It's time for Argo Fans to get Cookie Gilchrist into the CFL Hall of Fame [Archive]

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jerrym

07-09-2018, 08:45 PM

Cookie Gilchrist was an all-star both north and south of the border, playing both ways in the CFL. Arriving in Canada in 1954 from high school because he had signed a professional contract with the Cleveland Browns that was against NFL rules, he played in the Ontario Football Rugby Football Union for two years. In the CFL he was an All-Star every year from 1956 to 1960, including with the Argos in 1959 and 1960, and was runner-up for the CFL Most Outstanding Player Award in 1960. In the American Football League, he was the first ever 1,000 yard rusher in the league in 1962. He was picked as the fullback on the All-Time American Football League Team.

Gilchrist was also a civil rights activist. He led a successful boycott of the AFL All-Star game in 1965 because it was to be held in New Orleans, where racial restrictions were still common.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cookie_Gilchrist

The Wikipedia article on him says he turned down induction into the CFL Hall of Fame. However there is another side to this story. After his death in 2011,

The Waterloo Region Record posted a fascinating piece (http://www.therecord.com/living/article/500427--remembering-cookie-gilchrist) on Gilchrist Friday (link via (http://scratchingpost.thespec.com/2011/03/remembering-ticats-great-cookie-gilchrist-cfl.html) Drew Edwards (http://twitter.com/scratchingpost)), written by Kitchener resident Larry Scholtis, whose family Gilchrist boarded with during his time playing for the semipro Kitchener-Waterloo Dutchmen. Scholtis was a young kid at the time, but he has many powerful memories of growing up around Gilchrist, and they kept in touch for decades afterwards. The whole piece is well worth a read, but the most interesting part of it is what Gilchrist told Scholtis about the Hall of Fame controversy:
It has been reported Cookie turned down induction to the Canadian Football League Hall of Fame in Hamilton. But he told me he never actually said no to being inducted.
John Agro, then counsel for Canadian Football League Players Association, had informed Cookie about his nomination to the hall, then told him to be nice to Jake Gaudar [sic], then commissioner of the league. Cookie said he would take it "under advisement" because of his strained relationship with Gaudar [sic]. Today, the hall of fame is missing one of game's greatest players and continues to embarrass itself by not inducting him.

Thus, according to that piece, Gilchrist never rejected the Hall of Fame. Instead, he told the CFLPA he would take being nice to Gaudaur (who he clashed with when Gaudaur was the Tiger-Cats' president and GM) "under advisement," and that was enough to keep him from being inducted? Obviously, that's quite the story, and there are many who would take it with a grain of salt; Scholtis may have misremembered some crucial detail, or Gilchrist may not have told him the complete story. Upon a further reading of Earl McRae's excellent piece (http://www.ottawasun.com/news/columnists/earl_mcrae/2010/01/23/12589641.html) on Gilchrist, though, it looks like there's some support for this. Here's part of what Gilchrist e-mailed McRae in 2010:
"My throat cancer is in remission, my weight is the same. Tell Kaye Vaughan and the crew those days were the greatest in my life. I have great respect for every Canadian Football Player who played with and against me.
"I loved Canada and the Canadian people. However Canada does not love Cookie Gilchrist. And I never turned down the Hall Of Fame. When John Agro told me to be nice to Jake Gaudaur, when he told me I was nominated to be inducted, I told Jake I would take that under advisement, and he or they made a lie out of it. Adolf Hitler said the truth when he said the bigger the lie, the more people believe it.
"What is my crime? I never robbed, raped, stolen, lied, cheated, sold drugs, beat my wife or children. So. Why did the country treat me as a persona non grata from 1956 to 2010? But it's okay, I know how to deal with all the players now. It will all come out in the production of my life story once all the T's are crossed and the I's dotted.

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/cfl-55-yard-line/did-cookie-gilchrist-really-turn-down-hall-fame.html

I say it's time to lobby to get Cookie where he belongs - the CFL Hall of Fame.

paulwoods13

07-10-2018, 09:20 AM

I say it's time to lobby to get Cookie where he belongs - the CFL Hall of Fame.

