for the 15+ other Non-Imports to revolt god forbid after another good season...



I think you mean Imports (Internationals).

[Joe Barnes]

I am not naive, and realize this is a business, but as someone who bought into and thoroughly enjoyed the (seemingly) positive vibe that emanated from the team last season, the last couple of days has been upsetting. For sure some of the players gripes have some merit, but this kind of negative publicity, just when things looked like they might turn around...jeez! How much will this hurt both the team's recruiting and attempt to re-establish itself in the market (assuming this story and Wilder's are picked up on outside of the diehards)? The money paid to US players (on entry contracts) in the CFL needs to be looked at but, man, are the Argos that bad? Any different than other teams? As stated, this revolt must be stopped and soon. Team needs to make a statement to all players from last year asking 'Are you with us, or not?' If not, then thanks for 2017, but see ya...

[argos1873]

He is right on about the practice facilities and the cost of living in the city.
Not to mention the paltry salary, also like Wilder's.

He is right to complain about those things, but he can do it without all the hyperbole, that makes him look like an ass. On the other hand, he can't really complain about the salary when he knew going into it, and it's not like he's locked into a long-term contract, he's going into year 2 of a 2 year deal!

But on a human level, I find it hard to feel sorry for him, when he complains about having to provide for his family. Remember, he played at least 4 full years in the NFL. At league minimum that's $450,000 USD per season. In total after exchange that's about 2.2 million CDN total. I'd have to work almost 30 years to earn that much. I also have a family to support, but if I went public about how hard done by I am, a full chorus of laughs would be hurled my way.

[gilthethrill]

The league could raise the entry level contract to say, $75,000. Players that want out would still point out that it is a fraction of what a potential NFL opportunity would pay.

[Mightygoose]

Ambroise's take

https://www.tsn.ca/ambrosie-issues-raised-by-wilder-butler-worthy-of-discussion-1.980144

Want consistency. Doesn't want to see side deals done. Look amateurish.....we're better than this.

Very true words. Looking forward to see how change is done.

[OV Argo]

Ambroise's take

https://www.tsn.ca/ambrosie-issues-raised-by-wilder-butler-worthy-of-discussion-1.980144

Want consistency. Doesn't want to see side deals done. Look amateurish.....we're better than this.

Very true words. Looking forward to see how change is done.


What's he going to do about Ego-Jones types - GOBs who gladly let players out of their contracts, and even claims to help them with the process, so they can better themselves in the allmighty NFL, rather than have to stick around the dinky little CFL ?

Lots of commentators calling for a return of the old option year NFL try-out window (short period, say Feb. to before NFL draft time) - I'd be OK with that - IF the player is obligated to sign with his old CFL team if he returns to the CFL, plus the NFL pays a small fee, to the CFL team, for those CFLers that make an NFL roster.

[Stevoman]

Increase the size of the entry level contracts (although it will never be enough) and allow the 6 week NFL window into every contract. Improve the Argos practice field situation and don't charge players for breakfast. Those are changes that should happen a result of this but that is where my agreement with Butler and Wilder ends.

Remember when Chad Owens was on the practice roster in Montreal and later on a lower contract with the Argos? He had a wife and 3 children but chose to pay his dues and commit to the league and I think he has done quite well for himself but only because he had the proper mindset about it all. I don't remember Chad Kackert whining either even though he spent the last 2 seasons on the practice roster. Those two seemed grateful to be here. Those are the kinds of attitudes we want on our team.

We just passed"blue Monday" and it seems like a very real thing for Butler and Wilder.

[AngeloV]

Honestly, I think the Argos should speak to both, get back in the good books, and release them both. If their NFL dreams fizzle, hopefully the show of good faith by the Argos will result in both re-signing. I wouldn't want players in camp that don't want to be there.

