Labour day rematch Game Thread

[Wobbler]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-conversation="none" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">And the full depth. <a href="https://t.co/HTvhH7MEHO">pic.twitter.com/HTvhH7MEHO</a></p>&mdash; Toronto Argonauts (@TorontoArgos) <a href="https://twitter.com/TorontoArgos/status/1038079694573379584?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 7, 2018</a></blockquote>
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Well... we might win. It's possible.

[lazycro]

Carter or Biewald sit?

Edit:

Nvm, Biewald is a NAT so I assume that won't matter

[AngeloV]

I'm assuming White and Cage will sit.

[gilthethrill]

I realize it's a short week but I was hoping to see McCluster make his debut in Coombs spot with Noel going out wide...not even going to comment on Carter sitting.

[lazycro]

I realize it's a short week but I was hoping to see McCluster make his debut in Coombs spot with Noel going out wide...not even going to comment on Carter sitting.

He's only missed 5 games

He went out in Week 7 before the game

No game on Week 9

[lazycro]

I'm assuming White and Cage will sit.

Noticed Rakim Cox was activated from the PR to the backup DE as well.

[Treblecharger1]

He's only missed 5 games

He went out in Week 7 before the game

No game on Week 9


He went out before the Winnipeg Road Game Which was week 6. He should be eligible to return this week but looks like they choose to wait after the bye week.

[lazycro]

He went out before the Winnipeg Road Game Which was week 6. He should be eligible to return this week but looks like they choose to wait after the bye week.

https://www.cfl.ca/2018/07/25/report-argos-wilder-mccluster-injured-practice/

Article July 25th leading up to the game on Week 7 July 27th

[ArgoGabe22]

Carter will play.

https://www.tsn.ca/carter-to-make-argos-debut-vs-ticats-1.1169190

[AngeloV]

He went out before the Winnipeg Road Game Which was week 6. He should be eligible to return this week but looks like they choose to wait after the bye week.

But it's the 6 game list, not the 6 week list. Argos had a bye thrown in there. Players on the 6 game are eligible to return to practice after the 5th game missed, so this make sense.

[lazycro]

Carter will play.

https://www.tsn.ca/carter-to-make-argos-debut-vs-ticats-1.1169190

One play pass left + one play pass right = Profit?

[AngeloV]

Carter will play.

https://www.tsn.ca/carter-to-make-argos-debut-vs-ticats-1.1169190

Our defence can probably use him, too. But let's hope they stick to the O with him.

[R.J]

Desperate times call for desperate measures I guess...

[R.J]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Speaking of tickets, tickets going fast for the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Ticats?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Ticats</a> - <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Argos?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Argos</a> rematch at <a href="https://twitter.com/BMOField?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@BMOField</a> tomorrow.<br><br>Only 190 are left.<a href="https://t.co/9U8TwF9xUt">https://t.co/9U8TwF9xUt</a><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/CFL?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#CFL</a> via <a href="https://twitter.com/TorontoArgos?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@TorontoArgos</a></p>&mdash; CFL News (@CFL_News) <a href="https://twitter.com/CFL_News/status/1038113343058464768?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">7 September 2018</a></blockquote>
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[lazycro]

I was checking at one point there weren't many on there then 30 minutes later more appeared, I feel they hold a lot back from ticketmaster for whatever reason until right before

[R.J]

I was checking at one point there weren't many on there then 30 minutes later more appeared, I feel they hold a lot back from ticketmaster for whatever reason until right before
Yeah, it was more than 300 a few hours before. Seems to be a staple since Braley sold actually, because even during TanenBell's first year dots were disappearing and reappearing frequently. In either case, I hope we can "sell out" BMO.

[RB957]

Yeah, it was more than 300 a few hours before. Seems to be a staple since Braley sold actually, because even during TanenBell's first year dots were disappearing and reappearing frequently. In either case, I hope we can "sell out" BMO.

I just hope most people aren't wearing black and gold.

[R.J]

I just hope most people aren't wearing black and gold.
That's up to Argo fans. Sen's fans have the same "problem" with Leafs fans in their barn, but if more home fans were to buy tickets it wouldn't be a problem in the first place.

[Argo57]

That's up to Argo fans. Sen's fans have the same "problem" with Leafs fans in their barn, but if more home fans were to buy tickets it wouldn't be a problem in the first place.

Agreed RJ, I expect a 50/50 between Argo and Ticat fans.

[paulwoods13]

No chance it will be 50/50. The idea that ticats fans have EVER outnumbered Argo fans in Toronto is an urban legend.

[jerrym]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">📋: Here’s how we’ll lineup tomorrow afternoon 🆚 Toronto. <br><br> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/HamiltonProud?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#HamiltonProud</a> | <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/MahindraOntario?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#MahindraOntario</a> <a href="https://t.co/7jk4vVLrtc">pic.twitter.com/7jk4vVLrtc</a></p>&mdash; Hamilton Tiger-Cats (@Ticats) <a href="https://twitter.com/Ticats/status/1038091409612525568?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 7, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[OV Argo]

Carter or Biewald sit?

Edit:

Nvm, Biewald is a NAT so I assume that won't matter


Love to see Biewald actually get a shot to play some DE; not like the starters are doing anything at all, so why not give some back-ups some playing time to see if they can upgrade (and is Finley injured or what - he could help with reps at both DT & DE IMO) ?; but this DC is clueless it seems. Conventional wisdom says a D-backfield needs time to play together to gel and get each other's backs - but this Argo D-backfield has seen movement all over the place, and guys seem lost at times. Woodson could get a start too, but wrong passport there; and woulda liked to see that Washington in starting from the start of the season after his really fine ex. game work.