For the record, it is the Canadian Football Hall of Fame, not the CFL Hall of Fame. (Not that that undercuts your premise, but this mistake gets made a lot by fans.)

jerrym

07-10-2018, 03:46 PM

Thanks for the correction Paul. I would argue that the being the Canadian Football Hall of Fame strengthens the argument for naming Gilchrist to it as he played two years in the semipro Ontario Rugby Football Union (ORFU) with the Sarnia Imperials and Kitchener-Waterloo Dutchmen where he starred in 1954-55 before joining what would become the CFL with the Hamilton Tiger Cats in 1956 and later the Saskatchewan Roughriders and Argos in 1959. ORFU was a good enough league to win several Grey Cups: Hamilton Alerts (1912); Toronto Balmy Beach (1927 and 1930); Sarnia Imperials (1934 and 1936); Toronto RCAF Hurricanes (1942); and Hamilton Wildcats (1943). In 1950 the Hamilton Wildcats and Hamilton Tigers of the ORFU merged to form the Hamilton Tiger Cats. The Toronto Argos were also members of the ORFU from 1898 to 1906. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_Rugby_Football_Union)

After failing to make the Cleveland Browns in TC straight out of high school, he headed to Canada and the ORFU Sarnia Imperials. The following article describes his outstanding play there, including against players who had played in the NFL (QB Bob Celeri), AFL (QB Gino Cappeletti), and CFL (Bobby Kuntz and Bill Graham). I've quoted from the article to indicate the quality of play there, where he starred as kid out of high school. Being the Canadian Football Hall of Fame, means his outstanding ORFU career should also be taken into consideration in determining that he belongs there. The article then goes on to describe Cookie's career in the CFL and AFL for those who wish to read it.

Cookie Gilchrist played in 11 games and led the league in rushing (118 carries for 945 yards and 8touchdowns), was second in scoring with 73 points and was named to the 1954 Canadian Press Senior ORFU All-Star Team at halfback. Gilchrist, who wore number 27, was voted the winner of the JimmyShanks Memorial Trophy as the Most Outstanding Player on the Sarnia Imperials.

Cookie was valuable to the Imperials for a number of reasons, he kicked field goals (one a 45 yarder),boomed kickoffs, played defensive halfback and led his team in rushing and scoring. Keep in mind thatthe Canadian League has three downs, not four, touchdowns were 5 points (at that time), not 6 and thefield was 110 yards (goal-line to goal-line), not 100. Unfortunately Cookie couldn't do it all himself and theImps suffered two straight losses, one in overtime, to the Dutchies in the playoffs. ...

[In 1955 he] headed for [ORFU's] Kitchener-Waterloo to play with theDutchmen.

Cookie starred for the "Greens" in the Green-White intra-squad game on August 12th by setting up thewinning score with a 60 yard run with a couple minutes remaining in the game. The whites were led byquarterback Bob Celeri, the former NFLer and the Senior ORFU MVP award winner in 1954.

The Dutchies played an exhibition game against the semi-pro champion Buffalo Bills on August 19th andGilchrist made big gains on "sweeps" as did his running mates while on their way to a 60-0 drubbing.Then on September 21 against the Imps Gilchrist picked up a loose ball and went 80 yards to score. Theloose ball was the result of a poor handoff by Imp quarterback Gino Cappelletti, who would later star inthe AFL for the Boston Patriots. ...

Cookie Gilchrist finished the season as the league rushing champion with 129 carries for 806 yards and10 touchdowns and third in scoring with 61 points (behind teammate Bill Graham with 71 points and GinoCappelletti with 63 points) and was named to the 1955 Canadian Press Senior ORFU All-Star Team athalfback for the second year in a row. While Cookie did not win the Auchterlonie Memorial Trophy as theteam MVP, that went to Bobby Kuntz, he again was a tremendous threat with the ball, a super kickoffman, ferocious on defense and a champion.

http://profootballresearchers.com/archives/Website_Files/Coffin_Corner/24-02-933.pdf

Foxhound

07-11-2018, 10:58 AM

Why did the country treat me as a persona non grata from 1956 to 2010?