[ArgoRavi]

The most baffling thing to me about the Butler situation is his belief that there is a lineup of NFL teams out there willing to pay a 30 year-old defensive lineman a minimum of $915k US which is what he would be due to earn, given his veteran status in that league. He is an excellent football player but NFL teams aren't interested in adding 30 year-old d-linemen with big tickets.

[Jon Gonzo]

One thing the Argos do need to do, and it is alluded to in another post, is improve the conditions that the players work under. Their practice facilities have been a joke for a long time. I appreciate that no money was being spent when Braley owned the team because all he was doing was keeping the lights on, but MLSE has to make big improvements. And if it's true what Butler has posted... professional athletes shouldn't have breakfast deducted from their game cheques. That's just petty. Reminds me of the line in Moneyball about the Oakland Athletics charging players to get a pop from the vending machine in their clubhouse.

It is a given that the nature of the market here in Canada means that players won't make the same money as in the U.S. But they are still professional athletes and should be treated accordingly.

This is exceptionally true. I also agree that Victor Butler should 'beat it.' We are building a solid football program in Toronto and it's going to be very important that people respect that and want to be part of it.

[gilthethrill]

Seriously, the team charges players for breakfast????

[argos1873]

Seriously, the team charges players for breakfast????

If this is true, why is he the first to complain about it?

[OV Argo]

If this is true, why is he the first to complain about it?

Yep - airing complaints in public about the TEAM that gave him a shot to play and make a living is cheap & petty IMO. Guy has no respect for the CFL or the Argos.

Fack him and Wilder; there are other good DEs & RBs out there who the Argos can find - and who will appreciate the opportunity and not be malconents who drag the team down.

[Argo]

Honestly, I think the Argos should speak to both, get back in the good books, and release them both. If their NFL dreams fizzle, hopefully the show of good faith by the Argos will result in both re-signing. I wouldn't want players in camp that don't want to be there.

Player retention is a seemingly intractable problem for the CFL, due to a relatively low salary cap and a consistently weak dollar. CFL clubs are damned if they do, and damned if they don't (release players with stated NFL aspirations, however unrealistic).

Previously I indicated my unhappiness with Barker's approach (release 'em all) but, as you say, if players under contract don't want to be a part of the team, then what's the point of enforcing contracts and keeping them around?

[Shatto]

It is obvious that Butler wants nothing less than a release from his contractual obligations, so he can pursue an NFL contract. If it was implied, he would be able to get out of his contract, after one year, when he signed on Feb1, it would have been Zimmerman who made that "promise", since Popp was not hired till Feb 28. If he was led to believe he could leave, then I understand his displeasure when he found out he was locked in for a 2nd year. There should be no blame attached to Popp on this one, as he is just toeing the line of CFL policy.

Butler's petulant tirade has unfortunately resulted in his burning his bridges. There would appear no way that he can now back down and his harangue and his inflammatory language now makes it unlikely that management would attempt to compromise. His rant was an all out attack on the Argo organization and gains him no friends within that organization.

He was out of football for two years and next season he will turn 31. With his veteran status, he would command a $915,000 salary. Since no NFL team showed any interest in him for 2 years, at his age, it is highly unlikely he would garner much NFL interest.

Had he entered negotiations in a positive manner, it is quite possible, based on his play last year, he might well have achieved a substantial salary increase, if he had agreed to accept an extended contract. Now, it is more likely the team will play hard ball, demanding he return and play for his present salary. It is highly likely that he will refuse to report to training camp and will be suspended. This will result in him attempting to make an NFL team in 2019 at age 32 and having been out of football 3 of the past 4 years. I don't fancy his chances.

The one issue that needs to be addressed is the question of his being given the impression that he could demand a release after one year. If Zimmerman did imply, that he would have that right, then Zimmerman blew it. Perhaps a more experience manage would have known better.

In any case the team needs to do some P R work immediately

[ArgoGabe22]

Word is he negotiated with Barker, not Zimmerman. So should Popp honour that?

