Famous Ex-NFLers that found their way to the Argos...

[Tobin Rote]

I don't generally start many threads on here... but I thought that this one might create a bit of fun.

I'll start things off with one... former Dallas Cowboy "Mad Bomber"... QB Clint Longley.

[paulwoods13]

I have a number 12 game-worn jersey from 1977 or 1978 that might have been worn by Clint Longley.

[jerrym]

Your namesake is an obvious one.

[Tobin Rote]

Hey... you're right. Hahaha!

[OV Argo]

Andre Rison and Ricky Williams are probably 2 of the most famous (& accomplished) NFL players to end up suiting up for the Argos.

Argo first and then on to good NFL players ... Joe Theissman, Eric Harris, Bruce Clark, Rocket Ismail - as some prominent examples.

[jerrym]

Canadian Tommy Kane was another NFL player who also played for the Argos. He had a couple of good years with the Seattle Seahawks before ankle and knee injuries limited his skills. He then played five games with the Argos in 1994, before becoming famous for another reason - being convicted of manslaughter in the stabbing death of his estranged wife.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Kane

[ArgoRavi]

Andre Rison and Ricky Williams are probably 2 of the most famous (& accomplished) NFL players to end up suiting up for the Argos.

Argo first and then on to good NFL players ... Joe Theissman, Eric Harris, Bruce Clark, Rocket Ismail - as some prominent examples.

Don't forget about Noah Jackson, OV.

[Bleeds Double Blue]

Doug Flutie.

[ArgoFan1]

Andre Rison !!!! a bust, as usual with so many of them

[paulwoods13]

Mike Wilson had a very solid career with Cincinnati after initially playing for Toronto. He was half of the so-called Georgia Connection, along with Joel Parrish -- two big 0-linemen Leo recruited in his second go-round as head coach. Parrish didn't do much and went on to a drug bust, IIRC. Another who went on to the NFL was slotback M.L. Harris, also with Cincinnati. And long snapper JP Darche had a very long NFL career after one season in Toronto.

[Tobin Rote]

There are certainly more cases of guys that started out here... and then went on to play in the NFL.

I am surprised that no one has mentioned Terry Metcalf. Maybe many of you on this board can't remember him.

IMHO... that might have been the biggest ever signing by the Argonauts (Rocket Ismail notwithstanding). Metcalf was an NFL free agent... coming off setting a league record for total yards gained running, receiving and returning kicks. The Argos jumped in and brought him north... much to the surprise of everyone in the NFL.

The fact that the Argos were capable of stealing players (mostly draft choices) from the NFL during the late Sixties and throughout the Seventies really marked the golden age of football in Toronto (in terms of popularity - we never really won anything). It made the team (and the CFL) seem "Big League"... Torontonians seem to need that. Then the Blue Jays came to town... the CFL adopted a salary cap... and NFL salaries grew to the point where our teams couldn't even compete for their Practice Roster players... I guess that we're still trying to overcome a minor league image held by many in this town toward Canadian football.

Sometimes I wonder if the CFL could do what MLS does... permit 2 or 3 designated players not to count against the salary cap. Current ownership can certainly afford to play that game.

[jerrym]

Willie Wood is a member of the Pro Football Hall of Fame who played safety for the Green Bay Packers from 1960 to 1971 after going undrafted. He later became the first Black HC in pro football in the modern era with the Philadelphia Bell of the World Football League (WFL) and the first Black HC in the CFL with the Toronto Argos in 1981.

[OV Argo]

There are certainly more cases of guys that started out here... and then went on to play in the NFL.

I am surprised that no one has mentioned Terry Metcalf. Maybe many of you on this board can't remember him.

IMHO... that might have been the biggest ever signing by the Argonauts (Rocket Ismail notwithstanding). Metcalf was an NFL free agent... coming off setting a league record for total yards gained running, receiving and returning kicks. The Argos jumped in and brought him north... much to the surprise of everyone in the NFL.