[jerrym]

BC's win over Ottawa makes an Argo victory even more important as BC is another team now in play for the crossover.

[smokeslet'sgo]

No chance it will be 50/50. The idea that ticats fans have EVER outnumbered Argo fans in Toronto is an urban legend.

They usually bring in 4 or 5 thousand to BMO, surprisingly it's never as much as it was at the Dome despite the easier access on the Lakeshore West line. They're usually mostly gathered behind their bench and a few are scattered throughout but they'll tell you it's 98% Hamilton fans and there are like 26 Argo fans at the game. They're quite deluded. It seems like more because the yellow stands out more and they're generally more obnoxious while the Argo fans are generally just trying to enjoy the game. Bob McCown said on the Fan 590 there'd be more Hamilton fans than Argo fans but Bob is a bit of a moron

[Rich]

BC's win over Ottawa makes an Argo victory even more important as BC is another team now in play for the crossover.

Screw the crossover, a win would mean first place is in sight.

[ArgoRavi]

Screw the crossover, a win would mean first place is in sight.

Absolutely! The Argos can move within two games of first place with a win.

[Argo]

The season on the line. 'Nuff said.

[paulwoods13]

Conventional wisdom says a D-backfield needs time to play together to gel and get each other's backs - but this Argo D-backfield has seen movement all over the place, and guys seem lost at times. Woodson could get a start too, but wrong passport there; and woulda liked to see that Washington in starting from the start of the season after his really fine ex. game work.

1. Since when do you, of all people, buy into conventional wisdom? :-) Last year Chamblin moved guys around the secondary constantly, and it didn't seem to prevent them from gelling.

2. It's hard to tell watching on TV, but it sure looked to me last week like Woodson was at CB for virtually every defensive snap. The guy who did not seem to be on the field much, if at all, was Dowling who had been listed as a starter on the depth chart. Will be interested to see if Woodson starts again this week.

[Jon Gonzo]

The season on the line. 'Nuff said.

Absolutely it is. This game will tell me everything I need to know about the 2018 Toronto Argonauts. Win, and get set for a push. Lose, and start to shape & re-shape for 2019; where I'd expect to see 2 new Co-Ordinator's in place.

[Jon Gonzo]

1. Since when do you, of all people, buy into conventional wisdom? :-) Last year Chamblin moved guys around the secondary constantly, and it didn't seem to prevent them from gelling.

2. It's hard to tell watching on TV, but it sure looked to me last week like Woodson was at CB for virtually every defensive snap. The guy who did not seem to be on the field much, if at all, was Dowling who had been listed as a starter on the depth chart. Will be interested to see if Woodson starts again this week.

I'd like to see the team fish or cut bait with guys like Woodson. If he is not a future starter, then this team needs to find some Canadian Backfield guys who have that potential. I'd say the future ratio balance would be greatly improved by this possibility. LT is another potential ratio changer, but Ryan Hunter won't be around for a while now. I'd like to see Woodson get some starts. Especially if they lose again to the Ticats.

[R.J]

Absolutely it is. This game will tell me everything I need to know about the 2018 Toronto Argonauts. Win, and get set for a push. Lose, and start to shape & re-shape for 2019; where I'd expect to see 2 new Co-Ordinator's in place.
I hope you're not talking about Condell being one of the two.

[Jon Gonzo]

I am, and I expect he'll be back in the Receiver Position next season should this team not get rolling. I believe AC is getting groomed, and Ricky will get added under him as QB Coach. No inside info, just intuition really.

[R.J]

I am, and I expect he'll be back in the Receiver Position next season should this team not get rolling. I believe AC is getting groomed, and Ricky will get added under him as QB Coach. No inside info, just intuition really.
Laughable to think Condell is to blame for the offence IMO - It's not his offence nor is he calling the plays. Calvillo becoming the Offensive Coordinator is even more laughable IMO - did you see how he ran Montreal's offence ?

If any of this actually occurs I hope Trestman gets the boot.

[Jon Gonzo]

Laughable to think Condell is to blame for the offence IMO - It's not his offence nor is he calling the plays. Calvillo becoming the Offensive Coordinator is even more laughable IMO - did you see how he ran Montreal's offence ?

If any of this actually occurs I hope Trestman gets the boot.

That's a lot of laughing. Never said I endorsed anything about that scenario, it is just intuition, and I think many would laugh right back with the notion of firing Trestman. You'd find a low percentage of support in that wish. But I do believe that you've got to laugh in life. Essential.

[jerrym]

Argos are stopping the run so far but the Cats are open on every passing play and in too many situations the pass coverage has totally broken down, resulting in their opening TD. If this does not change quickly, this could get very ugly.

[jerrym]

I agree with Milt Stegall, if you're going to use Carter, use him throughout the game; don't insert him here and there. Also, when they put him in after 8:30 minutes, they go to him in the end zone, which the Tigers Cats were probably waiting for on his first play.

[Bleeds Double Blue]

This Argo defense is disappointing to be polite.

[jerrym]

The second Tigercat TD was the result of the totally ineffective Argo rush giving Masoli tons of time to find a receiver. Meanwhile Lemon has had 5 sacks in his last four games with the Lions.

[jerrym]

Argos offence starting to move the ball resulting in Amanti TD.

[jerrym]

Bear Woods nose for the ball results in a fumble recovery.

[Bleeds Double Blue]

I know I'm beating a dead horse here but I would like to see a little more pressure on the quarterback. At this rate they won't even have to wash Masoli's uniform after the game.

[jerrym]

Too many dumb Argo penalties in the first half: too many men on the field, offside, and no end. Then the fail to make third and inches early in third quarter resulting in a Hamilton FG. Mistakes. Mistakes. Mistakes.