[ArgoZ]

Player retention is a seemingly intractable problem for the CFL, due to a relatively low salary cap and a consistently weak dollar. CFL clubs are damned if they do, and damned if they don't (release players with stated NFL aspirations, however unrealistic).

Previously I indicated my unhappiness with Barker's approach (release 'em all) but, as you say, if players under contract don't want to be a part of the team, then what's the point of enforcing contracts and keeping them around?

By enforcing the contract and they sit, Butler and Wilder won't be signing with the Ti-Cats come Sept.

[argos1873]

Goodbye Butler and Wilder. You both knew what you were getting yourselves into. If you don't like your fantasy world that you live in, go get a real job. You did go to college right? What do you mean you were only there for your football scholarship? Oh..welp, too bad. Let the reality of life hit you on the ass now, as it should have 5 years ago if there was never such a thing as collegiate scholarships. Nice try using the Argos as your springboard. The operative word being USING. So its ok if you use the Argos, but not ok if they use you? Goodbye.

[gilthethrill]

Word is he negotiated with Barker, not Zimmerman. So should Popp honour that?

No he should not...Popp is doing nothing wrong here. Why is no one displeased at the NFL for approaching two star Argos, who are under contract? Wilder and Butler have really done a lot of damage to both the Argos and the CFL.

[Argo57]

No he should not...Popp is doing nothing wrong here. Why is no one displeased at the NFL for approaching two star Argos, who are under contract? Wilder and Butler have really done a lot of damage to both the Argos and the CFL.

Both have shown their true colours and won’t be missed at this point.
It is one thing to want out but to intentionally trash the very organization that rescued them from the football scrap heap is beyond words IMO.

[Argo]

By enforcing the contract and they sit, Butler and Wilder won't be signing with the Ti-Cats come Sept.

Yeah, I know. Sigh. It just goes to show that acting out in public is never an appropriate action.

[Flutie]

Both have shown their true colours and won’t be missed at this point.
It is one thing to want out but to intentionally trash the very organization that rescued them from the football scrap heap is beyond words IMO.

But on the other hand if you work for a company and you were one of the main reasons for their success and they tell you that you have to stay on minimum wage because you signed a contract for 2 years, I wouldn't be too happy either, how many people have trashed talked their employer when they won't give you a raise after you have worked hard for them?
I can't blame Wilder for walking, he just can't afford to play in Toronto and maintain a family in Tampa. He will likely sit for the season. work at his business and then try the NFL or another CFL team in 2019.

[paulwoods13]

There are basically equal rights at play here: the team has the right to insist its contracts be enforced, to the potential detriment of the players; the players have the right to withhold their services, to the potential detriment of the team. Both seem to be happening and so here we are.

I am not in favour of the team releasing the players prematurely, or granting them pay increases for 2018 without getting something in return -- either an extra year on the contract or a guarantee that the player will return to the Argos (on contract terms agreed to in advance) if the player is granted permission to try the NFL after 2018 and is unsuccessful. Since the commissioner is now on record as opposing "side deals" (and I think they were contrary to the CBA anyway), I doubt we will see such a deal with either player.

At this point I think we should be prepared to have both Wilder and Butler sit out the 2018 season, and if that happens, so be it. We will find other guys who can play and are willing to sign the contracts we offer. Too bad since both are excellent players, but I don't believe teams should ever negotiate at gunpoint.

[AngeloV]

I'm not upset with either player. The were both key figures in a Grey Cup win. Shitty that they both want out, but they aren't the first first won't be the last that feel that way. I hope it all works out for both, whether that means getting their NFL chance or returning.×

[1971GreyCup]

I am still trying to get over Bo Washington! Haha

[Argo57]

But on the other hand if you work for a company and you were one of the main reasons for their success and they tell you that you have to stay on minimum wage because you signed a contract for 2 years, I wouldn't be too happy either, how many people have trashed talked their employer when they won't give you a raise after you have worked hard for them?
I can't blame Wilder for walking, he just can't afford to play in Toronto and maintain a family in Tampa. He will likely sit for the season. work at his business and then try the NFL or another CFL team in 2019.

