Argos game thread - Week 1 - Argos at Roughriders

[Will]

Friday, June 15, 2018

9 PM at Mosaic Stadium

Let's get the season off on the right foot.

[R.J]

Not hyped up yet, but will be soon enough. It's been a long off season - let's kick some butt.

[PullTogether73]

In anticipation of the new season, will there be an Argofans.com group in CFL Pick'Em again this year?

[R.J]

In anticipation of the new season, will there be an Argofans.com group in CFL Pick'Em again this year?
I don't think many around here played last season.

[Rich]

I saw some very entertaining video of our old friend Zach Collaros taking a huge punishing sack and getting knocked out of their last PS game, and this was after a lousy 6-16 passing performance. Looks like he's picking up right where he left off in the Hammer. So I guess Bridge will start, for better or for worse.

[R.J]

I saw some very entertaining video of our old friend Zach Collaros taking a huge punishing sack and getting knocked out of their last PS game, and this was after a lousy 6-16 passing performance. Looks like he's picking up right where he left off in the Hammer. So I guess Bridge will start, for better or for worse.
Collaros wasn't knocked out or concussed - He was taken out of the game to ensure no injury. Bridge didn't last out there long either, and was pulled due to the poor oline play as well.

[Rich]

Collaros wasn't knocked out or concussed - He was taken out of the game to ensure no injury. Bridge didn't last out there long either, and was pulled due to the poor oline play as well.

Either way the Riders seem a little unsettled and vulnerable right now and it's a good time to be playing them.

[R.J]

Either way the Riders seem a little unsettled and vulnerable right now and it's a good time to be playing them.
Riders aren't as good as their fans and media think they are.

[PullTogether73]

To the shock of no one who knows how much Collaros and Bridge contracts are worth, Collaros gets the start on Friday.
The "open QB battle" has been settled.
:p

[Will]

To the shock of no one who knows how much Collaros and Bridge contracts are worth, Collaros gets the start on Friday.
The "open QB battle" has been settled.
:p

Bridge was pretty successful against the Argos last season. I would've gravitated towards him as my starter.

[Wobbler]

It's hard to know what to expect from either team, since this is game #1, but I like our continuity on offense and the strong possibility that we've improved our secondary.

[Will]

Saskatchewan will be hungry after losing the east final in the last minute. Ray played very well in the July game against the Riders, but they were able to shut the Argos down for large parts of the October loss and the east final.

[OV Argo]

Bridge was pretty successful against the Argos last season. I would've gravitated towards him as my starter.


Collaros paid huge buck$ = he will be the starter; and have to be real, real bad to be replaced. I think Bridge may well be the better QB now, but if Collaros could regain his outstanding form of a few years ago, the Riders have a real #1 QB. I think their offence will be limited if Collaros still lacks confidence or is rusty. plus Messam is getting on in mileage and not what he once was; their O-line is very questionable IMO; and I don't think they can live off big plays by Duron Carter & Roosevelt = not enough on offence.

And their D does not have proven linebackers - Wilder could run wild ;o)

Argos by 2 TDs or more - should be the result - unless Trestman gets out-coached big-time by E-Jones.

[Wobbler]

Ray played very well in the July game against the Riders...
Another track meet like that would be fun. Hopefully with a different outcome.

[Argo57]

It's hard to know what to expect from either team, since this is game #1, but I like our continuity on offense and the strong possibility that we've improved our secondary.

This is the first “live” action of 2018 for most of our starters which is cause for concern IMO.

[Wobbler]

This is the first “live” action of 2018 for most of our starters which is cause for concern IMO.
I bet Winnipeg wishes they had our problem...

Seriously though, yeah - we might be a bit rusty. Hopefully only for a series or two.

[jerrym]

Opening games after only two preseason games always mean more than the usual number of mistakes by both teams, but the Argos based on talent should prevail.

[paulwoods13]

We'll get the depth chart on Thursday, but in the meantime I've taken a look at the roster and come up with the following predictions:

Prukop, Walker, Jones, Bishop, Sackey and either Bass or Jordan will be added to IR.

46-man roster will be broken down as follows:

DB: 6 INT, 4 NAT (10)
LB: 3 or 4 INT (depending on Bass/Jordan), 2 NAT (5 or 6)
DL: 4 or 5 INT (depending on Bass/Jordan), 3 NAT (7 or 8)
OL: 2 INT, 5 NAT (7)
REC: 3 INT, 4 NAT (7)
FB: 2 NAT (2)
RB: 2 INT (2)
QB: 3 QB (3)
K: I NAT (1)
LS: 1 NAT (1)

From those 46, we will sit one NAT (likely Woodson) and one INT (likely Kanneh).