[jerrym]

Good to see the Argos fight back and score after a Hamilton TD but MBT has not been able to get a long pass near a receiver's arms.

[jerrym]

Using Carter as a returner when you have Martese makes about as much sense as using him a DB. The Argos should use him regularly as a deep threat, even if it is primarily as a decoy to open things up.

[Argo]

I agree with Milt Stegall, if you're going to use Carter, use him throughout the game; don't insert him here and there. Also, when they put him in after 8:30 minutes, they go to him in the end zone, which the Tigers Cats were probably waiting for on his first play.

You are describing (- genius).

[jerrym]

I am not impressed by our five yards passing and a cloud of dust QB who did could not come close to completing a long pass until its meaningless with two minutes to go.

[Stevoman]

Not good enough in every single phase of a must win game.

[Bleeds Double Blue]

Say good night Playoffs.

[R.J]

A big round of applause for Trestman and Bethel Thompson. Yeah the Argos defence sucks, but this dink and dunk - no long game offense is doing a whole lot of nothing as well.

[Argo]

A big round of applause for Trestman and Bethel Thompson. Yeah the Argos defence sucks, but this dink and dunk - no long game offense is doing a whole lot of nothing as well.

Expected more (for big bucks, no less) than:
repeat
do the same things
see if we get a different result
until (season kaput)

[jerrym]

The 15,702 in attendance was inflated by Hamilton fans. With a boring ineffective offence and a porous defence how low will it go before the end of the season?

[Wobbler]

Bethel Thompson has plenty of skills, but clock management is not one of them. We wasted a lot of time today.

[R.J]

Best before date...? (?)
We've ran this same offense for 9 years, and it seems only work every other year. Maybe it'll be better next year, but with Trestman's boy at QB: I'm not convinced. Eventually you have to throw deep in non garbage time.

[Argo]

We've ran this same offense for 9 years, and it seems only work every other year. Maybe it'll be better next year, but with Trestman's boy at QB: I'm not convinced. Eventually you have to throw deep in non garbage time.

Edited my post, but IMO either one applies.

[lazycro]

MBT is too much of a American style QB in the sense he doesn't call his own plays at all or doesn't call the set and always goes for the headset. Numerous plays he just stared at the sideline because he didn't hear something in his headset.

[paulwoods13]

Every qb in pro football waits for the call in their headset. Unless you can point me to one who calls his own plays. They haven't existed since Flutie in the CFL and (on occasion) Manning in the NFL.

[Bleeds Double Blue]

As a glass half full kind of guy I'll point out that on the bright side we will have plenty to talk about in the offseason as we discuss who we should take with the first overall pick in the draft.

[jerrym]

Hopefully Wilder is not seriously hurt following his being stopped on second and two in the fourth quarter and limping off the field and not coming back. The Argo offence is weak enough without losing him.

[jerrym]

Edwards, who went 9/117 and Green who was 8/97 were two of the too few Argo bright spots. Noel is looking better and better from game to game, catching four passes for 53 yards today with 37 YAC yards. Wilder had 76 yards on 11 carries, suggesting he could have done more with even more carries.

[ArgoGabe22]

Thanks to everyone who came out. There’s always next year.

[R.J]

Thanks to everyone who came out. There’s always next year.
They're not mathematically out yet....:D

[Argo57]

The Ticat’s are light years better than the Argos in all aspects (including coaching) and deserved the win.
Nothing new today, zero answers for Masoli, Tasker and Banks, while it continues to amaze me how the Argo D allows such huge holes in their coverage schemes in which Hamilton easily took advantage of.
Simple Hamilton passes to the flats turned into long gainers along the sidelines with the Argo defenders out of position (poor coaching), Tuggle’s bad angle on Green’s late touchdown etc etc.
One deficiency in MBT’s game is accuracy on his deep throws which drove home how spoiled we’ve been in watching Ray these last few seasons.
Quality receiving depth does not exist with this year’s team as we rely on Green and Edwards way too much and continue to ignore Declan Cross.
2018 is rivaling 2016 for futility and frustration.
As always nice to see some friendly faces from this site at the game (Will, Angelo and Dean).

[paulwoods13]

The Ticat’s are light years better than the Argos in all aspects (including coaching) and deserved the win.


I agree. They are definitely the faves to come out of the East IMO. My two caveats are: 1. They've probably looked better than they actually are these past two games; and 2. If Masoli were to get hurt they have no depth behind him. But that said, they seem to be extremely well coached on both offence and defence, they play with emotion and intention, and their QB looks like a guy who can be a star in this league for years.

[paulwoods13]

I'd like to see the team fish or cut bait with guys like Woodson. If he is not a future starter, then this team needs to find some Canadian Backfield guys who have that potential. I'd say the future ratio balance would be greatly improved by this possibility. LT is another potential ratio changer, but Ryan Hunter won't be around for a while now. I'd like to see Woodson get some starts. Especially if they lose again to the Ticats.

I don't know why you mention Woodson specifically. He played 90-95% of the defensive snaps today and seems to have played most of them last week as well. The only time he wasn't on D today was a brief spell in the second quarter when they went with both Jordan and Dowling at LB; for most series, those two guys shared the same position, with Dowling in on passing downs and Jordan on running downs. Woodson played field corner and Roberson boundary; when Woodson was out briefly, they shuffled the secondary around and I don't remember who was at FC. Woodson has acquitted himself well on defence these past two weeks, and he's only in his second season (and missed a lot of his first with an injury). There is no reason to fish or cut bait with him for at least two more years, IMO.