They willingly signed a contract to do so and have the choice to sit out next year.

[ArgoGabe22]

I am still trying to get over Bo Washington! Haha

Pacino Horne for me.

[OV Argo]

I'm not upset with either player. The were both key figures in a Grey Cup win. Shitty that they both want out, but they aren't the first first won't be the last that feel that way. I hope it all works out for both, whether that means getting their NFL chance or returning.×


I wish both guys well, but the lack of respect for the team and league, that gave them a chance to play pro ball (when they weren't going anywhere in the NFL) is very disappointing and signs of selfish spoiled brat pro athlete syndrome IMO.

I've said several times before here - both are very good football talents; and they both had some outstanding games for the Argos last season; but neither played the full season - like some other Argos DID. And as far as "key figures" in the GC win? - Wilder had 9 carries for 14 yards (ultra weak) and Butler had all of 1 tackle and zero sacks in that game. They had little to do with the actual GC win - while guys like Cross, Black, Gabriel, McEwen, Laing certainly did.

I'll be happy for them if they do make it back in the NFL and earn a nice living to support their families - everybody gets that, it's so obvious. But I don't want them back with the Argo TEAM; they trashed the team and their demands are selfish and unrealistic. Get lost you 2 clowns.

[Argo57]

I wish both guys well, but the lack of respect for the team and league, that gave them a chance to play pro ball (when they weren't going anywhere in the NFL) is very disappointing and signs of selfish spoiled brat pro athlete syndrome IMO.

I've said several times before here - both are very good football talents; and they both had some outstanding games for the Argos last season; but neither played the full season - like some other Argos DID. And as far as "key figures" in the GC win? - Wilder had 9 carries for 14 yards (ultra weak) and Butler had all of 1 tackle and zero sacks in that game. They had little to do with the actual GC win - while guys like Cross, Black, Gabriel, McEwen, Laing certainly did.

I'll be happy for them if they do make it back in the NFL and earn a nice living to support their families - everybody gets that, it's so obvious. But I don't want them back with the Argo TEAM; they trashed the team and their demands are selfish and unrealistic. Get lost you 2 clowns.

I’m with you OV, their sentiment in regards to providing for their families is completely understandable but the method they have both chosen is deplorable.
Can’t see the organization looking past this in regards to any possible return.

[ArgoGabe22]

I still say to just let them go and let them exhaust these supposed opportunities. They'll be begging to come back before the season. I doubt any NFL team will give them a legit shot.

[Al&Kat]

Perhaps the Cleveland (oh-fer) Browns?

[Shatto]

Thank you ArgoGabe for the insight, that it was Barker that negotiated with Butler. It makes sense, since Barker was not fired until Jan 24 and negotiations probably did occur earlier in the month. The actual signing appears to have been Feb 1 which mean Zimmerman would have managed that.

It raises a couple of questions---if Butler knew the person who supposedly made the verbal "promise" had been fired, why wouldn't clarify the issue with Zimmerman before signing? Or did he?

It appears that he believes (or is led to believe) if he throws enough mud at the team, they will want nothing to do with him and release him. He is sadly mistaken IMO and will find himself suspended and unable to play anywhere next year. Really is a sad situation for a player who contributed so much to the team's performance last year.

[jerrym]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Some CFL GM’s want NFL window because they believe many players who believe they can land NFL jobs are incorrect. Having the NFL window and getting no offers became a reality check for many players. Then they were happy to sign longer CFL deals and forget about NFL.# CFL</p>&mdash; David William Naylor (@TSNDaveNaylor) <a href="https://twitter.com/TSNDaveNaylor/status/957274127664078848?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 27, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Wobbler]

I preferred the old policy of releasing players to pursue NFL opportunities on request, to preserve goodwill and help with recruiting.

