Linebacking Corps

[Will]

It is obvious that our goal in free agency was to solidify the middle linebacking spot, although some were proponents of going with Plummer in that spot. Some of us thought that re-signing Khalil Bass meant that Bear Woods was as good as gone so many of us were pleased when the Argos re-signed him earlier in the week, however a few minutes later we learned that the Argos had also re-signed Taylor Reed from the Redblacks. This was somewhat odd given that Woods and Reed play the same position. The Argos currently have (I believe) 9 linebackers on the roster of which 4 (Woods, Bass, Reed and Jordan) have been known as middle linebackers in the past. I'm not so much concerned with the outside spots as I figure that Ball is at one spot and Plummer likely at the other. I'm grateful for the talent Popp has brought into that position, but I am a little confused at what the plan appears to be. There are several questions I asked myself and wanted to get input from others:

1) Had the market for MLB gone down so fast that the Argos were able to snap up two pretty good ones in Woods and Reed? To my knowledge, Winnipeg, Saskatchewan and Montreal all need MLB.
2) Were Reed and Woods aware that the Argos were signing both? Why would either sign here if there was no guarantee that they'd be starting?
3) Are the Argos considering a 3-4 configuration?
4) Are the Argos considering moving an OLB to DE? Is that practical? Are there any candidates?

[Argo57]

It is obvious that our goal in free agency was to solidify the middle linebacking spot, although some were proponents of going with Plummer in that spot. Some of us thought that re-signing Khalil Bass meant that Bear Woods was as good as gone so many of us were pleased when the Argos re-signed him earlier in the week, however a few minutes later we learned that the Argos had also re-signed Taylor Reed from the Redblacks. This was somewhat odd given that Woods and Reed play the same position. The Argos currently have (I believe) 9 linebackers on the roster of which 4 (Woods, Bass, Reed and Jordan) have been known as middle linebackers in the past. I'm not so much concerned with the outside spots as I figure that Ball is at one spot and Plummer likely at the other. I'm grateful for the talent Popp has brought into that position, but I am a little confused at what the plan appears to be. There are several questions I asked myself and wanted to get input from others:

1) Had the market for MLB gone down so fast that the Argos were able to snap up two pretty good ones in Woods and Reed? To my knowledge, Winnipeg, Saskatchewan and Montreal all need MLB.
2) Were Reed and Woods aware that the Argos were signing both? Why would either sign here if there was no guarantee that they'd be starting?
3) Are the Argos considering a 3-4 configuration?
4) Are the Argos considering moving an OLB to DE? Is that practical? Are there any candidates?

I think all of your scenarios are in play, Argos could employ a 3-4 and mix it up by rushing a LB.
TC trade is also a distinct possibility, biggest variable will be what system does the new DC run.
Personally I think Popp is simply accumulating as much talent as possible for TC and will react accordingly based on performance.

[AngeloV]

I think they will look hard at Reed for starter at MLB given the fact that he's 5 years younger than Woods. I'm putting my money on him to win the job.

[OV Argo]

I think they will look hard at Reed for starter at MLB given the fact that he's 5 years younger than Woods. I'm putting my money on him to win the job.

Both Woods & Plummer are better MLB talents than Reed IMO - who hasn't stuck with 3 CFL teams now for a reason (IMO).

I really hope this team does not have to get into cheaper or younger prospect mode and deploy inferior players when there are better players available - and because they were in CFL over-paying for QBs thinking as well. I'd rather have Ray backed-up by a younger QB (with skills and upside) than having to pay big buck$ to a Franklin - who is still basically unproven and not going to be the starter with Ray there ... and then the trickle down affect on the roster is cheaper and not as good at other positions.

[Argo57]

Both Woods & Plummer are better MLB talents than Reed IMO - who hasn't stuck with 3 CFL teams now for a reason (IMO).