During Obie's first tour of duty with the Argos, he used to say that a Canadian who couldn't develop into a starter by Year 3 (or Year 4 at the latest) was not worth keeping. But in those days more than half of the NATs on a roster had to start (10/19). Nowadays only one-third have to start, and with 44-man rosters there are plenty of spots for guys who play just (or mostly) special teams. Any NAT who can contribute regularly on specials is worth keeping; those who can develop into starters on O or D are extremely valuable. Woodson is already in the former category and seems to be moving nicely towards the latter.

Now a guy like Sackey is probably coming towards "fish or cut bait" territory. In his third season, he has rarely dressed, and showed in preseason he can't snap well enough to back up at centre. I could see him being released or allowed to walk as a FA after this season. But not Woodson, or Campbell, or Kolankowski, or any of the LBs who have rotated through. I think Evan Foster is as good as gone, what with Biewald now dressing ahead of him.

[Argo57]

I agree. They are definitely the faves to come out of the East IMO. My two caveats are: 1. They've probably looked better than they actually are these past two games; and 2. If Masoli were to get hurt they have no depth behind him. But that said, they seem to be extremely well coached on both offence and defence, they play with emotion and intention, and their QB looks like a guy who can be a star in this league for years.

I’ve always liked Masoli, underrated arm, very mobile and doesn’t get rattled .

[R.J]

I’ve always liked Masoli, underrated arm, very mobile and doesn’t get rattled .
Masoli does make a couple of dumb throws a game IMO, but I admit he's looking like the real deal. I'd love to have a mobile game breaker starting for the Argonauts...

[jerrym]

I can't see MBT being the answer because if you can't throw an accurate deep ball by age 30, I can't see it happening. However, I would not be surprised to see Trestman playing him without break game after game even if the results are far from good, given Trestman's history.

[Argo57]

Masoli does make a couple of dumb throws a game IMO, but I admit he's looking like the real deal. I'd love to have a mobile game breaker starting for the Argonauts...

Yes he does but he also has the ability to shake it off and carry on.

[R.J]

Yes he does but he also has the ability to shake it off and carry on.
Yup, and that's how you know he's a good QB. Admittedly wasn't sold on him early on, tbh I'm still not even sure why (probably the stupid throws), but I'm sold. And as you may know: I love mobile QB's as they can make stuff much happen (Strevler vs Nichols also shows this) - whereas when you have a pocket QB you're limited to so many other factors.

[Argo57]

Yup, and that's how you know he's a good QB. Admittedly wasn't sold on him early on, tbh I'm still not even sure why (probably the stupid throws), but I'm sold. And as you may know: I love mobile QB's as they can make stuff much happen (Strevler vs Nichols also shows this) - whereas when you have a pocket QB you're limited to so many other factors.

Mobile QB’s who are also good passers can make things very difficult for any D.

[R.J]

Mobile QB’s who are also good passers can make things very difficult for any D.
You should watch some of Prukop's College games - perfect example of what we're talking about. Franklin made some great throws in College as well - crazy how underrated his arm is around here.

[Will]

I have things to write but don't really feel like putting "pen to paper" right now.

This is the team we expected to see last year.

[lazycro]

Was nice to see Hogan at the CFL Fans in Toronto after

[Will]

Ok, I'm just going to babble randomly here so don't mind me:

Do we even care if we want to see whether it is the scheme or personnel? This pertains to the question of whether to fire Mike Archer. Yes, I want him to go bye bye but what will it accomplish?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Hey at least <a href="https://twitter.com/TorontoArgos?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@TorontoArgos</a> have a good culture and good men lmao</p>&mdash; D (@mdfargos) <a href="https://twitter.com/mdfargos/status/1038514336917061633?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 8, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I know Trestman is seen as above criticism in some circles, but...

Is this offence different from 2012? It was at it's most effective with Durie and Owens out of the backfield and Chiles and Inman running deep. Teams had to respect that!

MBT is a good backup, doesn't turn the ball over much, but I still don't think he has the deep ball accuracy although he's been let down by his receivers sometimes.

Maybe I'll ramble on about something later...

[Antwon]

Playoffs are out the window. MBT is not the QB of the future. Trestman needs to realize most teams have figured out his offence.
Poor showing today. Hurts me to say but maybe they should fold the team for 3-5 years.

[Argo57]

You should watch some of Prukop's College games - perfect example of what we're talking about. Franklin made some great throws in College as well - crazy how underrated his arm is around here.

We have 7 games left to start unearthing some answers in regards to our quarterbacking future.

[Wobbler]

...maybe they should fold the team for 3-5 years.
Yikes! This was a disappointing game, but I think you might be overreacting.

[Argo57]

Playoffs are out the window. MBT is not the QB of the future. Trestman needs to realize most teams have figured out his offence.
Poor showing today. Hurts me to say but maybe they should fold the team for 3-5 years.

Can anyone explain yesterdays announcement that only 300 tickets were still available for today’s game then only 15,000 people show up?

[lazycro]

Can anyone explain yesterdays announcement that only 300 tickets were still available for today’s game then only 15,000 people show up?

Question for the Argos brass, is Toronto still being beaten up by scalper bots?

[Will]

Can anyone explain yesterdays announcement that only 300 tickets were still available for today’s game then only 15,000 people show up?

This is not the first time that Ticketmaster has held back.

[Will]

Yikes! This was a disappointing game, but I think you might be overreacting.

Just a bit.

We had to suffer through 20-52 from 92 to 95
Ticats had to suffer through 15-65 from 03 to 08

[Mightygoose]

I don't recall anyone saying there we're 300 tickets left. Unless it's those looking at the Ticketmaster map, which is not accurate.