If this prediction comes true (and it almost certainly won't), we will go with three INT receivers, one INT RB and either two NAT REC or one NAT REC and one NAT FB/HB. Guessing that Williams/Ralph will play WR/SB and Cross/Gingras-Gaston will play FB/HB.

[Argo]

It's hard to know what to expect from either team, since this is game #1, but I like our continuity on offense and the strong possibility that we've improved our secondary.

I expect the Argos to be better on offence and defence and, regardless of special teams play, win the game.

[Wobbler]

Better than Saskatchewan or better than last year? I'd like to believe that our offense will be better than last year, but I don't see evidence for that *yet*.

[jerrym]

With the Riders adding the 2017 league leading sacker Charleston Hughes (11 sacks) and National DT Zack Evans (5 sacks) to DE Willie Jefferson (8 sacks), I expect the Riders to have a strong pressure attack on Ray. How well the Argo OL handle this and the extent to which James Wilder's running can slow down the rush will play a significant role in who wins.

[jerrym]

Losing Coombs to injury again is a bummer but Cross and Ralph showed themselves to be good National receivers last year.

[Stevoman]

Going to be tough starting the season on the road in Regina but do think that the Argos are a solid team. The first 6 weeks look to be the most difficult of the year and I'd be happy with a 3-3 start. Here's hoping win 1 comes this week.

[jerrym]

Ricky Ray describes what he expects to see from Chris Jones' defence:



“He has shown us a few things the last few times we’ve played them,’’ added Ray. “Just different coverages, different looks up front. There was one where he dropped 10 guys into coverage and rushed two.
“He’s going to give you something to see, mix up his coverages very well. He’s got some very athletic guys who line up on defence, one of the most athletic groups we’ll face all year. We just have to go out there like every other game and make sure we’re on top of it.
“They’ll be a lot of zone coverages and we’ll have to be in the right spots, be accurate with the football and be ready for those man coverages and blitzes. For myself, seeing those zero coverages (no safety) and getting it to my hot receiver.”


http://torontosun.com/sports/football/cfl/toronto-argonauts/argonauts-in-good-hands-with-ray-at-quarterback

[Wobbler]

From those 46, we will sit one NAT (likely Woodson) and one INT (likely Kanneh).
What's going on with Woodson? He didn't play in the pre-season, but we haven't 6-gamed him.


If this prediction comes true (and it almost certainly won't), we will go with three INT receivers, one INT RB and either two NAT REC or one NAT REC and one NAT FB/HB. Guessing that Williams/Ralph will play WR/SB and Cross/Gingras-Gaston will play FB/HB.
I'm excited by the possibility that Gingras-Gaston's solid play (http://torontosun.com/sports/football/cfl/toronto-argonauts/argonauts-trade-for-some-of-the-kanneh-do-spirit) may have prompted Trestman to make Cross a starter - at least until Coombs is ready.

[paulwoods13]

I'm excited by the possibility that Gingras-Gaston's solid play (http://torontosun.com/sports/football/cfl/toronto-argonauts/argonauts-trade-for-some-of-the-kanneh-do-spirit) may have prompted Trestman to make Cross a starter - at least until Coombs is ready.

I am now guessing we will see Williams at WR on most snaps, with either Ralph or Charette when we are in a five-receiver set, and either Cross or Gingras-Gaston when we go 4+2. I doubt we'll see Cross and Gingras-Gaston on the field at the same time.

BTW there used to be an NHL player named Gaston (first name) Gingras (last name).

[R.J]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Full depth chart  <a href="https://t.co/jTanwIS3CC">pic.twitter.com/jTanwIS3CC</a></p>&mdash; Toronto Argonauts (@TorontoArgos) <a href="https://twitter.com/TorontoArgos/status/1007293509819396096?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 14, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Your Saskatchewan Roughriders’ depth chart ahead of tomorrow night’s season-opener vs. the <a href="https://twitter.com/TorontoArgos?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@TorontoArgos</a>.<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFL?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#CFL</a> <a href="https://t.co/QwotrNDRrv">pic.twitter.com/QwotrNDRrv</a></p>&mdash; Saskatchewan Roughriders (@sskroughriders) <a href="https://twitter.com/sskroughriders/status/1007297877885050881?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 14, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Will]

In spite of Reed and Woods being out, I am still quite content with the starting three at linebacker.
Gonna be a good test for Darby and Heath.