It's unfortunate that Butler had the rug pulled out from under him. I doubt that we'd have Marcus Ball today if we had given him a hard time in 2014.

[Argo]

I preferred the old policy of releasing players to pursue NFL opportunities on request, to preserve goodwill and help with recruiting.

It's unfortunate that Butler had the rug pulled out from under him. I doubt that we'd have Marcus Ball today if we had given him a hard time in 2014.

I think I have changed my mind and agree with your old policy preference. Just a matter of facing an unpleasant reality I suppose.

[OV Argo]

The CFL could take it one step further and sign up to be a farm league for the NFL - let NFL teams call up CFL players from the minors at any time; and they have to compensate the CFL team (by paying say minimum the player's CFL salary, or can bid much higher, which is not then applied to the CFL $M$). Any NFL team could call-up a player from any CFL team at any time.

A win/win for the CFL: why stand in the way of any of these players from a chance to go to the real "show" at any time - it might be the only instance where they get a real NFL call, and the shot at so much money & prestige; why should they have to wait for their dinky little CFL contract to expire or an off-season to try to shop themselves to the NFL? IF CFL GMs - like Jim Barker or Ego-Jones - say they want what's best for the players, why stand in their way from an NFL shot at any time? Also a financial reward for the CFL team - and it's all just about the buck$, right? - it's just a business after all; CFL teams could get lots of ca$h from NFL teams, and it would allow them to sign more talent, without $M$ restrictions.

[AngeloV]

I say just get rid of the mandatory 1 + 1 for entry level contracts. Then if a player gets caught in a contract he doesn't like, the blame is squarely on him and his agent. Makes no sense to me why a 2nd contract can be for 1 year but not a first. Especially with contracts not being guaranteed.

[gilthethrill]

The CFL could take it one step further and sign up to be a farm league for the NFL - let NFL teams call up CFL players from the minors at any time; and they have to compensate the CFL team (by paying say minimum the player's CFL salary, or can bid much higher, which is not then applied to the CFL $M$). Any NFL team could call-up a player from any CFL team at any time.

A win/win for the CFL: why stand in the way of any of these players from a chance to go to the real "show" at any time - it might be the only instance where they get a real NFL call, and the shot at so much money & prestige; why should they have to wait for their dinky little CFL contract to expire or an off-season to try to shop themselves to the NFL? IF CFL GMs - like Jim Barker or Ego-Jones - say they want what's best for the players, why stand in their way from an NFL shot at any time? Also a financial reward for the CFL team - and it's all just about the buck$, right? - it's just a business after all; CFL teams could get lots of ca$h from NFL teams, and it would allow them to sign more talent, without $M$ restrictions.

How would an NFL team call up a player from the CFL after November? Not sure I like the thought of a star player in the CFL getting called up to the NFL during Grey Cup Week.

[Shatto]

Interesting comment regarding the CFL becoming an official minor league for the NFL. Not sure if the suggestion was "tongue in cheek" or made seriously, but still an interesting suggestion. Unfortunately it would IMO, be the death knell of the league. As a very long time STH and others I know, would not bother to have to attend games under those conditions. Perhaps smaller centres such as Hamilton, Ottawa and some Western teams could continue for a while, something like the AHL but it would cease to be a league as we know it now.

[argotom]

The league could raise the entry level contract to say, $75,000. Players that want out would still point out that it is a fraction of what a potential NFL opportunity would pay.


Agree, as it is much needed.
In addition as I previously suggested, there should be a new revised football operation type cap for all players, coaches, trainers at a minimum $10M.

[OV Argo]

Interesting comment regarding the CFL becoming an official minor league for the NFL. Not sure if the suggestion was "tongue in cheek" or made seriously, but still an interesting suggestion. Unfortunately it would IMO, be the death knell of the league. As a very long time STH and others I know, would not bother to have to attend games under those conditions. Perhaps smaller centres such as Hamilton, Ottawa and some Western teams could continue for a while, something like the AHL but it would cease to be a league as we know it now.