Still last year vs. Hamilton we drew 13,500 which also included thousands of Ti-Cat fans plus it was the home opener. So 15,700 is an improvement on that front.

[Will]

I don't recall anyone saying there we're 300 tickets left. Unless it's those looking at the Ticketmaster map, which is not accurate.

Still last year vs. Hamilton we drew 13,500 which also included thousands of Ti-Cat fans plus it was the home opener. So 15,700 is an improvement on that front.

There were tweets saying '300' left yesterday. A slight difference, however, is that Hogan actually tweeted that out regarding the BC game. He did not, to my knowledge, do that for today's game. If Mike says it then believe it.

[Argo57]

Just a bit.

We had to suffer through 20-52 from 92 to 95
Ticats had to suffer through 15-65 from 03 to 08

That’s why you need to enjoy winning a Grey Cup when it happens, you never know when the next opportunity will arise.

[gilthethrill]

The Ticat’s are light years better than the Argos in all aspects (including coaching) and deserved the win.
Nothing new today, zero answers for Masoli, Tasker and Banks, while it continues to amaze me how the Argo D allows such huge holes in their coverage schemes in which Hamilton easily took advantage of.
Simple Hamilton passes to the flats turned into long gainers along the sidelines with the Argo defenders out of position (poor coaching), Tuggle’s bad angle on Green’s late touchdown etc etc.
One deficiency in MBT’s game is accuracy on his deep throws which drove home how spoiled we’ve been in watching Ray these last few seasons.
Quality receiving depth does not exist with this year’s team as we rely on Green and Edwards way too much and continue to ignore Declan Cross.
2018 is rivaling 2016 for futility and frustration.
As always nice to see some friendly faces from this site at the game (Will, Angelo and Dean).

Yes always good to see fellow forum members at the games. One of the reasons I purchased ST and will do so again next year. Funny how you mention how the Argos were out coached. As I watched our season slip away today , I found myself wondering how June Jones and Jerry Glanville, with little CFL experience, can seem so far ahead of our staff. How Masoli can scramble around and then make ill advised throws for completions astounded me again today.

[R.J]

I don't recall anyone saying there we're 300 tickets left. Unless it's those looking at the Ticketmaster map, which is not accurate.

Still last year vs. Hamilton we drew 13,500 which also included thousands of Ti-Cat fans plus it was the home opener. So 15,700 is an improvement on that front.
I posted a tweet that originally stated 300 then around 150, but they were based off a ticketmaster count. My apologies; I got excited when I saw the numbers and jumped the gun.

[R.J]

We have 7 games left to start unearthing some answers in regards to our quarterbacking future.
Something tells me Prukop will never get a real shot in Toronto; at least not with the coaches we have (Condell maybe being the exception).

[Wobbler]

That’s why you need to enjoy winning a Grey Cup when it happens, you never know when the next opportunity will arise.
Agreed, emphatically! Last year's GC win was crazy/wonderful and the feeling lingers. Admittedly I have little to no skin in this game, but for now, I just need a few hints of progress.

[ArgoZ]

Hurts me to say but maybe they should fold the team for 3-5 years.

Stupid comment man. Won the Cup, struggling this year (history repeating) and who knows what's in store, good or bad for the future. We have some great pieces on this team, but it's looking like an off year due to various circumstances.

[ArgoGabe22]

Losing sucks, as does watching a non-contending team play the rest of their season but suggesting the team folds is a load of rubbish. Imagine if the Cubs just folded. The ups and downs is what makes sports, whether you like it or not.

[Argo57]

Losing sucks, as does watching a non-contending team play the rest of their season but suggesting the team folds is a load of rubbish. Imagine if the Cubs just folded. The ups and downs is what makes sports, whether you like it or not.

True, persevering through the rough times enhances the enjoyment of success.

[R.J]

Fold the team ?
I'm all for firing coaches and stuff like that, but folding the team is a bit too extreme for me. Honestly, if it ever did happen: I don't think the CFL would ever return to Toronto again.

[Argo57]

Fold the team ?
I'm all for firing coaches and stuff like that, but folding the team is a bit too extreme for me. Honestly, if it ever did happen: I don't think the CFL would ever return to Toronto again.

CFL fans across the country often foolishly say the Argos should be relocated or fold either of which would irreparably damage or kill the CFL.
What would an 8 team league with no team in the countries largest city demand in television rights?
Consider the effect on player salaries alone with reduced TV revenues especially with a competitive league starting up with a higher minimum salaries paid in USD$.

[R.J]

CFL fans across the country often foolishly say the Argos should be relocated or fold either of which would irreparably damage or kill the CFL.
What would an 8 team league with no team in the countries largest city demand in television rights?
Consider the effect on player salaries alone with reduced TV revenues especially with a competitive league starting up with a higher minimum salaries paid in USD$.
I think the League would survive in some form, but obviously with less tv and sponsorship money.

I've also never bought into the idea that if the Argos fold the Ticats would soon follow. Argos need the Ticats more than the other way around IMO.

[Argo57]

I think the League would survive in some form, but obviously with less tv and sponsorship money.

I've also never bought into the idea that if the Argos fold - the Ticats would soon follow. Argos need the Ticats more than the other way around IMO.

Would be a league with inferior talent based on salaries that could be paid.

[Antwon]

Stupid comment man. Won the Cup, struggling this year (history repeating) and who knows what's in store, good or bad for the future. We have some great pieces on this team, but it's looking like an off year due to various circumstances.
15,000!!!

[Antwon]

Fold the team ?
I'm all for firing coaches and stuff like that, but folding the team is a bit too extreme for me. Honestly, if it ever did happen: I don't think the CFL would ever return to Toronto again.

