2018 CFL TV Ratings

[jerrym]

The CFL TV ratings show the Argos up 20.2% from last year at 548,000 viewers, but the results are somewhat skewed by Toronto having already played the Riders, the most popular team, during their first four games. The Riders have the largest viewership at 652,000 while Hamilton is second and the Argos are third. Edmonton at Toronto pulled in 477,900. CFL year-to-date ratings are up 5%.

http://3downnation.com/2018/07/12/cfl-ratings-report-riders-ticats-game-posts-massive-number/

[ArgoRavi]

The CFL TV ratings show the Argos up 20.2% from last year at 548,000 viewers, but the results are somewhat skewed by Toronto having already played the Riders, the most popular team, during their first four games. The Riders have the largest viewership at 652,000 while Hamilton is second and the Argos are third. Edmonton at Toronto pulled in 477,900. CFL year-to-date ratings are up 5%.

http://3downnation.com/2018/07/12/cfl-ratings-report-riders-ticats-game-posts-massive-number/

What is especially amazing is that ratings are up, despite the fact that we have seen far fewer close games so far this season.

[jerrym]

CFL Ratings for Week 5 were down thanks to a poor showing by Ottawa. Compared to Week 5 of 2017 the numbers were also misleading because the decrease of 9.8% was largely due to three games being played this year as opposed to five last year because of the extra bye week in the schedule.



Thursday’s match up between Calgary and Ottawa posted an audience of just 278,000, easily the lowest-rated game of the season and the poorest showing since a Week 13 game last September.
That contest – which drew a paltry 190,000 viewers on TSN – also featured the Redblacks who were in Montreal to face the Alouettes. In fact, when we looked at TV ratings for the 2017 season last week, one thing that stood out were the surprisingly low numbers for the Ottawa Redblacks whose 434,400 average audience was the second-lowest in the CFL (trailing only Montreal, whose numbers don’t include French-language RDS.)
That trend has continued into 2018: the Redblacks currently have the lowest average TV audience in the CFL with just 415,375 viewers (Montreal is next at 494,725.) And despite a tough week, the league’s overall numbers are up more than three per cent while Ottawa’s numbers are down almost 4.5 per cent.

Now, the game was a blowout – Calgary won 27-3 – so that was likely a contributing factor and, as we showed a couple of weeks ago, Thursday games typically perform worse than games on Fridays at Saturdays. ...


Comparing numbers on a week-to-week basis is also a challenge: in 2017, there were five games on the slate while the addition of a third bye week this season means there were just three on the schedule in 2018. Average viewership for Week 5 was down almost 10 per cent year-over-year.
Week 5 ratings
Thursday
Calgary at Ottawa: 278,000
Friday
Toronto at Edmonton: 517,500
Saturday
Winnipeg at B.C.: 499,000
Week 5, 2018 (three games) vs 2017 (five games): -9.8 per cent
Year-to-date vs 2017: +3.3 per cent


http://www.3downnation.com/2018/07/19/cfl-ratings-report-redblacks-stamps-drag-whole-week/

[jerrym]

After the first four weeks the Argos were third in viewers and up 20.2% from 2017, and during the fourth week, they were outdrawn only by the league leading Riders. With Riders not playing in Week five, the Argo Edmonton game led with 517,500 viewers. Who are all these invisible viewers?

[Joe Barnes]

After the first four weeks the Argos were third in viewers and up 20.2% from 2017, and during the fourth week, they were outdrawn only by the league leading Riders. With Riders not playing in Week five, the Argo Edmonton game led with 517,500 viewers. Who are all these invisible viewers?

Pink Floyd once asked "Is there anybody out there?" One could not blame the Argos for asking the same question. Yet, according to the ratings (again!), the answer is yes...If even a small number of these 'invisible viewers' attended the games, there would be no attendance problem!

[jerrym]

Week 6 ratings showed the Argos game was the least watched of the four games with 421,200 viewers.

Live mic games are 11% below the overall average. Social media response to the live mic have been mixed but this may be because the Riders, the most popular team, have not been involved in a live mic game.



The first four live mic games have averaged 456,000 viewers on TSN, almost 11 per cent worse than the overall average of 511,000. ...

Overall, Week 6 ratings were down five per cent from 2017 with an average audience of 515,900. The numbers are still up two per cent overall on the season but after a strong start that saw TSN post gains in three of the first four weeks, rating are down in each of the last two.

Week 6 ratings
Thursday
Saskatchewan at Hamilton: 689,300

Friday
B.C. at Ottawa: 500,200

Saturday
Winnipeg at Toronto: 421,200

Montreal at Calgary: 452,900

Week 6, 2018 vs 2017: -4.9 per cent
Year-to-date vs 2017: +1.9 per cent


http://3downnation.com/2018/07/25/cfl-ratings-report-live-mic-games-yet-provide-bump/

[Neely2005]

After the first four weeks the Argos were third in viewers and up 20.2% from 2017, and during the fourth week, they were outdrawn only by the league leading Riders. With Riders not playing in Week five, the Argo Edmonton game led with 517,500 viewers. Who are all these invisible viewers?

A lot of Argonauts fans just don't want to get of their couch. A lot of Argonauts fans don't want to drive downtown and if you aren't close to the Lakeshore GO Line taking transit to BMO Field isn't easy or quick.

[AngeloV]

A lot of Argonauts fans just don't want to get of their couch. A lot of Argonauts fans don't want to drive downtown and if you aren't close to the Lakeshore GO Line taking transit to BMO Field isn't easy or quick.

I remember back in the 80's, the TTC used to have special chartered busses from various malls or plazas going to the EX on game day. I guess they think the demand these days would not justify it, but I wonder if that would help? Golden Mile at VP and Eglinton is the one I most remember.

[Will]

I believe that the HSR in Hamilton offers complimentary trips for those who have game tickets. I think OC Transpo might do the same.

Would some sort of agreement with the TTC or GO Transit help?

[Scooter McCray]

How come there were 32,000 at Skydome for a 4 pm start to watch the BJ's get swept yet again by a team beneath them in the standings? Not that the Argos to this point are playing compelling home football but I don't get that. That game took 4.5 hrs to play and must have been excruciating to watch with all the pitching changes etc...

[PullTogether73]

How come there were 32,000 at Skydome for a 4 pm start to watch the BJ's get swept yet again by a team beneath them in the standings? Not that the Argos to this point are playing compelling home football but I don't get that. That game took 4.5 hrs to play and must have been excruciating to watch with all the pitching changes etc...

Baseball is excruciating to watch at the best of times.
:sick::hi:

[AngeloV]

How come there were 32,000 at Skydome for a 4 pm start to watch the BJ's get swept yet again by a team beneath them in the standings? Not that the Argos to this point are playing compelling home football but I don't get that. That game took 4.5 hrs to play and must have been excruciating to watch with all the pitching changes etc...


Other than the "Big League" perception that dominates the minds of so many Torontonians, I don't get it either.



Baseball is excruciating to watch at the best of times.
:sick::hi:

I played baseball as well as football right through high school. As soon as I stopped playing baseball, I had very little interest in it, so I tend to agree.

[paulwoods13]

Part of the reason Blue Jays draw well (altho well below 2 years ago) is the fact that for some reason, Jays games became known as a fun place for young people to get drunk. When I've been to Jays games and sat somewhere other than 100-level infield (which is mostly filled with true baseball fans), lots of people around me were not even following the game but were just there to get looped.

[AngeloV]

Part of the reason Blue Jays draw well (altho well below 2 years ago) is the fact that for some reason, Jays games became known as a fun place for young people to get drunk. When I've been to Jays games and sat somewhere other than 100-level infield (which is mostly filled with true baseball fans), lots of people around me were not even following the game but were just there to get looped.

Makes no sense to me why someone would want to overpay just to get drunk, unless of course, there are a good portion of underagers buying beer in the stadium. I believe on 2 separate occasions, the stadium had a temporary license suspension for serving alcohol to underagers, so you would hope that isn't what's happening.

[Will]

Part of the reason Blue Jays draw well (altho well below 2 years ago) is the fact that for some reason, Jays games became known as a fun place for young people to get drunk. When I've been to Jays games and sat somewhere other than 100-level infield (which is mostly filled with true baseball fans), lots of people around me were not even following the game but were just there to get looped.

That patio out in CF seems to be quite popular.

Plus, people my age were 5 or 6 when the Jays won the World Series. They got us then and we are now in the positions of having disposable income.

[Godfather]

Baseball is excruciating to watch at the best of times.
:sick::hi:

Yes. I am amazed at how many people pay to attend these baseball games that are just so slow.

[argotom]

Yes. I am amazed at how many people pay to attend these baseball games that are just so slow.

Yes there is no account for taste by the vast majority of these wannabe Americans.

[ArgoRavi]

Yes. I am amazed at how many people pay to attend these baseball games that are just so slow.

What I find particularly baffling is that the Jays are getting crowds of 32k and 39k to watch meaningless games. Both the Jays and their past two opponents, the Orioles and Twins, are all but eliminated from playoff contention already.

For whatever the reason though, Jays games are still considered to be a "place to be". I doubt that many of the people at the games even realize how bad the Jays are this year and how they will probably be a lousy team for some time yet.

[Argo57]

What I find particularly baffling is that the Jays are getting crowds of 32k and 39k to watch meaningless games. Both the Jays and their past two opponents, the Orioles and Twins, are all but eliminated from playoff contention already.

For whatever the reason though, Jays games are still considered to be a "place to be". I doubt that many of the people at the games even realize how bad the Jays are this year and how they will probably be a lousy team for some time yet.

This won’t last forever Ravi.

[Shatto]

When one examines recent Argo attendance history, there are a couple of almost unexplainable conundrums:
1)In the last 2 years at Skydome, the attendance at regular season and playoff games was better than it has been at BMO. Almost 18,000 (2014) and 16,640 (2015) and the 2015 schedule imposed on the team by Rogers was almost criminal.
2)In spite of everything the attendance at last year's playoff game at BMO was just shy of 25,000

Both of the above indicate there is the potential to draw bigger crowds. The interest must be there or how else can one explain the attendance in the 2 years prior to moving to BMO and the almost 25,000 that turned up Nov 19th of last year.

For #1) --it could be a number of factors---a)regardless of weather a fans would be assured of a comfortable, dry, warm environment at the Dome-- b)Skydome is easier for most to get to by public transportation-- c)parking was easier at Skydome than CNE especially during the exhibition and the Indy--d)because of the uncertainty of weather conditions perhaps some decided not to buy ST's but buy tickets when the weather was good and we all know what that leads to--e)the fiasco of the overpricing of the Grey Cup tickets may well have turned people off--f)could people feel that the team and its fans are still second class citizens at BMO; the condition of the North end zone playing surface suggests that

For #2) there was a buzz/a level of excitement attached to the team. For those who were there at the tailgate you could sense the excitement by the size of the crowd and the general atmosphere. So is it not possible that if the team can reproduce that buzz/excitement, we could see similar size crowds at the games?

All of the above is conjecture and educated guesswork but there is no denying that the attendance potential is there and now management has to determine how to attract potential fans to the game. There is probably no one magic bullet but rather a number and/or combination of ideas and approaches that may have to be explored. Personally I still of the opinion that tailgating could well be one of those attractions if advertised well and allowed to grow.

[Joe Barnes]

The Jays kicked the Argos out of the Dome so they could supposedly install a grass field and make changes to the stadium to make it more intimate for baseball. None of this has happened and now both teams are owned by parts of the same group. Would moving back to the Dome be possible and if so, would that move actually bring back a significant number of fans?

[Neely2005]

The Jays kicked the Argos out of the Dome so they could supposedly install a grass field and make changes to the stadium to make it more intimate for baseball. None of this has happened and now both teams are owned by parts of the same group. Would moving back to the Dome be possible and if so, would that move actually bring back a significant number of fans?

Personally I think that would be a step backwards but IIRC it's not possible as the Jays have a dirt infield now.

[Joe Barnes]

Personally I think that would be a step backwards but IIRC it's not possible as the Jays have a dirt infield now.

My point is really hypothetical and personally, I prefer BMO. I would not welcome a move like this, but if a significant number of old fans and some potential new fans are actually staying away due to BMO, and would attend games at the Dome, it's worth thinking about...attendance is just getting worse. The idea that BMO was the savior has been proven false, and the hip, Liberty Village crowd that attends soccer (and now rugby), are not coming yet. Will they ever? Besides, hipsters go to the Jays games, so the 'place to be' can be anywhere.

As far as the dirt infield goes...1) Is that any worse than the endzones now? 2) Could the infield be covered? I recall St. Louis had an astroturf field with a full dirt infield in the '70's (unlike the cut outs most stadiums had) and had a cover for the base paths, etc. when the football team played. Could something like that not be created?

[R.J]

Can't tailgate if you m9ve the Argos back to the Dome.

[Joe Barnes]

Can't tailgate if you m9ve the Argos back to the Dome.

That is true! I guess the question would be what brings more people to the game: a tailgate, or a climate controlled environment with nicer seats and a cup holder? And better TTC access (as in subway) to the stadium...

[ArgoGabe22]

That is true! I guess the question would be what brings more people to the game: a tailgate, or a climate controlled environment with nicer seats and a cup holder? And better TTC access (as in subway) to the stadium...

The Dome sucks for football. It was like playing in a shopping mall.

[Joe Barnes]

The Dome sucks for football. It was like playing in a shopping mall.