I wonder what made Cookie think all of Canada was against him? I know he had problems with management at several clubs, but in those days management liked to treat all players as hired serfs. These days of course star players are typically treated like pampered movie stars/celebrities.

But don't get me wrong. I'm a great fan of Cookie Gilchrist. Not only did he play for the Argonauts from 1959 to 1961, but he also played for the Sarnia Imperials and the Kitchener-Waterloo Dutchmen of the fabled O.R.F.U. In fact I'm so much of a fan of Cookie Gilchrist that I started this TSN CFL Fantasy League in his honour:

Chester's Cookies (https://fantasy-api.cfl.ca/en/league_invitation?league_id=3421&code=c0c905bd-1887-47ac-b0d5-ec127e41fd07)

https://d3ham790trbkqy.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/sites/8/2011/01/14214017/Gilchrist_Cookie5035.jpg

:D

jerrym

07-13-2018, 01:59 AM

I'm a great fan of Cookie Gilchrist. Not only did he play for the Argonauts from 1959 to 1961, but he also played for the Sarnia Imperials and the Kitchener-Waterloo Dutchmen of the fabled O.R.F.U. In fact I'm so much of a fan of Cookie Gilchrist that I started this TSN CFL Fantasy League in his honour:

Chester's Cookies (https://fantasy-api.cfl.ca/en/league_invitation?league_id=3421&code=c0c905bd-1887-47ac-b0d5-ec127e41fd07)

Thanks for the information on your website and support for Cookie.

jerrym

07-13-2018, 02:49 AM

At the end of June, at the age of 82 Willie O'Ree, the first Black player in the NHL, was elected to the Hockey Hall of Fame although he only played in 45 games in the NHL starting in 1957-58. Overall, he scored only 4 goals and 10 assists. There are definite differences from what happened to Cookie, the most obvious being the history of being the first Black in a league. However, like the CFL and Cookie, O'Ree's contributions to hockey were overlooked for decades. O'Ree overcame being legally blind in one eye due to being hit by a puck in the eye at age seventeen to have a 22 year, mostly minor league career outside the NHL and has acted as a hockey ambassador of diversity for decades. It was Black players pushing to get O'Ree into the Hockey Hall of Fame that made the difference.

Sansom said it's that can-do attitude that has gotten O'Ree so many supporters who wrote letters to be included in the Hall of Fame submission.
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Among them: Karl Subban, whose five kids include sons P.K. (Nashville Predators), Malcolm (Las Vegas Golden Knights) and Jordan (AHL Utica Comets).
"Willie stepped on the ice with the Boston Bruins in 1958, the year when I was born, and made hockey history. He is a pioneer and a trailblazer. Willie achieved in the face of adversity. He changed the game and he changed society and he changed minds," Subban wrote.

http://www.timescolonist.com/willie-o-ree-nhl-s-first-black-player-hopes-for-hockey-hall-of-fame-call-1.23347718

Cookie's 1751 rushing yards straight out of high school in two years in Ontario Rugby Football Union (ORFU), his 4,911 yards rushing in the CFL, and his 4,293 yards rushing in the AFL, as well as his selection as the AFL's All-Time Fullback, should be taken into account in considering his nomination to Canadian Football Hall of Fame, just as O'Ree's career outside the NHL was. Just as O'Ree's contribution to diversity in sport was taken into in his selection, so should Cookie's bringing about the successful boycott of the AFL All-Star game in New Orleans in 1965 due to widespread racial discrimination in the city. No one would ever said that Cookie was a diplomat, like O'Ree, but, heh, he was a crash-bang fullback - what do you expect?

Due to support from fans and players, the Hockey Hall of Fame decided to place Willie O'Ree in the Hockey Hall of Fame after decades of ignoring his contributions to hockey. Whatever the problems he had with Jake Gaudaur, as his GM in Hamilton or as CFL Commissioner, those days are long gone and his contributions to football still shine through today. It's time that fans and players pushed to get Cookie in the the Canadian Football Hall of Fame.