I really hope this team does not have to get into cheaper or younger prospect mode and deploy inferior players when there are better players available - and because they were in CFL over-paying for QBs thinking as well. I'd rather have Ray backed-up by a younger QB (with skills and upside) than having to pay big buck$ to a Franklin - who is still basically unproven and not going to be the starter with Ray there ... and then the trickle down affect on the roster is cheaper and not as good at other positions.

Disagree OV, I don’t think the Argos overall QB budget is out of line in comparison with other teams.
Ray’s contract is certainly reasonable as is Franklin’s
In regards to Reed let’s see what happens in camp, we aren’t even sure who the DC is.

[OV Argo]

Disagree OV, I don’t think the Argos overall QB budget is out of line in comparison with other teams.
Ray’s contract is certainly reasonable as is Franklin’s
In regards to Reed let’s see what happens in camp, we aren’t even sure who the DC is.

OK - i have little respect for reported CFL contracts - a lot of gossip and speculation without any verification.

BUT- in the East: the Argos duo of Ray/Franklin are making on par with what Hamilton (Masoli/Adams), Ottawa (Harris/whoever) or Montreal (Freeman/Willy) are paying for their QBs ? IF it's more like 100K or more = that can pay for a good starter or two rather than having to go el cheapo at other key positions.

As far as the new DC - yeah, who really knows; maybe he will think Reed is a superstar at MLB.

[paulwoods13]

For four years the Argos have been criticized for not keeping Ricky Ray's potential replacements; now they get a guy who by all accounts looks to have as much or more potential than the two previous backups, and they get criticized for wasting money on a backup. Can't win for trying, I guess.

[Argo57]

OK - i have little respect for reported CFL contracts - a lot of gossip and speculation without any verification.

BUT- in the East: the Argos duo of Ray/Franklin are making on par with what Hamilton (Masoli/Adams), Ottawa (Harris/whoever) or Montreal (Freeman/Willy) are paying for their QBs ? IF it's more like 100K or more = that can pay for a good starter or two rather than having to go el cheapo at other key positions.

As far as the new DC - yeah, who really knows; maybe he will think Reed is a superstar at MLB.

Looking at the other QB tandems you have mentioned in the east I’d say money well spent by Popp!

[OV Argo]

Looking at the other QB tandems you have mentioned in the east I’d say money well spent by Popp!

I'd agree; and there is nothing wrong with spending big on quality QBs, IF you have good scouts and personnel evaluators who can find good young talent to fit the budget at other spots; I just said i'd worry a bit about going el cheapo on other positions - but that doesn't have to happen. And of course this was going to be construed as some over the top, ridiculous "criticism" of anything/everything the current Argo braintrust does by the usual par for the course golfers here. ;o)

[Argo57]

I'd agree; and there is nothing wrong with spending big on quality QBs, IF you have good scouts and personnel evaluators who can find good young talent to fit the budget at other spots; I just said i'd worry a bit about going el cheapo on other positions - but that doesn't have to happen. And of course this was going to be construed as some over the top, ridiculous "criticism" of anything/everything the current Argo braintrust does by the usual par for the course golfers here. ;o)

I think overall Popp and the Argos have had a very good offseason to date.
Major holes in the secondary have been dealt with, front seven looks very solid and I’m sure they will address the DE situation from within or by trade.
Ricky Ray has re-signed, Argos have James Franklin (the top potential free agent of 2018) a solid receiving corps that should be bolstered through free agent camps etc.
I’ve been as critical as anyone on this forum but TBH coming off of our latest World Championship coupled with Popp’s efficient signings I have nothing to piss and moan about.

[paulwoods13]

I'd agree; and there is nothing wrong with spending big on quality QBs, IF you have good scouts and personnel evaluators who can find good young talent to fit the budget at other spots; I just said i'd worry a bit about going el cheapo on other positions - but that doesn't have to happen. And of course this was going to be construed as some over the top, ridiculous "criticism" of anything/everything the current Argo braintrust does by the usual par for the course golfers here. ;o)

"I'd rather have Ray backed-up by a younger QB (with skills and upside) than having to pay big buck$ to a Franklin - who is still basically unproven and not going to be the starter with Ray there"

No criticism there. Fore!