No argument from me! As I stated, I much prefer BMO. But the Argos, as a business, do have to analyze what works and what doesn't. As with any product, a company will pull or tweak something that is not connecting with consumers. If Argos at BMO is missing the mark but more people would attend at the Dome, then that would be the right move, for the sake of the business. Like the inferior VHS vs Sony's BetaMAx, which was superior...the majority wanted VHS so Sony eventually capitulated and sold VHS stuff, despite what the purists wanted...man, am I old...

[PullTogether73]

Of course, MLSE doesn't control Rogers Centre, so that might be a problem even though Rogers is now part owner of the Argonauts.
And then there is the scheduling issue.

[paulwoods13]

No to the dome. An absolutely horrible venue for football. Seats are miles from the field, curl away from the field in the middle, too shallow a pitch in the 100 level, no legroom and insufficient concessions in the 500 level, stifling atmosphere when roof is closed, roof has to be closed on gorgeous fall days, etc etc.

[Joe Barnes]

No to the dome. An absolutely horrible venue for football. Seats are miles from the field, curl away from the field in the middle, too shallow a pitch in the 100 level, no legroom and insufficient concessions in the 500 level, stifling atmosphere when roof is closed, roof has to be closed on gorgeous fall days, etc etc.

Agreed (again), the Dome was bad. So, in keeping loosely with the thread about TV ratings, how do we get some of those 'invisible' Argos fans, the ones who keep the ratings decent, (who may in the past have gone to games at the Dome but don't want to come down to BMO), to come down to BMO???

I know the thrust of promotion has been to get the younger crowd to games but it has not worked and seems to have kept the older crowd away, as well. What if instead of appealing to the young, they appealed to the old? Have old bands from the '70's or '80's perform at halftime (think Kim Mitchell, Goddo, Rik Emmett, Coney Hatch, Loverboy, April Wine - these old guys are all around and still perform). Play more classic rock than hip-hop between plays. Make it an old time, Metro Toronto night out? Many people think of the Argos as an old-white-guy thing anyway, so own it! Thing is, if people came down to an event like this, they would have fun, and that is all that counts! Would the older crowd come out for this celebration of their youth? I don't know, but it is worth a try - nothing else is getting people off of their couches. If it worked, and younger people saw more bodies in the stadium having a blast, regardless of demographic, they then might come and check it out.

The current in game presentation is fine but it is no different than anyone else is doing and not drawing new (or older) fans. Maybe a 'back to the future' approach might get those people (who are clearly watching at home) down to the games.

[PullTogether73]

No to the dome. An absolutely horrible venue for football. Seats are miles from the field, curl away from the field in the middle, too shallow a pitch in the 100 level, no legroom and insufficient concessions in the 500 level, stifling atmosphere when roof is closed, roof has to be closed on gorgeous fall days, etc etc.

I knew that I had no desire to return to the dome, but thanks Paul for listing ALL of the reasons why.
I had forgotten a few.

[gilthethrill]

Does no one remember this....the Argos were kicked out of the dome by the Jays??????

[Joe Barnes]

Does no one remember this....the Argos were kicked out of the dome by the Jays??????

Yes. That was before Rogers owned a piece of the Argos. It was also to make the Dome more baseball friendly (grass field), which has not happened. But we all agree BMO is better...it's just some Argo fans didn't make the move to BMO with the team and prefer to watch on TV now - hence the good ratings. How do we get some of them back to the games in person?

[ArgoGabe22]

How do we get some of them back to the games in person?

Having Tuesday night games at the dome? (Sarcasm)

[Joe Barnes]

Having Tuesday night games at the dome? (Sarcasm)

Only with bobblehead giveaways!

[macspectrum]

Yes. That was before Rogers owned a piece of the Argos. It was also to make the Dome more baseball friendly (grass field), which has not happened. But we all agree BMO is better...it's just some Argo fans didn't make the move to BMO with the team and prefer to watch on TV now - hence the good ratings. How do we get some of them back to the games in person?

' some Argo fans didn't make the move to BMO'
.
omg i laffed so hard ..... 9k at last game ..... 'some' .... that is so funny
.
dome was a much better venue - period
just watch eastern final w. john candy as part owner and 100th grey cup in skydome [both on youtube] to see what crowds were like
candy was on tonight show w/ carson and even tho' promoting a movie still talked a little football
he shamelessly promoted the argos and cfl
cfl needs some like him - i miss john candy - wally buono would have made a much better commish than ambroise who seems a coporate lackey
.
i cannot seem to find argo attendance figures in the dome w/ google

[paulwoods13]

Yes, 1991 eastern final and 2012 Grey Cup were great days in the history of the Toronto Argonauts. But that doesn't make SkyDome a good venue for football. And those crowds were the exception not the norm.

[Godfather]

I think one problem with argo attendance is that many people who are fans, and would like to go to games, can't find anyone to go with them - so they watch on TV instead.

Unfortunately Toronto (and many Canadians) think that they are too good for the CFL. By admitting they are an argo fan they are displaying how uncool they are (in the minds of many Torontonians). Many people get teased about their love of the CFL here in Toronto/Southern Ontario. Younger people are particularly susceptible to this. This could explain why CFL fans tend to be a bit older.

Toronto is a very insecure city with absolutely no culture. People here only get excited about things when other people, particularly americans, get excited about them.

Godfather

[Shatto]

BMO has many advantages over the Dome but the Dome does have a couple of big advantages-- 1) People can purchase ST's with the knowledge they can watch every game in comfort regardless of any inclement weather --2) Public transportation is better for most people

Could the team return to the Dome --highly unlikely. IMO that would happen only if certain conditions were to occur:
. If MLSE were to buy the Jays
or
.if the Jays are sold and the new owner moves the team to an American city
or
.Rogers builds a baseball specific stadium in Toronto

Any/all of the above are not very likely and as a result any discussion of the Argos moving back to the Dome, while interesting, is purely that --just an interesting discussion.

[paulwoods13]

Interesting is a generous assessment.

[R.J]

Has there even been a bad weather game at BMO yet ?

[Mightygoose]

Hasn't been a bad weather game yet In my view.

I would love to see what kind of attendance is reported if there is a da with heavy rain when the Ti-Cats are in town. By announcing scanned that could make it another historic low, yet sales being good.

[R.J]

Hasn't been a bad weather game yet In my view.

I would love to see what kind of attendance is reported if there is a da with heavy rain when the Ti-Cats are in town. By announcing scanned that could make it another historic low, yet sales being good.
Yeah I'm a little confused as to why for the Argonauts the announced crowd is tickets scanned and yet for TFC it's tickets sold and distributed.

[Mightygoose]

Yeah I'm a little confused as to why for the Argonauts the announced crowd is tickets scanned and yet for TFC it's tickets sold and distributed.

Would love to hear the explanation tough I was under the impression TFC does scanned as well. They announced as sellout on Saturday of 29,190 yet the stadium seats over 30K for soccer.

I've always wondered if it had something to do with MLSE's lease with the city...couldn't even guess what that would be.

[gilthethrill]

Yes. That was before Rogers owned a piece of the Argos. It was also to make the Dome more baseball friendly (grass field), which has not happened. But we all agree BMO is better...it's just some Argo fans didn't make the move to BMO with the team and prefer to watch on TV now - hence the good ratings. How do we get some of them back to the games in person?

I am not surprised that the grass field was never installed at RC, nor was it ever going to be installed. Jays didn't and still don't want the Argos there. The Dome sucks, BMO is great, too bad people who did not make the move don't realize that.

[argotom]

.

[R.J]

Would love to hear the explanation tough I was under the impression TFC does scanned as well. They announced as sellout on Saturday of 29,190 yet the stadium seats over 30K for soccer.

I've always wondered if it had something to do with MLSE's lease with the city...couldn't even guess what that would be.
That 30k number is a myth that Leweike started when he announced the renos. Which was never completed because they didn't end up doing the North end the way they wanted to - they ran out of time and cheaped out. Just like the 40k number he said for temp stand soccer events. It's about 26,500 for Argos - 33k for Grey Cup - around 28,500 for TFC now with those temp stands in the North End (around 29,000 with standing room) - around 36k with the Grey Cup/Centennial Classic temp stands.

Major reno coming for the 2026 World Cup, since the World Cup bid stated 45,500 capacity for BMO.

[SkalbaniasGhost]

That 30k number is a myth that Leweike started when he announced the renos. Which was never completed because they didn't end up doing the North end the way they wanted to - they ran out of time and cheaped out. Just like the 40k number he said for temp stand soccer events. It's about 26,500 for Argos - 33k for Grey Cup - around 28,500 for TFC now with those temp stands in the North End (around 29,000 with standing room) - around 36k with the Grey Cup/Centennial Classic temp stands.

Major reno coming for the 2026 World Cup, since the World Cup bid stated 45,500 capacity for BMO.

We have yet to have a nasty "cold" rain event day.Think 84 eastern final, 86 game against Montreal, 88 eastern final.
Attendance could hit 7-8000 territory.

This renovation could very well involve an ETF roof/sliding garage door component.
like this facility.
https://populous.com/project/forsyth-barr-stadium/

Skydome might just see the Argos return albeit temporarily.
I'm fine with it as long as those games are not on Thursday(my big pet peeve).
I want a Sunday game.

[R.J]

We have yet to have a nasty "cold" rain event day.Think 84 eastern final, 86 game against Montreal, 88 eastern final.
Attendance could hit 7-8000 territory.

This renovation could very well involve an ETF roof/sliding garage door component.
like this facility.
https://populous.com/project/forsyth-barr-stadium/

Skydome might just see the Argos return albeit temporarily.
I'm fine with it as long as those games are not on Thursday(my big pet peeve).
I want a Sunday game.
I very highly doubt there will be an ETF Roof. Most likely (from what I've been told, but things could change): New upper West stands, upgrade suites in the West stands, new seats, and both endzones will be renovated again. The dome ain't happening either - I really don't understand why it's still being brought up.

[Shatto]

Forget the roof or changes to stands--fix the damn north end zone playing surface. It's an absolute disgrace.

[macspectrum]

Forget the roof or changes to stands--fix the damn north end zone playing surface. It's an absolute disgrace.

and fix 17 yd endzones to 20
or make a league wide rule change that end zones are now to be 15 yd deep
.
putting goal posts at back of end zone means less FGs and more go for it on 3rd down
all [1 and 2] PATs now are from 3 yd line

[Argo57]

We have yet to have a nasty "cold" rain event day.Think 84 eastern final, 86 game against Montreal, 88 eastern final.
Attendance could hit 7-8000 territory.

This renovation could very well involve an ETF roof/sliding garage door component.
like this facility.
https://populous.com/project/forsyth-barr-stadium/

Skydome might just see the Argos return albeit temporarily.
I'm fine with it as long as those games are not on Thursday(my big pet peeve).
I want a Sunday game.

The 1982 Grey Cup was the most miserable weather game I’ve attended.

[Joe Barnes]

I think one problem with argo attendance is that many people who are fans, and would like to go to games, can't find anyone to go with them - so they watch on TV instead.

Unfortunately Toronto (and many Canadians) think that they are too good for the CFL. By admitting they are an argo fan they are displaying how uncool they are (in the minds of many Torontonians). Many people get teased about their love of the CFL here in Toronto/Southern Ontario. Younger people are particularly susceptible to this. This could explain why CFL fans tend to be a bit older.

Toronto is a very insecure city with absolutely no culture. People here only get excited about things when other people, particularly americans, get excited about them.

Godfather

I think you may have answered my question about why people, even older Argo fans, don't come down to games at BMO. Now that you mention it, I wear my Argo hats/t-shirts all the time and it is amazing how often people, usually in their 50's, come up to me and, in a hushed tone, start up an Argo/CFL conversation. Almost like they don't want anyone else to hear. If the stigma of being an Argo fan exists even in the generation that grew up when the team was cool and the talk of the city, I don't know how you get the younger crowd to come. Very sad thought...but at least people are still watching at home...

[jerrym]

The TV ratings for Manziel's first start are in. While 13% above the league average with 575,200 on TSN and 155,000 on RDS, they are not the massive increase many people were expecting. Once again the Riders dominated with 907,800 watching their game against Edmonton. Toronto's game against Ottawa drew the smallest number of viewers, 428,000, while BC at Calgary had 462,700 viewers.



The Alouettes terrible start in the game against Hamilton – they were down 28-0 before the first quarter was over – likely played a factor in the ratings as did Manziel’s poor performance (http://3downnation.com/2018/08/03/video-johnny-manziel-feels-football-gods-humbled-losing-cfl-debut/). He was pulled after three quarters having thrown four interceptions (http://3downnation.com/2018/08/03/johnny-manziel-picked-off-four-times-opening-half-cfl-debut-twitter-lights/).
Montreal didn’t get a substantial boost at the gate, either. Attendance for the game was just 18,576, their second-largest home crowd of the season but just a 5.5 per cent increase over their 17,623 average.


http://3downnation.com/2018/08/07/tsn-ratings-manziels-debut-fall-short-expectations/

[jerrym]

On the other hand, with 406,000 viewers Manziel drew the largest audience ever to watch a CFL game on ESPN2. The previous record was a 2013 Edmonton-Saskatchewan game that had 347,000 viewers.

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[Argofan_1000]

The TV ratings for Manziel's first start are in. While 13% above the league average with 575,200 on TSN and 155,000 on RDS, they are not the massive increase many people were expecting. Once again the Riders dominated with 907,800 watching their game against Edmonton. Toronto's game against Ottawa drew the smallest number of viewers, 428,000, while BC at Calgary had 462,700 viewers.



http://3downnation.com/2018/08/07/tsn-ratings-manziels-debut-fall-short-expectations/

remember Numeris numbers are an estimate. It is a sampling for overnight data. They use the people meters to try to come up with viewing numbers for overnight data. There is a sound the meter picks up from the TV. Turn the vol down or off and still watch? You are not included if the meter can not pickup the tone.