[Rich]

A nice surprise to see Malcolm Williams at starting WR. I think this guy is a great talent who has paid his dues, maybe he's the one to have a breakout season this year. So it looks like we will have two NAT skill guys on the field at all times this year, somebody shake OV to see if his heart's still beating :-)

[jerrym]

SJ Green will approach this game the way he approaches every game - as if it was his last.



As the Argos embark on their 2018 season, so much will depend on how well Ray is protected, how much of a presence running back James Wilder Jr. emerges for an entirety of a season and how defences cover Green, at least on the offensive side. ...

“I approach every game as if it’s the last game I ever play,” said Green, who signed a new deal with the Argos this past off-season. “It lets you know how every game is important.”

It has been a decade since a team repeated as Grey Cup champions, a feat accomplished by Green when he lined up for Montreal. The Als had Marc Trestman as head coach, Jim Popp as GM and Anthony Calvillo as their starting quarterback, who begins his first season as Toronto’s quarterbacks coach. Complacency begins to infiltrate a locker room when a title is won, but these Argos seem to have that necessary hunger. ...

“I think we’re locked into the process,” said Green. ...

Tyms and Green are brothers-in-law who will line up next to each other.
“It’s a blessing to be on the same professional team with a family member,” said Green. “Guys go through their professional careers playing with guys and making friends along the way, but it’s not often you get to play with a family member. It’s a good opportunity for the both of us and he’s adopted well, he came out here and won a starting job and he’s out here making plays. We’re looking forward to see how it translates on the field (when the lights come on).”

Their relationship allows for an even more open dialogue. “Whether it’s about the game, the offence, we also talk about life outside the game and how much life outside the game affects inside the game,” said Green. “He’s catching on and he’s doing well. I think it’s going to be a break-out year for him and I’m looking forward to watching him flourish."
Tyms certainly has that chance as does Green of putting together another all-star season.


http://torontosun.com/sports/football/cfl/toronto-argonauts/argos-green-treats-every-game-like-its-his-last

[jerrym]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">When you and your friends get together tonight and realize that there&#39;s <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFL?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#CFL</a> 🏈on 📺<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFLKickoff?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#CFLKickoff</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/FortheW?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#FortheW</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/OneEmpire?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#OneEmpire</a> <a href="https://t.co/SC6G2CxODh">pic.twitter.com/SC6G2CxODh</a></p>&mdash; CFL (@CFL) <a href="https://twitter.com/CFL/status/1007346754235322368?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 14, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Jon Gonzo]

Depth chart looks great. Go Argos!

[paulwoods13]

A nice surprise to see Malcolm Williams at starting WR. I think this guy is a great talent who has paid his dues, maybe he's the one to have a breakout season this year. So it looks like we will have two NAT skill guys on the field at all times this year, somebody shake OV to see if his heart's still beating :-)

He was the starter down the stretch last season, once we went with a second INT on the o-line (which was a huge contributor to our success IMO).

[paulwoods13]

We'll get the depth chart on Thursday, but in the meantime I've taken a look at the roster and come up with the following predictions:

Prukop, Walker, Jones, Bishop, Sackey and either Bass or Jordan will be added to IR.

46-man roster will be broken down as follows:

DB: 6 INT, 4 NAT (10)
LB: 3 or 4 INT (depending on Bass/Jordan), 2 NAT (5 or 6)
DL: 4 or 5 INT (depending on Bass/Jordan), 3 NAT (7 or 8)
OL: 2 INT, 5 NAT (7)
REC: 3 INT, 4 NAT (7)
FB: 2 NAT (2)
RB: 2 INT (2)
QB: 3 QB (3)
K: I NAT (1)
LS: 1 NAT (1)

From those 46, we will sit one NAT (likely Woodson) and one INT (likely Kanneh).

If this prediction comes true (and it almost certainly won't), we will go with three INT receivers, one INT RB and either two NAT REC or one NAT REC and one NAT FB/HB. Guessing that Williams/Ralph will play WR/SB and Cross/Gingras-Gaston will play FB/HB.

Not surprisingly, I was wrong about some of these predictions. As for going from 46 to 44, I would bet we will de-activate Walker and either Bishop or Bass this week.

[OV Argo]

He was the starter down the stretch last season, once we went with a second INT on the o-line (which was a huge contributor to our success IMO).

Very seldom thrown too; hopefully that changes at least a bit; IMO big waste of a receiver position if you have next to no faith in the guy to throw to him and the defence can basically ignore him if all he does is run clearing routes.