Foxhound

07-13-2018, 11:17 AM

argolio

07-13-2018, 06:39 PM

Sadly the article in Wikipedia doesn't include stats from his two years in the ORFU
Do stats from that league even exist?

jerrym

07-13-2018, 08:14 PM

Do stats from that league even exist?

I could not find ORFU stats for Gilchrist on the internet but that doesn't mean they don't exist. Brian Marshall does give Cookie's stats for his two years in the ORFU with Sarnia in 1954 and Kitchener-Waterloo in 1955 in his article on Gilchrist on profootballresearchers.com

Cookie landed in Sarnia, Ontario with the Sarnia Imperials of the Senior ORFU (Ontario Rugby FootballUnion) and successfully displayed his wares to the coaching staff to become a member of the team. TheORFU regular season was comprised of 12 games which for the Imps began on August 25th against theKitchener-Waterloo Dutchmen and ended on October 31st against the Toronto Balmy Beaches. ...

Cookie Gilchrist played in 11 games and led the league in rushing (118 carries for 945 yards and 8touchdowns), was second in scoring with 73 points and was named to the 1954 Canadian Press SeniorORFU All-Star Team at halfback.

Gilchrist reported to the Sarnia Imperials training camp on Friday, July 29, 1955, and was cut from theteam on Saturday, July 30. Then Cookie was slapped him with the hotel bill that the team was apparentlypaying for. Gilchrist was cleared by a Sarnia court and headed for Kitchener-Waterloo to play with theDutchmen. ...

CookieGilchrist finished the season as the league rushing champion with 129 carries for 806 yards and10 touchdowns and third in scoring with 61 points (behind teammate Bill Graham with 71 points and GinoCappelletti with 63 points) and was named to the 1955 Canadian Press Senior ORFU All-Star Team athalfback for the second year in a row. While Cookie did not win the Auchterlonie Memorial Trophy as theteam MVP, that went to Bobby Kuntz, he again was a tremendous threat with the ball, a super kickoffman, ferocious on defense and a champion.

http://profootballresearchers.com/archives/Website_Files/Coffin_Corner/24-02-933.pdf

jerrym

07-13-2018, 08:35 PM

Gilchrist also faced considerable discrimination that even sabotaged his return to the NFL because he had a white girlfriend. The Cleveland Browns offered to bring him back to the NFL after his 1956 season with the Hamilton Tiger Cats but insisted he give up his white girlfriend. He refused to do so and stayed in Canada. This is described in Andrew Bucholtz's review of Chris Garbarino and Cookie's book The Cookie That Did Not Crumble.

Sports books often don't break much new ground, and that's particularly true in the case of books "written" by athletes or coaches (but really pencilled by the scribes who co-author them). The Cookie That Did Not Crumble, an enthralling new book (http://cookiegilchrist.com/book/) by CFL and AFL legend Cookie Gilchrist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cookie_Gilchrist) and co-author Chris Garbarino, is a refreshing exception to that rule. ...

The CFL portions of the book are notable for their inclusion and detail as well. Given the higher-profile nature of Gilchrist's time in the AFL with the Buffalo Bills (who he's seen playing for at right), Denver Broncos and Miami Dolphins and his amazing encounters with everyone from KFC's Harland David "Colonel" Sanders to U.S. President Lyndon B. Johnson, it would have been tempting for many authors to gloss over Gilchrist's early days and jump to the point when he caught the attention of the American public. Garbarino doesn't do that, though, and the book is much better for it; rather than merely being a listing of Gilchrist's most famous accomplishments, it's a thorough look at his different experiences and how they shaped him.

Speaking of those experiences, the book brings up several issues many CFL and NFL fans may not be aware of, particularly with regards to how much of a role racism may have played in the leagues' early days. Gilchrist reports being called various racial slurs throughout his 1955 season with the semipro Kitchener-Waterloo Dutchmen, and those followed him throughout much of his playing career. There was substantially more than just name-calling, though. For example, after an impressive 1956 season with the Hamilton Tiger-Cats in the Big Four (which would become the CFL's East Division), Gilchrist was offered a chance to return to the U.S. and play for the NFL's Cleveland Browns, but only on the condition he end his relationship with a white Canadian girl he'd met. Here's what he wrote on the subject:

"The NFL would not accept interracial relationships. Our relationship would be a public relations nightmare for them, and that was a take-it-or-leave-it condition of their offer. While I would have loved to play back home on the NFL stage, I realized that I loved Gwen more and saw a better future for us in Canada."