The numbers we see published are continuous viewers. If you leave the room or switch channels and then return you will not be included in the overnight ratings but will be included in total reach numbers, something that isn't posted. If you have to use the bathroom, well you have taken away how much the CFL will get for TV revenue, so please keep a bed pan beside you. There are far more people watching if the overnight numbers are saying 500-600K. J.M. story- the quality of the game affected those numbers and also in the U.S. There are also areas of Canada that is not covered very well with the people meters so the data is an estimate. Numeris has said that sports is the most difficult to determine and I believe them. For most TV shows it doesn't matter - for sports it matters. The league and TSN should push to see the distribution of the meters. Again this is statistics and the distribution must be done fairly to get good results from a small sample size.
Numeris has its own web site to explain everything. Haven't looked at it in a long time but at one time it explains how they measure

[Neely2005]

That patio out in CF seems to be quite popular.

Plus, people my age were 5 or 6 when the Jays won the World Series. They got us then and we are now in the positions of having disposable income.

To bad that the open area by the North Endzone @ BMO Field has been replaced with stands.

[Neely2005]

The TV ratings for Manziel's first start are in. While 13% above the league average with 575,200 on TSN and 155,000 on RDS, they are not the massive increase many people were expecting. Once again the Riders dominated with 907,800 watching their game against Edmonton. Toronto's game against Ottawa drew the smallest number of viewers, 428,000, while BC at Calgary had 462,700 viewers.



http://3downnation.com/2018/08/07/tsn-ratings-manziels-debut-fall-short-expectations/

But as per the Toronto media wasn't JM supposed to sell thousands of tickets and that's why Toronto should have signed him?

[CFLfan]

But as per the Toronto media wasn't JM supposed to sell thousands of tickets and that's why Toronto should have signed him?

People likely tuned in for the 1st quarter and switched off when it was 28 - 0 and Manziel looking bad.

Would he have sold tickets in Toronto? I doubt it, nothing seems to bring in a crowd in Toronto, they've tried cheap tickets, concerts, cheap beer, weekend games, Ex entry with tickets, winning a Grey Cup.

[Shatto]

IMO the TV numbers are reasonably good, with an average of 645,000 (just shy of 2/3 of a million) for a mid summer week. OK, we can always hope for better and the "seats on bums" need to improve but it still shows that the CFL is good for the money with TSN. Just an aside, does anyone know how TFC TV numbers have been over the last few weeks?

[CFLfan]

remember Numeris numbers are an estimate. It is a sampling for overnight data. They use the people meters to try to come up with viewing numbers for overnight data. There is a sound the meter picks up from the TV. Turn the vol down or off and still watch? You are not included if the meter can not pickup the tone.

The numbers we see published are continuous viewers. If you leave the room or switch channels and then return you will not be included in the overnight ratings but will be included in total reach numbers, something that isn't posted. If you have to use the bathroom, well you have taken away how much the CFL will get for TV revenue, so please keep a bed pan beside you. There are far more people watching if the overnight numbers are saying 500-600K. J.M. story- the quality of the game affected those numbers and also in the U.S. There are also areas of Canada that is not covered very well with the people meters so the data is an estimate. Numeris has said that sports is the most difficult to determine and I believe them. For most TV shows it doesn't matter - for sports it matters. The league and TSN should push to see the distribution of the meters. Again this is statistics and the distribution must be done fairly to get good results from a small sample size.
Numeris has its own web site to explain everything. Haven't looked at it in a long time but at one time it explains how they measure

But Numeris also sends out the diaries, we did one a few years ago and everyone in the household over 5 years old completes it for a week and mails it back. They also do the over the phone surveys
They also started measuring recorded programs on DVRs a couple of years ago because a lot of people record their sports and fast forward the ads etc, there were a lot of ratings missed. Your bathroom break wouldn't apply to the DVR'd games.
And don't forget that people have multiple TVs in a home. We had 3 TVs and I could be watching a CFL game and my wife in another room watching her programs and my daughter watching her teen programs. My wife and daughter both like the Jays and they watch the, so if going head to head against the CFL our household would show 2 Jays to 1 CFL.

I would disagree with you about the bathroom etc, it's about people watching more than a few minutes and not turning the channel.
You can go on to Numeris and see the actual numbers published for the week, it takes at least 2 weeks to compile the meters, diaries etc and they are not far off the overnight estimates. If you think that the CFL numbers should be higher than it would be the same for the other sports too, like the Jays on sportsnet.
I believer they have everything covered and they are pretty accurate and it's not just about one person in a home using a meter, there is more to it than that.

[ArgoZ]

I must be one of the crazies that leaves the TV on and doesn’t adjust the volume to take a leak. Where’s Edward Snowden to tell us the real truth like they know when we use the washroom. Telling fans that using the washroom hurts CFL rating was a good laugh anyway.

[lazycro]

I must be one of the crazies that leaves the TV on and doesn’t adjust the volume to take a leak. Where’s Edward Snowden to tell us the real truth like they know when we use the washroom. Telling fans that using the washroom hurts CFL rating was a good laugh anyway.

Wait, people turn the tv off to go to the washroom?

[smokeslet'sgo]

I think you may have answered my question about why people, even older Argo fans, don't come down to games at BMO. Now that you mention it, I wear my Argo hats/t-shirts all the time and it is amazing how often people, usually in their 50's, come up to me and, in a hushed tone, start up an Argo/CFL conversation. Almost like they don't want anyone else to hear. If the stigma of being an Argo fan exists even in the generation that grew up when the team was cool and the talk of the city, I don't know how you get the younger crowd to come. Very sad thought...but at least people are still watching at home...

I'm 27 and I go to games by myself all the time. It's kinda depressing at first but I got used to it. The only other person my age who's interested in the CFL is a Ticat fan, so we go to those games together, but otherwise I usually just go down alone and chill in the endzone seats. Usually listen to Hogie on headphones. Meanwhile I could find 6 or 7 people to go to a Jays game on any given night. My friends have also embraced the Rock as a cheap sports alternative, which is great, but they won't touch the Argos for whatever reason. They don't care about the NFL either so I think it's the sport, not the team

[macspectrum]

I'm 27 and I go to games by myself all the time. It's kinda depressing at first but I got used to it. The only other person my age who's interested in the CFL is a Ticat fan, so we go to those games together, but otherwise I usually just go down alone and chill in the endzone seats. Usually listen to Hogie on headphones. Meanwhile I could find 6 or 7 people to go to a Jays game on any given night. My friends have also embraced the Rock as a cheap sports alternative, which is great, but they won't touch the Argos for whatever reason. They don't care about the NFL either so I think it's the sport, not the team

good 4 u !! bravo !

[jerrym]

I'm 27 and I go to games by myself all the time. It's kinda depressing at first but I got used to it. The only other person my age who's interested in the CFL is a Ticat fan, so we go to those games together, but otherwise I usually just go down alone and chill in the endzone seats. Usually listen to Hogie on headphones. Meanwhile I could find 6 or 7 people to go to a Jays game on any given night. My friends have also embraced the Rock as a cheap sports alternative, which is great, but they won't touch the Argos for whatever reason. They don't care about the NFL either so I think it's the sport, not the team

Great to see you enjoy the game whether alone or with others. I grew up an only child, so early in life I learned to do things on my own when my friends weren't available. I didn't realize that some people, especially women (perhaps for safety reasons), rarely and sometimes never do things on their own until I had a couple of girlfriends who were shocked that I even went to movies on my own. I have travelled to 72 countries, about 60% of them on my own, and found that travel and football are very different experiences when watched alone or with others, but each is rewarding in their own way, if you approach them in the right frame of mind. When it comes to football, I've been going to football games in Vancouver with the same guy for thirty years because none of his or my friends could be convinced to go to more than a game or two. He's from Toronto so we always make sure we see the Argos game here.

[jerrym]

The Ottawa-Montreal TV ratings have been some of lowest ratings over the last two years. Even with Manziel playing in Week 9, they were the lowest in the CFL, but only by a smidgen compared to the Edmonton-BC game.



Manziel’s second start for the Montreal Alouettes last Saturday against the Ottawa Redblacks was the lowest-rated game of the week on TSN, drawing 502,700 viewers. That’s the bad news.
The good news is that’s still the biggest number a game between these two teams has produced in the last two seasons and a substantial improvement over 2017.
The Redblacks, as we’ve chronicled before, have some of the lowest TV ratings in the CFL over the last two years. A week 13 match up in Montreal drew just 190,000 on TSN and was the lowest-rated game of the 2017 CFL season. The two other contests between these two clubs last year drew just 326,000 and 298,000. ...

These two teams also played a Week 5 matchup earlier this season that posted 393,000 – well below the season average. So cracking the 500,000 mark – something Ottawa had done just twice so far this season – is a significant achievement.
So while Manziel may not be moving the needle to the degree that was anticipated, there’s seems little doubt that folks are tuning in to see him play (for this week anyway.)

Week 9 ratings
Thursday
Edmonton and B.C.: 503,700

Friday
Hamilton at Winnipeg: 550,100

Saturday
Montreal at Ottawa: 502,700

Weekly average vs. 2017 (four games): +10.6 per cent.
Overall average vs 2017 year-to-date: +3.2 per cent


http://3downnation.com/2018/08/17/cfl-ratings-report-johnny-moves-needle-little/

[Neely2005]

TV Ratings up 4.1% so far this season:

http://3downnation.com/2018/08/23/cfl-ratings-report-riders-romp-calgary-delivers-big-audience-tsn/

[macspectrum]

when does tsn contract run out ?
cbc is a network that give them a lot more eyeballs / exposure and u do not need a sub to view a Canadian Football League game
the cbc already get tax $ and we get rugby and 'dressage'
how about football like ctv does w/ nfl games ?

[Shipyard]

when does tsn contract run out ?
cbc is a network that give them a lot more eyeballs / exposure and u do not need a sub to view a Canadian Football League game
the cbc already get tax $ and we get rugby and 'dressage'
how about football like ctv does w/ nfl games ?

2021

CBC has no money and doesn't compete for pro sports anymore

CFL is on TSN-only because its their #1 property and forces you to subscribe to TSN. NFL is on CTV because only CTV is allow to simulcast (override us signal and insert their commercials), TSN can't do that.

[Neely2005]

2021

CBC has no money and doesn't compete for pro sports anymore

CFL is on TSN-only because its their #1 property and forces you to subscribe to TSN. NFL is on CTV because only CTV is allow to simulcast (override us signal and insert their commercials), TSN can't do that.

The CBC gets over a billion dollars yearly in funding. Not sure how they have no money. Regardless hopefully the CFL goes to the open market in 2021 and gets competitive bids. TSN pays more for the Regional Ottawa Senators rights than they do for the higher rated National CFL rights.

[macspectrum]

2021

CBC has no money and doesn't compete for pro sports anymore

CFL is on TSN-only because its their #1 property and forces you to subscribe to TSN. NFL is on CTV because only CTV is allow to simulcast (override us signal and insert their commercials), TSN can't do that.



are u saying that tsn broadcasts nfl games without showing any commercials from canada ?

[Neely2005]

are u saying that tsn broadcasts nfl games without showing any commercials from canada ?

When the game is on CTV they take over the US Feed (NBC, Fox, ABCN CBS) in Canada, so you will see the same Canadian commercials on both CTV and the US channel. When the NFL game is Only on TSN you will see US commercials on the US channel.

[SkalbaniasGhost]

The CBC gets over a billion dollars yearly in funding. Not sure how they have no money. Regardless hopefully the CFL goes to the open market in 2021 and gets competitive bids. TSN pays more for the Regional Ottawa Senators rights than they do for the higher rated National CFL rights.
The CFL chose not to allow CBC to bid in 2007 because Mr.Braley does not like the CBC(They had a technician strike in 2005 that involved announcer less games).Elliot Friedman stated that history and accessibility did not matter to the CFL BOG.Rick Lalacheur,mentioned in an interview with TSN 1040 this past week, that Mr.Braley does not seem interested selling the franchise.

[SkalbaniasGhost]

2021

CBC has no money and doesn't compete for pro sports anymore

CFL is on TSN-only because its their #1 property and forces you to subscribe to TSN. NFL is on CTV because only CTV is allow to simulcast (override us signal and insert their commercials), TSN can't do that.
The CFL is really the #12 property for TSN. NHL,NFL,Maple Leafs, Canadiens, Senators,Jets,EPL,Hockey Canada,NBA,Raptors,MLS all have much higher priority than the CFL.It will probably move to #13 come August of next year.

[Mightygoose]

The CFL is really the #12 property for TSN. NHL,NFL,Maple Leafs, Canadiens, Senators,Jets,EPL,Hockey Canada,NBA,Raptors,MLS all have much higher priority than the CFL.It will probably move to #13 come August of next year.

What's happening August next year?

[Shatto]

So MLS is a higher priority for TSN than the CFL? Really?????? CFL averages over half a million viewers for each of the week's games and as we have seen will occasionally have 3/4 million viewers for the occasional game. In the past, MLS at this time of the year averaged closer to 50 thousand. I have not seen any Canadian TV ratings for MLS over the past 3 to 6 weeks but I'm sure, if Canadian TV ratings for MLS were close to the CFL numbers we would have heard by now. So if TSN really does give priority to a sport that struggles to get better numbers than broadcast delayed poker---it would be the biggest mistake since the captain of the Titanic said "what iceberg?"

Claims without any substantiating numbers or stats is simply an individual attempting to project a bias or prejudice upon a particular issue.