[ArgoRavi]

Very seldom thrown too; hopefully that changes at least a bit; IMO big waste of a receiver position if you have next to no faith in the guy to throw to him and the defence can basically ignore him if all he does is run clearing routes.

Do you know, OV, whether he was getting open or not?

[OV Argo]

Do you know, OV, whether he was getting open or not?

Nope - did not have an iso camera view of all his plays. But why continue to play a guy if he can't get open? I recall the one game a couple of years back, where Llevi Noel made 2 excellent grabs, including a TD, on one series; you'd think that might lead to more receiver playing time opportunity, but maybe not ? ;o)

[Shatto]

The depth chart looks very promising. Not a lot of changes from the team that won the Cup. Regarding Williams, I have paid attention to him a number of times when watching the games at BMO. He appears to run disciplined routes and comes back to help his QB. He has made good catches the few times he has been targeted.

Personally I would have preferred to see Noel in the RB/SB spot. Ralph and Charette have both performed well in TC and games but Noel is bigger and faster and I would love to see him get a chance to start. That being said, the coaches undoubtedly have good reasons for their personnel decisions and they know the game and players far better than any of us fans.

[jerrym]

I think Williams could develop into a major contributor to the team in time.

[paulwoods13]

I think Williams could develop into a major contributor to the team in time.

Yes he could. And Noel is already a major contributor to the team, as our best ST player.

[Wobbler]

Not surprisingly, I was wrong about some of these predictions. As for going from 46 to 44, I would bet we will de-activate Walker and either Bishop or Bass this week.
I'm a bit surprised to see Sackey as our backup interior lineman instead of Kolankowski. I suppose Sackey must have looked quite good at guard, since he certainly seemed to be behind Kolankowski at center. Well, either that or Kolankowski is actually hurt.

I'll guess that Gaydosh and Bass will sit.

[macspectrum]

in popp we trust
in trestman we believe

[Wobbler]

...at least until the first loss.

[argos1873]

Here we go!!!!

[dmont]

How was that not no yards??

[Wobbler]

Heath... really? It's way too early in the season (and the game) to lose your cool.

[argotom]

Despite the penalty aided drive and it is still early, Collaros looks the same as last year a deer in the headlights.

[jerrym]

Other than Heath's double penalty, the Argo D, especially the DL, is doing a great job.

[Will]

The Argos DL is doing a nice job.
The offence is doing absolutely nothing though

[Will]

Not a great start for the Argos. The front four is playing well, but the secondary is not.

[argotom]

Typically slow start with the offence, Ricky needs to awaken.

[argotom]

I know it's not coach"s style, the next set of downs would be a perfect time to throw in Franklin with a package.

[Will]

I hate to bring this up, but I imagine there will be some second guessing as to the wisdom of not playing any of the starters in either of the preseason games.

[Wobbler]

Huh. Declan Cross and Simon Gingras-Gagnon were just on the field at the same time - is that one of our new double-tight formations?

[RB957]

I hate to bring this up, but I imagine there will be some second guessing as to the wisdom of not playing any of the starters in either of the preseason games.

I was just going to type the same thing. Couldn't agree more. Offence has looked awful.... especially the O -line. We need to score before the end of the 1st half. So what happens, D gives the O a gift and we let them sack Ray. Unbelievable.

[jerrym]

Good job by Tuggle knocking the ball out of Mason's hand, leading to our biggest score, a FG in the opening half.

[Argo57]

I hate to bring this up, but I imagine there will be some second guessing as to the wisdom of not playing any of the starters in either of the preseason games.

As there should be, can’t just flip the switch and expect a crisp performance with zero game reps.

[dmont]

I think I just saw Noah Picton on the Argos sidelines in an argo polo. He was looking at the tablet with Ricky. Who's got the DVR?

Pretty crappy half of football, offense... on one of Wilders few touches, I saw him running with his head up again. Wasn't until he started dropping his head and running straight downhill that he broke out last season.

[jerrym]

I was just going to type the same thing. Couldn't agree more. Offence has looked awful.... especially the O -line. We need to score before the end of the 1st half. So what happens, D gives the O a gift and we let them sack Ray. Unbelievable.

I also agree. The OL is neither creating holes or blocking well. With Wilder not being able to get untracked the Rider DL has become sack happy.

[argotom]

The team and especially the offence needs a spark.

[Will]

The team and especially the offence needs a spark.

Hopefully the forced fumble and recovery starts that.

[ArgoZ]

Only down by ten. Hopefully that half was our pre-season reps and now the second half is for real! O-line studying the tablets during halftime I think.

[ArgoZ]

The team and especially the offence needs a spark.