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/cfl-55-yard-line/story-cookie-gilchrist-one-cfl-most-fascinating-alumni-213741102.html

Foxhound

07-13-2018, 08:57 PM

Here's his book:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71l5C5mWQ%2BL.jpg

:)

jerrym

07-14-2018, 10:38 PM

To understand the depth of prejudice that Gilchrist faced, especially if he had returned to the US with a white girlfriend, 42 states made interracial marriage illegal at some point in the country's history and some also made interracial sex illegal as well. Arizona even made it illegal for anyone of mixed race heritage to marry anyone until 1962. When Gilchrist arrived in Canada in 1954, 26 states still made interracial marriage illegal. The last of these laws were finally overturned by a Supreme Court ruling involving a case an interracial couple with the surname Loving, who were jailed for living in Virginia after being married in Washington D.C. in a case called Loving v. United States.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/20/US_miscegenation.svg/500px-US_miscegenation.svg.png (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_miscegenation.svg)
[/URL]
U.S. States, by the date of repeal of anti-miscegenation laws:
No laws passed

Repealed before 1887

Repealed from 1948 to 1967

Overturned on 12 June 1967 by Loving v. Virginia[URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-miscegenation_laws_in_the_United_States#cite_note-33"][33] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_miscegenation.svg)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-miscegenation_laws_in_the_United_States

jerrym

07-14-2018, 10:42 PM

What many people also forget was that Gilchrist was also an All-Star linebacker in the CFL.

Cookie Gilchrist was one of the best two way players in the history of the CFL. He was a big bruising All-Star fullback and an All-Star linebacker. There was very ltitle Cilchrist could not do as he ran the ball, caught passes, returned kickoffs, played defense, handled kickoffs and plackekicking. Gilchrist first came to Canada to play in the Ontario Rugby Football Union (ORFU) which was a rival to the East or Big Four as it was known then.

Gilchrist played with the Sarnia Imperials in 1954 and the Kitchener-Waterloo Dutchman in 1955. In 1956, Cilchrist joined he Hamilton Tiger-Cats where he played for two seasons, picking up 832 and 958 yards rushing in those two seasons. In 1958, Gilchrist moved West to play one in Saskatchewan where he had his best season rushing with 1254 yards. Gilchrist returned to the East in 1959 and played three seasons for the Toronto Argos.

He led the East in scoring in both 1959 and 1960 while teamng with HOF running back Dick Shatto to give the Argos an explosive 1-2 punch at running back. With Shato in the backfield, Gilchrist didn't see the ball as often, but he 87 carries for 496 yards in in 1959 and 88 carries for 662 yards in 1960 (a 7.5 yard average). In 1961, Gilchrist had 105 carries for 709 yards. In his six years in the CFL, Gilchrist was a divisional All-Star at running back five consecutive years from 1956 to 1960 (there were no All-Canadians selected in those years) and was also an Eastern All-Star at linebacker in 1960. I

http://www.cflapedia.com/Players/g/gilchrist_cookie.htm

argolio

07-14-2018, 10:42 PM

For the record, anyone can edit a Wikipedia entry.

jerrym

07-14-2018, 10:58 PM

For the record, anyone can edit a Wikipedia entry.

I am sure what you are suggesting: that some of the records of his accomplishments are doctored because they are coming from Wikipedia? when other sources of data mentioned include cflapedia, yahoosports.com, and profootballresearchers.com. As to the laws making interracial marriage illegal, here's another url from the University of Idaho's website that supports what Wikipedia says:
http://www.webpages.uidaho.edu/engl_258/Lecture%20Notes/american_antimiscegenation.htm

argolio

07-14-2018, 11:28 PM

I am sure what you are suggesting: that some of the records of his accomplishments are doctored because they are coming from Wikipedia? when other sources of data mentioned include cflapedia, yahoosports.com, and profootballresearchers.com.No, I'm just saying anyone from the general public can edit a Wikipedia page. Whether they do a proper job of it is another story.