The fact that the Argos were capable of stealing players (mostly draft choices) from the NFL during the late Sixties and throughout the Seventies really marked the golden age of football in Toronto (in terms of popularity - we never really won anything). It made the team (and the CFL) seem "Big League"... Torontonians seem to need that. Then the Blue Jays came to town... the CFL adopted a salary cap... and NFL salaries grew to the point where our teams couldn't even compete for their Practice Roster players... I guess that we're still trying to overcome a minor league image held by many in this town toward Canadian football.

Sometimes I wonder if the CFL could do what MLS does... permit 2 or 3 designated players not to count against the salary cap. Current ownership can certainly afford to play that game.


You're right about Metcalf - probably the biggest name NFL star the Argos ever managed to drag up here - I was amazed back in the day to see an NFL star in his prime come to the CFL (money in the 2 leagues was a lot closer back then), and Terry played hard and with skill on those pretty lousy Argo teams. The Rocket was a big college ball star when the Argos got him, but unproven in the pros/ no NFL experience.

Rick Razzano was an Argo linebacker who went on the the Bengals (and i think started in a SB game for them, along with another ex-Argo Mike Wilson (O-line * edit* - Razzano, Wilson and ML Harris were 3 former Argos who played in that Bengals 81 season SB game - coached by Forrest Gump Gregg). Earl Wilson was a very good D-linemen for the Argos for a few seasons (including the historic 83 drought killing win) - who went on to a couple of good seasons for the Chargers in the NFL.

Hank Illeisc punted for both the Argos and the NFL Chargers in the same season (89) ! My memory is not so good - Ravi or Paul - what happened there? - Hank got cut by the Argos cause they didn't like him or did they just let him out to go the NFL ?

[ArgoRavi]

You're right about Metcalf - probably the biggest name NFL star the Argos ever managed to drag up here - I was amazed back in the day to see an NFL star in his prime come to the CFL (money in the 2 leagues was a lot closer back then), and Terry played hard and with skill on those pretty lousy Argo teams. The Rocket was a big college ball star when the Argos got him, but unproven in the pros/ no NFL experience.

Rick Razzano was an Argo linebacker who went on the the Bengals (and i think started in a SB game for them, along with another ex-Argo Mike Wilson (O-line * edit* - Razzano, Wilson and ML Harris were 3 former Argos who played in that Bengals 81 season SB game - coached by Forrest Gump Gregg). Earl Wilson was a very good D-linemen for the Argos for a few seasons (including the historic 83 drought killing win) - who went on to a couple of good seasons for the Chargers in the NFL.

Hank Illeisc punted for both the Argos and the NFL Chargers in the same season (89) ! My memory is not so good - Ravi or Paul - what happened there? - Hank got cut by the Argos cause they didn't like him or did they just let him out to go the NFL ?

My memory is that the Argos let Ilesic go during the 1989 CFL season to sign with the Chargers. He ended up returning to Toronto midway through the 1990 season IIRC. Glenn Harper was the punter whom Ilesic replaced in 1990.

[jerrym]

For younger fans with whom Terry Metcalf does not ring a bell, he was a triple threat who set a NFL then record of 2,457 combined yards in 1975 with the St. Louis Cardinals and played for the Argos from 1978 to 1980.

[paulwoods13]

My memory is that the Argos let Ilesic go during the 1989 CFL season to sign with the Chargers. He ended up returning to Toronto midway through the 1990 season IIRC. Glenn Harper was the punter whom Ilesic replaced in 1990.

That is essentially correct -- he was released in September 1989 to go to the NFL, and was re-signed in October 1990. He played 13 games for the Chargers in 1989, was released and signed with the Rams, who released him in 1990 preseason. I believe Ilesic probably could have had a long NFL career but he chose to stay in Canada. There's great footage in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hbaaa4JSYwY

[paulwoods13]

For younger fans with whom Terry Metcalf does not ring a bell, he was a triple threat who set a NFL then record of 2,457 combined yards in 1975 with the St. Louis Cardinals and played for the Argos from 1978 to 1980.