Or some blocks will suffice. I'm not going to put any blame on our current Grey Cup Champion QB. Collaros doing well, you should be so proud.

[Wobbler]

With Wilder not being able to get untracked...
What track should Wilder be on?

[argotom]

Or some blocks will suffice. I'm not going to put any blame on our current Grey Cup Champion QB. Collaros doing well, you should be so proud.

Right now just worried about the team picking it up and looks like it will again take a 4th quarter effort to come back.

[Wobbler]

The D is rebounding well. Play 96 was a ridiculous stuff.

Your turn, O!

[dmont]

Why are their receivers all alone and our guys have DBs draped all over them???

I don't think collaros has had much more time than Ricky. Collaros just has open receivers.

[argotom]

Nice drive with the first TD of the season.....cue the comeback?

[Will]

Except the defence has been unable to get a quick stop here.

[dmont]

Game.

[argotom]

Bad throw by Ray leads to a pick 6.

[argofan81]

Bad throw by Ray leads to a pick 6.

What just cost us the game was Trestman not challenging for pass interference!!! Pick 6 would NOT have counted!!!

[Will]

Be nice if the Riders did thing something stupid on offence.

Would hate it if the pick-six were the difference here.

[Will]

Sadly the defence isn't able to get the stop the Argos need.

[argotom]

Rough start, expect the team especially the offence needed this game as a tune up.

[argotom]

What just cost us the game was Trestman not challenging for pass interference!!! Pick 6 would NOT have counted!!!

Yes, but it was still a bad lame duck throw.

[Neely2005]

The first half was one of the worst that the Argonauts have played in a long time.

[Will]

It is a 60:00 game not a 30:00. The Argos did play better in the second half, but it obviously wasn't good enough. Slightly disappointing that the D couldn't get the stop on the last drive to give the offence a shot, but back to the drawing board I guess.

[dmont]

Classic early-season Argos. Kickass defense for most of the game, but the offense doesnt show up until the fourth quarter. By then, the defense is exhausted and the game slips away.

Left tackle (Campbell?) Was made to look silly in the first half. They were up against two great DEs, but I hope it's not a sign of things to come.

Wasn't blown away by Heath or Yell.

SJ didnt have much of a game. Tyms wasnt impactful either.

Messam is friggin good..... I would take that guy any day over Wilder (if age weren't a long term factor).

Shame that Trestman didnt throw the flag on the pick six.

[Shatto]

Defense played acceptable football but did not stop the opposition when they really needed to, in the last 2 minutes. Offence was ineffective, especially in the first half. Basically the offense looked very rusty. Makes one wonder if Ray and company shouldn't have got some playing time in the pre-season games.

[ArgoGabe22]

Questionable officiating but Jim Mora said it best....

"We couldn’t do diddly poo offensively, we couldn’t make a first down, we couldn’t run the ball, we didn’t try to run the ball, we couldn’t complete a pass – we sucked."

[OV Argo]

What just cost us the game was Trestman not challenging for pass interference!!! Pick 6 would NOT have counted!!!

This - big-time.

Was probably PI on Green on that duck throw = ref should have thrown a flag + should have been challenged. Cost the game; Argos would have won otherwise.

But what a lame-@ss offensive display; no real run game; only 2 receivers respected in the offence (how's Malcolm Williams looking Ravi? ;o)); Declan Cross should be used way more; porous O-line at times.

[Stevoman]

Aside from not enough offensive production, the mistakes were costly tonight. The pick 6, the non-challenge, and some unfortunate penalties. In short, the Argos looked rusty.

I really liked the roll out of James Franklin and escaping the pressure on his TD pass and also thought James Wilder had some nice catches. Tough one.

[jerrym]

I also agree. The OL is neither creating holes or blocking well. With Wilder not being able to get untracked the Rider DL has become sack happy.


What track should Wilder be on?

It goes with the previous sentence. Wilder can't get untracked if their is very poor blocking as there was for most of the game.

[jerrym]

Good to see Ray start to find his rhythm in the second half. I hope he can bring it into his next game.

[Ron]

Argos showed heart and never gave up against a very good football club.

[paulwoods13]

Quick thoughts after watching the second half on PVR this morning:

I think we are still searching for a replacement for Posey. Tyms had one great game for Hamilton two years ago, and seems like a good depth guy, but I'm not sure he's a legit No. 3 receiver. That is one area of the team where I think depth is lacking. Also, it seems that whenever Coombs is not in the lineup, we struggle offensively -- this dates back to last season and maybe even the year before. Teams can focus on Green, Edwards and Wilder knowing that we don't have a lot of weapons beyond them. Coombs is a unique talent.