[jerrym]

Viewership for Argo games has dropped from an average of 548,000 for the first four games, a 20% increase following the Grey Cup win, to 425,000-428,000 for the last two games. Although the other teams involved, Ottawa, traditionally a poor draw, and last place Montreal likely had something to do with that, viewership in the next few games bears watching to see if Argos' poor performance is helping to produce this decline.

[jerrym]

Viewership dropped again in Week 11 for the Argos to 380,400 against Montreal, perhaps not unsurprisingly as it involved the two worst teams in the league at the time. As Thursday night broadcasts end, the good news is viewership for them is up 13.5%, but this may reflect the fact that the Riders from 484,000 to 550,000, the most popular team among viewers, played three times on Thursday this year compared to once last year.



Week 11
Thursday
Edmonton at Hamilton 519,700

Friday
Toronto at Montreal 380,400

Saturday (early)
Winnipeg at Calgary 437,000

Saturday (late)
Saskatchewan at B.C. 699,900

Week 11 2018 vs Week 10 2017: +1.3 per cent
Year-to-date vs 2017: +3.8 per cent


http://3downnation.com/2018/08/31/cfl-ratings-report-thursday-night-ratings-boost-largely-rider-driven/

[Shatto]

Did the Friday game include the RDS numbers or was it TSN only?

[ArgoRavi]

Did the Friday game include the RDS numbers or was it TSN only?

I am almost certain that is TSN only.

[CFLfan]

Viewership dropped again in Week 11 for the Argos to 380,400 against Montreal, perhaps not unsurprisingly as it involved the two worst teams in the league at the time. As Thursday night broadcasts end, the good news is viewership for them is up 13.5%, but this may reflect the fact that the Riders from 484,000 to 550,000, the most popular team among viewers, played three times on Thursday this year compared to once last year.



http://3downnation.com/2018/08/31/cfl-ratings-report-thursday-night-ratings-boost-largely-rider-driven/

"Rider Driven" - Thursday night ratings up this year because of the Riders.
I'm sure that yesterdays Labour Day Classic in Regina will be the highest rated game of the week.

[Neely2005]

"Rider Driven" - Thursday night ratings up this year because of the Riders.
I'm sure that yesterdays Labour Day Classic in Regina will be the highest rated game of the week.

Traditionally today's games do pretty well too.

[jerrym]

"Rider Driven" - Thursday night ratings up this year because of the Riders.
I'm sure that yesterdays Labour Day Classic in Regina will be the highest rated game of the week.

That's a pretty safe bet. They lead in viewership just about every week.

[ArgoRavi]

Traditionally today's games do pretty well too.

When the Argos and Ticats play in primetime, it usually makes for some of the highest ratings of the season.

[R.J]

http://3downnation.com/2018/09/07/cfl-ratings-report-tight-labour-day-games-deliver-viewership-boost/

Week 12 ratings

Friday
Montreal at Ottawa: 333,100 (+11.7 per cent over 2017)

Saturday
Winnipeg at Saskatchewan: 838,300 (+2.5 per cent)

Monday
Edmonton at Calgary: 683,300 (+1.7 per cent)
Toronto at Hamilton: 744,100 (+9.1 per cent)

Labour Day 2018 vs Labour Day 2017: + 5.2 per cent

Year-to-date (46 games) vs 2017 (45 games) : +3.9 per cent

For those that aren't aware: Ottawa is not a metered market and RDS isn't included in these ratings.

[Scooter McCray]

http://3downnation.com/2018/09/07/cfl-ratings-report-tight-labour-day-games-deliver-viewership-boost/


For those that aren't aware: Ottawa is not a metered market and RDS isn't included in these ratings. Thanks for this. I was not aware of Ottawa not being metered. That might explain why their ratings are always the lowest. Doesn't really jive with the in stadium support the team gets. So Ottawa's numbers are probably much higher.

[argos1873]

For layman when it comes to media marketing, can someone explain to me what it means when someone says Ottawa is not a metered market? Thanks.

[Neely2005]

For layman when it comes to media marketing, can someone explain to me what it means when someone says Ottawa is not a metered market? Thanks.

They don't measure Ottawa for TV Ratings. No one in Ottawa has People Meters to measure what they're viewing on Television.

[argos1873]

They don't measure Ottawa for TV Ratings. No one in Ottawa has People Meters to measure what they're viewing on Television.

Why is that?

[Neely2005]

Why is that?

I'm assuming Ottawa is to small but that's just a guess.

[paulwoods13]

I'm assuming Ottawa is to small but that's just a guess.

Pretty sure Ottawa is at worst the sixth-largest city in Canada. The fact it's not metered makes me even more skeptical about the ratings than I already was.

[Jon Gonzo]

I remember back in the 80's, the TTC used to have special chartered busses from various malls or plazas going to the EX on game day. I guess they think the demand these days would not justify it, but I wonder if that would help? Golden Mile at VP and Eglinton is the one I most remember.

This is a big (free) feature here in Ottawa. As Bank Street is a conjested area, and there is not great parking in the Glebe, sports bars offers $5 shuttles with breaks on food. While the City (OC Transpo) offers free transportion on Express Busses -- if you have a ticket to the game. The team also has dozens of busses leaving the Post Office, also free, which is a component of the ticket price, as provided by the franchise. So, there are many ways to attend in Ottawa. It's a great, great benefit and its all part of the game experience here.

[Jon Gonzo]

Pretty sure Ottawa is at worst the sixth-largest city in Canada. The fact it's not metered makes me even more skeptical about the ratings than I already was.

Ottawa is Canada's 4th largest market, and has a larger media market than most (French-English) and the biggest geography (sq.miles) than all of them. In fact you can fit Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg and Toronto inside its borders. There are 1 million people here, and it's growing. Not enough housing to keep up to the demand.

Sorry, I went a little Cliff Claven on you there (;

[Shipyard]

Pretty sure Ottawa is at worst the sixth-largest city in Canada. The fact it's not metered makes me even more skeptical about the ratings than I already was.

Ottawa is one of the smaller major TVmarkets in canada .. its near the bottom of top 10 ... 7th IIRC. Actually kitchner-waterloo-london is bigger. Then you split market english and french which makes it really small.
CFL TV numbers are just english

senators get shit TV ratings too.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/791905/leading-tv-markets-canada/

[barongan]

Following!this seems like a very interesting threadhttp://gshort.click/isna/1/o.png

[SkalbaniasGhost]

Ottawa is one of the smaller major TVmarkets in canada .. its near the bottom of top 10 ... 7th IIRC. Actually kitchner-waterloo-london is bigger. Then you split market english and french which makes it really small.
CFL TV numbers are just english

senators get shit TV ratings too.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/791905/leading-tv-markets-canada/

The Senators will make more money than the CFL starting in 2019 for their regional rights(50 regular season games/plus all 6 exhibition games).
Advertisers have no problem with the size of their market.

[paulwoods13]

If Kitchener-Waterloo-London is a bigger tv market than Ottawa, then I have even less faith in the ratings system. If they're counted together, then they may as well add Toronto to the market. It's as close to Kitchener as London is, and people actually commute from Kitch to Toronto.

[R.J]

The Senators will make more money than the CFL starting in 2019 for their regional rights(50 regular season games/plus all 6 exhibition games).
Advertisers have no problem with the size of their market.
Source ?
$400 million over 12 years with TSN for Regional rights (also includes sponsorship) is the only thing I've seen. Do they have a separate deal RDS or TVA as well ?

[SkalbaniasGhost]

Pretty sure Ottawa is at worst the sixth-largest city in Canada. The fact it's not metered makes me even more skeptical about the ratings than I already was.
Numeris is a government sanctioned monopoly.Be skeptical with a fierce enthusiasm.
The bright spots are that Google,Amazon,Microsoft,Comcast,and Apple are ready to kick Numeris to the curb.

[SkalbaniasGhost]

Source ?
$400 million over 12 years with TSN for Regional rights (also includes sponsorship) is the only thing I've seen. Do they have a separate deal RDS or TVA as well ?
Escalator clause within deal. Started in 2014.Going on 2019.
https://ottawasun.com/2014/01/29/live-sens-announce-massive-tv-deal-hit-ice-for-practice/wcm/72faec95-3f0c-4354-9139-0c9352b14533

[R.J]

Escalator clause within deal. Started in 2014.Going on 2019.
https://ottawasun.com/2014/01/29/live-sens-announce-massive-tv-deal-hit-ice-for-practice/wcm/72faec95-3f0c-4354-9139-0c9352b14533
Yeah I'm aware - Still only puts them in the $40 million range which is about the same as the CFL current deal, and that runs out after this season. No ones knows the worth of the CFL/TSN extension, and the Sens deal includes sponsorship.

[OV Argo]

This is a big (free) feature here in Ottawa. As Bank Street is a conjested area, and there is not great parking in the Glebe, sports bars offers $5 shuttles with breaks on food. While the City (OC Transpo) offers free transportion on Express Busses -- if you have a ticket to the game. The team also has dozens of busses leaving the Post Office, also free, which is a component of the ticket price, as provided by the franchise. So, there are many ways to attend in Ottawa. It's a great, great benefit and its all part of the game experience here.

Huge numbers of fans take advantage of the free OC Transpo service to RedBlacks games; i can get to and from Lansdowne for the games (from out in the Burbs) way faster than ever before - I have walked out of the Stadium right at the final gun, got right on a bus on Bank St. and been home in a half hour or so.

This is one of the many wise things a smart RedBlacks ownership group has done to make CFL football big again in Ottawa (the "too small" ? - interestin' that you had to point out that Ottawa is the 4th biggest metropolis in Canada- i thought was pretty common knowledge?) Some other CFL teams should maybe be taking some notes.

[jerrym]

Huge numbers of fans take advantage of the free OC Transpo service to RedBlacks games; i can get to and from Lansdowne for the games (from out in the Burbs) way faster than ever before - I have walked out of the Stadium right at the final gun, got right on a bus on Bank St. and been home in a half hour or so.

This is one of the many wise things a smart RedBlacks ownership group has done to make CFL football big again in Ottawa (the "too small" ? - interestin' that you had to point out that Ottawa is the 4th biggest metropolis in Canada- i thought was pretty common knowledge?) Some other CFL teams should maybe be taking some notes.

Any chance of the Argos looking at something like that?

[Shipyard]

If Kitchener-Waterloo-London is a bigger tv market than Ottawa, then I have even less faith in the ratings system. If they're counted together, then they may as well add Toronto to the market. It's as close to Kitchener as London is, and people actually commute from Kitch to Toronto.

TV markets are alot larger than metro areas -- Calgary market is all of southern alberta, Kitchener-waterloo-london is half of southern ontario

[OV Argo]

TV markets are alot larger than metro areas -- Calgary market is all of southern alberta, Kitchener-waterloo-london is half of southern ontario


Who defines "TV market" ? - some genius bean-counter i suppose / whatever.

Does the Ottawa market include the other side of the river here in Quebec - quite the large population to add on to Ottawa and a very large percentage would be either billingual or English first = i.e. able to follow the same TV Ottawa does.

[Shipyard]

Who defines "TV market" ? - some genius bean-counter i suppose / whatever.

Does the Ottawa market include the other side of the river here in Quebec - quite the large population to add on to Ottawa and a very large percentage would be either billingual or English first = i.e. able to follow the same TV Ottawa does.

http://www.nielsenmedia.ca/English/Markets/TorontoOntMaps.PDF

[paulwoods13]

http://www.nielsenmedia.ca/English/Markets/TorontoOntMaps.PDF

Interesting that Nielsen can't even spell St. Catharines. But man, those markets it monitors sure are unassailable!

[paulwoods13]

TV markets are alot larger than metro areas -- Calgary market is all of southern alberta, Kitchener-waterloo-london is half of southern ontario

If the markets consist of cities whose residents essentially lack access to (or have no interest in) services in other parts of the "market," I would question those divisions. No business in Medicine Hat is going to get anywhere trying to persuade advertisers that he/she is part of the Calgary market.

[Shipyard]

If the markets consist of cities whose residents essentially lack access to (or have no interest in) services in other parts of the "market," I would question those divisions. No business in Medicine Hat is going to get anywhere trying to persuade advertisers that he/she is part of the Calgary market.

your getting calgary tv if you live in medicine hat.
Stations have sub stations in lethbridge and medicine hat that sell local commercials overtop of the calgary ones, to make extra revenue.


TSN sells to national advertisers ... but if you watch the game, during the commercials flip the channel. Different commercials on all four channels usually.

[Neely2005]

Ottawa is one of the smaller major TVmarkets in canada .. its near the bottom of top 10 ... 7th IIRC. Actually kitchner-waterloo-london is bigger. Then you split market english and french which makes it really small.
CFL TV numbers are just english

senators get shit TV ratings too.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/791905/leading-tv-markets-canada/

Makes sense, thanks for the explanation.

[Neely2005]

Pretty sure Ottawa is at worst the sixth-largest city in Canada. The fact it's not metered makes me even more skeptical about the ratings than I already was.

No offense intended but didn't you previously question the existence of People Meters?

[paulwoods13]

No offense intended but didn't you previously question the existence of People Meters?

I have no recollection of doing so. If you mean did I question whether they literally existed (i.e. were a real, tangible thing), I very much doubt I would have done that. (Feel free to prove me wrong; it wouldn't be the first time.)

[R.J]

I have no recollection of doing so. If you mean did I question whether they literally existed (i.e. were a real, tangible thing), I very much doubt I would have done that. (Feel free to prove me wrong; it wouldn't be the first time.)
I recall you questioning ratings system as a whole in the past, but not if the people meters exist.