Foxhound

07-17-2018, 12:48 PM

[In 1955 Gilchrist] headed for [ORFU's] Kitchener-Waterloo to play with the Dutchmen.

The Dutchies played an exhibition game against the semi-pro champion Buffalo Bills on August 19th and Gilchrist made big gains on "sweeps" as did his running mates while on their way to a 60-0 drubbing.

Wow!

Kitchener-Waterloo Dutchmen 60 Buffalo Bills 0

I suspect the game must have been played in Kitchener under largely Canadian rules. I still remember the London Lords and Bramalea Satellites similarly hammering teams from Michigan and the Buffalo area in the late sixties/early seventies. These American teams had all the talent in the world but were absolutely confused when they tried to play our game.

The names of the teams from the "Golden Age" of the ORFU still resonate like magic to me to this very day:

Toronto Balmy Beachers
Sarnia Imperials/Golden Bears
Hamilton Wildcats
Ottawa Trojans
Windsor Rockets
Toronto Indians
Brantford Redskins
Kitchener-Waterloo Dutchmen
London Lords

The Wildcats of course live on as a component part of the Hamilton Tiger-Cats but all those other teams from the glorious early years of Canadian rugby football when semi-pro teams could and did compete for the Grey Cup are sadly many decades gone.

If I won a huge lottery, I'd reconstitute the ORFU with these teams:

Sarnia Imperials or Golden Bears
Windsor Rockets
Kitchener-Waterloo Dutchmen
London Lords
Brantford Indians or Iroquois
Burlington (or Barrie) Balmy Beachers
St. Catharines Rams

I would of course need to get suitable 15,000-24,000 seat stadiums built in each city which I'd do to leave my legacy. Foxhound Stadium has a nice ring to it!

The champions of the ORFU could then embarass the CFL by challenging for the Grey Cup every year thus exacting revenge for the CFL being too snooty to consider Southwestern Ontario as fertile ground for any expansion teams!

:)

Foxhound

07-19-2018, 12:15 PM

Incidentally here's a TSN CFL Fantasy League in honour of the O.R.F.U. in general and the London Lords in particular:

London Lords (https://cflfantasy.tsn.ca/app/leagues/999?sorting=overall)

http://londonsportshalloffame.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Lords-3.jpg

:)

argos1873

07-19-2018, 09:44 PM

He should be in the Hall of Fame. He didn't want to be in the Hall of Fame. His reasons were his own. Perhaps we should respect those reasons.

jerrym

07-22-2018, 01:41 PM

He should be in the Hall of Fame. He didn't want to be in the Hall of Fame. His reasons were his own. Perhaps we should respect those reasons.

I have quoted below in more expanded from the article that I quoted in post #1: namely, that there is strong evidence that Gilchrist did not reject being in the Canadian Football Hall of Fame, probably when it was first proposed and certainly at the end of his life. That Gilchrist had a strained relationship with Jake Gaudaur, who was his GM in Hamilton and later CFL commissioner, there is no doubt; that he could be peevish at times, there is no doubt; but as he said at the end of his life "I have great respect for every Canadian Football Player who played with and against me. I loved Canada and the Canadian people. However Canada does not love Cookie Gilchrist. And I never turned down the Hall Of Fame. When John Agro told me to be nice to Jake Gaudaur, when he told me I was nominated to be inducted, I told Jake I would take that under advisement, and he or they made a lie out of it. Adolf Hitler said the truth when he said the bigger the lie, the more people believe it."What is my crime? I never robbed, raped, stolen, lied, cheated, sold drugs, beat my wife or children. "

Even if, as some allege he once turned down being selected to the Hall, something that he himself denies and which I believe is much more likely to be true, he was open to Canadian Football Hall of Fame induction at the end of his life and should therefore be considered today. Of course, there has never been a peevish superstar selected to any hall of fame anywhere.
Others with far shadier lives have been selected to various Halls of Fame. His record on the field says he belongs in the Canadian Football Hall of Fame.