Metcalf's signing in 1978 was incredibly exciting to Argo fans. Back when it was hard to find decent replica jerseys for any team in any sport, there were a lot of Argo 21 jerseys in circulation (I still have two of them). Metcalf gave his all for some very lousy Argo teams. He had a spectacular debut game in 1978 but then fell victim to bad o-lines and bad offensive schemes. He has admitted turning to drugs after his career ended. I've heard rumours he was already going in a bad direction by the end of the 1980 season, and the organization felt it had no choice but to usher him out the door. He and Cedric Minter (who had idolized him) actually crossed paths briefly on the day when Minter arrived in Toronto in the spring of 1981. Fortunately Metcalf eventually rehabbed and got his life back together.

[AngeloV]

Metcalf's signing in 1978 was incredibly exciting to Argo fans. Back when it was hard to find decent replica jerseys for any team in any sport, there were a lot of Argo 21 jerseys in circulation (I still have two of them). Metcalf gave his all for some very lousy Argo teams. He had a spectacular debut game in 1978 but then fell victim to bad o-lines and bad offensive schemes. He has admitted turning to drugs after his career ended. I've heard rumours he was already going in a bad direction by the end of the 1980 season, and the organization felt it had no choice but to usher him out the door. He and Cedric Minter (who had idolized him) actually crossed paths briefly on the day when Minter arrived in Toronto in the spring of 1981. Fortunately Metcalf eventually rehabbed and got his life back together.

Metcalf was one of the first players I idolized as a kid, and was unfairly labeled a bust. As you said, the team and coaching around him was brutal.

[gilthethrill]

Metcalf's signing in 1978 was incredibly exciting to Argo fans. Back when it was hard to find decent replica jerseys for any team in any sport, there were a lot of Argo 21 jerseys in circulation (I still have two of them). Metcalf gave his all for some very lousy Argo teams. He had a spectacular debut game in 1978 but then fell victim to bad o-lines and bad offensive schemes. He has admitted turning to drugs after his career ended. I've heard rumours he was already going in a bad direction by the end of the 1980 season, and the organization felt it had no choice but to usher him out the door. He and Cedric Minter (who had idolized him) actually crossed paths briefly on the day when Minter arrived in Toronto in the spring of 1981. Fortunately Metcalf eventually rehabbed and got his life back together.

That Terry Metcalfe jersey in the Simpson Sears catalogue is the reason I became an Argo fan. Got it for my birthday during one of my 8th grade years. Just fell in love with the Oxford Blue and White stripes on the sleeves.

[Tobin Rote]

Just thought of another ex-NFL quarterback that played up here in the late seventies. Tony Adams was a 3 year starter for the Utah State Aggies and was selected in the 1973 NFL draft. He chose to sign with the fledgling World Football League (Southern California Sun) instead... as was named one of the new league's co-MVPs in 1974. Following his rookie season, Adams signed with the Kansas City Chiefs and remained on their roster as a sometime starter for 4 seasons. In 1979, he joined the Argos amid some fanfare... and played pretty well during his first season in Canada. Season two didn't go nearly as well... and he returned to the NFL to complete his professional career in 1981.

[paulwoods13]

Adams was loathed by Argo fans for having a high completion percentage and low yards per pass. He was ahead of his time, in a way.

[Tobin Rote]

Adams was loathed by Argo fans for having a high completion percentage and low yards per pass. He was ahead of his time, in a way.

Kind of a "North Coast" offense then...

[Will]

He did not make the team, but Lee Woodall had tried out for the Argos in 2006 or 2007. He had made the Pro Bowl twice in 1995 and 1997 for the 49ers.