On the pick six, it looked to me as if Ricky never got a proper grip on the ball. I wonder if the new ball design had anything to do with that, or he just didn't squeeze it properly before release.

Heath and Yell both had rough first games. Yell needs to get his lid strapped on tighter or he might end up with a concussion -- it flew off twice without direct contact.

The o-line really struggled all night, especially the left side (Campbell and Holmes).

Hopefully Wilder was not seriously hurt on the second-last play of the game. He stayed in for the last play, but was limping pretty badly.

[cfl-cis fan]

Quick thoughts after watching the second half on PVR this morning:

I think we are still searching for a replacement for Posey. Tyms had one great game for Hamilton two years ago, and seems like a good depth guy, but I'm not sure he's a legit No. 3 receiver. That is one area of the team where I think depth is lacking. Also, it seems that whenever Coombs is not in the lineup, we struggle offensively -- this dates back to last season and maybe even the year before. Teams can focus on Green, Edwards and Wilder knowing that we don't have a lot of weapons beyond them. Coombs is a unique talent.

On the pick six, it looked to me as if Ricky never got a proper grip on the ball. I wonder if the new ball design had anything to do with that, or he just didn't squeeze it properly before release.

Heath and Yell both had rough first games. Yell needs to get his lid strapped on tighter or he might end up with a concussion -- it flew off twice without direct contact.

The o-line really struggled all night, especially the left side (Campbell and Holmes).

Hopefully Wilder was not seriously hurt on the second-last play of the game. He stayed in for the last play, but was limping pretty badly.

I fully agree with the statement on Coombs but I believe it is more that we go away from using the "Coombs" plays. Strongly believe the combination of Ralph and Cross can run those plays effectively as well .......... we should at least try it.

[Neely2005]

What just cost us the game was Trestman not challenging for pass interference!!! Pick 6 would NOT have counted!!!

Definitely. That was the turning point.

[Neely2005]

Quick thoughts after watching the second half on PVR this morning:

I think we are still searching for a replacement for Posey. Tyms had one great game for Hamilton two years ago, and seems like a good depth guy, but I'm not sure he's a legit No. 3 receiver. That is one area of the team where I think depth is lacking. Also, it seems that whenever Coombs is not in the lineup, we struggle offensively -- this dates back to last season and maybe even the year before. Teams can focus on Green, Edwards and Wilder knowing that we don't have a lot of weapons beyond them. Coombs is a unique talent.

On the pick six, it looked to me as if Ricky never got a proper grip on the ball. I wonder if the new ball design had anything to do with that, or he just didn't squeeze it properly before release.

Heath and Yell both had rough first games. Yell needs to get his lid strapped on tighter or he might end up with a concussion -- it flew off twice without direct contact.

The o-line really struggled all night, especially the left side (Campbell and Holmes).

Hopefully Wilder was not seriously hurt on the second-last play of the game. He stayed in for the last play, but was limping pretty badly.

Good synopsis. The problem is that Coombs can't stay healthy.

[R.J]

Players were rusty - Trestman was out coached by Jones - defence played really soft zone; which allowed Zach and his receivers to find holes and execute. It's only game one though, and I don't think playing one half of a pre season football game would've helped much. I expect the offensive line to be better shortly (might take more than another game though); which should lead to better execution and production from our offence. Admittedly I'm a little more concerned about the D, but it's only the first game.

[Argo]

Questionable officiating but Jim Mora said it best....

"We couldn’t do diddly poo offensively, we couldn’t make a first down, we couldn’t run the ball, we didn’t try to run the ball, we couldn’t complete a pass – we sucked."

I assume that the running game will become productive (!), but I wonder about the overall quality of the receiving corps... where the receivers getting open?

[Argo]

Players were rusty - Trestman was out coached by Jones - defence played really soft zone; which allowed Zach and his receivers to find holes and execute. It's only game one though, and I don't think playing one half of a pre season football game would've helped much. I expect the offensive line to be better shortly (might take more than another game though); which should lead to better execution and production from our offence. Admittedly I'm a little more concerned about the D, but it's only the first game.

Soft zone... yech... Collaros had success, something he hasn't experienced in quite a while.

[Argo]

Argos showed heart and never gave up against a very good football club.

I would rather the Argos showed (as) a very good football club.