I've been cheering for this team since Holloway!!! It seems they cant be good for consecutive years. 1 good for every 6 bad.

[Argo57]

I've been cheering for this team since Holloway!!! It seems they cant be good for consecutive years. 1 good for every 6 bad.

Could be worse, Winnipeg’s last Grey Cup (1990), Hamilton (1999).

[Antwon]

Could be worse, Winnipeg’s last Grey Cup (1990), Hamilton (1999).
Not trying to be a negative Nelly....but they have better fan bases! Without the Grey Cups.

[OV Argo]

Are Trestman and this Archer guy going to continue to trot out the same poor performing players on the D week in, week out ?

[Bill G]

Yes always good to see fellow forum members at the games. One of the reasons I purchased ST and will do so again next year. Funny how you mention how the Argos were out coached. As I watched our season slip away today , I found myself wondering how June Jones and Jerry Glanville, with little CFL experience, can seem so far ahead of our staff. How Masoli can scramble around and then make ill advised throws for completions astounded me again today.

Masoli's non-textbook passes from waaaaay behind the line of scrimmage when he avoided pressure worked today .... making life interesting for his coaches, I'm sure.

[smokeslet'sgo]

Can anyone explain yesterdays announcement that only 300 tickets were still available for today’s game then only 15,000 people show up?

The Argos count tickets scanned as attendance, not tickets sold. The Lakeshore West GO train line was a mess today, it took me over an hour and change to get from Clarkson to Union because the train detoured the Milton line, and from Union another delay into Exhibition. A lot of Ticat fans skipped the trip because of the train issues. So I think there were 18k plus sold, but only 15k actually showed up. It took me another 2 hours to get home.

[Ron]

The 15,702 in attendance was inflated by Hamilton fans. With a boring ineffective offence and a porous defence how low will it go before the end of the season?

Who cares?

[Ron]

I have things to write but don't really feel like putting "pen to paper" right now.

This is the team we expected to see last year.

and unlike all other teams last year this team gave it's fans a championship. So they earned a mulligan IMO.

[Shatto]

A number of observations about today's game:
.Masoli with his mobility bought time for his receivers to get open. His play, particularly his mobility, was one of the chief reasons we lost. Against a mobile QB with a good arm, a team must have an exceptional pass rush --we don't.

.Trestman's misuse and under-use of Carter was a dreadful decision. When Carter replaced Jackson as a kick/punt returner it robbed the team of our most dangerous and effective returner. Not playing Carter as a receiver robbed the team of a dangerous game breaker. I don't know if the team would have won with Carter playing on a regular basis but I do know by not playing Carter, it made winning more difficult.

.The defensive scheme leave a lot to be desired. Who is to blame Trestman or the DC--perhaps both

.Forget the stats on MBT as many of the stats were achieved late in the game, when the game was out of reach. IMO he is not the QB of the future. He is a 30 year old journeyman QB, who is perhaps a competent backup. Whatever one thinks of Franklin, he has greater potential of being the prospect of QB of the future. He should be playing to prove if he can do the job or not. If he can't, then an off-season search for a new QB should begin right away.

.Mathematically the team can still make the playoffs. In reality the season is probably over. It is not only the team's record but the weak performances the team has put up recently that indicates the unlikelihood of the team reaching the playoffs. It is time to start thinking of next year.

On a positive note Darby continues to play well. Cox showed potential as pass rusher. He demonstrated a really quick first couple steps. It is interesting that Cox who hasn't been in camp as long as Carter got good amount of playing time---unlike Carter.

.Noel (forgetting the early drop) had a very good game. Much better than Smith, who continues to see the field in spite of doing nothing for several games.

.With Knox at LB and moving Tuggle back to DE and if Cox continues to impress, maybe we could get a decent pass rush.

.Even if we don't make the playoffs, let's hope the team starts to win some games soon. Losing doesn't help attendance.

[jerrym]

A number of observations about today's game:
.Masoli with his mobility bought time for his receivers to get open. His play, particularly his mobility, was one of the chief reasons we lost. Against a mobile QB with a good arm, a team must have an exceptional pass rush --we don't.

.Trestman's misuse and under-use of Carter was a dreadful decision. When Carter replaced Jackson as a kick/punt returner it robbed the team of our most dangerous and effective returner. Not playing Carter as a receiver robbed the team of a dangerous game breaker. I don't know if the team would have won with Carter playing on a regular basis but I do know by not playing Carter, it made winning more difficult.

.The defensive scheme leave a lot to be desired. Who is to blame Trestman or the DC--perhaps both

.Forget the stats on MBT as many of the stats were achieved late in the game, when the game was out of reach. IMO he is not the QB of the future. He is a 30 year old journeyman QB, who is perhaps a competent backup. Whatever one thinks of Franklin, he has greater potential of being the prospect of QB of the future. He should be playing to prove if he can do the job or not. If he can't, then an off-season search for a new QB should begin right away.

.Mathematically the team can still make the playoffs. In reality the season is probably over. It is not only the team's record but the weak performances the team has put up recently that indicates the unlikelihood of the team reaching the playoffs. It is time to start thinking of next year.

On a positive note Darby continues to play well. Cox showed potential as pass rusher. He demonstrated a really quick first couple steps. It is interesting that Cox who hasn't been in camp as long as Carter got good amount of playing time---unlike Carter.

.Noel (forgetting the early drop) had a very good game. Much better than Smith, who continues to see the field in spite of doing nothing for several games.

.With Knox at LB and moving Tuggle back to DE and if Cox continues to impress, maybe we could get a decent pass rush.

.Even if we don't make the playoffs, let's hope the team starts to win some games soon. Losing doesn't help attendance.