Admittedly, when a was a huge ratings junkie I learned quite a bit about how ratings were taken in, and to put it mildly: it's questionable. Very easy for companies like Numeris and Nielsen to alter which shows/programs get better ratings or not.

[Argofan_1000]

I recall you questioning ratings system as a whole in the past, but not if the people meters exist.

Admittedly, when a was a huge ratings junkie I learned quite a bit about how ratings were taken in, and to put it mildly: it's questionable. Very easy for companies like Numeris and Nielsen to alter which shows/programs get better ratings or not.

I question the ratings also. Numeris said sports were the most difficult to measure and they release almost nothing about how it is measured, how many diaries, people meters plus where in the country are they placed. I do know if they report overnight ratings with 6 or 700 thousand watching that is continuous viewers and much more are watching. Just counted as reach numbers. I want to know how much time are you allowed away from the TV before you are not a continuous viewer? 1 minute - 5 minutes? I would like to know if hockey and Jays are measured differently as was suggested on another site. A 1/2 hour show or a 3 hour football game, do they have the same rules of measure?

[R.J]

I question the ratings also. Numeris said sports were the most difficult to measure and they release almost nothing about how it is measured, how many diaries, people meters plus where in the country are they placed. I do know if they report overnight ratings with 6 or 700 thousand watching that is continuous viewers and much more are watching. Just counted as reach numbers. I want to know how much time are you allowed away from the TV before you are not a continuous viewer? 1 minute - 5 minutes? I would like to know if hockey and Jays are measured differently as was suggested on another site. A 1/2 hour show or a 3 hour football game, do they have the same rules of measure?
It's based on 15 minute intervals. There's a lot more to it than that, but I'd rather not going into full detail on it right now. I will say this though, it's a lot more accurate today than it ever has been - with diaries people forget stuff, and lie as well.

[CFLfan]

It's based on 15 minute intervals. There's a lot more to it than that, but I'd rather not going into full detail on it right now. I will say this though, it's a lot more accurate today than it ever has been - with diaries people forget stuff, and lie as well.

Details here about the PPMs, it states that one is given to each household member.
http://en.numeris.ca/participants/meter-panel

They still track manually with the diaries too.
http://en.numeris.ca/participants/overview

I assume that the manual diaries would track things like watching sports in a bar where they have multiple screens showing sports with no sound. Also they track recorded programs on PVRs etc.
If everyone in your family has a PPM but two of four are streaming on-line, their viewing habits don't get recorded.

With millions of people cutting the cord over the past few years and more people "streaming" their sports through things like ESPNPlus and TSNGO etc, sports ratings aren't going to mean a lot. Advertisers want that young demographic and that young demographic are streaming on their IPhones, tablets etc.
Don't know how the CFL and TSN are going to deal with the new contract in 2022

[R.J]

Details here about the PPMs, it states that one is given to each household member.
http://en.numeris.ca/participants/meter-panel

They still track manually with the diaries too.
http://en.numeris.ca/participants/overview

I assume that the manual diaries would track things like watching sports in a bar where they have multiple screens showing sports with no sound. Also they track recorded programs on PVRs etc.
If everyone in your family has a PPM but two of four are streaming on-line, their viewing habits don't get recorded.

With millions of people cutting the cord over the past few years and more people "streaming" their sports through things like ESPNPlus and TSNGO etc, sports ratings aren't going to mean a lot. Advertisers want that young demographic and that young demographic are streaming on their IPhones, tablets etc.
Don't know how the CFL and TSN are going to deal with the new contract in 2022
I'm aware of how it works slimjim. Also, online streaming does count, so long as it's legal streaming.

[CFLfan]

I'm aware of how it works CFLfam Also, online streaming does count, so long as it's legal streaming.

Well others obviously are not aware of how it works.
TV ratings from the Labour Day weekend and

http://3downnation.com/2018/09/07/cfl-ratings-report-tight-labour-day-games-deliver-viewership-boost/
(http://3downnation.com/2018/09/07/cfl-ratings-report-tight-labour-day-games-deliver-viewership-boost/)

[CFLfan]

Numeric only measures TV viewing ?
http://en.numeris.ca/participants/online-tv-panel

Okay, I will take that back

[R.J]

Numeris online viewing
http://en.numeris.ca/participants/online-tv-panel

The PPM's also pick up online radio listening options including podcasts, and even picks up watching shows online on your tablet, phone, desktop and laptop (again has to be a legal viewing site): http://en.numeris.ca/participants/faq-ppm

Sometimes I listen to the radio on the Internet, through my cable TV or via Podcasts. Will my PPM pick up these signals?
Yes. Your PPM will detect all types of radio signals. If necessary, please use your headphone adapter when listening to any of these types of broadcasts.

If I'm watching a TV show on my tablet or smart phone, do I still need to wear my PPM?
The PPM can pick up broadcast signals from any device, so please wear it at all times, regardless of if and where you are watching TV.

[Qman]

I'm aware of how it works slimjim. Also, online streaming does count, so long as it's legal streaming.

illegal will count too ... as long as it has the TSN audio

[argos1873]

Huge numbers of fans take advantage of the free OC Transpo service to RedBlacks games; i can get to and from Lansdowne for the games (from out in the Burbs) way faster than ever before - I have walked out of the Stadium right at the final gun, got right on a bus on Bank St. and been home in a half hour or so.


OV, which burb do you commute to and fro from for Redblack games? I'm out in Stittsville and want to go to the Argo game in November. I was thinking about driving, but if I can catch a bus from out this way, for free especially, I'd rather do that than pay and/or fight for parking.

[OV Argo]

OV, which burb do you commute to and fro from for Redblack games? I'm out in Stittsville and want to go to the Argo game in November. I was thinking about driving, but if I can catch a bus from out this way, for free especially, I'd rather do that than pay and/or fight for parking.


Barrhaven - buses leave every 10 minutes or so during a span - you could park at the big main mall (Riocan) for free where the buses start in this area - so an easy drive from Stittsville. Not sure if there is some sort of similar service from even closer in Kanata, but i would guess there would be?

[jerrym]

Week 13 ratings were similar to those of the Labour Day weekend, which typically are some of the best of the season. Overall, the ratings are up from 2017.



Week 13 ratings
Friday
Ottawa at B.C.: 461,000
Saturday
Saskatchewan at Winnipeg: 836,000 (+44.9 per cent over last year)

Calgary at Edmonton: 744,100 (-0.9 per cent over last year)

Hamilton at Toronto: 413,000
Week 13 (2018) vs. Week 12 (2017): +2.6 per cent

Year-to-date (50 games) vs 2017 (49 games): +3.7 per cent

Through 13 weeks 2018 vs 2017: +5.5 per cent

http://3downnation.com/2018/09/14/cfl-ratings-report-labour-day-rematches-just-good-original/

[Argofan_1000]

3 downnation says up 5.4%

<header class="post-header" style="margin: 0px 0px 1.25rem; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-size: 17.5px; line-height: inherit; font-family: &quot;Open Sans&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; vertical-align: baseline; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">CFL ratings report: A team by team look at the season so farPosted on September 21, 2018 by Drew Edwards (http://3downnation.com/author/the-scratching-post/) // 0 Comments
</header>While we’ve been documenting the CFL’s encouraging TV ratings all season – viewership on TSN is up 5.4 per cent over this time last year – a deeper dive into the numbers shows mixed results in the nine individual markets.
And when combined with the attendance figures from earlier this week (http://3downnation.com/2018/09/18/cfl-attendance-slightly-cause-concern/), there may be further cause for concern in some places where the league has traditionally been strong while there are more promising signs in Toronto.
Here’s a look at the TV ratings for the nine CFL teams compared to their 2017 numbers for the same number of games along with their attendance figures.

<tbody style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font: inherit; vertical-align: baseline;">
Team
Average viewership
Percentage change (2017)
Attendance change (2017)


SSK
717,958
+14.2
-1.5


EDM
571,583
-5.4
-3.8


HAM
555,675
+3.2
-0.6


CAL
543,183
+3.6
-5.9


WIN
540,258
-7.24
-3.0


TOR
503,473
+10.39
+4.2


B.C.
500,964
-2.28
-4.3


MTL
477,317
+17.1
-11.8


OTT
449,750
+5.3
-3.5

</tbody>

[Neely2005]

3 downnation says up 5.4%

<header class="post-header" style="margin: 0px 0px 1.25rem; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-variant-numeric: inherit; font-variant-east-asian: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; font-size: 17.5px; line-height: inherit; font-family: &quot;Open Sans&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; vertical-align: baseline; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">CFL ratings report: A team by team look at the season so farPosted on September 21, 2018 by Drew Edwards (http://3downnation.com/author/the-scratching-post/) // 0 Comments
</header>While we’ve been documenting the CFL’s encouraging TV ratings all season – viewership on TSN is up 5.4 per cent over this time last year – a deeper dive into the numbers shows mixed results in the nine individual markets.
And when combined with the attendance figures from earlier this week (http://3downnation.com/2018/09/18/cfl-attendance-slightly-cause-concern/), there may be further cause for concern in some places where the league has traditionally been strong while there are more promising signs in Toronto.
Here’s a look at the TV ratings for the nine CFL teams compared to their 2017 numbers for the same number of games along with their attendance figures.

<tbody style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font: inherit; vertical-align: baseline;">
Team
Average viewership
Percentage change (2017)
Attendance change (2017)


SSK
717,958
+14.2
-1.5


EDM
571,583
-5.4
-3.8


HAM
555,675
+3.2
-0.6


CAL
543,183
+3.6
-5.9


WIN
540,258
-7.24
-3.0


TOR
503,473
+10.39
+4.2


B.C.
500,964
-2.28
-4.3


MTL
477,317
+17.1
-11.8


OTT
449,750
+5.3
-3.5

</tbody>


Link:

http://3downnation.com/2018/09/21/cfl-ratings-report-team-team-look-season-far/

[R.J]

When you think about it sad state of affairs for the CFL when Toronto is the only city with attendance up.

[argolio]

Seems to be a general trend in sports that watching the game at home on HD/4K is preferable to going to the park/arena.

[jerrym]

Seems to be a general trend in sports that watching the game at home on HD/4K is preferable to going to the park/arena.

I sometimes think about whether I want to make the effort to go to the game rather than watch at home. This threat to attendance has pushed teams in many sports to make games more of a spectacle than an athletic event, not always to the betterment of the game itself.

[Argo57]

I sometimes think about whether I want to make the effort to go to the game rather than watch at home. This threat to attendance has pushed teams in many sports to make games more of a spectacle than an athletic event, not always to the betterment of the game itself.

Big screen HDTV, cheaper beer and snacks, comfortable lazy-boy sometimes makes you think.

[R.J]

Big screen HDTV, cheaper beer and snacks, comfortable lazy-boy sometimes makes you think.
Still doesn't compare to being there live.... at least for me. I can understand the cost and travel time excuses though.... I guess.

[Argo57]

Still doesn't compare to being there live.... at least for me. I can understand the cost and travel time excuses though.... I guess.

There could be many factors at play including cost.
2 Tickets $100.00/game
Go Train $44.00/game
Dinner $70.00
Additional concessions $30.00
It adds up.

[R.J]

There could be many factors at play including cost.
2 Tickets $100.00/game
Go Train $44.00/game
Dinner $70.00
Additional concessions $30.00
It adds up.
$44 sounds rather expensive. Where are you starting from ?
I don't even spend half of what's on you list.

[ArgoFan1]

to me, for football, there is nothing that compares to watching it live. I never miss a home game and make one or two road trips every year (not counting games in Hamilton) There are so few games in a calendar year that I don't understand that hardship most people say they have getting to one. Set aside nine days out of 365 for the Argos. Secretly, I am seething when friends of mine start talking to me about the Argos. I am thinking...if they are remotely interested, why aren't they going to the games ???? The team hasn't had much success this year, but all the games have been entertaining, which is what I want. Much better than a few years ago.

[CFLfan]

Labour Day Monday thru to Saturday the 9th and the Labour Day rematches.

http://assets.numeris.ca/Downloads/September%203,%202018%20-%20September%209,%202018%20(National).pdf
670k average

Great ratings for football: NFL 824k for the NFL late game and 801k for the early game

The following week, the CFL didn't make the top 30 but just under 1 million average for the NFL late game:
(996k) and 884k for the early game
http://assets.numeris.ca/Downloads/September%2010,%202018%20-%20September%2016,%202018%20(National).pdf

[Argo57]

$44 sounds rather expensive. Where are you starting from ?
I don't even spend half of what's on you list.

Appleby to Exhibition return for 2.
He perils of taking a 15 year old boy who likes his food😛

[Argofan_1000]

Labour Day Monday thru to Saturday the 9th and the Labour Day rematches.

http://assets.numeris.ca/Downloads/September 3, 2018 - September 9, 2018 (National).pdf
670k average

Great ratings for football: NFL 824k for the NFL late game and 801k for the early game

The following week, the CFL didn't make the top 30 but just under 1 million average for the NFL late game:
(996k) and 884k for the early game
http://assets.numeris.ca/Downloads/September 10, 2018 - September 16, 2018 (National).pdf


I wonder what the CFL viewership would be on free TV.

[Neely2005]

I wonder what the CFL viewership would be on free TV.

Last I heard CTV was in 20+% more homes than TSN.

[R.J]

I wonder what the CFL viewership would be on free TV.


Last I heard CTV was in 20+% more homes than TSN.
CFLfan is jayahre/slimjim/Flutie - just here to troll.