0 - 1

[doubleblue]

To me the first half was kind of Ricky's pre-season and maybe some of the offensive line guys as well. Going to be difficult completing passes going to SJ Green 70% of the time. We need a game breaker like Derel Walker, but they're hard to find out side of the NFL. If Williams can't get open I would like to see Levi Noel get a shot. At least alternate in some. I don't know why they're holding back on him. Can't be just ST's. To me he looks, the little I've seen of him at WR, like one of those guys who can get separation on a DB when the ball's in the air. You can't teach it. Come on Marc you've got the QB who can make it happen.

You have to give the Rider defense some credit though last night. Hughes , Jefferson and their DB's are pretty good IMO. Messam was still being himself even if he was a little lighter. He can still wear down a defense and take the heat off his QB. Which is probably the best thing for Collaros and his confidence right now. I don't think too many people have ever accused Chris Jones of being stupid. He knows how to put a team together.

[Wobbler]

It goes with the previous sentence. Wilder can't get untracked if their is very poor blocking as there was for most of the game.
Untracked isn't a word.

[ArgoRavi]

Untracked isn't a word.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/untrack

[paulwoods13]

Neither Noel nor Williams is the solution at receiver. That position gets few looks in our offence (and every other team's offence in the same-old-same-old CFL). It's the Posey short-side position that seems to be lacking a true deep threat. As good as they are, neither Green nor Edwards is a real speed burner.

[paulwoods13]

I fully agree with the statement on Coombs but I believe it is more that we go away from using the "Coombs" plays. Strongly believe the combination of Ralph and Cross can run those plays effectively as well .......... we should at least try it.

I'd be willing to bet that Ralph runs the exact same pass patterns drawn up for Coombs. For whatever reason -- maybe he doesn't get as open as Coombs, maybe he doesn't have Ricky's confidence yet, maybe he's just not as good as Coombs -- he doesn't see as many passes. As for Cross, I love what he brings but it is not the same as Coombs. He plays a different position and runs differently designed plays.

[jerrym]

To me the first half was kind of Ricky's pre-season and maybe some of the offensive line guys as well.

Getting Ray a little preseason game action might have helped.

[Shatto]

It is difficult to disagree or find fault with any of the comments or analyses in any of the above posts. The comments about the need to add a fast receiver who can stretch the field are IMO bang on. Green runs excellent routes and always seems to win the 50/50 balls, Edwards has proven to be an excellent receiver but is more quick than fast, Wilder is always a threat but none of them provide the blazing speed needed to consistently stretch the field. Tyms is a good receiver but still not the speed merchant the team seems to need.

There are a couple of intriguing WR's on the PR who may eventually find themselves on the active roster before the season goes too far:

Alford has run the 40 in 4.25 and has been described as having elite run-away speed but at 5'8" it possible that the coaching staff might be a little wary of his size in matchups against taller DB's.

Smith at 6'6" and 219 lbs has run 4.43 and may actually be a deep threat as the waggle would allow him to get his long stride moving before he hits the line.

And riding my own hobby horse, I'd love to see Noel get a chance in Coombs spot. He showed his speed in the one KR in the last game. That is not to denigrate either Charett or Ralph, it's just I think Noel would bring more speed and size to that position.

[Will]

Trestman admits he should've challenged on the pick-six.

[Neely2005]

Trestman admits he should've challenged on the pick-six.

Can someone clarify something for me here? I've read all of the following and I'm not sure what is correct.

The Command Centre reviews all scoring plays, so they should have caught this.
The command Centre reviews all turnovers so they should have caught this.
Because the Command Centre automatically reviews these plays Trestman would have gotten a delay of game penalty if he challenged.

[macspectrum]

Why are their receivers all alone and our guys have DBs draped all over them???

I don't think collaros has had much more time than Ricky. Collaros just has open receivers.

argos played way too much zone

[macspectrum]

Trestman admits he should've challenged on the pick-six.
too little, too late

[OV Argo]

Neither Noel nor Williams is the solution at receiver. That position gets few looks in our offence (and every other team's offence in the same-old-same-old CFL). It's the Posey short-side position that seems to be lacking a true deep threat. As good as they are, neither Green nor Edwards is a real speed burner.


Maybe; maybe not. Don't know with pretty well zero evidence or trying.

A lot of CFL teams are afraid of deep passing game & long-bombs; deferring to dink & dunk and check-downs = chicken$hit offence if that's all you got; but the opening week showed some teams trying it and with great success: Derell Walker with a 100+ yard TD; Mike Jones with a 70 yarder for the Ticats (hit in stride on a beauty touch throw by Masoli); Shaq Johnson with a deep TD pass reception for BC (the latter 2 are often little used Canadian receivers); the Stamps were throwing deep lots in the first game too (still a weakness in Mitchell's game IMO - misses open deep receivers way too often) Even the much maligned Drew Willy looked good on a couple of deep throws.