I agree on all points but I don't think much is going to change because Trestman is extremely set in his ways.

[paulwoods13]

.Mathematically the team can still make the playoffs. In reality the season is probably over. It is not only the team's record but the weak performances the team has put up recently that indicates the unlikelihood of the team reaching the playoffs. It is time to start thinking of next year.


It may be time for fans to start thinking of next year, but there is no chance the organization will do so until the playoffs are unattainable. As bad as we look right now, we need only finish with as many wins as Wpg and BC to make the playoffs. With two games remaining against Mtl and one each against Ott, Mtl, Ham and Sask, winning four more (maybe even five) is not out of the question, however improbable it may seem. No organization will ever throw in the towel when there is still a mathematical possibility.

[RB957]

A number of observations about today's game:
.Masoli with his mobility bought time for his receivers to get open. His play, particularly his mobility, was one of the chief reasons we lost. Against a mobile QB with a good arm, a team must have an exceptional pass rush --we don't.

.Trestman's misuse and under-use of Carter was a dreadful decision. When Carter replaced Jackson as a kick/punt returner it robbed the team of our most dangerous and effective returner. Not playing Carter as a receiver robbed the team of a dangerous game breaker. I don't know if the team would have won with Carter playing on a regular basis but I do know by not playing Carter, it made winning more difficult.

.The defensive scheme leave a lot to be desired. Who is to blame Trestman or the DC--perhaps both

.Forget the stats on MBT as many of the stats were achieved late in the game, when the game was out of reach. IMO he is not the QB of the future. He is a 30 year old journeyman QB, who is perhaps a competent backup. Whatever one thinks of Franklin, he has greater potential of being the prospect of QB of the future. He should be playing to prove if he can do the job or not. If he can't, then an off-season search for a new QB should begin right away.

.Mathematically the team can still make the playoffs. In reality the season is probably over. It is not only the team's record but the weak performances the team has put up recently that indicates the unlikelihood of the team reaching the playoffs. It is time to start thinking of next year.

On a positive note Darby continues to play well. Cox showed potential as pass rusher. He demonstrated a really quick first couple steps. It is interesting that Cox who hasn't been in camp as long as Carter got good amount of playing time---unlike Carter.

.Noel (forgetting the early drop) had a very good game. Much better than Smith, who continues to see the field in spite of doing nothing for several games.

.With Knox at LB and moving Tuggle back to DE and if Cox continues to impress, maybe we could get a decent pass rush.

.Even if we don't make the playoffs, let's hope the team starts to win some games soon. Losing doesn't help attendance.

I agree with everything you have written.

MBT is not our future. Franklin was brought in for that reason, so as you say, let him play... and if he can't produce, then we need to find that guy who will.

Post-game comments by Trestman sounded almost ridiculous. He appears obsessed with creating this positive atmosphere in the locker room, seemingly above everything else. What about on the field?

[R.J]

If Franklin isn't the guy (I think he has to talent to be); we do have Dakota Prukop, but he won't get a shot with Trestman in charge.

[Shatto]

It was not my intention to imply the team should "throw in the towel" but rather start thinking and planning for the future. If they believe they have a potential starter on the PR, then start using that player now--some couldn't play worse than some of the players on the field yesterday. Unless Trestman truly thinks MBT is the QB of the future (hard to believe after the past few games), then he should be playing Franklin to find out if Franklin has that potential.

[AngeloV]

I don't know why you mention Woodson specifically. He played 90-95% of the defensive snaps today and seems to have played most of them last week as well. The only time he wasn't on D today was a brief spell in the second quarter when they went with both Jordan and Dowling at LB; for most series, those two guys shared the same position, with Dowling in on passing downs and Jordan on running downs. Woodson played field corner and Roberson boundary; when Woodson was out briefly, they shuffled the secondary around and I don't remember who was at FC. Woodson has acquitted himself well on defence these past two weeks, and he's only in his second season (and missed a lot of his first with an injury). There is no reason to fish or cut bait with him for at least two more years, IMO..

I didn't get that comment either. Woodson has been the starting boundary corner as you say the last 2 games and has looked good. I watched him closely a couple of times and he blanketed Tolliver.

[R.J]

It was not my intention to imply the team should "throw in the towel" but rather start thinking and planning for the future. If they believe they have a potential starter on the PR, then start using that player now--some couldn't play worse than some of the players on the field yesterday. Unless Trestman truly thinks MBT is the QB of the future (hard to believe after the past few games), then he should be playing Franklin to find out if Franklin has that potential.
I don't see Trestman sitting his boy anytime soon.

[AngeloV]

I'm devastated every time the Argos lose and especially to "them". But as I mentioned to gilthethrill yesterday, I will just now have to enjoy each game on a game by game basis. I enjoy each and every Argos game and that will never change. I take losses hard and feel on top of the world when they win, but I will never stop going to their games.

Also great to see Argo57 and Will yesterday again. Along with gilthethrill, great guys.

[Al&Kat]

[ I take losses hard and feel on top of the world when they win, but I will never stop going to their games.
.[/QUOTE]

Angelo your sentence above expresses my feelings precisely. I too will never stop going to the games because
Win or Lose, I love Cdn. football, and it's always fun, even into my STH year #25.
for example, today at the Shipyard, got to chat with Dave Cranmer from the great 1971 Argos team, AND
with Bob Nicholson, a key piece of the 96-97 Doug Flutie teams. Bob looks great, he now is working in
the field of education.
Yes the Argos 2018 team won't make the playoffs, either the Peg or the Lions will cross-over, and I think it
will take actually sinking that low before our Mgmt. will open their minds up to the kinds of changes that
are needed.
As I write this, I'm watching the Bills get embarrassed, so remember Argo-fans, it could be worse.