The Waterloo Region Record just posted a fascinating piece (http://www.therecord.com/living/article/500427--remembering-cookie-gilchrist) on Gilchrist Friday (link via (http://scratchingpost.thespec.com/2011/03/remembering-ticats-great-cookie-gilchrist-cfl.html) Drew Edwards (http://twitter.com/scratchingpost)), written by Kitchener resident Larry Scholtis, whose family Gilchrist boarded with during his time playing for the semipro Kitchener-Waterloo Dutchmen. Scholtis was a young kid at the time, but he has many powerful memories of growing up around Gilchrist, and they kept in touch for decades afterwards. The whole piece is well worth a read, but the most interesting part of it is what Gilchrist told Scholtis about the Hall of Fame controversy:
It has been reported Cookie turned down induction to the Canadian Football League Hall of Fame in Hamilton. But he told me he never actually said no to being inducted.
John Agro, then counsel for Canadian Football League Players Association, had informed Cookie about his nomination to the hall, then told him to be nice to Jake Gaudar [sic], then commissioner of the league. Cookie said he would take it "under advisement" because of his strained relationship with Gaudar [sic]. Today, the hall of fame is missing one of game's greatest players and continues to embarrass itself by not inducting him.

Thus, according to that piece, Gilchrist never rejected the Hall of Fame. Instead, he told the CFLPA he would take being nice to Gaudaur (who he clashed with when Gaudaur was the Tiger-Cats' president and GM) "under advisement," and that was enough to keep him from being inducted? Obviously, that's quite the story, and there are many who would take it with a grain of salt; Scholtis may have misremembered some crucial detail, or Gilchrist may not have told him the complete story. Upon a further reading of Earl McRae's excellent piece (http://www.ottawasun.com/news/columnists/earl_mcrae/2010/01/23/12589641.html) on Gilchrist, though, it looks like there's some support for this. Here's part of what Gilchrist e-mailed McRae in 2010:
"My throat cancer is in remission, my weight is the same. Tell Kaye Vaughan and the crew those days were the greatest in my life. I have great respect for every Canadian Football Player who played with and against me.
"I loved Canada and the Canadian people. However Canada does not love Cookie Gilchrist. And I never turned down the Hall Of Fame. When John Agro told me to be nice to Jake Gaudaur, when he told me I was nominated to be inducted, I told Jake I would take that under advisement, and he or they made a lie out of it. Adolf Hitler said the truth when he said the bigger the lie, the more people believe it.
"What is my crime? I never robbed, raped, stolen, lied, cheated, sold drugs, beat my wife or children. So. Why did the country treat me as a persona non grata from 1956 to 2010? But it's okay, I know how to deal with all the players now. It will all come out in the production of my life story once all the T's are crossed and the I's dotted.

On its own, that isn't the clearest statement, but when read in combination with Scholtis' piece, it fits right in. Gilchrist's comments to both Scholtis and McRae present a clear version of the story, from his perspective, and it's one that doesn't include him rejecting the Hall. What the other side of the story is may be more difficult to uncover, as Gaudaur passed away in 2007 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jake_Gaudaur) and John Agro has also passed on (http://www.ticats.ca/article/ticats-tv-introduces-carly-agro) (his name lives on in the CFL's outstanding special teams player award (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Agro_Special_Teams_Award), though). Still, regardless of if Gilchrist's version is the complete story of how the Hall of Fame situation went down or not, it's an important side of the story to have. At the very least, Gilchrist clearly was open to the Hall of Fame in his later years; at most, he was always open to the Hall of Fame but was kept out by political machinations and/or misinterpretations.