[OV Argo]

"I'd rather have Ray backed-up by a younger QB (with skills and upside) than having to pay big buck$ to a Franklin - who is still basically unproven and not going to be the starter with Ray there"

No criticism there. Fore!

Can you provide documented evidence of both Ricky Ray's and Franklin's, heck for that matter, all Argo player contract$ - please & thank-you; inquiring minds need to know.

[ArgoZ]

This is a weird thread. The defence looks as good, maybe even better (time will tell), than last year and we also have the best backup QB in the league. What the heck guys? Argos are doing pretty darn well in the 1 year contract, high turnover CFL.

[doubleblue]

Where did this LBing corps talk go off the rails. As others have mentioned it looks like things are shaping up to the Argos using a 3-4 defense part of the time.
How does everyone rate the signed guys so far. Ball has one spot locked up IMO. Woods and Plummer in the middle and Vaughan on the other side? Some decent backups in Bass, Jordan and Reed and DE Tuggle could probably play some in the middle if needed. Herdman and Onyeka for ST's.

Then we get to training camp and somebody decides to retire out of the blue. Seems to happen very year.

[OV Argo]

Where did this LBing corps talk go off the rails. As others have mentioned it looks like things are shaping up to the Argos using a 3-4 defense part of the time.
How does everyone rate the signed guys so far. Ball has one spot locked up IMO. Woods and Plummer in the middle and Vaughan on the other side? Some decent backups in Bass, Jordan and Reed and DE Tuggle could probably play some in the middle if needed. Herdman and Onyeka for ST's.

Then we get to training camp and somebody decides to retire out of the blue. Seems to happen very year.


Maybe Taylor Reed was signed for CFL minimum wage ?

[paulwoods13]

Can you provide documented evidence of both Ricky Ray's and Franklin's, heck for that matter, all Argo player contract$ - please & thank-you; inquiring minds need to know.

No. And what does that have to do with the "discussion"? Changing the subject is to be expected, I guess. Oh well, I seem to fall for it every time.

[macspectrum]

'3) Are the Argos considering a 3-4 configuration?'
i think this a good bet, i like the 3-4 if i have the lots of talent and the argos seem to have it
blitzing becomes harder to detect by offenses
def can send 1 if not 2 LB in on the blitz

[mchesher03]

I still expect to see Chamblin back for what it’s worth. If he was going to get hired elsewhere I feel like it would have happened already.

Regardless, the Argos have an embarrassment of riches on the defensive side of the football in my opinion. I’m excited to see how they do and I’m naïve enough to think that our coaching staff will gameplan to suit their strengths J

[macspectrum]

I still expect to see Chamblin back for what it’s worth. If he was going to get hired elsewhere I feel like it would have happened already.

Regardless, the Argos have an embarrassment of riches on the defensive side of the football in my opinion. I’m excited to see how they do and I’m naïve enough to think that our coaching staff will gameplan to suit their strengths J


i think jim popp might trade away some of his riches at linebacker for a bona fide running back - ya listenin messam?

[OV Argo]

I'll be shocked if a 3-4 look is used anymore than very part-time.

And the ship on Messam has sailed - he's a Rider; woulda been nice maybe to see him as an Argo and playing in his home-town; guy is a beast of a RB; but he's also getting on in mileage and would be co$tly, and not sure he would be a fit in the Trestman offence?

Argos signed that ex-Rider/Esk NI RB who has flashed a bit of CFL talent; they could also think of drafting Western star RB Alex Taylor or Ryder Storm (Dartmouth) - and then have some flexibility to play a NI RB some or lots (with Coombs able to fill in there some too); i believe they are going to have/pencil-in 5 of their 7 only NIs playing on offence - wether it's 3 O-linemen, plus 2 receivers (or 1 receiver + a RB/H-back - flexibility there with Coombs, Cross + WR - Williams, Ralph, Noel) or 4 O-linemen plus one other NI.

[doubleblue]

I'll be shocked if a 3-4 look is used anymore than very part-time.