[Argo57]

It was not my intention to imply the team should "throw in the towel" but rather start thinking and planning for the future. If they believe they have a potential starter on the PR, then start using that player now--some couldn't play worse than some of the players on the field yesterday. Unless Trestman truly thinks MBT is the QB of the future (hard to believe after the past few games), then he should be playing Franklin to find out if Franklin has that potential.


Although I think they are already out of the playoff picture leave the status quo for the Rider game however if they lose that one then you have 6 games remaining to see what talent you have in the organization.

[jerrym]

Hurts me to say but maybe they should fold the team for 3-5 years.
You want to fold the team one half season after winning the Grey Cup! I suffered through the horror years of the 60s and 70s with a team often in last place and no Grey Cup until 1983. NUTS to your idea! What else would I have to bitch about if not for the Argos! :hi:

[jerrym]

I'd like to see the team fish or cut bait with guys like Woodson. If he is not a future starter, then this team needs to find some Canadian Backfield guys who have that potential. I'd say the future ratio balance would be greatly improved by this possibility. LT is another potential ratio changer, but Ryan Hunter won't be around for a while now. I'd like to see Woodson get some starts. Especially if they lose again to the Ticats.

IMO the Argos should keep Woodson, he's been playing a lot recently and doing fairly well. As a young National, he has the potential to be around a long time.

[doubleblue]

Shatto covered things pretty good IMO about this last game. It has been a disappointing year for sure starting with Ricky going down early. But I don't know if it would have made a lot of difference. Maybe another win or two, but this defense has been a big disappointment. Injuries, age and rookies plus players just not good enough has combined for a mediocre defense. Good QB's are very hard to find and then develop, but good defensive players can be found with good scouting. Calgary replaces their players and never miss a beat. This defense needs upgrades at all the DLine positions except Laing and maybe Wynn in a rotation spot IMO. I'm sorry to say fan favourites like Woods and Ball look to have lost a step at LB, and they will both be 32 next season. More pressure from the front seven would make the DB's look a lot better. Young guys like Roberson and Washington have come along quite well with Darby back there. They have to build around Gabriel and Woodson back there for the ratio and because they're pretty good players. But you're always looking for a shutdown corner. Not a lot is going to change on offense. Same QB's and a few new guys here and there. So improved play from MBT and Franklin on offense and a much better defense has to be the hope for next season. IMO

[cfl-cis fan]

Shatto covered things pretty good IMO about this last game. It has been a disappointing year for sure starting with Ricky going down early. But I don't know if it would have made a lot of difference. Maybe another win or two, but this defense has been a big disappointment. Injuries, age and rookies plus players just not good enough has combined for a mediocre defense. Good QB's are very hard to find and then develop, but good defensive players can be found with good scouting. Calgary replaces their players and never miss a beat. This defense needs upgrades at all the DLine positions except Laing and maybe Wynn in a rotation spot IMO. I'm sorry to say fan favourites like Woods and Ball look to have lost a step at LB, and they will both be 32 next season. More pressure from the front seven would make the DB's look a lot better. Young guys like Roberson and Washington have come along quite well with Darby back there. They have to build around Gabriel and Woodson back there for the ratio and because they're pretty good players. But you're always looking for a shutdown corner. Not a lot is going to change on offense. Same QB's and a few new guys here and there. So improved play from MBT and Franklin on offense and a much better defense has to be the hope for next season. IMO

2 more wins ............ that would be 2nd place maybe! I would take that

[RB957]

2 more wins ............ that would be 2nd place maybe! I would take that

As crazy as it sounds, if it wasn't good enough for 2nd, it might be enough to prevent the cross-over. If teams keep beating up each other each week, and it's not the same teams always giving the beating or taking the beating, then a losing record doesn't preclude a playoff spot..... But I believe it's wishful thinking that the Argos make the playoffs this year.

[ArgoRavi]

Shatto covered things pretty good IMO about this last game. It has been a disappointing year for sure starting with Ricky going down early. But I don't know if it would have made a lot of difference. Maybe another win or two, but this defense has been a big disappointment. Injuries, age and rookies plus players just not good enough has combined for a mediocre defense. Good QB's are very hard to find and then develop, but good defensive players can be found with good scouting. Calgary replaces their players and never miss a beat. This defense needs upgrades at all the DLine positions except Laing and maybe Wynn in a rotation spot IMO. I'm sorry to say fan favourites like Woods and Ball look to have lost a step at LB, and they will both be 32 next season. More pressure from the front seven would make the DB's look a lot better. Young guys like Roberson and Washington have come along quite well with Darby back there. They have to build around Gabriel and Woodson back there for the ratio and because they're pretty good players. But you're always looking for a shutdown corner. Not a lot is going to change on offense. Same QB's and a few new guys here and there. So improved play from MBT and Franklin on offense and a much better defense has to be the hope for next season. IMO

I tend to agree with a lot of this. I don't think that the personnel in the secondary is bad at all but they can't cover all day which is what they have been forced to do with the lack of pressure up front. Carter and hopefully the return of Coombs and the addition of McCluster should be a big boost to the offence. The offensive line is solid now too. The biggest issues are on defence and, in particular, getting pressure up front. If they were getting the kind of pressure that they did a year ago, they would likely have at least 3 more wins right now.

[Jon Gonzo]

IMO the Argos should keep Woodson, he's been playing a lot recently and doing fairly well. As a young National, he has the potential to be around a long time.

I totally agree, what I was really getting at was that it is time to start another Canadian in the backfield, and he's the guy they need to develop as that next starter. I think it was a good season for his development, and the roster flexibility would be huge if Woodson can start next year.