You don't necessarily need a 4.3 forty receiver to throw deep / vertical / long-bombs; you just have to have some vision or guts or diversity in your offence to try it some (just like a good ground game); Llevi Noel or Malcolm Williams or Jimmy Ralph can all get open deep - by running good routes, surprising the defence or victimizing a young DB. Why don't you give it a try Trestman and the offensive "brain-trust" ?

[Joe Barnes]

Can someone clarify something for me here? I've read all of the following and I'm not sure what is correct.

The Command Centre reviews all scoring plays, so they should have caught this.
The command Centre reviews all turnovers so they should have caught this.
Because the Command Centre automatically reviews these plays Trestman would have gotten a delay of game penalty if he challenged.

I was thinking the same thing after it happened. Presumably it was reviewed and the play stood as called on the field.

[jerrym]

Ricky Ray and Ronnie Yell's comments on the game.

https://www.argonauts.ca/2018/06/16/argonauts-post-game-ricky-ray-june-15-2018/

https://www.argonauts.ca/2018/06/16/argonauts-post-game-ronnie-yell-june-15-2018/

[jerrym]

Ronnie Pfeffer has to get better at corner kicks rather than giving teams a chance at a return deep in their end or a single that gives them decent field position, although he was fine on his single FG attempt and excellent on his 48.4 punting average.

[Bleeds Double Blue]

Can someone clarify something for me here? I've read all of the following and I'm not sure what is correct.

The Command Centre reviews all scoring plays, so they should have caught this.
The command Centre reviews all turnovers so they should have caught this.
Because the Command Centre automatically reviews these plays Trestman would have gotten a delay of game penalty if he challenged.

I may be wrong but I don't think the command center can call a penalty unless there was a challenge. If it was challenged and deemed to have been interference then the pick 6 would have been nullified. Is that right? There are a lot of people more versed in this rule than I am. Hopefully one of them can shed some light on this.

[Wobbler]

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/untrack
Ha! Yes, exactly. It's an almost-word propagated by third rate sports commentators.

[Wobbler]

I think we are still searching for a replacement for Posey. Tyms had one great game for Hamilton two years ago, and seems like a good depth guy, but I'm not sure he's a legit No. 3 receiver.
The bar should be higher than that for a boundary WR, I think. No DC (or halfback) is going to forget about SJ Green, but we need to field a scary receiver next to him.

[paulwoods13]

"Untracked" is in the Concise Oxford English Dictionary (1995 edition), which IMO is the definitive dictionary of the English language. However, the meaning has nothing to do with sports teams or players getting out of a slump:

1. not marked with tracks from skis etc. 2. having no previously-trodden track; unexplored. 3. not traced of followed.

So in a sense, you are both right and both wrong.

[Wobbler]

My research was lackadaisical. Please stop misusing it, football fans.

[macspectrum]

i think trestman needs a 'flag' assistant to throw the challenge flag - plus SK had short passes to horizontal runnin RB covered and running plays to wilder covered, but as wilder showed not vertical passes covered very well , but qb needed more time for those routes, either via o-line or qb mobility- argos needed to go vertical much more often - and ray is only getting older and he is not the 2nd coming of qb calvillo

[paulwoods13]

i think trestman needs a 'flag' assistant to throw the challenge flag - plus SK had short passes to horizontal runnin RB covered and running plays to wilder covered, but as wilder showed not vertical passes - argos needed to go vertical much more often - and ray is only getting older and he is not the 2nd coming of qb calvillo

But Wilder might be the second coming of Messam.

[macspectrum]

But Wilder might be the second coming of Messam.
don't think so but messam was prime for picking to go to argos
he reduced his salary to go to green rider and is very hungry for a ring
he's a local GTA boy - very feel good story
messam and wilder would make for great blocking/receiving and a formidable backfield [take pressure off qb] for an ageing qb = ray and a young qb learning the ropes
plus w/ cross in there argos could run a wishbone offence once in a while or trick the defence and throw from it - lots of pass protection
2 out of those 3 are cdn
.
imagine if argos had picked up bridge upon his release from mtl
and if argos started him along w/ cross and messam?
.
something the CFL has never seen !
a cdn backfield !
.
also i think messam would be a great tutor for wilder

[paulwoods13]

Can't say I didn't ask for it.

[argolio]

I think the biggest difference in the game was that our o-line took too long to get a handle on their speed.