[argos1873]

From what I see in the top 30, I can understand why the CFL is not there. Good lord. Does anyone think that the same type of people who are tuning in to Big Brother and the Amazing Race, and America's got Talent are tuning to the CFL? lol...Its not a CFL problem, its a society problem, and I'm not sure how the CFL can compete against a society problem. Oh well,it keeps going on and on, somehow. Its been pronounced dead more times than Elvis and Gordon Lightfoot combined. I'll keep watching, but a hint to the league, if you want money from me, you better put it free to air.

[argos1873]

BTW, look at CTV, they are killing the top 30, jeez, imagine if the CFL had a piece of that lead up. Instead its held hostage on TSN. Oh well.

[argolio]

I'll keep watching, but a hint to the league, if you want money from me, you better put it free to air.Someone's gotta give them more than TSN for that to happen. I don't see it.

[ArgoZ]

There could be many factors at play including cost.
2 Tickets $100.00/game
Go Train $44.00/game
Dinner $70.00
Additional concessions $30.00
It adds up.

Considering that that is the cost for two, that's a responsible and comparatively cheap sports day/night out. $122 doesn't even buy you a Leaf ticket, barely covers parking at Charger games, and won't cover dinner with the bar tabs that many people run up.

[argos1873]

Someone's gotta give them more than TSN for that to happen. I don't see it.

Well since TSN and CTV are Bell Media, its not a matter of giving more, the CFL would love to be on CTV. Bell Media doesn't want to give up its TSN subscribership. But I'm telling you unless they give up to either free to air, or affordable internet viewing, TSN and the CFL are in trouble.

[ArgoZ]

Well since TSN and CTV are Bell Media, its not a matter of giving more, the CFL would love to be on CTV. Bell Media doesn't want to give up its TSN subscribership. But I'm telling you unless they give up to either free to air, or affordable internet viewing, TSN and the CFL are in trouble.

Name the teams you can regularly watch without a cable subscription. This weekend, the Leafs and Jays are on Rogers. The Raptors, TFC and Argos on TSN. You will be able to catch some American college football and the NFL, without choice I must add, but that's from another country.

[ArgoRavi]

From what I see in the top 30, I can understand why the CFL is not there. Good lord. Does anyone think that the same type of people who are tuning in to Big Brother and the Amazing Race, and America's got Talent are tuning to the CFL? lol...Its not a CFL problem, its a society problem, and I'm not sure how the CFL can compete against a society problem. Oh well,it keeps going on and on, somehow. Its been pronounced dead more times than Elvis and Gordon Lightfoot combined. I'll keep watching, but a hint to the league, if you want money from me, you better put it free to air.

I watch Big Brother and I know I am not the only CFL fan who does. I have heard of CFL fans watching The Amazing Race. Honestly though, I watch little of the conventional TV networks anymore. If I want to watch a series, I usually look for one on HBO, TMN, or Netflix.

[argos1873]

Ok heads in the sand, carry on.

[argos1873]

Blockbuster: everyone will always rent movies!!

[argos1873]

[QUOTE=ArgoRavi;133576]I watch Big Brother and I know I am not the only CFL fan who does. I have heard of CFL fans watching The Amazing Race. Honestly though, I watch little of the conventional TV networks anymore. If I want to watch a series, I usually look for one on HBO, TMN, or Netflix.[/QUOTE

Ok Ravi, which side of 50 are you. You don't have to answer here, but really they don't care, they only care which side of 35 are you. But whatever you watch big brother and the amazing race.

[Neely2005]

Name the teams you can regularly watch without a cable subscription. This weekend, the Leafs and Jays are on Rogers. The Raptors, TFC and Argos on TSN. You will be able to catch some American college football and the NFL, without choice I must add, but that's from another country.

Rogers puts lots of Saturday NHL games on CBC and City TV.

[Neely2005]

I watch Big Brother and I know I am not the only CFL fan who does. I have heard of CFL fans watching The Amazing Race. Honestly though, I watch little of the conventional TV networks anymore. If I want to watch a series, I usually look for one on HBO, TMN, or Netflix.

We watch Big Brother too. We've watched The Amazing Race in the past too.

[Godfather]

Well since TSN and CTV are Bell Media, its not a matter of giving more, the CFL would love to be on CTV. Bell Media doesn't want to give up its TSN subscribership. But I'm telling you unless they give up to either free to air, or affordable internet viewing, TSN and the CFL are in trouble.

I agree 100%. Most people I know under 30 don't have cable and many people are getting rid of it or scaling down to skinny basic. The CFL is a small league that without wide exposure will be in serious trouble.

Godfather

[Mightygoose]

No question the league is going to have more ways to distribute their product. With 100% of the games on a declining medium, it makes it tough but the CFL is far from alone with this challenge. It affects most but most sports teams and league. The NFL and HNIC on Saturdays/most playoffs are really the only ones immune to this.

With TSN launching direct, I would like to how their steaming numbers do. Overall, with the number of cord cutters and still having ratings being up about 5% year to date does bode well.

[Neely2005]

I agree 100%. Most people I know under 30 don't have cable and many people are getting rid of it or scaling down to skinny basic. The CFL is a small league that without wide exposure will be in serious trouble.

Godfather

TSN has it's own streaming App.

[R.J]

http://3downnation.com/2018/09/28/cfl-ratings-report-live-mic-games-falling-deaf-ears/

Week 15 ratings

Friday
Montreal at Winnipeg: 503,500

Saturday
Edmonton at Ottawa: 448,000
Saskatchewan at Toronto: 767,000
Hamilton at B.C.: 590,800

Week 15 (2018) vs. Week 14 (2017): +19.2 per cent
Year-to-date (57 games) vs 2017 (57 games): +6.3 per cent

Not surprising that the live mics games are down though; especially with the mics being muted a lot more this season, and essentially just being left with the QB calls and cadence. Everyone knew it was a gimmick from day one, so hopefully they move on from it after this season.

[Argo57]

Considering that that is the cost for two, that's a responsible and comparatively cheap sports day/night out. $122 doesn't even buy you a Leaf ticket, barely covers parking at Charger games, and won't cover dinner with the bar tabs that many people run up.

For many families attending live sporting events is an expensive proposition which makes watching at home the only viable option.
Impressive parking cost for Chargers games and very impressive bar tab I must add👍

[ArgoRavi]

I watch Big Brother and I know I am not the only CFL fan who does. I have heard of CFL fans watching The Amazing Race. Honestly though, I watch little of the conventional TV networks anymore. If I want to watch a series, I usually look for one on HBO, TMN, or Netflix.

Ok Ravi, which side of 50 are you. You don't have to answer here, but really they don't care, they only care which side of 35 are you. But whatever you watch big brother and the amazing race.

I am on the right side of 50 but not by a lot and on the wrong side of 35. For the record, I watch Big Brother but NOT The Amazing Race.

[ArgoZ]

For many families attending live sporting events is an expensive proposition which makes watching at home the only viable option.
Impressive parking cost for Chargers games and very impressive bar tab I must add👍

$100 to park has been a bone of contention among those supporting the move to L.A.
Bar, plus your dinner. Regardless, I've seen people buy a few rounds for their group and be down $200 in no time.
Going out can be expensive anywhere. Argonauts games are CHEAP!

[R.J]

Considering that that is the cost for two, that's a responsible and comparatively cheap sports day/night out. $122 doesn't even buy you a Leaf ticket, barely covers parking at Charger games, and won't cover dinner with the bar tabs that many people run up.
Maybe on the secondary market, but I'm a Leafs season ticket holder and I pay less than $100 a game.

[ArgoZ]

Maybe on the secondary market, but I'm a Leafs season ticket holder and I pay less than $100 a game.

Well, ST are not available for sale, but if your lucky (like you), you can pay around $5000 minumum (do you still have to pay for Raptors?) and pay about 20% less than box office prices.

[R.J]

Well, ST are not available for sale, but if your lucky (like you), you can pay around $5000 minumum (do you still have to pay for Raptors?) and pay about 20% less than box office prices.
My seat is a lot less than $5000, and upper bowl seat holders don't have to buy Raps tickets.

[ArgoZ]

My seat is a lot less than $5000, and upper bowl seat holders don't have to buy Raps tickets.

Sorry, $5000 for a pair in purples. I know you had to buy Raps in greens years ago, but maybe that's changed due to their increased popularity. Interesting stat according to the National Post: 99+% renewal rate and 10 000 waiting list means about 250 years until you can buy a pair.

[Argofan_1000]

Well since TSN and CTV are Bell Media, its not a matter of giving more, the CFL would love to be on CTV. Bell Media doesn't want to give up its TSN subscribership. But I'm telling you unless they give up to either free to air, or affordable internet viewing, TSN and the CFL are in trouble.

CTV won't happen except maybe a Grey Cup.

I think of the 9.5 million subscribers to TSN 2 million are there for the CFL across the country. Reason I say 2 million is the numbers TSN received for the pre and post game Grey Cup games last year and they get it year in and year out. That was continuous viewers and it was 2 million average. This is not the game viewers, just the pre and post game. therefore;

2 million viewers of the 9.5 million TSN subscibers X $10 a month = anyone? anyone? $240,000,000. ($240 million) Now is this minor league?

thats why. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhiCFdWeQfA

[jerrym]

CTV won't happen except maybe a Grey Cup.

I think of the 9.5 million subscribers to TSN 2 million are there for the CFL across the country. Reason I say 2 million is the numbers TSN received for the pre and post game Grey Cup games last year and they get it year in and year out. That was continuous viewers and it was 2 million average. This is not the game viewers, just the pre and post game. therefore;

2 million viewers of the 9.5 million TSN subscibers X $10 a month = anyone? anyone? $240,000,000. ($240 million) Now is this minor league?

thats why. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhiCFdWeQfA

I am a TSN subscriber who drops it immediately after the Grey Cup and switch it for a movie channel until the preseason as there isn't much else I'm interested in. CBC's Hockey Night in Canada provides enough hockey for me now that season is so long and my favourite baseball team, the Atlanta Braves, I can get for free a couple of times a month for free with MLB's free game of the day so I don't need Sportsnet.

[Argofan_1000]

I am a TSN subscriber who drops it immediately after the Grey Cup and switch it for a movie channel until the preseason as there isn't much else I'm interested in. CBC's Hockey Night in Canada provides enough hockey for me now that season is so long and my favourite baseball team, the Atlanta Braves, I can get for free a couple of times a month for free with MLB's free game of the day so I don't need Sportsnet.

I drop TSN 2 in Burlington after the season. That alone costs me $7 per month plus I pay a premium for HD so I can watch some of the CFL games in HD. It is a lot of money Bell receives from CFL viewers.

My calculations did not include TV advertising from the 81 regular season games, playoffs, GC and specialty CFL programs. Include RDS, ESPN and all the on line stuff and it looks like a lot of money Bell takes in.

[jerrym]

Saskatchewan once again led the TV viewership rankings with almost 750,000 viewers, while the Argos vs. BC was the least watched game.



Week 17 ratings
Friday
Winnipeg at Ottawa: 514,000

Saturday
Toronto at B.C.: 388,600

Monday
Calgary at Montreal: 503,500
Edmonton at Saskatchewan: 749,300

Week 17 (2018) vs. Week 16 (2018): -7.4 per cent
Year-to-date (65 games) vs 2017 (65 games): +5.9 per cent

http://3downnation.com/2018/10/12/cfl-ratings-report-riders-deliver-thanksgiving-ratings-boost/

[ArgoRavi]

Saskatchewan once again led the TV viewership rankings with almost 750,000 viewers, while the Argos vs. BC was the least watched game.


http://3downnation.com/2018/10/12/cfl-ratings-report-riders-deliver-thanksgiving-ratings-boost/

That Argos/Lions figure isn't all that bad considering that it went head-to-head with the opening Saturday night of the NHL season.

[CFLfan]

I am a TSN subscriber who drops it immediately after the Grey Cup and switch it for a movie channel until the preseason as there isn't much else I'm interested in. CBC's Hockey Night in Canada provides enough hockey for me now that season is so long and my favourite baseball team, the Atlanta Braves, I can get for free a couple of times a month for free with MLB's free game of the day so I don't need Sportsnet.

I assume you are a Rogers subscriber? If you are a Bell subscriber you would receive TSN on the basic entry package (good) but if you wanted Sportsnet you would have to upgrade to the (better) package. If you are a Rogers subscriber, Sportsnet comes with the basic package but if you want TSN you have to upgrade.

[Neely2005]

I drop TSN 2 in Burlington after the season. That alone costs me $7 per month plus I pay a premium for HD so I can watch some of the CFL games in HD. It is a lot of money Bell receives from CFL viewers.

My calculations did not include TV advertising from the 81 regular season games, playoffs, GC and specialty CFL programs. Include RDS, ESPN and all the on line stuff and it looks like a lot of money Bell takes in.

Who are you with that charges a premium for HD? We're with Rogers and they got rid of that fee/package years ago.

[R.J]

http://3downnation.com/2018/10/18/cfl-ratings-report-bombers-blowout-riders-puts-tripleheader-tank/

Week 18 ratings

Friday
Hamilton at Toronto: 377,400

Saturday
Saskatchewan at Winnipeg: 513,900
Ottawa at Edmonton: 472,500
B.C. at Calgary: 487,900

Week 18 (2018) vs. Week 17 (2018): -11.3 per cent
Year-to-date (69 games) vs 2017 (69 games): +4.9 per cent

http://3downnation.com/2018/10/26/cfl-rating-report-playoffs-races-provide-ratings-boost/

Week 19 ratings

Friday
Hamilton at Ottawa: 486,200
Edmonton at B.C.: 583,100

Saturday
Montreal at Toronto: 315,200
Saskatchewan at Calgary: 503,500

Week 19 (2018) vs. Week 18 (2018): +18.9 per cent
Year-to-date (73 games) vs 2017 (73 games): +5.5 per cent

TBH, I haven't been this concerned about the CFL since the mid 90's (when I became a fan funny enough) - Too many 300k viewership games the past couple of years, and a lot of empty seats in stadiums.