David Boston had a "cup of coffee" with the Argos in 2008. He was a 1,500 yard receiver with the Arizona Cardinals in the early 2000's.

[Jon Gonzo]

Cory Greenwood, one of our most recent examples. Too bad for injuries, cos he was a gamer

Claude Wroten comes to mind as one of those DL beasts, who comes to visit, ever so briefly. He was a 3rd Round pick of the LA Rams.

And Ahmad Carroll was good for us in a Grey Cup Year - 2012. He was a 1st Rounder of the Packers, and played for the Jets and the Jags.

[Jon Gonzo]

Patrick Watkins, who started 9 games for the Cowboys (5th Round Pick) and then played teams for the Chargers

[Jon Gonzo]

I recall getting both Jonathan Brown and Jordon Younger, both friends who came in at the same time from the NFL and improved the Argo team right away. (2004)

[ArgoGabe22]

PK Sam was pretty good. And Bethal Johnson was not.

[argolio]

That is essentially correct -- he was released in September 1989 to go to the NFL, and was re-signed in October 1990. He played 13 games for the Chargers in 1989, was released and signed with the Rams, who released him in 1990 preseason. I believe Ilesic probably could have had a long NFL career but he chose to stay in Canada. There's great footage in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hbaaa4JSYwYImagine the outrage over a September release to go the NFL if this forum was around back then!

[OV Argo]

Metcalf was one of the first players I idolized as a kid, and was unfairly labeled a bust. As you said, the team and coaching around him was brutal.

Metcalf and Tom Cousineau were two of my big fave big American names who came up to the CFL back in the day - both outstanding football players and both sort of their own guy/freaks (both sported diamond earrings). And they had that all-American seal of approval.

Now - Johnny Manzier is one of my heroes. ;o)

IMO it's too bad that the CFL and a lot of fans have never really anticipated & promoted top notch Canadian talent (and some from the Canadian football system) who might come to the CFL and become star players; guys like Fantuz or Cornish or Muamba or Pruneau - coulda maybe had some CFL fans really looking forward to them playing in the league. But not to be / not gonna ever happen probably. Laval DE Matthieu Betts (CIS all-star from rookie on in and already 2 time Metras winner) is arguably one of the best Canadian defensive prospects to be up for a CFL draft in decades; but a huge majority of CFL fans probably never heard of the guy and likely won't till maybe close to draft time. Very little hype for Canadian football talent.

[jerrym]

Dave Mann played for the Chicago Cardinals (later the St. Louis and Arizona Cardinals) of the NFL for three years from 1955 to 1957 where he showed the versatility as a punter, running back and special team player that also marked his career as an Argonaut. In his best game as a Cardinal, Dave rushed for 108 yards against the Chicago Bears (https://fs64sports.blogspot.com/2010/11/1955-cardinals-hand-bears-key-defeat-in.html)

As an Argo he was an outstanding running back, receiver (leading the East in receiving in 1960 and 1961), defensive back, punter (with a career punting average of 44.2 yards and the second longest punt in CFL history of 102 yards), and towards the end of his career he also kicked off and did place kicking.




If you knew Dave Mann at the end of his career, you might think of him as a pretty good punter. Which he was. What you might not know is that Dave Mann at the start of his career was an oustanding offensive and defensive halfback. Dave Mann started his career in the NFL, playing three seasons (1955-57) with the Chicago Bears. Mann was never the #1 running back, but he put up a 336 yards rushing in 1955 with 4 touchdowns while catching 16 passes for another 137 yards and a touchdown. Oh yeah, he also did the punting for those three years.

Mann came north to Toronto and the CFL in 1958 and had 107 carries for 556 yards with another 319 yards on 33 catches. Putting another bullet in the "he was jsut a kicker" myth is 17 kickoff returns for 351 yards and a 116 yard punt return for a TD. Mann didn't play in 1959, but returned to the Argos in 1960 and spent another 11 years in Toronto until his retirement after the 1970 season.