And the ship on Messam has sailed - he's a Rider; woulda been nice maybe to see him as an Argo and playing in his home-town; guy is a beast of a RB; but he's also getting on in mileage and would be co$tly, and not sure he would be a fit in the Trestman offence?

Argos signed that ex-Rider/Esk NI RB who has flashed a bit of CFL talent; they could also think of drafting Western star RB Alex Taylor or Ryder Storm (Dartmouth) - and then have some flexibility to play a NI RB some or lots (with Coombs able to fill in there some too); i believe they are going to have/pencil-in 5 of their 7 only NIs playing on offence - wether it's 3 O-linemen, plus 2 receivers (or 1 receiver + a RB/H-back - flexibility there with Coombs, Cross + WR - Williams, Ralph, Noel) or 4 O-linemen plus one other NI.

Sure looks to me like the Argos are going 3-4 part of the time at least by the players they have signed.

I think you meant Ryder Stone a Senior RB from Alberta at Dartmouth. Those Ivy League guys quite often get on with their business life rather than play football for 60,000 ca. Listed at 5'10 210 looks to have about 4.6 speed and has played all four years down there. If he wants to play for the love of the game and starts something else in his field on the side, maybe he could make a team as a back up and ST's next year. Not a high pick IMO. Alex Taylor looks about the same size. We're talking Calvin McCarthy, Matt Walter type guys here and they had good careers in the League as good backups.

[OV Argo]

Sure looks to me like the Argos are going 3-4 part of the time at least by the players they have signed.

I think you meant Ryder Stone a Senior RB from Alberta at Dartmouth. Those Ivy League guys quite often get on with their business life rather than play football for 60,000 ca. Listed at 5'10 210 looks to have about 4.6 speed and has played all four years down there. If he wants to play for the love of the game and starts something else in his field on the side, maybe he could make a team as a back up and ST's next year. Not a high pick IMO. Alex Taylor looks about the same size. We're talking Calvin McCarthy, Matt Walter type guys here and they had good careers in the League as good backups.


Jerome Messam was not drafted - at all / period - by the genius "scouts" of the CFL = they often have little clue about or respect for Canadian tailbacks.

Taylor or Stone or Amoah (Laval) could end up just back-up CFL RBs or special teamers if they even make a roster; they also might be able to contribute well or even or lead a team in rushing IF given a real shot to compete. Anybody think Andrew Harris out of Junior ball would end up the best RB in the CFL ?

Any of them would probably be lucky enough, or like to, have a CFL career like Calvin McCarty - played for years in the league; one of the best pass catching backs in the league in years & years (IMO), plus a tough blocker and good ST player, who also contributed well enough at tailback when he got some chances.


Any bets on the Argos using a 3-4 lots this coming season? IF they even go approx. 1/4 of D snaps in a 3-4 look, i'll let you change my name here (be nice now), if you put up the same stake in saying they will go more than 1/4 of the time in 3-4. ??? ;o)

My guess is that Taylor Reed was signed as some sort of extra MLB body for TC - in case Plummer gets injured (or quits) or Woods is found too $M$ costly; or they could use one of the MLBs as trade bait to acquire something they really like.

[ArgoRavi]

Jerome Messam was not drafted - at all / period - by the genius "scouts" of the CFL = they often have little clue about or respect for Canadian tailbacks.


It wasn't a lack of talent that resulted in Messam not being drafted. He came out of college with an enormous amount of baggage which scared teams away.

[OV Argo]

It wasn't a lack of talent that resulted in Messam not being drafted. He came out of college with an enormous amount of baggage which scared teams away.

SO - i call B$ - CFL teams never take chances on players with "baggage"? - there are tons of examples and most of them are imports.

Messam not drafted AT ALL ( teams could have easily used a late round pick on him instead of some the real reach picks we see in later rounds - like Argos drafting Carson last year); Messam was not drafted because he was a Canadian tailback - guaranteed he would have been picked with his baggage if he was an O-lineman.