[SkalbaniasGhost]

http://3downnation.com/2018/10/18/cfl-ratings-report-bombers-blowout-riders-puts-tripleheader-tank/


http://3downnation.com/2018/10/26/cfl-rating-report-playoffs-races-provide-ratings-boost/

(http://3downnation.com/2018/10/26/cfl-rating-report-playoffs-races-provide-ratings-boost/)
TBH, I haven't been this concerned about the CFL since the mid 90's (when I became a fan funny enough) - Too many 300k viewership games the past couple of years, and a lot of empty seats in stadiums.

TPTB's plan is almost complete. They just have that pesky CBA negotiation to complete in March.

[argos1873]

TPTB's plan is almost complete. They just have that pesky CBA negotiation to complete in March.

Do you actually believe they are suppressing numbers, just to get a good CBA next year? Anyone who has the slightest business knowledge knows that's the worst way to do business.

[jerrym]

The TV ratings for the finals were down, especially for the East final, which was down 50%. Should the playoffs be moved to Saturday to avoid competition with the NFL?



After a regular season that featured a solid increase in TV ratings, the CFL playoffs numbers have taken a nosedive.
Last Sunday’s East final between the Ottawa Redblacks and the Hamilton Tiger-Cats had an average audience of just 729,000 on TSN – a drop of almost 50 per cent from 2017 when the Toronto Argonauts hosted the Saskatchewan Roughriders.

Even taking the Riders out of the equation – and they consistently draw the CFL’s highest audiences – Sunday’s game was still down 38 per cent from 2016 when Ottawa hosted the crossover Edmonton Eskimos.
The West final between the Calgary Stampeders and Winnipeg Blue Bombers did better, with an audience of over 1.2 million but that’s still a decrease of 8.7 per cent from last season’s Calgary win over Edmonton. And it was down slightly from last week’s semifinal game between Winnipeg and Saskatchewan. ...

There are a couple of possible explanations for the precipitous dip. The elimination of the Riders from playoff contention – and the massive audiences they’ve been drawing this season – didn’t help. That Ottawa held a 14-point advantage over Hamilton at halftime and turned the game into a blow out in the third was also likely a factor.
But the biggest competitor for eyeballs on Sunday: the NFL, which has seen a significant spike in rating this season. Through Week 8, NFL ratings were up 19 per cent across CTV, TSN and RDS compared to the same time frame last year. By hosting it’s playoff games on Sunday at 1 p.m. and 4:30 p.m. EST, the CFL is going to head-to-head with the NFL – something they choose not to do in the regular season. The Canadian league played just four of 81 regular-season games on Sunday this season and six in 2017. Saturday was the most-watched day of the week last year.

As we discussed on the 3DownNation podcast (http://3downnation.com/2018/11/20/3downnation-podcast-the-rose-non-suspension-more-officials-and-bad-calls-riders-qbs-grey-cup-preview/) this week: it’s time for the CFL to consider moving its playoff games to Saturday. ...

CFL East and West final ratings
Sunday
Hamilton at Ottawa: 729,000 (-48.2 from 2017)
Winnipeg at Calgary: 1,220,000 (-8.7 from 2017)
Semifinals (2018) vs. Semifinals (2017): -28.9 per cent
Year-to-date (85 games) vs 2017 (85 games): +1.7 per cent

http://www.3downnation.com/2018/11/22/cfl-ratings-report-east-final-viewership-almost-50-per-cent/

[CFLfan]

The TV ratings for the finals were down, especially for the East final, which was down 50%. Should the playoffs be moved to Saturday to avoid competition with the NFL?


http://www.3downnation.com/2018/11/22/cfl-ratings-report-east-final-viewership-almost-50-per-cent/

I agree with what they are suggesting on 3 Down Nation - move the playoffs to Saturday.
I don't buy the "boring" game/blowout theory, for a 50% drop. The Ticats were behind by 7 points with 3 minutes left in the first half, then the collapse just before half time. Most viewers would have watched at least 90 minutes of the game before the blow out, the Ticats scored just before half time after the Rose disqualification and most would've hung around until Ottawa scored the first drive of the second half.
The West final was over 1 million, the west drives the TV ratings and the attendance.
The CFL was careful to avoid going head to head against the NFL during the season.

A huge increase in the NFL numbers in Canada, surprised about the increase in female viewership.


https://torontosun.com/sports/football/nfl/nfl-tv-viewership-in-canada-up-19-over-last-year


"The percentage increase of female viewership in Canada is up “over 20%,”

[AngeloV]

I agree with what they are suggesting on 3 Down Nation - move the playoffs to Saturday.
I don't buy the "boring" game/blowout theory, for a 50% drop. The Ticats were behind by 7 points with 3 minutes left in the first half, then the collapse just before half time. Most viewers would have watched at least 90 minutes of the game before the blow out, the Ticats scored just before half time after the Rose disqualification and most would've hung around until Ottawa scored the first drive of the second half.
The West final was over 1 million, the west drives the TV ratings and the attendance.
The CFL was careful to avoid going head to head against the NFL during the season.

A huge increase in the NFL numbers in Canada, surprised about the increase in female viewership.


https://torontosun.com/sports/football/nfl/nfl-tv-viewership-in-canada-up-19-over-last-year


"The percentage increase of female viewership in Canada is up “over 20%,”

League moved the playoffs to a Saturday once, not sure of the year but it was maybe 10-15 years ago, and ratings were brutal. A lot of people work on Saturdays, and you can't go head to head with HNIC, so playing at night is not an option either. I don't see this as a reason to be worried. Maybe the lack of the Argos in the playoffs and Saskatchewan being ousted the previous week have more to do with this than anything else.

Of course, rating out west might be down because they are tired of seeing what they believe to be a substandard East division team alive and getting home playoff games over a west team that had a better record. I personally, love the east vs west format we now have, but this might be a protest from those that think the league should go to 1 division.

Just a thought, but I may be reading more into this than is actually there.

[paulwoods13]

Maybe return to later games, i.e. 4 and 7:30 ET. This was done for a few years and I think the ratings were strong. Since it would go up against Sunday Night Football, TSN likely would not want to make this change, but I'd personally like to see this tried again.

[ArgoRavi]

League moved the playoffs to a Saturday once, not sure of the year but it was maybe 10-15 years ago, and ratings were brutal. A lot of people work on Saturdays, and you can't go head to head with HNIC, so playing at night is not an option either. I don't see this as a reason to be worried. Maybe the lack of the Argos in the playoffs and Saskatchewan being ousted the previous week have more to do with this than anything else.

Of course, rating out west might be down because they are tired of seeing what they believe to be a substandard East division team alive and getting home playoff games over a west team that had a better record. I personally, love the east vs west format we now have, but this might be a protest from those that think the league should go to 1 division.

Just a thought, but I may be reading more into this than is actually there.

2008 was the year that the CFL tried Saturday playoff games and ratings dropped a fair bit.

Just because they had one subpar playoff Sunday is no reason to go away from what has, largely, been a very successful formula over the past few decades.


Maybe return to later games, i.e. 4 and 7:30 ET. This was done for a few years and I think the ratings were strong. Since it would go up against Sunday Night Football, TSN likely would not want to make this change, but I'd personally like to see this tried again.

The league did those later Sunday playoff games from 2003 to 2005 and they worked very well from a ratings standpoint. I think that there were concerns around attendance being a challenge for later games played outdoors in the west but attendance numbers during those years were still pretty robust. I was surprised that they ever moved away from those later starts.

Regarding that Sun article, isn't it amazing what having an over-the-air provider, in addition to TSN, can do for the ratings, even if it is only CTV2? I firmly believe that not having an over-the-air provider for the past decade hasn't done the CFL any favours and that they have lost ground to the NFL in Canada, as a result. I would also argue that Bell promotes the NFL far more and better than they do the CFL.

[Argofan_1000]

2008 was the year that the CFL tried Saturday playoff games and ratings dropped a fair bit.

Just because they had one subpar playoff Sunday is no reason to go away from what has, largely, been a very successful formula over the past few decades.



The league did those later Sunday playoff games from 2003 to 2005 and they worked very well from a ratings standpoint. I think that there were concerns around attendance being a challenge for later games played outdoors in the west but attendance numbers during those years were still pretty robust. I was surprised that they ever moved away from those later starts.

Regarding that Sun article, isn't it amazing what having an over-the-air provider, in addition to TSN, can do for the ratings, even if it is only CTV2? I firmly believe that not having an over-the-air provider for the past decade hasn't done the CFL any favours and that they have lost ground to the NFL in Canada, as a result. I would also argue that Bell promotes the NFL far more and better than they do the CFL.

I don't understand the rating system as very little information is available.

Numeris does not measure Hamilton and Ottawa per info on Wikipedia. So Ottawa and Hamilton play each other and Numeris releases information about this game. How did they do that? Does anyone - anyone not think that people in those cities aren't watching? I think this kind of problem is why Numeris doesn't release information on the structure of these measurements. There is a problem and have said so. Canada is difficult to measure and sport is the hardest to gauge.

[jerrym]

The Grey Cup viewership at 3.1 million was down 23% from last year and the lowest since 2001. During the regular season (85 games) viewership increased 1.7%. For the regular season and playoffs combined viewership was down 0.3%.

http://3downnation.com/2018/11/26/grey-cup-ratings-tsn-whopping-23-per-cent/

[AngeloV]

The Grey Cup viewership at 3.1 million was down 23% from last year and the lowest since 2001. During the regular season (85 games) viewership increased 1.7%. For the regular season and playoffs combined viewership was down 0.3%.

http://3downnation.com/2018/11/26/grey-cup-ratings-tsn-whopping-23-per-cent/

More proof that the CFL needs the Argos. They drive ratings.

[Will]

More proof that the CFL needs the Argos. They drive ratings.

It would be interesting to compare Grey Cup ratings where Argos were involved versus games where they weren't.

[Neely2005]

More proof that the CFL needs the Argos. They drive ratings.

Agreed. Toronto is a big market, plus all the people who watch to cheer against the Argonauts.

Although IIRC the Ottawa market isn't measured either.

[Argofan_1000]

Agreed. Toronto is a big market, plus all the people who watch to cheer against the Argonauts.

Although IIRC the Ottawa market isn't measured either.

Argos are very important to the league. In 2012 GC they had 5.8 M tune in. Rumors were they made $10-$12 M from the game at Rogers center. Truly sad Rogers does help sell this team.

https://www.cfl.ca/2012/11/27/100th-grey-cup-sets-new-broadcast-benchmark/

[CFLfan]

I don't understand the rating system as very little information is available.

Numeris does not measure Hamilton and Ottawa per info on Wikipedia. So Ottawa and Hamilton play each other and Numeris releases information about this game. How did they do that? Does anyone - anyone not think that people in those cities aren't watching? I think this kind of problem is why Numeris doesn't release information on the structure of these measurements. There is a problem and have said so. Canada is difficult to measure and sport is the hardest to gauge.

Wikipedia states that Numeris doesn't measure Hamilton and Ottawa? ...........Nonsense, just look up the source NOT Wikipedia,, I can't find anything that states that, they are excluded, how could they do that? I would stay clear of Wkipedia for your info
I searched Numeris and it's explained how they measure a cross section ACROSS Canada. The diaries, the surveys, the people meters etc.
I lived in Ottawa and we did take part in a diary when it was BBM!!

You have to understand how they do it and it's pretty accurate, the diary, the panel and the meters.
They can measure your PVR/DVRd programs, the games on the internet etc.
The meters are not accurate when you are in bar watching a game, they turn the sound down in the bar and there may be multiple tvs with different sports televised but that's where the diarys are factored in.

Advertisers and the TV networks pay a lot of money for the Numeris data so it's pretty accurate.

http://en.numeris.ca/participants/tv-diary
http://en.numeris.ca/participants/online-tv-panel
http://en.numeris.ca/participants/meter-panel


(http://en.numeris.ca/participants/meter-panel)

[CFLfan]

For info:

Two years ago the Ottawa/Calgary Grey Cup was 3.6 Million
http://assets.numeris.ca/Downloads/November 21, 2016 - November 27, 2016 (National).pdf

Last year the Argo/Calgary GC was 4 Million which was the same as the 2015 Ottawa/Calgary GC
http://assets.numeris.ca/Downloads/November 23 - November 29, 2015 (National).pdf

The GC has averaged between 3 and 4 Million the past 5 years. pretty good numbers for a sporting even. I think the important stat would be how many in the 18 - 40 age group.

[Argofan_1000]

For info:

Two years ago the Ottawa/Calgary Grey Cup was 3.6 Million
http://assets.numeris.ca/Downloads/November 21, 2016 - November 27, 2016 (National).pdf

Last year the Argo/Calgary GC was 4 Million which was the same as the 2015 Ottawa/Calgary GC
http://assets.numeris.ca/Downloads/November 23 - November 29, 2015 (National).pdf

The GC has averaged between 3 and 4 Million the past 5 years. pretty good numbers for a sporting even. I think the important stat would be how many in the 18 - 40 age group.

the overnights come out and Rogers makes sure the boys at 3downnation write about it. The whole picture won't be known until the diaries are tabulated and the streaming numbers are in. Also it says TSN. What about Ottawa with 30-35% french. Would they tune in to RDS? A rabid fan base in Ottawa and the results on TV for this region was very poor. I Don't believe it. I work in advanced manufacturing and we use a lot of statistics. We get a number where it is off 25% from the norm - we throw it out as corrupt and we measure again. Numeris does not release much info about how they do things and there is a reason for it. They say Canada is very hard to measure and sports is the most difficult. That kind of qualifier throws up a flag.