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/cfl-55-yard-line/did-cookie-gilchrist-really-turn-down-hall-fame.html

Foxhound

08-09-2019, 02:10 PM

Well I still say Cookie Gilchrist belongs in the Canadian Football Hall of Fame! How many other players starred in both the ORFU and the CFL? How many other players were elected to the CFL All-Star team on both Offence and on Defence? Very, very few. And those players who did can be found in the Canadian Football Hall of Fame!

https://images.thestar.com/ZtybcDgVANyeDwBHonMnabOL7lw=/1086x1343/smart/filters:cb(2700061000)/https://www.thestar.com/content/dam/thestar/sports/football/2011/01/11/exargo_star_cookie_gilchrist_dead_at_75/spwebcookie10.jpeg

Incidentally new members to the Chester's Cookies (https://fantasy-api.cfl.ca/en/league_invitation?league_id=3421&code=36aac9cc-9762-4b14-afe5-66164347ff39) TSN CFL Fantasy League are still very welcome!

:)

Golden Fleece

08-13-2019, 11:17 AM

He's got a strong case. Does the Canadian HOF have a veteran's committee similar to some of the other leagues?

AngeloV

08-13-2019, 04:59 PM

He's got a strong case. Does the Canadian HOF have a veteran's committee similar to some of the other leagues?

Matt Dunnigan is on the committee and said during Saturday’s broadcast that righted a wrong in not having Greer and Fernandez inducted earlier. Sounded to me that they can go back and look at people from the past that shouldn’t have been overlooked. Might be a good idea to somehow get this suggestion out to him.

Argo57

08-13-2019, 06:46 PM

Matt Dunnigan is on the committee and said during Saturday’s broadcast that righted a wrong in not having Greer and Fernandez inducted earlier. Sounded to me that they can go back and look at people from the past that shouldn’t have been overlooked. Might be a good idea to somehow get this suggestion out to him.

Dunigan is right on point with this, two of the most dominant receivers of the 1980’s have to wait over three decades to get into the Hall of Fame, a head scratcher to say the least.

Foxhound

08-13-2019, 07:01 PM

Matt Dunnigan is on the committee and said during Saturday’s broadcast that righted a wrong in not having Greer and Fernandez inducted earlier. Sounded to me that they can go back and look at people from the past that shouldn’t have been overlooked. Might be a good idea to somehow get this suggestion out to him.

So who here is in a position to get in touch with Matt Dunigan?

:snack:

AngeloV

08-13-2019, 07:37 PM

So who here is in a position to get in touch with Matt Dunigan?

:snack:

He’s on Twitter

doubleblue

08-13-2019, 10:00 PM

I was wondering if the fact Fernandez, Greer and also Cookie all went down South after five years in the CFL had something to do with them being passed over. No doubt about it though they were great players.

paulwoods13

08-14-2019, 07:50 AM

There's little doubt that Greer and Fernandez were penalized by selectors over the years for being in the CFL only six seasons each. That reasoning was specious considering Warren Moon also played just six years in Canada, and he was inducted 18 years ago. Fernandez also had some legal issues that I think played a part in him being snubbed along the way. In any case, the wrong was finally righted this year. Now it's on to other glaring omissions such as Hank Ilesic. Bob Cameron is in, so the notion that Ilesic was "just a punter" does not hold water. And it's not just Argos who are being overlooked -- there are players from most other teams who could also make legitimate claim to be chosen.

Will

08-14-2019, 08:06 AM

Hank Ilesic was inducted into the hall of fame last year.

paulwoods13

08-14-2019, 10:21 AM

Hank Ilesic was inducted into the hall of fame last year.

Doh! I got so used to him being perennially overlooked, it must have got embedded in my memory permanently.

Foxhound

08-14-2019, 12:06 PM

He’s on Twitter

Well I'm not. I'll therefore leave things up to you other fellows.

:)

Foxhound

08-14-2019, 12:10 PM

I was wondering if the fact Fernandez, Greer and also Cookie all went down South after five years in the CFL had something to do with them being passed over.

Hmmmmm. That might arguably be a reasonable factor to take into consideration when it's the Canadian Football Hall of Fame.

:snack:

ArgoGabe22

08-14-2019, 12:57 PM

Marty York (whos gone nuts on Twitter lol) always thought Hank was left out for his relationship with York.

AngeloV

08-14-2019, 04:30 PM

Marty York (whos gone nuts on Twitter lol) always thought Hank was left out for his relationship with York.

Nuts is the understatement of the year.

Foxhound

08-15-2019, 10:57 AM