1960 was Mann's best season in the CFL. He didn't rush the ball as much with only 37 carries for 217 yards but he led the East in pass receiving (catches and yards) with 61 catches for 1380 yards and 13 tochdowns. And those numbers were in a 14 game season! In 1961, Mann again led he East in receiving with 53 catches for 659 yards. Mann was named an East All-Star at Flanker for both 1960 and 1961 (there were no CFL All-Stars until 1962). Mann's use on offense fell off after that with 39 catches in 1962 and only 11 in 1963.

After that, Mann saw almost no action on offense. Through his entire career, Mann continued to be the Argo punter and never averaged below 41 yards a punt in any season. In fact in only two years was he below 42 yards a punt. Mann's career high was a 46.8 yard average in 1967 with a 46.7 in 1969 being a close runner-up. Towards the end of his career, Mann also took on the kickoff and placekicking duties for the Argos. If you need any more proof of Mann's versatility, go back to his first season in the CFL, when he also played defense and recorded 4 interceptions.


http://www.cflapedia.com/Players/m/mann_dave.htm

[Shipyard]

Tobin Rote probably the biggest name after Ricky Williams

[doubleblue]

Dave Mann played for the Chicago Cardinals (later the St. Louis and Arizona Cardinals) of the NFL for three years from 1955 to 1957 where he showed the versatility as a punter, running back and special team player that also marked his career as an Argonaut. In his best game as a Cardinal, Dave rushed for 108 yards against the Chicago Bears (https://fs64sports.blogspot.com/2010/11/1955-cardinals-hand-bears-key-defeat-in.html)

As an Argo he was an outstanding running back, receiver (leading the East in receiving in 1960 and 1961), defensive back, punter (with a career punting average of 44.2 yards and the second longest punt in CFL history of 102 yards), and towards the end of his career he also kicked off and did place kicking.




http://www.cflapedia.com/Players/m/mann_dave.htm

I don't remember Dave Mann rushing the ball that much because they had Dick Shatto at the time, but the stats are there. Became a great receiver hooking up with Tobin Rote. He became one of those naturalized Canadians later in his CFL career which probably added years to his time with the Argos as just a punter.

[Argo57]

Don’t forget Chris Schultz (Dallas Cowboys).

[ArgoGabe22]

Might be adding Dexter McCluster to this list soon?

[Foxhound]

I am surprised that no one has mentioned Terry Metcalf. Maybe many of you on this board can't remember him.

IMHO... that might have been the biggest ever signing by the Argonauts (Rocket Ismail notwithstanding). Metcalf was an NFL free agent... coming off setting a league record for total yards gained running, receiving and returning kicks. The Argos jumped in and brought him north... much to the surprise of everyone in the NFL.

I remember that very clearly. I also remember thinking at the time that all the Argo high profile signings were naught but publicity stunts and this one wouldn't pay off either. And I was right. The numbers he recorded were in general disappointing.


Metcalf also played three full seasons in the Canadian Football League with the Toronto Argonauts (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_Argonauts). In 1978, he rushed 169 times for 669 yards, and caught 31 passes. In 1979, he carried the ball 141 times for 691 yards and caught 55 passes, and in his final year, 1980, he rushed for 540 yards and caught 51 passes. While he was a division all star in 1979, his rushing average is below the 5 yards per carry expected by a good running back in the CFL (with its three down game) and his performance in Toronto was seen as underwhelming.

[Argo57]

I remember that very clearly. I also remember thinking at the time that all the Argo high profile signings were naught but publicity stunts and this one wouldn't pay off either. And I was right. The numbers he recorded were in general disappointing.




[/FONT]

Those results aren’t on Metcalf, talented player who played on some dreadful Argonaut teams.

[Tobin Rote]

Those results aren’t on Metcalf, talented player who played on some dreadful Argonaut teams.

That's probably right.