:o)

We need more emoticons here - like the sarcastic, rolling eyes one.


I getta kick out of some CFL "fans" - saying they believe whatever is best for the player and his shot at making big buck$ in the NFL should be paramount. Brilliant & noble/ altruistic CFL GM like Ego-Jones (or Jim Barker) doing everything he can to make sure his guys can get to go back - down home - to play in the NFL; let them out of their CFL contracts, heck even advertise/shop their skills to NFL teams - get the guy out of the dinky little CFL and down to the Show. Way to go Ego - you and your hero-worshipping fans are just special, and so much respect for the CFL.

Too bad the CFL is run by a majority of these GOBs - and maybe not surprising that they see/treat the CFL as some little minor league compared to the real football where they come from. And clueless dork CFL owner types will continue to hire these clowns to run their teams - no end in sight.

"Radically Canadian" - LOL

:fart:

[Argo57]

Agree, as it is much needed.
In addition as I previously suggested, there should be a new revised football operation type cap for all players, coaches, trainers at a minimum $10M.

A minimum of $10M?
Based on what profit/loss analysis?

[AngeloV]

A minimum of $10M?
Based on what profit/loss analysis?

Then they can give Swaze Waters that 10 year deal AT wanted back then. No reality there.

[argotom]

Then they can give Swaze Waters that 10 year deal AT wanted back then. No reality there.

Wrong, I wanted to give him a lifetime deal...no cut no trade????

[Wobbler]

I say just get rid of the mandatory 1 + 1 for entry level contracts.
Agreed (again).

[Argo57]

Well done Glen Suitor.
Popp and the Argos have taken a lot of unjustified criticism in the last few days, Suitor had the guts to call Victor Butler out👍

http://3downnation.com/2018/01/29/glen-suitor-says-victor-butler-owes-canada-and-the-cfl-an-apology/

[OV Argo]

Well done Glen Suitor.
Popp and the Argos have taken a lot of unjustified criticism in the last few days, Suitor had the guts to call Victor Butler out

http://3downnation.com/2018/01/29/glen-suitor-says-victor-butler-owes-canada-and-the-cfl-an-apology/


Yeah, well, nice that somebody got to reply.

Laughable that American players would complain about getting access to play in the CFL. How many Canadian players got even a try-out, let alone made a roster, on all those US based CFL teams during that US expansion period? I believe the answer would be ZERO. Just "radical". ;o)

[Scooter McCray]

Yeah, well, nice that somebody got to reply.

Laughable that American players would complain about getting access to play in the CFL. How many Canadian players got even a try-out, let alone made a roster, on all those US based CFL teams during that US expansion period? I believe the answer would be ZERO. Just "radical". ;o)One of the truly frustrating things. Don Matthews one of the great Argo coaches and CFL coaches of all time with all of his history in the league and he did not see any value in having one Canadian on his roster. It was nice watchi ng
him lose in 1994 against BC.

[OV Argo]

One of the truly frustrating things. Don Matthews one of the great Argo coaches and CFL coaches of all time with all of his history in the league and he did not see any value in having one Canadian on his roster. It was nice watchi ng
him lose in 1994 against BC.


That what the CFL would quickly look like if it was run by American only GOB types. IMO.

Loved that 94 GC - great game - and what I particularly enjoyed was BC's all-NI/Canadian D-line (Doug Petersen, Dave Chaytors, Andrew Stewart mostly in a 3-4 look) basically man-handling Baltimore's supposedly oh so superior all American O-line a lot of that game.

Matthews got his Americans only revenge the next GC though (aided big-time by wind tunnel conditions in Regina that hampered Flutie - the Stamps had beat Baltimore in the reg. season in 95).