Ottawa Hamilton game at the end of the season had poor viewer results and these 2 cities are only covered by diaries but the overnight ratings come out the next day. How does Numeris even publish information about this? Its suppose to be science. I'd say somethings wrong. Rogers years ago was very vocal about Numeris for the ratings for their properties, guess what? Ratings improved for Rogers. Not one legitimate agency double checks their work. Too easy to do so many things to the ratings. Multi million dollar deals sway in the balance of what Numeris publishes. I can think of many ways to cheat the system. Again, who is checking?

[CFLfan]

the overnights come out and Rogers makes sure the boys at 3downnation write about it. The whole picture won't be known until the diaries are tabulated and the streaming numbers are in. Also it says TSN. What about Ottawa with 30-35% french. Would they tune in to RDS? A rabid fan base in Ottawa and the results on TV for this region was very poor. I Don't believe it. I work in advanced manufacturing and we use a lot of statistics. We get a number where it is off 25% from the norm - we throw it out as corrupt and we measure again. Numeris does not release much info about how they do things and there is a reason for it. They say Canada is very hard to measure and sports is the most difficult. That kind of qualifier throws up a flag.

Ottawa Hamilton game at the end of the season had poor viewer results and these 2 cities are only covered by diaries but the overnight ratings come out the next day. How does Numeris even publish information about this? Its suppose to be science. I'd say somethings wrong. Rogers years ago was very vocal about Numeris for the ratings for their properties, guess what? Ratings improved for Rogers. Not one legitimate agency double checks their work. Too easy to do so many things to the ratings. Multi million dollar deals sway in the balance of what Numeris publishes. I can think of many ways to cheat the system. Again, who is checking?

Why would Rogers, who are part owner of the Argos, make sure the "boys" at 3 Downation, who belong to the TORSTAR group, make sure they write about it? You believe in conspiracy theories?

Ottawa is roughly 20 per cent Francophone and most Francophones in Ottawa are perfectly bilingual and likely to watch TSN as much as RDS.
Besides why wouldn't Nuimeris count Francophones in Ontario?? if they were watching RDS they would be counted or if they were watching TSN or CTV NFL they would be counted. On the other side of the river in Gatineau where the majority are French speaking they would be counted by the Numeris Quebec ratings.
One of the highest rated sports programs in Quebec last year was the Super Bowl on RDS - close to 1 MILLION viewers in a small market with cable/sat only, do you believe that is accurate??
http://assets.numeris.ca/Downloads/January%2029,%202018%20-%20February%204,%202018%20(Quebec).pdf
CFL football is not popular in Quebec and the numbers are very low, the NFL numbers are good on RDS.

I don't understand why you refuse to look at the Numeris.ca to read about how they collect numbers, if you still doubt their methods they have a link to email them for more explanation. You like to quote wikepedia but there is no link to it, I think it was someone on the CFL.ca forums that said Numeris doesn't measure Ottawa, but no link.
Yes the Ottawa Hamilton game at the end of the season had poor viewer results, Ottawa had clinched first and rested most of their starters. Check out the poor ratings for the Argo/Als game and the Ticat/Als, Ottawa/Als - ALL like pre-season, of course the numbers were low. Nothing to do with not measuring a region.
Do you have a link to "Rogers years ago was very vocal about Numeris ratings" ?? seriously? you believe that ratings improved for Rogers because of some conspiracy...........lol how about the fact that Rogers/Sportsnet does Wednesday night NHL games which are as high as the Saturday night CBC games, or the fact that there is a lot of Jays fans out there and the Jays are on Rogers/Sportsnet.

I made a statement on here a couple of months ago about more people are watching on the internet and the ratings were not counted. Someone on these boards said I didn't know what I was talking about and posted the link to Numeris which showed that Numeris does measure watching TV sports on the internet.
At least I admitted I was wrong when someone posted the link and I actually read it.
Numeris does a good job with the ratings, you need to READ the Numeris link and see what they do instead of making stuff up, or quoting someone on another website and believing that there is some type of conspiracy against the CFL.

What about this explanation from the Toronto Star's Damien Cox about the low Grey Cup numbers, another "conspiray" or a frank opinion:
https://www.thestar.com/sports/football/opinion/2018/11/30/grey-cup-ratings-nosedive-isnt-cfls-biggest-problem.html

[Neely2005]

the overnights come out and Rogers makes sure the boys at 3downnation write about it. The whole picture won't be known until the diaries are tabulated and the streaming numbers are in. Also it says TSN. What about Ottawa with 30-35% french. Would they tune in to RDS? A rabid fan base in Ottawa and the results on TV for this region was very poor. I Don't believe it. I work in advanced manufacturing and we use a lot of statistics. We get a number where it is off 25% from the norm - we throw it out as corrupt and we measure again. Numeris does not release much info about how they do things and there is a reason for it. They say Canada is very hard to measure and sports is the most difficult. That kind of qualifier throws up a flag.

Ottawa Hamilton game at the end of the season had poor viewer results and these 2 cities are only covered by diaries but the overnight ratings come out the next day. How does Numeris even publish information about this? Its suppose to be science. I'd say somethings wrong. Rogers years ago was very vocal about Numeris for the ratings for their properties, guess what? Ratings improved for Rogers. Not one legitimate agency double checks their work. Too easy to do so many things to the ratings. Multi million dollar deals sway in the balance of what Numeris publishes. I can think of many ways to cheat the system. Again, who is checking?

So Rogers who is a publicly traded company and owns the Argonauts is telling 3downnation who they don't own to write negative stories about the team that they own?

[Argofan_1000]

So Rogers who is a publicly traded company and owns the Argonauts is telling 3downnation who they don't own to write negative stories about the team that they own?

Justin Dunk works for Sportsnet and writes for 3downnation. He is extremely negative. Had another chance to write about the GC ratings and he took it

[Neely2005]

Justin Dunk works for Sportsnet and writes for 3downnation. He is extremely negative. Had another chance to write about the GC ratings and he took it

And Sportsnet is owned by Rogers and Rogers owns the Argonauts.

So if the ratings are down you don't want it to be reported? Only report good news?

[Argofan_1000]

And Sportsnet is owned by Rogers and Rogers owns the Argonauts.

So if the ratings are down you don't want it to be reported? Only report good news?

He reported TSN only. The true picture would be TSN, RDS, Streaming, and others. TSN was down, but Ottawa in the GC is measured only by diaries. So is Hamilton, Halifax. Plus Ottawa is 30 - 35 % French. Wouldn't they watch on RDS.

I don't think the true picture was reported hours after the GC. So far we have had Cox and Dunk report the negative. You don't think there is a problem with the Rogers group

[Neely2005]

He reported TSN only. The true picture would be TSN, RDS, Streaming, and others. TSN was down, but Ottawa in the GC is measured only by diaries. So is Hamilton, Halifax. Plus Ottawa is 30 - 35 % French. Wouldn't they watch on RDS.

I don't think the true picture was reported hours after the GC. So far we have had Cox and Dunk report the negative. You don't think there is a problem with the Rogers group

He reported the English Canadian ratings as they usually do. As CFL Fan explained in his post above streaming is included. Who are the others? The exclusive English broadcast was on TSN.

Rogers is a publicly traded company, they aren't going to risk upsetting their shareholders by damaging a team that they own.

[Argofan_1000]

Why would Rogers, who are part owner of the Argos, make sure the "boys" at 3 Downation, who belong to the TORSTAR group, make sure they write about it? You believe in conspiracy theories?

Ottawa is roughly 20 per cent Francophone and most Francophones in Ottawa are perfectly bilingual and likely to watch TSN as much as RDS.
Besides why wouldn't Nuimeris count Francophones in Ontario?? if they were watching RDS they would be counted or if they were watching TSN or CTV NFL they would be counted. On the other side of the river in Gatineau where the majority are French speaking they would be counted by the Numeris Quebec ratings.
One of the highest rated sports programs in Quebec last year was the Super Bowl on RDS - close to 1 MILLION viewers in a small market with cable/sat only, do you believe that is accurate??
http://assets.numeris.ca/Downloads/January 29, 2018 - February 4, 2018 (Quebec).pdf
CFL football is not popular in Quebec and the numbers are very low, the NFL numbers are good on RDS.

I don't understand why you refuse to look at the Numeris.ca to read about how they collect numbers, if you still doubt their methods they have a link to email them for more explanation. You like to quote wikepedia but there is no link to it, I think it was someone on the CFL.ca forums that said Numeris doesn't measure Ottawa, but no link.
Yes the Ottawa Hamilton game at the end of the season had poor viewer results, Ottawa had clinched first and rested most of their starters. Check out the poor ratings for the Argo/Als game and the Ticat/Als, Ottawa/Als - ALL like pre-season, of course the numbers were low. Nothing to do with not measuring a region.
Do you have a link to "Rogers years ago was very vocal about Numeris ratings" ?? seriously? you believe that ratings improved for Rogers because of some conspiracy...........lol how about the fact that Rogers/Sportsnet does Wednesday night NHL games which are as high as the Saturday night CBC games, or the fact that there is a lot of Jays fans out there and the Jays are on Rogers/Sportsnet.

I made a statement on here a couple of months ago about more people are watching on the internet and the ratings were not counted. Someone on these boards said I didn't know what I was talking about and posted the link to Numeris which showed that Numeris does measure watching TV sports on the internet.
At least I admitted I was wrong when someone posted the link and I actually read it.
Numeris does a good job with the ratings, you need to READ the Numeris link and see what they do instead of making stuff up, or quoting someone on another website and believing that there is some type of conspiracy against the CFL.

What about this explanation from the Toronto Star's Damien Cox about the low Grey Cup numbers, another "conspiray" or a frank opinion:
https://www.thestar.com/sports/football/opinion/2018/11/30/grey-cup-ratings-nosedive-isnt-cfls-biggest-problem.html

You guys trying to convince me that Cox and Rogers were not anti CFL, anti Argos? You can convince me of someone else but not these 2. Listened for years hearing it

Also did you notice that the number posted by 3 down nation (3.1 million) the next day is also the same number that Numeris published today (3.1 million) That means that the diaries were not taken into account or if they were, nobody with a diary watched the CFL GC.
Also the only document that tells us how the measurement is completed you don't believe. I will copy and paste it below where it says some of these markets are not covered by People Meters. Ottawa being one. Can you guys tell me the rules about how someone is included in the ratings if you miss 10 minutes of a 3 hour football game. Is it the same rules as watching a 25 minute sitcom? Is all sports treated the same? Lots of questions for me in the design of a statistical experiment. That's what it is. I am not saying the results are fake but there are far too many ways to skew the results. One of them is leaving out Ottawa, Regina, Halifax or others.

The other documents published by Numeris states that they are self policing. Its on their web site. Nobody without skin in the game is checking and NO results about how and where these meters are placed is discussed by Numeris. want to skew results? - place them heavily in one area. Matters for a sitcom? no it doesn't. matter for sports - yes it does. Hundreds of Millions of dollars are at stake and hangs on the breath of what Numeris publishes and NOBODY CHECKS! Here is the quote.



"In television, Numeris is partnered with the American company Nielsen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nielsen_Media_Research) in a joint venture which measures the Toronto, Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Montreal Anglo and Montreal Franco markets, [8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numeris#cite_note-8) the Ontario region and national ratings figures via Portable People Meters. Numeris is the senior partner in the joint venture, and also continues to independently monitor some markets — primarily the francophone (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francophone) television market in Quebec, and some smaller media markets — which are not served by the joint operation, through diaries."

[Neely2005]

You guys trying to convince me that Cox and Rogers were not anti CFL, anti Argos? You can convince me of someone else but not these 2. Listened for years hearing it

Also did you notice that the number posted by 3 down nation (3.1 million) the next day is also the same number that Numeris published today (3.1 million) That means that the diaries were not taken into account or if they were, nobody with a diary watched the CFL GC.
Also the only document that tells us how the measurement is completed you don't believe. I will copy and paste it below where it says some of these markets are not covered by People Meters. Ottawa being one. Can you guys tell me the rules about how someone is included in the ratings if you miss 10 minutes of a 3 hour football game. Is it the same rules as watching a 25 minute sitcom? Is all sports treated the same? Lots of questions for me in the design of a statistical experiment. That's what it is. I am not saying the results are fake but there are far too many ways to skew the results. One of them is leaving out Ottawa, Regina, Halifax or others.

The other documents published by Numeris states that they are self policing. Its on their web site. Nobody without skin in the game is checking and NO results about how and where these meters are placed is discussed by Numeris. want to skew results? - place them heavily in one area. Matters for a sitcom? no it doesn't. matter for sports - yes it does. Hundreds of Millions of dollars are at stake and hangs on the breath of what Numeris publishes and NOBODY CHECKS! Here is the quote.



"In television, Numeris is partnered with the American company Nielsen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nielsen_Media_Research) in a joint venture which measures the Toronto, Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Montreal Anglo and Montreal Franco markets, [8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numeris#cite_note-8) the Ontario region and national ratings figures via Portable People Meters. Numeris is the senior partner in the joint venture, and also continues to independently monitor some markets — primarily the francophone (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francophone) television market in Quebec, and some smaller media markets — which are not served by the joint operation, through diaries."

Stop using Wikipedia, the Numeris website has information on their methodology.